Packers drafting a tackle in first (2 Viewers)

[cr8f]

From Packerchatters

by Al Bracco | February 26th, 2010

It’s as close to fact as you can get; the Green Bay Packers’ No. 1 item on their “things we need” list is a left tackle to protect their franchise quarterback for years to come. Is there anyone out there that can truthfully dispute that statement? Anyone?

Sure, a bookend OLB to pair with Clay Matthews and some DB help (CB, S, ANYTHING!) would be great. A real punter would be great. Those are all things I want to see happen, as well.

However, with often-injured unrestricted free agent Chad Clifton on a downward career slope, the all-important left tackle position must be addressed NOW. With any luck, the Packers will be able to bring Clifton back for at least one more year and draft a potential LT of the future.

The question is, will they be able to get that player at pick No. 23 in the first round and should they even try? Stay with me, I’ll explain what I mean.

Thanks to the friend-making machine known as Facebook, a Packer fan named Andy Tisdel alerted me to a blog post he had written. Andy had done some great research, identifying all of the starting left tackles in the NFL in 2009 and noting what round they were drafted in. While you can read the post to get the full details, the end result was predictably that just over 50% of the starting left tackles in the NFL in 2009 were drafted in the first round.

So the Packers should draft an Offensive Tackle first, right? Not so fast. I had a feeling that if we dug a little deeper into the numbers, we might get a different answer.

Let’s take a quick look at the players in question and where they were drafted:

AFC

Colts: Charlie Johnson (sixth)

Titans: Michael Roos (second) Pro Bowler

Texans: Duane Brown (first, No. 26)

Jaguars: Eugene Monroe (first, No. 8 )

Steelers: Max Starks (third)

Browns: Joe Thomas (first, No. 3) Pro Bowler

Ravens: Jared Gaither (fifthl)

Bengals: Andrew Whitworth (second)

Jets: D’Brickashaw Ferguson (first, No. 4) Pro Bowler

Patriots: Sebastian Vollmer (second) [starter on IR: Matt Light, (second), Pro Bowler]

Dolphins: Jake Long (first, No. 1) Pro Bowler

Bills: Jonathan Scott (fifth)

Chargers: Marcus McNeill (second)

Raiders: Mario Henderson (third)

Chiefs: Branden Albert (first, No. 15)

Broncos: Ryan Clady (first, No. 12) Pro Bowler

NFC

Bears: Orlando Pace (first, No. 1) Pro Bowler

Packers: Chad Clifton (second)

Lions: Jeff Backus (first, No. 18)

Vikings: Bryant McKinnie (first, No. 7) Pro Bowler

49ers: Joe Staley (first, No. 28)

Cardinals: Jeremy Bridges (sixth)

Rams: Alex Barron (first, No. 19)

Seahawks: Sean Locklear (third) [starter on IR: Walter Jones, (first, No. 6), Pro Bowler]

Cowboys: Flozell Adams (second) Pro Bowler

Eagles: Jason Peters (undrafted) Pro Bowler

Redskins: Levi Jones (first) [starter on IR: Chris Samuels, (first, No. 3), Pro Bowler]

Giants: David Diehl (fifth) Pro Bowler

Saints: Jermon Bushrod (fourth) [starter on IR: Jammal Brown, (first, No. 13), Pro Bowler]

Buccaneers: Donald Penn (undrafted)

Panthers: Jeff Otah (first) [starter on IR: Jordan Gross, (first, No. 8), Pro Bowler]

Falcons: Sam Baker (first, No. 21)

Using the starters that were on IR rather than their replacements, the results tabulate as follows:

Round Drafted:

1st round: 17

2nd: 5

3rd: 2

4th: 1

5th: 3

6th: 2

7th: 0

Undrafted/supplemental: 2

TOTAL=32

Out of the 17 first round picks, 15 were selected 21st or higher. Only 12% of those first round tackles were drafted in the range where the Packers will be selecting.

Now let’s look at only the best of those left tackles; those that have made the Pro Bowl:

Round Drafted:

1st round: 11

2nd: 3

3rd: 0

4th: 0

5th: 1

6th: 0

7th: 0

Undrafted/supplemental: 1

Total=16

11 out of 16 (70%) of Pro Bowl left tackles were drafted in the first round. And even more significantly, 8 of those 11 (73%) were top-10 picks. Of the other 3, none were selected below No. 13.

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: (for those of you whose heads are swimming right now) Only 2 current starting left tackles were selected in the first round range where the Packers will be picking. More starting left tackles were selected in the later rounds and more Pro Bowl tackles were selected in the second round.

Statistically it’s a small sample size (Your mileage may vary and past performance is not a guarantee of future results ). But based on these figures, the chances of the Packers selecting a starting left tackle at the No. 23 pick is 12%. The chances of them selecting a future Pro Bowler is 0%. Yes, not one of the Pro Bowl tackles above selected in the first round went later than No. 13. Ironically, according to these numbers, they have a much better chance of finding a Pro Bowl tackle in the second round.

Sooooooooooooo, do the Packers still select an OT at #23 in the first round? What do YOU think?

 

[IDrinkyourMilkshake]

It really depends on how many OT are taken before their pick. If there is a huge run on tackles then it would probably be better taking the BPA rather than reaching for an OT.

 

[Sabertooth]

From Packerchatters

by Al Bracco | February 26th, 2010

It’s as close to fact as you can get; the Green Bay Packers’ No. 1 item on their “things we need” list is a left tackle to protect their franchise quarterback for years to come. Is there anyone out there that can truthfully dispute that statement? Anyone?

