Patriots being investigated after Colts game (3 Viewers)

[TobiasFunke]

http://physics.bu.edu/~schmaltz/deflate.html

Is there any way this can be stickied or pinned?

Surely after ten days there's a scientist out there who supports the Pats/Belichek explanation who is not based in the Boston area, yes?

Surely after ten days, there is an experiment done with balls that prove that they don't lose psi when taken from an indoors environment, into an outdoors environment with a lower temperature, yes?

I didn't ask for an experiment, I asked for support. There's plenty of people out there who have criticized the Belichick explanation (Nye, DeGrasse-Tyson, the ball manufacturers, the Columbia physicists mentioned on the previous page). I'm looking for one person outside the Boston area who disagrees with those people and supports the Belichick explanation. I'm not saying such a person does not exist- I assume they do. I just haven't heard about it.

Nye was joking. Degrasse corrected himself. The ball manufacturer was actually just some marketing guy who works for Wilson. The Colombia physicist didn't even try the experiment.

Cool. So DeGrasse said that Belichick's explanation is valid, then? That's all I'm asking for, a link to a non-Boston area scientist who validates his explanation.

 

[Old Smiley]

Also, am I missing them, or have there really been no fap jokes about deflating balls in the john?

There have been a couple. I think the best are yet to come.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

http://physics.bu.edu/~schmaltz/deflate.html

Is there any way this can be stickied or pinned?

Surely after ten days there's a scientist out there who supports the Pats/Belichek explanation who is not based in the Boston area, yes?

Surely after ten days, there is an experiment done with balls that prove that they don't lose psi when taken from an indoors environment, into an outdoors environment with a lower temperature, yes?

I didn't ask for an experiment, I asked for support. There's plenty of people out there who have criticized the Belichick explanation (Nye, DeGrasse-Tyson, the ball manufacturers, the Columbia physicists mentioned on the previous page). I'm looking for one person outside the Boston area who disagrees with those people and supports the Belichick explanation. I'm not saying such a person does not exist- I assume they do. I just haven't heard about it.

Nye was joking. Degrasse corrected himself. The ball manufacturer was actually just some marketing guy who works for Wilson. The Colombia physicist didn't even try the experiment.

Cool. So DeGrasse said that Belichick's explanation is valid, then? That's all I'm asking for, a link to a non-Boston area scientist who validates his explanation.

Headsmart Labs is in Pittsburgh, I suspect you know that though.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Using that PSI pressure calculator, if the Colts footballs started out at 13.7 PSI (slightly above the threshold), the footballs would have registered at 12.43 PSI as a final pressure.

If the footballs NE supplied started at 12.3 PSI (slighlty below the threshold), then they would have registered a final pressure of 11.09 PSI.

Both of of those starting readings could easily be dimissed as "close enough" for the officials in a squeeze test (and maybe even a gauge test). The Colts footballguys could have been deemed within spec throughout while there would be potential outrage that the NE footballs were under inflated.

And there would have been no one physically deflating the footballs in a bathroom with a needle to get the results that have been reported.

 

[moleculo]

http://physics.bu.edu/~schmaltz/deflate.html

Is there any way this can be stickied or pinned?

Surely after ten days there's a scientist out there who supports the Pats/Belichek explanation who is not based in the Boston area, yes?

I have two science degrees, am not located anywhere near Boston, have been brandied a "salty hater" multiple times in this thread, and I fully endorse this calculator.

 

[moleculo]

Using that PSI pressure calculator, if the Colts footballs started out at 13.7 PSI (slightly above the threshold), the footballs would have registered at 12.43 PSI as a final pressure.

If the footballs NE supplied started at 12.3 PSI (slighlty below the threshold), then they would have registered a final pressure of 11.09 PSI.

Both of of those starting readings could easily be dimissed as "close enough" for the officials in a squeeze test (and maybe even a gauge test). The Colts footballguys could have been deemed within spec throughout while there would be potential outrage that the NE footballs were under inflated.

And there would have been no one physically deflating the footballs in a bathroom with a needle to get the results that have been reported.

honda

 

[Rubi]

This thread sounds like a Marshawn Lynch "interview"

Same babble over and over

 

[Dezbelief]

So, to repeat, starting pressure at 13.0 in about 71 degree conditions. I deflated the football and filled it with a hand pump to 13.0, and tested it after 10 minutes and after 20 minutes in the same room to make sure it was holding steady at 13.0 and it was. Straight into 39 degrees for 35 minutes. Time zero was when I brought it back to 71 degrees.

Time zero: 11.0 p.s.i

+ 1 minute: 11.3 psi

+ 2 minutes: 11.6 psi

+ 4 minutes: 11.95-12.0 psi

+ 7 minutes 12.4 psi

+ 9 minutes 12.6 psi

+ 12 minutes: 12.75 psi

+ 15 minutes 12.95 psi

That's pretty fast, much quicker than I expected.

 

[TobiasFunke]

http://physics.bu.edu/~schmaltz/deflate.html

Is there any way this can be stickied or pinned?

Surely after ten days there's a scientist out there who supports the Pats/Belichek explanation who is not based in the Boston area, yes?

Surely after ten days, there is an experiment done with balls that prove that they don't lose psi when taken from an indoors environment, into an outdoors environment with a lower temperature, yes?

I didn't ask for an experiment, I asked for support. There's plenty of people out there who have criticized the Belichick explanation (Nye, DeGrasse-Tyson, the ball manufacturers, the Columbia physicists mentioned on the previous page). I'm looking for one person outside the Boston area who disagrees with those people and supports the Belichick explanation. I'm not saying such a person does not exist- I assume they do. I just haven't heard about it.

Nye was joking. Degrasse corrected himself. The ball manufacturer was actually just some marketing guy who works for Wilson. The Colombia physicist didn't even try the experiment.

Cool. So DeGrasse said that Belichick's explanation is valid, then? That's all I'm asking for, a link to a non-Boston area scientist who validates his explanation.

Headsmart Labs is in Pittsburgh, I suspect you know that though.

I did not. Googled to find link to their take. Thanks

 

[randall146]

So, to repeat, starting pressure at 13.0 in about 71 degree conditions. I deflated the football and filled it with a hand pump to 13.0, and tested it after 10 minutes and after 20 minutes in the same room to make sure it was holding steady at 13.0 and it was. Straight into 39 degrees for 35 minutes. Time zero was when I brought it back to 71 degrees.

Time zero: 11.0 p.s.i

+ 1 minute: 11.3 psi

+ 2 minutes: 11.6 psi

+ 4 minutes: 11.95-12.0 psi

+ 7 minutes 12.4 psi

+ 9 minutes 12.6 psi

+ 12 minutes: 12.75 psi

+ 15 minutes 12.95 psi

Can you write "Colts" on the ball and try again?

 

[the moops]

So, to repeat, starting pressure at 13.0 in about 71 degree conditions. I deflated the football and filled it with a hand pump to 13.0, and tested it after 10 minutes and after 20 minutes in the same room to make sure it was holding steady at 13.0 and it was. Straight into 39 degrees for 35 minutes. Time zero was when I brought it back to 71 degrees.

