Parenting advice (1 Viewer)

[stbugs]

So what would have happened had the response been a good natured, "Doing fine, ######!"?

I'm just trying to understand the rules here. It was okay for the black kid to use it talking to the white kid, but would ANY rejoinder using the word be verboten?

Geez, white privilege is really shining through in this thread. I’ll see my way out since we are now at the why can’t white people say N-word because black people say it.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Geez, white privilege is really shining through in this thread. I’ll see my way out since we are now at the why can’t white people say N-word because black people say it.

Okay, I'll take that as a yes.

And I'd agree with it. Except, I think technically that would be black privilege.

 

[Caveman33]

But it's not that simple because of the word being used.  The N-word is nowhere near "friend".  It's not a simple substitution for word play.

It is used as a substitute for friend.  This is with an "a" ending rather than "er."  It's been like this for decades so I'm not sure why it's taking anyone by surprise.  Many white people use it among their black friends without issue.  Personally, I would just respond with a what's up and handshake.  Being called N word has never phased me but it's also not part of my vocabulary.

We don't know the history between these kids and we are receiving the story third hand.  I'm guessing these kids weren't friends and OP's son was being set-up in that the others were expecting to get a reaction out of him.  He gave them a reaction.    

 

[Van Dyman]

If it's 7th graders, I'm kind of skeptical of the "my feelings are hurt because you think you're too good to be called the N-word" angle.  I'd guess this was pretty much a kid trying to take advantage of a "we can say it and you can't" situation.  

Sounds right. I get what @stbugs is saying and, certainly, with certain verbal inflections the exact same words could mean something else. E.g. "don't call ME n-word!" And we're hearing a 3rd hand account from one kid's dad. We can only make assumptions. Based on limited information it sounded to me more like what you are saying than what stbugs is proposing.

Either way it it is being blown out of proportion and reached a point where, imo, some discussion with the teacher/school seems appropriate.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

We don't know the history between these kids and we are receiving the story third hand.  I'm guessing these kids weren't friends and OP's son was being set-up in that the others were expecting to get a reaction out of him.  He gave them a reaction.    

If that's the case since the other kid caused offense, whether or not he intended to, isn't it HIM that owes the apology?

If it really started out innocent, shouldn't he have responded with something like, "Golly, I'm sorry about that. I only meant it as a term of endearment. But since it clearly wasn't received that way, allow me to profusely apologize."?

 

[Gally]

Geez, white privilege is really shining through in this thread. I’ll see my way out since we are now at the why can’t white people say N-word because black people say it.

I don't think that is the issue........at least not my issue here.   I am also not sure where white privilege has anything to do with the conversation.  

Again, this really comes down to understanding context and intent more than anything.  There was definitely a better way the intent could have been communicated.  

 

[Caveman33]

If that's the case since the other kid caused offense, whether or not he intended to, isn't it HIM that owes the apology?

If it really started out innocent, shouldn't he have responded with something like, "Golly, I'm sorry about that. I only meant it as a term of endearment. But since it clearly wasn't received that way, allow me to profusely apologize."?

I don't really see this as a who should apologize situation.  If I was OP, I'd be more concerned with why my son is being targeted for this sort of harassment.  The kid's response was very stiff and weird, imo.  It sounds like he needs to loosen up and roll with things better.   

 

[Wildcat]

I don't really see this as a who should apologize situation.  If I was OP, I'd be more concerned with why my son is being targeted for this sort of harassment.  The kid's response was very stiff and weird, imo.  It sounds like he needs to loosen up and roll with things better.   

"Loosen up and roll with things better", in a society where this is difficult  to navigate for adults, much less children.  Sure.  Which kid are you referring to?

 

[Caveman33]

"Loosen up and roll with things better", in a society where this is difficult  to navigate for adults, much less children.  Sure.  Which kid are you referring to?

OP can only advise his son.  We can't control how others behave but we can always try to improve in how we react.

 

[Lehigh98]

So a kid at my kids school said "what's up, n*****".  He is black and my son is white.  My son responded with "don't call me a n*****".  The other kid got mad and is now telling everyone my son is racist and everyone at school is pointing him out as the racist kid.

I'm at odds on what to do.

Sorry to be the one to ask.  I'm assuming this is your son's side, are you sure it's accurate?

 

[Juxtatarot]

Kids aren’t greeting other kids consistently. They greet their friends and sometimes they may greet kids that they are going to mess with. Based on how this played out, I’m guessing it was the latter.

