Patriots being investigated after Colts game (3 Viewers)

[KarmaPolice]

Florio has better connections to the player reps and union stuff and is generally hostile to the suits. King has better connections to the league office and is generally chummy with the NFL brass. Florio injects his opinion into his writing enough to undermine the reporting approximately 99.95% of time. King is typically pretty clear when he's reporting and when he's offering an opinion.

Both have their uses, but you'd be crazy not to consider the context and subject when reading either.

You conveniently neglected to mention that Florio hates Belichik. Hates him.

I havent been counting, but from casually lurking in this thread it seems like there are at least 40 people who have been called out for hating/despising/deploring the very existence of Bellichick, which has for some reason also implied that their opinions are not valid. A question:Why do so many people (including the NFL as an organization apparently) hate the guy? It cant be just because he wins a lot. I dont recall any such vitriol for Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs, or Don Shula, and they won a lot too. So what is it about him that so many people seem to despise so much? He is certainly smug, and lacking in personality - but thats not unusual for head coaches in the NFL and neither are traits that should lead so many to such strong feelings of hatred. What is it with this guy? Is it that they question his integrity?

imagine that you need to write an attention grabbing headline piece about the patriots chiefs game. First you go interview Reid, and he tells you what a great opponent the patriots are, but that our guys really bought into the gameplan, and Alex smith really did a great job playing within himself, and blah blah blah. You get a couple paragraphs of cliche ridden coach speak, wrap it up with some stats, and the article writes itself.then you go to belichicks post game presser, and he answers every question with "we're on to Cincinnati". that's actually a noteworthy quote from this season, too.

Then you go to each coach during the week to ask what's going on with the team, and some of the coaches tell you who's hurt and how long they're expected to be out. Then belichick tells them that brady is questionable with a shoulder and solder has a leg. That just makes your job harder again.

After a while, the teams that are winning nonstop for years are the ones people want to hear most about. but the coach not only doesn't say anything, he's also instructed his players not to say anything. Have you ever heard Tom Brady talk about the Jaguars? They're a really good team that's had a little bad luck really on but they have a ton of talent on that roster and we really need to play our best game this week. Try working with that for the roughly 250 games those two have been qb/coach together and tell me how fun it would be to have to find another way of writing 1000 words on this team.

as a fan, I like it. I'm sure the team likes not having the distractions. But whenever something like this comes out, and the media actually had something n new and interesting to write about this team, how could they not?

exactly, then combine that with beating a lot of teams badly while being a forward thinker for weird formations, going for it on 4th down, no huddle, etc.. while people talk about how much smarter than other coaches he is. This is a league of competitive alpha males, and can understand players/other coaches not liking him too.

Seriously? Bill Walsh was an innovator too, and I dont remember anyone ever saying one negative word about the man.

this is a perfect storm of all the stuff we have been listing.

 

[12punch]

115 pages, huh? Can anyone summarize this thread?

Idiocracy

 

[General Tso]

Florio has better connections to the player reps and union stuff and is generally hostile to the suits. King has better connections to the league office and is generally chummy with the NFL brass. Florio injects his opinion into his writing enough to undermine the reporting approximately 99.95% of time. King is typically pretty clear when he's reporting and when he's offering an opinion.

Both have their uses, but you'd be crazy not to consider the context and subject when reading either.

You conveniently neglected to mention that Florio hates Belichik. Hates him.

I havent been counting, but from casually lurking in this thread it seems like there are at least 40 people who have been called out for hating/despising/deploring the very existence of Bellichick, which has for some reason also implied that their opinions are not valid. A question:Why do so many people (including the NFL as an organization apparently) hate the guy? It cant be just because he wins a lot. I dont recall any such vitriol for Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs, or Don Shula, and they won a lot too. So what is it about him that so many people seem to despise so much? He is certainly smug, and lacking in personality - but thats not unusual for head coaches in the NFL and neither are traits that should lead so many to such strong feelings of hatred. What is it with this guy? Is it that they question his integrity?

From one of my posts last night...Everyone knows people don't like Belichik's approach. But he got that way for a reason. He's a very smart man. He's probably learned over the years what we are all starting to see right now with the media. They aren't interested in what really matters, they are more about style than substance, and they always have an agenda - and it's usually not arriving at the truth. One of the things that makes Bill so great is is insistence on reducing distractions and keeping his players focused on football. Belichik is a great football coach. He's not a television personality, though. But as people are starting to see, he can be incredibly funny at times. He's an acquired taste, and I wish Anerica would get to see more of him away from those stupid weekly press conferences.

Thoughtful post, but in no way does this justify the high level of unadulterated hatred that Patriots fans seem to think so many people have for the guy. Hatred that would drive them to express opinions that could potentially change the man's legacy. A lot of coaches in a lot of sports are not great television personalities and not always kind to the media. I havent seen too many instances (any?) where that led members of the media or respected voices of the brand to present unsubstantiated opinions in an effort to intentionally ruin a man's legacy. On the surface, that seems silly. It would make more sense to think that if these people hate him to the extent that Patriot fans seem to think they do, there is a better reason than that. Just spitballing here, but one such logical reason could theoretically be a perceived lack of respect for the integrity of the game. I could see so much hatred for a man who is perceived guilty of this crime much more than being guilty of having a perceived bad television personality.

It's a good discussion. Will respond later with more thoughts on it. Would love to hear what others think...

 

[Bayhawks]

The whole 2 pound thing is an issue for everyone. If in fact all the Pats balls were 2 pounds under, I agree that they may have some additional explaining to do. But if the difference is closer to 1 or 1.5, that also has been reported, then the temperature change and weather are a sufficient explanation.

Bingo. This is all you need to know about this whole subject.I've been using a threshhold of -1.5. That seems to be the mean decrease in psi that would occur naturally given a temperature differrential of 25 degrees that was in play that night, combined with the effect of rain. So if the Pats inflated to 12.5 - the footballs would deflate naturally to 11.0. That's not opinion. It's scientific fact. I have seen 3 experiments confirming this, and it matches up with the correct calculations done via pv=nrt. As for the Colts balls not decreasing by more than 1.0 (if in fact they were measured) the burden of proof should be on them as to why their balls don't subscribe to the Ideal Gas Law.

If the Pats balls decreased by more than 1.5 - I will be suspicious. If not, Pats are completely exonerated and definitely did nothing wrong.

I agree with the majority of this post, but (nit-picking a little here), why is the burden of proof on the Colts to explain why their balls stayed within the legal threshold, but the burden of proof is not on the Patriots to explain why their balls did not?

I will apologize in advance if you are not one of the posters who has previously posted that the burden of proof in this situation is on the NFL, not on the Pats.

 

[Old Smiley]

Florio has better connections to the player reps and union stuff and is generally hostile to the suits. King has better connections to the league office and is generally chummy with the NFL brass. Florio injects his opinion into his writing enough to undermine the reporting approximately 99.95% of time. King is typically pretty clear when he's reporting and when he's offering an opinion.

Both have their uses, but you'd be crazy not to consider the context and subject when reading either.

You conveniently neglected to mention that Florio hates Belichik. Hates him.

I havent been counting, but from casually lurking in this thread it seems like there are at least 40 people who have been called out for hating/despising/deploring the very existence of Bellichick, which has for some reason also implied that their opinions are not valid. A question:Why do so many people (including the NFL as an organization apparently) hate the guy? It cant be just because he wins a lot. I dont recall any such vitriol for Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs, or Don Shula, and they won a lot too. So what is it about him that so many people seem to despise so much? He is certainly smug, and lacking in personality - but thats not unusual for head coaches in the NFL and neither are traits that should lead so many to such strong feelings of hatred. What is it with this guy? Is it that they question his integrity?

1. His "charisma"

2. He doesn't play well with the media

3. Spygate

4. He ####s around with the injury report

5. He beats a lot of people, and refuses to lay off the throttle during games

6. He rips the sleeves off his sweatshirts

7. Everybody talks about how damn smart the guy is

4. He ####s around with the injury report

I said this in the Superbowl thread, but in a league where Greg Williams says, "Let's test that inside ACL." Can you blame the man for protecting his guys.

5. He beats a lot of people, and refuses to lay off the throttle during games

How many times have teams let up and lost. How 'bout them Packers, eh?

As to Spygate, I think Bill answered that one as well as I've heard it answered in Saturday's press conference:

Belichick: "Look, that's a whole 'nother discussion. The guy's giving signals in front of 80,000 people, OK? So we filmed him making signals out in front of 80,000 people like there were a lot of other teams doing at that time too.

...

"The guy is in front of 80,000 people. 80,000 people saw it. Everybody on the sideline saw it. Everybody sees our guy in front of 80,000 people. There he is."

I do think it's the media a lot. I think people read stuff and think they thought it.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Florio has better connections to the player reps and union stuff and is generally hostile to the suits. King has better connections to the league office and is generally chummy with the NFL brass. Florio injects his opinion into his writing enough to undermine the reporting approximately 99.95% of time. King is typically pretty clear when he's reporting and when he's offering an opinion.

