Parcells in the HOF? (1 Viewer)

[PMENFAN]

In reading this article http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9947998?nfl012207 I got to thinking, and I don't think he does, and if he does, it's marginally.

My knocks on Parcells coincide with the author. He's never won a playoff game withou Bill Belichick. IN fack, he's barely above a .500 coach without BB. That's stunning. The hallmarks of the Giants, Pats and Jets were the Defenses, and they were all BB. Do we put him in for hiring Belichick? I don't think so.

The article goes on to talk about his lack of innovation. Never brought anything special to the game.

Is he a good coach? Yes. A very good coach? Absolutely? A great coach? I just can't guy that. He's "there" because of two SB wins. I think that's enough.

One other thing it mentions is that should he be in because of two Superbowl wins? Tom Flores has two Superbowl wins. Is he a HOF coach?

 

[ATRAIN56]

Parcells=HOF 1st ballet.... No questions ask. When he took over the Jets the they were a combined 2-30 in the 2 years prior. During is tenure with the Jets he ended up 34-20. Thats a HUGE difference. He did the same with New England. He won a Super Bowl with a back up QB (Hostetler) when Simms went out for the season...

 

[Texasmouth]

Every team Parcells has gone to has been better with him there. The Cowboys were a piece of floating garbage when he took over. Now, they are a legitimate playoff team and should have made it to at least the second round of the playoffs.

First ballot, all day, every day and twice on Sundays.

 

[PMENFAN]

Parcells=HOF 1st ballet.... No questions ask. When he took over the Jets the they were a combined 2-30 in the 2 years prior. During is tenure with the Jets he ended up 34-20. Thats a HUGE difference. He did the same with New England. He won a Super Bowl with a back up QB (Hostetler) when Simms went out for the season...

He was already a 1st ballot, and 2nd ballot HOFer, 2001 and 2002. So, he wasn't a first ballot HOFer. He didn't make it. So, he wasn't a first ballot HOFer. After he "retired", and "would never coach again". Maybe this stint in Dallas had something to do w/ that? In addition to money? 2001 and 2002

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/YearlyFinalists.jsp

Here's the list of finalists-Caps got in.

2002

*GEORGE ALLEN4

Harry Carson3

DAVE CASPER3

L.C. Greenwood4

Ray Guy5

DAN HAMPTON2

Lester Hayes2

JIM KELLY

Bob Kuechenberg

James Lofton2

Art Modell

Art Monk2

Bill Parcells2

Donnie Shell

JOHN STALLWORTH8

2001

*NICK BUONICONTI

Harry Carson2

Dave Casper2

Dan Hampton

Lester Hayes

MARV LEVY3

Art Monk

MIKE MUNCHAK2

Bill Parcells

JACKIE SLATER

John Stallworth7

LYNN SWANN14

Ralph Wilson, Jr.

RON YARY6

JACK YOUNGBLOOD8

 

[PMENFAN]

Every team Parcells has gone to has been better with him there. The Cowboys were a piece of floating garbage when he took over. Now, they are a legitimate playoff team and should have made it to at least the second round of the playoffs. First ballot, all day, every day and twice on Sundays.

Legitimate playoff team? How'd they close the season? By losing to the LIONS? They're far from a ligitimate playoff team. They got in at 9-7 w/ a 2-4 division record. Yes, the teams got better. I'm not saying he's not a good coach. He is. I'm saying he's not one of the all time greats. And further, I'm saying he's never won a playoff game without Bill Belichick, and his record without Bill Belichick is 34-32, or barely above .500. And, thats playing in a very weak NFC. His most impressive turnarounds were with BB as the DC. We've seen what BB did without him. Parcells has done nothing without BB. That speaks volumes. Dallas has actually regressed under his reign. They improved his first year, but that's it. They've gotten more talent, but it hasn't translated to wins. That's on the coach. He didn't get in in 2001 and 2002, and I think his stint in Dallas diminished his chances. I'm just sayin'.