Time zero: 11.0 p.s.i

+ 1 minute: 11.3 psi

+ 2 minutes: 11.6 psi

+ 4 minutes: 11.95-12.0 psi

+ 7 minutes 12.4 psi

+ 9 minutes 12.6 psi

+ 12 minutes: 12.75 psi

+ 15 minutes 12.95 psi

Can you write "Colts" on the ball and try again?

sureSo, to repeat, starting pressure at 13.0 in about 71 degree conditions. I deflated the football and filled it with a hand pump to 13.0, and tested it after 10 minutes and after 20 minutes in the same room to make sure it was holding steady at 13.0 and it was. Straight into 39 degrees for 35 minutes. Time zero was when I brought it back to 71 degrees.

Time zero: 11.0 p.s.i

+ 1 minute: 11.3 psi

+ 2 minutes: 11.6 psi

+ 4 minutes: 11.95-12.0 psi

+ 7 minutes 12.4 psi

+ 9 minutes 12.6 psi

+ 12 minutes: 12.75 psi

+ 15 minutes 12.95 psi

 

[[icon]]

So, to repeat, starting pressure at 13.0 in about 71 degree conditions. I deflated the football and filled it with a hand pump to 13.0, and tested it after 10 minutes and after 20 minutes in the same room to make sure it was holding steady at 13.0 and it was. Straight into 39 degrees for 35 minutes. Time zero was when I brought it back to 71 degrees.

Time zero: 11.0 p.s.i

+ 1 minute: 11.3 psi

+ 2 minutes: 11.6 psi

+ 4 minutes: 11.95-12.0 psi

+ 7 minutes 12.4 psi

+ 9 minutes 12.6 psi

+ 12 minutes: 12.75 psi

+ 15 minutes 12.95 psi

Can you write "Colts" on the ball and try again?

 

[Tango]

http://physics.bu.edu/~schmaltz/deflate.html

Is there any way this can be stickied or pinned?

Surely after ten days there's a scientist out there who supports the Pats/Belichek explanation who is not based in the Boston area, yes?

Surely after ten days, there is an experiment done with balls that prove that they don't lose psi when taken from an indoors environment, into an outdoors environment with a lower temperature, yes?

I didn't ask for an experiment, I asked for support. There's plenty of people out there who have criticized the Belichick explanation (Nye, DeGrasse-Tyson, the ball manufacturers, the Columbia physicists mentioned on the previous page). I'm looking for one person outside the Boston area who disagrees with those people and supports the Belichick explanation. I'm not saying such a person does not exist- I assume they do. I just haven't heard about it.

Nye was joking. Degrasse corrected himself. The ball manufacturer was actually just some marketing guy who works for Wilson. The Colombia physicist didn't even try the experiment.

Cool. So DeGrasse said that Belichick's explanation is valid, then? That's all I'm asking for, a link to a non-Boston area scientist who validates his explanation.

Headsmart Labs is in Pittsburgh, I suspect you know that though.

I did not. Googled to find link to their take. Thanks

To summarize the science so far:

Bill Nye: Didnt seem to buy it

DeGrasse: Corrected his initial report, but in the corrected report makes it clear that the initial air would need to be more than 90 degrees. So it wasnt a win for the Pats there.

Lab video: Showed that the pressure could drop between 1.5-1.9 pounds from 75 degrees to 50 when wet (only one that really helps the Pats in any way)

Boston Globe a few days ago: Despite a few crazy quotes that can be taken out of context, a few scientists agreed with Belichick directionally, but none of them said that 2 pounds made sense. They just agreed directionally.

So you decide...but from I what I can see Patriots fans so far have very little to lean on science-wise.

But it doesnt matter because if/when the science is disproven even if there is some sort of video evidence, Pats fans will blame it on the aforementioned space aliens (I mean, you didnt actually see what happened did you? Space aliens *might* have taken the balls from the ball-boy in the bathroom....how do you know?)

 

[mbuehner]

http://physics.bu.edu/~schmaltz/deflate.html

Is there any way this can be stickied or pinned?

Surely after ten days there's a scientist out there who supports the Pats/Belichek explanation who is not based in the Boston area, yes?

Surely after ten days, there is an experiment done with balls that prove that they don't lose psi when taken from an indoors environment, into an outdoors environment with a lower temperature, yes?

I didn't ask for an experiment, I asked for support. There's plenty of people out there who have criticized the Belichick explanation (Nye, DeGrasse-Tyson, the ball manufacturers, the Columbia physicists mentioned on the previous page). I'm looking for one person outside the Boston area who disagrees with those people and supports the Belichick explanation. I'm not saying such a person does not exist- I assume they do. I just haven't heard about it.

Nye was joking. Degrasse corrected himself. The ball manufacturer was actually just some marketing guy who works for Wilson. The Colombia physicist didn't even try the experiment.

Cool. So DeGrasse said that Belichick's explanation is valid, then? That's all I'm asking for, a link to a non-Boston area scientist who validates his explanation.

Headsmart Labs is in Pittsburgh, I suspect you know that though.

I did not. Googled to find link to their take. Thanks

To summarize the science so far:

Bill Nye: Didnt seem to buy it

DeGrasse: Corrected his initial report, but in the corrected report makes it clear that the initial air would need to be more than 90 degrees. So it wasnt a win for the Pats there.

Lab video: Showed that the pressure could drop between 1.5-1.9 pounds from 75 degrees to 50 when wet (only one that really helps the Pats in any way)

Boston Globe a few days ago: Despite a few crazy quotes that can be taken out of context, a few scientists agreed with Belichick directionally, but none of them said that 2 pounds made sense. They just agreed directionally.

So you decide...but from I what I can see Patriots fans so far have very little to lean on science-wise.

But it doesnt matter because if/when the science is disproven even if there is some sort of video evidence, Pats fans will blame it on the aforementioned space aliens (I mean, you didnt actually see what happened did you? Space aliens *might* have taken the balls from the ball-boy in the bathroom....how do you know?)

Except that... the latest sources said all of the Pats balls lost close to 1psi, except the ball the Colts had possession of. Hmm...

 

[the moops]

The whole 2 pound thing is an issue for everyone. If in fact all the Pats balls were 2 pounds under, I agree that they may have some additional explaining to do. But if the difference is closer to 1 or 1.5, that also has been reported, then the temperature change and weather are a sufficient explanation.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

The whole 2 pound thing is an issue for everyone. If in fact all the Pats balls were 2 pounds under, I agree that they may have some additional explaining to do. But if the difference is closer to 1 or 1.5, that also has been reported, then the temperature change and weather are a sufficient explanation.

I agree and either the NFL can duplicate the process the Pats said they followed or they can't. If they can this has been a horrendous witch hunt instigated from butt hurt patriots opponents who hate them because they win.

If the nfl can't duplicate similar results from the patriots process then there will be some splainin to do.

I am confident it will be the latter and sadly I am also confident that the butt hurt NE hater tools (we know who they are) will whine about a deflate conspiracy, "spys" who take pictures in full view of 80,00 people, radio helmets, fumble rates, oho, but the patriots, ooo, hoo, hoo, they, but they, they, wah, wah, wah . Anything to disparage NEs 4th SB title and one of the greatest QBs who ever lived; pretty sad really :(

 

[Deamon]

The whole 2 pound thing is an issue for everyone. If in fact all the Pats balls were 2 pounds under, I agree that they may have some additional explaining to do. But if the difference is closer to 1 or 1.5, that also has been reported, then the temperature change and weather are a sufficient explanation.

I agree and either the NFL can duplicate the process the Pats said they followed or they can't. If they can this has been a horrendous witch hunt instigated from butt hurt patriots opponents who hate them because they win.

