Pat Tillman HOF? (1 Viewer)

[GregR_2]

No.Just curious, though...name the Vietnam/Korean/WWII players KIA that keep being referred to obliquely.

WORLD WAR II * Cpl. Mike Basca (HB, Philadelphia, 1941) – Killed in France in 1944 * Lt. Charlie Behan (E, Detroit, 1942) – Killed on Okinawa in 1945 * Maj. Keith Birlem (E, Cardinals-Washington, 1939) – Killed trying to land combat-damaged bomber in England in 1943 * Lt. Al Blozis (T, Giants, 1942-1944) – Killed in France, 1945 * Lt. Chuck Braidwood (E, Portsmouth-Cleveland-Cardinals-Cincinnati, 1930-1933) – Member of Red Cross. Killed in South Pacific, winter 1944-1945 * Lt. Young Bussey (QB, Bears, 1940-1941) – Killed in Philippines landing assault in 1944 * Lt. Jack Chevigny (Coach, Cardinals, 1932) – Killed on Iwo Jima in 1945 * Capt. Ed Doyle (E, Frankford-Pottsville, 1924-1925) – Killed during North Africa invasion in 1942 * Lt. Col. Grassy Hinton (B, Staten Island, 1932) – Killed in plane crash in East Indies in 1944 * Capt. Smiley Johnson (G, Green Bay, 1940-1941) – Killed on Iwo Jima in 1945 * Lt. Eddie Kahn (G, Boston/Washington, 1935-1937) – Died from wounds suffered during Leyte invasion in 1945 * Sgt. Alex Ketzko (T, Detroit, 1943) – Killed in France in 1944 * Capt. Lee Kizzire (FB, Detroit, 1937) – Shot down near New Guinea in 1943 * Lt. Jack Lummus (E, Giants, 1941) – Killed on Iwo Jima in 1945 * Bob Mackert (T, Rochester Jeffersons, 1925) * Frank Maher (B, Pittsburgh-Cleveland Rams, 1941) * Pvt. Jim Mooney (E-G-FB, Newark-Brooklyn-Cincinnati-St. Louis-Cardinals, 1930-1937) – Killed by sniper in France in 1944 * Lt. John O’Keefe (Front office, Philadelphia) – Killed flying a patrol mission in Panama Canal Zone * Chief Spec. Gus Sonnenberg (B, Buffalo-Columbus-Detroit-Providence, 1923-1928, 1930) – Died of illness at Bethesda Naval Hospital in 1944 * Lt. Len Supulski (E, Philadelphia, 1942) – Killed in plane crash in Nebraska in 1944 * Lt. Don Wemple (E, Brooklyn, 1941) – Killed in plane crash in India in 1944 * Lt. Chet Wetterlund (HB, Cardinals-Detroit, 1942) – Killed in plane crash off New Jersey coast in 1944 * Capt. Waddy Young (E, Brooklyn, 1939-1940) – Killed in plane crash following first B-29 raid on Tokyo in 1945VIETNAM * Lt. Bob Kalsu (G, Buffalo, 1968) – Killed in an attack while defending Base Ripcord on July 21, 1970 * Maj. Don Steinbrunner (T, Cleveland Browns, 1953) – Shot down over Kontum, South Vietnam on July 20, 1967

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Great American Hero. Not a HOF football player.

Personally, I think the HOF should be more of a museum than just honoring the most prolific players. I have been in favor of guys like Guy, and Tasker getting in, and I think special stories like that of Tillman should get in, too. I always picture kids a couple generations removed going to the HOF and seeing/reading all the great stories that took place before they were old enough to follow the game.

 

[Bri]

No.Just curious, though...name the Vietnam/Korean/WWII players KIA that keep being referred to obliquely.

