OUch for Vernon Davis owners (1 Viewer)

[CalBear]

Couldn't have said it better.... Coachspeak in full force. I am in agreement that I think Davis is one of SF's best weapons, and I believe Martz has the intelligence to know that or he wouldn't still be an offensive coach. This article tells me nothing.

Do you think that Mike Furrey and Shaun McDonald were Detroit's best offensive weapons? I don't think either of them is in the top 3.

 

[blackjack23]

Hines Ward has always been one of the best blocking WRs, and he had always been a stud Fantasy WR as well.

I wouldn't be discouraged by this news.

Who knows, could be decoy anyway......

Gore will get the short dump offs, so don't expect that from VD anyway. He'll earn his keep when he's downfield, catching balls, then running over people to hit the endzone.......

Hines Ward only blocked on running plays. He never stayed in to block on passing plays like a TE would.

I'm not seeing where Martz said Davis was going to be staying in to block on pass plays. Could you highlight that part for me? I see where he says he's a good run blocker though.

Why would Mike Martz go out of his way to say Vernon Davis is going to stay in to run block? Does that make any sense to you?

 

[Saint]

Couldn't have said it better.... Coachspeak in full force. I am in agreement that I think Davis is one of SF's best weapons, and I believe Martz has the intelligence to know that or he wouldn't still be an offensive coach. This article tells me nothing.

Do you think that Mike Furrey and Shaun McDonald were Detroit's best offensive weapons? I don't think either of them is in the top 3.

Ummm... What's your point?

 

[Gr00vus]

Hines Ward has always been one of the best blocking WRs, and he had always been a stud Fantasy WR as well.

I wouldn't be discouraged by this news.

Who knows, could be decoy anyway......

Gore will get the short dump offs, so don't expect that from VD anyway. He'll earn his keep when he's downfield, catching balls, then running over people to hit the endzone.......

Hines Ward only blocked on running plays. He never stayed in to block on passing plays like a TE would.

I'm not seeing where Martz said Davis was going to be staying in to block on pass plays. Could you highlight that part for me? I see where he says he's a good run blocker though.

Why would Mike Martz go out of his way to say Vernon Davis is going to stay in to run block? Does that make any sense to you?

Why indeed:

He's a very, very substantial blocker, which really allows us to a lot of good things in the running game.

What do you suppose he's talking about here? Sounds like run blocking to me.

 

[CalBear]

Couldn't have said it better.... Coachspeak in full force. I am in agreement that I think Davis is one of SF's best weapons, and I believe Martz has the intelligence to know that or he wouldn't still be an offensive coach. This article tells me nothing.

Do you think that Mike Furrey and Shaun McDonald were Detroit's best offensive weapons? I don't think either of them is in the top 3.

Ummm... What's your point?

My point is that even if you think Davis is the Niners' best offensive weapon (which he's clearly not--he's not even been shown to be among their best receivers) there's no reason to believe that Martz will use him. Martz' behavior in Detroit was to give huge number of targets to marginal backups instead of relying on Roy Williams, Calvin Johnson, and Kevin Jones, who any outside observer would identify as the three most physically talented players on the offense.

 

[blackjack23]

Hines Ward has always been one of the best blocking WRs, and he had always been a stud Fantasy WR as well.

I wouldn't be discouraged by this news.

Who knows, could be decoy anyway......

Gore will get the short dump offs, so don't expect that from VD anyway. He'll earn his keep when he's downfield, catching balls, then running over people to hit the endzone.......

Hines Ward only blocked on running plays. He never stayed in to block on passing plays like a TE would.

I'm not seeing where Martz said Davis was going to be staying in to block on pass plays. Could you highlight that part for me? I see where he says he's a good run blocker though.

Why would Mike Martz go out of his way to say Vernon Davis is going to stay in to run block? Does that make any sense to you?

Why indeed:

He's a very, very substantial blocker, which really allows us to a lot of good things in the running game.

What do you suppose he's talking about here? Sounds like run blocking to me.

You cant be this clueless. Do you expect Vernon Davis to run routes while the 49ers run the ball? Hes saying hes not gonna get as many receptions this year because hes such a good blocker. Whether he stays in to run block (which he would do 100% of all running plays) is irrelevant to his discussion.

 

[Gr00vus]

You cant be this clueless.

Sure I can. Thank you for being so patient with me though.

Do you expect Vernon Davis to run routes while the 49ers run the ball?

Where did I say this?

Hes saying hes not gonna get as many receptions this year because hes such a good blocker.

He is? Where exactly? The only mention of blocking I find is the one I quoted relating to what they expect Davis to do in the run game. No quote about him blocking more when they're passing or getting less receptions because he's blocking. Please elaborate how you've drawn your conclusion. I find it puzzling - but then, I'm clueless.In fact I don't see anywhere that Martz is putting a limit on his receptions - he says he'll be more involved, which I'd think would mean more receptions, but then he says the numbers may or may not be there. I see where he expects big plays from Vernon, that he'll get the ball downfield and on shallow routes. But a marked absence of any notion that he'll get less receptions because he's blocking on pass plays.Do you have telepathy or something? Maybe that's how you know what Martz really meant?

Whether he stays in to run block (which he would do 100% of all running plays) is irrelevant to his discussion.

I agree, so why did you bring it up in the first place?