 

[El Floppo]

So now the black kid was setting up the son?

Oh..ok. 

 

[Sinn Fein]

I don't think we have the entire story here.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

So now the black kid was setting up the son?

Oh..ok. 

Guessing on who I'm getting "likes" from, I should have been more clear.

My sense is that the objection is to a white person using the word.  I don't have proof for that, but it seems more plausible to me than idea that objection comes from anger that the kid didn't want to be called the n-word.  

As context, I think the "double standard" regarding the use of this word is reasonable and entirely appropriate because :gestures at the entirety of American history:  And while I admit that there are instances when a white person could use the word innocently and without any real intent to cause offense, I think it makes sense to just avoid the word.  Because again :continues gesturing:

So I don't know if the one kid was setting him up.  Maybe he really found nothing offensive in calling a white classmate that but felt that a white classmate should not use the word in any sense reciprocally.  They're 7th graders.  I'm not sure how much scrutiny their thoughts would stand up to.  But I'm also enough of a misanthrope to believe that some kids, and indeed some adults, could possibly try to pull something like that off if there was some existing enmity (maybe the one classmate already thought the OP's kid was racist for some other reason or whatever). 

 

[gianmarco]

Kids aren’t greeting other kids consistently. They greet their friends and sometimes they may greet kids that they are going to mess with. Based on how this played out, I’m guessing it was the latter.

Yep.

So, either the OP doesn't have the whole story or this is likely a good read on the situation.  If he was the OP's son's friend, he's not going to go around and tell the school his friend is racist just because of this one instance.  So, either son isn't telling the whole story or this other kid isn't a "friend" and was looking to instigate something.  If the latter, I can see why the OP's son responded the way he did. 

Either way, this has the potential to escalate significantly and, at a minimum, I'd reach out to someone at the school to gauge if something more needs to be addressed.  Even something like "I don't know all the details but something seemed to happen between my son and X.  Is there any history of issues or something I need to pursue further?".

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

If you said Hey friend! and the response was Don’t call me friend, would you consider that a negative response? Add in the N word and you get what you got. It’s really that simple.

The N word has bad connotations when said by a white person, been that way for a long, long time. Would you ever walk up to a black guy and say what’s up my N word? I don’t care how friendly you appear and if your second sentence was just so you know I mean it in the best way possible because I love rap too, it’s still going to be taken as a negative response. 

But it's not that simple because of the word being used.  The N-word is nowhere near "friend".  It's not a simple substitution for word play.

Then let's find an equivalent.  I'm a white kid from the South SIde of Chicago.  Someone calls me "b****", and I respond with, "Don't call me b****."  How am I in the wrong?  Just not happening.  Substitute "Polack", if you prefer.  Or "****".  The second child does not owe an apolgoy for that.  At all.  As an adult, he might have made a more nuanced response, but expecting that from a kid is just idiotic.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

So a kid at my kids school said "what's up, n*****".  He is black and my son is white.  My son responded with "don't call me a n*****". 

There is no universe in which your kid did anything wrong.  I have no idea why some people are making up another conversation part that didn't happen, but there you go.  If anything, the first kid needs to learn when using that word might or might not be appropriate.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

They're 7th graders.

Also this.

 

[Orange&Blue]

Update:  yesterday my son tried to apologize to the kid for using the word, clarifying how he didn't call him the actual word.  The other kid starting yelling "n*****" as loud as he could.  My son walked away and the kid's friends started mocking my son.  Apparently another kid video recorded and would become evidence later.

When he got home he told us what had happened.  We talked to our neighbor, who is the school counselor.  Apparently this isn't the first incident with the kid.  He said he would take care of it but wanted to talk to my son about why he shouldn't ever say the word in any context.  I said sure and got my son and listened to him as he,  a black man, explained why it was so offensive to him, even in that context, and how it simply shouldn't be used at all.

My son went to school today and the principal called them both in to the office.  He put both parents on the phone and asked us to remain silent.  He asked for each kid to explain what happened and the other kid agreed to my son's side of the story after the principal played the video of him yelling at my son.  He again lectured/educated my son to not use the word and then lectured the other kid for bullying and lying.  They both apologized and went their separate ways with the other parents chiming in "please don't suspend our son again, we will take care of this."  He dismissed my son to class and stated he would call us back.  Later he called and said our son wasn't in trouble and wouldn't comment on the other kid's punishment.  Just reiterated that the other kid wouldn't be bothering my son again and if anyone else says anything they would be disciplined as well.  Couple of kids during the day said things to my son.  Two of them were caught and were sent to the principals office as well for further discussion which apparently included parents.