Both have their uses, but you'd be crazy not to consider the context and subject when reading either.

You conveniently neglected to mention that Florio hates Belichik. Hates him.

I havent been counting, but from casually lurking in this thread it seems like there are at least 40 people who have been called out for hating/despising/deploring the very existence of Bellichick, which has for some reason also implied that their opinions are not valid. A question:Why do so many people (including the NFL as an organization apparently) hate the guy? It cant be just because he wins a lot. I dont recall any such vitriol for Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs, or Don Shula, and they won a lot too. So what is it about him that so many people seem to despise so much? He is certainly smug, and lacking in personality - but thats not unusual for head coaches in the NFL and neither are traits that should lead so many to such strong feelings of hatred. What is it with this guy? Is it that they question his integrity?

1. His "charisma"2. He doesn't play well with the media

3. Spygate

4. He ####s around with the injury report

5. He beats a lot of people, and refuses to lay off the throttle during games

6. He rips the sleeves off his sweatshirts

7. Everybody talks about how damn smart the guy is

4. He ####s around with the injury report

I said this in the Superbowl thread, but in a league where Greg Williams says, "Let's test that inside ACL." Can you blame the man for protecting his guys.

5. He beats a lot of people, and refuses to lay off the throttle during games

How many times have teams let up and lost. How 'bout them Packers, eh?

As to Spygate, I think Bill answered that one as well as I've heard it answered in Saturday's press conference:

Belichick: "Look, that's a whole 'nother discussion. The guy's giving signals in front of 80,000 people, OK? So we filmed him making signals out in front of 80,000 people like there were a lot of other teams doing at that time too.

...

"The guy is in front of 80,000 people. 80,000 people saw it. Everybody on the sideline saw it. Everybody sees our guy in front of 80,000 people. There he is."

I do think it's the media a lot. I think people read stuff and think they thought it.

i love Bill, but these are the things i keep seeing brought up with him, and i get people not liking the dude.

 

[Todem]

It's all a bunch of bull####.

Spygate, inflategate.

All bull####.

I hate the Pat's with a passion......a real passion (being a Dolphins fan) but even I am now going to root for them because:

1. I can't stand that punk outfit called the Seattle Seahawks...screw them and their fans (although I love Wilson as a QB total class act and heck of a player)

2. All this talk going on two weeks about some deflated balls is such a bunch of nonsense I want to see the Pat's stick it to the NFL and the media and I would like to see Brady get his 4th ring and go down with Montana and Bradshaw as accomplishing this feat. Brady is one of the all-time greats. He is going to prove it again this Sunday.

Go Patriots....and screw the NFL. It's changed for the absolute worse. Where as College Football keeps getting better and better.

The NFL is a joke now.

 

[Road Warriors]

You cancel out some terms, because its air and the football volume is fixed (we're also assuming the barometric pressure is fixed but technically its not between indoors and outdoors- its higher out in the rainy air it would decrease the internal pressured even more, but thats hard to quantify).
Came to find out its actually Gay-Lussac's Law, which is the variation of the Ideal Gas Law, P1/T1=P2/T2. But to work, the temperature has to be in Kelvin, and the pressure has to be absolute pressure, not gauge pressure which is what you read off the gauge. Hence the further machinations. Its pretty easy though once you understand all that:

(Gauge Pressure + 14.7)/(Initial Degrees Fahrenheit + 459.67) = P2/ (Final Degrees Fahrenheit + 459.67).

cross multiply

(GP+14.7) x (Temp2+459.67) / (Temp1+459.67) = P2

Then subtract 14.7 from the result to get back to Gauge Pressure for comparison.

Thanks for this.

So, this shows that if the footballs were filled in a 70 degree room (to 12.5 PSI, which is a reasonable assumption to me based on Brady's stated preference for a lower-inflated ball), they could have been 1 PSI lower simply due to the temperature.

If I had to decide what happened (and obviously, I don't) based on what we know (or at least what has been posted about in this thread), I'd have to say that the Patriots inflated the balls to the lower threshold, indoors (in the hypothetical 70 degree room). I don't think they de-inflated the balls (I don't see how the attendant would have had the time to do so in 90 seconds); I'd say this Gay-Lussac's Law equation showed the temperature would have impacted the PSI, and I'd feel safe in assuming the moisture could have accounted for another .5 to 1 PSI reduction in the footballs.

I am left with questions still:

1-If the Patriots balls from the 2nd half were inflated in the same hypothetical 70 degree room, and stored inside during the 1st half, why didn't they experience the same loss of PSI (I know someone else posted that maybe they weren't checked right after the game-I'm assuming this is the case, but I don't KNOW this)

2-What is taking the NFL so long? I'm not a scientist, and that obviously explains why I needed someone else to explain how this Gay-Lussac's Law applied to this situation. You'd think the NFL would have someone with that knowledge readily available to say "here's your answer." The fact that this is still dragging on makes me wonder if there is something that the NFL has/knows that hasn't been leaked.

In answer to 1: 2 scenarios have been leaked. 1) They used the backup balls. 2) They reinflated the game balls to be in range.

Additionally, 2 scenarios ( actually, 2 endpoints with possibility of being anywhere between the end points ) of when the end of game measurements were taken ( immediately following the game, or some amount of time after the game ended with the balls inside reaching an equilibrium with the indoor temps ).

The combination of these two unknown data points seem capable of strongly suggesting guilt or strongly suggesting the elements.

If they used the backup balls:

A) If the end of game measurements were taken directly after the game and showed no drop in pressure, it would be counter to the 1st half balls and strong evidence outside tampering occurred.

B) If the end of game measurements occurred at a later point of time, after the balls had reach an equilibrium with the inside temperature, they would measure no drop in pressure, because the starting temp and ending temp were the same.

Conversly, if they reinflate the game balls:

A) The added air wouldn't significantly raise the temperature in the ball, so an immediate measurement should show no drop.

B) If measured later after the ball warmed to indoor temps, you would expect to see an increase in pressure.

As for 2, I have a number of theories on why its taking so long, from as simple as they're incompetent to they're still scared from the fallout of the poorly run Rice investigation and want to appear like they did a thorough job, to somebody's in the front office has a hard on for BB and the Pats.

I don't link #2 to any sort of indication of guilt or innocence here, especially with the Super Bowl coming up this week.

 

[Road Warriors]

http://physics.bu.edu/~schmaltz/deflate.html

Is there any way this can be stickied or pinned?

Surely after ten days there's a scientist out there who supports the Pats/Belichek explanation who is not based in the Boston area, yes?

Surely after ten days, there is an experiment done with balls that prove that they don't lose psi when taken from an indoors environment, into an outdoors environment with a lower temperature, yes?

I didn't ask for an experiment, I asked for support. There's plenty of people out there who have criticized the Belichick explanation (Nye, DeGrasse-Tyson, the ball manufacturers, the Columbia physicists mentioned on the previous page). I'm looking for one person outside the Boston area who disagrees with those people and supports the Belichick explanation. I'm not saying such a person does not exist- I assume they do. I just haven't heard about it.

Nye was joking. Degrasse corrected himself. The ball manufacturer was actually just some marketing guy who works for Wilson. The Colombia physicist didn't even try the experiment.

Cool. So DeGrasse said that Belichick's explanation is valid, then? That's all I'm asking for, a link to a non-Boston area scientist who validates his explanation.

Headsmart Labs is in Pittsburgh, I suspect you know that though.

I did not. Googled to find link to their take. Thanks

To summarize the science so far:

Bill Nye: Didnt seem to buy it

DeGrasse: Corrected his initial report, but in the corrected report makes it clear that the initial air would need to be more than 90 degrees. So it wasnt a win for the Pats there.

Lab video: Showed that the pressure could drop between 1.5-1.9 pounds from 75 degrees to 50 when wet (only one that really helps the Pats in any way)

Boston Globe a few days ago: Despite a few crazy quotes that can be taken out of context, a few scientists agreed with Belichick directionally, but none of them said that 2 pounds made sense. They just agreed directionally.

So you decide...but from I what I can see Patriots fans so far have very little to lean on science-wise.

But it doesnt matter because if/when the science is disproven even if there is some sort of video evidence, Pats fans will blame it on the aforementioned space aliens (I mean, you didnt actually see what happened did you? Space aliens *might* have taken the balls from the ball-boy in the bathroom....how do you know?)

So, if unsubstantiated reports that the balls were 2 lbs or more are true, the bolded would be correct. If the unsubstantiated reports that the balls were "closer to 1", all this sciency stuff does help the Pats case.

