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Otis fad diet thread — yoga, fasting, and kevzilla walking on🚶‍♂️ (13 Viewers)

I think the universe is out to kill me. Another health issue combined with a draconian trial schedule has obliterated my best laid plans. And while I am strong enough to overcome these issues, the wife has a health issue that is making this all impossible. 

Good news is we should both come out fine. Bad news is I have no chance of coming close to be in the running for this, if I ever was. 

 
Yankee23Fan said:
I think the universe is out to kill me. Another health issue combined with a draconian trial schedule has obliterated my best laid plans. And while I am strong enough to overcome these issues, the wife has a health issue that is making this all impossible. 

Good news is we should both come out fine. Bad news is I have no chance of coming close to be in the running for this, if I ever was. 
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These posts confuse me. If I get in a work jam my response isn't to gain I almost always lose weight because I lose the time to eat and drink and lift.  I don't start eating #### because I'm stressed i just simply will try to at least meet psmf macro levels and hope I don't drop too much gains. 

 
culdeus said:
These posts confuse me. If I get in a work jam my response isn't to gain I almost always lose weight because I lose the time to eat and drink and lift.  I don't start eating #### because I'm stressed i just simply will try to at least meet psmf macro levels and hope I don't drop too much gains. 
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Eating junk food when stressed is a common issue for people that struggle with their weight.

 
My personal belief is that all sweeteners should be avoided as much as possible, even those that are no calories.  Admittedly it isn't a belief based on rigorous scientific analysis.

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
My personal belief is that all sweeteners should be avoided as much as possible, even those that are no calories.  Admittedly it isn't a belief based on rigorous scientific analysis.
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Horrible stuff. Black flag item.  There's enough science out there that's in the good enough category for me to black flag it. 

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
My personal belief is that all sweeteners should be avoided as much as possible, even those that are no calories.  Admittedly it isn't a belief based on rigorous scientific analysis.
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There are some newer studies that show that artificial sweeteners trigger an insulin response and may effect other hormones that have some bearing on weight regulation.  Maurile's boy Stephen Guyenet recommends avoiding artificial sweeteners as a way to reduce food reward, which he believes affects the body's regulation of its set point.

--- Anything I say in this thread should be taken with a grain of salt, though because I'm fatter than ever and going back to a weight loss doctor. 

 
Been on track this week.  Oatmeal and fruit for breakfast, Lunch most days, salad, veggies etc and some hard boiled eggs.  Protein and veggies for dinner with some potatoes.

Volunteering all day at the food pantry tomorrow 8-5.  Will be on my feet and moving all day which is not normal so hopefully will burn a few more calories.  Hoping for 2 lbs this week. May start another round of potatoes only for 5-7 days next week to see how that goes.  Great progress by a lot of you guys in here.  Total weight lost is now 417 lbs., which is really impressive.  23 people logged in their weight this week out of 38 total participants when we started, for 8 weeks that's pretty good.

Keep it up fellas!

 
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culdeus said:
These posts confuse me. If I get in a work jam my response isn't to gain I almost always lose weight because I lose the time to eat and drink and lift.  I don't start eating #### because I'm stressed i just simply will try to at least meet psmf macro levels and hope I don't drop too much gains. 
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LOOK AT ME I'M NOT A STRESS EATER!!!1!!

 
Camping tonight - sitting around the campfire - plan on having a couple of dogs but usual plan is smores and copious amounts of alcohol.

:help:  

 
AAABatteries said:
It's one of life's simple pleasures but sitting around a campfire drinking is one of my favorite things to do.  
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And grilling your Weiner....If you know what I mean

 
AAABatteries said:
It's one of life's simple pleasures but sitting around a campfire drinking is one of my favorite things to do.  
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What self respecting male human being doesn't like that?

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
The trick to making it easier to keep weight off in the long term is to adjust your bodyweight set-point, which would otherwise defend against fat loss by ramping up appetite. I'm only a few chapters into the Guyenet book and he hasn't touched on this yet, but I expect that he'll spend a fair number of words on it given that it's an area of his own research.
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He touches on it here while discussing a recent study by Kevin Hall:

There are several interesting implications of this study.  The first is that the data support our current understanding of how body weight is regulated.  Even when energy balance was perturbed without the participants’ knowledge, a powerful starvation response occurred that favored the regain of lost weight.  The data support the concept that a sort of body weight “set point” is defended against changes, particularly changes in the downward direction.

A second implication is that between the two arms of the starvation response– the increased drive to eat and the decreased calorie expenditure– the former is by far the more influential.  In other words, the primary way in which the brain opposes weight loss is by increasing the biological drive to eat.  The data also give us a quantitative estimate of this drive: for each 2.2 lbs (1 kg) of weight lost, the drive to eat increases by about 100 Calories per day.  This is even stronger than I would have predicted.