Sure, a bookend OLB to pair with Clay Matthews and some DB help (CB, S, ANYTHING!) would be great. A real punter would be great. Those are all things I want to see happen, as well.

However, with often-injured unrestricted free agent Chad Clifton on a downward career slope, the all-important left tackle position must be addressed NOW. With any luck, the Packers will be able to bring Clifton back for at least one more year and draft a potential LT of the future.

The question is, will they be able to get that player at pick No. 23 in the first round and should they even try? Stay with me, I’ll explain what I mean.

Thanks to the friend-making machine known as Facebook, a Packer fan named Andy Tisdel alerted me to a blog post he had written. Andy had done some great research, identifying all of the starting left tackles in the NFL in 2009 and noting what round they were drafted in. While you can read the post to get the full details, the end result was predictably that just over 50% of the starting left tackles in the NFL in 2009 were drafted in the first round.

So the Packers should draft an Offensive Tackle first, right? Not so fast. I had a feeling that if we dug a little deeper into the numbers, we might get a different answer.

Let’s take a quick look at the players in question and where they were drafted:

AFC

Colts: Charlie Johnson (sixth)

Titans: Michael Roos (second) Pro Bowler

Texans: Duane Brown (first, No. 26)

Jaguars: Eugene Monroe (first, No. 8 )

Steelers: Max Starks (third)

Browns: Joe Thomas (first, No. 3) Pro Bowler

Ravens: Jared Gaither (fifthl)

Bengals: Andrew Whitworth (second)

Jets: D’Brickashaw Ferguson (first, No. 4) Pro Bowler

Patriots: Sebastian Vollmer (second) [starter on IR: Matt Light, (second), Pro Bowler]

Dolphins: Jake Long (first, No. 1) Pro Bowler

Bills: Jonathan Scott (fifth)

Chargers: Marcus McNeill (second)

Raiders: Mario Henderson (third)

Chiefs: Branden Albert (first, No. 15)

Broncos: Ryan Clady (first, No. 12) Pro Bowler

NFC

Bears: Orlando Pace (first, No. 1) Pro Bowler

Packers: Chad Clifton (second)

Lions: Jeff Backus (first, No. 18)

Vikings: Bryant McKinnie (first, No. 7) Pro Bowler

49ers: Joe Staley (first, No. 28)

Cardinals: Jeremy Bridges (sixth)

Rams: Alex Barron (first, No. 19)

Seahawks: Sean Locklear (third) [starter on IR: Walter Jones, (first, No. 6), Pro Bowler]

Cowboys: Flozell Adams (second) Pro Bowler

Eagles: Jason Peters (undrafted) Pro Bowler

Redskins: Levi Jones (first) [starter on IR: Chris Samuels, (first, No. 3), Pro Bowler]

Giants: David Diehl (fifth) Pro Bowler

Saints: Jermon Bushrod (fourth) [starter on IR: Jammal Brown, (first, No. 13), Pro Bowler]

Buccaneers: Donald Penn (undrafted)

Panthers: Jeff Otah (first) [starter on IR: Jordan Gross, (first, No. 8), Pro Bowler]

Falcons: Sam Baker (first, No. 21)

Using the starters that were on IR rather than their replacements, the results tabulate as follows:

Round Drafted:

1st round: 17

2nd: 5

3rd: 2

4th: 1

5th: 3

6th: 2

7th: 0

Undrafted/supplemental: 2

TOTAL=32

Out of the 17 first round picks, 15 were selected 21st or higher. Only 12% of those first round tackles were drafted in the range where the Packers will be selecting.

Now let’s look at only the best of those left tackles; those that have made the Pro Bowl:

Round Drafted:

1st round: 11

2nd: 3

3rd: 0

4th: 0

5th: 1

6th: 0

7th: 0

Undrafted/supplemental: 1

Total=16

11 out of 16 (70%) of Pro Bowl left tackles were drafted in the first round. And even more significantly, 8 of those 11 (73%) were top-10 picks. Of the other 3, none were selected below No. 13.

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: (for those of you whose heads are swimming right now) Only 2 current starting left tackles were selected in the first round range where the Packers will be picking. More starting left tackles were selected in the later rounds and more Pro Bowl tackles were selected in the second round.

Statistically it’s a small sample size (Your mileage may vary and past performance is not a guarantee of future results ). But based on these figures, the chances of the Packers selecting a starting left tackle at the No. 23 pick is 12%. The chances of them selecting a future Pro Bowler is 0%. Yes, not one of the Pro Bowl tackles above selected in the first round went later than No. 13. Ironically, according to these numbers, they have a much better chance of finding a Pro Bowl tackle in the second round.

Sooooooooooooo, do the Packers still select an OT at #23 in the first round? What do YOU think?

There is so much wrong with this analysis, I don't even know where to begin.

 

[Titus Pullo]

best player available.

 

[Pipes]

Pretty hard to speculate who the Pack will take at that point in the 1st round. Way too many picks before they draft. If there is a good OT left that's high on the Packers board they will take him but I don't see Thompson reaching here like drafting Charles Brown here. If there are a couple of guys with very similar grades I would think GB goes with the offensive lineman but I'm not sure the draft is going to fall that way.

 

[moderated]

top notch Left Tackles go very early in the draft, it won't be good value to take a LT at the Packers spot.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

top notch Left Tackles go very early in the draft, it won't be good value to take a LT at the Packers spot.