If the nfl can't duplicate similar results from the patriots process then there will be some splainin to do.

I am confident it will be the latter and sadly I am also confident that the butt hurt NE hater tools (we know who they are) will whine about a deflate conspiracy, "spys" who take pictures in full view of 80,00 people, radio helmets, fumble rates, oho, but the patriots, ooo, hoo, hoo, they, but they, they, wah, wah, wah . Anything to disparage NEs 4th SB title and one of the greatest QBs who ever lived; pretty sad really :(

I just don't understand why if they don't just do that. One phone call:

Hey Bill/Tom, can you tell me what you guys do to prep the balls?

They replicate all the conditions that day, do their test, and either say "Ya, they did lose about the same amount in the test as they did on game day", or "It was pretty off here, we're going to release a report that it was quite different".

Wouldn't this make everyone on both sides finally happy and able to move on?

 

[General Tso]

Florio has better connections to the player reps and union stuff and is generally hostile to the suits. King has better connections to the league office and is generally chummy with the NFL brass. Florio injects his opinion into his writing enough to undermine the reporting approximately 99.95% of time. King is typically pretty clear when he's reporting and when he's offering an opinion.

Both have their uses, but you'd be crazy not to consider the context and subject when reading either.

You conveniently neglected to mention that Florio hates Belichik. Hates him.

 

[mbuehner]

The whole 2 pound thing is an issue for everyone. If in fact all the Pats balls were 2 pounds under, I agree that they may have some additional explaining to do. But if the difference is closer to 1 or 1.5, that also has been reported, then the temperature change and weather are a sufficient explanation.

I agree and either the NFL can duplicate the process the Pats said they followed or they can't. If they can this has been a horrendous witch hunt instigated from butt hurt patriots opponents who hate them because they win.

If the nfl can't duplicate similar results from the patriots process then there will be some splainin to do.

I am confident it will be the latter and sadly I am also confident that the butt hurt NE hater tools (we know who they are) will whine about a deflate conspiracy, "spys" who take pictures in full view of 80,00 people, radio helmets, fumble rates, oho, but the patriots, ooo, hoo, hoo, they, but they, they, wah, wah, wah . Anything to disparage NEs 4th SB title and one of the greatest QBs who ever lived; pretty sad really :(

I just don't understand why if they don't just do that. One phone call:

Hey Bill/Tom, can you tell me what you guys do to prep the balls?

They replicate all the conditions that day, do their test, and either say "Ya, they did lose about the same amount in the test as they did on game day", or "It was pretty off here, we're going to release a report that it was quite different".

Wouldn't this make everyone on both sides finally happy and able to move on?

Right, but here's the catch- you needed to have reasonably precise measurements taken AND recorded on gameday, to replicate what happened.

If the refs didnt measure the balls pregame, we dont know that they were official when the game started.

If the refs did a cursory measurement at halftime, found the Pats balls 1 to 2 pounds below the official rule, but didnt write down actual measurements, we have a different problem.

IE- the NFL looks bad, which is a problem for the NFL. If that were the case, you might make a big show of an investigation, hiring an outside P.I. firm, grabbing cell phone records, etc to show how thorough you can be. And hope you get a pass for your refs not taking the thing seriously enough at the time.

 

[General Tso]

The whole 2 pound thing is an issue for everyone. If in fact all the Pats balls were 2 pounds under, I agree that they may have some additional explaining to do. But if the difference is closer to 1 or 1.5, that also has been reported, then the temperature change and weather are a sufficient explanation.

Bingo. This is all you need to know about this whole subject.I've been using a threshhold of -1.5. That seems to be the mean decrease in psi that would occur naturally given a temperature differrential of 25 degrees that was in play that night, combined with the effect of rain. So if the Pats inflated to 12.5 - the footballs would deflate naturally to 11.0. That's not opinion. It's scientific fact. I have seen 3 experiments confirming this, and it matches up with the correct calculations done via pv=nrt. As for the Colts balls not decreasing by more than 1.0 (if in fact they were measured) the burden of proof should be on them as to why their balls don't subscribe to the Ideal Gas Law.

If the Pats balls decreased by more than 1.5 - I will be suspicious. If not, Pats are completely exonerated and definitely did nothing wrong.

 

[Deamon]

The whole 2 pound thing is an issue for everyone. If in fact all the Pats balls were 2 pounds under, I agree that they may have some additional explaining to do. But if the difference is closer to 1 or 1.5, that also has been reported, then the temperature change and weather are a sufficient explanation.

I agree and either the NFL can duplicate the process the Pats said they followed or they can't. If they can this has been a horrendous witch hunt instigated from butt hurt patriots opponents who hate them because they win.

If the nfl can't duplicate similar results from the patriots process then there will be some splainin to do.

I am confident it will be the latter and sadly I am also confident that the butt hurt NE hater tools (we know who they are) will whine about a deflate conspiracy, "spys" who take pictures in full view of 80,00 people, radio helmets, fumble rates, oho, but the patriots, ooo, hoo, hoo, they, but they, they, wah, wah, wah . Anything to disparage NEs 4th SB title and one of the greatest QBs who ever lived; pretty sad really :(

I just don't understand why if they don't just do that. One phone call:

Hey Bill/Tom, can you tell me what you guys do to prep the balls?

They replicate all the conditions that day, do their test, and either say "Ya, they did lose about the same amount in the test as they did on game day", or "It was pretty off here, we're going to release a report that it was quite different".

Wouldn't this make everyone on both sides finally happy and able to move on?

Right, but here's the catch- you needed to have reasonably precise measurements taken AND recorded on gameday, to replicate what happened.

If the refs didnt measure the balls pregame, we dont know that they were official when the game started.

If the refs did a cursory measurement at halftime, found the Pats balls 1 to 2 pounds below the official rule, but didnt write down actual measurements, we have a different problem.

IE- the NFL looks bad, which is a problem for the NFL. If that were the case, you might make a big show of an investigation, hiring an outside P.I. firm, grabbing cell phone records, etc to show how thorough you can be. And hope you get a pass for your refs not taking the thing seriously enough at the time.

Well if it's the case that the refs simply didn't check and/or record the PSI's, then they need to just drop it. The longer they let this go on, it makes it look like they're trying to cover up something too. The sides seem to be separating with how long this has gone on, and with what Bill/NFL have both said. For both sides, the "cover up" is going to be far worse and far bigger of a black eye then the actual infraction was.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

The whole 2 pound thing is an issue for everyone. If in fact all the Pats balls were 2 pounds under, I agree that they may have some additional explaining to do. But if the difference is closer to 1 or 1.5, that also has been reported, then the temperature change and weather are a sufficient explanation.

I agree and either the NFL can duplicate the process the Pats said they followed or they can't. If they can this has been a horrendous witch hunt instigated from butt hurt patriots opponents who hate them because they win.

If the nfl can't duplicate similar results from the patriots process then there will be some splainin to do.

I am confident it will be the latter and sadly I am also confident that the butt hurt NE hater tools (we know who they are) will whine about a deflate conspiracy, "spys" who take pictures in full view of 80,00 people, radio helmets, fumble rates, oho, but the patriots, ooo, hoo, hoo, they, but they, they, wah, wah, wah . Anything to disparage NEs 4th SB title and one of the greatest QBs who ever lived; pretty sad really :(

I just don't understand why if they don't just do that. One phone call:

Hey Bill/Tom, can you tell me what you guys do to prep the balls?