A third implication – which I think is the most novel of the study – relates to the dynamics of the heightened drive to eat that people experience when they diet, and how this undermines weight loss efforts.  After a person loses weight, the biological drive to eat can be so high that they have to exert considerable effort just to prevent themselves from overeating substantially.  Even though it seems like they’re no longer adhering to their reduced calorie regimen, they may still be trying hard to eat fewer calories – and succeeding, relative to the amount their brain “wants” them to eat.

The amount of effort that people put into a diet does slowly decline over time however, and as this effort recedes, the biological drive to eat takes over and weight comes back.  It’s hard to fight the starvation response forever.

This study strengthens my conviction that the brain’s starvation response has to be managed for long-term weight loss success – and particularly its impact on the drive to eat.  Rather than pretending like the starvation response doesn’t exist, as most weight loss approaches do, a better method may be to try to dampen appetite and/or passive calorie intake sufficiently to counterbalance the heightened drive to eat.  In other words, find ways to keep the brain happy at a lower calorie intake rather than using willpower to continually struggle against the biological drive to eat.
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 In other words, find ways to keep the brain happy at a lower calorie intake rather than using willpower to continually struggle against the biological drive to eat.
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But what mechanism does he propose? This sounds like a Tryptophan -->Serotonin angle.

 
From the American Cancer Society

In the body, aspartame is broken down into phenylalanine, aspartic acid, and methanol. Methanol can be toxic in high amounts, but the amounts that result from the breakdown of aspartame is lower than with many “natural” foods. For example, drinking a liter of diet soda would lead to consumption of 55 milligrams (mg) of methanol, as compared to as much as 680 mg of methanol from a liter of fruit juice.

Phenylalanine and aspartic acid are amino acids and are naturally present in many foods that contain protein.
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Curious to see the current negative science.

 
It was Guyenet who also posted about a study comparing those who had lost large amounts of weight to those who had always maintained healthy weights. Those who had always been lean could eat more calories without gaining weight than those who had lost lots of weight. Really not fair but it's why I consider myself a life long dieter.

 
Chaos Commish said:
From the American Cancer Society

Curious to see the current negative science.
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That's from a cancer perspective.  We aren't discussing cancer here.  

While the studies aren't quite there, I think there's enough smoke/fire here to be concerned and I think there is a mechanism that explains it.

The below catabolism is the one that is the most concerning and is the focus of research on metabolic diseases.  In general, the amino acids found in diet coke are not the ones you want to eat.  They are EFAA or basically, the dog #### AA types that are better made, not ingested, but yes they exist in nature just not all that often together.  More and more it seems like the combination of ingested AA is important. 

http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v62/n4/full/1602866a.html

Dopamine, a catecholamine, is formed from DOPA by an aromatic amino acid decarboxylase. Tyrosine hydroxylase activity is inhibited by high concentrations of dopamine through its influence on the THB co-factor (negative feedback, Figure 2d). This system is very necessary to prevent large amount of dopamine being produced, as dopamine is an inhibitory neurotransmitter. However, if phenylalanine, as the main part of aspartame, competes with tyrosine for NAAT, a compromised dopamine production will result because phenylalanine will bind more frequently and freely than tyrosine owing to its higher concentration, and thus lead to lower concentrations of dopamine in the brain. After administration of aspartame to humans, the increases in blood levels of both phenylalanine and tyrosine have been well documented (Fernstorm, 1988; Filer and Stegink, 1988). Therefore, phenylalanine (formed by breakdown of aspartame) will increase in the brain owing to the ingestion of aspartame, and tyrosine will increase as a breakdown by-product of phenylalanine in the liver (Fernstorm, 1988; Filer and Stegink, 1988). Thus, aspartame and its components could potentially disrupt a wide range of processes in the body, including amino acid metabolism, protein structure and metabolism, nucleic acid integrity, neuronal function and endocrine balances.

Tyrosine activity is one of the central research subjects for long term body fatness.  My guess, and this isn't backed by research yet, is that diet coke gets in the way of hunger and metabolism resulting in your body being tricked and when the sensation is gone, you are now left with even more hunger and perhaps seratonin resistance than would be otherwise expeted.  

 
aspartame and it's ilk fall into the common sense category for me.

hypothetical question:  would you rather have a synthetic ribeye made up of a bunch of chemicals you can't pronounce, let alone know what they do your body?  or a real ribeye, from a cow?

give me real anything over artificial every time.

i've always said, it's better for you to have a beer than a soda.  soda is full of ####, coloring, sweeteners, etc. :banned:  

 
culdeus said:
These posts confuse me. If I get in a work jam my response isn't to gain I almost always lose weight because I lose the time to eat and drink and lift.  I don't start eating #### because I'm stressed i just simply will try to at least meet psmf macro levels and hope I don't drop too much gains. 
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People are different. You seem like you struggle to put weight on- that doesn't confuse me, but it annoys the crap out of me. My brother was like that. Skinny, lanky dude, Hummingbird metabolism, and never cared about eating. Had to force himself to eat, like it was punishment, or a job. ****.

