Patriots being investigated after Colts game (2 Viewers)

[AB in DC]

I know one thing about this thread without reading it all; Patriot fans are trying to come up with any excuse to show their team did nothing wrong when in reality they can not show once source from the NFL that states that fact at the current time. So man up be willing to understand the Patriots potentially did something wrong and wait for the NFL to come out with its findings.

If everyone in this thread was willing to wait for the NFL's findings before passing judgment, it would be 6 pages long, not 86 pages long.

 

[cmv5]

This game here from 2009 has always bothered me. http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009101810/2009/REG6/titans@patriots#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A09000d5d81381689&tab=recap

Answering it now. Yes, from 2009. Why would there be any reason to assume that they haven't been doing this forever?

 

[General Tso]

There's really not enough evidence to conclude anything at this point. Just because the accused cheater has an excuse doesn't make this any closer to being resolved then it was a few days ago.

I think it's safe to say that the Pat's not tampering with the balls is just about as factual as the Eagles not making the playoffs this year.

Everyone knows not to take your biased views seriously after you murdered the Dez thread. Your 2 for 2 on looking like a complete clown. Actually probably many more that I fortunately haven't had to witness.

Well, grammatical butchering aside, your threads are about as worthwhile as #### on a bull. I honestly don't mind people espousing their own views, hardened as they may be, if they are at least supported with some facts, information or links that bring some value to the intellectual discourse. I may disagree with guys like moleculo or wdcrob, but I respect what they bring to the discussion. You, not so much.Enjoy the Pro Bowl!

Your ignorance doesn't justify it, just interesting to watch your need for attention and redundant BS.

LOL! I'm interested in it because it's my team and my city. Your interest in it is more curious - a lonely Eagle fan with nothing to do on a Sunday afternoon in January. But thanks for the comic relief. Seriously.

 

[12punch]

After reading the Carnegie Mellon study, it's pretty clear that they did no such thing as replicate the game conditions. They wet rye balls and just let them sit therein a shelf in 50 degrees.

During the game, the balls were constantly dried off by both the refs and equipment managers. Only one ball at a time was exposed to the elements and it was constantly wiped down by the refs. The other 11 balls were kept nice and dry and warmer while that ball was on play. Further, the ball in play at any time was also constantly being handled by people gripping it, rubbing it, etc, so they would all have an effect on the external and internal temperature of the ball.

The way the balls were handled and treated during the game is so completely different than sitting wet on a shelf that their experiment is totally useless.

saying that they were playing with warm dry footballs during the game doesn't bolster the argument that the patriots gained an in-game advantage. quite the opposite actually

Huh? I didn't say the footballs magically repelled the water. Certainly the exteriors became wet and slippery when put into play. But having a layer of water on the outside of the football that is constantly wiped off is entirely different than being soaked in water and left to sit.

The HeadSmart video explains that 2 factors can decrease football PSI.

1) Colder temperature: This is generally accepted as true by most rational scientists. If you have scientific proof that colder temperature does *not* decrease football PSI, please let everyone know at once. Your "discovery" could win you the Nobel Prize because it would overturn the Ideal Gas Law.

2) Water: Leather will absorb some of the water and expand, which increases the volume of the football, but decrease the football PSI. HeadSmart soaked the ball 1x and let it sit there -- but water beads, so some parts of the football lose contact with water very quickly. Someone could argue that game conditions are even worse because the football is soaked repeatedly. Sure it is wiped off, but that means it is dry for a few seconds before it is wet again by the rain. The only way to prove or disprove which is worse, is with an experiment.

In any event, saying their experiment is "totally useless" is inaccurate. It absolutely proves again that cold temperature decreases PSI. Reasonable people can argue over how much PSI is lost from wet leather. But none of that proves that the Patriots deflated any balls.