(blackjack23 @ Aug 28 2008, 11:25 AM) *lol.gif Hines Ward only blocked on running plays. He never stayed in to block on passing plays like a TE would.

 

[Saint]

Ummm... What's your point?

My point is that even if you think Davis is the Niners' best offensive weapon (which he's clearly not--he's not even been shown to be among their best receivers) there's no reason to believe that Martz will use him. Martz' behavior in Detroit was to give huge number of targets to marginal backups instead of relying on Roy Williams, Calvin Johnson, and Kevin Jones, who any outside observer would identify as the three most physically talented players on the offense.

Looking at the stats from last year:Receiving Statistics Player Rec Yds Yds/Rec Long TD Shaun McDonald 79 943 11.9 49 6 Roy Williams 64 838 13.1 91 5 Mike Furrey 61 664 10.9 49 1 Calvin Johnson 48 756 15.8 49 4 Kevin Jones 32 197 6.2 16 0 Looking at games played:* Jones played in 13 games, but only started 10 games due to poor play or injury, and as I recall he was injured most of last year and is still recovering from that injury this year.* Johnson played in 15 games, but only started 10 games as he was learning the offense. As a matter of fact, the first several games he was in, he was almost a non-factor.* Williams played in 12 games and started each of those games.* Both Furrey and MacDonald played in all 16 games.So your premise is that Williams and Johnson (rookie) were not used enough due to the fact that other receivers had higher numbers, however both of those receivers AND Jones did not play every game in the year. If you were to project the numbers for Williams IF HE PLAYED ALL SEASON, he was on target for 85.3 receptions or 1,117 yards, which would clearly have made him the #1. My thoughts are that Martz used his weapons where he had them, and he had to get CJ used to the offense as Martz runs a complex offense and he was a rookie. Not every rookie is a Boldin.So again, I think Martz uses the talents around him when they are available.

 

[Gr00vus]

Ummm... What's your point?

My point is that even if you think Davis is the Niners' best offensive weapon (which he's clearly not--he's not even been shown to be among their best receivers) there's no reason to believe that Martz will use him. Martz' behavior in Detroit was to give huge number of targets to marginal backups instead of relying on Roy Williams, Calvin Johnson, and Kevin Jones, who any outside observer would identify as the three most physically talented players on the offense.

Looking at the stats from last year:Receiving Statistics Player Rec Yds Yds/Rec Long TD Shaun McDonald 79 943 11.9 49 6 Roy Williams 64 838 13.1 91 5 Mike Furrey 61 664 10.9 49 1 Calvin Johnson 48 756 15.8 49 4 Kevin Jones 32 197 6.2 16 0 Looking at games played:* Jones played in 13 games, but only started 10 games due to poor play or injury, and as I recall he was injured most of last year and is still recovering from that injury this year.* Johnson played in 15 games, but only started 10 games as he was learning the offense. As a matter of fact, the first several games he was in, he was almost a non-factor.* Williams played in 12 games and started each of those games.* Both Furrey and MacDonald played in all 16 games.So your premise is that Williams and Johnson (rookie) were not used enough due to the fact that other receivers had higher numbers, however both of those receivers AND Jones did not play every game in the year. If you were to project the numbers for Williams IF HE PLAYED ALL SEASON, he was on target for 85.3 receptions or 1,117 yards, which would clearly have made him the #1. My thoughts are that Martz used his weapons where he had them, and he had to get CJ used to the offense as Martz runs a complex offense and he was a rookie. Not every rookie is a Boldin.So again, I think Martz uses the talents around him when they are available.

Actually, what it highlights is that IF Davis is used as one of the 4 main receiving options in the Martz offense his floor is something like what Furrey or Johnson did. It sounds like Davis is going to be one of those 4 main options. Now it's a question of how you value that.

 

[AnonymousBob]

Couldn't have said it better.... Coachspeak in full force. I am in agreement that I think Davis is one of SF's best weapons, and I believe Martz has the intelligence to know that or he wouldn't still be an offensive coach. This article tells me nothing.

Do you think that Mike Furrey and Shaun McDonald were Detroit's best offensive weapons? I don't think either of them is in the top 3.

Ummm... What's your point?

My point is that even if you think Davis is the Niners' best offensive weapon (which he's clearly not--he's not even been shown to be among their best receivers) there's no reason to believe that Martz will use him. Martz' behavior in Detroit was to give huge number of targets to marginal backups instead of relying on Roy Williams, Calvin Johnson, and Kevin Jones, who any outside observer would identify as the three most physically talented players on the offense.

Furrey and McDonald weren't his best players but they may have presented the best mis-match for opposing defenses. Vernon Davis presents a great mis-match against linebackers.

 

[J R]

Ummm... What's your point?

My point is that even if you think Davis is the Niners' best offensive weapon (which he's clearly not--he's not even been shown to be among their best receivers) there's no reason to believe that Martz will use him. Martz' behavior in Detroit was to give huge number of targets to marginal backups instead of relying on Roy Williams, Calvin Johnson, and Kevin Jones, who any outside observer would identify as the three most physically talented players on the offense.

Looking at the stats from last year:Receiving Statistics

Player Rec Yds Yds/Rec Long TD

Shaun McDonald 79 943 11.9 49 6

Roy Williams 64 838 13.1 91 5

Mike Furrey 61 664 10.9 49 1

Calvin Johnson 48 756 15.8 49 4

Kevin Jones 32 197 6.2 16 0

Looking at games played:

* Jones played in 13 games, but only started 10 games due to poor play or injury, and as I recall he was injured most of last year and is still recovering from that injury this year.

