Overhaul of the NYJ defense (1 Viewer)

[Chase Stuart]

Here was the team in 2006, the year the Jets made the playoffs.

DE: Shaun Ellis, Kimo von Oelhoffen

NT: DeWayne Robertson

OLB: Bryon Thomas, Victor Hobson

ILB: Jonathon Vilma, Eric Barton

CB: Andre Dyson, Hank Poteat/Justin Miller

S: Kerry Rhodes, Erik Coleman

The DL was awful that year. Vilma and Barton were just mediocre, with neither having particularly good years. Thomas was terrific, especially in the middle of the season, and Hobson was also just mediocre. Rhodes and Coleman were very good, and the CBs weren't talented but seemed to all play above their heads. Dyson played very well, even though he generally stinks.

This defense ranked 6th in points allowed, largely because of some good scheming/coaching.

Here was the team in 2007:

DE: Shaun Ellis, Kenyon Coleman

NT: DeWayne Robertson

OLB: Bryon Thomas, Victor Hobson

ILB: Jonathon Vilma/David Harris, Eric Barton

CB: Darrelle Revis, Hank Poteat/David Barrett

S: Kerry Rhodes, Abram Elam/Erik Coleman/Eric Smith

The DL stunk again, as Ellis and Robertson seemed to be getting worse. Coleman was an improvement over Kimo, and David Bowens played well as a backup DE. Hobson and Bryan Thomas were terrible. The OLBs are the playmakers in your 3-4 set, and these guys totaled 4.5 sacks, 0 interceptions, and one forced fumble. Barton and Vilma did nothing, and seemed to regress from the '06 form, but David Harris was a monster once he replaced Vilma. Revis was awesome, the best CB the Jets have had in awhile while Poteat and Barrett were terrible. Rhodes played oustanding football, while Elam and the Eric(k)s were nothing special. Elam was the best of the bunch, though.

This unit ranked 19th in points allowed.

Fast forward to 2008.

DE: Shaun Ellis, Kenyon Coleman, David Bowens

NT: Kris Jenkins

OLB: Calvin Pace, Vernon Gholston

ILB: David Harris, Eric Barton

CB: Darrelle Revis, Dwight Lowery/David Barrett

S: Kerry Rhodes, Abram Elam/Eric Smith

All I can say is wow. Two years ago, this unit actually was top ten in points allowed with a bunch of nobodies. The Jets have six impact players on defense, and only one of them was on the 2006 team - Rhodes.

Rhodes - just a notch below Pro Bowl caliber safety. Easily one of the top safeties in the league, just under the Polamolu/Reed/Sanders group.

Revis - Probably the best player on the Jets team.

Harris - 75 solo tackles in 9 games started, 101 total tackles in 9 games started. He averaged more tackles per start than Patrick Willis. Also had 5 sacks and 2 forced fumbles in those nine starts. Stats tell the story here -- if you watched Harris, he was just dominant last season.

Gholston/Pace - obviously question marks with both of these guys. If things break right, they're Merriman/Phillips or Ellis/Ware. If things broke wrong, they're Victor Hobson/Bryan Thomas. Either way, both at least project to be impact players.

Jenkins - still has a bit left in the tank. Huge upgrade over Robertson. Just a monster in the middle is exactly what the Jets have needed. He's not going to be playing at his 2001/2002 level, but he's going to be an impact player at nose tackle. He's the big body you need, and has the potential to be a Jamal Williams, Vince Wilfork, Casey Hampton, Ted Washington type of player.

Ellis will continue to stink, but there's reason for optimism out of Bowens/Coleman at the other spot. In the secondary, some battle will take place, and hopefully Lowery ® and Elam impress in camp. Barton in the middle will continue to be meh.

But this Jets defense that played well with smoke and mirrors in 2006, and showed flashes in late 2007 (holding the explosive Patriots basically out of the end zone [one yard TD scored after a turnover was the only offensive TD] in the second meeting) now has some parts. Revis and Harris were great last year, but the biggest keys in the 3-4 are your NT and your OLBs. Williams/Merriman/Phillips. Hampton/Porter/Gildon-Haggans, Washington/McGinest/Vrabel. Wilfork-Colvin/Thomas/Vrabel, Gregg/Suggs/Thomas. The Jets now at least have the potential of having two great outside rushers like the Chargers and Cowboys. They've got the potential of a guy in the middle to let players like Harris roam free, like the Patriots and old Ravens. And they've got good support outside of those three, with two studs in the secondary.

I'm very excited about how this defense has been remade. With some good coaching -- like the great job in 2006, and the great run in the second half of 2007, especially at the end -- this can be a top defense.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Gholston: 6'3-6'4, 260-265, 4.56-4.58 40-yard dash

Pace: 6'4, 265-270, 4.65 40-yard dash

How these two guys play in '08 will go a long way towards seeing how far the Jets go.

 

[brednbuddah]

Harris - 75 solo tackles in 9 games started, 101 total tackles in 9 games started. He averaged more tackles per start than Patrick Willis. Also had 5 sacks and 2 forced fumbles in those nine starts. Stats tell the story here -- if you watched Harris, he was just dominant last season.

This guy will be a Pro-Bowler in 08. He was an absolute animal taking over for Vilmanice assessment. Jenkins is the key to getting this defense on track.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Harris - 75 solo tackles in 9 games started, 101 total tackles in 9 games started. He averaged more tackles per start than Patrick Willis. Also had 5 sacks and 2 forced fumbles in those nine starts. Stats tell the story here -- if you watched Harris, he was just dominant last season.

This guy will be a Pro-Bowler in 08. He was an absolute animal taking over for Vilmanice assessment. Jenkins is the key to getting this defense on track.

You need a good NT to make this D work. The Jets have potential but are INCREDIBLY young on defense. Every good defense needs a leader. Who will lead for the Jets? You prefer for it to be a LB but is Harris too young? Maybe Rhodes assumes that role much like Dawkins with Philly.

 

[LBH]

nice analysis. Agree on Jenkins. His transition from 4-3 DT to 3-4 NT is going to be huge. Im not sure what was more frustrating last season, watching us get killed on the ground or not getting pressure on the QB. The defense did play better over the 2nd half of the season though. Jenkins,Pace, and Gholston should(at least on paper) make this defense alot better. Making the moves to get Revis and Harris last year looks to have been outstanding. The Jets have a good young nucleus, especially if Gholston proves he was worth the pick.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Gholston will be one of the busts in the top 10 picks of 2008...IMHO. And I am not going to go thru every reason as you already know them and we are not going to convince each other to jump to the other side.

I thought the Jets blew both 1st round picks this season...badly.

Even with an improved defense, the Jets are playing for 1 of 2 wildcard playoff spots because of New England...they are not going to take the division.

They will be going toe to toe to make the playoffs agianst teams like Cleveland(Superior Offense), Pittsburgh(Better Team), Tennessee, Jax, there are a lot of good teams so I don't see anything for you to get real excited about.