 

[Old Smiley]

i love Bill, but these are the things i keep seeing brought up with him, and i get people not liking the dude.

yup nothing against you. just sayin'

 

[Tango]

Florio has better connections to the player reps and union stuff and is generally hostile to the suits. King has better connections to the league office and is generally chummy with the NFL brass. Florio injects his opinion into his writing enough to undermine the reporting approximately 99.95% of time. King is typically pretty clear when he's reporting and when he's offering an opinion.

Both have their uses, but you'd be crazy not to consider the context and subject when reading either.

You conveniently neglected to mention that Florio hates Belichik. Hates him.

Oh the salt! You know I hear Florio likes to shower with salt water.

 

[Morton Muffley]

http://physics.bu.edu/~schmaltz/deflate.html

Is there any way this can be stickied or pinned?

Surely after ten days there's a scientist out there who supports the Pats/Belichek explanation who is not based in the Boston area, yes?

Surely after ten days, there is an experiment done with balls that prove that they don't lose psi when taken from an indoors environment, into an outdoors environment with a lower temperature, yes?

I didn't ask for an experiment, I asked for support. There's plenty of people out there who have criticized the Belichick explanation (Nye, DeGrasse-Tyson, the ball manufacturers, the Columbia physicists mentioned on the previous page). I'm looking for one person outside the Boston area who disagrees with those people and supports the Belichick explanation. I'm not saying such a person does not exist- I assume they do. I just haven't heard about it.

Nye was joking. Degrasse corrected himself. The ball manufacturer was actually just some marketing guy who works for Wilson. The Colombia physicist didn't even try the experiment.

Cool. So DeGrasse said that Belichick's explanation is valid, then? That's all I'm asking for, a link to a non-Boston area scientist who validates his explanation.

Headsmart Labs is in Pittsburgh, I suspect you know that though.

I did not. Googled to find link to their take. Thanks

To summarize the science so far:

Bill Nye: Didnt seem to buy it

DeGrasse: Corrected his initial report, but in the corrected report makes it clear that the initial air would need to be more than 90 degrees. So it wasnt a win for the Pats there.

Lab video: Showed that the pressure could drop between 1.5-1.9 pounds from 75 degrees to 50 when wet (only one that really helps the Pats in any way)

Boston Globe a few days ago: Despite a few crazy quotes that can be taken out of context, a few scientists agreed with Belichick directionally, but none of them said that 2 pounds made sense. They just agreed directionally.

So you decide...but from I what I can see Patriots fans so far have very little to lean on science-wise.

But it doesnt matter because if/when the science is disproven even if there is some sort of video evidence, Pats fans will blame it on the aforementioned space aliens (I mean, you didnt actually see what happened did you? Space aliens *might* have taken the balls from the ball-boy in the bathroom....how do you know?)

So, if unsubstantiated reports that the balls were 2 lbs or more are true, the bolded would be correct. If the unsubstantiated reports that the balls were "closer to 1", all this sciency stuff does help the Pats case.

No no no

Wrong wrong wrong

1psi is attributable to weather

Another psi belichick attributes to the ball prep process - if this additional psi is needed (see mort vs. florio) and nfl cannot duplicate the process that raises the ball one psi then there is simply no need for a zapruder-like film of a bellboy deflating the balls. It's as simple as that

 

[Caveman_Nick]

There is always someone with an axe to grind...

 

[mbuehner]

I do think there's a very real chance the ball the Colts intercepted that was an extra 1psi under lost that air from the Colts gauging it on their sideline.

Its too bad the Patriots don't have a camera that could prove it huh?

 

[mbuehner]

I have discovered the video equivalent of this thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vupgBykQnko

 

[Flying Elvis]

I do think there's a very real chance the ball the Colts intercepted that was an extra 1psi under lost that air from the Colts gauging it on their sideline.

Its too bad the Patriots don't have a camera that could prove it huh?

They probably did, but the enclosure it was in obscured the view.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

There is always someone with an axe to grind...

Interesting.....

So as the clouds part over Foxboro and it becomes obvious Deflategate was just a witch hunt conducted by sore losers one name has come to the forefront. The ringleader if you will. His name Mike Kensil. Who is that you ask? Well that’s exactly the same question I asked when I first heard his name mentioned to me 2 days ago from a source close to the Pats. They said look this guy up. Well it turns out he is the former President of the Jets. He was there when Belichick turned in his resignation to come to the Pats. He was there during Spygate. His friends will tell you that he obsesses over his hatred of the Patriots. That he swore 1 day he’s get back at Belichick for leaving him the lurch and sending the Jets into a downward spiral of ineptitude and ruining his career.

Yes it is this Mike Kensil who is now Dir. of Football Operations at National Football League who was prowling the Colts sidelines last week. Yes it is this Mike Kensil, the former Jet with a longstanding grudge against the Patriots who was proactively looking for deflated footballs last week. It is the same Mike Kensil who whispered to Bob Kravitz in a dark tunnel of Gillette about deflated footballs. I’ve even heard rumors that he and the Colts equipment manager conspired to actually deflate the one football that came in at 10.5 PSI. The rest were closer to 11.5 PSI. It is this Mike Kensil who called Chris Mortensen to leak the story about Deflategate.

This of course explains why the league never said anything to the Patriots beforehand about deflated footballs. Why the Colts would risk playing the first half at a disadvantage. Because this was never about fair play. This was never about the integrity of the game. This was simply about revenge plain and simple. It was Mike Kensil trying to set a trap and embarrass the Patriots. Unfortunately what Mike Kensil and the rest of the world found out the hard way is that you don’t trap Bill Belichick, Bill Belhick traps you. Now the NFL is sitting with their **** in their hands. Belichick has all the answers and NFL looks like incompetent buffoons once again. And once again the NFL is going to have to take a hard look in the mirror and investigate itself over wrong doing. All because Mike Kensil had a grudge. For shame. For shame.

 

[Arne]

Wow! This is such a great topic! I've learned so much about laws about gas, and about balls!

 

[Old Smiley]

I do think there's a very real chance the ball the Colts intercepted that was an extra 1psi under lost that air from the Colts gauging it on their sideline.

Its too bad the Patriots don't have a camera that could prove it huh?

They probably did, but the enclosure it was in obscured the view.

Anything with Kensil on the sideline would be good for a laugh.

 

[ROCKET]

Lets forget about guilt or innocence for a minute. I have one glaring question aside from all of that.

I would say at this point it is a fair assumption that the NFL set up a sting operation for the AFCG against the Pats after being tipped off about ball psi issues.

A lot of people have said back in the day a commish like Tagliabue would have called the Pats and said knock it off, we are watching etc.

So am I to believe that this will be the leagues policy going forward?

If that were the case I would think we will see another sting operation in the not too distant future as it's very common for teams to question other teams on different aspects of pushing the rules.

What kind of precedent has this set and do you see it continuing?

 

[12punch]

Florio has better connections to the player reps and union stuff and is generally hostile to the suits. King has better connections to the league office and is generally chummy with the NFL brass. Florio injects his opinion into his writing enough to undermine the reporting approximately 99.95% of time. King is typically pretty clear when he's reporting and when he's offering an opinion.

Both have their uses, but you'd be crazy not to consider the context and subject when reading either.

You conveniently neglected to mention that Florio hates Belichik. Hates him.

I havent been counting, but from casually lurking in this thread it seems like there are at least 40 people who have been called out for hating/despising/deploring the very existence of Bellichick, which has for some reason also implied that their opinions are not valid. A question:Why do so many people (including the NFL as an organization apparently) hate the guy? It cant be just because he wins a lot. I dont recall any such vitriol for Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs, or Don Shula, and they won a lot too. So what is it about him that so many people seem to despise so much? He is certainly smug, and lacking in personality - but thats not unusual for head coaches in the NFL and neither are traits that should lead so many to such strong feelings of hatred. What is it with this guy? Is it that they question his integrity?

imagine that you need to write an attention grabbing headline piece about the patriots chiefs game. First you go interview Reid, and he tells you what a great opponent the patriots are, but that our guys really bought into the gameplan, and Alex smith really did a great job playing within himself, and blah blah blah. You get a couple paragraphs of cliche ridden coach speak, wrap it up with some stats, and the article writes itself.then you go to belichicks post game presser, and he answers every question with "we're on to Cincinnati". that's actually a noteworthy quote from this season, too.

Then you go to each coach during the week to ask what's going on with the team, and some of the coaches tell you who's hurt and how long they're expected to be out. Then belichick tells them that brady is questionable with a shoulder and solder has a leg. That just makes your job harder again.

After a while, the teams that are winning nonstop for years are the ones people want to hear most about. but the coach not only doesn't say anything, he's also instructed his players not to say anything. Have you ever heard Tom Brady talk about the Jaguars? They're a really good team that's had a little bad luck really on but they have a ton of talent on that roster and we really need to play our best game this week. Try working with that for the roughly 250 games those two have been qb/coach together and tell me how fun it would be to have to find another way of writing 1000 words on this team.

as a fan, I like it. I'm sure the team likes not having the distractions. But whenever something like this comes out, and the media actually had something n new and interesting to write about this team, how could they not?

exactly, then combine that with beating a lot of teams badly while being a forward thinker for weird formations, going for it on 4th down, no huddle, etc.. while people talk about how much smarter than other coaches he is. This is a league of competitive alpha males, and can understand players/other coaches not liking him too.