* Johnson played in 15 games, but only started 10 games as he was learning the offense. As a matter of fact, the first several games he was in, he was almost a non-factor.

* Williams played in 12 games and started each of those games.

* Both Furrey and MacDonald played in all 16 games.

Not to mention Calvin Johnson was hurt most of last year. I'm sure there's at least one thread from last season bashing Martz for trying to get Johnson to play even though he was hurt, just as here he's getting bashed for not using him enough. The guy's a lightning rod.

Underneath the hyperbole, calbear has a point though. Like a lot of coordinator gurus, Martz is going to play his system, and he sure isn't going to heavily revise it for a guy who can't catch.

 

[Saint]

Actually, what it highlights is that IF Davis is used as one of the 4 main receiving options in the Martz offense his floor is something like what Furrey or Johnson did. It sounds like Davis is going to be one of those 4 main options. Now it's a question of how you value that.

That's a great point gr00vus. If we're projecting at 700/6 with a late round pick, then we may be on target.

 

[T Bell]

So much for Martz "swooning" over Davis, eh?

The fundamental cause for concern - even more so than Alex Smith under center - is that the one person who Mike Martz swoons the most for is and always has been Mike Martz. He's gotten this far without using the TE, and I won't believe that he can adapt his offense to accommodate a TE until I see him do it, which would be the first time that he's adapted anything he's done.

 

[BigRed]

Wow Martz not using his TE... shocking.

Take a look at the personnel he's had and get back to us.I believe what coaches say in the pre-season almost as much as I believe they just found a real bigfoot carcass.

 

[blackjack23]

I agree, so why did you bring it up in the first place?

(blackjack23 @ Aug 28 2008, 11:25 AM) *lol.gif Hines Ward only blocked on running plays. He never stayed in to block on passing plays like a TE would.

I didnt bring up his run blocking. The other poster mentioned Hines Ward and I said Ward only blocked on running plays. In other words bringing up Hines Ward still being a stud was irrelevant to this conversation.

 

[Gr00vus]

Actually, what it highlights is that IF Davis is used as one of the 4 main receiving options in the Martz offense his floor is something like what Furrey or Johnson did. It sounds like Davis is going to be one of those 4 main options. Now it's a question of how you value that.

That's a great point gr00vus. If we're projecting at 700/6 with a late round pick, then we may be on target.

I've been a bit more conservative at around 600/5 with around 50 catches. I'm more than happy with that from my TE that I'm taking after 8 or so are already off the board. Then there's the possibility of him reaching some of his hyped up personal potential combined with running in a Martz offense - that raises him a bit above the 6 or so other guys I have pooled around those projections.

 

[Gr00vus]

So much for Martz "swooning" over Davis, eh?

The fundamental cause for concern - even more so than Alex Smith under center - is that the one person who Mike Martz swoons the most for is and always has been Mike Martz. He's gotten this far without using the TE, and I won't believe that he can adapt his offense to accommodate a TE until I see him do it, which would be the first time that he's adapted anything he's done.

He's not adapting his offense to the TE. He's adapting the TE to the offense. So far he's done exactly what he said he was going to do with Davis - have him run regular receiver routes in the regular Martz offense. Davis has responded well so far as I can tell this preseason.

 

[Saint]

Underneath the hyperbole, calbear has a point though. Like a lot of coordinator gurus, Martz is going to play his system, and he sure isn't going to heavily revise it for a guy who can't catch.

I agree J R. I guess the difference is I believe Vernon has the ability to catch and can do more than run-block or pass-block downfield. I fully expect Martz to use him to create mismatches the way Furrey presented underneath. In addition, I see him as a great redzone target. I think the fundamental Martz principal is pass, and if you can catch, that has to upgrade you a notch for being in the offensive schema.Now granted, if Davis is dropping passes early on in the season, then calbear is spot on. He's a blocker and nothing more. I just don't see that happening, but I may restate my position after two weeks of seeing him in action.

 

[T Bell]

So much for Martz "swooning" over Davis, eh?

The fundamental cause for concern - even more so than Alex Smith under center - is that the one person who Mike Martz swoons the most for is and always has been Mike Martz. He's gotten this far without using the TE, and I won't believe that he can adapt his offense to accommodate a TE until I see him do it, which would be the first time that he's adapted anything he's done.

He's not adapting his offense to the TE. He's adapting the TE to the offense. So far he's done exactly what he said he was going to do with Davis - have him run regular receiver routes in the regular Martz offense. Davis has responded well so far as I can tell this preseason.

Given that his offense doesn't much use the TE, isn't that the very problem that I was pointing out?Regardless, I've never thought it was a particular compliment to say about a coach that he wouldn't adapt his system to his players. This isn't much of a defense of Martz, nor is it much of an endorsement of Davis' fantasy prospects.

 

[Bojang0301]

Only when I hear Mike Martz say or use Vernon Davis in the slot is when he will hold any value in the 9ers O.

 

[FavreCo]

Shouldn't be a huge shock. He's never really used the TE a lot in his offenses of the past...

Yet the over-rated idiot continues ride his lucky stint with 3 HOF players and to pimp his out of date offensive model. This should be the end of Martz.As a Gore owner, I applaud Martz keeping Davis around to block. However it is probably because you need an extra 10 seconds in Martz system to complete a pass....not run the ball with Gore.