 

[LBH]

Gholston will be one of the busts in the top 10 picks of 2008...IMHO. And I am not going to go thru every reason as you already know them and we are not going to convince each other to jump to the other side. I thought the Jets blew both 1st round picks this season...badly.Even with an improved defense, the Jets are playing for 1 of 2 wildcard playoff spots because of New England...they are not going to take the division. They will be going toe to toe to make the playoffs agianst teams like Cleveland(Superior Offense), Pittsburgh(Better Team), Tennessee, Jax, there are a lot of good teams so I don't see anything for you to get real excited about.

I disagree on the Jets blowing the picks. The Jets are extremely thin at reciever after Coles and Cotchery. Getting a big reciever that can play TE or WR and stretch the middle of the field should open things up for the WRs on the outside. I think they get a little more versatlity with Keller than they would have had they gone WR

 

[Chase Stuart]

Gholston will be one of the busts in the top 10 picks of 2008...IMHO. And I am not going to go thru every reason as you already know them and we are not going to convince each other to jump to the other side. I thought the Jets blew both 1st round picks this season...badly.Even with an improved defense, the Jets are playing for 1 of 2 wildcard playoff spots because of New England...they are not going to take the division. They will be going toe to toe to make the playoffs agianst teams like Cleveland(Superior Offense), Pittsburgh(Better Team), Tennessee, Jax, there are a lot of good teams so I don't see anything for you to get real excited about.

I don't think Tennessee or Pittsburgh are better than the Jets. Obviously there will be some surprises, but right now, I'd project the Jets and Jaguars to grab the two wildcard spots, with NWE/CLE/IND/SDG taking the divisions.

 

[Irish]

Gholston will be one of the busts in the top 10 picks of 2008...IMHO. And I am not going to go thru every reason as you already know them and we are not going to convince each other to jump to the other side. I thought the Jets blew both 1st round picks this season...badly.Even with an improved defense, the Jets are playing for 1 of 2 wildcard playoff spots because of New England...they are not going to take the division. They will be going toe to toe to make the playoffs agianst teams like Cleveland(Superior Offense), Pittsburgh(Better Team), Tennessee, Jax, there are a lot of good teams so I don't see anything for you to get real excited about.

I don't think Tennessee or Pittsburgh are better than the Jets. Obviously there will be some surprises, but right now, I'd project the Jets and Jaguars to grab the two wildcard spots, with NWE/CLE/IND/SDG taking the divisions.

I must have missed the offseason move by the Jets to get a qb? Who's starting at qb for the J-E-T-S?

 

[Mole]

Good assessment, I have a feeling we'll be seeing a nice rotation at NT, with Mosley and Pouha, which may end up being a good thing. Both played very well in the second half of last season and we can hope to continue and plug away.

Mangini was sure to mold this defense to what he wants, ridding himself of anything Herm left behind. However, if the jets open anything other than 3-3 or better, local media will be calling for his head.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Gholston will be one of the busts in the top 10 picks of 2008...IMHO. And I am not going to go thru every reason as you already know them and we are not going to convince each other to jump to the other side. I thought the Jets blew both 1st round picks this season...badly.Even with an improved defense, the Jets are playing for 1 of 2 wildcard playoff spots because of New England...they are not going to take the division. They will be going toe to toe to make the playoffs agianst teams like Cleveland(Superior Offense), Pittsburgh(Better Team), Tennessee, Jax, there are a lot of good teams so I don't see anything for you to get real excited about.

I don't think Tennessee or Pittsburgh are better than the Jets. Obviously there will be some surprises, but right now, I'd project the Jets and Jaguars to grab the two wildcard spots, with NWE/CLE/IND/SDG taking the divisions.

I must have missed the offseason move by the Jets to get a qb? Who's starting at qb for the J-E-T-S?

Tough to say right now.QB is a weak spot for the Jets, although I don't think it's any weaker than it is for Tennessee. And the Jets WRs, RBs, TEs and potentially OL are all better than the Titans', and the defense should be about as good. The Jets went out and made huge improvements to the OL and the defense in the off-season, so I don't think the QB is going to be asked to win games singlehandedly for them.The Steelers are trending down. That OL was bad last year and it's going to be worse this year. Mendenhall will help, though.

 

[BassNBrew]

Time to bring back Jets94 for some rational analysis.

 

[BassNBrew]

Harris - 75 solo tackles in 9 games started, 101 total tackles in 9 games started. He averaged more tackles per start than Patrick Willis. Also had 5 sacks and 2 forced fumbles in those nine starts. Stats tell the story here -- if you watched Harris, he was just dominant last season.

This guy will be a Pro-Bowler in 08. He was an absolute animal taking over for Vilmanice assessment. Jenkins is the key to getting this defense on track.

It will be interesting to see if he shows up at mini-camp and how fat he's become this off season.

 

[Englishteacher]

Harris - 75 solo tackles in 9 games started, 101 total tackles in 9 games started. He averaged more tackles per start than Patrick Willis. Also had 5 sacks and 2 forced fumbles in those nine starts. Stats tell the story here -- if you watched Harris, he was just dominant last season.

This guy will be a Pro-Bowler in 08. He was an absolute animal taking over for Vilmanice assessment. Jenkins is the key to getting this defense on track.

It will be interesting to see if he shows up at mini-camp and how fat he's become this off season.

Another Panthers fan here. Great player but a major ? mark every year the last several years. I'm not sure I would have handed him that big $ contract.

 

[Kiddnets]

Jets defense should be much improved - they finally have pieces that fit - last year they had a 4-3 defense masquerading as a 3-4 - this year it should come together. It will take time though - glad they have an early bye as the defense usually plays better after adjustments made at the bye.

Ellis was a great DE at one time - he has fallen but the potential is still there. If he returns to form it will really help. Revis and Harris were fantastic picks and will be cornerstones of the defense for years - Rhodes is a Pro Bowl DB right now IMO. Great ball hawk.

As for Gholston - the jury is out - I have fellow ticket holders crying to me how we blew the picks as well. I don't see it that way.

JEts need athletes with size, speed and playmaking ability - someone who gives opposing coaches fits preparing for - Just because Mamula was a flop doesn't mean Gholston will be - the kid has a TON of upside. He is a physical specimen - he just started playing football as a soph in HS- the kid is still learning the game. Mangini will whip him into shape and develop him into the key to the defense.

Is there bust potential - you bet - but there is a ton of upside. I see a bigger, faster, stronger, healthier John Abraham - a pass rusher that Jets have not had in years. They couldn't get near the QB last year - now with Jenkins clogging up the middle and this guy plus Pace flying around the corner - they should be able to finally generate the pass rush that was MIA for years.

Jets needed a pass rushing playmaker in the worst way - gholston has the raw skills - hes not a finished product - give it some time. You could be looking at a guy who finally keeps OCs up at night! I thought the right pick considering how the draft broke.

How about our new Dallas clark? Keller looks like a stud - I haven't seen a Jets TE catch the ball and run like that since.......ever! No more crappy Baker 5 yds and fall down play. This kid can take it to the house from all over the field, Very happy with that pick -

Throw in a ball hawk CB who has played Safety; a tall QB from a winning program; a tall WR who will be an immediate red zone threat and an OL who ripped open huge holes for DMC - I can't complain.