WORLD WAR II * Cpl. Mike Basca (HB, Philadelphia, 1941) – Killed in France in 1944 * Lt. Charlie Behan (E, Detroit, 1942) – Killed on Okinawa in 1945 * Maj. Keith Birlem (E, Cardinals-Washington, 1939) – Killed trying to land combat-damaged bomber in England in 1943 * Lt. Al Blozis (T, Giants, 1942-1944) – Killed in France, 1945 * Lt. Chuck Braidwood (E, Portsmouth-Cleveland-Cardinals-Cincinnati, 1930-1933) – Member of Red Cross. Killed in South Pacific, winter 1944-1945 * Lt. Young Bussey (QB, Bears, 1940-1941) – Killed in Philippines landing assault in 1944 * Lt. Jack Chevigny (Coach, Cardinals, 1932) – Killed on Iwo Jima in 1945 * Capt. Ed Doyle (E, Frankford-Pottsville, 1924-1925) – Killed during North Africa invasion in 1942 * Lt. Col. Grassy Hinton (B, Staten Island, 1932) – Killed in plane crash in East Indies in 1944 * Capt. Smiley Johnson (G, Green Bay, 1940-1941) – Killed on Iwo Jima in 1945 * Lt. Eddie Kahn (G, Boston/Washington, 1935-1937) – Died from wounds suffered during Leyte invasion in 1945 * Sgt. Alex Ketzko (T, Detroit, 1943) – Killed in France in 1944 * Capt. Lee Kizzire (FB, Detroit, 1937) – Shot down near New Guinea in 1943 * Lt. Jack Lummus (E, Giants, 1941) – Killed on Iwo Jima in 1945 * Bob Mackert (T, Rochester Jeffersons, 1925) * Frank Maher (B, Pittsburgh-Cleveland Rams, 1941) * Pvt. Jim Mooney (E-G-FB, Newark-Brooklyn-Cincinnati-St. Louis-Cardinals, 1930-1937) – Killed by sniper in France in 1944 * Lt. John O’Keefe (Front office, Philadelphia) – Killed flying a patrol mission in Panama Canal Zone * Chief Spec. Gus Sonnenberg (B, Buffalo-Columbus-Detroit-Providence, 1923-1928, 1930) – Died of illness at Bethesda Naval Hospital in 1944 * Lt. Len Supulski (E, Philadelphia, 1942) – Killed in plane crash in Nebraska in 1944 * Lt. Don Wemple (E, Brooklyn, 1941) – Killed in plane crash in India in 1944 * Lt. Chet Wetterlund (HB, Cardinals-Detroit, 1942) – Killed in plane crash off New Jersey coast in 1944 * Capt. Waddy Young (E, Brooklyn, 1939-1940) – Killed in plane crash following first B-29 raid on Tokyo in 1945VIETNAM * Lt. Bob Kalsu (G, Buffalo, 1968) – Killed in an attack while defending Base Ripcord on July 21, 1970 * Maj. Don Steinbrunner (T, Cleveland Browns, 1953) – Shot down over Kontum, South Vietnam on July 20, 1967

the WWII dates seem fairly late. Weren't we done with Germany in 44 or was it 45? I wonder if their toughness(game was just brutal then) helped them survive so long. That's interesting.

 

[GregR_2]

No.Just curious, though...name the Vietnam/Korean/WWII players KIA that keep being referred to obliquely.

WORLD WAR II * Cpl. Mike Basca (HB, Philadelphia, 1941) – Killed in France in 1944 * Lt. Charlie Behan (E, Detroit, 1942) – Killed on Okinawa in 1945 * Maj. Keith Birlem (E, Cardinals-Washington, 1939) – Killed trying to land combat-damaged bomber in England in 1943 * Lt. Al Blozis (T, Giants, 1942-1944) – Killed in France, 1945 * Lt. Chuck Braidwood (E, Portsmouth-Cleveland-Cardinals-Cincinnati, 1930-1933) – Member of Red Cross. Killed in South Pacific, winter 1944-1945 * Lt. Young Bussey (QB, Bears, 1940-1941) – Killed in Philippines landing assault in 1944 * Lt. Jack Chevigny (Coach, Cardinals, 1932) – Killed on Iwo Jima in 1945 * Capt. Ed Doyle (E, Frankford-Pottsville, 1924-1925) – Killed during North Africa invasion in 1942 * Lt. Col. Grassy Hinton (B, Staten Island, 1932) – Killed in plane crash in East Indies in 1944 * Capt. Smiley Johnson (G, Green Bay, 1940-1941) – Killed on Iwo Jima in 1945 * Lt. Eddie Kahn (G, Boston/Washington, 1935-1937) – Died from wounds suffered during Leyte invasion in 1945 * Sgt. Alex Ketzko (T, Detroit, 1943) – Killed in France in 1944 * Capt. Lee Kizzire (FB, Detroit, 1937) – Shot down near New Guinea in 1943 * Lt. Jack Lummus (E, Giants, 1941) – Killed on Iwo Jima in 1945 * Bob Mackert (T, Rochester Jeffersons, 1925) * Frank Maher (B, Pittsburgh-Cleveland Rams, 1941) * Pvt. Jim Mooney (E-G-FB, Newark-Brooklyn-Cincinnati-St. Louis-Cardinals, 1930-1937) – Killed by sniper in France in 1944 * Lt. John O’Keefe (Front office, Philadelphia) – Killed flying a patrol mission in Panama Canal Zone * Chief Spec. Gus Sonnenberg (B, Buffalo-Columbus-Detroit-Providence, 1923-1928, 1930) – Died of illness at Bethesda Naval Hospital in 1944 * Lt. Len Supulski (E, Philadelphia, 1942) – Killed in plane crash in Nebraska in 1944 * Lt. Don Wemple (E, Brooklyn, 1941) – Killed in plane crash in India in 1944 * Lt. Chet Wetterlund (HB, Cardinals-Detroit, 1942) – Killed in plane crash off New Jersey coast in 1944 * Capt. Waddy Young (E, Brooklyn, 1939-1940) – Killed in plane crash following first B-29 raid on Tokyo in 1945VIETNAM * Lt. Bob Kalsu (G, Buffalo, 1968) – Killed in an attack while defending Base Ripcord on July 21, 1970 * Maj. Don Steinbrunner (T, Cleveland Browns, 1953) – Shot down over Kontum, South Vietnam on July 20, 1967