I don't mean to hijack the thread but you're not calling Warner a Hall of Fame QB are you?

Bruce, Holt Faulk...obviously.

 

[FavreCo]

Shouldn't be a huge shock. He's never really used the TE a lot in his offenses of the past...

Yet the over-rated idiot continues ride his lucky stint with 3 HOF players and to pimp his out of date offensive model. This should be the end of Martz.As a Gore owner, I applaud Martz keeping Davis around to block. However it is probably because you need an extra 10 seconds in Martz system to complete a pass....not run the ball with Gore.

The same out of date offensive model that turned the Detroit passing offense from one of the worst in the league for several years running into two top 10 passing seasons in a row overnight? Or maybe it was because of the HOF caliber Kitna, McDonald, and Furrey that allowed that to happen.

Care to expand on the results? Oh let me. Kitna sacked like he was an Idaho potato. Losing season.

 

[Moniker]

He says in no uncertain terms that Davis will not get a lot of receptions this year. I don't think he can spell out 45-catch season any plainer. Also mentioning what a good blocker he is and how they need to keep focusing him on what he is good at. But I guess people will always hear what they want.

You being one of them. You're reading stuff that isn't there...

 

[Jedimaster21]

Actually, what it highlights is that IF Davis is used as one of the 4 main receiving options in the Martz offense his floor is something like what Furrey or Johnson did. It sounds like Davis is going to be one of those 4 main options. Now it's a question of how you value that.

That's a great point gr00vus. If we're projecting at 700/6 with a late round pick, then we may be on target.

I've been a bit more conservative at around 600/5 with around 50 catches. I'm more than happy with that from my TE that I'm taking after 8 or so are already off the board. Then there's the possibility of him reaching some of his hyped up personal potential combined with running in a Martz offense - that raises him a bit above the 6 or so other guys I have pooled around those projections.

I really think these numbers are a little conservative. When you have old/unproven WR, any smart offensive coordinator will turn to the most talented player on the field. Davis is big and fast (in a freakish way) and he has better hands than many give him credit for. Those projections are close to what he had last year when he played in one of the worst offenses ever and was playing through injures. I don't think it should be too difficult for Davis to reach 800 yards and 8 scores.

 

[sholditch]

Um, scuse me hippie, but point the post I made that = "the sky is falling"

1. How would you categorize the thread title: "OUch for Vernon Davis owners - bad news from Martz" ?

How bout this?You: Making crap up to make yourself sound good

2. For someone who's spent a fair amount of time getting on other peoples' cases about how you don't like the tone of their posting, where would this fit on the scale of "being excellent"?

1. Saying that this could be a bad sign. Sky is falling would be "Drop Davis for any TE available" or some such silliness. All I did was post an article relevant to a player that a lot of people have high expectations for, in order to give them more info about their player. IMO this is bad news rather than good. Saying that does not = the sky is falling.2. You have me confused with gianmarco. I don't give a crap how people talk to each other here. Also do not subscribe to the Bill and Ted way of life.

 

[sholditch]

He says in no uncertain terms that Davis will not get a lot of receptions this year. I don't think he can spell out 45-catch season any plainer. Also mentioning what a good blocker he is and how they need to keep focusing him on what he is good at. But I guess people will always hear what they want.

You being one of them. You're reading stuff that isn't there...

Well, what do you take from the first sentence where he says his receptions may or may not be there. You think by saying that he is emphasizing "may" rather than "may not"? If that's the case, why wouldn't he just say that VD is going to be a big part of the offense. Given Martz's history with TEs, I think it's pretty logical to conclude this is cause for concern about his targets rather than cause for confidence, no?

 

[Gr00vus]

1. Saying that this could be a bad sign. Sky is falling would be "Drop Davis for any TE available" or some such silliness. All I did was post an article relevant to a player that a lot of people have high expectations for, in order to give them more info about their player. IMO this is bad news rather than good. Saying that does not = the sky is falling.

I guess I'm not matching your intention to your "posting style" then, because you seem to imply a bit more than that with the OUch and the "bad news" along with your general tone.

2. You have me confused with gianmarco. I don't give a crap how people talk to each other here. Also do not subscribe to the Bill and Ted way of life.

Really? So someone else posted this using your account then?

Man, I'm sorry, but the chest-puffing, why-is-everyone-so-much-dumber-than-me attitude in the SP has gotten completely out of hand.

And the be excellent thing is kinda supposed to be the modus operandi of the board here - as per the owners' instruction.

 

[Ozymandias]

So, either Martz is going to use Vernon Davis in the passing game, or he isn't. If he is, then he's blowing a little smoke. If he isn't, then he's blowing a little smoke.

My guess is, with the o-line they have, he wants him to stay in and block, so that O'Sullivan can have the thirty seconds that Martz requires for his receivers to run down and do a Crazy Ivan/Keystone Cops imitation. But occasionally, he'll send Davis out and he'll have a 50 yard reception for a TD.

 

[AnonymousBob]

So, either Martz is going to use Vernon Davis in the passing game, or he isn't. If he is, then he's blowing a little smoke. If he isn't, then he's blowing a little smoke.My guess is, with the o-line they have, he wants him to stay in and block, so that O'Sullivan can have the thirty seconds that Martz requires for his receivers to run down and do a Crazy Ivan/Keystone Cops imitation. But occasionally, he'll send Davis out and he'll have a 50 yard reception for a TD.

