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Pat' off season and next year (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter PMENFAN
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NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
IMHO, looking ahead (next few years), it is LB, SS, DB & RB help they are most in need of and if Seymour insists on breaking the bank abother DL would not surprise me either. Gotta run right now but will elaborate l8r.
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The Patriots haven’t held discussions on a new contract for receiver David Givens this offseason, according to Givens’ agent, Brad Blank
http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/
Grrr cmon, work out a deal!
http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/
Grrr cmon, work out a deal!
SoloMatisse
Footballguy
Dont get me wrong, and no disprespect to Fitzgerald and Boldin. Ive got Fitzgerald in a dynasty league and wouldnt trade him for anything right now. BUT, helping a team go 14-2 in back to back seasons, the playoffs in 3 straight seasons, win 2 rings, earn a SB MVP(Branch), have back to back 100yd plus SBs(Branch), and catch a TD in 7 straight playoff games(Givens) doesnt really compare to putting up some nice fantasy #s in primarily garbage time. Fantasy #s...give me Boldin and Fitz. Playoff football and winning rings...its hard to argue with the 'other' two. jmho and thats kindof a no-brainer.Oh yeah, I'd rather have Branch and Givens than Fitzgerald and Boldin.
Boston
Footballguy
I would be totally shocked if Givens doesn't hit the market. The Pats have had two years to sign Givens and have not done so. They also offered Mason big money during that time. Also, with Branch only having a year left on his deal whatever you give Givens will be topped by Branch which the Pats are well aware of.Right now Givens would be foolish not to at least test the market. It's only about 10 days away. The kid was a seventh round pick and this is his biggest opportunity to land a deal that can take care of him and his family. I'm sure he'd love to stay with the Pats but if another team is offering a much bigger package he has to take it. This is not a 32 year old veteran who has already had a few big deals and doesn't need to score another large contract. The NFL is very unforgiving and this could be his only chance to make the big cash.
Right now I'd say there's about a 30% chance of Givens being back in New England next year. I really hope I'm wrong here because I like the guy but reality is reality and David Givens is not the guy the Pats should open the bank for. He's very good but other players are more valuable and in a salary cap league you have to watch every dollar.
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ratbast
Footballguy
I like givens but like you really wish they could sign a guy that would allow Branch to be the great #2 he could be.DB, LB, WR, B/u QB and a solid vet RB, AGreen too much but i hope they get a vet like ASmith of yesteryear. I see RBBC no matter what. Shipp or Willie Green homecoming?
nerangers
Footballguy
Patriots Draft Pick Information (from Boston.com)
A look at the picks:
Round 1 -- 21st, assigned selection
Round 2 -- 20th, assigned selection
Round 3 -- 11th, from Baltimore*
Round 3 -- 22nd, assigned selection
Round 4 -- 9th, from Detroit**
Round 4 -- 21st, assigned selection
Round 5 -- 3rd, from Oakland***
Round 5 -- 20th, traded to Browns for WR Andre' Davis
Round 6 -- 22nd, assigned selection
Round 7 -- 21st, assigned selection
* The Patriots' first 2006 third-round pick (the 11th selection of the round) was acquired from the Baltimore Ravens on April 23, 2005 along with a 2005 third-round pick (84 overall -- CB Ellis Hobbs) and a 2005 sixth-round pick (195 overall -- Traded to Green Bay) in exchange for a 2005 second-round pick (64 overall -- T Adam Terry).
** The Patriots' first 2006 fourth-round pick (the ninth selection of the round) was acquired from the Detroit Lions on April 24, 2005 in exchange for a 2005 fifth-round pick (145 overall -- QB Dan Orlovsky) and a 2005 sixth-round pick (206 overall -- DE Jonathan Goddard).
*** The Patriots' first 2006 fifth-round pick (3rd in the round) was acquired from the Oakland Raiders on April 24, 2005 along with a 2005 seventh-round pick (230 overall -- QB Matt Cassel) in exchange for a 2005 sixth-round pick (175 overall -- DT Anttaj Hawthorne).
There is also the possibility the Patriots could receive additional compensatory choices, which have yet to be determined.