If you really dispute the HeadSmart video, why don't you post a video of your own experiment and let us know the results?

yeah, I have no way of knowing how much the water enters into this, and I certainly don't care one way or the other, but if we're just talking about the science of it I wonder how much those guys rubbed their balls before conducting this experiment.

pats most likely scrub that lacquered finish off the outside, which I'd guess would make it more likely to soak up water.

but, as I said earlier -- wgaf

 

[12punch]

This game here from 2009 has always bothered me. http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009101810/2009/REG6/titans@patriots#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A09000d5d81381689&tab=recap

loooooooooooooool titans fan?

 

[cmv5]

This game here from 2009 has always bothered me. http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009101810/2009/REG6/titans@patriots#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A09000d5d81381689&tab=recap

loooooooooooooool titans fan?

Is there such a thing? Nope.

 

[GoBirds]

There's really not enough evidence to conclude anything at this point. Just because the accused cheater has an excuse doesn't make this any closer to being resolved then it was a few days ago.

I think it's safe to say that the Pat's not tampering with the balls is just about as factual as the Eagles not making the playoffs this year.

Everyone knows not to take your biased views seriously after you murdered the Dez thread. Your 2 for 2 on looking like a complete clown. Actually probably many more that I fortunately haven't had to witness.

Well, grammatical butchering aside, your threads are about as worthwhile as #### on a bull. I honestly don't mind people espousing their own views, hardened as they may be, if they are at least supported with some facts, information or links that bring some value to the intellectual discourse. I may disagree with guys like moleculo or wdcrob, but I respect what they bring to the discussion. You, not so much.Enjoy the Pro Bowl!

Your ignorance doesn't justify it, just interesting to watch your need for attention and redundant BS.

LOL! I'm interested in it because it's my team and my city. Your interest in it is more curious - a lonely Eagle fan with nothing to do on a Sunday afternoon in January. But thanks for the comic relief. Seriously.

No need to explain, it's pretty obvious who does and doesn't have a horse in this race. The ball boy could admit to it and you will still make a lame excuse.

 

[AB in DC]

A team from the South plays poorly in blizzard conditions and a team from colder climate plays well? STOP THE PRESSES!!

 

[12punch]

omg that game was so awesome --- especially cuz I had brady in fantasy

would always 'reach' for him every year

good times...... /billmcneal

Quick Take: Pats-TitansIt was over when ...

The Patriots scored 35 points in the second quarter, all on the arm of Tom Brady. His five touchdown passes in the second quarter were the most by any player in a quarter since 1950

1950??

pretty sure montana played after 1950, didn't he?

 

[cmv5]

A team from the South plays poorly in blizzard conditions and a team from colder climate plays well? STOP THE PRESSES!!

There's playing poorly and then there is excelling in crap weather. Fine, let's go back to the much more plausible buffin friction causing balls to swell up.

 

[biju]

The NFL picked the wrong town to #### with. Boston is home to some of the smartest people in the world.

Seattle arguably is smarter, or at least beat out Boston in 2013

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/2013/11/seattle-named-smartest-city-in-north-america/

Seattle named smartest city in North America

Seattle is the continents smartest city, according to new rankings by the business magazine Fast Company. The Emerald City moved into the top spot from last years third-place showing. [...]

Here is the complete list of top-10 cities:

1. Seattle

2. Boston (tie)

2. San Francisco (tie)

4. Washington D.C.

5. New York

6. Toronto

7. Vancouver

8. Portland

9. Chicago

10. Montreal

And just for the record, everyone I've talked to here in Seattle says this isn't a big deal. The "outrage" over this is from fans who saw the Patriots oust them. That's probably also why now they have to attack Russell Wilson with the Luck vs. Wilson thread.

So much salt on these boards based on the SB teams.

 

[Bayhawks]

Sure it's possible for the PSI of a football to change due to weather, but the fact that only the balls that the Pats used in the first half experienced this change is what still has not been explained.

Why do folks keep ignoring this?