I agree.

 

[sterjs]

The same out of date offensive model that turned the Detroit passing offense from one of the worst in the league for several years running into two top 10 passing seasons in a row overnight? Or maybe it was because of the HOF caliber Kitna, McDonald, and Furrey that allowed that to happen.

The Lions were a top 10 passing attack the last two seasons in the same way that Chicago was above average at passing last year.There is more to football than fantasy points.

 

[baconisgood]

Ummm... What's your point? :X

My point is that even if you think Davis is the Niners' best offensive weapon (which he's clearly not--he's not even been shown to be among their best receivers) there's no reason to believe that Martz will use him. Martz' behavior in Detroit was to give huge number of targets to marginal backups instead of relying on Roy Williams, Calvin Johnson, and Kevin Jones, who any outside observer would identify as the three most physically talented players on the offense.

Looking at the stats from last year:Receiving Statistics Player Rec Yds Yds/Rec Long TD Shaun McDonald 79 943 11.9 49 6 Roy Williams 64 838 13.1 91 5 Mike Furrey 61 664 10.9 49 1 Calvin Johnson 48 756 15.8 49 4 Kevin Jones 32 197 6.2 16 0 Looking at games played:* Jones played in 13 games, but only started 10 games due to poor play or injury, and as I recall he was injured most of last year and is still recovering from that injury this year.* Johnson played in 15 games, but only started 10 games as he was learning the offense. As a matter of fact, the first several games he was in, he was almost a non-factor.* Williams played in 12 games and started each of those games.* Both Furrey and MacDonald played in all 16 games.So your premise is that Williams and Johnson (rookie) were not used enough due to the fact that other receivers had higher numbers, however both of those receivers AND Jones did not play every game in the year. If you were to project the numbers for Williams IF HE PLAYED ALL SEASON, he was on target for 85.3 receptions or 1,117 yards, which would clearly have made him the #1. My thoughts are that Martz used his weapons where he had them, and he had to get CJ used to the offense as Martz runs a complex offense and he was a rookie. Not every rookie is a Boldin.So again, I think Martz uses the talents around him when they are available.

Good post, I was going to reply with the 2006 version where Roy Williams had 1300 yards and 7 TDs and and Kevin Jones had 1200 yards and 8 TDs in 12 games.

 

[SugarNuts]

Shouldn't be a huge shock. He's never really used the TE a lot in his offenses of the past...

Yet the over-rated idiot continues ride his lucky stint with 3 HOF players and to pimp his out of date offensive model. This should be the end of Martz.As a Gore owner, I applaud Martz keeping Davis around to block. However it is probably because you need an extra 10 seconds in Martz system to complete a pass....not run the ball with Gore.

I don't mean to hijack the thread but you're not calling Warner a Hall of Fame QB are you?

Bruce, Holt, Faulk?

 

[sad pandas]

I got VD in the 10th round, but then the stripper left and I drafted Vernon in the 12th.

My league starts 3wr and 1wr/te, no te required, i took him b/c his upside was better than most wr at that point and i prob won't use (or keep him) unless he turns it on early

 

[mt-wabo]

This whole article is BS every time Sirius interviews a 49er all they talk about is Vernon and how the coaches want him to have the ball in the hands and make big plays, as far as the other comment about him not being the only top offensive guy on the team outside of gore who else is better than Davis?

Im predicting a slot type player and a TE all wrapped in one, I could be wrong but if they use him like the players are saying he could be a top 5 TE this year, no way all that talent is used for blocking and an occassional catch here and there,

 

[hauser42]

Shouldn't be a huge shock. He's never really used the TE a lot in his offenses of the past...

Yet the over-rated idiot continues ride his lucky stint with 3 HOF players and to pimp his out of date offensive model. This should be the end of Martz.As a Gore owner, I applaud Martz keeping Davis around to block. However it is probably because you need an extra 10 seconds in Martz system to complete a pass....not run the ball with Gore.

I don't mean to hijack the thread but you're not calling Warner a Hall of Fame QB are you?

,.Not sold that Holt is even a Hall of Famer at this point in his career either.VD has done one thing great, run real fast in his underwear at the combine. I said it right after the combine he would be be picked high and not put up the numbers some predicted.

 

[Big Worm]

This could be BS from Davis, but apparently he thinks he will be involved a lot:From sfgate.com:

(08-25) 20:23 PDT Santa Clara, Calif. (AP) --In the past, Vernon Davis might have been worried by this point in the preseason about his opportunities once the season opener rolled around. But the San Francisco 49ers tight end was smiling on Monday."My role is going to be major in this offense, major," Davis said after the 49ers' morning walkthrough practice.So far, Davis' numbers have been anything but major. Davis has just four catches for 72 yards and no scores through the first three exhibition games. He's been more of an afterthought than a featured weapon in new offensive coordinator Mike Martz's scheme.But Davis says Martz has yet to unveil the total package being prepared for when the real games begin."There's a lot of stuff we run in practice that we don't get a chance to run in preseason just because we don't want to reveal too much," Davis said.Instead of consistently lining up in a three-point stance directly next to an offensive tackle, as he did last season, Davis said he'll line up everywhere imaginable in order to get mismatches and get open.Davis offered a glimpse Thursday night against the Chicago Bears of what he hopes to do often this season. On first-and-10 from the 49ers' 23 early in the second quarter, Davis raced deep downfield and caught a 40-yard pass from quarterback J.T. O'Sullivan.The tight end has never been much of a receiving factor in Martz's past offenses in St. Louis and Detroit. But Martz has not had a tight end like Davis, who combines size and strength with a wide receiver's speed."He's had some good tight ends in the past, but they've been kind of blocker or receiver, one or the other," Niners coach Mike Nolan said. "But with Vernon, he's pretty versatile."Davis said he and O'Sullivan, the team's new starting quarterback, are developing good chemistry as the Sept. 7 season opener approaches."He knows my speed. He knows where I'm going to be. He knows how to throw it and when to put it there," Davis said.Nolan named O'Sullivan his starter on Friday, ending a battle with Alex Smith and, to a lesser degree, Shaun Hill. Asked whether he thought Nolan made the right choice, Davis said all three quarterbacks played well.Last season, Davis caught 52 passes — ninth among NFL tight ends — for 509 yards and four touchdowns. This season, he said he expects bigger numbers and maybe a trip to the Pro Bowl."That's possible," Davis said. "But first, get some wins."

 

[Moniker]

He says in no uncertain terms that Davis will not get a lot of receptions this year. I don't think he can spell out 45-catch season any plainer. Also mentioning what a good blocker he is and how they need to keep focusing him on what he is good at. But I guess people will always hear what they want.

You being one of them. You're reading stuff that isn't there...

Well, what do you take from the first sentence where he says his receptions may or may not be there. You think by saying that he is emphasizing "may" rather than "may not"? If that's the case, why wouldn't he just say that VD is going to be a big part of the offense. Given Martz's history with TEs, I think it's pretty logical to conclude this is cause for concern about his targets rather than cause for confidence, no?

I read Martz saying this:"I expect Vernon to run block very well this season and as far as how I plan on using him in the passing game, well, I'm keeping that to myself."

 

[toxicbees]

VD is a great blocker, and both JTO and Gore are going to need it. In preseason it did seem like VD was getting some deep routes, and slants. I'm not worried about him, he's talented enough to make an impact.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Vernon Davis-TE- 49ers Aug. 28 - 3:07 am et

49ers offensive coordinator Mike Martz says that "the numbers for Vernon (Davis), in terms of receptions, may or may not be there this year."

"It may fluctuate during the season," Martz said. "What we expect from Vernon are big plays. He's a very, very substantial blocker." Davis has not lined up in the slot this preseason, but has run vertical routes. He's shaping up as a better pick in non-PPR leagues whose targets will be inconsistent.

Source: Sacramento Bee

from article:

RE: What about Vernon Davis, Coach? Would you like to see him get a little bit more involved?

"Well, he will. I think that the numbers for Vernon, in terms of receptions, may or may not be there this year. It may fluctuate during the season. But what we expect from Vernon are big plays. He's a very, very substantial blocker, which really allows us to a lot of good things in the running game. There's no question about that. But, when we get him the ball we'd like to get him the ball down the field or get him the ball in the shallow routes and let him take off with it, so to speak. Sometimes the defenses will dictate how much you get the ball to him. He's done a very good job out here in practice and we haven't done a whole lot with him in the preseason games but we certainly practice him a lot."

RE: Is he the guy you might move out into the slot if the receiver injuries dictate it?

"Sure. We've already done that in practice. We've moved him around a little bit. But it takes away from some of the other things that he does really well. The hard thing about Vernon is that he's a very talented guy. The more you do with him, then you have to be careful about not doing anything really well. And there's some things that he really does exceptionally well and we want to keep him grounded to that."

not sounding good

People really read what they want to out of these things.You: The sky is falling.

Me: The coach things the TE is a very capable run blocker (ie will be in at goaline, short-yardage sets) and wants to use him more in the VERTICAL passing game. This is Martz. I'd rather not have VD match up with a CB on the outside anyway. Let him thrive in martz trickeration/play action and go down the field. Look at the rec. in San Fran. Mostly smurfy dudes. That means nice red zone opps for a guy like Davis IMO. Add playing behind cuz your D blows, I see great things from Davis and could see him cracking the top 5. Then again That can be said about almost 10-15 TEs this year.

Couldn't have said it better.... Coachspeak in full force. I am in agreement that I think Davis is one of SF's best weapons, and I believe Martz has the intelligence to know that or he wouldn't still be an offensive coach. This article tells me nothing.

Really. I bet you could have come up with something more eloquent than "smurfy dudes". :420:

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Vernon Davis-TE- 49ers Aug. 28 - 3:07 am et

49ers offensive coordinator Mike Martz says that "the numbers for Vernon (Davis), in terms of receptions, may or may not be there this year."

"It may fluctuate during the season," Martz said. "What we expect from Vernon are big plays. He's a very, very substantial blocker." Davis has not lined up in the slot this preseason, but has run vertical routes. He's shaping up as a better pick in non-PPR leagues whose targets will be inconsistent.

Source: Sacramento Bee

from article:

RE: What about Vernon Davis, Coach? Would you like to see him get a little bit more involved?