This is a rebuilt team ready to go in 2008 - problem is there is one glaring weakness and its a position that you cant have one - QB! They will be tempted to give the ball to Pennyboy to "manage" the new team - dont do it - give it to KC. Penny is done - when you can't throw an out its time to call it a day. Let KC throw some rockets when he actually gets a few seconds to set up and we'll be happy.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Gholston will be one of the busts in the top 10 picks of 2008...IMHO. And I am not going to go thru every reason as you already know them and we are not going to convince each other to jump to the other side. I thought the Jets blew both 1st round picks this season...badly.Even with an improved defense, the Jets are playing for 1 of 2 wildcard playoff spots because of New England...they are not going to take the division. They will be going toe to toe to make the playoffs agianst teams like Cleveland(Superior Offense), Pittsburgh(Better Team), Tennessee, Jax, there are a lot of good teams so I don't see anything for you to get real excited about.

I don't think Tennessee or Pittsburgh are better than the Jets. Obviously there will be some surprises, but right now, I'd project the Jets and Jaguars to grab the two wildcard spots, with NWE/CLE/IND/SDG taking the divisions.

I'll take Big Ben over the Jets all day long, and I think Vince Young is good enough to beat them too. Let's assume NE/CLE/INDY/SD...you have a list of teams including Pitt/Balt/Jax/Ten/Den...and possibly the Jets all trying to grab two playoff spots. Besides, New England is going to go 16-0 again.

 

[Kiddnets]

Gholston will be one of the busts in the top 10 picks of 2008...IMHO. And I am not going to go thru every reason as you already know them and we are not going to convince each other to jump to the other side. I thought the Jets blew both 1st round picks this season...badly.Even with an improved defense, the Jets are playing for 1 of 2 wildcard playoff spots because of New England...they are not going to take the division. They will be going toe to toe to make the playoffs agianst teams like Cleveland(Superior Offense), Pittsburgh(Better Team), Tennessee, Jax, there are a lot of good teams so I don't see anything for you to get real excited about.

I don't think Tennessee or Pittsburgh are better than the Jets. Obviously there will be some surprises, but right now, I'd project the Jets and Jaguars to grab the two wildcard spots, with NWE/CLE/IND/SDG taking the divisions.

I'll take Big Ben over the Jets all day long, and I think Vince Young is good enough to beat them too. Let's assume NE/CLE/INDY/SD...you have a list of teams including Pitt/Balt/Jax/Ten/Den...and possibly the Jets all trying to grab two playoff spots. Besides, New England is going to go 16-0 again.

Jets beat Pitt last year when they were a train wreck - I think you are correct in the JEts battling multiple teams for a WC spot next year - that is not a bad thing after last season's debacle. Assuming KC gets the QB job and he develops in 08 I think the Jets are finally a legit challenge to the PAts in 2009.

 

[Otis]

Gholston will be one of the busts in the top 10 picks of 2008...IMHO. And I am not going to go thru every reason as you already know them and we are not going to convince each other to jump to the other side. I thought the Jets blew both 1st round picks this season...badly.Even with an improved defense, the Jets are playing for 1 of 2 wildcard playoff spots because of New England...they are not going to take the division. They will be going toe to toe to make the playoffs agianst teams like Cleveland(Superior Offense), Pittsburgh(Better Team), Tennessee, Jax, there are a lot of good teams so I don't see anything for you to get real excited about.

I don't think Tennessee or Pittsburgh are better than the Jets. Obviously there will be some surprises, but right now, I'd project the Jets and Jaguars to grab the two wildcard spots, with NWE/CLE/IND/SDG taking the divisions.

I must have missed the offseason move by the Jets to get a qb? Who's starting at qb for the J-E-T-S?

Tough to say right now.QB is a weak spot for the Jets

This is exactly my problem with the Jets. It's a position they should have addressed in the draft several years ago, and by now they'd have a guy with some hits under his belt and who'd hopefully be ready for prime time. Instead they're still sitting around wondering who is going to lead the offense.Defensively things are looking great, no doubt, but you need an offense to move the chains and give the defense a blow (so they can remain effective through a full game), and that is going to make life difficult.Again, with a legitimate quarterback and passing game, I'd feel a lot more optimistic about the Jets right now. I'm baffled with the Keller pick over a QB or true WR.

 

[Reaper]

Gholston will be one of the busts in the top 10 picks of 2008...IMHO. And I am not going to go thru every reason as you already know them and we are not going to convince each other to jump to the other side.

I thought the Jets blew both 1st round picks this season...badly.

I disagree... Gholston is the guy I wanted and I'm glad it wasn't Mcfadden and I think Jake Long is a better RT..... I think the Jets hit lotto with Gholston falling since the DT's weren't good fits...Here's a good article from today talking about how it's pretty foolish to talk boaut guys "Taking Plays off" without knowing their responsibility and the problem with "Internet Scouts"....

Tressel Refutes Claims

As Ohio State coach Jim Tressel watched the NFL draft and the accompanying video of Vernon Gholston Saturday afternoon, he was a little bothered.

"You know, in all the highlights on Saturday, I never saw any of those plays where he carried Jake Long into the quarterback's lap," Tressel said in a telephone interview yesterday from Columbus.

Tressel wasn't besmirching Long, Michigan's All-American left tackle selected No. 1 overall by the Dolphins, and he was happy that his standout defensive end, who will play outside linebacker in his new team's 3-4 defense, was taken by the Jets.

Tressel has had several players do well with the Jets over the years, including Mike Nugent and Nick Mangold. But he was perplexed at some of the criticisms directed at Gholston before, during and after the draft. His primary objection was to the charge that Gholston took plays - and sometimes entire games - off.

The one highlight played consistently was of Gholston beating Long for a sack - the only one Long gave up all season - but Tressel said that wasn't the only play in which Gholston bettered Long. There just wasn't a sack to show for the other ones.

It was part of the larger point Tressel wanted to make: The reason Gholston's sack and tackle numbers fluctuated was that his role in Ohio State's 4-3 defense wasn't always the same. For example, Ohio State occasionally had the speedy Gholston drop into coverage.

"When you're a D-end who is sometimes a drop guy, there are going to be times where you're not going forward," said Tressel, who later in the interview said he didn't see any difficulties ahead for Gholston in the Jets' 3-4 defense. "There are times where you'll be in the scuffle and sometimes when you're out in your zone."

In explaining the disparate reports on Gholston - many glowing, many not so much - Jets general manager Mike Tannenbaum said in an interview yesterday that scouts don't always consider the factors Tressel mentioned.

"Scouting is very subjective," Tannenbaum said. "You don't necessarily know what a player's responsibility is on a given play, what the coach has him doing on a particular play. That's why scouting is an inexact science. We're very comfortable with Vernon. We feel the best days are ahead of him."

Tressel agreed, recalling the rapid development of Gholston, who arrived in Columbus having played only two years of high school football. He left the Buckeyes having recorded 22 1/2 sacks in his last two seasons, including a school-record 14 in 2007.

"I think his upside ... a lot of times you ask yourself, 'Is what we're getting a finished product or the tip of the iceberg?'" Tressel said. "I think this is the tip of the iceberg with Vernon, which is frightening."

