Over-reacting? (1 Viewer)

[Gawain]

Little Background:

My mother-in-law and sister-in-law watch my two kids (two-year-old and eight-month-old) in an unlicensed day care facility run out of my mother-in-law's house. During a normal summer day there are SIL two kids (8 yo and 7 yo), my two kids (2 yo and 8 mo), 3-5 other children between the ages of six-months-old and two-years-old. SIL, MIL and a helper (from 9-4 or so) watch the children. One of the children require a pickup and drop off, so either SIL or MIL is gone for an hour at the beginning and the end of the day.

The SIL's 8yo is adopted out of the DFS system. He was placed with SIL when he was three days old and is a normal, hyper eight-year-old. The SIL has left herself open for temporary placements. She has had four children placed with her temporarily, all under the age of three. I was under the impression that all temporary placements would be toddler-age or younger.

On Friday, she stated that a twelve year old from the CPS system had been placed with her and would be at the daycare for a week starting tomorrow. This coincides with MIL being out of the country on vacation. 

I have a real problem with any twelve-year-old that I'm completely unfamiliar with being left alone with my kids and I admit that my perception of the situation is worse because the twelve-year-old comes from the CPS system. Making matters even worse, SIL is planning on the twelve-year-old helping with the daycare, due to MIL being out of the country. I'm also a little concerned over the influence the twelve-year-old may have over my kid's cousins, but figure that's not my place to raise my concerns.

However, I'm very upset over the judgment shown by SIL here. My wife and I wouldn't have been notified if we weren't family and SIL is not planning on telling the parents of the other children that attend the daycare.

Am I over-reacting (flying my mother down for the week to watch my kids, considering pulling kids from this arrangement)?
Do I have any duty/reason to inform the other parents of the situation their child(ren) will be in?

 

[Jaysus]

Yes.

 

[General Malaise]

I do not think you are overreacting but what you've typed in here.  I would have some of the same concerns.  I don't know if I would tell the other parents, but I would tell the SIL that she should do so and I would probably not park my kids there again if she didn't inform them.  

Tough situation, but you sound reasonable to me.

 

[offdee]

Prediction: more outrage over the hyphen, than the 12 yr old.

 

[guru_007]

I don't think you're overreacting.  They're YOUR kids.  

If you're not comfortable with it, find alternate means of day care for your children.  And while I don't think it's your responsibility to tell the other parents, I would think that your SIL should be obliged to let them know who may be watching their children.

 

[eoMMan]

I agree.  You're not overreacting.

In fact, I'd be overreacting to them not being licensed and watching other people's kids.  What if they get fined or shut down?

ETA:  Being that the SIL works with DFS and their foster kids, is she and the children's housing maybe under more scrutiny?

 

[GroveDiesel]

I agree.  You're not overreacting.

In fact, I'd be overreacting to them not being licensed and watching other people's kids.  What if they get fined or shut down?

ETA:  Being that the SIL works with DFS and their foster kids, is she and the children's housing maybe under more scrutiny?

I would say if the SIL gets caught running an unlicensed daycare, DFS is going to be involved but as an adversarial role.

 

[belljr]

why would they be alone with the 12 year old?

ETA: Not sure how outraged you can be using an illegal daycare in the first place :ducksandcover:

 

[Galileo]

why would they be alone with the 12 year old?

ETA: Not sure how outraged you can be using an illegal daycare in the first place :ducksandcover:

I suspect when the SIL goes to pick up/drop of the child in need of transportation at the beginning and end of the day

 

[Gawain]

why would they be alone with the 12 year old?

ETA: Not sure how outraged you can be using an illegal daycare in the first place :ducksandcover:

I tend to agree. SIL was licensed at one point. I believe the license has lapsed with the state, but I'm unsure. I do know she's still using checks with the daycare's name. A quick search of the state's regulated childcare site does not give a hit though. NYS does allow for a legally-exempt care provider where care is given by friends/family and no more than 8 children are present. Our arrangement would fall under this legally-exempt provision.

The original arrangement was for MIL to watch the kids and we'd pay her directly. The daycare sprung up around our kids. 

I would hope my kids wouldn't be alone with the temporary placement, but as neither my wife nor I will be there, I can't be certain. I will admit that my perception is colored by the fact that the twelve-year-old child is out of the CPS system. My father worked in the system for 20 years and told me numerous horror stories about what the kids in the system can do to each other. I'm not proud that I have this aversion, but I also can't deny that I have a reaction. 