What're you talking about?

Texans: Duane Brown (first, No. 26)Chiefs: Branden Albert (first, No. 15)Lions: Jeff Backus (first, No. 18)49ers: Joe Staley (first, No. 28)Rams: Alex Barron (first, No. 19)Falcons: Sam Baker (first, No. 21)

I personally think Al Bracco could be FOS. Next we'll get an article about how the hybrid DE/LB can be found later in the draft. Then we'll hear about how deep the DB's are in this draft. And on and on by these kind of guys who analyze and overanalyze it while they play pretend GM.

 

[lynx4ben]

top notch Left Tackles go very early in the draft, it won't be good value to take a LT at the Packers spot.

What're you talking about?

Texans: Duane Brown (first, No. 26)Chiefs: Branden Albert (first, No. 15)Lions: Jeff Backus (first, No. 18)49ers: Joe Staley (first, No. 28)Rams: Alex Barron (first, No. 19)Falcons: Sam Baker (first, No. 21)

I personally think Al Bracco could be FOS. Next we'll get an article about how the hybrid DE/LB can be found later in the draft. Then we'll hear about how deep the DB's are in this draft. And on and on by these kind of guys who analyze and overanalyze it while they play pretend GM.

While I love analysis like this. I think it will come down to. Is OT the best value in the draft at the Packers pick? If so TT will probably go their. Simple as that.I doubt TT is doing this research.Oh and btw, I hope that's the case; because we need it.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

Pretty hard to speculate who the Pack will take at that point in the 1st round. Way too many picks before they draft. If there is a good OT left that's high on the Packers board they will take him but I don't see Thompson reaching here like drafting Charles Brown here. If there are a couple of guys with very similar grades I would think GB goes with the offensive lineman but I'm not sure the draft is going to fall that way.

How do you know it's a reach? Because Toddy McShay says so?

Charles Brown, OT, USC Charles Brown's weight was a big concern going into the Combine. Brown was around 290 during the 2009 season, and sub-300-pound tackles just don't go in the first round. Fortunately, Brown weighed in at 303 pounds, while his arms measured 35 1/4 inches. Brown is now a sure first-rounder and a possible candidate at No. 14 for Seattle.

At the other end of the spectrum, the maturity level of USC offensive tackle Charles Brown was very impressive. Not only has this guy battled his share of adversity (family illnesses and making the move from tight end to tackle), he has really come out a better person because of it. Brown might lack some bulk, but he’s a gifted athlete who projects nicely as a starting left tackle in a zone-blocking scheme.

Freak athlete....check. Gained weight.....check. Mature Man.......check.

 

[cr8f]

top notch Left Tackles go very early in the draft, it won't be good value to take a LT at the Packers spot.

What're you talking about?

Texans: Duane Brown (first, No. 26)

Chiefs: Branden Albert (first, No. 15)

Lions: Jeff Backus (first, No. 18)

49ers: Joe Staley (first, No. 28)

Rams: Alex Barron (first, No. 19)

Falcons: Sam Baker (first, No. 21)

I personally think Al Bracco could be FOS. Next we'll get an article about how the hybrid DE/LB can be found later in the draft. Then we'll hear about how deep the DB's are in this draft. And on and on by these kind of guys who analyze and overanalyze it while they play pretend GM.

While I love analysis like this. I think it will come down to. Is OT the best value in the draft at the Packers pick? If so TT will probably go their. Simple as that.I doubt TT is doing this research.

Oh and btw, I hope that's the case; because we need it.

I think early that was his philosophy but last year may have signalled a change. This year he has said he will do anything to improve the team.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

top notch Left Tackles go very early in the draft, it won't be good value to take a LT at the Packers spot.

What're you talking about?

Texans: Duane Brown (first, No. 26)

Chiefs: Branden Albert (first, No. 15)

Lions: Jeff Backus (first, No. 18)

49ers: Joe Staley (first, No. 28)

Rams: Alex Barron (first, No. 19)

Falcons: Sam Baker (first, No. 21)

I personally think Al Bracco could be FOS. Next we'll get an article about how the hybrid DE/LB can be found later in the draft. Then we'll hear about how deep the DB's are in this draft. And on and on by these kind of guys who analyze and overanalyze it while they play pretend GM.

While I love analysis like this. I think it will come down to. Is OT the best value in the draft at the Packers pick? If so TT will probably go their. Simple as that.I doubt TT is doing this research.

Oh and btw, I hope that's the case; because we need it.

I think early that was his philosophy but last year may have signalled a change. This year he has said he will do anything to improve the team.

If that's the case I hope he's talking to Carolina right now to see if they'd be willing to move Deangelo Williams for maybe James Jones and a 3rd rounder. That would improve the team. Or he's talking to Dunta Robinson's agent right now. Or maybe Pepper's agent.I doubt any of that's happening. I don't hate on TT but his version of doing anything to improve the team will be 2nd and 3rd rate FA's, and then through the draft. I'll believe more when I see more.

 

[The Real Hipster Doofus]

While I love analysis like this. I think it will come down to. Is OT the best value in the draft at the Packers pick? If so TT will probably go their. Simple as that.

I doubt TT is doing this research.

Oh and btw, I hope that's the case; because we need it.

I think early that was his philosophy but last year may have signalled a change. This year he has said he will do anything to improve the team.

