What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

P. Manning or T. Brady (1 Viewer)

P. Manning vs. T. Brady

  • P. Manning

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • T. Brady

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

Noahs Troopers

Footballguy
If you were an NFL GM and could have your choice of starting your franchise with Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, which quarterback would you choose?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Brady. Aside from being polar opposites when it comes to coming through when it counts, Brady has a far more cap-friendly contract.

 
If they're being paid the same salary, I'd take Manning in a heartbeat.

(edit for insertion of word)

 
Last edited by a moderator:
You asked a question, I gave you an answer.

I think he'd have won a Super Bowl by now if he had an actual play-off defense behind him.
This years Colts D wasnt a playoff D? Anyway, I voted Brady. I love the way this guy can adapt to a gameplan, move in the pocket, keep his cool in the tightest of situations, lead his team and oh, he can make any throw on the field as well. :thumbup:

 
Brady. Aside from being polar opposites when it comes to coming through when it counts, Brady has a far more cap-friendly contract.
Is this really true?I'm looking at the contract numbers (Brady and Manning) ... certainly doesn't seem like a big difference the next several years.

I don't know what signing bonuses they got, but it seems clear that Manning will restructure his deal by 2008 anyway.

 
You asked a question, I gave you an answer. 

I think he'd have won a Super Bowl by now if he had an actual play-off defense behind him.
This years Colts D wasnt a playoff D?
They were great when Peyton gave them a 10-point cushion and other teams had to abandon the run. But they're pretty much screwed if Manning doesn't drop 30 points on the opposing defense. Do you think Brady would have won those Colts/Patriots match-ups if their roles were reversed?
Anyway, I voted Brady. I love the way this guy can adapt to a gameplan, move in the pocket, keep his cool in the tightest of situations, lead his team and oh, he can make any throw on the field as well. :thumbup:
I respect that. I just think Manning has been on some soft play-off teams, and if he had played on a football team with a reputation for being physical and tough on defense, he'd have won a Super Bowl by now. I really hope he wins one some day, although it will be tough with his salary where it is.
 
I'd take Brady at twice the salary...give me a guy we KNOW can win in a big spot [with the team on his back]. I'm a Manning fan, and there aren't many QBs I would rather have than Peyton, but objectively Brady is the measuring stick by which the position should be currently judged.

 
You asked a question, I gave you an answer.

I think he'd have won a Super Bowl by now if he had an actual play-off defense behind him.
In the last six Manning era Colt playoff losses, 5 of the six teams have scored 24 points or LESS- the lone exception being NY's 41. The Colts have scored 16, 17, 0, 14, 3, and 18 in those losses. In the playoffs losses, where Manning has 3 TD's and 7 INT's, the Colts have a problem on offense, not defense.
 
Brady and it's not really close IMO. People always give so much credit to NE's D for their success and while the D does deserve a lot of credit, Brady has led an offense of virtually no-namers and made them very successful over the past 4 years. Sure, Manning hasn't had the defense that Brady has had but Brady also hasn't had Marvin Harrison, Edge James, and Reggie Wayne on offense.

 
You asked a question, I gave you an answer.

I think he'd have won a Super Bowl by now if he had an actual play-off defense behind him.
In the last six Manning era Colt playoff losses, 5 of the six teams have scored 24 points or LESS- the lone exception being NY's 41. The Colts have scored 16, 17, 0, 14, 3, and 18 in those losses. In the playoffs losses, where Manning has 3 TD's and 7 INT's, the Colts have a problem on offense, not defense.
:goodposting: Scoring 11 ppg over the course of your playoff career -- not good. :X

 
Brady and it's not really close IMO. People always give so much credit to NE's D for their success and while the D does deserve a lot of credit, Brady has led an offense of virtually no-namers and made them very successful over the past 4 years.

Sure, Manning hasn't had the defense that Brady has had but Brady also hasn't had Marvin Harrison, Edge James, and Reggie Wayne on offense.
:goodposting:
 
Peyton Manning as good as he's been in the regular season hasn't shown up during the post season.Until he does that, if he does that, Tom Brady will go down as a better Qb than Peyton Manning.When we think about guys like Roger Staubauch and Terry Bradshaw, they seperated themsevles from guys like Fran Tarkentan because of their Super Bowl victories. In our minds, we know that all 3 of those QB's were very good but what seperates them are the SB victories.In 20 years, you'll remember Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. Both Qb's will be considered very good football players like the above QB's but the SB's will forever carry more weight in greatness. Of course this is assuming Manning doesn't win, but time's ticking and I know they'll be losing one of their super stars from this year on offense. They missed a golden opportunity this year.

 
I don't think it's as cut and dry as you guys are making it out. Again, if their roles were reversed, do you think the Colts would have beaten the Patriots and be Super Bowl champs by now? Are we supposed to believe that Tom Brady wouldn't have also had a few bad games against a brilliant Patriots defense in Foxboro? I also love how someone cherry-picked Peyton Manning's statistics in play-off LOSSES to make him look much worse.