It is the proverbial elephant in the room that people keep pointing to and the response is always "What elephant?" The stock answers seem to be along the lines "Ask the Colts" or "Who cares?" But, it is not irrelevant and a major question that has to be answered if people expect the public to move on from this.

not relevany at all. The NFL must prove the Patriots dekiberately did something wrong. Period end of story.

Oh, my bad. So, obviously, the NFL proved that Josh Gordon deliberately smoked weed, even though he claimed it was 2nd-hand smoke. And that Wes Welker wasn't slipped drugs at the Kentucky Derby, he deliberately used them. Or that Ben Roethlisberger did break a law when he was suspended 6 games.

Oh wait, you mean the NFL DID NOT need to prove that any of them deliberately broke an NFL rule? So, the NFL can punish individuals even if they unknowingly break a rule (or are never convicted, let along charged with a crime)?

That doesn't fit with your belief that the NFL has to prove the Pats deliberately broke a rule.....not that I want to let reality get in the way of your story.

 

[moleculo]

but, as I said earlier -- wgaf

obviously, you don't so I don't understand why you are still posting this. Clearly, some people gaf.

 

[theplayer11]

There's really not enough evidence to conclude anything at this point. Just because the accused cheater has an excuse doesn't make this any closer to being resolved then it was a few days ago.

I think it's safe to say that the Pat's not tampering with the balls is just about as factual as the Eagles not making the playoffs this year.

Everyone knows not to take your biased views seriously after you murdered the Dez thread. Your 2 for 2 on looking like a complete clown. Actually probably many more that I fortunately haven't had to witness.

Well, grammatical butchering aside, your threads are about as worthwhile as #### on a bull. I honestly don't mind people espousing their own views, hardened as they may be, if they are at least supported with some facts, information or links that bring some value to the intellectual discourse. I may disagree with guys like moleculo or wdcrob, but I respect what they bring to the discussion. You, not so much.Enjoy the Pro Bowl!

Your ignorance doesn't justify it, just interesting to watch your need for attention and redundant BS.

LOL! I'm interested in it because it's my team and my city. Your interest in it is more curious - a lonely Eagle fan with nothing to do on a Sunday afternoon in January. But thanks for the comic relief. Seriously.

No need to explain, it's pretty obvious who does and doesn't have a horse in this race. The ball boy could admit to it and you will still make a lame excuse

and the ones who don't have a horse are here for no other resaon to hate..must suck to be so jealous and envious.

 

[General Tso]

There's really not enough evidence to conclude anything at this point. Just because the accused cheater has an excuse doesn't make this any closer to being resolved then it was a few days ago.

I think it's safe to say that the Pat's not tampering with the balls is just about as factual as the Eagles not making the playoffs this year.

Everyone knows not to take your biased views seriously after you murdered the Dez thread. Your 2 for 2 on looking like a complete clown. Actually probably many more that I fortunately haven't had to witness.

Well, grammatical butchering aside, your threads are about as worthwhile as #### on a bull. I honestly don't mind people espousing their own views, hardened as they may be, if they are at least supported with some facts, information or links that bring some value to the intellectual discourse. I may disagree with guys like moleculo or wdcrob, but I respect what they bring to the discussion. You, not so much.Enjoy the Pro Bowl!

Your ignorance doesn't justify it, just interesting to watch your need for attention and redundant BS.

LOL! I'm interested in it because it's my team and my city. Your interest in it is more curious - a lonely Eagle fan with nothing to do on a Sunday afternoon in January. But thanks for the comic relief. Seriously.

No need to explain, it's pretty obvious who does and doesn't have a horse in this race. The ball boy could admit to it and you will still make a lame excuse.

You don't know me as well as you think you do...

So, if true, this is no big deal to any Pats fans? What kind of cheating would not be acceptable?