the WWII dates seem fairly late. Weren't we done with Germany in 44 or was it 45? I wonder if their toughness(game was just brutal then) helped them survive so long. That's interesting.

D-Day didn't happen until June of 1944, and Germany surrendered in May of 1945.

 

[chris1969]

Anybody that willingly forgoes millions of dollars to serve his country in a time of war deserves to be in the HOF. Since the NFL is a government allowed monoploy, I'm surprised it hasn't happened already.

 

[Mario Kart]

As for Sean Taylor- Maybe they could put a memorial or something in the HOF without officially electing him.

Why do you hate Sean Taylor?

 

[Bri]

No.Just curious, though...name the Vietnam/Korean/WWII players KIA that keep being referred to obliquely.

WORLD WAR II * Cpl. Mike Basca (HB, Philadelphia, 1941) – Killed in France in 1944 * Lt. Charlie Behan (E, Detroit, 1942) – Killed on Okinawa in 1945 * Maj. Keith Birlem (E, Cardinals-Washington, 1939) – Killed trying to land combat-damaged bomber in England in 1943 * Lt. Al Blozis (T, Giants, 1942-1944) – Killed in France, 1945 * Lt. Chuck Braidwood (E, Portsmouth-Cleveland-Cardinals-Cincinnati, 1930-1933) – Member of Red Cross. Killed in South Pacific, winter 1944-1945 * Lt. Young Bussey (QB, Bears, 1940-1941) – Killed in Philippines landing assault in 1944 * Lt. Jack Chevigny (Coach, Cardinals, 1932) – Killed on Iwo Jima in 1945 * Capt. Ed Doyle (E, Frankford-Pottsville, 1924-1925) – Killed during North Africa invasion in 1942 * Lt. Col. Grassy Hinton (B, Staten Island, 1932) – Killed in plane crash in East Indies in 1944 * Capt. Smiley Johnson (G, Green Bay, 1940-1941) – Killed on Iwo Jima in 1945 * Lt. Eddie Kahn (G, Boston/Washington, 1935-1937) – Died from wounds suffered during Leyte invasion in 1945 * Sgt. Alex Ketzko (T, Detroit, 1943) – Killed in France in 1944 * Capt. Lee Kizzire (FB, Detroit, 1937) – Shot down near New Guinea in 1943 * Lt. Jack Lummus (E, Giants, 1941) – Killed on Iwo Jima in 1945 * Bob Mackert (T, Rochester Jeffersons, 1925) * Frank Maher (B, Pittsburgh-Cleveland Rams, 1941) * Pvt. Jim Mooney (E-G-FB, Newark-Brooklyn-Cincinnati-St. Louis-Cardinals, 1930-1937) – Killed by sniper in France in 1944 * Lt. John O’Keefe (Front office, Philadelphia) – Killed flying a patrol mission in Panama Canal Zone * Chief Spec. Gus Sonnenberg (B, Buffalo-Columbus-Detroit-Providence, 1923-1928, 1930) – Died of illness at Bethesda Naval Hospital in 1944 * Lt. Len Supulski (E, Philadelphia, 1942) – Killed in plane crash in Nebraska in 1944 * Lt. Don Wemple (E, Brooklyn, 1941) – Killed in plane crash in India in 1944 * Lt. Chet Wetterlund (HB, Cardinals-Detroit, 1942) – Killed in plane crash off New Jersey coast in 1944 * Capt. Waddy Young (E, Brooklyn, 1939-1940) – Killed in plane crash following first B-29 raid on Tokyo in 1945VIETNAM * Lt. Bob Kalsu (G, Buffalo, 1968) – Killed in an attack while defending Base Ripcord on July 21, 1970 * Maj. Don Steinbrunner (T, Cleveland Browns, 1953) – Shot down over Kontum, South Vietnam on July 20, 1967