Manning:

Year Opp Result | CMP ATT PYD PTD INT | RSH YD TD

---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------

1999 ten L,16-19 | 19 43 227 0 0 | 2 22 1

2000 mia L,17-23 | 17 32 194 1 0 | 1 -2 0

2002 nyj L,0-41 | 14 31 137 0 2 | 1 2 0

2003 den W,41-10 | 22 26 377 5 0 | 1 0 0

2003 kan W,38-31 | 22 30 304 3 0 | 1 -1 0

2003 nwe L,14-24 | 23 47 237 1 4 | 2 4 0

2004 den W,49-24 | 27 33 457 4 1 | 1 1 1

2004 nwe L,3-20 | 27 42 238 0 1 | 1 6 0

2005 pit L,18-21 | 22 38 290 1 0 | 0 0 0

---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------

TOTAL | 193 322 2461 15 8 | 10 32 2

Tom Brady:

Year Opp Result | CMP ATT PYD PTD INT | RSH YD TD

---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------

2001 oak W,16-13 | 32 52 312 0 1 | 5 16 1

2001 pit W,24-17 | 12 18 115 0 0 | 2 3 0

*2001 ram W,20-17 | 16 27 145 1 0 | 1 3 0

2003 ten W,17-14 | 21 41 201 1 0 | 5 5 0

2003 ind W,24-14 | 22 37 237 1 1 | 5 1 0

*2003 car W,32-29 | 32 48 354 3 1 | 2 12 0

2004 ind W,20-3 | 18 27 144 1 0 | 4 6 1

2004 pit W,41-27 | 14 21 207 2 0 | 2 -2 0

*2004 phi W,24-21 | 23 33 236 2 0 | 1 -1 0

2005 jax W,28-3 | 15 27 201 3 0 | 2 9 0

2005 den L,13-27 | 20 36 341 1 2 | 1 -1 0

---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------

TOTAL | 225 367 2493 15 5 | 30 51 2

Manning: 15-8 TDs-INTs

Brady: 15-5 TDs-INTs

There's very little discrepancy between Manning and Brady's production in the postseason.

Here's a few more statistics: Tom Brady has a 1 TD to 2 INT ratio in play-off losses. Steve Young has 4 TDs to 10 INTs in play-off losses. Walter Payton has more fumbles than touchdowns in Super Bowl games. You can go on and on.

And in his last play-off loss to Pittsburgh, Manning went 22/38 for 290, 1 TD and 0 INTs. Not exactly horrendous. He has NEVER played on a team that had a true championship-caliber defense, and let's not forget that the only reason the Colts even had a chance to come back in the Pittsburgh game is because Manning had the sack to go for it on 4th down. It's also worth noting that the Steeler defense did an excellent job of putting pressure on Manning in the first half.

Tom Brady, who has been great in his own right (which goes without saying), made the bonehead play of the day in the Denver game. Why? Because the pressure got to him and he forced a bad throw. Is he the one to blame for their loss, or does he get a free pass because he's already won a Super Bowl? Because I'm positive that Manning would be made to look like a goat if he had had the exact same performance.

 
I didn't cherry pick a loss or two. He has 6. Six playoff losses. I said they were losses. You put the blame on the D. You said he had to put up a 30 spot to keep his team in the game. That simply has not been the case. Most of the games they have lost, they have not scoredmuch, and not been scored on much. When you have Edge, Harrison, Wayne, Clark (notice the amount of first round picks here with talent and experience) you have to be able to put up 24 in the playoffs. Put up 24 and you have a good chance to win, don't and you don't. He has been brilliant in his teams 3 post season wins with 12 td's and only 1 INT. But there simply is no getting around the losses. He has been bad, and four of those losses were to teams other than NE. I am glad you pointed out the Tom Brady stat- in the game his team lost, he did not play well. Turnovers kill you in playoff games. Missing open wr's kill you in playoff games. Brady has ony played poorly in one playoff game and was huge in two of three superbowl wins. The fact that Brady has put up similar numbers in the playoofs speaks to the reduced effectiveness of Manning- because he has much more talent on that side of the football.

 
Manning has been on some soft teams because HE'S SOFT himself. He defines his teams...you havent figured that out yet?? Comparing Brady to Manning at this point is absurd. let Manning actually GET to a SB let alone win one before you even discuss these two players in the same light....anyone not realizing this is either HEAVILY biased or delusional.

 
Put Brady on the Colts and Manning on the Pats. Whats the likely outcome?1) Manning and the Pats win several Super Bowls.2) Brady and the Colts win nothing. Let me put it another way:Is Tedy Bruschi "better" than **** Butkus because he anchored three Super Bowl defeses, while Butkus never won anything? Is Super Bowl MVP Deion Branch better than Randy Moss? Of course, not. Because Football is a TEAM game, and its irresponsible to confuse team achievements with individual players accomplishments.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Put Brady on the Colts and Manning on the Pats. Whats the likely outcome?

1) Manning and the Pats win several Super Bowls.

2) Brady and the Colts win nothing.