We talked to the counselor/neighbor this evening and this isn't the first incident with the word and they were going to be having each class "educated" during first hour later this week.

Hopefully this blows over soon.

 

[Orange&Blue]

It is used as a substitute for friend.  This is with an "a" ending rather than "er."  It's been like this for decades so I'm not sure why it's taking anyone by surprise.  Many white people use it among their black friends without issue.  Personally, I would just respond with a what's up and handshake.  Being called N word has never phased me but it's also not part of my vocabulary.

We don't know the history between these kids and we are receiving the story third hand.  I'm guessing these kids weren't friends and OP's son was being set-up in that the others were expecting to get a reaction out of him.  He gave them a reaction.    

The kid used the hard "r" not the "a" version.

 

[Orange&Blue]

So now the black kid was setting up the son?

Oh..ok. 

I don't think it was that.  I found out tonight from their basketball coach that my son blocked the other kid's shot and shouted "get outta here" or something.  The other kid calls lots of people the "n" word, but he uses the the soft "a"  version instead of the hard "r" like he did with my son.

I think he was mad at my son, used it as an insult, and my son reacted.  I've tried talking to my son about his short fuse before and told him that short fuse was illustrated here as nothing would have happened if he had simply ignored him.

 

[Foosball God]

Update:  yesterday my son tried to apologize to the kid for using the word, clarifying how he didn't call him the actual word.  The other kid starting yelling "n*****" as loud as he could.  My son walked away and the kid's friends started mocking my son.  Apparently another kid video recorded and would become evidence later.

When he got home he told us what had happened.  We talked to our neighbor, who is the school counselor.  Apparently this isn't the first incident with the kid.  He said he would take care of it but wanted to talk to my son about why he shouldn't ever say the word in any context.  I said sure and got my son and listened to him as he,  a black man, explained why it was so offensive to him, even in that context, and how it simply shouldn't be used at all.

My son went to school today and the principal called them both in to the office.  He put both parents on the phone and asked us to remain silent.  He asked for each kid to explain what happened and the other kid agreed to my son's side of the story after the principal played the video of him yelling at my son.  He again lectured/educated my son to not use the word and then lectured the other kid for bullying and lying.  They both apologized and went their separate ways with the other parents chiming in "please don't suspend our son again, we will take care of this."  He dismissed my son to class and stated he would call us back.  Later he called and said our son wasn't in trouble and wouldn't comment on the other kid's punishment.  Just reiterated that the other kid wouldn't be bothering my son again and if anyone else says anything they would be disciplined as well.  Couple of kids during the day said things to my son.  Two of them were caught and were sent to the principals office as well for further discussion which apparently included parents.

We talked to the counselor/neighbor this evening and this isn't the first incident with the word and they were going to be having each class "educated" during first hour later this week.

Hopefully this blows over soon.

I hope so too.  It sucks that your son was put into that situation.

 

[gianmarco]

Yep.

So, either the OP doesn't have the whole story or this is likely a good read on the situation.  If he was the OP's son's friend, he's not going to go around and tell the school his friend is racist just because of this one instance.  So, either son isn't telling the whole story or this other kid isn't a "friend" and was looking to instigate something.  If the latter, I can see why the OP's son responded the way he did. 

Either way, this has the potential to escalate significantly and, at a minimum, I'd reach out to someone at the school to gauge if something more needs to be addressed.  Even something like "I don't know all the details but something seemed to happen between my son and X.  Is there any history of issues or something I need to pursue further?".

Update:  yesterday my son tried to apologize to the kid for using the word, clarifying how he didn't call him the actual word.  The other kid starting yelling "n*****" as loud as he could.  My son walked away and the kid's friends started mocking my son.  Apparently another kid video recorded and would become evidence later.

When he got home he told us what had happened.  We talked to our neighbor, who is the school counselor.  Apparently this isn't the first incident with the kid.  He said he would take care of it but wanted to talk to my son about why he shouldn't ever say the word in any context.  I said sure and got my son and listened to him as he,  a black man, explained why it was so offensive to him, even in that context, and how it simply shouldn't be used at all.