 

[David Yudkin]

IMO, at the time most everyone suspected that Parcells would return to coaching and his "retirement" was only temporary. He certainly has the credentials to be a HOF coach, so it's just a matter of when people think he's truly done coaching before they start voting for him en masse.

 

[Tau837]

Is Parcells the only coach to get three different franchises to the conference championship game? I believe so.

How many coaches have gotten two franchises to the Super Bowl? I know Holmgren is another.

How many coaches have won two Super Bowls and are not in the HOF? I believe Parcells, Belichick, Shanahan, Jimmy Johnson, and Flores are the only ones. In addition to other accomplishments, just look at the career records of these guys:

Parcells 172-130-1

Shanahan 131-81

Belichick 111-81

Johnson 80-64

Flores 97-87

IMO Parcells is a lock. Belichick is also a lock due to the three Super Bowl wins. Shanahan is still going and could easily end up with one of the best coaching records of all time, along with two Super Bowls. I think he'll make it. Johnson's record is not overly impressive due to his relatively short tenure as an NFL head coach... but he built one of the relatively few dynasties in the history of the NFL. His case is interesting. IMO Flores is easily the least impressive of this group, and won't make it... and shouldn't be used as a comparable for Parcells.

Edit: For completeness, I forgot Seifert won two Super Bowls. His career record is 114-62. The problem for Seifert is that he took over a dynasty, and thus does not deserve full credit IMO.

Also, all the records I cited were regular season only.

 

[Capella]

100% lock. It's not even worth talking about.

 

[Capella]

You know you're reading a bad article when you start seeing logic like this:

What isn't fair is to say he belongs in the Hall because he won two Super Bowls. Because he doesn't. Hey, Tom Flores won two Super Bowls. So did George Seifert. Jimmy Johnson did, too. I don't recall seeing those guys in Canton.

Not sure who "Clark Judge" is, but hopefully I don't subject myself to his articles again.

 

[Pat Patriot]

In reading this article http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9947998?nfl012207 I got to thinking, and I don't think he does, and if he does, it's marginally.

My knocks on Parcells coincide with the author. He's never won a playoff game withou Bill Belichick. IN fack, he's barely above a .500 coach without BB. That's stunning. The hallmarks of the Giants, Pats and Jets were the Defenses, and they were all BB. Do we put him in for hiring Belichick? I don't think so.

The article goes on to talk about his lack of innovation. Never brought anything special to the game.

Is he a good coach? Yes. A very good coach? Absolutely? A great coach? I just can't guy that. He's "there" because of two SB wins. I think that's enough.

One other thing it mentions is that should he be in because of two Superbowl wins? Tom Flores has two Superbowl wins. Is he a HOF coach?

You really embarass yourself. People have to stop with the "He never won anything without Belichick" crap. Belichick is a great coach but he doesnt walk on water. Parcells was the head coach of 2 SB teams, another that made it to the Bowl and lost, and a third different team that made it to the AFC Championship game.He is the DEFINITION of a HOF coach.

 

[redman]

First of all, whether you think he deserves to get in or not, he's a lock as a practical matter. He's too well-regarded in the football world for that not to be the case. He was probably a lock as of ten years ago when he got the Pats to the Super Bowl.

Second, I agree that his career of late is not what it was and I've posted actually that he has a declining career track based upon how far he was ultimately able to take each team. Nevertheless, he got to three Super Bowls in 19 seasons of coaching, or almost 1 in 6. Very few coaches can claim that.

As for Belichick, there's no doubt he benefitted from him, but this is an argument you can make as to any coach out there.

Parcells: Belichick

Walsh: Montana

Gibbs: Jacoby, Grimm & Bostic (three-fifths of the Hogs) & Monk

Knoll: Bradshaw and a laundry list of other players

Lombardi: Starr, et al

Shanahan: Elway & Davis

The bottom line is that he's done everything that you could ask a coach to do over the course of a career, winning consistently throughout. Why wouldn't he get in?