 

[Jason Wood]

I knew Chase couldn't contain his excitement for long

As you suggested Chase, things have really changed in the last two seasons. Obviously the Jets are making very expensive bets on Calvin Pace and Vernon Gholston and their ability to play up to their contracts will be the difference between the return of Mangenius and a potential regime change in a season or two.

The good news is both guys are physical marvels and MASSIVELY better suited to play OLB in a 3-4. Your old OLBs couldn't put pressure on the QB; which basically removes a pretty darn big component of what makes a good 3-4 zone blitzing team work.

The bad news is both guys are risky, to an extent. Gholston is a rookie and Pace had one big year.

If I'm erring one way or another on this, I can't see how the Jets defense isn't going to wreck some havoc this year. Sure you need another solid CB and sure Jenkins is a risk; but the team is going to make a lot of disruptive plays (and probably give up some too).

Now as to the offense? I'm still not sure I'm seeing it...the QB issue is fairly significant, don't you think?

 

[KellysHeroes]

I believe JETS fan have one more yr of Chad... The Jets are going to play whoever is the better player, and that Chad until Kellen shows us something.

 

[Reaper]

Gholston will be one of the busts in the top 10 picks of 2008...IMHO. And I am not going to go thru every reason as you already know them and we are not going to convince each other to jump to the other side. I thought the Jets blew both 1st round picks this season...badly.Even with an improved defense, the Jets are playing for 1 of 2 wildcard playoff spots because of New England...they are not going to take the division. They will be going toe to toe to make the playoffs agianst teams like Cleveland(Superior Offense), Pittsburgh(Better Team), Tennessee, Jax, there are a lot of good teams so I don't see anything for you to get real excited about.

I don't think Tennessee or Pittsburgh are better than the Jets. Obviously there will be some surprises, but right now, I'd project the Jets and Jaguars to grab the two wildcard spots, with NWE/CLE/IND/SDG taking the divisions.

I must have missed the offseason move by the Jets to get a qb? Who's starting at qb for the J-E-T-S?

Tough to say right now.QB is a weak spot for the Jets

This is exactly my problem with the Jets. It's a position they should have addressed in the draft several years ago, and by now they'd have a guy with some hits under his belt and who'd hopefully be ready for prime time. Instead they're still sitting around wondering who is going to lead the offense.Defensively things are looking great, no doubt, but you need an offense to move the chains and give the defense a blow (so they can remain effective through a full game), and that is going to make life difficult.Again, with a legitimate quarterback and passing game, I'd feel a lot more optimistic about the Jets right now. I'm baffled with the Keller pick over a QB or true WR.

The Pats have drafted a lot at the TE spot - It's a spot they want a weapon at and with the WR's in this draft I think they felt all around that this guy is the taller weapon they wanted and he can line up at WR... Guy is a monster.The QB spot is a weakness and we shall see - You can't fill all the holes but, i think thye have come a long way - If you don't have a QB this year basically you get one next year - probably a FA.... You also continue to build depth and fill the holes - I think we're seeing the foundations of one a team that is going to make a run in the next few years... Yeah, they need that QB though.I didn't want Ryan... I kinda liked Henne but, he's a project as well... so....At WR they also have Stuckey from last year... Maybe they are much higher on him than we know?Sounds like Chad is going to be the guy, they will play real good defense, run the ball and use play action... When things are rolling I'm sure they will mix it up on offense and go back to the hurry up when needed.... With last year's OL, I don't think we saw anything that the offense can do - Jones is a bigger weapon, Leon is abigger weapon.. The new TE and the WRs are fine.

 

[Reaper]

I also predict we are going to see A LOT of Dwight Lowery in the secondary in the near future... At Safety and maybe CB... Guy had a bad hammy at the combine and is a Ball hawk. He eats Breathes and sleeps FOOTBALL...

The knock on him was that he fell off his Srt year on INTs - but, teams didn't throw to him anymore....

I posted a long message from his Trainer in the IDP forum...

 

[rufan]

This is exactly my problem with the Jets. It's a position they should have addressed in the draft several years ago, and by now they'd have a guy with some hits under his belt and who'd hopefully be ready for prime time. Instead they're still sitting around wondering who is going to lead the offense.

Umm, the Jets addressed the QB position by drafting Kellen Clemens in the second round in 2006. Lets give him a chance with an improved O-Line to see what he can do.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Gholston will be one of the busts in the top 10 picks of 2008...IMHO. And I am not going to go thru every reason as you already know them and we are not going to convince each other to jump to the other side. I thought the Jets blew both 1st round picks this season...badly.Even with an improved defense, the Jets are playing for 1 of 2 wildcard playoff spots because of New England...they are not going to take the division. They will be going toe to toe to make the playoffs agianst teams like Cleveland(Superior Offense), Pittsburgh(Better Team), Tennessee, Jax, there are a lot of good teams so I don't see anything for you to get real excited about.

I don't think Tennessee or Pittsburgh are better than the Jets. Obviously there will be some surprises, but right now, I'd project the Jets and Jaguars to grab the two wildcard spots, with NWE/CLE/IND/SDG taking the divisions.

I must have missed the offseason move by the Jets to get a qb? Who's starting at qb for the J-E-T-S?

Tough to say right now.QB is a weak spot for the Jets

This is exactly my problem with the Jets. It's a position they should have addressed in the draft several years ago, and by now they'd have a guy with some hits under his belt and who'd hopefully be ready for prime time. Instead they're still sitting around wondering who is going to lead the offense.Defensively things are looking great, no doubt, but you need an offense to move the chains and give the defense a blow (so they can remain effective through a full game), and that is going to make life difficult.Again, with a legitimate quarterback and passing game, I'd feel a lot more optimistic about the Jets right now. I'm baffled with the Keller pick over a QB or true WR.

You know, that sounds good to say the Jets should have drafted a QB several years ago, and now they'd have a good QB. But the facts don't bear that out.Look at the five drafts from 2003-2007. What could the Jets have done?I don't think the Jets would be better off if they had Leinart instead of D'Brick, or Brady Quinn instead of Darrelle Revis. Outside of Derek Anderson and Jay Cutler (which I don't think is fair, since most teams would have taken Leinart over Cutler), there's not a QB that the Jets could have drafted in '05, '06, or '07 that has had any measure of success. And I don't think Anderson is a fair player to blame the Jets for missing.In '04 you had Schaub and Losman as the best QBs available by the time the Jets had their first pick. Neither are very impressive.In '03, only one QB has been worth anything, and that was the #1 pick.QBs don't grow on trees.Clemens was a second round pick. I'm not sure why Brohm or Henne would have made you happy. Pennington isn't bad.