Honestly, I'm now very concerned as a Pats fan. And a football fan. If this is proven to be the work of the Patriots then I'd have no trouble with the NFL throwing the book at them. To the point where I'd want Belichik to be canned.But let's see the evidence first. Hopefully they measured the pressure on the Colts' footballs at the same exact time so we have a concrete comparison. I'm hearing it is possible for all the balls to have deflated to tis level purely due to the change in temp / air pressure. We'll see. Can't for the life of me imagine the Pats risking so much for so little.

 

[Niles Standish]

I think the league just has to let it go, unless they want to compromise the Superbowl. Even if they can disprove BB claims it will only make the league and potential champ look even worse in a year they don't need that.

Maybe the do something after the fact if they lose and it doesn't taint the winning team.

Seriously? Do you think the independent law firm and investigation firm that were hired will join the conspiracy? Do you think if the NFL has proof it won't leak out?I understand you're a Seahawks fan so you want to believe the Pats cheated if they win. But you sound beyond ridiculous.

If the Pats cheated it will be exposed.

Wrong birds definitely not Seahawks fan. Last I heard the NFL hadn't even interviewed Brady....didn't sound like they were too motivated.

Either way. The NFL hired a private investigative group and a private legal firm. Even if you think the NFL might cover up info the private groups will not. That could land them in jail.

Land them in jail, that's funny. I think they just give a warning and let it go.

I know at my job I could prosecuted for covering up or falsifying information. A lawyer could be disbarred. We'd have to hear from lawyer guys if they could be prosecuted for hiding or giving false information but they do have to follow ethical rules.

I think there is enough of a grey area.....plus they won by 40 so it obviously wasn't a factor.

What are you talking about???2 independent firms and the NFL aren't going to risk their credibility and livelihood to cover up a crime for someone they (private firms at least) have no connection to. The fact that you are arguing this is insane...

Let it go, if the Pats broke the rules we will hear. If they did something borderline the numbers will show that. That's the point of hiring not 1 but 2 private groups to figure this out. Even the guys who are definitely are hoping and still think the Pats did something wrong aren't siding with you here.

The way you say things should happen and the way they have proceeded so far are 2 different things.

You mean the NFL hiring an independent law firm and an independent investigative firm and issuing a press release to that fact?

They probably won't release their results for a bit. Large investigations take time especially when you want the world to know you examined every possibility. That's common sense sporto.

You talking about the same NFL that never tried to research Ray Rice beating the piss out of his wife and did less research than the paparazzi? Don't hold your breath Einstein.

I guess the press release was all lies. They didn't really hire those 2 independent firms. You're totally rational!

 

[Niles Standish]

Sure it's possible for the PSI of a football to change due to weather, but the fact that only the balls that the Pats used in the first half experienced this change is what still has not been explained.

Why do folks keep ignoring this?

It is the proverbial elephant in the room that people keep pointing to and the response is always "What elephant?" The stock answers seem to be along the lines "Ask the Colts" or "Who cares?" But, it is not irrelevant and a major question that has to be answered if people expect the public to move on from this.

not relevany at all. The NFL must prove the Patriots dekiberately did something wrong. Period end of story.

Oh, my bad. So, obviously, the NFL proved that Josh Gordon deliberately smoked weed, even though he claimed it was 2nd-hand smoke. And that Wes Welker wasn't slipped drugs at the Kentucky Derby, he deliberately used them. Or that Ben Roethlisberger did break a law when he was suspended 6 games.Oh wait, you mean the NFL DID NOT need to prove that any of them deliberately broke an NFL rule? So, the NFL can punish individuals even if they unknowingly break a rule (or are never convicted, let along charged with a crime)?

That doesn't fit with your belief that the NFL has to prove the Pats deliberately broke a rule.....not that I want to let reality get in the way of your story.

You should stick with facts instead of your make believe world. The Colts balls were within the limit when tested or that's what anonymous sources have said at least. That doesn't mean they're magic and don't react to the atmosphere. Well I guess it could theoretically. But the much more likely answer than magic is that the Colts started higher than 12.5.

 

[General Tso]

The NFL picked the wrong town to #### with. Boston is home to some of the smartest people in the world.