They replicate all the conditions that day, do their test, and either say "Ya, they did lose about the same amount in the test as they did on game day", or "It was pretty off here, we're going to release a report that it was quite different".

Wouldn't this make everyone on both sides finally happy and able to move on?

Once the "story" was leaked to Chris Mortenson the NFL had no choice but to go full throttle; there is way, way too much animosity toward NE to poo poo it. Even if as reported the initial leak was greatly exaggerated to make NE look worse the nfl can't drop it since they screwed up the AP and Ray Rice wife beating; plus the other 31 teams perpetual butt hurt toward NE.

I think as much as some in the league office would like to take shortcuts they can't and there are some in the league office (Tensil?) who want badly to nail the pats.

 

[General Tso]

http://physics.bu.edu/~schmaltz/deflate.html

Is there any way this can be stickied or pinned?

Surely after ten days there's a scientist out there who supports the Pats/Belichek explanation who is not based in the Boston area, yes?

Surely after ten days, there is an experiment done with balls that prove that they don't lose psi when taken from an indoors environment, into an outdoors environment with a lower temperature, yes?

I didn't ask for an experiment, I asked for support. There's plenty of people out there who have criticized the Belichick explanation (Nye, DeGrasse-Tyson, the ball manufacturers, the Columbia physicists mentioned on the previous page). I'm looking for one person outside the Boston area who disagrees with those people and supports the Belichick explanation. I'm not saying such a person does not exist- I assume they do. I just haven't heard about it.

Nye was joking. Degrasse corrected himself. The ball manufacturer was actually just some marketing guy who works for Wilson. The Colombia physicist didn't even try the experiment.

Cool. So DeGrasse said that Belichick's explanation is valid, then? That's all I'm asking for, a link to a non-Boston area scientist who validates his explanation.

Headsmart Labs is in Pittsburgh, I suspect you know that though.

I did not. Googled to find link to their take. Thanks

To summarize the science so far:

Bill Nye: Didnt seem to buy it

DeGrasse: Corrected his initial report, but in the corrected report makes it clear that the initial air would need to be more than 90 degrees. So it wasnt a win for the Pats there.

Lab video: Showed that the pressure could drop between 1.5-1.9 pounds from 75 degrees to 50 when wet (only one that really helps the Pats in any way)

Boston Globe a few days ago: Despite a few crazy quotes that can be taken out of context, a few scientists agreed with Belichick directionally, but none of them said that 2 pounds made sense. They just agreed directionally.

So you decide...but from I what I can see Patriots fans so far have very little to lean on science-wise.

But it doesnt matter because if/when the science is disproven even if there is some sort of video evidence, Pats fans will blame it on the aforementioned space aliens (I mean, you didnt actually see what happened did you? Space aliens *might* have taken the balls from the ball-boy in the bathroom....how do you know?)

The NDT calculation is done based on an assumption that the original Mort report was true - in other words it supposed a drop of 2-3 psi. The Florio report that came out later cited a psi drop of 1.0. So NDT's calculation would support the notion that a 1.0 drop in psi would be the minimum amount you'd expect based on a 25 degree drop in temperature.It all depends what the psi drop was. See my post a few minutes ago.

 

[sdp1226]

115 pages, huh? Can anyone summarize this thread?

 

[ChuckLiddell]

Florio has better connections to the player reps and union stuff and is generally hostile to the suits. King has better connections to the league office and is generally chummy with the NFL brass. Florio injects his opinion into his writing enough to undermine the reporting approximately 99.95% of time. King is typically pretty clear when he's reporting and when he's offering an opinion.

Both have their uses, but you'd be crazy not to consider the context and subject when reading either.

You conveniently neglected to mention that Florio hates Belichik. Hates him.

I havent been counting, but from casually lurking in this thread it seems like there are at least 40 people who have been called out for hating/despising/deploring the very existence of Bellichick, which has for some reason also implied that their opinions are not valid. A question:

Why do so many people (including the NFL as an organization apparently) hate the guy? It cant be just because he wins a lot. I dont recall any such vitriol for Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs, or Don Shula, and they won a lot too. So what is it about him that so many people seem to despise so much? He is certainly smug, and lacking in personality - but thats not unusual for head coaches in the NFL and neither are traits that should lead so many to such strong feelings of hatred. What is it with this guy? Is it that they question his integrity?

 

[General Tso]

115 pages, huh? Can anyone summarize this thread?

OJ was apparently innocent.

 

[mbuehner]

I think the nightmare scenario here is that the refs didnt write down the halftime measurements, and everyone just recalls the balls being between 1 and 2 pounds under.

Or maybe thats the best case, because everybody can claim victory.

 

[KarmaPolice]

115 pages, huh? Can anyone summarize this thread?

just like a snap shot of 'Murica: people don't accept science and cant seem to use common sense?

 

[General Tso]

Florio has better connections to the player reps and union stuff and is generally hostile to the suits. King has better connections to the league office and is generally chummy with the NFL brass. Florio injects his opinion into his writing enough to undermine the reporting approximately 99.95% of time. King is typically pretty clear when he's reporting and when he's offering an opinion.

Both have their uses, but you'd be crazy not to consider the context and subject when reading either.

You conveniently neglected to mention that Florio hates Belichik. Hates him.

I havent been counting, but from casually lurking in this thread it seems like there are at least 40 people who have been called out for hating/despising/deploring the very existence of Bellichick, which has for some reason also implied that their opinions are not valid. A question:Why do so many people (including the NFL as an organization apparently) hate the guy? It cant be just because he wins a lot. I dont recall any such vitriol for Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs, or Don Shula, and they won a lot too. So what is it about him that so many people seem to despise so much? He is certainly smug, and lacking in personality - but thats not unusual for head coaches in the NFL and neither are traits that should lead so many to such strong feelings of hatred. What is it with this guy? Is it that they question his integrity?

From one of my posts last night...Everyone knows people don't like Belichik's approach. But he got that way for a reason. He's a very smart man. He's probably learned over the years what we are all starting to see right now with the media. They aren't interested in what really matters, they are more about style than substance, and they always have an agenda - and it's usually not arriving at the truth. One of the things that makes Bill so great is is insistence on reducing distractions and keeping his players focused on football. Belichik is a great football coach. He's not a television personality, though. But as people are starting to see, he can be incredibly funny at times. He's an acquired taste, and I wish Anerica would get to see more of him away from those stupid weekly press conferences.

 

[Flying Elvis]

I have two science degrees, am not located anywhere near Boston, have been brandied a "salty hater" multiple times in this thread, and I fully endorse this calculator.

FWIW - I've found your posts to be entirely reasonable and your logic/arguments well laid out.

 

[sdp1226]

115 pages, huh? Can anyone summarize this thread?

just like a snap shot of 'Murica: people don't accept science and cant seem to use common sense?

So a lot of salty poo slingin' and deflecting. Sounds about right.

 

[12punch]

Someone reference the common knowledge of trying to bounce a basketball in the winter and how the cold air effects the pressure in the ball. I have played football my entire life, using a football from inside my 70 deg house and playing in 40 deg or less weather sometimes. I don't remember losing pressure in those few hours. I think temp can change the pressure in some circumstances but to the degree where it would alert the NFL to investigate?