Let me put it another way:

Is Tedy Bruschi "better" than **** Butkus because he anchored three Super Bowl defeses, while Butkus never won anything? Is Super Bowl MVP Deion Branch better than Randy Moss? Of course, not. Because Football is a TEAM game, and its irresponsible to confuse team achievements with individual players accomplishments.
Do you realize how idiotic it is to dream of such things? Youre talking in a fantasy world wondering WHAT IF?????? Lets not dwell on hypotheticals and deal with reality. We live in a world of WHAT DID and WHAT WILL ....not what if. WHAT IF Manning wasnt soft???? And could move around in the pocket under pressure?? ANd he wasnt a cry baby?? And he could make a play in a big game when his team really needed it??? WHAT IF, WHAT IF, WHAT IF..........
 
Put Brady on the Colts and Manning on the Pats. Whats the likely outcome?

1) Manning and the Pats win several Super Bowls.

2) Brady and the Colts win nothing.

Let me put it another way:

Is Tedy Bruschi "better" than **** Butkus because he anchored three Super Bowl defeses, while Butkus never won anything? Is Super Bowl MVP Deion Branch better than Randy Moss? Of course, not. Because Football is a TEAM game, and its irresponsible to confuse team achievements with individual players accomplishments.
Do you realize how idiotic it is to dream of such things? Youre talking in a fantasy world wondering WHAT IF?????? Lets not dwell on hypotheticals and deal with reality. We live in a world of WHAT DID and WHAT WILL ....not what if. WHAT IF Manning wasnt soft???? And could move around in the pocket under pressure?? ANd he wasnt a cry baby?? And he could make a play in a big game when his team really needed it??? WHAT IF, WHAT IF, WHAT IF..........
Ok, so who would you rather have - Tedy Bruschi or **** Butkus? Please justify how you would rather have Bruschi.
 
as of right now peyton is winning this vote 32-29. I cant figure this out at all. Brady is my pick without question for obvious reasons.

 
P. Manning [ 34 ]  [53.13%] T. Brady [ 30 ]  [46.88%]
WTH am I missing? Even after Brady's 1st playoff loss this season, the gap between the two grew much wider after this postseason. I used to think Brady was better by a bit, now I think Brady is better by about 5 miles.Edit: I said before this postseason that this was the postseason where Manning is going to be judged because the excuses will be completely gone. Well, he came up REALLY small when everything was set up for his team. He failed. End of story.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Put Brady on the Colts and Manning on the Pats. Whats the likely outcome?

1) Manning and the Pats win several Super Bowls.

2) Brady and the Colts win nothing.

Let me put it another way:

Is Tedy Bruschi "better" than **** Butkus because he anchored three Super Bowl defeses, while Butkus never won anything? Is Super Bowl MVP Deion Branch better than Randy Moss? Of course, not. Because Football is a TEAM game, and its irresponsible to confuse team achievements with individual players accomplishments.
Is your argument that the middle linebacker has as much responsibility for the play of the defense as the quarterback?
 
You asked a question, I gave you an answer.

I think he'd have won a Super Bowl by now if he had an actual play-off defense behind him.
This years Colts D wasnt a playoff D?
They were great when Peyton gave them a 10-point cushion and other teams had to abandon the run. But they're pretty much screwed if Manning doesn't drop 30 points on the opposing defense. Do you think Brady would have won those Colts/Patriots match-ups if their roles were reversed?
Anyway, I voted Brady. I love the way this guy can adapt to a gameplan, move in the pocket, keep his cool in the tightest of situations, lead his team and oh, he can make any throw on the field as well. :thumbup:
I respect that. I just think Manning has been on some soft play-off teams, and if he had played on a football team with a reputation for being physical and tough on defense, he'd have won a Super Bowl by now. I really hope he wins one some day, although it will be tough with his salary where it is.
Manning CHOSE to stay w/ the Colts. They don't have the money to spend on D, BECAUSE he taks up 20% of the cap space, or there about. To me, it's been Brady time and again. Blame the D's all you want, but you might want to take a gander at Peytons playoff loss numbers. They're not always bad, but never great when the team needs him to be.

Brady and it's not really close IMO. People always give so much credit to NE's D for their success and while the D does deserve a lot of credit, Brady has led an offense of virtually no-namers and made them very successful over the past 4 years.

Sure, Manning hasn't had the defense that Brady has had but Brady also hasn't had Marvin Harrison, Edge James, and Reggie Wayne on offense.
An excellent point.
I don't think it's as cut and dry as you guys are making it out. Again, if their roles were reversed, do you think the Colts would have beaten the Patriots and be Super Bowl champs by now? Are we supposed to believe that Tom Brady wouldn't have also had a few bad games against a brilliant Patriots defense in Foxboro? I also love how someone cherry-picked Peyton Manning's statistics in play-off LOSSES to make him look much worse.
Because his play in the losses is often the reason for the loss. When you take the huge money, and build you team to win w/ offense, you can't be average in the playoff game. This year was the year they were going to do it. solid D, home field, and again he chokes in the playoffs. Also, it's not just winning superbowls, he hasn't even gotten to one. He can't even win a conference championship.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Brady and it's not really close IMO. People always give so much credit to NE's D for their success and while the D does deserve a lot of credit, Brady has led an offense of virtually no-namers and made them very successful over the past 4 years.