If that's the case I hope he's talking to Carolina right now to see if they'd be willing to move Deangelo Williams for maybe James Jones and a 3rd rounder. That would improve the team. Or he's talking to Dunta Robinson's agent right now. Or maybe Pepper's agent.I doubt any of that's happening. I don't hate on TT but his version of doing anything to improve the team will be 2nd and 3rd rate FA's, and then through the draft. I'll believe more when I see more.

Why, is the Carolina GM trying to get fired?

 

[Jewell]

Pretty hard to speculate who the Pack will take at that point in the 1st round. Way too many picks before they draft. If there is a good OT left that's high on the Packers board they will take him but I don't see Thompson reaching here like drafting Charles Brown here. If there are a couple of guys with very similar grades I would think GB goes with the offensive lineman but I'm not sure the draft is going to fall that way.

How do you know it's a reach? Because Toddy McShay says so?

I love this point. I'm a Patriots fan and I remember a few years ago when the Pats took Logan Mankins in the first round. Most of the so called "experts" described it as a reach. Mankins has been a force ever since and has made a couple of Pro-Bowl trips. The moral of the story -- trust your scouts and not some guy with helmet hair on ESPN.

 

[Sabertooth]

I think Ted has shown that not only does he not care about what the Kipers and McShay's think, but also that he is way smarter than them when it comes to lining up a board.

It could very well be a player that is ranked by the consensus to be 35th best. But I don't put much stock in that. He was panned for taking Matthews ahead of Mauluga, also for taking Jones, Collins, and Jenning well before they were projected. I trust him when it comes to the draft and look forward to it every year.

Now take Mike Sherman, he always took the sexy pick and look where it got him. Although I do give him credit for taking taking his shots.

 

[Pipes]

Pretty hard to speculate who the Pack will take at that point in the 1st round. Way too many picks before they draft. If there is a good OT left that's high on the Packers board they will take him but I don't see Thompson reaching here like drafting Charles Brown here. If there are a couple of guys with very similar grades I would think GB goes with the offensive lineman but I'm not sure the draft is going to fall that way.

How do you know it's a reach? Because Toddy McShay says so?

I love this point. I'm a Patriots fan and I remember a few years ago when the Pats took Logan Mankins in the first round. Most of the so called "experts" described it as a reach. Mankins has been a force ever since and has made a couple of Pro-Bowl trips. The moral of the story -- trust your scouts and not some guy with helmet hair on ESPN.

True but Charles Brown is just a name I threw out there. If GB scouts rate him highly and he's the best player on the Packers board they'll take him. My point is Thompson isn't going to reach for a player to fill a need when there are more highly regarded player on the board. If the Packers scouts have Brown ranked as a early 2nd round pick (as most of the "experts" do) and there are some other ranked ahead of him on their board they will go will their board and not a position of need. Reaching for a certain position is a good way to screw up a draft. Again nothing against Brown, he's just an example I used.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

From Packerchatters

by Al Bracco | February 26th, 2010

just noting that this is not originally from Packechatters, but from Jersey Al's Packer blog. http://www.jerseyal.com/GBP/

I've found his blog to be pretty good, although I don't necessarily follow his position on this post. Packerchatters = generally a waste of time in my experience.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

While I love analysis like this. I think it will come down to. Is OT the best value in the draft at the Packers pick? If so TT will probably go their. Simple as that.

I doubt TT is doing this research.

Oh and btw, I hope that's the case; because we need it.

I think early that was his philosophy but last year may have signalled a change. This year he has said he will do anything to improve the team.

If that's the case I hope he's talking to Carolina right now to see if they'd be willing to move Deangelo Williams for maybe James Jones and a 3rd rounder. That would improve the team. Or he's talking to Dunta Robinson's agent right now. Or maybe Pepper's agent.I doubt any of that's happening. I don't hate on TT but his version of doing anything to improve the team will be 2nd and 3rd rate FA's, and then through the draft. I'll believe more when I see more.

Why, is the Carolina GM trying to get fired?

Why's that so crazy? Adding a big, solid NFL WR which is something Carolina's in dire need of, plus a third rounder when the Panthers already have Stewart? Besides, the Carolina GM probably is trying to get fired based on the contract they offered Delhomme before the 2009 season

 

[Cassius]

While I love analysis like this. I think it will come down to. Is OT the best value in the draft at the Packers pick? If so TT will probably go their. Simple as that.

I doubt TT is doing this research.

Oh and btw, I hope that's the case; because we need it.

I think early that was his philosophy but last year may have signalled a change. This year he has said he will do anything to improve the team.

If that's the case I hope he's talking to Carolina right now to see if they'd be willing to move Deangelo Williams for maybe James Jones and a 3rd rounder. That would improve the team. Or he's talking to Dunta Robinson's agent right now. Or maybe Pepper's agent.I doubt any of that's happening. I don't hate on TT but his version of doing anything to improve the team will be 2nd and 3rd rate FA's, and then through the draft. I'll believe more when I see more.

Why, is the Carolina GM trying to get fired?

Why's that so crazy? Adding a big, solid NFL WR which is something Carolina's in dire need of, plus a third rounder when the Panthers already have Stewart? Besides, the Carolina GM probably is trying to get fired based on the contract they offered Delhomme before the 2009 season

Terrible trade for Carolina.

 

[FUBAR]

FWIW, I was reading a little on my guy, Jared Veldheer -

The Packers appear to be hot on the trail of a talented left tackle prospect from well off the beaten path. The All-American talked to Ted Thompson at a college all-star game and talked to the Packers again at the Scouting Combine on Thursday.