Seattle arguably is smarter, or at least beat out Boston in 2013 http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/2013/11/seattle-named-smartest-city-in-north-america/

Seattle named smartest city in North America

Seattle is the continents smartest city, according to new rankings by the business magazine Fast Company. The Emerald City moved into the top spot from last years third-place showing. [...]

Here is the complete list of top-10 cities:

1. Seattle

2. Boston (tie)

2. San Francisco (tie)

4. Washington D.C.

5. New York

6. Toronto

7. Vancouver

8. Portland

9. Chicago

10. Montreal

And just for the record, everyone I've talked to here in Seattle says this isn't a big deal. The "outrage" over this is from fans who saw the Patriots oust them. That's probably also why now they have to attack Russell Wilson with the Luck vs. Wilson thread.

So much salt on these boards based on the SB teams.

I have to say, I haven't had a whole lot of love for the Seahawks, but what you are saying here rings true to me. I don't think I've heard one negative word from Seahawks fans about this whole ridiculous story. Even Bill Nye said what he said tongue in cheek and without any ill will in m opinion.

 

[12punch]

but, as I said earlier -- wgaf

obviously, you don't so I don't understand why you are still posting this. Clearly, some people gaf.

I'm posting it so salty trolls, such as yourself, don't misinterpret it as some kind of 'defense' of whatever, as i don't see the point in defending nonsensical claims.

clearly some people like to troll messageboards to entertain themselves, pathetic though that might be

 

[GoBirds]

There's really not enough evidence to conclude anything at this point. Just because the accused cheater has an excuse doesn't make this any closer to being resolved then it was a few days ago.

I think it's safe to say that the Pat's not tampering with the balls is just about as factual as the Eagles not making the playoffs this year.

Everyone knows not to take your biased views seriously after you murdered the Dez thread. Your 2 for 2 on looking like a complete clown. Actually probably many more that I fortunately haven't had to witness.

Well, grammatical butchering aside, your threads are about as worthwhile as #### on a bull. I honestly don't mind people espousing their own views, hardened as they may be, if they are at least supported with some facts, information or links that bring some value to the intellectual discourse. I may disagree with guys like moleculo or wdcrob, but I respect what they bring to the discussion. You, not so much.Enjoy the Pro Bowl!

Your ignorance doesn't justify it, just interesting to watch your need for attention and redundant BS.

LOL! I'm interested in it because it's my team and my city. Your interest in it is more curious - a lonely Eagle fan with nothing to do on a Sunday afternoon in January. But thanks for the comic relief. Seriously.

No need to explain, it's pretty obvious who does and doesn't have a horse in this race. The ball boy could admit to it and you will still make a lame excuse

and the ones who don't have a horse are here for no other resaon to hate..must suck to be so jealous and envious.

Not really, I think what's being questioned isn't really relevant since it was such a blowout. Media just blows it up since BB has been caught cheating before....if it was another team you have to wonder if it's an issue.

The comedy is the "oh snap, BB said he did science experiment....it 100% didn't happen!". A little extreme fellas.

 

[Morton Muffley]

That's not what Belichick said. You probably need to go back and read it again.

"I believe now 100% that I have personally, and we as an organization, have absolutely followed every rule to the letter." - Bill BelichickThat's all I need to hear.

No way he makes this statement if there was any chance someone manipulated the ball after they were approved for play by NFL officials.

The balls were likely slightly under inflated when they were approved for play. This would explain EVERYTHING.

Not Cheating.

Exactly. The idiocy of the salty haters current arguments is mind boggling to me because it is clear that the argument should NOT be about "does weather cause psi drop?" (It does) or "why didn't the colts balls drop in psi?" (Maybe they did but stayed in range, maybe they didn't cuz they were prepped outside. Maybe they didn't because they were tampered with to keep them in range...so many possibilities and so little knowledge as to be irrelevant as either a control OR an argument).