 

[Chase Stuart]

I knew Chase couldn't contain his excitement for long As you suggested Chase, things have really changed in the last two seasons. Obviously the Jets are making very expensive bets on Calvin Pace and Vernon Gholston and their ability to play up to their contracts will be the difference between the return of Mangenius and a potential regime change in a season or two.The good news is both guys are physical marvels and MASSIVELY better suited to play OLB in a 3-4. Your old OLBs couldn't put pressure on the QB; which basically removes a pretty darn big component of what makes a good 3-4 zone blitzing team work. The bad news is both guys are risky, to an extent. Gholston is a rookie and Pace had one big year.If I'm erring one way or another on this, I can't see how the Jets defense isn't going to wreck some havoc this year. Sure you need another solid CB and sure Jenkins is a risk; but the team is going to make a lot of disruptive plays (and probably give up some too).Now as to the offense? I'm still not sure I'm seeing it...the QB issue is fairly significant, don't you think?

Yeah, I really expect the defense to carry the team this year. It's amazing to me the overhaul in just 13 months.The offense has added Faneca, Woody, Tony Richardson and Bubba Franks. Then in the draft they picked up a speedy TE and a tall WR. Cotchery/Coles are good, and I think someone out of Brad Smith/Stuckey/Marcus Henry will emerge. It's easy to forget this, but Brad Smith is entering just his third season, and he played no WR in college. I don't think he's come close to realizing his potential, and obviously Stuckey/Henry are just beginning their careers. All in all, I think WR is going to be a position of strength, and Franks/Baker/Keller is going to provide nice flexibility. A pass catching TE, an all around TE, and a blocking TE.Washington is terrific, and Jones is a capable RB1. I think that combination will do well behind a much improved line and with the addition of Richardson. Jones especially should be helped by that.QB is the weak spot, but with so many guys around capable of making plays, I think Pennington or Clemens won't sink the offense. Pennington wasn't great last year, but he wasn't as bad as people suggest. His arm looks weak and if it deteriorates from last year, that's a problem. His lack of arm strength last year was disturbing -- I wonder if there was an undisclosed injury or something. Either way, it's hard to predict whether his arm strength will be below average, bad, or awful. If it's just below average, the offense will be fine because of Pennington's other attributes. And it's not fair to write much of a book on Clemens just yet.

 

[LBH]

This is exactly my problem with the Jets. It's a position they should have addressed in the draft several years ago, and by now they'd have a guy with some hits under his belt and who'd hopefully be ready for prime time. Instead they're still sitting around wondering who is going to lead the offense.

Umm, the Jets addressed the QB position by drafting Kellen Clemens in the second round in 2006. Lets give him a chance with an improved O-Line to see what he can do.

I agree. The Jets OL was a disaster, and the WRs were banged up when Clemens was starting. I was encouraged by the things I saw from him against Baltimore,Pitt, and Washington. I think way too many Jet fans are slamming the door on him too early.

 

[Chase Stuart]

This is exactly my problem with the Jets. It's a position they should have addressed in the draft several years ago, and by now they'd have a guy with some hits under his belt and who'd hopefully be ready for prime time. Instead they're still sitting around wondering who is going to lead the offense.

Umm, the Jets addressed the QB position by drafting Kellen Clemens in the second round in 2006. Lets give him a chance with an improved O-Line to see what he can do.

I agree. The Jets OL was a disaster, and the WRs were banged up when Clemens was starting. I was encouraged by the things I saw from him against Baltimore,Pitt, and Washington. I think way too many Jet fans are slamming the door on him too early.

Really?The first play of the game was a 56 yard flea flicker to Coles, who was tackled at the one. The next pass was a one yard TD pass to Baker.

After that, Clemens went 12/29 for 105 yards with an interception. I thought Clemens played terribly that game.

 

[LBH]

This is exactly my problem with the Jets. It's a position they should have addressed in the draft several years ago, and by now they'd have a guy with some hits under his belt and who'd hopefully be ready for prime time. Instead they're still sitting around wondering who is going to lead the offense.

Umm, the Jets addressed the QB position by drafting Kellen Clemens in the second round in 2006. Lets give him a chance with an improved O-Line to see what he can do.

I agree. The Jets OL was a disaster, and the WRs were banged up when Clemens was starting. I was encouraged by the things I saw from him against Baltimore,Pitt, and Washington. I think way too many Jet fans are slamming the door on him too early.

Really?The first play of the game was a 56 yard flea flicker to Coles, who was tackled at the one. The next pass was a one yard TD pass to Baker.

After that, Clemens went 12/29 for 105 yards with an interception. I thought Clemens played terribly that game.

the guy was pretty much a rookie who got thrown into a bad offense half way through the season. Yeah his numbers werent great in that game but I thought he made some big plays late in the 4th quarter with the game on the line. Id much rather start the season with Clemens. If he struggles then we have a nice back up and capable game managing QB in Pennington to step in.

 

[Righetti]

I am far from sold on Clemens and would have liked the Jets to go after Brohm. Seems that drafting a TE who on his best day might be Dallas Clarke might have been too much of a reach for me.. I wanted Gholston also and was happy when the Jets got him but I think he is far from a sure-thing.

 

[Reaper]

This is exactly my problem with the Jets. It's a position they should have addressed in the draft several years ago, and by now they'd have a guy with some hits under his belt and who'd hopefully be ready for prime time. Instead they're still sitting around wondering who is going to lead the offense.

Umm, the Jets addressed the QB position by drafting Kellen Clemens in the second round in 2006. Lets give him a chance with an improved O-Line to see what he can do.

I agree. The Jets OL was a disaster, and the WRs were banged up when Clemens was starting. I was encouraged by the things I saw from him against Baltimore,Pitt, and Washington. I think way too many Jet fans are slamming the door on him too early.

Really?The first play of the game was a 56 yard flea flicker to Coles, who was tackled at the one. The next pass was a one yard TD pass to Baker.

After that, Clemens went 12/29 for 105 yards with an interception. I thought Clemens played terribly that game.

the guy was pretty much a rookie who got thrown into a bad offense half way through the season. Yeah his numbers werent great in that game but I thought he made some big plays late in the 4th quarter with the game on the line. Id much rather start the season with Clemens. If he struggles then we have a nice back up and capable game managing QB in Pennington to step in.

I'm mixed - I don't think Chase gives him any credit - I remember last year Chase was maybe the last person standing ready to put Chad on the bench when it was certainly time to see what Clemens could do.I think there were a ton of dropped balls - a few plays where Clemens avoided the rush and made the play but the guy on the other end missed it - wether that was Mccareins or "possibly" someone else - I think even Coles had off days - one play in particular Clemens threw a dart that would have been a TD....

Then Coles went down - so he had no OL, no running game and 1 WR.

I kinda feel like they want Chad's smarts to run a lot of trickery more like they did in 06' that they couldn't do in 07'........ Lots of play action - some hurry up... But, I think Clemens has A LOT more to show.....

 

[Otis]

Gholston will be one of the busts in the top 10 picks of 2008...IMHO. And I am not going to go thru every reason as you already know them and we are not going to convince each other to jump to the other side. I thought the Jets blew both 1st round picks this season...badly.Even with an improved defense, the Jets are playing for 1 of 2 wildcard playoff spots because of New England...they are not going to take the division. They will be going toe to toe to make the playoffs agianst teams like Cleveland(Superior Offense), Pittsburgh(Better Team), Tennessee, Jax, there are a lot of good teams so I don't see anything for you to get real excited about.