So, You Gained No Competitive Advantage, And, In Fact, couldn't Even Notice The Difference

Duly noted

 

[Morton Muffley]

The whole 2 pound thing is an issue for everyone. If in fact all the Pats balls were 2 pounds under, I agree that they may have some additional explaining to do. But if the difference is closer to 1 or 1.5, that also has been reported, then the temperature change and weather are a sufficient explanation.

I agree and either the NFL can duplicate the process the Pats said they followed or they can't. If they can this has been a horrendous witch hunt instigated from butt hurt patriots opponents who hate them because they win.

If the nfl can't duplicate similar results from the patriots process then there will be some splainin to do.

I am confident it will be the latter and sadly I am also confident that the butt hurt NE hater tools (we know who they are) will whine about a deflate conspiracy, "spys" who take pictures in full view of 80,00 people, radio helmets, fumble rates, oho, but the patriots, ooo, hoo, hoo, they, but they, they, wah, wah, wah . Anything to disparage NEs 4th SB title and one of the greatest QBs who ever lived; pretty sad really :(

I just don't understand why if they don't just do that. One phone call:Hey Bill/Tom, can you tell me what you guys do to prep the balls?

They replicate all the conditions that day, do their test, and either say "Ya, they did lose about the same amount in the test as they did on game day", or "It was pretty off here, we're going to release a report that it was quite different".

Wouldn't this make everyone on both sides finally happy and able to move on?

Right, but here's the catch- you needed to have reasonably precise measurements taken AND recorded on gameday, to replicate what happened.

If the refs didnt measure the balls pregame, we dont know that they were official when the game started.

If the refs did a cursory measurement at halftime, found the Pats balls 1 to 2 pounds below the official rule, but didnt write down actual measurements, we have a different problem.

IE- the NFL looks bad, which is a problem for the NFL. If that were the case, you might make a big show of an investigation, hiring an outside P.I. firm, grabbing cell phone records, etc to show how thorough you can be. And hope you get a pass for your refs not taking the thing seriously enough at the time.

Well if it's the case that the refs simply didn't check and/or record the PSI's, then they need to just drop it. The longer they let this go on, it makes it look like they're trying to cover up something too. The sides seem to be separating with how long this has gone on, and with what Bill/NFL have both said. For both sides, the "cover up" is going to be far worse and far bigger of a black eye then the actual infraction was.

But if you were the nfl and had previously been seen to conduct incompetent investigations and your refs were shown to be incompetent here don't you think you'd hire a whole bunch of outside firms and delay the release of the findings until AFTER the SB has been played? Y'know like when AFTER all the attention has died down? Maybe you'd rather have some known felons be on the hook during the time when the entire world is watching???

 

[KarmaPolice]

Florio has better connections to the player reps and union stuff and is generally hostile to the suits. King has better connections to the league office and is generally chummy with the NFL brass. Florio injects his opinion into his writing enough to undermine the reporting approximately 99.95% of time. King is typically pretty clear when he's reporting and when he's offering an opinion.

Both have their uses, but you'd be crazy not to consider the context and subject when reading either.

You conveniently neglected to mention that Florio hates Belichik. Hates him.

I havent been counting, but from casually lurking in this thread it seems like there are at least 40 people who have been called out for hating/despising/deploring the very existence of Bellichick, which has for some reason also implied that their opinions are not valid. A question:Why do so many people (including the NFL as an organization apparently) hate the guy? It cant be just because he wins a lot. I dont recall any such vitriol for Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs, or Don Shula, and they won a lot too. So what is it about him that so many people seem to despise so much? He is certainly smug, and lacking in personality - but thats not unusual for head coaches in the NFL and neither are traits that should lead so many to such strong feelings of hatred. What is it with this guy? Is it that they question his integrity?

1. His "charisma"

2. He doesn't play well with the media

3. Spygate

4. He ####s around with the injury report

5. He beats a lot of people, and refuses to lay off the throttle during games

6. He rips the sleeves off his sweatshirts

7. Everybody talks about how damn smart the guy is

 

[12punch]

115 pages, huh? Can anyone summarize this thread?

Watch The Movie idiocracy

 

[Road Warriors]

You pats lovers are missing the point. I know everyone is clearly aware that the weather would've effected Indy balls.

But if it was something so simple as a temp drop as some of you are stating then it would've effected both teams. Again, common knowledge. But where my point comes in, is if this were the case I think it would be VERY easy to see that this was the case by comparing the drop in the psi. I doubt the nfl would have let this whole thing run of the tracks without making sure it wasn't just air temp effecting the balls.

Not to mention, there are far colder games played in the NFL every season. Surely this problem would have come up before now if weather was the culprit.

If nobody complained, they would never have checked the balls at halftime. In over 30 years of watching the NFL, I've never once heard of taking a psi measurement at halftime. It isn't part of the rules, and it isn't something that is done. This was on request or part of a sting.

I am willing to bet if you were to take a psi measurement of game balls at room temp before a game in Lambeau in late dec, them take another measurement at the half, you'd find a drop in psi.

 

[Morton Muffley]

I think the nightmare scenario here is that the refs didnt write down the halftime measurements, and everyone just recalls the balls being between 1 and 2 pounds under.

Or maybe thats the best case, because everybody can claim victory.

I think this is the most likely scenario and in the court of public opinion will hurt the patriots considerably

 

[moleculo]

I have two science degrees, am not located anywhere near Boston, have been brandied a "salty hater" multiple times in this thread, and I fully endorse this calculator.

FWIW - I've found your posts to be entirely reasonable and your logic/arguments well laid out.

thank you.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

Florio has better connections to the player reps and union stuff and is generally hostile to the suits. King has better connections to the league office and is generally chummy with the NFL brass. Florio injects his opinion into his writing enough to undermine the reporting approximately 99.95% of time. King is typically pretty clear when he's reporting and when he's offering an opinion.

Both have their uses, but you'd be crazy not to consider the context and subject when reading either.

You conveniently neglected to mention that Florio hates Belichik. Hates him.

I havent been counting, but from casually lurking in this thread it seems like there are at least 40 people who have been called out for hating/despising/deploring the very existence of Bellichick, which has for some reason also implied that their opinions are not valid. A question:Why do so many people (including the NFL as an organization apparently) hate the guy? It cant be just because he wins a lot. I dont recall any such vitriol for Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs, or Don Shula, and they won a lot too. So what is it about him that so many people seem to despise so much? He is certainly smug, and lacking in personality - but thats not unusual for head coaches in the NFL and neither are traits that should lead so many to such strong feelings of hatred. What is it with this guy? Is it that they question his integrity?

From one of my posts last night...Everyone knows people don't like Belichik's approach. But he got that way for a reason. He's a very smart man. He's probably learned over the years what we are all starting to see right now with the media. They aren't interested in what really matters, they are more about style than substance, and they always have an agenda - and it's usually not arriving at the truth. One of the things that makes Bill so great is is insistence on reducing distractions and keeping his players focused on football. Belichik is a great football coach. He's not a television personality, though. But as people are starting to see, he can be incredibly funny at times. He's an acquired taste, and I wish Anerica would get to see more of him away from those stupid weekly press conferences.

Thoughtful post, but in no way does this justify the high level of unadulterated hatred that Patriots fans seem to think so many people have for the guy. Hatred that would drive them to express opinions that could potentially change the man's legacy. A lot of coaches in a lot of sports are not great television personalities and not always kind to the media. I havent seen too many instances (any?) where that led members of the media or respected voices of the brand to present unsubstantiated opinions in an effort to intentionally ruin a man's legacy. On the surface, that seems silly.