Sure, Manning hasn't had the defense that Brady has had but Brady also hasn't had Marvin Harrison, Edge James, and Reggie Wayne on offense.
While I agree with this assessment, based on the question who would I build a franchise around, it would be Manning. I believe Brady is clearly a better big game QB, but if you put both of them on bad teams, Peyton instantly makes them a contender (this is exactly what he did with the Colts even as a young QB). Peyton may not ever get them over the hump, but I am a person that would rather be in the mix every year. Brady is great, no question, and with all the right pieces around him he is a champion like no other. But put one of the two of them on Texans for instance, and I think Peyton makes them a contender first.
 
Put Brady on the Colts and Manning on the Pats. Whats the likely outcome?

1) Manning and the Pats win several Super Bowls.

2) Brady and the Colts win nothing.

Let me put it another way:

Is Tedy Bruschi "better" than **** Butkus because he anchored three Super Bowl defeses, while Butkus never won anything? Is Super Bowl MVP Deion Branch better than Randy Moss? Of course, not. Because Football is a TEAM game, and its irresponsible to confuse team achievements with individual players accomplishments.
Is your argument that the middle linebacker has as much responsibility for the play of the defense as the quarterback?
No, not really. By and large, the QB has a bigger impact on the game than a MLB. But different QB's carry different levels of accountability, imo. Peyton Manning carries a far greater responsibilty for the Colts successes (or failures) than Tom Brady does for the Pats. People continually (almost blindly) overlook that when assessing the two. Using the same argument, people can proclaim that Trent Dilfer was better than Manning as well - when its clear as day that there were ulterior drivers dictating his teams success.Tom Brady is not the dominant force in the Patriots offense; hes simply their most recognizable player. Their have been many playoff games where Bradys play has been subpar yet the Pats have continued to roll - due to the defense, the running game, and above all the gameplan. This tells me that the credit that he receives for leading the Pats to three Super Bowl victories is somewhat overrated. I prefer to give credit to Bill Bellicheck, whose schemes and playcalling is the real motor to the Pats success.

Anyway, the MLB poll is just an example to drive home a point. You can plug in any number of players/positions. For example, Barry Sanders gets the same treatment as Peyton Manning for failing to win a Super Bowl - and hes not even a QB. Butkus, on the other hand, seems immune from such criticism. So there seems to be a double standard here, that Im strying (succesfully or not) to exploit.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Brady and it's not really close IMO. People always give so much credit to NE's D for their success and while the D does deserve a lot of credit, Brady has led an offense of virtually no-namers and made them very successful over the past 4 years.

Sure, Manning hasn't had the defense that Brady has had but Brady also hasn't had Marvin Harrison, Edge James, and Reggie Wayne on offense.
While I agree with this assessment, based on the question who would I build a franchise around, it would be Manning. I believe Brady is clearly a better big game QB, but if you put both of them on bad teams, Peyton instantly makes them a contender (this is exactly what he did with the Colts even as a young QB). Peyton may not ever get them over the hump, but I am a person that would rather be in the mix every year. Brady is great, no question, and with all the right pieces around him he is a champion like no other. But put one of the two of them on Texans for instance, and I think Peyton makes them a contender first.
You mean like this year when Brady carried the team while 3 offensive linemen, the top 3 RB's, and the top WR and Tight End were out, while the defense was a sieve? Is that what you mean by making a bad team better?
 
I'll just throw it out there that Manning has been coached by possibly the two worst choking head coaches in the history of the playoffs. Who has been worse in the playoffs than Mora and Dungy? Brady on the other hand....

 
Anyway, the MLB poll is just an example to drive home a point. You can plug in any number of players/positions. For example, Barry Sanders gets the same treatment as Peyton Manning for failing to win a Super Bowl - and hes not even a QB. Butkus, on the other hand, seems immune from such criticism. So there seems to be a double standard here, that Im strying (succesfully or not) to exploit.
It's not a double standard. The Pats offense isn't loaded with first round talent. They CHOSE to build a solid TEAM, and try to balance the scoring to be more than the D gives up. The Colts have decided to build their team around first round talent on offense, and it's worked, in the regular season and in first or second round playoff games. But, consistently, because of poor play from Manning, they lose in the playoffs. It's not a double standard. If the Pats had 7 of 11 starters on offense as first round talent, Brady would get the same criticism. But, they don't.
 
I'll just throw it out there that Manning has been coached by possibly the two worst choking head coaches in the history of the playoffs.  Who has been worse in the playoffs than Mora and Dungy? 

Brady on the other hand....
Just go ahead and blame P. Fulmer for the lack big game success in college too. :thumbup: If it wasn't it for him Manning would have been a champion rather than the best QB the Citrus Bowl has ever seen. :thumbup:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I'll just throw it out there that Manning has been coached by possibly the two worst choking head coaches in the history of the playoffs.  Who has been worse in the playoffs than Mora and Dungy? 