A look at the picks:
Round 1 -- 21st, assigned selection
Round 2 -- 20th, assigned selection
Round 3 -- 11th, from Baltimore*
Round 3 -- 22nd, assigned selection
Round 4 -- 9th, from Detroit**
Round 4 -- 21st, assigned selection
Round 5 -- 3rd, from Oakland***
Round 5 -- 20th, traded to Browns for WR Andre' Davis
Round 6 -- 22nd, assigned selection
Round 7 -- 21st, assigned selection
* The Patriots' first 2006 third-round pick (the 11th selection of the round) was acquired from the Baltimore Ravens on April 23, 2005 along with a 2005 third-round pick (84 overall -- CB Ellis Hobbs) and a 2005 sixth-round pick (195 overall -- Traded to Green Bay) in exchange for a 2005 second-round pick (64 overall -- T Adam Terry).
** The Patriots' first 2006 fourth-round pick (the ninth selection of the round) was acquired from the Detroit Lions on April 24, 2005 in exchange for a 2005 fifth-round pick (145 overall -- QB Dan Orlovsky) and a 2005 sixth-round pick (206 overall -- DE Jonathan Goddard).
*** The Patriots' first 2006 fifth-round pick (3rd in the round) was acquired from the Oakland Raiders on April 24, 2005 along with a 2005 seventh-round pick (230 overall -- QB Matt Cassel) in exchange for a 2005 sixth-round pick (175 overall -- DT Anttaj Hawthorne).
There is also the possibility the Patriots could receive additional compensatory choices, which have yet to be determined.
nerangers
Footballguy
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nerangers
Footballguy
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little tidbit I thought worth sharing:
LB Tedy Bruschi's name came up at the 2006 Scouting Combine, more than a decade after he participated in the annual even in Indy. San Francisco Head Coach Mike Nolan referenced Bruschi's now legendary resiliency and work ethic in an answer to a question about wanting to see players do a full workout at the Combine.
"I like to see them work out because it tells me a lot about their competitive spirit. Great example is Tedy Bruschi," Nolan said. "When he came here, he was too short, too slow, too a lot of things.
But I remember — I was coaching linebackers when he came here — I followed his group around and every drill he did, he was berserko about being first. He wanted to do every drill. You only do the vertical jump twice, and I think he wanted to do it four times so he could beat the guy who was already No. 1. That told me a lot about him. That told me this guy is going to be a player. What position? I don't know, but he's going to be a player because of that competitive spirit. You can gain things like that from players like that."
LB Tedy Bruschi's name came up at the 2006 Scouting Combine, more than a decade after he participated in the annual even in Indy. San Francisco Head Coach Mike Nolan referenced Bruschi's now legendary resiliency and work ethic in an answer to a question about wanting to see players do a full workout at the Combine.
"I like to see them work out because it tells me a lot about their competitive spirit. Great example is Tedy Bruschi," Nolan said. "When he came here, he was too short, too slow, too a lot of things.
But I remember — I was coaching linebackers when he came here — I followed his group around and every drill he did, he was berserko about being first. He wanted to do every drill. You only do the vertical jump twice, and I think he wanted to do it four times so he could beat the guy who was already No. 1. That told me a lot about him. That told me this guy is going to be a player. What position? I don't know, but he's going to be a player because of that competitive spirit. You can gain things like that from players like that."
The guy's got three rings and at least two kicks that may be considered historic. If he wants to see what he can get on the open market, so be it. I hope he's always a Patriot but I understand his motivation. (Of course that's easy to say when I'm a fan of a three-time Superbowl Champ.)BTW - same goes for Willie.
Walter34
Footballguy
The Pats have taken a step back since the back to back SBs. So did their division, so they should have no trouble winning the east again with 10-11 wins.
WR is a need and we also saw Dillon show some age last year looking slow and hobbled.
Losing Vini hurts as that has always been an advantage for NE against whomever they were playing.
The secondary also needs some upgrades.
A good team, but no longer a great team. They need some impact players and more production out of the guys around Brady to get back to the SB level team they were.
Ben Watson made one of the greatest plays I have ever seen when he tackled Champ Bailey. If that talent can transform into production, he could turn into a great FF TE to draft.
RB, CB, WR in that order as the primary needs.
WR is a need and we also saw Dillon show some age last year looking slow and hobbled.
Losing Vini hurts as that has always been an advantage for NE against whomever they were playing.
The secondary also needs some upgrades.
A good team, but no longer a great team. They need some impact players and more production out of the guys around Brady to get back to the SB level team they were.
Ben Watson made one of the greatest plays I have ever seen when he tackled Champ Bailey. If that talent can transform into production, he could turn into a great FF TE to draft.
RB, CB, WR in that order as the primary needs.