the WWII dates seem fairly late. Weren't we done with Germany in 44 or was it 45? I wonder if their toughness(game was just brutal then) helped them survive so long. That's interesting.

D-Day didn't happen until June of 1944, and Germany surrendered in May of 1945.

Thanks, I always make that mistake of 44 and 45. Pearl Harbor was Dec 7 1941 and for some reason I always think D-Day was 1942 until I make that oops.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

No way for Tillman and the HOF. There are a lot of great guys that play in the NFL. Serving your country as Tillman did is a great thing but there are other things one can do to be great guys too. Those players aren't being elected and neither should Tillman.

 

[eric rymer]

Never been to the football hall of fame but been to Cooperstown several times. Is there a special wing there,like in baseball,where a person like Tillman could be honored for his sacrifice? And all who served in war, for that matter, who played the game. If so,he belongs there,if not,it should be done.

Was at the Pro Football Hall of Fame over the holidays and they do have a section that spotlights the NFL's war vets. There's a tribute there to Tillman with his picture and uniform and a video. They also had a nice display for Rocky Bleier that I liked.Sorry, don't have a pic. The battery in my camera died.

Found one online: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...l%3Den%26sa%3DX

good find. This is a really nice display. I'm as big a Tillman fan as there is. I loved the way he played and the way he lived. I agree with one of the previous posters that based on his body of work in his brief time in the NFL, no he should not have a bust made of him. I do think he deserves to be in the hall in some way. I think this display is perfect.

 

[Jason Wood]

Whether it should or not, character has played little to no role in the selection process over the years. Lawrence Taylor, by no means a model citizen, got inducted. Michael Irvin, by no means a model citizen, got inducted. These are but two of many examples. My point being, they were inducted for their on-field achievements and their personal, off-the-field issues were not held against them.

By the same measure, as much as Pat Tillman deserves to be recognized as a great patriot and wonderful example of human spirit, his play on the field wasn't worth of Hall induction, and his strength of character shouldn't put him over.

Not helping his cause, by the way, is the difficult safeties generally have in being considered for the Hall. There are a number of contemporary safeties who deserve Hall induction, and yet a few of them will likely fall short [unless the voters dramatically alter the number of safeties they consider per era].

 

[GregR_2]

My own thoughts are in line with what a lot of others have already expressed.

If we want to honor players for sacrifices they made for their country, then include them in a section of the Hall that honors them for exactly that. Don't just give them a spot in the part of the HoF where their playing days didn't warrant it.

 

[CrossEyed]

He was a great American and a hero, an inspiration and a role model.

But he wasn't a Hall of Fame football player.

 

[puckalicious]

I do agree that the NFL and the Cards have sufficiently honored his memory and sacrifice and the HoF is not the place for him. If OJ's activities outside of football don't remove him then I don't think PT's should get him in.

Whether it should or not, character has played little to no role in the selection process over the years. Lawrence Taylor, by no means a model citizen, got inducted. Michael Irvin, by no means a model citizen, got inducted. These are but two of many examples. My point being, they were inducted for their on-field achievements and their personal, off-the-field issues were not held against them.By the same measure, as much as Pat Tillman deserves to be recognized as a great patriot and wonderful example of human spirit, his play on the field wasn't worth of Hall induction, and his strength of character shouldn't put him over.Not helping his cause, by the way, is the difficult safeties generally have in being considered for the Hall. There are a number of contemporary safeties who deserve Hall induction, and yet a few of them will likely fall short [unless the voters dramatically alter the number of safeties they consider per era].