Brady on the other hand....
Just go ahead and blame P. Fulmer for the lack big game success in college too. :thumbup: If it wasn't it for him Manning would have been a champion rather than the best QB the Citrus Bowl has ever seen. :thumbup:
Wasn't Manning undefeated against Alabama? How did he do against Georgia? Wasn't he 3-1 in Bowl games?
 
I'll just throw it out there that Manning has been coached by possibly the two worst choking head coaches in the history of the playoffs.  Who has been worse in the playoffs than Mora and Dungy? 

Brady on the other hand....
Just go ahead and blame P. Fulmer for the lack big game success in college too. :thumbup: If it wasn't it for him Manning would have been a champion rather than the best QB the Citrus Bowl has ever seen. :thumbup:
Wasn't Manning undefeated against Alabama? How did he do against Georgia? Wasn't he 3-1 in Bowl games?
Unlike the NFL the last game of the season in college is not always the biggest. Go ask a Vols fan what they would rather do given the choice, beat Florida or win the Old El Paso made in San Antoinio not New York City Salso Bowl.
 
Brady, any day of the week, for multiple reasons...1. Testicular fortitude - Manning seems to fold like a card table in the playoffs, has played in enough games to prove this IMO. On the other hand, Brady steps up at this time of year, and has had one bad playoff game to date.2. Mobility - Payton is pretty much a statue that HAS to have a pocket around him. Brady, while no M. Vick, moves and slides well in the pocket, and can throw in the run pretty darn good.3. The Archie factor - Has a Manning(any Manning, pick one)EVER won a game of significance ? I think it is in his DNA to crumble under pressue(see Eli in the playoffs this year).

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Brady and it's not really close IMO. People always give so much credit to NE's D for their success and while the D does deserve a lot of credit, Brady has led an offense of virtually no-namers and made them very successful over the past 4 years.

Sure, Manning hasn't had the defense that Brady has had but Brady also hasn't had Marvin Harrison, Edge James, and Reggie Wayne on offense.
While I agree with this assessment, based on the question who would I build a franchise around, it would be Manning. I believe Brady is clearly a better big game QB, but if you put both of them on bad teams, Peyton instantly makes them a contender (this is exactly what he did with the Colts even as a young QB). Peyton may not ever get them over the hump, but I am a person that would rather be in the mix every year. Brady is great, no question, and with all the right pieces around him he is a champion like no other. But put one of the two of them on Texans for instance, and I think Peyton makes them a contender first.
You mean like this year when Brady carried the team while 3 offensive linemen, the top 3 RB's, and the top WR and Tight End were out, while the defense was a sieve? Is that what you mean by making a bad team better?
This year was without question Brady's best year, for the reasons you mention. I still believe that this years offensive team, even without all the people mentioned, is better than the Texans. I also believe that the Pats benefitted from a very weak second half of the season schedule. Just my opinion, though.
 
A year ago I would have given the slight edge to Manning.After the Colt choke in the Pittsburgh game I go the other way.The Colts had way too many chances to tie or win against the Steelers despite being outplayed nearly the entire game. On the last drive, Manning didn't use a timeout after the first completion in the middle of the field (mistake since they had 3 TOs left), wasted a lot of time behind center, then on 3rd and 2 threw a lousy 20 yard pass instead of a short one to get the first and move the team closer to a tie or win. Add the interception that went against Pittsburgh and this game beomes the biggest choke since Minnesota vs. Atlanta in the NFC Championship several years ago.

 
Brady and it's not really close IMO. People always give so much credit to NE's D for their success and while the D does deserve a lot of credit, Brady has led an offense of virtually no-namers and made them very successful over the past 4 years.

Sure, Manning hasn't had the defense that Brady has had but Brady also hasn't had Marvin Harrison, Edge James, and Reggie Wayne on offense.
While I agree with this assessment, based on the question who would I build a franchise around, it would be Manning. I believe Brady is clearly a better big game QB, but if you put both of them on bad teams, Peyton instantly makes them a contender (this is exactly what he did with the Colts even as a young QB). Peyton may not ever get them over the hump, but I am a person that would rather be in the mix every year. Brady is great, no question, and with all the right pieces around him he is a champion like no other. But put one of the two of them on Texans for instance, and I think Peyton makes them a contender first.
You mean like this year when Brady carried the team while 3 offensive linemen, the top 3 RB's, and the top WR and Tight End were out, while the defense was a sieve? Is that what you mean by making a bad team better?
This year was without question Brady's best year, for the reasons you mention. I still believe that this years offensive team, even without all the people mentioned, is better than the Texans. I also believe that the Pats benefitted from a very weak second half of the season schedule. Just my opinion, though.
They were also in a hole because of playing all four of the final four teams in the first half. They didn't pick the schedule, and they're all still NFL teams that beat other teams down the stretch. There are no gimmes on the schedule. Some are harder than others, but any week, any team can beat any other.
 