 

[RUSF18]

Are you the guy who claimed to be paying $5/hour for daycare in the "babysitting" thread? 

Makes sense if so.

 

[Gawain]

Are you the guy who claimed to be paying $5/hour for daycare in the "babysitting" thread? 

Makes sense if so.

Never really worked it out on an hourly basis, but we're paying two grand a month for two kids and are/were happy that we're getting such a good deal.

ETA: The calculation changes if we/I don't have any input over who will also be present in the house.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Is your SIL out of her mind leaving a 12 year old (that she hardly knows) alone to watch six and eight month old infants?

She should have a friend or someone fill in for her mom for the week.

 

[brun]

A daycare business where it's possible that an unknown,  even to the business owner, 12 year old could be in charge of a handful of infants and toddlers for a couple hour or so. Might be the greatest kid ever, but I would make other arrangements for that week and probably consider a permanent change. 

Tough spot. Good luck. 

 

[Psychopav]

Is the helper there when the SIL won't be?

I agree this is problematic and I wouldn't let my kids stay there supervised only by a 12 y.o. who you never knew existed two weeks ago.

Also have concerns about the helper - if the daycare is unlicensed, has the helper passed a background check?  This isn't the 1980s (and you wouldn't want to repeat the mistakes of that era anyway).

 

[Gawain]

A daycare business where it's possible that an unknown,  even to the business owner, 12 year old could be in charge of a handful of infants and toddlers for a couple hour or so. Might be the greatest kid ever, but I would make other arrangements for that week and probably consider a permanent change. 

Tough spot. Good luck. 

The helper will be there when SIL is doing pickup/dropoff. I'm also going to insist that the SIL bring the 12yo along for the ride. I'm bringing my mom in for the week to put another adult in the house as well. I just was lucky that my mom was able to come down on a moment's notice to help keep an eye on the situation. 

Is the helper there when the SIL won't be?

I agree this is problematic and I wouldn't let my kids stay there supervised only by a 12 y.o. who you never knew existed two weeks ago.

Also have concerns about the helper - if the daycare is unlicensed, has the helper passed a background check?  This isn't the 1980s (and you wouldn't want to repeat the mistakes of that era anyway).

Helper will be there. I'm hoping the 12yo is wrapped up in whatever 12yos do and stays out of the way.
I'm now going to press my wife (who isn't thrilled about the situation or my reaction) about what is known about the helper. Thanks for another issue to worry about.

 

[parasaurolophus]

It sounded fairly sketchy prior to the talk of the 12 year old helping. If my wife told me that our daughter was going to be spending any time with a 12 year old kid from CPS before said child had a chance to really be settled in, I wouldn't hesitate for one second to be done with that whole weird situation.

 

[shadyridr]

Who cares what we think? If you feel uncomfortable with the situation bring your kids to another daycare. They're your children

 

[Psychopav]

Who cares what we think? If you feel uncomfortable with the situation bring your kids to another daycare. They're your children

If only life were this simple.

What about how his wife feels about it?  Are you suggesting he just make unilateral decisions about childcare?  Are you ok if his wife does as well?

What about how the children would feel about it?

That said, this does bring another option to mind:  I think most daycares will do week to week so another solution would be to find one you like and trust temporarily until the MIL gets back.

 

[Gawain]

Who cares what we think? If you feel uncomfortable with the situation bring your kids to another daycare. They're your children

My wife thinks I'm overreacting bigly. Had the FBG consensus also been that I was making a mountain out of a molehill, I'd have changed my thoughts. Seems like some others would have similar concerns.

The big concern here is that MIL depends on our cash from child care to fund their retirement. For my wife (and me to a lesser extent) pulling our kids makes a whole host of family problems arise.

ETA: We benefit as well. 2K for two kids on Long Island is below, maybe well below, market rate. Kids (daughter especially) likes spending time with Grandma. If wife and I are late or have to go in early, there's no worry about daycare. 

 

[shadyridr]

If only life were this simple.

What about how his wife feels about it?  Are you suggesting he just make unilateral decisions about childcare?  Are you ok if his wife does as well?

What about how the children would feel about it?

That said, this does bring another option to mind:  I think most daycares will do week to week so another solution would be to find one you like and trust temporarily until the MIL gets back.

I assumed his wife agreed with him

 

[shadyridr]

My wife thinks I'm overreacting bigly. Had the FBG consensus had also been that I was making a mountain out of a molehill, I'd have changed my thoughts. Seems like some others would have similar concerns.