The Green Bay Packers are one of the teams with big offensive line needs. General manager Ted Thompson tracked down Veldheer at the Texas vs. The Nation all-star game and made sure his offensive line coach was first in line to chat with Veldheer at the Combine.

pretty sure none of this means anything but he could make sense in round 2

 

[FUBAR]

Terrible trade for Carolina.

FF fans love good RBs, NFL GMs less so. If you think Jones is a decent WR it's not a bad deal. I don't see it happening, but it's not terrible.

 

[werdnoynek]

I think Ted has shown that not only does he not care about what the Kipers and McShay's think, but also that he is way smarter than them when it comes to lining up a board. It could very well be a player that is ranked by the consensus to be 35th best. But I don't put much stock in that. He was panned for taking Matthews ahead of Mauluga, also for taking Jones, Collins, and Jenning well before they were projected. I trust him when it comes to the draft and look forward to it every year. Now take Mike Sherman, he always took the sexy pick and look where it got him. Although I do give him credit for taking taking his shots.

 

[Cassius]

Terrible trade for Carolina.

FF fans love good RBs, NFL GMs less so. If you think Jones is a decent WR it's not a bad deal. I don't see it happening, but it's not terrible.

Pretty sure GMs love good RB's when the RB is literally the engine that makes the offense run. WTF has James Jones done? Carolina's supposed to trade their best offensive player because he's "decent and big?"Terrible is the only word for it.

 

[FUBAR]

Terrible trade for Carolina.

FF fans love good RBs, NFL GMs less so. If you think Jones is a decent WR it's not a bad deal. I don't see it happening, but it's not terrible.

Pretty sure GMs love good RB's when the RB is literally the engine that makes the offense run. WTF has James Jones done? Carolina's supposed to trade their best offensive player because he's "decent and big?"Terrible is the only word for it.

You make a fair point on the RBs driving that team which is why they won't do it, I took your "terrible" as meaning no team would consider doing something like this.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

I think Ted has shown that not only does he not care about what the Kipers and McShay's think, but also that he is way smarter than them when it comes to lining up a board. It could very well be a player that is ranked by the consensus to be 35th best. But I don't put much stock in that. He was panned for taking Matthews ahead of Mauluga, also for taking Jones, Collins, and Jenning well before they were projected. I trust him when it comes to the draft and look forward to it every year. Now take Mike Sherman, he always took the sexy pick and look where it got him. Although I do give him credit for taking taking his shots.

I don't remember TT being panned for taking Jones, Collins or Jennings. Matthews? Yes. I remember that vividly. I also remember him being panned for taking Justin Harrell. That didn't work out so hot.

 

[Mario Kart]

There are some great punter prospects that should be around during Round 3 that would work great for the Packers. It has been proven that left foot kicking punters are like left handed pitchers in baseball... top notch players to have. Do it.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

Terrible trade for Carolina.

FF fans love good RBs, NFL GMs less so. If you think Jones is a decent WR it's not a bad deal. I don't see it happening, but it's not terrible.

Pretty sure GMs love good RB's when the RB is literally the engine that makes the offense run. WTF has James Jones done? Carolina's supposed to trade their best offensive player because he's "decent and big?"Terrible is the only word for it.

I just mentioned it as a potential trade. Carolina has an aging Steve Smith and absolutely nothing else at WR. Jones is being held back strictly because Jennings and Driver are ahead of him. His game reminds me of Anquan Boldin. Nasty after the catch. He'd be a very solid #2 in Carolina. And if Carolina chooses to keep the engine that makes the offense run, they have to win next year.....because in 2011 that engine will be playing for someone else.In other words, I don't think it's quite as "Terrible" as you like to think it is.

 

[Cassius]

Terrible trade for Carolina.

FF fans love good RBs, NFL GMs less so. If you think Jones is a decent WR it's not a bad deal. I don't see it happening, but it's not terrible.

Pretty sure GMs love good RB's when the RB is literally the engine that makes the offense run. WTF has James Jones done? Carolina's supposed to trade their best offensive player because he's "decent and big?"Terrible is the only word for it.

I just mentioned it as a potential trade. Carolina has an aging Steve Smith and absolutely nothing else at WR. Jones is being held back strictly because Jennings and Driver are ahead of him. His game reminds me of Anquan Boldin. Nasty after the catch. He'd be a very solid #2 in Carolina. And if Carolina chooses to keep the engine that makes the offense run, they have to win next year.....because in 2011 that engine will be playing for someone else.In other words, I don't think it's quite as "Terrible" as you like to think it is.

Shocking that all these Packer fans think it's a great idea for another team to give up their best offensive player for GB's #3 WR.

 

[Balco]

Once again, I will say it, the Packers need to take the best player available. If that is a tackle great. But they cannot draft for need if there are better players on the board. Remember when the Pack was looking for a left tackle after the Ken Reuttgers era was over? They drafted for need and got . . . Jon Michels. No thanks.

 

[Sabertooth]

I think Ted has shown that not only does he not care about what the Kipers and McShay's think, but also that he is way smarter than them when it comes to lining up a board. It could very well be a player that is ranked by the consensus to be 35th best. But I don't put much stock in that. He was panned for taking Matthews ahead of Mauluga, also for taking Jones, Collins, and Jenning well before they were projected. I trust him when it comes to the draft and look forward to it every year. Now take Mike Sherman, he always took the sexy pick and look where it got him. Although I do give him credit for taking taking his shots.