Brady, any day of the week, for multiple reasons...

1. Testicular fortitude
:lmao:
Manning CHOSE to stay w/ the Colts. They don't have the money to spend on D, BECAUSE he taks up 20% of the cap space, or there about.
I actually agree with you. Which is exactly why I said, in my very first post:
If they're being paid the same salary, I'd take Manning in a heartbeat.

(edit for insertion of word)
They're certainly not built to contend in the near future unless Manning takes a mammoth paycut, and considering the joker head coaches he's played for, I don't blame him for taking the money while he can.
To me, it's been Brady time and again. Blame the D's all you want, but you might want to take a gander at Peytons playoff loss numbers. They're not always bad, but never great when the team needs him to be.
For what it's worth, Brady is 6-1 in play-off games where he throws 1 TD pass or less. Care to take a guess at what Manning's record is in the 6 games where he's thrown 1 TD pass or less? Think about that for a minute.
Because his play in the losses is often the reason for the loss. When you take the huge money, and build you team to win w/ offense, you can't be average in the playoff game. This year was the year they were going to do it. solid D, home field, and again he chokes in the playoffs.

Also, it's not just winning superbowls, he hasn't even gotten to one. He can't even win a conference championship.
Okay, if we want to blame Manning for not performing up to what is an absurdly high standard, that's fine. But let's not pretend that he's a worse QB than Brady because he fails to meet that standard. So the Steelers won because he choked, eh? Or was it because the Steelers manhandled the Colts offensive line, got pressure on Manning, got themselves a 10-point lead and forced the Colts, and Manning, to play right into their hands? The blame that Manning shoulders every year for play-off losses is unbelievable to me.And yeah, I remember a few years ago, "Manning can't win a play-off game," now it's "Manning can't even make it to the Super Bowl!" The arguments that people make against him are honestly pretty hilarious.

 
For most of the year, Brady found himself in the situation that people always said Manning was in, not having a solid defense. He showed that he could carry a team on his back and lead them to victory. IMO theres no question that Brady would be the better choice at QB. He displays all the leadership qualities that you want in a QB, and also has that special quality that all the great QBs have....no matter what the situation is, if hes on the field you get the feeling that the team has a chance to win. Manning is a great QB. But with him, come playoff time you just wait for him to fail. Like many people, seeing how they played during the regular season i had come to terms that this was their year, but seeing them fail to make the SB yet again gives me the feeling that he will never be that Super Bowl QB. He may win a SB at some point in his career, but in my opinion his play during the playoffs confirm to me that he is the modern day Marino.

 
Brady and it's not really close IMO. People always give so much credit to NE's D for their success and while the D does deserve a lot of credit, Brady has led an offense of virtually no-namers and made them very successful over the past 4 years.

Sure, Manning hasn't had the defense that Brady has had but Brady also hasn't had Marvin Harrison, Edge James, and Reggie Wayne on offense.
While I agree with this assessment, based on the question who would I build a franchise around, it would be Manning. I believe Brady is clearly a better big game QB, but if you put both of them on bad teams, Peyton instantly makes them a contender (this is exactly what he did with the Colts even as a young QB). Peyton may not ever get them over the hump, but I am a person that would rather be in the mix every year. Brady is great, no question, and with all the right pieces around him he is a champion like no other. But put one of the two of them on Texans for instance, and I think Peyton makes them a contender first.
You mean like this year when Brady carried the team while 3 offensive linemen, the top 3 RB's, and the top WR and Tight End were out, while the defense was a sieve? Is that what you mean by making a bad team better?
This year was without question Brady's best year, for the reasons you mention. I still believe that this years offensive team, even without all the people mentioned, is better than the Texans. I also believe that the Pats benefitted from a very weak second half of the season schedule. Just my opinion, though.
They were also in a hole because of playing all four of the final four teams in the first half. They didn't pick the schedule, and they're all still NFL teams that beat other teams down the stretch. There are no gimmes on the schedule. Some are harder than others, but any week, any team can beat any other.
There may not be any gimmes, but it does not hurt to play the Jets twice, Buffalo and New Orleans in 4 of your last 8 games. Nothing you have said here changes my opinion that Manning is the guy that will more quickly make a team a contender.By the way, I am a Bears fan, and have no horse in this race. You are welcome to think that Brady is the second coming (as you are clearly a Pats fan). I just don't see it that way. If you were to ask me which quarterback I would rather have had playing on this years Bears team, I would have chosen Brady in a heartbeat. If you were to ask me which one I would have rather had playing for the Bears last year, I would have said Manning in a heartbeat. The difference, this year the Bears as a team were put in a position where that big game QB might have made a difference in teh playoffs. Last year, they needed something completely different that might have put them in a position to make the playoffs instead of the 4th worst team in the league. Manning fits that bill, in my eyes.