Boston
Footballguy
Good to see you...There's a heavy migration of FFtodayers here. Whether I agree or disagree (usually involving Brady) with him Walter is always a good one to hear from because he thinks things thru and knows his stuff. I'm happy to see him again.
As far as the Pats running game goes I don't care how they do it as long as it improves. Whether it's with a big name free agent, a cost friendly free agent, a high pick or a low pick (I could see any of these options being used) it needs to be upgraded over last year's unit. Hopefully Dillon can rebound but that's not a given and you definetly need another quality pair of legs around just in case he has hit the wall. Pass and Faulk are quality players but they're not enough and better suited for specific roles.
One area that should be improved is the line. Last year's injury situation was not good for continuity. Light and Koppen being healthy is huge since they are their two best lineman. Also, a benefit of all the injuries last year is that Mankins and Kaczur (as well as Gorin and Hochstein) got plenty of experience and played solidly. They need some depth here as they will probably lose Neal and Ashworth but overall they should be a high quality unit.
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ratbast
Footballguy
Ill drink to that. And to Footballguys for having us. The state of the game could help the Pats. They could be structured to handle contract diversity over the next few years. Seymor may take a short contract to stick around until the market stabilizes. He must be signed.
This division is getting better fast.
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
The Division is getting better or the Dolphins are getting better? I dont see Buffalo doing much to get better and the Jets are a mess. The Division is still down and the Pats have to be expected to put up a 5-1 division record at worst this year.
Walter34
Footballguy
Brother B - good to see you. We have had healthy debates over the years for sure. I wasn't ready to induct Tom Terrific after 2001 like you were but have agreed to his growth and improvement over the years to the point where he is in the top two qbs. He has gotten better with each year and this past one may have been his best despite the playoff loss. My stance has always been that it isnt just about wins because that is a team accomplishment. That wont change.
Cheers bro.
nerangers
Footballguy
Patriots prepare to stock up for '06 (from Boston.com)
Snipits from Article:
QB:
Their best bet probably would be to persuade Doug Flutie not to retire, so they could return the same threesome of quarterbacks they had in 2005, with Matt Cassel moving into his second year of apprenticeship.
RB:
Because of Dillon's $5 million price tag, there is no room in the Patriots' cart for stars like Shaun Alexander or Edgerrin James. There are a number of backs in the draft with first-round grades.
WR:
The Patriots know that Givens's final price tag will be the starting point for the impending Branch negotiations. About the only way to keep Givens is if he accepts a substantial hometown discount. (But this isn't his hometown.)
Defensive Line:
One of the youngest, and best defensive lines in the game will be intact one more season. Inking Richard Seymour to a long-term deal would be a good thing, though you can expect him to be franchised next year if nothing is worked out
LB:
The team wants McGinest back, and he wants to return, but the numbers might not match the desire. His loss would be felt as much in the locker room as on the field, but on the field, he would be tough to replace without moving Vrabel back outside. Certainly the Patriots will draft a linebacker, and Ohio State's Bobby Carpenter is a perfect-fit first-rounder. Plenty of veterans are available, though the Patriots got mixed results with free agent pickups last year (Beisel and Chad Brown).
Special Teams:
The Patriots have everything they need on the roster today. Unfortunately for them, Adam Vinatieri becomes a free agent tomorrow. You can't play a game without a kicker, and why would the Patriots want to enter the season without the league's top clutch kicker? They may not have a choice, because when the CBA mess is sorted out, teams will make a run at Vinatieri, and he'll listen.
BEST QUOTE OF THE ARTICLE:
Oh, Belichick said if Reggie Bush slips to No. 21, the Patriots would probably take him.
PROBABLY???? Priceless!
Snipits from Article:
QB:
Their best bet probably would be to persuade Doug Flutie not to retire, so they could return the same threesome of quarterbacks they had in 2005, with Matt Cassel moving into his second year of apprenticeship.
RB:
Because of Dillon's $5 million price tag, there is no room in the Patriots' cart for stars like Shaun Alexander or Edgerrin James. There are a number of backs in the draft with first-round grades.
WR:
The Patriots know that Givens's final price tag will be the starting point for the impending Branch negotiations. About the only way to keep Givens is if he accepts a substantial hometown discount. (But this isn't his hometown.)