I don't remember TT being panned for taking Jones, Collins or Jennings. Matthews? Yes. I remember that vividly. I also remember him being panned for taking Justin Harrell. That didn't work out so hot.

You are suffering from selective memory if you don't recall him being panned for taking "5th round" prospects like Collins and Jennings in the second round. He missed out on Chad Jackson after all when he swapped back with New England. Harrell has suffered from injuries. I don't see how that can be placed at Ted's feet.

 

[Sabertooth]

Once again, I will say it, the Packers need to take the best player available. If that is a tackle great. But they cannot draft for need if there are better players on the board. Remember when the Pack was looking for a left tackle after the Ken Reuttgers era was over? They drafted for need and got . . . Jon Michels. No thanks.

Agreed and only one pick after Ray Lewis went to Baltimore...ouch.

 

[Balco]

I think Ted has shown that not only does he not care about what the Kipers and McShay's think, but also that he is way smarter than them when it comes to lining up a board. It could very well be a player that is ranked by the consensus to be 35th best. But I don't put much stock in that. He was panned for taking Matthews ahead of Mauluga, also for taking Jones, Collins, and Jenning well before they were projected. I trust him when it comes to the draft and look forward to it every year. Now take Mike Sherman, he always took the sexy pick and look where it got him. Although I do give him credit for taking taking his shots.

I don't remember TT being panned for taking Jones, Collins or Jennings. Matthews? Yes. I remember that vividly. I also remember him being panned for taking Justin Harrell. That didn't work out so hot.

You are suffering from selective memory if you don't recall him being panned for taking "5th round" prospects like Collins and Jennings in the second round. He missed out on Chad Jackson after all when he swapped back with New England. Harrell has suffered from injuries. I don't see how that can be placed at Ted's feet.

I remember the posters freaking out when they passed over Chad Jackson. I mean, he fell right into the Packers laps! And they traded down from a no name from a small school in Michigan!!!! The horror!

 

[FUBAR]

Once again, I will say it, the Packers need to take the best player available. If that is a tackle great. But they cannot draft for need if there are better players on the board. Remember when the Pack was looking for a left tackle after the Ken Reuttgers era was over? They drafted for need and got . . . Jon Michels. No thanks.

at least Tony Mandarich worked out well for you.

1	1989	1	1	Troy Aikman HOF	QB	DAL	2	1989	1	2	Tony Mandarich	T	GNB	3	1989	1	3	Barry Sanders HOF	RB	DET4	1989	1	4	Derrick Thomas HOF	LB	KAN5	1989	1	5	Deion Sanders	DB	ATL

 

[Mario Kart]

Harrell has suffered from injuries. I don't see how that can be placed at Ted's feet.

Harrell has suffered from injuries in the pros. He also suffered injuries in college that were more than minor and he was nursing an injury when he was drafted. You don't want to put that one on Thompson? Given the team at the time as well where that first rounder, if used elsewhere, could have been an impact player that year and helped the team. Instead the Packers got an injury riddled player that has remained injured.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

I think Ted has shown that not only does he not care about what the Kipers and McShay's think, but also that he is way smarter than them when it comes to lining up a board. It could very well be a player that is ranked by the consensus to be 35th best. But I don't put much stock in that. He was panned for taking Matthews ahead of Mauluga, also for taking Jones, Collins, and Jenning well before they were projected. I trust him when it comes to the draft and look forward to it every year. Now take Mike Sherman, he always took the sexy pick and look where it got him. Although I do give him credit for taking taking his shots.

I don't remember TT being panned for taking Jones, Collins or Jennings. Matthews? Yes. I remember that vividly. I also remember him being panned for taking Justin Harrell. That didn't work out so hot.

You are suffering from selective memory if you don't recall him being panned for taking "5th round" prospects like Collins and Jennings in the second round. He missed out on Chad Jackson after all when he swapped back with New England. Harrell has suffered from injuries. I don't see how that can be placed at Ted's feet.

Saber - I'm not doubting you at all. In fairness, I rarely spent time on FBG back then, so it doesn't surprise me that people here were bashing the picks. I'll take your word for it on all counts.Flip side: I do recall questions about passing on Chad Jackson, but also recall that by the time training camp rolled around, GB's WR coach was already saying that Jennings was more pro-ready than Marvin Harrison had been as a rookie. So pretty quickly, nobody gave two ####s about Chad Jackson.I wasn't *blaming* TT for Harrell -- but let's face it, Harrell had injury issues when TT drafted him. That pick was a serious reach, and PLENTY of people called it at the time. Those skeptics have been proven correct (of course it's like winning a coin flip). Matthews...heck, I wasn't sold on the pick, it seemed like a reach, but so far TT looks like a genius.

 

[LAUNCH]

Once again, I will say it, the Packers need to take the best player available. If that is a tackle great. But they cannot draft for need if there are better players on the board. Remember when the Pack was looking for a left tackle after the Ken Reuttgers era was over? They drafted for need and got . . . Jon Michels. No thanks.

Wolf: "I had an opportunity that year to trade down, which would have left on our board [defensive end] Tony Brackens, plus I would have gotten another third rounder out of it. But I opted not to do that. That was one time where I was blinded by taking a need pick. We needed an offensive lineman. It was an idiotic decision on my part."

I agree that he should have traded down, but this quote always bugged me about Wolf. The real problem wasn't that he took a tackle with that pick, it was the fact that his rankings of the tackles was wrong. Had he taken Runyan instead of Michels his opinion of that pick probably would be different now. I was at the Hall of Fame dinner the year he was taken and half-jokingly asked him if we were going to ever be having one of these for him and the look he gave me struck me so strangely. It was kind of a mixture of you've got to be kidding me and hurt, which was weird because they had just won the Superbowl.