 

[code]

Is Parcells the only coach to get three different franchises to the conference championship game? I believe so.How many coaches have gotten two franchises to the Super Bowl? I know Holmgren is another.How many coaches have won two Super Bowls and are not or will not be in the HOF? I believe Parcells, Belichick, Shanahan, Jimmy Johnson, and Flores are the only ones. In addition to other accomplishments, just look at the career records of these guysarcells 172-130-1Shanahan 131-81Belichick 111-81Johnson 80-64Flores 97-87IMO Parcells is a lock. Belichick is also a lock due to the three Super Bowl wins. Shanahan is still going and could easily end up with one of the best coaching records of all time, along with two Super Bowls. I think he'll make it. Johnson's record is not overly impressive due to his relatively short tenure as an NFL head coach... but he built one of the relatively few dynasties in the history of the NFL. His case is interesting. IMO Flores is easily the least impressive of this group, and won't make it... and shouldn't be used as a comparable for Parcells.

Solid discussion about this exact topic on ESPN:M&M this morning...of his contemporaries he easily makes the top five, arguably only behind Walsh, Gibbs, and Belichick...Levy, Shanahan, J.Johnson and Holmgren all come after him in the discussion...(noting that Gibbs and Levy are already in)...

 

[Ghost Rider]

He'll easily make it. And he should, based on his body of work prior to his stint in Dallas.

 

[comfortably numb]

BB (as a headcoach) never won a Superbowl without Brady.

So, that means????

I will say what Parcells said, you are what your record is.

Parcells record

183-138-1

3 Superbowl appreances

Thats pretty good IMO

 

[code]

Coaches with more than one Super Bowl appearance:

C.Noll 4-0

B.Belichick 3-0

B.Walsh 3-0

J.Gibbs 3-1

G.Seifert 2-0

J.Johnson 2-0

M.Shanahan 2-0

T.Flores 2-0

V.Lombardi 2-0

B.Parcells 2-1

T.Landry 2-3

D.Shula 2-4

B.Cowher 1-1

D.Vermeil 1-1

H.Stram 1-1

D.Holmgren 1-2

B.Grant 0-4

D.Reeves 0-4

M.Levy 0-4

Coaches with Super Bowl appearances with more than one team:

B.Parcells NYG, NE

D.Reeves DEN, ATL

D.Vermeil PHI, STL

D.Shula BAL, MIA

D.Holmgren GB, SEA

(and M&M made the argument that Gibbs made it with 3 very different teams all in WAS)

For reference here's the Super Bowl Coaches

 

[Chase Stuart]

Parcells=HOF 1st ballet.... No questions ask. When he took over the Jets the they were a combined 2-30 in the 2 years prior. During is tenure with the Jets he ended up 34-20. Thats a HUGE difference. He did the same with New England. He won a Super Bowl with a back up QB (Hostetler) when Simms went out for the season...

Parcells was 29-19 with the Jets, and they were 4-26 in the two years prior. They were also 28-20 in the three years post.

 

[Banger]

He's in without a doubt.

 

[H.K.]

People have to stop with the "He never won anything without Belichick" crap.

The funny thing about people trying to discredit Parcells using that flawed logic is that they forget that Parcells was the one in charge giving Belichick jobs. Therefore, he deserves even more credit for recognizing and cultivating Belichick's talent. Parcells made Belichick, not the other way around. Bill Walsh gets credit for having his former coaches succeed, Parcells deserves just as much. If Belichick was so great, he would have turned around the Browns in his first coaching gig, but he failed....and who did he go running back to? Big Daddy Tuna.Parcells finished his career with only 5 losing seasons in 19 years. Belichick had five losing seasons by his 6th year.

 

[culdeus]

lol at 1st ballot.