My son went to school today and the principal called them both in to the office.  He put both parents on the phone and asked us to remain silent.  He asked for each kid to explain what happened and the other kid agreed to my son's side of the story after the principal played the video of him yelling at my son.  He again lectured/educated my son to not use the word and then lectured the other kid for bullying and lying.  They both apologized and went their separate ways with the other parents chiming in "please don't suspend our son again, we will take care of this."  He dismissed my son to class and stated he would call us back.  Later he called and said our son wasn't in trouble and wouldn't comment on the other kid's punishment.  Just reiterated that the other kid wouldn't be bothering my son again and if anyone else says anything they would be disciplined as well.  Couple of kids during the day said things to my son.  Two of them were caught and were sent to the principals office as well for further discussion which apparently included parents.

We talked to the counselor/neighbor this evening and this isn't the first incident with the word and they were going to be having each class "educated" during first hour later this week.

Hopefully this blows over soon.

Nothing about that update is surprising at all. Sorry your son had to go through that and hopefully the school helps get this under control. Sounds like they are, especially getting the other kids afterwards. This was going well beyond what your son could control on his own. Best of luck to him and you.

 

[El Floppo]

Update:  yesterday my son tried to apologize to the kid for using the word, clarifying how he didn't call him the actual word.  The other kid starting yelling "n*****" as loud as he could.  My son walked away and the kid's friends started mocking my son.  Apparently another kid video recorded and would become evidence later.

When he got home he told us what had happened.  We talked to our neighbor, who is the school counselor.  Apparently this isn't the first incident with the kid.  He said he would take care of it but wanted to talk to my son about why he shouldn't ever say the word in any context.  I said sure and got my son and listened to him as he,  a black man, explained why it was so offensive to him, even in that context, and how it simply shouldn't be used at all.

My son went to school today and the principal called them both in to the office.  He put both parents on the phone and asked us to remain silent.  He asked for each kid to explain what happened and the other kid agreed to my son's side of the story after the principal played the video of him yelling at my son.  He again lectured/educated my son to not use the word and then lectured the other kid for bullying and lying.  They both apologized and went their separate ways with the other parents chiming in "please don't suspend our son again, we will take care of this."  He dismissed my son to class and stated he would call us back.  Later he called and said our son wasn't in trouble and wouldn't comment on the other kid's punishment.  Just reiterated that the other kid wouldn't be bothering my son again and if anyone else says anything they would be disciplined as well.  Couple of kids during the day said things to my son.  Two of them were caught and were sent to the principals office as well for further discussion which apparently included parents.

We talked to the counselor/neighbor this evening and this isn't the first incident with the word and they were going to be having each class "educated" during first hour later this week.

Hopefully this blows over soon.

thanks for the explanation... makes sense. 

hope your son is doing ok and that this thing can get put behind everybody and your son's name can get publicly cleared- what a thing for a 7th grader to go through.

if your neighbor hadn't been the school counselor (fortunate!), how would you have handled this?

 

[jobarules]

So now the black kid was setting up the son?

Oh..ok. 

This was the way I first read it as well.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I think I like that principal.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

LOL at the OP's son Mutombo-ing the kid in gym class.  That's like every geeky, unathletic kid's nightmare.  

 

[greenmountaingoat]

Wow. Incredible and kind of a bummer of a story. Flashbacks of how scary some social situations are in those grades.  Amazing job by the principal, counselor and you. 

 

[Orange&Blue]

thanks for the explanation... makes sense. 

hope your son is doing ok and that this thing can get put behind everybody and your son's name can get publicly cleared- what a thing for a 7th grader to go through.

if your neighbor hadn't been the school counselor (fortunate!), how would you have handled this?

Gone to the principal.

 

[Orange&Blue]

LOL at the OP's son Mutombo-ing the kid in gym class.  That's like every geeky, unathletic kid's nightmare.  

Lol...my son just turned 13 and is 5'9" so he is tall and skinny as hell (115 lbs).  He is a geek and I'm a nuggets fan.  I may be the source of this problem. 

 

[Orange&Blue]

Thanks to all for the help!

 

[Sea Duck]

The N-word and race are both a distraction here. And what I mean by that is that this would be a clear case of bullying regardless of what word was said or who said it.

1. Kid #1 says something that upsets Kid #2.

2. Kid #2 asks him to stop.

3. Not only does Kid #1 not stop, but he continues to harass Kid #2 with unwanted behavior.

Anyway, I think you and the counselor and the principal all handled it very well.