These 2 arguments convinced me he should not be in the HOF. At first I thought he should in theory, but the examples above show how the HOF works in practice.As stated many times, Tillman is an American hero, just not a HOF caliber player.

 

[buster c]

Didn't he die in friendly fire?

What's your point?

hey doc, this looks like a question, not a point

 

[KarmaPolice]

He was a great American and a hero, an inspiration and a role model.But he wasn't a Hall of Fame football player.

And they've honored him as well. His # is retired and his name's in the 'ring of honor' at the stadium. They have a statue of him and a memorial at the stadium. Wasn't there a league-wide thing shortly after where they honored him/wore his number?Fact is, he wasn't a HOF player and I don't think that what players do off the field should start becoming a factor one way or the other. IMO it's on the same lines of guys like OJ not being left out of the HOF for their off-field stuff, Pat shouldn't be in just because of his. Look at the body of work they did on the field and keep it at that.ETA: didn't see some above posts that said basically the same thing.

 

[Koya]

Cris Collinsworth was saying yesterday he's eligible and should be automatic for the HOF, type of guy people should want in etc.Naturally I don't disagree with much of the love for Pat but the NFL/USA lost a lot of football players in WWII and well I'd like to know if they're in the HOF as players or just a list? I think it's just a list.Times are very different. During WWII it was somewhat normal to lose precious lives to the war. Despite the obvious fact that we too were in war, people now are almost shocked and probably sadder as they haven't been conditioned by the continuous flow of death notices like the people in the WWII era. What's the right thing to do here?

If we just keep the conversation about Tillman then I say yes he should get in.........if you start talking about well so and so died during whatever war...maybe not....but if you are doing that I think you are missing the point.....Edit to say: it's the Hall of Fame.........not the Hall of Stats

As was noted before, the fact is Tillman never was nor would have been a HoF player - that doesnt mean he is not a greater man/human than just about everyone who is in there.OJ = HoF football player.Tillman = HoF human being.I like the idea of a hall of honors or something - what he gave up was truly an amazing sacrifice... but it doesnt make his football career more worthy of being in the Hall. It does merit him discussion as a great man who played football, even if he was not a great (at least not HoF) football talent.

 

[TC]

Where does Joe Delaney fit into this discussion?

I thought the very same thing. Both were quality men and it's a matter of preference if you prefer one heroic act the other. (I do.) The HoF was not intended for heroic deeds. Serveral current/recent HoFers were trash or semi-jerks off the field.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

The conservative ethos here has reached a new low.

The guy's dead people. Let him rest in peace.

TIA.

 

[Oh Yes!]

The conservative ethos here has reached a new low.The guy's dead people. Let him rest in peace.TIA.

oh geez.

 

[PatrickT]

The conservative ethos here has reached a new low.The guy's dead people. Let him rest in peace.TIA.

We'd like to let him rest in honor.TIAI think Joe Delaney at least deserves the same consideration. Some good points on both sides here, mostly, but I still hold that this guy deserves an exception.

 

[fatness]

We'd like to let him rest in honor.

With all due respect, his soul is not wandering the earth in a tormented search for honor which is obtainable only by enshrining him in the football hall of fame.

 

[Oh Yes!]

We'd like to let him rest in honor.

With all due respect, his soul is not wandering the earth in a tormented search for honor which is obtainable only by enshrining him in the football hall of fame.

oh yea? how do you know?

 

[PatrickT]

We'd like to let him rest in honor.

With all due respect, his soul is not wandering the earth in a tormented search for honor which is obtainable only by enshrining him in the football hall of fame.

Your point? He said rest in peace, I said rest in honor. You figure he's on a tormented search for peace then? You must, since you challenge me and not him.Obviously, for the thick skulled, neither are FOR him, they are FOR us, and for future generations to understand and appreciate true sacrifice.

 

[fatness]

We'd like to let him rest in honor.

With all due respect, his soul is not wandering the earth in a tormented search for honor which is obtainable only by enshrining him in the football hall of fame.

Your point? He said rest in peace, I said rest in honor.

I took your post to mean he could not rest in honor if he was not in the football hall of fame. Did I read it wrong?

 

[PatrickT]

We'd like to let him rest in honor.

With all due respect, his soul is not wandering the earth in a tormented search for honor which is obtainable only by enshrining him in the football hall of fame.