 

[David Yudkin]

The Tuna's track record:

NYG:

5 seasons before Parcells: 29-44 (.397)

With Parcells: 77-49-1 (.610)

3 seasons post Parcells: 25-23 (.521)

NEP:

5 seasons before Parcells: 23-57 (.288)

With Parcells: 32-32 (.500)

3 seasons post Parcells: 27-12 (.563)

NYJ:

5 seasons before Parcells: 22-58 (.275)

With Parcells: 29-19 (.604)

3 seasons post parcells: 28-20 (.583)

DAL:

5 seasons before Parcells: 33-47 (.413)

With Parcells: 34-30 (.531)

 

[Banger]

People have to stop with the "He never won anything without Belichick" crap.

The funny thing about people trying to discredit Parcells using that flawed logic is that they forget that Parcells was the one in charge giving Belichek jobs. Therefore, he deserves even more credit for recognizing and cultivating Belichek's talent. Parcells made Belichick, not the other way around. Bill Walsh gets credit for having his former coaches succeed, Parcells deserves just as much. If Belichick was so great, he would have turned around the Browns in his first coaching gig, but he failed....and who did he go running back to? Big Daddy Tuna.Parcells finished his career with only 5 losing seasons in 19 years. Belichick had five losing seasons by his 6th year.

 

[Yenrub]

People have to stop with the "He never won anything without Belichick" crap.

The funny thing about people trying to discredit Parcells using that flawed logic is that they forget that Parcells was the one in charge giving Belichek jobs. Therefore, he deserves even more credit for recognizing and cultivating Belichek's talent. Parcells made Belichick, not the other way around. Bill Walsh gets credit for having his former coaches succeed, Parcells deserves just as much. If Belichick was so great, he would have turned around the Browns in his first coaching gig, but he failed....and who did he go running back to? Big Daddy Tuna.Parcells finished his career with only 5 losing seasons in 19 years. Belichick had five losing seasons by his 6th year.

I agree the he “didn’t do it without so and so" can get really sillyIf the Patriots never win another Super Bowl will you say the Belichick (sp) isn’t worthy of the hall of fame because he never one without Crennell or Weis?

 

[TD Ryan]

From the late 80's thru the early 2000's, Bill Parcells was "THE COACH" of the NFL.

His coaching record is certainly enough to warrant HOF induction.

Then when you add in the fact that he was percieved as "The #1 guy" in the NFL for a decade +, he's got all the "extras" that you need beyond just stats.

Parcells is in and deservedly so.

 

[PMENFAN]

People have to stop with the "He never won anything without Belichick" crap.

The funny thing about people trying to discredit Parcells using that flawed logic is that they forget that Parcells was the one in charge giving Belichek jobs. Therefore, he deserves even more credit for recognizing and cultivating Belichek's talent. Parcells made Belichick, not the other way around. Bill Walsh gets credit for having his former coaches succeed, Parcells deserves just as much. If Belichick was so great, he would have turned around the Browns in his first coaching gig, but he failed....and who did he go running back to? Big Daddy Tuna.Parcells finished his career with only 5 losing seasons in 19 years. Belichick had five losing seasons by his 6th year.

I agree the he “didn’t do it without so and so" can get really sillyIf the Patriots never win another Super Bowl will you say the Belichick (sp) isn’t worthy of the hall of fame because he never one without Crennell or Weis?