Seriously? Bill Walsh was an innovator too, and I dont remember anyone ever saying one negative word about the man.

wat

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/25/bill-parcells-still-thinks-bill-walsh-cheated-during-1980s-playoffs/

looooooooooooool

 

[General Tso]

It's all a bunch of bull####.

Spygate, inflategate.

All bull####.

I hate the Pat's with a passion......a real passion (being a Dolphins fan) but even I am now going to root for them because:

1. I can't stand that punk outfit called the Seattle Seahawks...screw them and their fans (although I love Wilson as a QB total class act and heck of a player)

2. All this talk going on two weeks about some deflated balls is such a bunch of nonsense I want to see the Pat's stick it to the NFL and the media and I would like to see Brady get his 4th ring and go down with Montana and Bradshaw as accomplishing this feat. Brady is one of the all-time greats. He is going to prove it again this Sunday.

Go Patriots....and screw the NFL. It's changed for the absolute worse. Where as College Football keeps getting better and better.

The NFL is a joke now.

Wow. Words of wisdom coming from Todem. Appreciate the sentiment and you taking the time to post that. It's good to hear that some people out there see this scandal for what it is - a ridiculous witch hunt.

 

[Road Warriors]

Florio has better connections to the player reps and union stuff and is generally hostile to the suits. King has better connections to the league office and is generally chummy with the NFL brass. Florio injects his opinion into his writing enough to undermine the reporting approximately 99.95% of time. King is typically pretty clear when he's reporting and when he's offering an opinion.

Both have their uses, but you'd be crazy not to consider the context and subject when reading either.

You conveniently neglected to mention that Florio hates Belichik. Hates him.

I havent been counting, but from casually lurking in this thread it seems like there are at least 40 people who have been called out for hating/despising/deploring the very existence of Bellichick, which has for some reason also implied that their opinions are not valid. A question:Why do so many people (including the NFL as an organization apparently) hate the guy? It cant be just because he wins a lot. I dont recall any such vitriol for Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs, or Don Shula, and they won a lot too. So what is it about him that so many people seem to despise so much? He is certainly smug, and lacking in personality - but thats not unusual for head coaches in the NFL and neither are traits that should lead so many to such strong feelings of hatred. What is it with this guy? Is it that they question his integrity?

imagine that you need to write an attention grabbing headline piece about the patriots chiefs game. First you go interview Reid, and he tells you what a great opponent the patriots are, but that our guys really bought into the gameplan, and Alex smith really did a great job playing within himself, and blah blah blah. You get a couple paragraphs of cliche ridden coach speak, wrap it up with some stats, and the article writes itself.then you go to belichicks post game presser, and he answers every question with "we're on to Cincinnati". that's actually a noteworthy quote from this season, too.

Then you go to each coach during the week to ask what's going on with the team, and some of the coaches tell you who's hurt and how long they're expected to be out. Then belichick tells them that brady is questionable with a shoulder and solder has a leg. That just makes your job harder again.

After a while, the teams that are winning nonstop for years are the ones people want to hear most about. but the coach not only doesn't say anything, he's also instructed his players not to say anything. Have you ever heard Tom Brady talk about the Jaguars? They're a really good team that's had a little bad luck really on but they have a ton of talent on that roster and we really need to play our best game this week. Try working with that for the roughly 250 games those two have been qb/coach together and tell me how fun it would be to have to find another way of writing 1000 words on this team.

as a fan, I like it. I'm sure the team likes not having the distractions. But whenever something like this comes out, and the media actually had something n new and interesting to write about this team, how could they not?

exactly, then combine that with beating a lot of teams badly while being a forward thinker for weird formations, going for it on 4th down, no huddle, etc.. while people talk about how much smarter than other coaches he is. This is a league of competitive alpha males, and can understand players/other coaches not liking him too.

Seriously? Bill Walsh was an innovator too, and I dont remember anyone ever saying one negative word about the man.

wat

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/25/bill-parcells-still-thinks-bill-walsh-cheated-during-1980s-playoffs/

looooooooooooool

In the internet age, this sort of thing would take on a life of its own ( as deflategate has ). In the 80s, there were no blogs, Sports reporters considered themselves reporters first, and none of this hits the mainstream.

 

[Flying Elvis]

Lets forget about guilt or innocence for a minute. I have one glaring question aside from all of that.

I would say at this point it is a fair assumption that the NFL set up a sting operation for the AFCG against the Pats after being tipped off about ball psi issues.

A lot of people have said back in the day a commish like Tagliabue would have called the Pats and said knock it off, we are watching etc.

So am I to believe that this will be the leagues policy going forward?

If that were the case I would think we will see another sting operation in the not too distant future as it's very common for teams to question other teams on different aspects of pushing the rules.

What kind of precedent has this set and do you see it continuing?

This idea is the crux of my belief that Goodell will be done as Commissioner. I can't imagine the other 31 owners can look at this and think it's an acceptable tactic (assuming it was a pre-planned sting, vs. a response to in game accusations from the first half) going forward. If it was a sting, I think the owners collectively set the precedent that it's unacceptable, and they do so by forcing Rog to resign.

 

[mbuehner]

Lets forget about guilt or innocence for a minute. I have one glaring question aside from all of that.

I would say at this point it is a fair assumption that the NFL set up a sting operation for the AFCG against the Pats after being tipped off about ball psi issues.

A lot of people have said back in the day a commish like Tagliabue would have called the Pats and said knock it off, we are watching etc.

So am I to believe that this will be the leagues policy going forward?

If that were the case I would think we will see another sting operation in the not too distant future as it's very common for teams to question other teams on different aspects of pushing the rules.

What kind of precedent has this set and do you see it continuing?

This idea is the crux of my belief that Goodell will be done as Commissioner. I can't imagine the other 31 owners can look at this and think it's an acceptable tactic (assuming it was a pre-planned sting, vs. a response to in game accusations from the first half) going forward. If it was a sting, I think the owners collectively set the precedent that it's unacceptable, and they do so by forcing Rog to resign.

The sources say it wasnt a sting operation- or at least the refs weren't in on it. Which is why the NFL is scrambling now and cant produce the obvious evidence it should have had if it was a sting. If it was a sting it would be open and shut and they certainly wouldnt have played half an AFC Championship game with illegal balls.

 

[ROCKET]

Lets forget about guilt or innocence for a minute. I have one glaring question aside from all of that.

I would say at this point it is a fair assumption that the NFL set up a sting operation for the AFCG against the Pats after being tipped off about ball psi issues.

A lot of people have said back in the day a commish like Tagliabue would have called the Pats and said knock it off, we are watching etc.

So am I to believe that this will be the leagues policy going forward?

If that were the case I would think we will see another sting operation in the not too distant future as it's very common for teams to question other teams on different aspects of pushing the rules.

What kind of precedent has this set and do you see it continuing?

This idea is the crux of my belief that Goodell will be done as Commissioner. I can't imagine the other 31 owners can look at this and think it's an acceptable tactic (assuming it was a pre-planned sting, vs. a response to in game accusations from the first half) going forward. If it was a sting, I think the owners collectively set the precedent that it's unacceptable, and they do so by forcing Rog to resign.

The sources say it wasnt a sting operation- or at least the refs weren't in on it. Which is why the NFL is scrambling now and cant produce the obvious evidence it should have had if it was a sting. If it was a sting it would be open and shut and they certainly wouldnt have played half an AFC Championship game with illegal balls.

I'm not sure of anything at this point. Maybe the refs were not part of it but it looks pretty premeditated by the league going in. This wasn't all put together after kickoff.

 

[General Tso]

Florio has better connections to the player reps and union stuff and is generally hostile to the suits. King has better connections to the league office and is generally chummy with the NFL brass. Florio injects his opinion into his writing enough to undermine the reporting approximately 99.95% of time. King is typically pretty clear when he's reporting and when he's offering an opinion.

Both have their uses, but you'd be crazy not to consider the context and subject when reading either.

You conveniently neglected to mention that Florio hates Belichik. Hates him.

I havent been counting, but from casually lurking in this thread it seems like there are at least 40 people who have been called out for hating/despising/deploring the very existence of Bellichick, which has for some reason also implied that their opinions are not valid. A question:Why do so many people (including the NFL as an organization apparently) hate the guy? It cant be just because he wins a lot. I dont recall any such vitriol for Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs, or Don Shula, and they won a lot too. So what is it about him that so many people seem to despise so much? He is certainly smug, and lacking in personality - but thats not unusual for head coaches in the NFL and neither are traits that should lead so many to such strong feelings of hatred. What is it with this guy? Is it that they question his integrity?

imagine that you need to write an attention grabbing headline piece about the patriots chiefs game. First you go interview Reid, and he tells you what a great opponent the patriots are, but that our guys really bought into the gameplan, and Alex smith really did a great job playing within himself, and blah blah blah. You get a couple paragraphs of cliche ridden coach speak, wrap it up with some stats, and the article writes itself.then you go to belichicks post game presser, and he answers every question with "we're on to Cincinnati". that's actually a noteworthy quote from this season, too.