I don't think Tennessee or Pittsburgh are better than the Jets. Obviously there will be some surprises, but right now, I'd project the Jets and Jaguars to grab the two wildcard spots, with NWE/CLE/IND/SDG taking the divisions.

I must have missed the offseason move by the Jets to get a qb? Who's starting at qb for the J-E-T-S?

Tough to say right now.QB is a weak spot for the Jets

This is exactly my problem with the Jets. It's a position they should have addressed in the draft several years ago, and by now they'd have a guy with some hits under his belt and who'd hopefully be ready for prime time. Instead they're still sitting around wondering who is going to lead the offense.Defensively things are looking great, no doubt, but you need an offense to move the chains and give the defense a blow (so they can remain effective through a full game), and that is going to make life difficult.Again, with a legitimate quarterback and passing game, I'd feel a lot more optimistic about the Jets right now. I'm baffled with the Keller pick over a QB or true WR.

You know, that sounds good to say the Jets should have drafted a QB several years ago, and now they'd have a good QB. But the facts don't bear that out.Look at the five drafts from 2003-2007. What could the Jets have done?I don't think the Jets would be better off if they had Leinart instead of D'Brick, or Brady Quinn instead of Darrelle Revis. Outside of Derek Anderson and Jay Cutler (which I don't think is fair, since most teams would have taken Leinart over Cutler), there's not a QB that the Jets could have drafted in '05, '06, or '07 that has had any measure of success. And I don't think Anderson is a fair player to blame the Jets for missing.In '04 you had Schaub and Losman as the best QBs available by the time the Jets had their first pick. Neither are very impressive.In '03, only one QB has been worth anything, and that was the #1 pick.QBs don't grow on trees.Clemens was a second round pick. I'm not sure why Brohm or Henne would have made you happy. Pennington isn't bad.

X

 

[Reaper]

Did Otis see the Youtube of the new TE....

 

[Otis]

I am far from sold on Clemens and would have liked the Jets to go after Brohm. Seems that drafting a TE who on his best day might be Dallas Clarke might have been too much of a reach for me.. I wanted Gholston also and was happy when the Jets got him but I think he is far from a sure-thing.

100% on board here. If they go for Brohm with that second pick, I'm loving the draft for them. Unless he will be as involved as a Witten/Gates/TonyG, I don't see the value in a TE at that point. Fix your one glaring weakness and move on with it.

 

[Righetti]

Did Otis see the Youtube of the new TE....

during the draft and in some of the NY papers have compared him to Dallas Clark. Then I see these highlights and get .A TE in the first round for the Jets in recent history usually leads to a big

 

[Reaper]

Did Otis see the Youtube of the new TE....

That Video is of NO Anthony Becht or Kyle Brady....

Forget the TE label - He's a Tall / Fast TARGET..... And yeah, Schott is used to working with Gates.

A lot of people want to point to the Jets history and draft history - as in "ooof another Jet TE!!!" Personally I give these guys a ton more credit than maybe anyone in charge of the Jets draft ever - Parcells drafts left something to be desired and Even though Brick isn't the 2nd coming, he was a decent choice... Last year was an absolute home run... Only the Schlegel pick was a waste.

These guys have a blank slate as far as the draft goes IMO and so far have been damn good.

On and on prospects talk about how prepared and thorough the Jets staff was in interviews...

I've been known as a typical Jets fan "Darksider" over the years - I'm pretty psyched about what they are building right now though. It makes sense to me and after Herm and Co. it feels 1000x better than the #### they threw against the wall changing systems at will - Seems like this FO takes a lot of heat for the inadequacies of Herm and Co. and were never given the clean slate - Maybe the surprise year of 06' set the bar too high But, this is Year 3 in pretty much a complete overhaul from what Herm left us. - The defense is almost set -DAMN!!!! already. and the offense needs to find it's QB.... Keep filling the lines and I like it!!!

 

[sheerterror]

Gholston will be one of the busts in the top 10 picks of 2008...IMHO. And I am not going to go thru every reason as you already know them and we are not going to convince each other to jump to the other side.

I thought the Jets blew both 1st round picks this season...badly.

Even with an improved defense, the Jets are playing for 1 of 2 wildcard playoff spots because of New England...they are not going to take the division.

They will be going toe to toe to make the playoffs agianst teams like Cleveland(Superior Offense), Pittsburgh(Better Team), Tennessee, Jax, there are a lot of good teams so I don't see anything for you to get real excited about.

I don't think Tennessee or Pittsburgh are better than the Jets. Obviously there will be some surprises, but right now, I'd project the Jets and Jaguars to grab the two wildcard spots, with NWE/CLE/IND/SDG taking the divisions.

I must have missed the offseason move by the Jets to get a qb? Who's starting at qb for the J-E-T-S?

Tough to say right now.QB is a weak spot for the Jets

This is exactly my problem with the Jets. It's a position they should have addressed in the draft several years ago, and by now they'd have a guy with some hits under his belt and who'd hopefully be ready for prime time. Instead they're still sitting around wondering who is going to lead the offense.Defensively things are looking great, no doubt, but you need an offense to move the chains and give the defense a blow (so they can remain effective through a full game), and that is going to make life difficult.

Again, with a legitimate quarterback and passing game, I'd feel a lot more optimistic about the Jets right now.

I'm baffled with the Keller pick over a QB or true WR.

The Pats have drafted a lot at the TE spot - It's a spot they want a weapon at and with the WR's in this draft I think they felt all around that this guy is the taller weapon they wanted and he can line up at WR... Guy is a monster.The QB spot is a weakness and we shall see - You can't fill all the holes but, i think thye have come a long way - If you don't have a QB this year basically you get one next year - probably a FA.... You also continue to build depth and fill the holes - I think we're seeing the foundations of one a team that is going to make a run in the next few years... Yeah, they need that QB though.

I didn't want Ryan... I kinda liked Henne but, he's a project as well... so....

At WR they also have Stuckey from last year... Maybe they are much higher on him than we know?

Sounds like Chad is going to be the guy, they will play real good defense, run the ball and use play action... When things are rolling I'm sure they will mix it up on offense and go back to the hurry up when needed....

With last year's OL, I don't think we saw anything that the offense can do - Jones is a bigger weapon, Leon is abigger weapon.. The new TE and the WRs are fine.

This, to me, is the most important factor. Every seemed to forget just how bad the offensive line was last year. It was easier to say "Ferguson is a bust" "Mangold regressed" "Clemens will never be a factor for this team" "the receivers can't get open" "Jones is washed up" etc., etc. The offense gets a mulligan for last year as far as I'm concerned - because how could we possibly judge what Clemens is capable of when he had a defender in his face within 2 seconds after every snap. Let's see how the offense performs with more capable players at LG and RT, how Jones and Washington perform with actual holes to run through, how Clemens, Cotchery and Coles perform when there is time to throw the ball. Having made what looks to be major improvements to the offensive line [on paper] I think we will see what the offense is actually capable of. No one is expecting this to become the Colts or the Patriots, but I don't see how, with the players there are on that side of the ball, this isn't a unit that can keep the chains moving and put up some points - allowing the strength of the team, the defense, to take care of the rest.