Parcells has never won a playoff game without Belichick, and is 34-32 without Belichick. Belichick has managed to do fairly well, continuing to win his conference, losing his coordinators in the same year, and the DC the next year. And, still, he was 1-1 in the playoffs last year, and 2-1 this year. No, he's not jumping teams. Parcells did HELP turn around the Pats, but his arrival coincided with the arrival of Bob Kraft, who is commited to winning as well, and runs the organization to win. We see a continuation of success without him.He did do a nice job w/ the NYJets. But, it's not like they were the Pats, pre-Kraft either. IN Dallas, I thought they were loaded with talent when he got there, just devoid of any coaching talent. I felt he'd have them in contention for the playoffs year one, and he did. He was unable to improve on it, missing the playoffs. MIdseason they looked like one of the elite teams in the league, and by the end of the season they looked like one of the worse. They played the 'Hawks to an essential draw in Seattle, losing on the kick that was muffed. Looking at his body of work from a high level, it looks good, but when you peel back the layers, it doesn't look so good. People are comparing other coaches and great players. Yes coaches have to figure out how to use great players. I'm talking giving him credit for another coach that was consistently on his staff figuring out how to use the great players. I don't think he should get to the hall of fame for making that hire. I don't think that's what the hall of fame is for. Based on what I've seen in Dallas, without Belichick, I think he's a pretty average coach. They've got a lot of talent in Dallas, in a very weak division, in a very weak conference, and they've regressed. Is it fair to judge him that way? Probably not. But, it's the only way to judge just HIM, apart from Belichick, because it's the only time they've been apart. Clearly I'm in the small minority here, and that's fine. The record speaks for itself. He excels with Belichich as his DC. He's very average without. That's the only point I was making.

 

[x260bm]

I would be shocked if he does not get in. I think he is a lock as soon as people think he is retired for good.

 

[GregR_2]

In reading this article http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9947998?nfl012207 I got to thinking, and I don't think he does, and if he does, it's marginally.

My knocks on Parcells coincide with the author. He's never won a playoff game withou Bill Belichick. IN fack, he's barely above a .500 coach without BB. That's stunning. The hallmarks of the Giants, Pats and Jets were the Defenses, and they were all BB. Do we put him in for hiring Belichick? I don't think so.

The article goes on to talk about his lack of innovation. Never brought anything special to the game.

Is he a good coach? Yes. A very good coach? Absolutely? A great coach? I just can't guy that. He's "there" because of two SB wins. I think that's enough.

One other thing it mentions is that should he be in because of two Superbowl wins? Tom Flores has two Superbowl wins. Is he a HOF coach?

Exactly. This is why Bill Belichick will not deserve the HoF unless he can prove he can win a Super Bowl without Charlie Weis.Right?

 

[comfortably numb]

People have to stop with the "He never won anything without Belichick" crap.

The funny thing about people trying to discredit Parcells using that flawed logic is that they forget that Parcells was the one in charge giving Belichek jobs. Therefore, he deserves even more credit for recognizing and cultivating Belichek's talent. Parcells made Belichick, not the other way around. Bill Walsh gets credit for having his former coaches succeed, Parcells deserves just as much. If Belichick was so great, he would have turned around the Browns in his first coaching gig, but he failed....and who did he go running back to? Big Daddy Tuna.Parcells finished his career with only 5 losing seasons in 19 years. Belichick had five losing seasons by his 6th year.

I agree the he “didn’t do it without so and so" can get really sillyIf the Patriots never win another Super Bowl will you say the Belichick (sp) isn’t worthy of the hall of fame because he never one without Crennell or Weis?

Parcells has never won a playoff game without Belichick, and is 34-32 without Belichick. Belichick has managed to do fairly well, continuing to win his conference, losing his coordinators in the same year, and the DC the next year. And, still, he was 1-1 in the playoffs last year, and 2-1 this year. No, he's not jumping teams. Parcells did HELP turn around the Pats, but his arrival coincided with the arrival of Bob Kraft, who is commited to winning as well, and runs the organization to win. We see a continuation of success without him.He did do a nice job w/ the NYJets. But, it's not like they were the Pats, pre-Kraft either. IN Dallas, I thought they were loaded with talent when he got there, just devoid of any coaching talent. I felt he'd have them in contention for the playoffs year one, and he did. He was unable to improve on it, missing the playoffs. MIdseason they looked like one of the elite teams in the league, and by the end of the season they looked like one of the worse. They played the 'Hawks to an essential draw in Seattle, losing on the kick that was muffed. Looking at his body of work from a high level, it looks good, but when you peel back the layers, it doesn't look so good. People are comparing other coaches and great players. Yes coaches have to figure out how to use great players. I'm talking giving him credit for another coach that was consistently on his staff figuring out how to use the great players. I don't think he should get to the hall of fame for making that hire. I don't think that's what the hall of fame is for. Based on what I've seen in Dallas, without Belichick, I think he's a pretty average coach. They've got a lot of talent in Dallas, in a very weak division, in a very weak conference, and they've regressed. Is it fair to judge him that way? Probably not. But, it's the only way to judge just HIM, apart from Belichick, because it's the only time they've been apart. Clearly I'm in the small minority here, and that's fine. The record speaks for itself. He excels with Belichich as his DC. He's very average without. That's the only point I was making.