 

[KingPrawn]

I think Ted has shown that not only does he not care about what the Kipers and McShay's think, but also that he is way smarter than them when it comes to lining up a board. It could very well be a player that is ranked by the consensus to be 35th best. But I don't put much stock in that. He was panned for taking Matthews ahead of Mauluga, also for taking Jones, Collins, and Jenning well before they were projected. I trust him when it comes to the draft and look forward to it every year. Now take Mike Sherman, he always took the sexy pick and look where it got him. Although I do give him credit for taking taking his shots.

I don't remember TT being panned for taking Jones, Collins or Jennings. Matthews? Yes. I remember that vividly. I also remember him being panned for taking Justin Harrell. That didn't work out so hot.

You are suffering from selective memory if you don't recall him being panned for taking "5th round" prospects like Collins and Jennings in the second round. He missed out on Chad Jackson after all when he swapped back with New England. Harrell has suffered from injuries. I don't see how that can be placed at Ted's feet.

TT has proven to be right way more times than wrong. His track record speaks for itself. And on draft day it seems he is almost always criticized for passing over the sexy pick for a lesser known player that proves to be the right choice once training camp opens. Harrell may have been a mistake but show me one GM that is 100% on his picks. Remember Jamal Reynolds? Ron Wolfe traded up from 17th to the 10th pick and Matt Hasselback to get him. Can't hit on them all.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

TT has proven to be right way more times than wrong. His track record speaks for itself. And on draft day it seems he is almost always criticized for passing over the sexy pick for a lesser known player that proves to be the right choice once training camp opens. Harrell may have been a mistake but show me one GM that is 100% on his picks. Remember Jamal Reynolds? Ron Wolfe traded up from 17th to the 10th pick and Matt Hasselback to get him. Can't hit on them all.

Where in that train of posts did you see anyone disagree with your bolded comment?Unrelated: people are living in fantasy land if they think Carolina is trading Deangelo to an NFC team (or trading him at all, for that matter)

 

[KingPrawn]

TT has proven to be right way more times than wrong. His track record speaks for itself. And on draft day it seems he is almost always criticized for passing over the sexy pick for a lesser known player that proves to be the right choice once training camp opens. Harrell may have been a mistake but show me one GM that is 100% on his picks. Remember Jamal Reynolds? Ron Wolfe traded up from 17th to the 10th pick and Matt Hasselback to get him. Can't hit on them all.

Where in that train of posts did you see anyone disagree with your bolded comment?Unrelated: people are living in fantasy land if they think Carolina is trading Deangelo to an NFC team (or trading him at all, for that matter)

I didn't say anyone did. My point was that TT may miss on a few but he is right many more times than he is wrong.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

Terrible trade for Carolina.

FF fans love good RBs, NFL GMs less so. If you think Jones is a decent WR it's not a bad deal. I don't see it happening, but it's not terrible.

Pretty sure GMs love good RB's when the RB is literally the engine that makes the offense run. WTF has James Jones done? Carolina's supposed to trade their best offensive player because he's "decent and big?"Terrible is the only word for it.

I just mentioned it as a potential trade. Carolina has an aging Steve Smith and absolutely nothing else at WR. Jones is being held back strictly because Jennings and Driver are ahead of him. His game reminds me of Anquan Boldin. Nasty after the catch. He'd be a very solid #2 in Carolina. And if Carolina chooses to keep the engine that makes the offense run, they have to win next year.....because in 2011 that engine will be playing for someone else.In other words, I don't think it's quite as "Terrible" as you like to think it is.

Shocking that all these Packer fans think it's a great idea for another team to give up their best offensive player for GB's #3 WR.

Deangelo being Carolina's best offensive player is arguable. And because GB's #3 WR would move directly to the head of the class when he joined the Panthers receiving corps. It's a joke how much better he is than anyone not named Steve Smith in Carolina. Plus they'd be getting a 3rd round pick as well, of course but you don't seem to value that at all.Maybe you're right because the GM and Coach are on the hotseat. They'd be too scared to make that move. But that doesn't mean it's not the right move for their team.You seem quite sure of yourself though so I feel pretty safe in saying you'll blow this post off too

 

[Sabertooth]

Harrell has suffered from injuries. I don't see how that can be placed at Ted's feet.

Harrell has suffered from injuries in the pros. He also suffered injuries in college that were more than minor and he was nursing an injury when he was drafted. You don't want to put that one on Thompson? Given the team at the time as well where that first rounder, if used elsewhere, could have been an impact player that year and helped the team. Instead the Packers got an injury riddled player that has remained injured.

He hasn't remained injured. If I recall, they are different injuries. I might be wrong. I thought he had a biceps injury when he was drafted. The details are foggy. All that said, he's still on the team, maybe he gets it together this season?

 

[Sabertooth]

I think Ted has shown that not only does he not care about what the Kipers and McShay's think, but also that he is way smarter than them when it comes to lining up a board. It could very well be a player that is ranked by the consensus to be 35th best. But I don't put much stock in that. He was panned for taking Matthews ahead of Mauluga, also for taking Jones, Collins, and Jenning well before they were projected. I trust him when it comes to the draft and look forward to it every year. Now take Mike Sherman, he always took the sexy pick and look where it got him. Although I do give him credit for taking taking his shots.