 

[TLEF316]

Clemens isn't a bust yet. The guy had the worst LG and RT in the league starting along side 2 second year guys and Brandon Moore(who is average at best) Coles was hurt. He would have beaten the Ravens in week 2 were it not for Justin Stone Hands McCariens (good riddance)

The defense is rebuilt and the offense has potential (15+ touches per game for leon please). I'm expecting 8-8 or 9-7. Things break right, and we could be a playoff team. I have no doubt that we can play with, and beat the other fringe WC contenders (titans, Steelers, broncos)

 

[Chase Stuart]

Clemens isn't a bust yet. The guy had the worst LG and RT in the league starting along side 2 second year guys and Brandon Moore(who is average at best) Coles was hurt. He would have beaten the Ravens in week 2 were it not for Justin Stone Hands McCariens (good riddance)

Not to pick on you, but I see this all the time when hearing about Clemens.DID ANYONE WATCH THE RAVENS LAST YEAR?

The Ravens won THREE other games besides the Jets game and a meaningless week 17 game against Pittsburgh who didn't have Roethlisberger or Parker. The Ravens beat the Rams, the Cardinals and the 49ers. And they beat the Cardinals and 49ers by 3 and 2 points.

The Ravens were one of the worst teams in the NFL last year. The Ravens were god-awful, and their pass-defense was one of the worst in the league. Why is "almost beating the Ravens" looked at as anything positive?

The Ravens went 3-11 outside of the Jets game and the meaningless week 17 game, beating three bad NFC West teams.

The Jets should have beaten the Ravens last year. The Ravens stunk.

 

[Otis]

Did Otis see the Youtube of the new TE....

That highlight video doesn't even have me floored. Yeah, he looks pretty athletic at college game speed. I guess if he ends up having the impact of a Kellen Winslow, and it helps the passing game that much, then it's worthwhile. God knows Chad will need a checkdown guy the instant his WRs get out of range...

 

[Chase Stuart]

This is exactly my problem with the Jets. It's a position they should have addressed in the draft several years ago, and by now they'd have a guy with some hits under his belt and who'd hopefully be ready for prime time. Instead they're still sitting around wondering who is going to lead the offense.

Umm, the Jets addressed the QB position by drafting Kellen Clemens in the second round in 2006. Lets give him a chance with an improved O-Line to see what he can do.

I agree. The Jets OL was a disaster, and the WRs were banged up when Clemens was starting. I was encouraged by the things I saw from him against Baltimore,Pitt, and Washington. I think way too many Jet fans are slamming the door on him too early.

Really?The first play of the game was a 56 yard flea flicker to Coles, who was tackled at the one. The next pass was a one yard TD pass to Baker.

After that, Clemens went 12/29 for 105 yards with an interception. I thought Clemens played terribly that game.

the guy was pretty much a rookie who got thrown into a bad offense half way through the season. Yeah his numbers werent great in that game but I thought he made some big plays late in the 4th quarter with the game on the line. Id much rather start the season with Clemens. If he struggles then we have a nice back up and capable game managing QB in Pennington to step in.

I'm mixed - I don't think Chase gives him any credit - I remember last year Chase was maybe the last person standing ready to put Chad on the bench when it was certainly time to see what Clemens could do.I think there were a ton of dropped balls - a few plays where Clemens avoided the rush and made the play but the guy on the other end missed it - wether that was Mccareins or "possibly" someone else - I think even Coles had off days - one play in particular Clemens threw a dart that would have been a TD....

Then Coles went down - so he had no OL, no running game and 1 WR.

I kinda feel like they want Chad's smarts to run a lot of trickery more like they did in 06' that they couldn't do in 07'........ Lots of play action - some hurry up... But, I think Clemens has A LOT more to show.....

Clemens didn't show much last year, that's why I don't give him credit. If you want to say he was a second year player and inexperienced, and that's why he didn't show much, that's fine. But that's a different argument. Pennington was a lot better than Clemens last year. He averaged 0.7 more yards per pass attempt, had twice as many TDs, and had fewer INTs. Pennington's poor play last year has been greatly exaggerated. He was meh, but he wasn't bad. The offensive line was terrible and the play calling was poor. Those things made Pennington look a lot worse, but he still put up respectable numbers. The Jets were in every game with Pennington, against a not so easy schedule. If Pennington started the second game against the Patriots, they might have been 17-2*.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Pennington against the Patriots, 2006-2007: 66% completion rate, 6.41 Y/A, 5 TD/2 INT

Rest of NFL against New England, 2006-07: 57% completion rate, 6.6 Y/A, 28 TD/39 INT

And Pennington was the last QB to beat New England in Foxboro.

 

[Righetti]

think this whole discussion comes down to the Jets as a mis-managed organization, I've been saying this for a while but the Jets have gone through 4 head coaches since Kotite in the last 10 seasons (Bill, Groh, Herm, Mangini).

They have had four different people running the organization. (Steinberg, Parcells, Bradway and Tannenbaum) not to mention two owner groups.

What happens in this case is that you are constantly changing your offensive and defensive schemes, you are drafting a certain type of player and then two years later moving from the 4-3 to the 3-4 where the players you drafted to play in that system (Robertson, Vilma etc) don't work in that scheme.

Look at teams that are successful over long periods of time, they have stability at the top, they know what kind of team they want to be, if they are a defensive/running team they stay that way and they adjust schemes based on the strengths of their roster. The Jets continue to try to shove round pegs in square holes.

I'm sure that Mangini and Tannenbaum will be gone in a few years and then their will be a new defensive scheme and guys you are drafting now to play rushing OLB will not work in this system.

plus the jets suck at drafting TE's in the first round

 

[LBH]

I like Pennington and think hes a pretty smart game managing QB but I have to hold my breath every time he throws an out pattern because the ball hangs just enough to be picked off or get the wr killed. He might be the best QB the Jets have ever had outside of Namath, but I think his best days are behind him. His weak arm really limits the passing game imo. If we have to roll with Pennington Im fine with that, but Id much rather see more of Clemmens first. I mean we spent a 2nd rd pick on the guy and hes had a half season with a poor offense around him. I think all Jets fans know what the Jets have in Pennington and its not bad, but if a team makes a pretty high investment in a QB, I think he deserves more than a half a season to show what hes got. Mangini says there will be a quarterback competition in training camp, but I see this "competition" being heavily weighted in Clemens favor. Mangini/Tannambaum want to go in to the 09 draft with an idea of what they have in Clemens and I think its going to take more than half of 07, and some preseason games to really know what that is.