Then you go to each coach during the week to ask what's going on with the team, and some of the coaches tell you who's hurt and how long they're expected to be out. Then belichick tells them that brady is questionable with a shoulder and solder has a leg. That just makes your job harder again.

After a while, the teams that are winning nonstop for years are the ones people want to hear most about. but the coach not only doesn't say anything, he's also instructed his players not to say anything. Have you ever heard Tom Brady talk about the Jaguars? They're a really good team that's had a little bad luck really on but they have a ton of talent on that roster and we really need to play our best game this week. Try working with that for the roughly 250 games those two have been qb/coach together and tell me how fun it would be to have to find another way of writing 1000 words on this team.

as a fan, I like it. I'm sure the team likes not having the distractions. But whenever something like this comes out, and the media actually had something n new and interesting to write about this team, how could they not?

exactly, then combine that with beating a lot of teams badly while being a forward thinker for weird formations, going for it on 4th down, no huddle, etc.. while people talk about how much smarter than other coaches he is. This is a league of competitive alpha males, and can understand players/other coaches not liking him too.

Seriously? Bill Walsh was an innovator too, and I dont remember anyone ever saying one negative word about the man.

wat

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/25/bill-parcells-still-thinks-bill-walsh-cheated-during-1980s-playoffs/

looooooooooooool

In the internet age, this sort of thing would take on a life of its own ( as deflategate has ). In the 80s, there were no blogs, Sports reporters considered themselves reporters first, and none of this hits the mainstream.

I quoted this story earlier in this thread. The best part of the story is that Parcells confronted Walsh about it after the game at midfield and said, "if you ever pull that crap again I'm going to call you out on it," to which Walsh replied, "Just a little gamesmanship Bill".Back in the day this kind of stuff was called gamesmanship. It was handled between the Coaches like men. No snitching, no calls of "cheating" by the teams or fans, no sting operations, no witch hunts, no "trial by leaks", no attempts to nullify Hall of Fame careers...

 

[mbuehner]

Lets forget about guilt or innocence for a minute. I have one glaring question aside from all of that.

I would say at this point it is a fair assumption that the NFL set up a sting operation for the AFCG against the Pats after being tipped off about ball psi issues.

A lot of people have said back in the day a commish like Tagliabue would have called the Pats and said knock it off, we are watching etc.

So am I to believe that this will be the leagues policy going forward?

If that were the case I would think we will see another sting operation in the not too distant future as it's very common for teams to question other teams on different aspects of pushing the rules.

What kind of precedent has this set and do you see it continuing?

This idea is the crux of my belief that Goodell will be done as Commissioner. I can't imagine the other 31 owners can look at this and think it's an acceptable tactic (assuming it was a pre-planned sting, vs. a response to in game accusations from the first half) going forward. If it was a sting, I think the owners collectively set the precedent that it's unacceptable, and they do so by forcing Rog to resign.

The sources say it wasnt a sting operation- or at least the refs weren't in on it. Which is why the NFL is scrambling now and cant produce the obvious evidence it should have had if it was a sting. If it was a sting it would be open and shut and they certainly wouldnt have played half an AFC Championship game with illegal balls.

I'm not sure of anything at this point. Maybe the refs were not part of it but it looks pretty premeditated by the league going in. This wasn't all put together after kickoff.

No the Colts were demonstrably going to make a stink about the balls, there's no question about that. Whether Kensil had anything to do with this at all is an open question. I dont suppose its odd for him to be on the sidelines during playoff games, but who knows.

It could well have been an opportunity thing, this is what makes sense to me-

-Colts, being butthurt about their regular season loss and hearing the Ravens ##### about the balls decide they are going to challenge them

-They finally get ahold of a Pats ball near halftime, they convene a braintrust around the ball to decide its under pressured (they were always going to decide it was under pressure).

- Kensil is either called over, or he had an idea that this was going to come up. Maybe he gives his two cents, maybe they measure the ball, maybe Kensil weighs in on the Colts behalf and nudges the refs into checking the balls.

-Refs check, balls swapped, game ends.

-Colts leak the report that the balls were found underpressured.

That could easily have been the case without any preplanned sting. It certainly seems like the Colts were driving this thing.

 

[General Tso]

Lets forget about guilt or innocence for a minute. I have one glaring question aside from all of that.

I would say at this point it is a fair assumption that the NFL set up a sting operation for the AFCG against the Pats after being tipped off about ball psi issues.

A lot of people have said back in the day a commish like Tagliabue would have called the Pats and said knock it off, we are watching etc.

So am I to believe that this will be the leagues policy going forward?

If that were the case I would think we will see another sting operation in the not too distant future as it's very common for teams to question other teams on different aspects of pushing the rules.

What kind of precedent has this set and do you see it continuing?

This idea is the crux of my belief that Goodell will be done as Commissioner. I can't imagine the other 31 owners can look at this and think it's an acceptable tactic (assuming it was a pre-planned sting, vs. a response to in game accusations from the first half) going forward. If it was a sting, I think the owners collectively set the precedent that it's unacceptable, and they do so by forcing Rog to resign.

I am confident that history will judge Roger Goodell very harshly. I know all about the NFL's increase in popularity and revenues, but very little of that can be attributed to Goodell or his policies. The NFL has succeeded in spite of Goodell, not because of him. He has been a horrible Commissioner and in my opinion is unfit for the job. His main motivation is asserting his authority and protecting his own self interest. I will literally celebrate the day this guy is canned.

 

[parrot]

Lets forget about guilt or innocence for a minute. I have one glaring question aside from all of that.

I would say at this point it is a fair assumption that the NFL set up a sting operation for the AFCG against the Pats after being tipped off about ball psi issues.

A lot of people have said back in the day a commish like Tagliabue would have called the Pats and said knock it off, we are watching etc.

So am I to believe that this will be the leagues policy going forward?

If that were the case I would think we will see another sting operation in the not too distant future as it's very common for teams to question other teams on different aspects of pushing the rules.

What kind of precedent has this set and do you see it continuing?

This idea is the crux of my belief that Goodell will be done as Commissioner. I can't imagine the other 31 owners can look at this and think it's an acceptable tactic (assuming it was a pre-planned sting, vs. a response to in game accusations from the first half) going forward. If it was a sting, I think the owners collectively set the precedent that it's unacceptable, and they do so by forcing Rog to resign.

The sources say it wasnt a sting operation- or at least the refs weren't in on it. Which is why the NFL is scrambling now and cant produce the obvious evidence it should have had if it was a sting. If it was a sting it would be open and shut and they certainly wouldnt have played half an AFC Championship game with illegal balls.

Also, if this was a sting, with Goodell in the know, and he didn't find a way to sidestep this trainwreck, he really is the most incompetent commissioner of anything ever.

 

[General Tso]

Lets forget about guilt or innocence for a minute. I have one glaring question aside from all of that.

I would say at this point it is a fair assumption that the NFL set up a sting operation for the AFCG against the Pats after being tipped off about ball psi issues.

A lot of people have said back in the day a commish like Tagliabue would have called the Pats and said knock it off, we are watching etc.

So am I to believe that this will be the leagues policy going forward?

If that were the case I would think we will see another sting operation in the not too distant future as it's very common for teams to question other teams on different aspects of pushing the rules.

What kind of precedent has this set and do you see it continuing?

This idea is the crux of my belief that Goodell will be done as Commissioner. I can't imagine the other 31 owners can look at this and think it's an acceptable tactic (assuming it was a pre-planned sting, vs. a response to in game accusations from the first half) going forward. If it was a sting, I think the owners collectively set the precedent that it's unacceptable, and they do so by forcing Rog to resign.

The sources say it wasnt a sting operation- or at least the refs weren't in on it. Which is why the NFL is scrambling now and cant produce the obvious evidence it should have had if it was a sting. If it was a sting it would be open and shut and they certainly wouldnt have played half an AFC Championship game with illegal balls.

I'm not sure of anything at this point. Maybe the refs were not part of it but it looks pretty premeditated by the league going in. This wasn't all put together after kickoff.

No the Colts were demonstrably going to make a stink about the balls, there's no question about that. Whether Kensil had anything to do with this at all is an open question. I dont suppose its odd for him to be on the sidelines during playoff games, but who knows.

It could well have been an opportunity thing, this is what makes sense to me-

-Colts, being butthurt about their regular season loss and hearing the Ravens ##### about the balls decide they are going to challenge them

-They finally get ahold of a Pats ball near halftime, they convene a braintrust around the ball to decide its under pressured (they were always going to decide it was under pressure).