 
The blame that Manning shoulders every year for play-off losses is unbelievable to me.
You're the one who wants to call him great. Great players aren't great all the time, but they're great when they need to be. Manning has never lived up to this standard. yes, I am a Pats fan (how'd you figure it out? It was the name, right? ) YOu want to put Manning in all these situations and say he'd be a difference maker. He's not going to be ina better position to be a difference maker than he's in now, and he's consistently failed to be the difference maker. That's the knock against him. Again, you keep comparing Brady throwing to Givens and Branch (7th and 3rd round picks) to Manning throwing to his first round picks of Harrison and Wayne. Manning HAS TO PERFORM. It's what his team was built for. Brady doesn't. He's there to make whatever play he can. It's a significant difference.
 
Okay, if we want to blame Manning for not performing up to what is an absurdly high standard, that's fine. But let's not pretend that he's a worse QB than Brady because he fails to meet that standard.
Brady has set a very high standard for quarterback play over the last five years. It's not unfair to compare Manning to it in a thread entitled P. Manning or T. Brady.
And yeah, I remember a few years ago, "Manning can't win a play-off game," now it's "Manning can't even make it to the Super Bowl!" The arguments that people make against him are honestly pretty hilarious.
OK, so admittedly the argument has changed, but Manning's behavior hasn't. Are we discussing how some people inaccurately characterized Manning back then, or are we discussing Manning's well documented struggles in the playoffs? And to recap those struggles, it's not like Manning has suddenly righted the ship. Yes, he has won three playoff games. But after failing to win a playoff game in his first three appearances, he's done even worse in their more recent losses. He let the team get shut out against a Jets team that got steamrolled the following week, threw four picks to lose the next game, then led his team to three points in a season when he'd thrown 49 TDs, and lost this most recent game three times despite a lot of good fortune that gave him opportunity after opportunity.

So the Steelers won because he choked, eh? Or was it because the Steelers manhandled the Colts offensive line, got pressure on Manning, got themselves a 10-point lead and forced the Colts, and Manning, to play right into their hands? The blame that Manning shoulders every year for play-off losses is unbelievable to me.
It's not that the Steelers won because he choked. The Steelers played a good game, and deserved to win. They did everything they were supposed to do (at least until the fumble). I don't blame Manning for failing to beat them. I don't think he's automatically supposed to pass for 350 yards and 3 TDs in the playoffs. And his stats in this game were arguably nothing to sneeze at, even if you count the Polamalu INT. It's that the Colts got extremely fortunate, and Manning failed to take advantage of it. The Colts had some huge opportunities when the Polamalu interception was overturned, and they recovered the fumble on the goalline, and yet in three straight opportunities, Manning did some of the worst things a quarterback can do - he threw a pick, he took two sacks and forced an embarrassingly dangerous hookshot pass for no gain, and he led an inept comeback attempt with bad game and clock management.

Again, he's made some very real, very bad mistakes in playoff games in the past, and those mistakes have cost his team games. It is as correct to hold that against him as it is to give him credit for his exceptional regular season performances.

So when you're evaluating Manning vs. Brady, the question you have to ask yourself is, would you rather have a guy that has done an incredible job at helping his team win games in the regular season, but has been a huge anchor around his team's neck in the playoffs, or the guy who has done an incredible job at helping his team win in both the regular season and the playoffs?

 
For what it's worth, Brady is 6-1 in play-off games where he throws 1 TD pass or less. Care to take a guess at what Manning's record is in the 6 games where he's thrown 1 TD pass or less? Think about that for a minute.
This is an interesting argument, and one I hadn't heard before. I looked it up, and here's what we have:Brady has had one "0 TD" game. I don't think you can count the snow game, where he was 32 of 52 passing for 312 yards and ran for a score. His only zero TD game was against Pittsburgh, where he was off to a hot start (12 of 18 for 115 yards in a little over a quarter of play), but got injured.

He actually only has five "one TD" games - unless you're holding his rushing TDs against him. His others were against the heavily favored Rams, where the Pats got out to an early lead then played keepaway, the Titans, in below zero Fahrenheit temperatures, when he threw for 201 yards and a TD, against Indy, where he led the team to 24 points but only threw for 237 yards and a TD, and most recently, against Denver, where his pick in the end zone changed the outcome of a game in which he'd thrown for 341 yards and a TD. In those games, he has never thrown below 50% or thrown for more than 2 INTs.

He also has five multi-TD games, including the Indy game that you counted as a 1 TD game by not counting both his rushing and passing TDs. Brady is 5-0 in these games.

Manning has two 0 TD games, one in a shutout loss vs. the Jets, and one in a loss vs. the Pats where he led his team to a single field goal despite passing for 49 TDs that year.

He has four 1 TD games, including the game where he threw four picks, the game where he completed less than 50% of his passes, and the game he lost three times.

So to recap, Brady's never scored less than a TD in a complete playoff game, and has a 15:5 TD:INT ratio that is 14:3 in wins and 1:2 in his one playoff loss. Manning's scored less than a TD twice in a smaller sample size, while compiling a 15:8 TD:INT ratio that is 12:1 in three wins, and 3:7 in six losses.

Meanwhile, the Colts are undefeated in games where Manning scores multiple TDs. Where Manning goes, so go the Colts. With a team that's been built entirely around Manning and the offense, why is it unreasonable to give him more credit when they win, and more blame when they lose, especially when it's as a direct result of his mistakes?