Rather the salty haters argument SHOULD be (and I suspect soon will be) that BB engaged in a practice that he knew would artificially increase the psi and that this is cheating OR it doesn't matter if he knew or not that the process would artificially increase the psi because ignorance is no excuse and therefore he submitted balls that were either under inflated OR artificially inflated.

For the record I am in camp 1 but at least I could understand if someone was arguing intent.....what I can't understand is all the folks in here arguing the physics of weather impact using incomplete or entirely incorrect info. Again, the nfl investigation will run it's course so I am not saying the BB's claims are all I need. What I am saying is that he provide an emphatic and plausible explanation and that the burden of proof lies with the NFL now. And for the record, I felt differently prior to his pressed as it seemed to me that weather could not account for the entirety of the rumored drop in psi

 

[moleculo]

but, as I said earlier -- wgaf

obviously, you don't so I don't understand why you are still posting this. Clearly, some people gaf.

I'm posting it so salty trolls, such as yourself, don't misinterpret it as some kind of 'defense' of whatever, as i don't see the point in defending nonsensical claims.

clearly some people like to troll messageboards to entertain themselves, pathetic though that might be

lol, that's rich.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Member name Posts shader 190 12punch 118 moleculo 115 Deamon 112 Run It Up 109 rockaction 101 General Tso 95 ROCKET 92 Dr. Octopus 90 Anarchy99 90 devouredbychaos 89

The bolded are all defending the Patriots like someone insulted their mother. But the "haters" are obsessed, trolling, etc.? Oh my.

 

[Deamon]

Member name Posts shader 190 12punch 118 moleculo 115 Deamon 112 Run It Up 109 rockaction 101 General Tso 95 ROCKET 92 Dr. Octopus 90 Anarchy99 90 devouredbychaos 89

The bolded are all defending the Patriots like someone insulted their mother. But the "haters" are obsessed, trolling, etc.? Oh my.

Jesus, why'd you have to post that?

I, like BB, am now embarrassed by how much of my time this issue has taken up.

 

[moleculo]

Member name Posts shader 190 12punch 118 moleculo 115 Deamon 112 Run It Up 109 rockaction 101 General Tso 95 ROCKET 92 Dr. Octopus 90 Anarchy99 90 devouredbychaos 89

The bolded are all defending the Patriots like someone insulted their mother. But the "haters" are obsessed, trolling, etc.? Oh my.

damn. I need to tone it back. I'm out until the NFL releases their report, as there really isn't much more to be said.

 

[Bayhawks]

Sure it's possible for the PSI of a football to change due to weather, but the fact that only the balls that the Pats used in the first half experienced this change is what still has not been explained.

Why do folks keep ignoring this?

It is the proverbial elephant in the room that people keep pointing to and the response is always "What elephant?" The stock answers seem to be along the lines "Ask the Colts" or "Who cares?" But, it is not irrelevant and a major question that has to be answered if people expect the public to move on from this.

not relevany at all. The NFL must prove the Patriots dekiberately did something wrong. Period end of story.

Oh, my bad. So, obviously, the NFL proved that Josh Gordon deliberately smoked weed, even though he claimed it was 2nd-hand smoke. And that Wes Welker wasn't slipped drugs at the Kentucky Derby, he deliberately used them. Or that Ben Roethlisberger did break a law when he was suspended 6 games.Oh wait, you mean the NFL DID NOT need to prove that any of them deliberately broke an NFL rule? So, the NFL can punish individuals even if they unknowingly break a rule (or are never convicted, let along charged with a crime)?

That doesn't fit with your belief that the NFL has to prove the Pats deliberately broke a rule.....not that I want to let reality get in the way of your story.

You should stick with facts instead of your make believe world. The Colts balls were within the limit when tested or that's what anonymous sources have said at least. That doesn't mean they're magic and don't react to the atmosphere. Well I guess it could theoretically. But the much more likely answer than magic is that the Colts started higher than 12.5.

You should pay attention to what you quote.