- Kensil is either called over, or he had an idea that this was going to come up. Maybe he gives his two cents, maybe they measure the ball, maybe Kensil weighs in on the Colts behalf and nudges the refs into checking the balls.

-Refs check, balls swapped, game ends.

-Colts leak the report that the balls were found underpressured.

That could easily have been the case without any preplanned sting. It certainly seems like the Colts were driving this thing.

I either read it or heard it on the radio, but someone reported that the Colts submitted a concern about deflated balls in a document that each team sends to the Officials prior to each game.

 

[ROCKET]

Lets forget about guilt or innocence for a minute. I have one glaring question aside from all of that.

I would say at this point it is a fair assumption that the NFL set up a sting operation for the AFCG against the Pats after being tipped off about ball psi issues.

A lot of people have said back in the day a commish like Tagliabue would have called the Pats and said knock it off, we are watching etc.

So am I to believe that this will be the leagues policy going forward?

If that were the case I would think we will see another sting operation in the not too distant future as it's very common for teams to question other teams on different aspects of pushing the rules.

What kind of precedent has this set and do you see it continuing?

This idea is the crux of my belief that Goodell will be done as Commissioner. I can't imagine the other 31 owners can look at this and think it's an acceptable tactic (assuming it was a pre-planned sting, vs. a response to in game accusations from the first half) going forward. If it was a sting, I think the owners collectively set the precedent that it's unacceptable, and they do so by forcing Rog to resign.

The sources say it wasnt a sting operation- or at least the refs weren't in on it. Which is why the NFL is scrambling now and cant produce the obvious evidence it should have had if it was a sting. If it was a sting it would be open and shut and they certainly wouldnt have played half an AFC Championship game with illegal balls.

I'm not sure of anything at this point. Maybe the refs were not part of it but it looks pretty premeditated by the league going in. This wasn't all put together after kickoff.

No the Colts were demonstrably going to make a stink about the balls, there's no question about that. Whether Kensil had anything to do with this at all is an open question. I dont suppose its odd for him to be on the sidelines during playoff games, but who knows.

It could well have been an opportunity thing, this is what makes sense to me-

-Colts, being butthurt about their regular season loss and hearing the Ravens ##### about the balls decide they are going to challenge them

-They finally get ahold of a Pats ball near halftime, they convene a braintrust around the ball to decide its under pressured (they were always going to decide it was under pressure).

- Kensil is either called over, or he had an idea that this was going to come up. Maybe he gives his two cents, maybe they measure the ball, maybe Kensil weighs in on the Colts behalf and nudges the refs into checking the balls.

-Refs check, balls swapped, game ends.

-Colts leak the report that the balls were found underpressured.

That could easily have been the case without any preplanned sting. It certainly seems like the Colts were driving this thing.

You could be right. All I know is this opens up the league for a lot of tattling and accusations from disgruntled teams . I think there was an unwritten rule between teams for ratting on trivial things (like psi) for years but I could see that changing going forward.

This may only be the beginning. I hope not as I'm sure teams could find something to question on a fairly regular basis if they wanted to.

 

[Morton Muffley]

Lets forget about guilt or innocence for a minute. I have one glaring question aside from all of that.

I would say at this point it is a fair assumption that the NFL set up a sting operation for the AFCG against the Pats after being tipped off about ball psi issues.

A lot of people have said back in the day a commish like Tagliabue would have called the Pats and said knock it off, we are watching etc.

So am I to believe that this will be the leagues policy going forward?

If that were the case I would think we will see another sting operation in the not too distant future as it's very common for teams to question other teams on different aspects of pushing the rules.

What kind of precedent has this set and do you see it continuing?

This idea is the crux of my belief that Goodell will be done as Commissioner. I can't imagine the other 31 owners can look at this and think it's an acceptable tactic (assuming it was a pre-planned sting, vs. a response to in game accusations from the first half) going forward. If it was a sting, I think the owners collectively set the precedent that it's unacceptable, and they do so by forcing Rog to resign.

The sources say it wasnt a sting operation- or at least the refs weren't in on it. Which is why the NFL is scrambling now and cant produce the obvious evidence it should have had if it was a sting. If it was a sting it would be open and shut and they certainly wouldnt have played half an AFC Championship game with illegal balls.

I'm not sure of anything at this point. Maybe the refs were not part of it but it looks pretty premeditated by the league going in. This wasn't all put together after kickoff.

No the Colts were demonstrably going to make a stink about the balls, there's no question about that. Whether Kensil had anything to do with this at all is an open question. I dont suppose its odd for him to be on the sidelines during playoff games, but who knows.

It could well have been an opportunity thing, this is what makes sense to me-

-Colts, being butthurt about their regular season loss and hearing the Ravens ##### about the balls decide they are going to challenge them

-They finally get ahold of a Pats ball near halftime, they convene a braintrust around the ball to decide its under pressured (they were always going to decide it was under pressure).

- Kensil is either called over, or he had an idea that this was going to come up. Maybe he gives his two cents, maybe they measure the ball, maybe Kensil weighs in on the Colts behalf and nudges the refs into checking the balls.

-Refs check, balls swapped, game ends.

-Colts leak the report that the balls were found underpressured.

That could easily have been the case without any preplanned sting. It certainly seems like the Colts were driving this thing.

I agree with this. The nfl has proven themselves grossly incompetent in many previous instances, but I don't think they are this incompetent. If they wanted to run a sting opp that don't need to wait for the colts to intercept a pass...they could just grab any ball from the bag at any time. Refs no not needed for this as it could have benn done with the game in flight

 

[12punch]

Florio has better connections to the player reps and union stuff and is generally hostile to the suits. King has better connections to the league office and is generally chummy with the NFL brass. Florio injects his opinion into his writing enough to undermine the reporting approximately 99.95% of time. King is typically pretty clear when he's reporting and when he's offering an opinion.

Both have their uses, but you'd be crazy not to consider the context and subject when reading either.

You conveniently neglected to mention that Florio hates Belichik. Hates him.

I havent been counting, but from casually lurking in this thread it seems like there are at least 40 people who have been called out for hating/despising/deploring the very existence of Bellichick, which has for some reason also implied that their opinions are not valid. A question:Why do so many people (including the NFL as an organization apparently) hate the guy? It cant be just because he wins a lot. I dont recall any such vitriol for Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs, or Don Shula, and they won a lot too. So what is it about him that so many people seem to despise so much? He is certainly smug, and lacking in personality - but thats not unusual for head coaches in the NFL and neither are traits that should lead so many to such strong feelings of hatred. What is it with this guy? Is it that they question his integrity?

The Internet Gives Frustfated Whiny Tools And Insecure Attention Whores A Platform TheY Never Had Back In The day

 

[General Tso]

Remember what I said earlier about throwing stones??? Here's an old 1986 newspaper clipping where Phil Jackson admits that Workd Champ NY Knicks team in the 70's deflated basketballs:

https://mobile.twitter.com/toddradom/status/560485232038928384

 

[JIslander]

Remember what I said earlier about throwing stones??? Here's an old 1986 newspaper clipping where Phil Jackson admits that Workd Champ NY Knicks team in the 70's deflated basketballs:

https://mobile.twitter.com/toddradom/status/560485232038928384

Throwing stones? At least Phil admits it ...maybe BB will finally come clean in his 2025 biography.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Lets forget about guilt or innocence for a minute. I have one glaring question aside from all of that.

I would say at this point it is a fair assumption that the NFL set up a sting operation for the AFCG against the Pats after being tipped off about ball psi issues.

A lot of people have said back in the day a commish like Tagliabue would have called the Pats and said knock it off, we are watching etc.

So am I to believe that this will be the leagues policy going forward?

If that were the case I would think we will see another sting operation in the not too distant future as it's very common for teams to question other teams on different aspects of pushing the rules.

What kind of precedent has this set and do you see it continuing?

This idea is the crux of my belief that Goodell will be done as Commissioner. I can't imagine the other 31 owners can look at this and think it's an acceptable tactic (assuming it was a pre-planned sting, vs. a response to in game accusations from the first half) going forward. If it was a sting, I think the owners collectively set the precedent that it's unacceptable, and they do so by forcing Rog to resign.

The sources say it wasnt a sting operation- or at least the refs weren't in on it. Which is why the NFL is scrambling now and cant produce the obvious evidence it should have had if it was a sting. If it was a sting it would be open and shut and they certainly wouldnt have played half an AFC Championship game with illegal balls.

I'm not sure of anything at this point. Maybe the refs were not part of it but it looks pretty premeditated by the league going in. This wasn't all put together after kickoff.

No the Colts were demonstrably going to make a stink about the balls, there's no question about that. Whether Kensil had anything to do with this at all is an open question. I dont suppose its odd for him to be on the sidelines during playoff games, but who knows.