I don't remember TT being panned for taking Jones, Collins or Jennings. Matthews? Yes. I remember that vividly. I also remember him being panned for taking Justin Harrell. That didn't work out so hot.

You are suffering from selective memory if you don't recall him being panned for taking "5th round" prospects like Collins and Jennings in the second round. He missed out on Chad Jackson after all when he swapped back with New England. Harrell has suffered from injuries. I don't see how that can be placed at Ted's feet.

TT has proven to be right way more times than wrong. His track record speaks for itself. And on draft day it seems he is almost always criticized for passing over the sexy pick for a lesser known player that proves to be the right choice once training camp opens. Harrell may have been a mistake but show me one GM that is 100% on his picks. Remember Jamal Reynolds? Ron Wolfe traded up from 17th to the 10th pick and Matt Hasselback to get him. Can't hit on them all.

Yeah, and the Seahawks selected Steve Hutchinson with that pick. Ouch.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

Harrell has suffered from injuries. I don't see how that can be placed at Ted's feet.

Harrell has suffered from injuries in the pros. He also suffered injuries in college that were more than minor and he was nursing an injury when he was drafted. You don't want to put that one on Thompson? Given the team at the time as well where that first rounder, if used elsewhere, could have been an impact player that year and helped the team. Instead the Packers got an injury riddled player that has remained injured.

He hasn't remained injured. If I recall, they are different injuries. I might be wrong. I thought he had a biceps injury when he was drafted. The details are foggy. All that said, he's still on the team, maybe he gets it together this season?

You are correct, he had a torn biceps his senior year.

 

[Dexter Manley]

Terrible trade for Carolina.

FF fans love good RBs, NFL GMs less so. If you think Jones is a decent WR it's not a bad deal. I don't see it happening, but it's not terrible.

Pretty sure GMs love good RB's when the RB is literally the engine that makes the offense run. WTF has James Jones done? Carolina's supposed to trade their best offensive player because he's "decent and big?"Terrible is the only word for it.

I just mentioned it as a potential trade. Carolina has an aging Steve Smith and absolutely nothing else at WR. Jones is being held back strictly because Jennings and Driver are ahead of him. His game reminds me of Anquan Boldin. Nasty after the catch. He'd be a very solid #2 in Carolina. And if Carolina chooses to keep the engine that makes the offense run, they have to win next year.....because in 2011 that engine will be playing for someone else.In other words, I don't think it's quite as "Terrible" as you like to think it is.

Shocking that all these Packer fans think it's a great idea for another team to give up their best offensive player for GB's #3 WR.

I think a better trade for the Packers would be to send Aaron Rodgers to the Redskins for Jason Campbell and the Skins #1 pick. That way GB can get the top OT in the draft and will still have a young qb to build around.

 

[sho nuff]

There are some great punter prospects that should be around during Round 3 that would work great for the Packers. It has been proven that left foot kicking punters are like left handed pitchers in baseball... top notch players to have. Do it.

Nah...Sherman is gone...no more moving up to draft a punter.

 

[DesmondBishop]

Deangelo Williams would look quite good in green and gold. Too bad the likelihood of that happening is just between slim and none... at least this year.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

There are some great punter prospects that should be around during Round 3 that would work great for the Packers. It has been proven that left foot kicking punters are like left handed pitchers in baseball... top notch players to have. Do it.

Nah...Sherman is gone...no more moving up to draft a punter.

Ugh. We'll have to live with the memory of BJ Sander forever.

 

[sho nuff]

There are some great punter prospects that should be around during Round 3 that would work great for the Packers. It has been proven that left foot kicking punters are like left handed pitchers in baseball... top notch players to have. Do it.

Nah...Sherman is gone...no more moving up to draft a punter.

Ugh. We'll have to live with the memory of BJ Sander forever.

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

 

[Sabertooth]

There are some great punter prospects that should be around during Round 3 that would work great for the Packers. It has been proven that left foot kicking punters are like left handed pitchers in baseball... top notch players to have. Do it.

Nah...Sherman is gone...no more moving up to draft a punter.

Ugh. We'll have to live with the memory of BJ Sander forever.

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

There is a BJ joke in there somewhere.

 

[sho nuff]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/85928982.html

Unless they make Iupati into a tackle...looks like he may be off their board by the sound of this article.

Looks as if they plan on keeping Colledge and Spitz around to compete at LG. Unless they draft the rookie and only intend on keeping one of these guys around for just a year. But sure seems like they feel set with Colledge/Spitz at RG, Wells at C, and Sitton at RG...with Spitz able to backup all 3 positions.

 

[Sabertooth]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/85928982.html

Unless they make Iupati into a tackle...looks like he may be off their board by the sound of this article.

Looks as if they plan on keeping Colledge and Spitz around to compete at LG. Unless they draft the rookie and only intend on keeping one of these guys around for just a year. But sure seems like they feel set with Colledge/Spitz at RG, Wells at C, and Sitton at RG...with Spitz able to backup all 3 positions.

The problem with the Packers line is that all the players are backups. Colledge, Spitz, even to some extent Wells are all ok, but not the caliber of player you need to have starting on a team that looks to go deep in the playoffs. None of these guys start for the Saints for instance. They are "just guys" that have been starting by default. I'd love Green Bay to bring in some veterans to compete. Not sure what is available but even higher end journeymen would be better than these guys who keep playing mediocre football time after time. They don't suck. But they aren't good either. Mediocre is the best way to describe them.