It would make more sense to think that if these people hate him to the extent that Patriot fans seem to think they do, there is a better reason than that. Just spitballing here, but one such logical reason could theoretically be a perceived lack of respect for the integrity of the game. I could see so much hatred for a man who is perceived guilty of this crime much more than being guilty of having a perceived bad television personality.

 

[mbuehner]

115 pages, huh? Can anyone summarize this thread?

Summarize this thread in 7 words:

Takes 90 Seconds to deflate your balls.

 

[bostonfred]

Florio has better connections to the player reps and union stuff and is generally hostile to the suits. King has better connections to the league office and is generally chummy with the NFL brass. Florio injects his opinion into his writing enough to undermine the reporting approximately 99.95% of time. King is typically pretty clear when he's reporting and when he's offering an opinion.

Both have their uses, but you'd be crazy not to consider the context and subject when reading either.

You conveniently neglected to mention that Florio hates Belichik. Hates him.

I havent been counting, but from casually lurking in this thread it seems like there are at least 40 people who have been called out for hating/despising/deploring the very existence of Bellichick, which has for some reason also implied that their opinions are not valid. A question:Why do so many people (including the NFL as an organization apparently) hate the guy? It cant be just because he wins a lot. I dont recall any such vitriol for Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs, or Don Shula, and they won a lot too. So what is it about him that so many people seem to despise so much? He is certainly smug, and lacking in personality - but thats not unusual for head coaches in the NFL and neither are traits that should lead so many to such strong feelings of hatred. What is it with this guy? Is it that they question his integrity?

imagine that you need to write an attention grabbing headline piece about the patriots chiefs game. First you go interview Reid, and he tells you what a great opponent the patriots are, but that our guys really bought into the gameplan, and Alex smith really did a great job playing within himself, and blah blah blah. You get a couple paragraphs of cliche ridden coach speak, wrap it up with some stats, and the article writes itself. then you go to belichicks post game presser, and he answers every question with "we're on to Cincinnati". that's actually a noteworthy quote from this season, too.

Then you go to each coach during the week to ask what's going on with the team, and some of the coaches tell you who's hurt and how long they're expected to be out. Then belichick tells them that brady is questionable with a shoulder and solder has a leg. That just makes your job harder again.

After a while, the teams that are winning nonstop for years are the ones people want to hear most about. but the coach not only doesn't say anything, he's also instructed his players not to say anything. Have you ever heard Tom Brady talk about the Jaguars? They're a really good team that's had a little bad luck really on but they have a ton of talent on that roster and we really need to play our best game this week. Try working with that for the roughly 250 games those two have been qb/coach together and tell me how fun it would be to have to find another way of writing 1000 words on this team.

as a fan, I like it. I'm sure the team likes not having the distractions. But whenever something like this comes out, and the media actually had something n new and interesting to write about this team, how could they not?

 

[sdp1226]

115 pages, huh? Can anyone summarize this thread?

Watch The Movie idiocracy

Here's an appropriate quote.

"justice was not only blind, but had become rather ######ed as well."

 

[theplayer11]

Florio has better connections to the player reps and union stuff and is generally hostile to the suits. King has better connections to the league office and is generally chummy with the NFL brass. Florio injects his opinion into his writing enough to undermine the reporting approximately 99.95% of time. King is typically pretty clear when he's reporting and when he's offering an opinion.

Both have their uses, but you'd be crazy not to consider the context and subject when reading either.

You conveniently neglected to mention that Florio hates Belichik. Hates him.

I havent been counting, but from casually lurking in this thread it seems like there are at least 40 people who have been called out for hating/despising/deploring the very existence of Bellichick, which has for some reason also implied that their opinions are not valid. A question:

Why do so many people (including the NFL as an organization apparently) hate the guy? It cant be just because he wins a lot. I dont recall any such vitriol for Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs, or Don Shula, and they won a lot too. So what is it about him that so many people seem to despise so much? He is certainly smug, and lacking in personality - but thats not unusual for head coaches in the NFL and neither are traits that should lead so many to such strong feelings of hatred. What is it with this guy? Is it that they question his integrity?

the media hates him because he doesn't give them anything..SO..the media drives the hate and the sheep follow. Belichick is always complimentary to other teams and players and never makes excuses. There is really no reason for other teams fans to hate the guy..except that the Patriots beat their teams a lot.

 

[Flying Elvis]

Florio has better connections to the player reps and union stuff and is generally hostile to the suits. King has better connections to the league office and is generally chummy with the NFL brass. Florio injects his opinion into his writing enough to undermine the reporting approximately 99.95% of time. King is typically pretty clear when he's reporting and when he's offering an opinion.

Both have their uses, but you'd be crazy not to consider the context and subject when reading either.

You conveniently neglected to mention that Florio hates Belichik. Hates him.

I havent been counting, but from casually lurking in this thread it seems like there are at least 40 people who have been called out for hating/despising/deploring the very existence of Bellichick, which has for some reason also implied that their opinions are not valid. A question:Why do so many people (including the NFL as an organization apparently) hate the guy? It cant be just because he wins a lot. I dont recall any such vitriol for Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs, or Don Shula, and they won a lot too. So what is it about him that so many people seem to despise so much? He is certainly smug, and lacking in personality - but thats not unusual for head coaches in the NFL and neither are traits that should lead so many to such strong feelings of hatred. What is it with this guy? Is it that they question his integrity?

From one of my posts last night...Everyone knows people don't like Belichik's approach. But he got that way for a reason. He's a very smart man. He's probably learned over the years what we are all starting to see right now with the media. They aren't interested in what really matters, they are more about style than substance, and they always have an agenda - and it's usually not arriving at the truth. One of the things that makes Bill so great is is insistence on reducing distractions and keeping his players focused on football. Belichik is a great football coach. He's not a television personality, though. But as people are starting to see, he can be incredibly funny at times. He's an acquired taste, and I wish Anerica would get to see more of him away from those stupid weekly press conferences.

Thoughtful post, but in no way does this justify the high level of unadulterated hatred that Patriots fans seem to think so many people have for the guy. Hatred that would drive them to express opinions that could potentially change the man's legacy. A lot of coaches in a lot of sports are not great television personalities and not always kind to the media. I havent seen too many instances (any?) where that led members of the media or respected voices of the brand to present unsubstantiated opinions in an effort to intentionally ruin a man's legacy. On the surface, that seems silly.

It would make more sense to think that if these people hate him to the extent that Patriot fans seem to think they do, there is a better reason than that. Just spitballing here, but one such logical reason could theoretically be a perceived lack of respect for the integrity of the game. I could see so much hatred for a man who is perceived guilty of this crime much more than being guilty of having a perceived bad television personality.

I'm not sure about anyone else's beliefs about it, but I only think the media hates BB. And, even at that, I only think the non-local media hates him. The local guys get great results in interviews and other interactions because there is a trust factor and BB doesn't see them as the vultures that most media people are. Clearly, there are Jets (and for Jets) people that hate him for ditching them, and there are likely plenty of people around the league that dislike him for mere "salty hater" reasons. There are former players that BB's teams have trounced (*cough* Faulk *cough*) that are, unquestionably, "salty haters." But that's probably not what you want to hear, since the Pats Patsies angle makes your argument that the hate is all about cheating sound more reasonable.

 

[KarmaPolice]

115 pages, huh? Can anyone summarize this thread?