The big concern here is that MIL depends on our cash from child care to fund their retirement. For my wife (and me to a lesser extent) pulling our kids makes a whole host of family problems arise.

See above. I made a HUGE assumption that your wife agreed with you.

Unfortunately, not to scare you or your wife but I belong on many child loss support groups and the number of parents who lose their infants to daycare negligence is staggering. Leaving a 12 year old alone with an 8 month old is something I'd never do. Infants die of SIDS due to negligence. A 12 year old would know about that or be playing with their phone instead?

 

[guru_007]

The big concern here is that MIL depends on our cash from child care to fund their retirement. For my wife (and me to a lesser extent) pulling our kids makes a whole host of family problems arise.

This should be of no concern to you at all.  Sorry.  They're your children, your responsibility to keep safe.  And you shouldn't be harnessing any burden for your MIL's retirement.  My MIL is dirt poor, in her 70's and watching her daughters two young children before/after school and a few days a week during the summer (eta, these are not my children, they are another daughters and they live in another state).  She would have never dreamed have charging to watch them.  If she couldn't do it, she wouldn't.  I have nothing against your MIL charging you something to lend you peace of mind that your children are safe and being well cared for, but if you feel that they are not, get them the hell out of there.  And ffs who cares what the FBG FFA think anyway?

 

[Gawain]

This should be of no concern to you at all.  Sorry.  They're your children, your responsibility to keep safe.  And you shouldn't be harnessing any burden for your MIL's retirement.  My MIL is dirt poor, in her 70's and watching her daughters two young children before/after school and a few days a week during the summer (eta, these are not my children, they are another daughters and they live in another state).  She would have never dreamed have charging to watch them.  If she couldn't do it, she wouldn't.  I have nothing against your MIL charging you something to lend you peace of mind that your children are safe and being well cared for, but if you feel that they are not, get them the hell out of there.  And ffs who cares what the FBG FFA think anyway?

Lot of family dynamics in play that cause me to at least want to act from a well-reasoned position. I think I've mitigated any lousy outcome by having my mom in town for the week in question. While the responsibility to keep my kids safe is one I understand and take seriously, I also have a duty to not submarine their relationship with their grandparents. I have a duty to my marriage not to cut my wife off at the knees. If this was all about me acting unilaterally in what I think is the best interest of the kids we'd be living in Maine learning coding and I'd have two budding apiarists. 

I also care what the FFA thinks. There's a lot of smart folks who have lots of life experience in here. I wanted to make sure I wasn't tilting at windmills here. Lot of guys I'd trust in here more than a random 12 year old.

 

[brun]

The helper will be there when SIL is doing pickup/dropoff. I'm also going to insist that the SIL bring the 12yo along for the ride. I'm bringing my mom in for the week to put another adult in the house as well. I just was lucky that my mom was able to come down on a moment's notice to help keep an eye on the situation. 

Helper will be there. I'm hoping the 12yo is wrapped up in whatever 12yos do and stays out of the way.
I'm now going to press my wife (who isn't thrilled about the situation or my reaction) about what is known about the helper. Thanks for another issue to worry about.

So the 12yo won't be alone with the little ones. The helper, a responsible person, and your mom will be there the whole time. It's not good that there wasn't much notice, but I wouldn't have the same level of concern as I did originally.

Since your mom is in town. Is it possible she could watch your kids alone at your home a couple afternoons during the week?

 

[Angry Beavers]

Your kids and it is what your comfortable with. It really doesn't matter what others think. 

Having a 12 year old watch a houseful of toddlers and younger for an hour sounds unreasonable. 

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

I do not think you are overreacting but what you've typed in here.  I would have some of the same concerns.  I don't know if I would tell the other parents, but I would tell the SIL that she should do so and I would probably not park my kids there again if she didn't inform them.  

Tough situation, but you sound reasonable to me.

I agree with this.  There's a reason that the daycare isn't licensed.  It wouldn't pass any state standards.  I wouldn't put any kid I cared about in there.  Statistically, an unknown twelve-year-old is a danger to the other kids.  And how do they all get out if there is a fire?  A whole bunch of kids here in Houston died just that way.  There are a lot of examples of this sort of haphazard daycare causing children harm.