Your point? He said rest in peace, I said rest in honor.

I took your post to mean he could not rest in honor if he was not in the football hall of fame. Did I read it wrong?

My post was more a response to VBD who attempted, IMO, to politicize Tillman's sacrifice unnecessarily. Doe he REQUIRE the HOF to be honored? No, of course not. Is the HOF a great opportunity to honor the man so that future generations understand the concept? Yes. Many Americans, and of course, other countries, have heroes. They honor their heroes or they forget them. Tillman is a hero, IMO, and I would like to see him honored, regardless of it's affect on his soul's travel plans.IMO, his sacrifice is unique, even given the Joe Delaney (and likely countless others) scenario mentioned before. Joe did not knowingly give up something (as I understood the story), he reacted to a situation. Tillman made a conscious decision and, regardless of your politics, his sacrifice was contemplated and consciously made in order to protect his country and its citizens.

 

[King of the Wolfies]

I believe that the existing memorial to him in there is sufficient

 

[Chaka]

The conservative ethos here has reached a new low.The guy's dead people. Let him rest in peace.TIA.

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[Mikey16x]

Hall of fame, no. But he should be honored higher then Canton. I respect him more then Michael Irvin, Troy Aikman or any other inductee. He was selfless and a different breed of a man. I didn't see any other pro football player give up their million dollar contract to defend our country during a time of need, forget lawyers, doctors or any other high paid job. He should go down as one of the best MEN to ever touch a pro football field.

So in regards to the Hall of Fame... no... if there is a higher honor, he's a first ballot.

 

[bcr8f]

Great American Hero. Not a HOF football player.

No. Give him a special honor.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

He's not a HOF player. Not even close. Maybe there should be a separate exhibit acknowledging the outside-of-football sacrifices of players, and his should be one of many names honored there. But an actual inductee? Aboslutely not.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

The conservative ethos here has reached a new low.The guy's dead people. Let him rest in peace.TIA.

We'd like to let him rest in honor.TIAI think Joe Delaney at least deserves the same consideration. Some good points on both sides here, mostly, but I still hold that this guy deserves an exception.

Why does he deserve an exception? How is inducting him into the HOF an appropriate way to "let him rest in honor?"

 

[PatrickT]

The conservative ethos here has reached a new low.The guy's dead people. Let him rest in peace.TIA.

We'd like to let him rest in honor.TIAI think Joe Delaney at least deserves the same consideration. Some good points on both sides here, mostly, but I still hold that this guy deserves an exception.

Why does he deserve an exception? How is inducting him into the HOF an appropriate way to "let him rest in honor?"

What he did to deserve it is well documented. You either agree with it or you don't, I'm not going to rehash it here. The HOF is appropriate because it's the place where we honor football players who've made significant contributions to the game. I believe Tillman deserves it.

 

[Thunderlips]

Absolutely no to the HOF.He has been honored in other, more appropriate ways that would have meant more to him anyway.

Tillman doesnt care about recognition, guy personifies what a HOFer should be.

Shouldn't we honor the mans viewpoint on recognition by not putting him in the HOF then? Isn't placing him in the HOF doing a disservice to what he stood for?

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

The conservative ethos here has reached a new low.The guy's dead people. Let him rest in peace.TIA.

We'd like to let him rest in honor.TIAI think Joe Delaney at least deserves the same consideration. Some good points on both sides here, mostly, but I still hold that this guy deserves an exception.

Why does he deserve an exception? How is inducting him into the HOF an appropriate way to "let him rest in honor?"

What he did to deserve it is well documented. You either agree with it or you don't, I'm not going to rehash it here. The HOF is appropriate because it's the place where we honor football players who've made significant contributions to the game. I believe Tillman deserves it.

Tillman made significant contributions to his country. I'm not sure about the game though.Warrick Dunn, Derrick Brooks, and many others have made significant contributions to the community, for example. Should they be put in the HOF for those efforts?

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

If the Cardinals really wanted to honor him why don't they name their stadium Pat Tillman Memorial Stadium?

Because no one will pay them $15M / year to do that.

 

[Yitbos69]

I still think A LOT of you don't have a good understanding of what a HOF is about...........it's not all about someones STATS...it's about impact and legacy so based on Tillman's stats he should not get in...but on his impact I think he should and it's not close for me.....