Summarize this thread in 7 words:

Takes 90 Seconds to deflate your balls.

A lot less time in the yoga pants thread.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

Florio has better connections to the player reps and union stuff and is generally hostile to the suits. King has better connections to the league office and is generally chummy with the NFL brass. Florio injects his opinion into his writing enough to undermine the reporting approximately 99.95% of time. King is typically pretty clear when he's reporting and when he's offering an opinion.

Both have their uses, but you'd be crazy not to consider the context and subject when reading either.

You conveniently neglected to mention that Florio hates Belichik. Hates him.

I havent been counting, but from casually lurking in this thread it seems like there are at least 40 people who have been called out for hating/despising/deploring the very existence of Bellichick, which has for some reason also implied that their opinions are not valid. A question:Why do so many people (including the NFL as an organization apparently) hate the guy? It cant be just because he wins a lot. I dont recall any such vitriol for Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs, or Don Shula, and they won a lot too. So what is it about him that so many people seem to despise so much? He is certainly smug, and lacking in personality - but thats not unusual for head coaches in the NFL and neither are traits that should lead so many to such strong feelings of hatred. What is it with this guy? Is it that they question his integrity?

From one of my posts last night...Everyone knows people don't like Belichik's approach. But he got that way for a reason. He's a very smart man. He's probably learned over the years what we are all starting to see right now with the media. They aren't interested in what really matters, they are more about style than substance, and they always have an agenda - and it's usually not arriving at the truth. One of the things that makes Bill so great is is insistence on reducing distractions and keeping his players focused on football. Belichik is a great football coach. He's not a television personality, though. But as people are starting to see, he can be incredibly funny at times. He's an acquired taste, and I wish Anerica would get to see more of him away from those stupid weekly press conferences.

Thoughtful post, but in no way does this justify the high level of unadulterated hatred that Patriots fans seem to think so many people have for the guy. Hatred that would drive them to express opinions that could potentially change the man's legacy. A lot of coaches in a lot of sports are not great television personalities and not always kind to the media. I havent seen too many instances (any?) where that led members of the media or respected voices of the brand to present unsubstantiated opinions in an effort to intentionally ruin a man's legacy. On the surface, that seems silly.

It would make more sense to think that if these people hate him to the extent that Patriot fans seem to think they do, there is a better reason than that. Just spitballing here, but one such logical reason could theoretically be a perceived lack of respect for the integrity of the game. I could see so much hatred for a man who is perceived guilty of this crime much more than being guilty of having a perceived bad television personality.

I'm not sure about anyone else's beliefs about it, but I only think the media hates BB. And, even at that, I only think the non-local media hates him. The local guys get great results in interviews and other interactions because there is a trust factor and BB doesn't see them as the vultures that most media people are. Clearly, there are Jets (and for Jets) people that hate him for ditching them, and there are likely plenty of people around the league that dislike him for mere "salty hater" reasons. There are former players that BB's teams have trounced (*cough* Faulk *cough*) that are, unquestionably, "salty haters." But that's probably not what you want to hear, since the Pats Patsies angle makes your argument that the hate is all about cheating sound more reasonable.

The idea that Marshall Faulk or any other player hates Bill Belichick simply because he lost to his team fair and square is laughable. The world would need more hate if that was enough to elicit the emotion. However, if a player feels that they did not lose to him on a level playing field, that would certainly change the narrative a bit. I could see Faulk or any other player being a salty hater if that is what he feels happened, and it would be a justified emotion in my opinion.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Florio has better connections to the player reps and union stuff and is generally hostile to the suits. King has better connections to the league office and is generally chummy with the NFL brass. Florio injects his opinion into his writing enough to undermine the reporting approximately 99.95% of time. King is typically pretty clear when he's reporting and when he's offering an opinion.

Both have their uses, but you'd be crazy not to consider the context and subject when reading either.

You conveniently neglected to mention that Florio hates Belichik. Hates him.

I havent been counting, but from casually lurking in this thread it seems like there are at least 40 people who have been called out for hating/despising/deploring the very existence of Bellichick, which has for some reason also implied that their opinions are not valid. A question:Why do so many people (including the NFL as an organization apparently) hate the guy? It cant be just because he wins a lot. I dont recall any such vitriol for Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs, or Don Shula, and they won a lot too. So what is it about him that so many people seem to despise so much? He is certainly smug, and lacking in personality - but thats not unusual for head coaches in the NFL and neither are traits that should lead so many to such strong feelings of hatred. What is it with this guy? Is it that they question his integrity?

imagine that you need to write an attention grabbing headline piece about the patriots chiefs game. First you go interview Reid, and he tells you what a great opponent the patriots are, but that our guys really bought into the gameplan, and Alex smith really did a great job playing within himself, and blah blah blah. You get a couple paragraphs of cliche ridden coach speak, wrap it up with some stats, and the article writes itself. then you go to belichicks post game presser, and he answers every question with "we're on to Cincinnati". that's actually a noteworthy quote from this season, too.

Then you go to each coach during the week to ask what's going on with the team, and some of the coaches tell you who's hurt and how long they're expected to be out. Then belichick tells them that brady is questionable with a shoulder and solder has a leg. That just makes your job harder again.

After a while, the teams that are winning nonstop for years are the ones people want to hear most about. but the coach not only doesn't say anything, he's also instructed his players not to say anything. Have you ever heard Tom Brady talk about the Jaguars? They're a really good team that's had a little bad luck really on but they have a ton of talent on that roster and we really need to play our best game this week. Try working with that for the roughly 250 games those two have been qb/coach together and tell me how fun it would be to have to find another way of writing 1000 words on this team.

as a fan, I like it. I'm sure the team likes not having the distractions. But whenever something like this comes out, and the media actually had something n new and interesting to write about this team, how could they not?

exactly, then combine that with beating a lot of teams badly while being a forward thinker for weird formations, going for it on 4th down, no huddle, etc.. while people talk about how much smarter than other coaches he is. This is a league of competitive alpha males, and can understand players/other coaches not liking him too.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

Florio has better connections to the player reps and union stuff and is generally hostile to the suits. King has better connections to the league office and is generally chummy with the NFL brass. Florio injects his opinion into his writing enough to undermine the reporting approximately 99.95% of time. King is typically pretty clear when he's reporting and when he's offering an opinion.

Both have their uses, but you'd be crazy not to consider the context and subject when reading either.

You conveniently neglected to mention that Florio hates Belichik. Hates him.

I havent been counting, but from casually lurking in this thread it seems like there are at least 40 people who have been called out for hating/despising/deploring the very existence of Bellichick, which has for some reason also implied that their opinions are not valid. A question:Why do so many people (including the NFL as an organization apparently) hate the guy? It cant be just because he wins a lot. I dont recall any such vitriol for Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs, or Don Shula, and they won a lot too. So what is it about him that so many people seem to despise so much? He is certainly smug, and lacking in personality - but thats not unusual for head coaches in the NFL and neither are traits that should lead so many to such strong feelings of hatred. What is it with this guy? Is it that they question his integrity?

imagine that you need to write an attention grabbing headline piece about the patriots chiefs game. First you go interview Reid, and he tells you what a great opponent the patriots are, but that our guys really bought into the gameplan, and Alex smith really did a great job playing within himself, and blah blah blah. You get a couple paragraphs of cliche ridden coach speak, wrap it up with some stats, and the article writes itself.then you go to belichicks post game presser, and he answers every question with "we're on to Cincinnati". that's actually a noteworthy quote from this season, too.