"Well, he will. I think that the numbers for Vernon, in terms of receptions, may or may not be there this year. It may fluctuate during the season. But what we expect from Vernon are big plays. He's a very, very substantial blocker, which really allows us to a lot of good things in the running game. There's no question about that. But, when we get him the ball we'd like to get him the ball down the field or get him the ball in the shallow routes and let him take off with it, so to speak. Sometimes the defenses will dictate how much you get the ball to him. He's done a very good job out here in practice and we haven't done a whole lot with him in the preseason games but we certainly practice him a lot."

RE: Is he the guy you might move out into the slot if the receiver injuries dictate it?

"Sure. We've already done that in practice. We've moved him around a little bit. But it takes away from some of the other things that he does really well. The hard thing about Vernon is that he's a very talented guy. The more you do with him, then you have to be careful about not doing anything really well. And there's some things that he really does exceptionally well and we want to keep him grounded to that."

not sounding good

People really read what they want to out of these things.You: The sky is falling.

Me: The coach things the TE is a very capable run blocker (ie will be in at goaline, short-yardage sets) and wants to use him more in the VERTICAL passing game. This is Martz. I'd rather not have VD match up with a CB on the outside anyway. Let him thrive in martz trickeration/play action and go down the field. Look at the rec. in San Fran. Mostly smurfy dudes. That means nice red zone opps for a guy like Davis IMO. Add playing behind cuz your D blows, I see great things from Davis and could see him cracking the top 5. Then again That can be said about almost 10-15 TEs this year.

Um, scuse me hippie, but point the post I made that = "the sky is falling"How bout this?

You: Making crap up to make yourself sound good

Hmm is it the thread title that says "Ouch for Vernon Davis Owners"/Bad News inside, and then contains praise for the player. You are an SEC homer who was obviously "learned" in southern public education.

You: Ouch for Vernon Davis Owners"/Bad News inside.

Another forum reader with EXACT same quote" 49ers TE Vernon Davis To Be A Big-Play Threat?"

He says in no uncertain terms that Davis will not get a lot of receptions this year. I don't think he can spell out 45-catch season any plainer. Also mentioning what a good blocker he is and how they need to keep focusing him on what he is good at. But I guess people will always hear what they want.

reconcile this.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Um, scuse me hippie, but point the post I made that = "the sky is falling"

How would you categorize the thread title: "OUch for Vernon Davis owners - bad news from Martz" ?

How bout this?You: Making crap up to make yourself sound good

For someone who's spent a fair amount of time getting on other peoples' cases about how you don't like the tone of their posting, where would this fit on the scale of "being excellent"?

bannings are for thin skinned morons. I just feel bad for the kid that he cannot see the logical gaps and contradictions in a one page thread.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Um, scuse me hippie, but point the post I made that = "the sky is falling"

How would you categorize the thread title: "OUch for Vernon Davis owners - bad news from Martz" ?

How bout this?

You: Making crap up to make yourself sound good

For someone who's spent a fair amount of time getting on other peoples' cases about how you don't like the tone of their posting, where would this fit on the scale of "being excellent"?

More like OUCH for opposing teammates (but soon to be opposing teams)

49ers Training Camp: Vernon Davis fisticuffs.....again

Dave_tiny by Fooch on Aug 15, 2008 12:10 PM PDT in News

Word came out yesterday that Vernon Davis got in another fight in camp, this time with Larry Grant. Apparently Davis was doing some blocking on a DeShaun Foster run and Grant took exception. Maiocco is reporting that after Jonas Jennings came over to calm them down, some swings resulted and Grant may have been punched in the stomach. After things calmed down, Nolan took the Duke aside and had a man-to-man talk with him.

This is not the first time this training camp Davis has gotten in a fight, and I'm wondering if a troubling pattern is emerging. I figure there's good and bad in the fights. On the one hand it seems like it comes as a result of him sticking up for teammates, which is certainly admirable. On the other hand, he's always been a bit of a smack-talker and we certainly don't want his head out of the game because he wants to beat up an opponent.

I've seen Davis talk smack during games but I don't think he's ever come to blows with an opponent. Of course if he had been the one Romanowski spit on several years back (instead of Stokes), he probably would have tried to take his head off.

We certainly want emotion and energy in practice, so if it takes some punches to fire the team up, so be it. However, considering how much talent Davis brings to the table, we don't want him alienating the rest of the team. I don't see this as a TO situation in the slightest. If TO had just gotten in some fights in practice that would have been one thing. When he started using the press in his war with Garcia and others that was a little more of a problem.

So what do people think with Vernon Davis?

EDITOR'S UPDATE 12:10PM - Not sure if anybody has seen it, but the 49ers have a somewhat new "official" blog run by Chrissy Mauck (more on that later today either on the front page or in a FanPost). Apparently there have been some attacks on Vernon Davis in the sf49ers.com message boards (which I hoped to avoid in this post). So Chrissy had some interesting comments about Davis:

I’d like to make a quick comment in defense of the attacks on tight end Vernon Davis over on our message boards. Yes, Davis tends to mix it up in practice, but Vernon truly is one of the nicest people you will ever meet. He gets under the skin of a lot of the guys on defense, particularly in the run blocking game, because he’s so physical. He doesn’t take it easy, or let up just because it’s practice. He’s not the jerk that some people think he is over on the boards. Granted, I did tell him yesterday that if he breaks his hand getting in a stupid fight in practice that I’d kick his butt, but he had an answer even for that. “I will yell and shove, but I’m not going to ever swing first. I’ll swing back, but watch me, I never make a fist. I keep my hand open like a slap.” See, he is using his head.