 

[CrossEyed]

I still think A LOT of you don't have a good understanding of what a HOF is about...........it's not all about someones STATS...it's about impact and legacy so based on Tillman's stats he should not get in...but on his impact I think he should and it's not close for me.....

Yes, but it's about their impact on the game. Pat Tillman, for all of his outstanding qualities, simply didn't have a big impact on the NFL.

 

[PatrickT]

The conservative ethos here has reached a new low.The guy's dead people. Let him rest in peace.TIA.

We'd like to let him rest in honor.TIAI think Joe Delaney at least deserves the same consideration. Some good points on both sides here, mostly, but I still hold that this guy deserves an exception.

Why does he deserve an exception? How is inducting him into the HOF an appropriate way to "let him rest in honor?"

What he did to deserve it is well documented. You either agree with it or you don't, I'm not going to rehash it here. The HOF is appropriate because it's the place where we honor football players who've made significant contributions to the game. I believe Tillman deserves it.

Tillman made significant contributions to his country. I'm not sure about the game though.Warrick Dunn, Derrick Brooks, and many others have made significant contributions to the community, for example. Should they be put in the HOF for those efforts?

How many of them willingly and knowingly stood in front of the bullets?

 

[fatness]

Tillman made a conscious decision and, regardless of your politics, his sacrifice was contemplated and consciously made in order to protect his country and its citizens.

Thank you for explaining. Sacrifice, and contributions to others, are not grounds for hall of fame entry. Nor should they be. If they were, various players over time would be admitted for all kinds of reasons since what is considered admirable will change again and again over time. It opens the hall of fame up to whomever is the hero of the day.The hall of fame is about football. Just football.

 

[Yitbos69]

The conservative ethos here has reached a new low.The guy's dead people. Let him rest in peace.TIA.

We'd like to let him rest in honor.TIAI think Joe Delaney at least deserves the same consideration. Some good points on both sides here, mostly, but I still hold that this guy deserves an exception.

Why does he deserve an exception? How is inducting him into the HOF an appropriate way to "let him rest in honor?"

What he did to deserve it is well documented. You either agree with it or you don't, I'm not going to rehash it here. The HOF is appropriate because it's the place where we honor football players who've made significant contributions to the game. I believe Tillman deserves it.

Tillman made significant contributions to his country. I'm not sure about the game though.Warrick Dunn, Derrick Brooks, and many others have made significant contributions to the community, for example. Should they be put in the HOF for those efforts?

How many of them willingly and knowingly stood in front of the bullets?

and walked away from Millions to stand in front of those bullets.......

 

[fatness]

and walked away from Millions to stand in front of those bullets.......

Older players who were killed in military service never had the opportunity to walk away from millions. That is a terrible argument, unless you're saying there's some X amount of $ someone must give up to be considered to the hall of fame.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

The conservative ethos here has reached a new low.The guy's dead people. Let him rest in peace.TIA.

We'd like to let him rest in honor.TIAI think Joe Delaney at least deserves the same consideration. Some good points on both sides here, mostly, but I still hold that this guy deserves an exception.

Why does he deserve an exception? How is inducting him into the HOF an appropriate way to "let him rest in honor?"

What he did to deserve it is well documented. You either agree with it or you don't, I'm not going to rehash it here. The HOF is appropriate because it's the place where we honor football players who've made significant contributions to the game. I believe Tillman deserves it.

Tillman made significant contributions to his country. I'm not sure about the game though.Warrick Dunn, Derrick Brooks, and many others have made significant contributions to the community, for example. Should they be put in the HOF for those efforts?

How many of them willingly and knowingly stood in front of the bullets?

What does standing in front of bullets have to do with the HOF?I get that serving ones country is an honorable thing. I also think running and contributing to countless charities is pretty darn honorable too. And if we're going to put one person in the HOF for doing something honorable, we need to start considering hundreds and hundreds of other former players that did honorable things off the football field too.

 

[Yitbos69]

and walked away from Millions to stand in front of those bullets.......

Older players who were killed in military service never had the opportunity to walk away from millions. That is a terrible argument, unless you're saying there's some X amount of $ someone must give up to be considered to the hall of fame.

I was talking about guys who work with kids at the boys and girls clubs for a a week a year.....they did not give up their day jobs.....Tillman did....I was not talking about anyone who had served in the military

 

[RC94]

My own thoughts are in line with what a lot of others have already expressed.If we want to honor players for sacrifices they made for their country, then include them in a section of the Hall that honors them for exactly that. Don't just give them a spot in the part of the HoF where their playing days didn't warrant it.