Then you go to each coach during the week to ask what's going on with the team, and some of the coaches tell you who's hurt and how long they're expected to be out. Then belichick tells them that brady is questionable with a shoulder and solder has a leg. That just makes your job harder again.

After a while, the teams that are winning nonstop for years are the ones people want to hear most about. but the coach not only doesn't say anything, he's also instructed his players not to say anything. Have you ever heard Tom Brady talk about the Jaguars? They're a really good team that's had a little bad luck really on but they have a ton of talent on that roster and we really need to play our best game this week. Try working with that for the roughly 250 games those two have been qb/coach together and tell me how fun it would be to have to find another way of writing 1000 words on this team.

as a fan, I like it. I'm sure the team likes not having the distractions. But whenever something like this comes out, and the media actually had something n new and interesting to write about this team, how could they not?

exactly, then combine that with beating a lot of teams badly while being a forward thinker for weird formations, going for it on 4th down, no huddle, etc.. while people talk about how much smarter than other coaches he is. This is a league of competitive alpha males, and can understand players/other coaches not liking him too.

Seriously? Bill Walsh was an innovator too, and I dont remember anyone ever saying one negative word about the man.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Florio has better connections to the player reps and union stuff and is generally hostile to the suits. King has better connections to the league office and is generally chummy with the NFL brass. Florio injects his opinion into his writing enough to undermine the reporting approximately 99.95% of time. King is typically pretty clear when he's reporting and when he's offering an opinion.

Both have their uses, but you'd be crazy not to consider the context and subject when reading either.

You conveniently neglected to mention that Florio hates Belichik. Hates him.

I havent been counting, but from casually lurking in this thread it seems like there are at least 40 people who have been called out for hating/despising/deploring the very existence of Bellichick, which has for some reason also implied that their opinions are not valid. A question:Why do so many people (including the NFL as an organization apparently) hate the guy? It cant be just because he wins a lot. I dont recall any such vitriol for Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs, or Don Shula, and they won a lot too. So what is it about him that so many people seem to despise so much? He is certainly smug, and lacking in personality - but thats not unusual for head coaches in the NFL and neither are traits that should lead so many to such strong feelings of hatred. What is it with this guy? Is it that they question his integrity?

From one of my posts last night...Everyone knows people don't like Belichik's approach. But he got that way for a reason. He's a very smart man. He's probably learned over the years what we are all starting to see right now with the media. They aren't interested in what really matters, they are more about style than substance, and they always have an agenda - and it's usually not arriving at the truth. One of the things that makes Bill so great is is insistence on reducing distractions and keeping his players focused on football. Belichik is a great football coach. He's not a television personality, though. But as people are starting to see, he can be incredibly funny at times. He's an acquired taste, and I wish Anerica would get to see more of him away from those stupid weekly press conferences.

Thoughtful post, but in no way does this justify the high level of unadulterated hatred that Patriots fans seem to think so many people have for the guy. Hatred that would drive them to express opinions that could potentially change the man's legacy. A lot of coaches in a lot of sports are not great television personalities and not always kind to the media. I havent seen too many instances (any?) where that led members of the media or respected voices of the brand to present unsubstantiated opinions in an effort to intentionally ruin a man's legacy. On the surface, that seems silly. It would make more sense to think that if these people hate him to the extent that Patriot fans seem to think they do, there is a better reason than that. Just spitballing here, but one such logical reason could theoretically be a perceived lack of respect for the integrity of the game. I could see so much hatred for a man who is perceived guilty of this crime much more than being guilty of having a perceived bad television personality.

I'm not sure about anyone else's beliefs about it, but I only think the media hates BB. And, even at that, I only think the non-local media hates him. The local guys get great results in interviews and other interactions because there is a trust factor and BB doesn't see them as the vultures that most media people are. Clearly, there are Jets (and for Jets) people that hate him for ditching them, and there are likely plenty of people around the league that dislike him for mere "salty hater" reasons. There are former players that BB's teams have trounced (*cough* Faulk *cough*) that are, unquestionably, "salty haters." But that's probably not what you want to hear, since the Pats Patsies angle makes your argument that the hate is all about cheating sound more reasonable.

The idea that Marshall Faulk or any other player hates Bill Belichick simply because he lost to his team fair and square is laughable. The world would need more hate if that was enough to elicit the emotion. However, if a player feels that they did not lose to him on a level playing field, that would certainly change the narrative a bit. I could see Faulk or any other player being a salty hater if that is what he feels happened, and it would be a justified emotion in my opinion.

of course a player like Faulk might feel like that, but it doesn't mean it is grounded in reality.

 

[MG345]

Florio has better connections to the player reps and union stuff and is generally hostile to the suits. King has better connections to the league office and is generally chummy with the NFL brass. Florio injects his opinion into his writing enough to undermine the reporting approximately 99.95% of time. King is typically pretty clear when he's reporting and when he's offering an opinion.

Both have their uses, but you'd be crazy not to consider the context and subject when reading either.

You conveniently neglected to mention that Florio hates Belichik. Hates him.

I havent been counting, but from casually lurking in this thread it seems like there are at least 40 people who have been called out for hating/despising/deploring the very existence of Bellichick, which has for some reason also implied that their opinions are not valid. A question:Why do so many people (including the NFL as an organization apparently) hate the guy? It cant be just because he wins a lot. I dont recall any such vitriol for Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs, or Don Shula, and they won a lot too. So what is it about him that so many people seem to despise so much? He is certainly smug, and lacking in personality - but thats not unusual for head coaches in the NFL and neither are traits that should lead so many to such strong feelings of hatred. What is it with this guy? Is it that they question his integrity?

imagine that you need to write an attention grabbing headline piece about the patriots chiefs game. First you go interview Reid, and he tells you what a great opponent the patriots are, but that our guys really bought into the gameplan, and Alex smith really did a great job playing within himself, and blah blah blah. You get a couple paragraphs of cliche ridden coach speak, wrap it up with some stats, and the article writes itself.then you go to belichicks post game presser, and he answers every question with "we're on to Cincinnati". that's actually a noteworthy quote from this season, too.

Then you go to each coach during the week to ask what's going on with the team, and some of the coaches tell you who's hurt and how long they're expected to be out. Then belichick tells them that brady is questionable with a shoulder and solder has a leg. That just makes your job harder again.

After a while, the teams that are winning nonstop for years are the ones people want to hear most about. but the coach not only doesn't say anything, he's also instructed his players not to say anything. Have you ever heard Tom Brady talk about the Jaguars? They're a really good team that's had a little bad luck really on but they have a ton of talent on that roster and we really need to play our best game this week. Try working with that for the roughly 250 games those two have been qb/coach together and tell me how fun it would be to have to find another way of writing 1000 words on this team.

as a fan, I like it. I'm sure the team likes not having the distractions. But whenever something like this comes out, and the media actually had something n new and interesting to write about this team, how could they not?

exactly, then combine that with beating a lot of teams badly while being a forward thinker for weird formations, going for it on 4th down, no huddle, etc.. while people talk about how much smarter than other coaches he is. This is a league of competitive alpha males, and can understand players/other coaches not liking him too.

Seriously? Bill Walsh was an innovator too, and I dont remember anyone ever saying one negative word about the man.

wat

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/25/bill-parcells-still-thinks-bill-walsh-cheated-during-1980s-playoffs/