Who gets credit for getting the most out of his offesive players?Lets look at some of Parcells QB's that he has had success with.Phill SimmsJeff HostetlerDrew BledsoeNeil O' DonellRay LucasVinny TesteverdeQuincy CarterTony RomoRB'sJoe MorrisOtis AndersonRodney HamptonCurtis MartinDave MeggetMarion ButtsAdrian MurrellLeon JohnsonRichie AndersonTroy HambrickJulius JonesEddie GeorgeMarion barberWR'sLionel Manuel Steven BakerVincent BrisbyTerry GlennMark Bavarro TEBen Coates TEMichael TimpsonKeyshawn JohnsonWayne ChrebetAntonio BryantJoey GallowayTerrell OwensSome arguments can be made that coaches can simply ride the coat tails of their players to stardom.How many HOF'ers can you pick from this list?Looking at this list, (and I think some Giants homers will be ablt to come up with more players), Parcells, not only gets the most out of his players, but his players follow him. They want to play for him.That, to me speaks volumes about a coaches ability.

 

[cobalt_27]

100% lock. It's not even worth talking about.

Parcells is a stone cold, lead pipe lock, without question. Pats losing on Sunday must've rearranged some synapses to even raise this as a question for PMENFAN.

 

[Bri]

In reading this article http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9947998?nfl012207 I got to thinking, and I don't think he does, and if he does, it's marginally.

My knocks on Parcells coincide with the author. He's never won a playoff game withou Bill Belichick. IN fack, he's barely above a .500 coach without BB. That's stunning. The hallmarks of the Giants, Pats and Jets were the Defenses, and they were all BB. Do we put him in for hiring Belichick? I don't think so.

The article goes on to talk about his lack of innovation. Never brought anything special to the game.

Is he a good coach? Yes. A very good coach? Absolutely? A great coach? I just can't guy that. He's "there" because of two SB wins. I think that's enough.

One other thing it mentions is that should he be in because of two Superbowl wins? Tom Flores has two Superbowl wins. Is he a HOF coach?

2=# of wins, not # of Supe appearancesRe W-L record, most times a team gets a new coach they stink their initial year.

He made the playoffs with Quincy Carter as his QB. That alone should get him into the HOF.

He and Walsh's coaching tree make up much of the NFL coaches.

Innovation? Something different he did than others?

I think some of the better TEs today are used similarly to Bavaro.

In the 80s he used a throwback style offense to beat the "dynamic" offense of Bill Walsh. TOP was never more critical than when those Giants played.

I've seen alot of super talents at LB but none used anywhere near as well as LT. Tons of credit needs to go to LT but BP and BB certainly get some too.

There's really alot of different things, gotta run

 

[redman]

In reading this article http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9947998?nfl012207 I got to thinking, and I don't think he does, and if he does, it's marginally.

My knocks on Parcells coincide with the author. He's never won a playoff game withou Bill Belichick. IN fack, he's barely above a .500 coach without BB. That's stunning. The hallmarks of the Giants, Pats and Jets were the Defenses, and they were all BB. Do we put him in for hiring Belichick? I don't think so.

The article goes on to talk about his lack of innovation. Never brought anything special to the game.

Is he a good coach? Yes. A very good coach? Absolutely? A great coach? I just can't guy that. He's "there" because of two SB wins. I think that's enough.