I agree.

 

[Thunderlips]

I never realized that Pat Tillman's sacrifice was greater than all those other NFLers who died for their country....or served for that matter.

 

[PatrickT]

I never realized that Pat Tillman's sacrifice was greater than all those other NFLers who died for their country....or served for that matter.

No one has ever suggested that it was. But it shone a bright, postive spotlight on the NFL at the time and, while charity and donating time and money is all a "good thing", making that ultimate sacrifice is a step above IMO. While all serivcemen and women should be honored, NFL or not, this guy brought attention to the NFL with his selflessness that I don't think has ever been equaled. I'm also not insisting on it, or saying the NFL has epically failed if they don't do so. The NFL and the Cards HAVE honored Tillman. But I would still support the HOF in this instance.

And to Fatness: No one is saying to put a dollar figure on your sacrifice, that's not the argument at all. In fact, I'm not sure of your point around older service men not having the opportunity to give up millions. The point around that "millions" argument is that he HAD an option to take the money, and a relatively easy life in the NFL, and chose to serve instead. Hell, some of those older servicemen, esp. WWII, might've been making more in the army than they were in the NFL (not that that in anyway cheapens their service).

 

[Max Power]

I never realized that Pat Tillman's sacrifice was greater than all those other NFLers who died for their country....or served for that matter.

Times have changed. People didn't view the players of 30s-50s how we view players today. NFL players from those days didn't live the lifestyle of the players today. How many NFL starting caliber players have walked away from the game in their prime to persue other careers? I respect the heck out of anyone who gave their life for this country. People's values have changes since those days. It was very refreshing to see someone of Tillman's stature stand-up and do the honerable thing. The HOF shouldn't only be about Stats IMO...

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

I never realized that Pat Tillman's sacrifice was greater than all those other NFLers who died for their country....or served for that matter.

Times have changed. People didn't view the players of 30s-50s how we view players today. NFL players from those days didn't live the lifestyle of the players today. How many NFL starting caliber players have walked away from the game in their prime to persue other careers? I respect the heck out of anyone who gave their life for this country. People's values have changes since those days. It was very refreshing to see someone of Tillman's stature stand-up and do the honerable thing. The HOF shouldn't only be about Stats IMO...

Robert Smith left in his prime to pursue another career. Not sure what has to do with anything though.What was the honorable part of Tillman's decision? Was it joining the military or getting shot? I think it was the choice to join the military and protect his country. The fact he got shot was an unfortunate circumstance in the war. Whether he got shot or not does not make him more or less of a hero, IMO. Everyone that serves their country and fights in a war should be considered on the same level.There are many other players that make similar choices to help people. It make not be by joining the military but I guarentee you that Warrick Dunn, for example, has touched as many lives outside of football as Pat Tillman did by the choices they made. I respect the hell out of both of them for what they did. And if one belongs in the HOF, then both and countless others do too for their honorable decisions too.

 

[Thunderlips]

I never realized that Pat Tillman's sacrifice was greater than all those other NFLers who died for their country....or served for that matter.

Times have changed. People didn't view the players of 30s-50s how we view players today. NFL players from those days didn't live the lifestyle of the players today. How many NFL starting caliber players have walked away from the game in their prime to persue other careers? I respect the heck out of anyone who gave their life for this country. People's values have changes since those days. It was very refreshing to see someone of Tillman's stature stand-up and do the honerable thing. The HOF shouldn't only be about Stats IMO...

Times might have changed in some regards....but the timeless concept of sacrificing for your country hasn't. We all can agree that Tillman's on the field achievements wouldn't have him sniffing the HOF and that only on his service and sacrifice are we even considering him. At the very least, there has to be consistency on this point, at least in relation to military service,sacrifice and the NFL. It doesn't matter who walked away from what kind of money or how the public idolized the sport when they made that choice. You bring up money and the lifestyle of players today. IMO, the money that Tillman made in his short time in the NFL would make it that much easier to leave to pursue something the heart wanted. The men of WWII didn't leave their families with hundreds of thousands of dollars. They left them with very little. Although I admire what some of the NFL community organizers do with their money and time....I don't consider it to be in the same ballpark as what Tillman and the others have done.

 

[Faust]

Football legends belong in Canton; Pat Tillman is one of those