Take it for what it's worth, but something to factor in I'd imagine.

 

[cstu]

Um, scuse me hippie, but point the post I made that = "the sky is falling"

How would you categorize the thread title: "OUch for Vernon Davis owners - bad news from Martz" ?

How bout this?

You: Making crap up to make yourself sound good

For someone who's spent a fair amount of time getting on other peoples' cases about how you don't like the tone of their posting, where would this fit on the scale of "being excellent"?

More like OUCH for opposing teammates (but soon to be opposing teams)

49ers Training Camp: Vernon Davis fisticuffs.....again

Dave_tiny by Fooch on Aug 15, 2008 12:10 PM PDT in News

Word came out yesterday that Vernon Davis got in another fight in camp, this time with Larry Grant. Apparently Davis was doing some blocking on a DeShaun Foster run and Grant took exception. Maiocco is reporting that after Jonas Jennings came over to calm them down, some swings resulted and Grant may have been punched in the stomach. After things calmed down, Nolan took the Duke aside and had a man-to-man talk with him.

This is not the first time this training camp Davis has gotten in a fight, and I'm wondering if a troubling pattern is emerging. I figure there's good and bad in the fights. On the one hand it seems like it comes as a result of him sticking up for teammates, which is certainly admirable. On the other hand, he's always been a bit of a smack-talker and we certainly don't want his head out of the game because he wants to beat up an opponent.

I've seen Davis talk smack during games but I don't think he's ever come to blows with an opponent. Of course if he had been the one Romanowski spit on several years back (instead of Stokes), he probably would have tried to take his head off.

We certainly want emotion and energy in practice, so if it takes some punches to fire the team up, so be it. However, considering how much talent Davis brings to the table, we don't want him alienating the rest of the team. I don't see this as a TO situation in the slightest. If TO had just gotten in some fights in practice that would have been one thing. When he started using the press in his war with Garcia and others that was a little more of a problem.

So what do people think with Vernon Davis?

EDITOR'S UPDATE 12:10PM - Not sure if anybody has seen it, but the 49ers have a somewhat new "official" blog run by Chrissy Mauck (more on that later today either on the front page or in a FanPost). Apparently there have been some attacks on Vernon Davis in the sf49ers.com message boards (which I hoped to avoid in this post). So Chrissy had some interesting comments about Davis:

I’d like to make a quick comment in defense of the attacks on tight end Vernon Davis over on our message boards. Yes, Davis tends to mix it up in practice, but Vernon truly is one of the nicest people you will ever meet. He gets under the skin of a lot of the guys on defense, particularly in the run blocking game, because he’s so physical. He doesn’t take it easy, or let up just because it’s practice. He’s not the jerk that some people think he is over on the boards. Granted, I did tell him yesterday that if he breaks his hand getting in a stupid fight in practice that I’d kick his butt, but he had an answer even for that. “I will yell and shove, but I’m not going to ever swing first. I’ll swing back, but watch me, I never make a fist. I keep my hand open like a slap.” See, he is using his head.

Take it for what it's worth, but something to factor in I'd imagine.

To keep the team from fighting, Martz should stop making Vernon block./Burnin' Vernon owner

 

[49erBamBam52]

I've never been high on VD (nor Vernon Davis), but if this changes your opinion of him even one little bit then you must be new to this whole following football in the offseason thing.

This is the very definition of coachspeak. You know, the kind where if someone actually went back and ran a study on how this stuff played out we'd probably find out that more than 50% of the time the complete OPPOSITE of what was said is closer to the truth.

I'm starting to wonder if hearing bad news about a guy is actually a GOOD thing in the offseason. If anything, I think this story is more of an indication that Martz wants Davis to catch 80 balls than it is an indication that he wants him to catch 30 downfield and block the rest of the time.

Think about it, what reason would Martz have for telling every defensive coordinator in the leage the truth about how he wants to use the guy?

I think your on the right track there...

As a niners homer, i could not imagine using VD mainly for blocking, especially when there is allready another very good blocking TE on the team by the name of Billy Bajema (of course youve never heard of him... hes a blocking TE, but hes pretty darn good, and hes not paid like Vernon is).

FreeBaGel is right IMHO... Why would Martz tell the rest of the NFL exactly how they are going to use the teams most athletically gifted player... If he did that, as a niners fan it would not make me happy.

He will block only until people are used to him blocking, then they will send him on all kinds of patterns down field.

Draft him anywhere after the 8th round and you will get a steal for sure.

BAM

 

[Gr00vus]

At the super blocking prowess - he got owned by Shaun Phillips last night. They're better off just sending him out in the patterns.

Davis was all over the field on pass plays and was the primary read on most of the patterns he was in. They lined him up every where too.

As long as he can catch the ball, he'll have a nice season.

 

[Tenderknee]

Shouldn't be a huge shock. He's never really used the TE a lot in his offenses of the past...

Yet the over-rated idiot continues ride his lucky stint with 3 HOF players and to pimp his out of date offensive model. This should be the end of Martz.As a Gore owner, I applaud Martz keeping Davis around to block. However it is probably because you need an extra 10 seconds in Martz system to complete a pass....not run the ball with Gore.

I don't mean to hijack the thread but you're not calling Warner a Hall of Fame QB are you?

Bruce, Holt, Faulk?

Orlando Pace, Holt, Faulk