See, but here's something that used to annoy him, and will probably annoy you, too: I can put on lean gains, no problem, if I'm disciplined. I used to lift (not really serious lifting, bro) when I was in High School and in my early 20s in the Army. For me, it was easy to keep going up in weights and to get swole . My body is just that way. Or used to be, I guess.

Stress makes me want to eat. It's a comfort thing, like medication. Dopamine releases, feels good for a minute. Doesn't feel good long term, but that's typical addict stuff. Plus, cortisol messes with your leptin and grehlin levels, so you never feel full, and predisposes you to putting on belly weight.

Now the point of that, for me, is to take the knowledge of that objective understanding and turn it into useable, real-world behavioral change. But, that's the hard part.

 
ragincajun said:
So I am doing one cheat meal a week.  About to tear into some pizza and garlic knots.
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One cheat meal can derail a whole week if you're not careful.

If you're at a 500 calorie deficit for 6 days...that's 3000 calories under. I can easily eat 1 large pizza (2000+ calories), so I'm sure that's no problem for you fatties. Then add in bread sticks that's easily near 3k.  If you eat "normal" for your other 2 meals ...then your cheat meal just destroyed your weeks worth of dieting. 

In short....enjoy the cheat meal (they are necessary for mental health), but be mindful of your portions. 

 
Charlie Harper said:
One cheat meal can derail a whole week if you're not careful.

If you're at a 500 calorie deficit for 6 days...that's 3000 calories under. I can easily eat 1 large pizza (2000+ calories), so I'm sure that's no problem for you fatties. Then add in bread sticks that's easily near 3k.  If you eat "normal" for your other 2 meals ...then your cheat meal just destroyed your weeks worth of dieting. 

In short....enjoy the cheat meal (they are necessary for mental health), but be mindful of your portions. 
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That's why you have to go for much bigger deficits during the week.  Then you can go bananas on the weekend and still lose weight.  WIN WIN

 
Nice 2010 bottle of Margaux cracked after a couple of beers earlier.  70 degrees in NY in February.  Gotta celebrate that.  

 
culdeus said:
But what mechanism does he propose? This sounds like a Tryptophan -->Serotonin angle.
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I think he thinks it's mostly a leptin mechanism, from what I've read.  Guyenet proposes mostly bland Whole Foods.  Adequate protein. No refined carbs (rice and potatoes are OK).  No added fat or salt in cooking. 

 
culdeus said:
But what mechanism does he propose? This sounds like a Tryptophan -->Serotonin angle.
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I doubt he proposes a single mechanism. He's always talking about how multi-factorial and complicated things are. Appetite is regulated largely by the brain -- mostly by the hypothalamus -- which involves multiple neurons. (Not to mention hormones, etc.)

I don't know how long it will take me to read through the book. (I've got like six other books going at the same time, and of course reading about Trump on the Internet is a prominent distraction as well.) I'd recommend that anyone interested in the topic go ahead and read ahead of me. (There's also a podcast here that I haven't listened to yet.)

 
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DA RAIDERS said:
aspartame and it's ilk fall into the common sense category for me.

hypothetical question:  would you rather have a synthetic ribeye made up of a bunch of chemicals you can't pronounce, let alone know what they do your body?  or a real ribeye, from a cow?

give me real anything over artificial every time.

i've always said, it's better for you to have a beer than a soda.  soda is full of ####, coloring, sweeteners, etc. :banned:  
Click to expand...
Depends.  Is the real ribeye, from a cow, invoking a detrimental insulin response?  Apples and oranges IMO (no pun intended).  There are plenty of "real" foods you can eat that are just as bad for you (or worse) than many "artificial" foods.

 
I've started using a free app called "Lose it" to track my eating. I've found it's really helping me. Down 3 pounds in 2 weeks.

Basically I know how to eat healthy and to lose weight, but if I don't track my eating my portion sizes ended up being too big, and I cheat. It may not work for everyone but for me if I write down everything I eat it then I don't cheat and I drop weight; simple as that.

Hopefully I'll keep this up and won't get lazy about it.

 
timschochet said:
I've started using a free app called "Lose it" to track my eating. I've found it's really helping me. Down 3 pounds in 2 weeks.

Basically I know how to eat healthy and to lose weight, but if I don't track my eating my portion sizes ended up being too big, and I cheat. It may not work for everyone but for me if I write down everything I eat it then I don't cheat and I drop weight; simple as that.

Hopefully I'll keep this up and won't get lazy about it.
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A number of us use myfitnesspal

 
timschochet said:
I've started using a free app called "Lose it" to track my eating. I've found it's really helping me. Down 3 pounds in 2 weeks.

Basically I know how to eat healthy and to lose weight, but if I don't track my eating my portion sizes ended up being too big, and I cheat. It may not work for everyone but for me if I write down everything I eat it then I don't cheat and I drop weight; simple as that.

Hopefully I'll keep this up and won't get lazy about it.
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None of this makes any sense.

You need to over do it and go all spud, all rice or all meat. This rational stuff won't fly in here.:lol:

 
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