Defensive Line:
One of the youngest, and best defensive lines in the game will be intact one more season. Inking Richard Seymour to a long-term deal would be a good thing, though you can expect him to be franchised next year if nothing is worked out
LB:
The team wants McGinest back, and he wants to return, but the numbers might not match the desire. His loss would be felt as much in the locker room as on the field, but on the field, he would be tough to replace without moving Vrabel back outside. Certainly the Patriots will draft a linebacker, and Ohio State's Bobby Carpenter is a perfect-fit first-rounder. Plenty of veterans are available, though the Patriots got mixed results with free agent pickups last year (Beisel and Chad Brown).
Special Teams:
The Patriots have everything they need on the roster today. Unfortunately for them, Adam Vinatieri becomes a free agent tomorrow. You can't play a game without a kicker, and why would the Patriots want to enter the season without the league's top clutch kicker? They may not have a choice, because when the CBA mess is sorted out, teams will make a run at Vinatieri, and he'll listen.
BEST QUOTE OF THE ARTICLE:
Oh, Belichick said if Reggie Bush slips to No. 21, the Patriots would probably take him.
PROBABLY???? Priceless!
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David Yudkin
Footballguy
Coach B has put the word out that if RB Reggie Bush is available when the Pats are on the clock with the 21st overall pick, he's there man. And people say Bill has no sense of humor.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Technically, they can't release him, as he is no longer under contract.
Boston
Footballguy
Rocket...you can do it...remember, BB doesn't like players who think they're bigger than the team.The migration continues, glad to see Boston, Walter and some of the other mange board regulars surface here. If I mind my manners I might even be able to stick around here for a while
As long as I don't encounter MDC, Torrid Joe or Scooter I have a shot. In all seriousness I've been lurking around here for a while and figured I'd finally chime in ( the Absolute and tonics might be a factor in that too ) As far as the Pats I was always cautiously optimistic going into the 3 SB seasons and they surprised me. I guess the 30+ years of prior frustration did that to me.
Going into 06 I really think they can go all the way barring injuries if they have a strong draft and a couple free agency aquisitions. I hope they finally pull out all the stops and move up to grab some higher picks this year as opposed to worrying about the future. I think they are only a couple of pieces away from possibly winning another title and I'd mortgage the future for one more championship run. Who knows how much longer that window will be open.
I was impressed with how much the Denver loss hurt BB and the players. They thought they were the better team and looked stunned after the loss. I really think they thought they cheated themselves out of another title. Whether or not they could have gotten by Pittsburgh or Seattle we'll never know. I think they have a chip on their shoulder going into 06. I say load up and take one more shot. Probably won't happen given BB's track record but this special core group of guys can't last forever and after that who knows what will happen?
) As far as the Pats I was always cautiously optimistic going into the 3 SB seasons and they surprised me. I guess the 30+ years of prior frustration did that to me.Going into 06 I really think they can go all the way barring injuries if they have a strong draft and a couple free agency aquisitions. I hope they finally pull out all the stops and move up to grab some higher picks this year as opposed to worrying about the future. I think they are only a couple of pieces away from possibly winning another title and I'd mortgage the future for one more championship run. Who knows how much longer that window will be open.
I was impressed with how much the Denver loss hurt BB and the players. They thought they were the better team and looked stunned after the loss. I really think they thought they cheated themselves out of another title. Whether or not they could have gotten by Pittsburgh or Seattle we'll never know. I think they have a chip on their shoulder going into 06. I say load up and take one more shot. Probably won't happen given BB's track record but this special core group of guys can't last forever and after that who knows what will happen?
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Boston
Footballguy
For what it's worth...
Which young Patriots teammate can we expect to hear from in the future?
Ryan Claridge, the rookie linebacker.
This is from a Q&A with Chad Brown over at Patriots.com. I found that pretty interesting and it definetly caught me by surprise. Due to his injury he's still an unknown but I found that an encouraging little snippet. Hopefully he can contribute because the Pats definetly need some depth at LB.
Which young Patriots teammate can we expect to hear from in the future?
Ryan Claridge, the rookie linebacker.
This is from a Q&A with Chad Brown over at Patriots.com. I found that pretty interesting and it definetly caught me by surprise. Due to his injury he's still an unknown but I found that an encouraging little snippet. Hopefully he can contribute because the Pats definetly need some depth at LB.
nerangers
Footballguy
Patriots | Poole to be released?
Mon, 6 Mar 2006 12:47:43 -0800
John Tomase, of the Boston Herald, reports the New England Patriots could release CB Tyrone Poole.
Patriots | Brown to be released?
Mon, 6 Mar 2006 12:46:59 -0800
John Tomase, of the Boston Herald, reports the New England Patriots could release LB Chad Brown.