It could well have been an opportunity thing, this is what makes sense to me-

-Colts, being butthurt about their regular season loss and hearing the Ravens ##### about the balls decide they are going to challenge them

-They finally get ahold of a Pats ball near halftime, they convene a braintrust around the ball to decide its under pressured (they were always going to decide it was under pressure).

- Kensil is either called over, or he had an idea that this was going to come up. Maybe he gives his two cents, maybe they measure the ball, maybe Kensil weighs in on the Colts behalf and nudges the refs into checking the balls.

-Refs check, balls swapped, game ends.

-Colts leak the report that the balls were found underpressured.

That could easily have been the case without any preplanned sting. It certainly seems like the Colts were driving this thing.

I either read it or heard it on the radio, but someone reported that the Colts submitted a concern about deflated balls in a document that each team sends to the Officials prior to each game.

Tim Hasselbeck said this on WEEI. He sounded very well informed about it. Basically what he said was:

- In the regular season game, someone intercepted Brady (I think Mike Adams). Mike Adams was like hey, I intercepted the great Tom Brady, I'd like to keep the ball. He gives it to the equipment manager.

- The equipment manager, his profession being to manage equipment, notices that the ball feels a little deflated. Doesn't think anything of it.

- Mike Adams picks off Brady again, and again, says hey, I'd like to keep this ball, and gives it to the equipment manager.

- The manager notices that this ball is deflated too, meaning that ball #1 was not an isolated instance.

- The Colts report their concerns to the league somehow after the game.

- Before each and every single game, an official has a teleconference with members from the two teams playing. They bring up things that they're going to be on the lookout for. Whatever is being highlighted that week for whatever reason. Like before each Ravens/Steelers game they probably talk about personal fouls or late hits, etc. Stuff like that. Before the AFC Championship game, the officials bring up the deflated ball thing from earlier in the year. Like hey Patriots, we're going to be on the watch for this because the Colts reported it as an issue last time.

- Then, D'Qwell Jackson picks off Tom Brady. D'Qwell Jackson's like OMG Brady's amazing, I can't believe I intercepted a pass from him, I'm going to give this to my grandkids. He gives the ball to the equipment manager to keep. The equipment manager's like WTF this ball is deflated too! He reports it to the league officials (game day operations guy or something), which prompts the balls being tested at half-time.

The rest is history.

 

[Old Smiley]

Lets forget about guilt or innocence for a minute. I have one glaring question aside from all of that.

I would say at this point it is a fair assumption that the NFL set up a sting operation for the AFCG against the Pats after being tipped off about ball psi issues.

A lot of people have said back in the day a commish like Tagliabue would have called the Pats and said knock it off, we are watching etc.

So am I to believe that this will be the leagues policy going forward?

If that were the case I would think we will see another sting operation in the not too distant future as it's very common for teams to question other teams on different aspects of pushing the rules.

What kind of precedent has this set and do you see it continuing?

This idea is the crux of my belief that Goodell will be done as Commissioner. I can't imagine the other 31 owners can look at this and think it's an acceptable tactic (assuming it was a pre-planned sting, vs. a response to in game accusations from the first half) going forward. If it was a sting, I think the owners collectively set the precedent that it's unacceptable, and they do so by forcing Rog to resign.

I am confident that history will judge Roger Goodell very harshly. I know all about the NFL's increase in popularity and revenues, but very little of that can be attributed to Goodell or his policies. The NFL has succeeded in spite of Goodell, not because of him. He has been a horrible Commissioner and in my opinion is unfit for the job. His main motivation is asserting his authority and protecting his own self interest. I will literally celebrate the day this guy is canned.

Probably time for another lawyer.

I guess the only thing is that I'm pretty sure the owners appreciate how tough (I say thuggish) Goodell's been in labor talks.

There are so many things I hate about Goodell, but I really really hate the owners, too. It was a marriage made... well somewhere.

 

[12punch]

Lets forget about guilt or innocence for a minute. I have one glaring question aside from all of that.

I would say at this point it is a fair assumption that the NFL set up a sting operation for the AFCG against the Pats after being tipped off about ball psi issues.

A lot of people have said back in the day a commish like Tagliabue would have called the Pats and said knock it off, we are watching etc.

So am I to believe that this will be the leagues policy going forward?

If that were the case I would think we will see another sting operation in the not too distant future as it's very common for teams to question other teams on different aspects of pushing the rules.

What kind of precedent has this set and do you see it continuing?

This idea is the crux of my belief that Goodell will be done as Commissioner. I can't imagine the other 31 owners can look at this and think it's an acceptable tactic (assuming it was a pre-planned sting, vs. a response to in game accusations from the first half) going forward. If it was a sting, I think the owners collectively set the precedent that it's unacceptable, and they do so by forcing Rog to resign.

The sources say it wasnt a sting operation- or at least the refs weren't in on it. Which is why the NFL is scrambling now and cant produce the obvious evidence it should have had if it was a sting. If it was a sting it would be open and shut and they certainly wouldnt have played half an AFC Championship game with illegal balls.

I'm not sure of anything at this point. Maybe the refs were not part of it but it looks pretty premeditated by the league going in. This wasn't all put together after kickoff.

No the Colts were demonstrably going to make a stink about the balls, there's no question about that. Whether Kensil had anything to do with this at all is an open question. I dont suppose its odd for him to be on the sidelines during playoff games, but who knows.

It could well have been an opportunity thing, this is what makes sense to me-

-Colts, being butthurt about their regular season loss and hearing the Ravens ##### about the balls decide they are going to challenge them

-They finally get ahold of a Pats ball near halftime, they convene a braintrust around the ball to decide its under pressured (they were always going to decide it was under pressure).

- Kensil is either called over, or he had an idea that this was going to come up. Maybe he gives his two cents, maybe they measure the ball, maybe Kensil weighs in on the Colts behalf and nudges the refs into checking the balls.

-Refs check, balls swapped, game ends.

-Colts leak the report that the balls were found underpressured.

That could easily have been the case without any preplanned sting. It certainly seems like the Colts were driving this thing.

I either read it or heard it on the radio, but someone reported that the Colts submitted a concern about deflated balls in a document that each team sends to the Officials prior to each game.

Tim Hasselbeck said this on WEEI. He sounded very well informed about it. Basically what he said was:

- In the regular season game, someone intercepted Brady (I think Mike Adams). Mike Adams was like hey, I intercepted the great Tom Brady, I'd like to keep the ball. He gives it to the equipment manager.

- The equipment manager, his profession being to manage equipment, notices that the ball feels a little deflated. Doesn't think anything of it.

- Mike Adams picks off Brady again, and again, says hey, I'd like to keep this ball, and gives it to the equipment manager.

- The manager notices that this ball is deflated too, meaning that ball #1 was not an isolated instance.

- The Colts report their concerns to the league somehow after the game.

- Before each and every single game, an official has a teleconference with members from the two teams playing. They bring up things that they're going to be on the lookout for. Whatever is being highlighted that week for whatever reason. Like before each Ravens/Steelers game they probably talk about personal fouls or late hits, etc. Stuff like that. Before the AFC Championship game, the officials bring up the deflated ball thing from earlier in the year. Like hey Patriots, we're going to be on the watch for this because the Colts reported it as an issue last time.

- Then, D'Qwell Jackson picks off Tom Brady. D'Qwell Jackson's like OMG Brady's amazing, I can't believe I intercepted a pass from him, I'm going to give this to my grandkids. He gives the ball to the equipment manager to keep. The equipment manager's like WTF this ball is deflated too! He reports it to the league officials (game day operations guy or something), which prompts the balls being tested at half-time.

The rest is history.

that sounds about exacrly what I expected

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Lets forget about guilt or innocence for a minute. I have one glaring question aside from all of that.

I would say at this point it is a fair assumption that the NFL set up a sting operation for the AFCG against the Pats after being tipped off about ball psi issues.

A lot of people have said back in the day a commish like Tagliabue would have called the Pats and said knock it off, we are watching etc.

So am I to believe that this will be the leagues policy going forward?

If that were the case I would think we will see another sting operation in the not too distant future as it's very common for teams to question other teams on different aspects of pushing the rules.

What kind of precedent has this set and do you see it continuing?

This idea is the crux of my belief that Goodell will be done as Commissioner. I can't imagine the other 31 owners can look at this and think it's an acceptable tactic (assuming it was a pre-planned sting, vs. a response to in game accusations from the first half) going forward. If it was a sting, I think the owners collectively set the precedent that it's unacceptable, and they do so by forcing Rog to resign.

The sources say it wasnt a sting operation- or at least the refs weren't in on it. Which is why the NFL is scrambling now and cant produce the obvious evidence it should have had if it was a sting. If it was a sting it would be open and shut and they certainly wouldnt have played half an AFC Championship game with illegal balls.