One other thing it mentions is that should he be in because of two Superbowl wins? Tom Flores has two Superbowl wins. Is he a HOF coach?

Exactly. This is why Bill Belichick will not deserve the HoF unless he can prove he can win a Super Bowl without Charlie Weis.Right?

 

[Sinrman]

Absolutely he should, and will...

 

[Case Ace]

That article was weak.

He writes, "Parcells won two with Belichick. He won none without him. Belichick, on the other hand, won three without Parcells. Draw your own conclusions."

My conclusion is that Parcells was never BB's coordinator so this comparison isn't worth anything.

"Look, Parcells averaged 9.05 wins a year in his 19 seasons of coaching; Holmgren averaged 9.8 in 15 years."

Parcells took over for some teams that were in bad shape before he got there. Take away his 1st year w/those teams & re-run the numbers.

"Did he change the game? No. His teams were good, and he was successful, but that describes a lot of coaches."

Change the game? We are talking about weather he deserves to be in the HOF. I don't know weather or not he changed the game, but I know that it's not relevant. He coached the game better than almost anyone else, which, obviously, is far more important.

 

[mozzy84]

wonder if he is this stone cold lock if norwood makes that kick.

 

[comfortably numb]

wonder if he is this stone cold lock if norwood makes that kick.

Good thought.I think he still would be.If he would have lost, I think he would have got a passYou are 11-3 and lose your starting QB in December, people would have said he did a great job just to get there.They beat the Bears 11-5 & SF 14-2 to get to the Superbowl, then losing on a last second MADE FG by the best team in the AFC.That is not an easy task, with your starting QB.

 

[WhoDat]

Ok...

Three of the members of the Hall of Fame selection committee I spoke to Monday weren't all that sure about Parcells, either. They said they'd have to study his record more extensively before coming to a conclusion, and that's fair.

What three members, as Parcells has been prickly at best with numerous people over his coaching tenure?

What isn't fair is to say he belongs in the Hall because he won two Super Bowls. Because he doesn't. Hey, Tom Flores won two Super Bowls. So did George Seifert. Jimmy Johnson did, too. I don't recall seeing those guys in Canton.

Flores stepped into coach a Raiders team that had won 112 games over the previous 10 years with Madden. 9 of those seasons had 14 game schedules. That team was LOADED upon Flores arrival.

Seifert took over a program built by Walsh and taken care of by guys named Montana, Young and Rice.

Now, Jimmy Johnson took over a team that was 3-13 and managed to win 11 games 3 seasons later and his first Superbowl 4 years later. Parcells took over a team that had gone 4-12 in 80; 9-7 in 81 and 4-5 in 82. They went 3-12-1 in 83 and managed double digit wins in 85 (10) and won the Superbowl in 86 (14-2).

There is no need to put Flores and Seifert into the same coaching tier as Johnson or Parcells. The two teams inherited by Johnson and Parcells were a universe away from what Flores and Seifert walked into. Johnson was an innovator. His advanced scouting techniques are what built Miami and helped turn around the Cowboys. Oh, he could coach too.

OK, so he took four different teams to the playoffs. No coach in NFL history has done that. He turned around a New York Giants franchise that had one winning season the previous decade. He had the New England Patriots in the playoffs two seasons after they were 2-14. He turned a 1-15 New York Jets team into a 12-4 Super Bowl contender within two seasons. And he had Dallas in the playoffs after the Cowboys turned in three consecutive 5-11 finishes.

And then there are those stints with the Pats, Jets and Pokes. Each of those were massive turn arounds and, while not being someone that invented or re-invented the wheel, Parcells is one of the best coaches/motivators in the history of the league. If turning around a team with 3 or 5 wins was so easy, then the league would have a far lower turn over rate at the HC position. However, that is not the case.

Parcells is a lock for the HOF.

 

[Pat Patriot]

wonder if he is this stone cold lock if norwood makes that kick.

3 Super Bowls winning 1 instead of 2 and success everywhere he coached, yep, I still think he gets in if Norwood makes it.