Possibilities for the Patriots at 21
Mon, 6 Mar 2006 12:47:43 -0800
John Tomase, of the Boston Herald, reports the New England Patriots could release CB Tyrone Poole.
Patriots | Brown to be released?
Mon, 6 Mar 2006 12:46:59 -0800
John Tomase, of the Boston Herald, reports the New England Patriots could release LB Chad Brown.
Possibilities for the Patriots at 21
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David Yudkin
Footballguy
I doubt the Pats have the cap room to afford Bruce unless the cap goes way up.
SoloMatisse
Footballguy
The cap will hopefully go way up, but I still dont think Bruce will travel that far north to play for the Pats. He might be a good fit because he's a very solid individual and well respected, but he's probably either resigning with the Rams or staying somewhere in the south close to home. Hopefully a fatter cap will help them re-sign Givens though.
Franknbeans
Footballguy
Seems to me he'd be a great fit in Detroit re-united with Martz. Those receivers up there have had problems with professionalism and work ethic, something Ike could deliver.
Boston
Footballguy
I think a fatter cap makes a Givens return even less likely. It will give a team like Cleveland even more space to go after a guy like Givens. I hate to be doom and gloom but right now I think there's almost no chance of Givens returning. The only way it happens is if the other NFL teams don't like him and he doesn't receive a solid offer which I just don't see happening. Realistically the Pats are only going to give big money to either Givens or Branch...and I'd bet the house it will be on Branch. Givens agent Brad Blank has said they are looking to do a deal quickly and will give the Pats a chance to match but when the smoke clears I expect him to be in another uniform in 06. He's a very good player but the Pats have other more important areas they need to use their cap space on.
nerangers
Footballguy
Teams definitely have more Cap room to be making offers. The Patriots only have about 17 Million in space. Teams like GB and Minn have 30 Million...so I think they will be the ones to set what Adam V gets.
Here is the list of Pat Players on the market now and who they are visiting so far.
kicker Adam Vinatieri
offensive tackle Tom Ashworth - Jets
receiver Troy Brown,
linebacker Matt Chatham - Jets
receiver Andre’ Davis
receiver Tim Dwight
running back Heath Evans
tight end Christian Fauria
quarterback Doug Flutie
receiver David Givens - Dolphins, Texans
offensive guard Stephen Neal
cornerback Chad Scott
safety Michael Stone
Here is the list of Pat Players on the market now and who they are visiting so far.
kicker Adam Vinatieri
offensive tackle Tom Ashworth - Jets
receiver Troy Brown,
linebacker Matt Chatham - Jets
receiver Andre’ Davis
receiver Tim Dwight
running back Heath Evans
tight end Christian Fauria
quarterback Doug Flutie
receiver David Givens - Dolphins, Texans
offensive guard Stephen Neal
cornerback Chad Scott
safety Michael Stone
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David Yudkin
Footballguy
I'm not so sure that this was a big secret. IIRC, either the Boston Globe or the Hearld mentioned that they were interested in Mawae and the team would likely have him in this week. (Read it early this week.)
nerangers
Footballguy
Waiting to see what happens to Adam...
This is a good read while waiting... Forever a Patriot
This is a good read while waiting... Forever a Patriot
Here is hoping he stays a Patriot somehow...
David Yudkin
Footballguy
The Pats have already offered Adam V a new contract that would make him the highest paid kicker in the game and he still said no. I wonder just how much he thinks he's worth vs. all other kickers . . .Waiting to see what happens to Adam...
This is a good read while waiting... Forever a Patriot
Here is hoping he stays a Patriot somehow...
Exile
Footballguy
My understanding is that his problem was not with the amount but rather with the fact that none of the money is guarenteed.The fact that the Pats didn't do everything they can to prevent him from becoming a free agent AND didn't offer him any guarenteed money, makes me think they are concerned about Adam declining significantly. This past year was not that great for him.The Pats have already offered Adam V a new contract that would make him the highest paid kicker in the game and he still said no. I wonder just how much he thinks he's worth vs. all other kickers . . .Waiting to see what happens to Adam...
This is a good read while waiting... Forever a Patriot
Here is hoping he stays a Patriot somehow...
Exile
Footballguy
Good list, although you should add Willie McGinnest, too.For me, the 3 guys I am most going to be disappointed if/when they leave are Givens, McGinnest, and Stephen Neal. In some ways, Neal will be the most missed because I love his game and I love the fact that he worked his ### off to turn himself into an NFL player after not playing college football (he was a champion wrestler instead).
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