I'm not sure of anything at this point. Maybe the refs were not part of it but it looks pretty premeditated by the league going in. This wasn't all put together after kickoff.

No the Colts were demonstrably going to make a stink about the balls, there's no question about that. Whether Kensil had anything to do with this at all is an open question. I dont suppose its odd for him to be on the sidelines during playoff games, but who knows.

It could well have been an opportunity thing, this is what makes sense to me-

-Colts, being butthurt about their regular season loss and hearing the Ravens ##### about the balls decide they are going to challenge them

-They finally get ahold of a Pats ball near halftime, they convene a braintrust around the ball to decide its under pressured (they were always going to decide it was under pressure).

- Kensil is either called over, or he had an idea that this was going to come up. Maybe he gives his two cents, maybe they measure the ball, maybe Kensil weighs in on the Colts behalf and nudges the refs into checking the balls.

-Refs check, balls swapped, game ends.

-Colts leak the report that the balls were found underpressured.

That could easily have been the case without any preplanned sting. It certainly seems like the Colts were driving this thing.

I either read it or heard it on the radio, but someone reported that the Colts submitted a concern about deflated balls in a document that each team sends to the Officials prior to each game.

Tim Hasselbeck said this on WEEI. He sounded very well informed about it. Basically what he said was:

- In the regular season game, someone intercepted Brady (I think Mike Adams). Mike Adams was like hey, I intercepted the great Tom Brady, I'd like to keep the ball. He gives it to the equipment manager.

- The equipment manager, his profession being to manage equipment, notices that the ball feels a little deflated. Doesn't think anything of it.

- Mike Adams picks off Brady again, and again, says hey, I'd like to keep this ball, and gives it to the equipment manager.

- The manager notices that this ball is deflated too, meaning that ball #1 was not an isolated instance.

- The Colts report their concerns to the league somehow after the game.

- Before each and every single game, an official has a teleconference with members from the two teams playing. They bring up things that they're going to be on the lookout for. Whatever is being highlighted that week for whatever reason. Like before each Ravens/Steelers game they probably talk about personal fouls or late hits, etc. Stuff like that. Before the AFC Championship game, the officials bring up the deflated ball thing from earlier in the year. Like hey Patriots, we're going to be on the watch for this because the Colts reported it as an issue last time.

- Then, D'Qwell Jackson picks off Tom Brady. D'Qwell Jackson's like OMG Brady's amazing, I can't believe I intercepted a pass from him, I'm going to give this to my grandkids. He gives the ball to the equipment manager to keep. The equipment manager's like WTF this ball is deflated too! He reports it to the league officials (game day operations guy or something), which prompts the balls being tested at half-time.

The rest is history.

that sounds about exacrly what I expected

FWIW, this is exactly what Mort reported on day 1 of this whole thing happening. The FIRST time it was talked about on Sportscenter, this is how it was described.

I have no idea why the web outlets never picked this series of events up, but this is how it was presented literally the first time it was mentioned on television.

 

[Little Lord Humpleroy]

There is always someone with an axe to grind...

Interesting.....

So as the clouds part over Foxboro and it becomes obvious Deflategate was just a witch hunt conducted by sore losers one name has come to the forefront. The ringleader if you will. His name Mike Kensil. Who is that you ask? Well that’s exactly the same question I asked when I first heard his name mentioned to me 2 days ago from a source close to the Pats. They said look this guy up. Well it turns out he is the former President of the Jets. He was there when Belichick turned in his resignation to come to the Pats. He was there during Spygate. His friends will tell you that he obsesses over his hatred of the Patriots. That he swore 1 day he’s get back at Belichick for leaving him the lurch and sending the Jets into a downward spiral of ineptitude and ruining his career.

Yes it is this Mike Kensil who is now Dir. of Football Operations at National Football League who was prowling the Colts sidelines last week. Yes it is this Mike Kensil, the former Jet with a longstanding grudge against the Patriots who was proactively looking for deflated footballs last week. It is the same Mike Kensil who whispered to Bob Kravitz in a dark tunnel of Gillette about deflated footballs. I’ve even heard rumors that he and the Colts equipment manager conspired to actually deflate the one football that came in at 10.5 PSI. The rest were closer to 11.5 PSI. It is this Mike Kensil who called Chris Mortensen to leak the story about Deflategate.

This of course explains why the league never said anything to the Patriots beforehand about deflated footballs. Why the Colts would risk playing the first half at a disadvantage. Because this was never about fair play. This was never about the integrity of the game. This was simply about revenge plain and simple. It was Mike Kensil trying to set a trap and embarrass the Patriots. Unfortunately what Mike Kensil and the rest of the world found out the hard way is that you don’t trap Bill Belichick, Bill Belhick traps you. Now the NFL is sitting with their **** in their hands. Belichick has all the answers and NFL looks like incompetent buffoons once again. And once again the NFL is going to have to take a hard look in the mirror and investigate itself over wrong doing. All because Mike Kensil had a grudge. For shame. For shame.

Wow. I've been flipping the channels for the past hour and a half and I can't find deflategate anywhere. A couple of mentions here and there, that's it. I also saw reports the NFL is trying to find a physicist that can tell them a little more about deflation, which in all liklihood means they have jack for evidence. Combine it with this info and it looks like the end. It's hard to blame the fans of the other teams for getting so worked up. I don't think I've ever seen a media onslaught quite like that one. I stopped watching news shows quite awhile ago, it just seems like they all have an agenda, they don't report any more, they just give their opinions. I expected more from the sports reporters, I guess a lot of them are formal athletes and don't have much in the line of journalistic ethics. Ah well, it is what it is I guess. From one Pats fan to another I'd like to thank you and all the guys that took the time to defend the team in this thread. Great work.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

- In the regular season game, someone intercepted Brady (I think Mike Adams). Mike Adams was like hey, I intercepted the great Tom Brady, I'd like to keep the ball. He gives it to the equipment manager.

- The equipment manager, his profession being to manage equipment, notices that the ball feels a little deflated. Doesn't think anything of it.

- Mike Adams picks off Brady again, and again, says hey, I'd like to keep this ball, and gives it to the equipment manager.

- The manager notices that this ball is deflated too, meaning that ball #1 was not an isolated instance.

Anyone know what the weather was like in the Lucas Oil Dome that day? Like, -20C?

 

[BustedKnuckles]

I hope the pats DID let air out....it adds to the bad ### reputation of the team...renegades ...like the old time Raiders ...ya baby....you hate us cuz you aint us ...carry on and keep winning titles

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

So if the Pats ballboy had both sets of footballs (Pats and Colts) would that mean the Colts ballboy had both sets of balls when they played at Indy? If you think the Pats ballboy deflated the balls in the can then did they pay the Indy ballboy to do the same in Lucas Stadium?

 

[JIslander]

I hope the pats DID let air out....it adds to the bad ### reputation of the team...renegades ...like the old time Raiders ...ya baby....you hate us cuz you aint us ...carry on and keep winning titles

oh man. I'm sure Raiders fans just cringed over that comparison.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

I hope the pats DID let air out....it adds to the bad ### reputation of the team...renegades ...like the old time Raiders ...ya baby....you hate us cuz you aint us ...carry on and keep winning titles

oh man. I'm sure Raiders fans just cringed over that comparison.

ya im just playin....im actually a Raiders fan who lives in new england ha

 

[Old Smiley]

I hope the pats DID let air out....it adds to the bad ### reputation of the team...renegades ...like the old time Raiders ...ya baby....you hate us cuz you aint us ...carry on and keep winning titles

oh man. I'm sure Raiders fans just cringed over that comparison.

He meant like the Raiders only smart. ;-)

 

[espnespn]

- In the regular season game, someone intercepted Brady (I think Mike Adams). Mike Adams was like hey, I intercepted the great Tom Brady, I'd like to keep the ball. He gives it to the equipment manager.

- The equipment manager, his profession being to manage equipment, notices that the ball feels a little deflated. Doesn't think anything of it.

- Mike Adams picks off Brady again, and again, says hey, I'd like to keep this ball, and gives it to the equipment manager.

- The manager notices that this ball is deflated too, meaning that ball #1 was not an isolated instance.

Anyone know what the weather was like in the Lucas Oil Dome that day? Like, -20C?

Maybe the Patriots balls were stored near a speaker, and the illegally piped-in noise at Lucas Oil Dome shook loose the football laces and lowered the PSI.

http://www.wthr.com/story/26669123/2014/09/30/ravens-coach-questions-lucas-oil-stadium-noise

 

[12punch]

So if the Pats ballboy had both sets of footballs (Pats and Colts) would that mean the Colts ballboy had both sets of balls when they played at Indy? If you think the Pats ballboy deflated the balls in the can then did they pay the Indy ballboy to do the same in Lucas Stadium?

it's long been suspected that belichick has an extensive network of tunnels across the country that come up in the bathrooms of every stadium

 

[Old Smiley]

Which, you can't prove that.