 
This argument always turns into an argument of Brady's supporters saying "Brady is awesome because he's a big game QB" vs Manning's supporters saying "You can't blame Manning for his team's failures in the playoffs" but it should be much more than that. Brady's REGULAR season statistics aren't far off Manning's despite the fact that Manning is surrounded by vastly superior talent on offense. Manning's career rating is 5 points better than Brady, he has a slightly better completion %, and Brady has a better TD-to-INT ratio. All this despite playing with a supporting cast of Brown, Givens, Branch, and Dillon/Faulk vs Harrison, Wayne, Stokely, James. Furthermore, and this would be tough to prove so it's only my opinon, I'd wager that Brady has faced tougher defenses over this span, having to play in the AFC East vs the South. So, not only is Brady is a better big game QB than Manning, but an argument can be made that he's also a better regular season QB than Manning.

 
Brady, any day of the week, for multiple reasons...

1. Testicular fortitude
:lmao:
Manning CHOSE to stay w/ the Colts.  They don't have the money to spend on D, BECAUSE he taks up 20% of the cap space, or there about. 
I actually agree with you. Which is exactly why I said, in my very first post:
If they're being paid the same salary, I'd take Manning in a heartbeat.

(edit for insertion of word)
They're certainly not built to contend in the near future unless Manning takes a mammoth paycut, and considering the joker head coaches he's played for, I don't blame him for taking the money while he can.
To me, it's been Brady time and again.  Blame the D's all you want, but you might want to take a gander at Peytons playoff loss numbers.  They're not always bad, but never great when the team needs him to be.
For what it's worth, Brady is 6-1 in play-off games where he throws 1 TD pass or less. Care to take a guess at what Manning's record is in the 6 games where he's thrown 1 TD pass or less? Think about that for a minute.
Because his play in the losses is often the reason for the loss.  When you take the huge money, and build you team to win w/ offense, you can't be average in the playoff game.  This year was the year they were going to do it.  solid D, home field, and again he chokes in the playoffs. 

Also, it's not just winning superbowls, he hasn't even gotten to one.  He can't even win a conference championship.
Okay, if we want to blame Manning for not performing up to what is an absurdly high standard, that's fine. But let's not pretend that he's a worse QB than Brady because he fails to meet that standard. So the Steelers won because he choked, eh? Or was it because the Steelers manhandled the Colts offensive line, got pressure on Manning, got themselves a 10-point lead and forced the Colts, and Manning, to play right into their hands? The blame that Manning shoulders every year for play-off losses is unbelievable to me.And yeah, I remember a few years ago, "Manning can't win a play-off game," now it's "Manning can't even make it to the Super Bowl!" The arguments that people make against him are honestly pretty hilarious.
I used to be just like this when defending Drew Bledsoe back in the late 90s.
 
This argument always turns into an argument of Brady's supporters saying "Brady is awesome because he's a big game QB" vs Manning's supporters saying "You can't blame Manning for his team's failures in the playoffs" but it should be much more than that. Brady's REGULAR season statistics aren't far off Manning's despite the fact that Manning is surrounded by vastly superior talent on offense.

Manning's career rating is 5 points better than Brady, he has a slightly better completion %, and Brady has a better TD-to-INT ratio. All this despite playing with a supporting cast of Brown, Givens, Branch, and Dillon/Faulk vs Harrison, Wayne, Stokely, James. Furthermore, and this would be tough to prove so it's only my opinon, I'd wager that Brady has faced tougher defenses over this span, having to play in the AFC East vs the South.

So, not only is Brady is a better big game QB than Manning, but an argument can be made that he's also a better regular season QB than Manning.
I agree. :thumbup: However, I hope you're wearing some sort of protective gear for when the Manning posse catches wind of this and goes on an all out attack.

 
This argument always turns into an argument of Brady's supporters saying "Brady is awesome because he's a big game QB" vs Manning's supporters saying "You can't blame Manning for his team's failures in the playoffs" but it should be much more than that.  Brady's REGULAR season statistics aren't far off Manning's despite the fact that Manning is surrounded by vastly superior talent on offense.

Manning's career rating is 5 points better than Brady, he has a slightly better completion %, and Brady has a better TD-to-INT ratio.  All this despite playing with a supporting cast of Brown, Givens, Branch, and Dillon/Faulk vs Harrison, Wayne, Stokely, James.  Furthermore, and this would be tough to prove so it's only my opinon, I'd wager that Brady has faced tougher defenses over this span, having to play in the AFC East vs the South.   

So, not only is Brady is a better big game QB than Manning, but an argument can be made that he's also a better regular season QB than Manning.
I agree. :thumbup: However, I hope you're wearing some sort of protective gear for when the Manning posse catches wind of this and goes on an all out attack.
I'm not really trying to make an argument against Manning; Manning is a top QB in the league for sure. I just think it's pretty cut and dried that Brady is the best QB in the NFL right now.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top