I also agree with the above poster who said that you are not responsible for funding your MIL's retirement.  Your children come first.  Not that I would want to separate them from their grandmother, but it's not their job to fund her retirement either.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

Upon reflection, I think the thing that bothers me most is that the MIL and SIL sound so scatterbrained and haphazard about the whole thing.  Maybe that's just the way you made it sound, but I got the idea that they hadn't given any of this much thought.  I just didn't get that vibe that they are all that competent.

 

[Thomas The Skank Engine]

The big concern here is that MIL depends on our cash from child care to fund their retirement. 

And her out of the country vacation apparently.

 

[DallasDMac]

While the responsibility to keep my kids safe is one I understand and take seriously, I also have a duty to not submarine their relationship with their grandparents. I have a duty to my marriage not to cut my wife off at the knees.

Let's rank these.

Responsibility to keep my kids safe

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. (insert about another 13,000 or so of these here)

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Duty to my marriage not to cut my wife off at the knees.

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Duty to not submarine their relationship with their grandparents

 

[Cjw_55106]

Would you feel worse if your mom watched them for the week and bad feeling occured or if you sent them and something happened? 

Seems like a no-brainer to me. 

 

[Juxtatarot]

Does anyone else wonder about the motivation of SIL taking in the 12-year old?  She'll get money from the state, right?  Plus she's using the child for labor.  Maybe I'm too negative and am assuming the worst.

 

[eoMMan]

Lot of family dynamics in play that cause me to at least want to act from a well-reasoned position. I think I've mitigated any lousy outcome by having my mom in town for the week in question. While the responsibility to keep my kids safe is one I understand and take seriously, I also have a duty to not submarine their relationship with their grandparents. I have a duty to my marriage not to cut my wife off at the knees. If this was all about me acting unilaterally in what I think is the best interest of the kids we'd be living in Maine learning coding and I'd have two budding apiarists. 

I also care what the FFA thinks. There's a lot of smart folks who have lots of life experience in here. I wanted to make sure I wasn't tilting at windmills here. Lot of guys I'd trust in here more than a random 12 year old.

Update on this?

 

[Gawain]

Update on this?

Wife wants to have a third kid! It'll be cheaper just to get an au pair.

Everything went well. Foster kid seemed as nice as everyone said from the feedback I received. My mom was really happy to come down and get to spend time. Said she'd do it more often, but was worried that she'd be imposing. I thought it was great having her around. My mother was very impressed by the helper and completely unimpressed by sister-in-law. 
The last day the foster kid was here my sister-in-law fainted at Friendly's so the foster kid, the niece and the nephew all got to stay with us. What fun.

I like to think that I made a major impression with my reaction. I don't think there will be more preteens/teens showing up unannounced. If there are, I'll probably go for the nuclear option and put the kids somewhere else.

Does anyone else wonder about the motivation of SIL taking in the 12-year old?  She'll get money from the state, right?  Plus she's using the child for labor.  Maybe I'm too negative and am assuming the worst.

I'm sure there is some altruistic thought here, but my impression was she was looking forward to having a built in playmate for her daughter and the money ($300 maybe) didn't hurt.

I agree with this.  There's a reason that the daycare isn't licensed.  It wouldn't pass any state standards.  I wouldn't put any kid I cared about in there.  Statistically, an unknown twelve-year-old is a danger to the other kids.  And how do they all get out if there is a fire?  A whole bunch of kids here in Houston died just that way.  There are a lot of examples of this sort of haphazard daycare causing children harm.

I also agree with the above poster who said that you are not responsible for funding your MIL's retirement.  Your children come first.  Not that I would want to separate them from their grandmother, but it's not their job to fund her retirement either.

I'm comfortable with the daycare outside of the unknown aspect of random 12 year olds. My MIL worked in childcare for 25+ years. Their helper worked in childcare for 25+ years. My SIL has an early elementary degree and worked in childcare for 10+ years (probably why they need retirement help; not a lucrative career). It's run out of Grandma's den. Ton of toys, everything is carpeted. It did pass state standards at one point. Think the license was dropped because they never got more than 8 kids to not be OK under the family/friends exclusion.

Upon reflection, I think the thing that bothers me most is that the MIL and SIL sound so scatterbrained and haphazard about the whole thing.  Maybe that's just the way you made it sound, but I got the idea that they hadn't given any of this much thought.  I just didn't get that vibe that they are all that competent.

SIL is scatterbrained. I wouldn't let her watch my kids without other help there. I have no idea what she's going to do when the whole thing becomes too much for MIL and helper. Right now she's banking 4-5K cash a month. Daycare job would be $15 an hour.