 

[Chase Stuart]

think this whole discussion comes down to the Jets as a mis-managed organization, I've been saying this for a while but the Jets have gone through 4 head coaches since Kotite in the last 10 seasons (Bill, Groh, Herm, Mangini).They have had four different people running the organization. (Steinberg, Parcells, Bradway and Tannenbaum) not to mention two owner groups. What happens in this case is that you are constantly changing your offensive and defensive schemes, you are drafting a certain type of player and then two years later moving from the 4-3 to the 3-4 where the players you drafted to play in that system (Robertson, Vilma etc) don't work in that scheme. Look at teams that are successful over long periods of time, they have stability at the top, they know what kind of team they want to be, if they are a defensive/running team they stay that way and they adjust schemes based on the strengths of their roster. The Jets continue to try to shove round pegs in square holes. I'm sure that Mangini and Tannenbaum will be gone in a few years and then their will be a new defensive scheme and guys you are drafting now to play rushing OLB will not work in this system. plus the jets suck at drafting TE's in the first round

I think you're confusing causation with correlation here, to the extent that you're saying the Jets (whoever that entity means) have messed up.Yes, if you have a great coach and a great GM, you keep them. That seems pretty obvious.If you have a bad coach or a bad GM, you get rid of them. That seems obvious too.You don't keep bad coaches just because continuity is good.Parcells left because he "retired". Groh was really just an extension of Parcells, but he didn't want to be in the NFL anymore.Herm was let go because he wasn't a great coach. Now they've got Mangini, who has the potential to be a great coach. And the Jets seem on the right track now to having a coach and GM that will hang around for a long time.

 

[LBH]

I'm sure that Mangini and Tannenbaum will be gone in a few years and then their will be a new defensive scheme and guys you are drafting now to play rushing OLB will not work in this system.plus the jets suck at drafting TE's in the first round

You cant judge the Jets selection of a TE because of previous busts. Its a new FO and its a different player. Also Keller is more WR than TE, and from everything Ive read he has a good head on his shoulders which is more than I can say for J.Mitchell who keller most resembles as far as previous Jet TEs. Also I think Mangini will be around a long time. Ive been following the Jets since Todd was QB, and I really believe this is the best management weve had since Ive been following them. I think Mangini is a smart coach and is here to stay

 

[Righetti]

Chase,

My point is not about with causation or correlation, my point is that the Jets as an entity have changed their team philosophy too often in the last 10+ years..

Changes from head-coaches is not my issue as much as constant philosophical changes and how that affects your draft

 

[Chase Stuart]

Chase, My point is not about with causation or correlation, my point is that the Jets as an entity have changed their team philosophy too often in the last 10+ years..Changes from head-coaches is not my issue as much as constant philosophical changes and how that affects your draft

The Jets changed their team philosophy because their coach and GM retired, and then their replacement coach and GM stunk after four years, and the best available replacements had very different philosophies.

 

[Righetti]

Chase, My point is not about with causation or correlation, my point is that the Jets as an entity have changed their team philosophy too often in the last 10+ years..Changes from head-coaches is not my issue as much as constant philosophical changes and how that affects your draft

The Jets changed their team philosophy because their coach and GM retired, and then their replacement coach and GM stunk after four years, and the best available replacements had very different philosophies.

sadly this is a long term team philosophical epidemic which goes way beyond the last two or three coaching staffs, I don't have to tell you about the regimes pre-Parcells.

 

[Reaper]

This is exactly my problem with the Jets. It's a position they should have addressed in the draft several years ago, and by now they'd have a guy with some hits under his belt and who'd hopefully be ready for prime time. Instead they're still sitting around wondering who is going to lead the offense.

Umm, the Jets addressed the QB position by drafting Kellen Clemens in the second round in 2006. Lets give him a chance with an improved O-Line to see what he can do.

I agree. The Jets OL was a disaster, and the WRs were banged up when Clemens was starting. I was encouraged by the things I saw from him against Baltimore,Pitt, and Washington. I think way too many Jet fans are slamming the door on him too early.

Really?The first play of the game was a 56 yard flea flicker to Coles, who was tackled at the one. The next pass was a one yard TD pass to Baker.

After that, Clemens went 12/29 for 105 yards with an interception. I thought Clemens played terribly that game.

the guy was pretty much a rookie who got thrown into a bad offense half way through the season. Yeah his numbers werent great in that game but I thought he made some big plays late in the 4th quarter with the game on the line. Id much rather start the season with Clemens. If he struggles then we have a nice back up and capable game managing QB in Pennington to step in.

I'm mixed - I don't think Chase gives him any credit - I remember last year Chase was maybe the last person standing ready to put Chad on the bench when it was certainly time to see what Clemens could do.I think there were a ton of dropped balls - a few plays where Clemens avoided the rush and made the play but the guy on the other end missed it - wether that was Mccareins or "possibly" someone else - I think even Coles had off days - one play in particular Clemens threw a dart that would have been a TD....

Then Coles went down - so he had no OL, no running game and 1 WR.

I kinda feel like they want Chad's smarts to run a lot of trickery more like they did in 06' that they couldn't do in 07'........ Lots of play action - some hurry up... But, I think Clemens has A LOT more to show.....

Clemens didn't show much last year, that's why I don't give him credit. If you want to say he was a second year player and inexperienced, and that's why he didn't show much, that's fine. But that's a different argument. Pennington was a lot better than Clemens last year. He averaged 0.7 more yards per pass attempt, had twice as many TDs, and had fewer INTs. Pennington's poor play last year has been greatly exaggerated. He was meh, but he wasn't bad. The offensive line was terrible and the play calling was poor. Those things made Pennington look a lot worse, but he still put up respectable numbers. The Jets were in every game with Pennington, against a not so easy schedule. If Pennington started the second game against the Patriots, they might have been 17-2*.

Pennington threw KILLER Interceptions at the end of a few winnable games that were hardly anyone's fault but his own....I believe Pennington also had a healthy Coles more - Not sure on those splits or when he was injured but, that had to lean heavily his way Vs Clemens.

The thing that hurt last year so much with Chad was that his little dink and dunk game actually had them in some games but he lost it at the end with STUPID decisions with little else to blame but himself - and that was his biggest strength in the past.....

From the Game Summeries:

Buffalo:

However, his arm sometimes puts his receivers in less than ideal positions. Pennington threw two costly interceptions. The second one came with six seconds left and with the Jets threatening to get into position for a tying field goal. Pennington's pass attempt to Justin McCareins fluttered like a wounded duck before Terrence McGee plucked it out of the air and sealed the Jets' fate.

Week 5 at NYG - Pennington struggled to make good decisions as he turned the ball over three times through the air, all resulting in points for the New York Giants. He completed 21 of 36 passes for 229 yards and a score. His lone touchdown toss was a pretty fade route to Brad Smith in the corner of the end zone, which resulted in the Jets only offensive touchdown for the day. Going into the end zone to start the fourth quarter Chad Pennington went back to the fade route, targeting Jericho Cotchery in double coverage and turning the ball over at the one yard line.

Week 6 vs PHI - Pennington had poor performance under center and did not seem comfortable. He was under throwing receivers terribly and was proven time and time again that he was unable to go deep with any effectiveness. He completed 11 of his 21 passes for 128 yards and threw an interception on a deep route intended for Brad Smith. Pennington's arm strength is continuously being challenged by opposing defenses, and at the current moment, he has not been able to be successful throwing down field.

Week 7 at CIN - Pennington started off the game sizzling, but had another rough fourth quarter. He fumbled a snap and threw a game changing interception that was returned for a touchdown. He threw too many out patterns and finally a Cincinnati corner jumped the route.