I was told that the NFL must prove that the Patriots had deliberately did something wrong...period, end of story.

I merely pointed out that this wasn't true, as they never PROVED that Gordon deliberately did something wrong; he still claims it was 2nd-hand smoke. They never proved that Welker deliberately did drugs; he still insists it must have been slipped to him. They never proved that Roethlsiberger did anything illegal, as the legal system didn't even charge him with anything. Yet in all 3 cases, the NFL suspended the individuals in question. So the idea that the NFL must prove that the Pats deliberately did something wrong is completely false.

As to your reply, I've already posted that even if the Colts started at the upper end of the legal limit (13.5), if they had dropped the 2 PSI that the Pats balls are reported to have dropped in the 1st half, then they would have been illegal as well (12.5 being the lower limit). Therefore, FOR SOME REASON, the Colt footballs didn't react to the atmospheric conditions that BB's "scientific study" claimed proved the Pats followed the rule.

 

[shader]

I'm not reading through all of the posts since BB's presser, but I have 3 questions:

BB said that the Pats "prepare" the ball supposedly by roughing them up, to Brady's liking. Then they give them to the refs and have them adjust the ball to 12.5 PSI. Tom Brady has said he likes the ball at 12.5 PSI. If the balls are prepared to Brady's liking, that would imply that they are inflated to 12.5 PSI. Why the need to then ask the refs to inflate them to 12.5 PSI? Shouldn't that already be the case?

Why were all the Colts balls within the official range, if the weather actually caused the change in PSI of the Pat's footballs?

Why didn't the 2nd half balls deflate, since the same "science" that BB refers to should have applied to them?

I understand that scientific tests can be repeated, but in this case, the tests already were repeated, during the 2nd half, and the control group (Colts footballs) and the 2nd test (2nd half) don't support the idea of atmospheric changes. As for the "internal study" that BB mentions (in which he failed to specify exactly what they did) would seem to be coming from a biased group of "scientists" since they obviously had something to gain by producing the result that they are reporting.

Go ask the colts.It really doesn't matter. The few remaining ones left who are still confused because they didn't follow yesterday's events are likely wondering what happened.

But it's simple. Psi changes. BB proved that. Who cares about what the psi is for this and the psi is for that. That really wasn't his point. His point is that psi isn't an exact science, it changes based in a variety of factors, and the NFL has no business investigating psi during a game, as in cold weather games psi is likely to be far lower than it was when the officials measured it.

Ask the Colts? It doesn't matter? PSI changes, BB proved that?Seriously?

BB just said according to what we did (and I won't tell you exactly what we did), the PSI will change. But we should ignore the fact that the Colt's balls didn't change (at least, not by the same amount, as they remained in the legal range when re-inspected). We should also ignore the fact that when the balls were replaced in the 2nd half, the PSI didn't change (again, at least not enough to become "illegal").

So what did BB prove? That he could say (without actually showing any evidence) that the change in PSI in their 1st half footballs was due to the weather, but the PSI of the Colt's footballs and the Pats 2nd half footballs didn't have the same weather influences?

Sure it's possible for the PSI of a football to change due to weather, but the fact that only the balls that the Pats used in the first half experienced this change is what still has not been explained.

Why do folks keep ignoring this?

Because you can't prove it.

If I tested one million balls and they all changed psi under these conditions, would you still hold to a news report by an espn journalist using "unnamed sources"?

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Ian Kenyon‏@IanKenyonNFL 24h24 hours ago

"I've handled dozens of balls in the past week" - Bill Belichick

http://www.sportspickle.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/bill-belichick.jpg

 

[GoBirds]

Member name Posts shader 190 12punch 118 moleculo 115 Deamon 112 Run It Up 109 rockaction 101 General Tso 95 ROCKET 92 Dr. Octopus 90 Anarchy99 90 devouredbychaos 89

The bolded are all defending the Patriots like someone insulted their mother. But the "haters" are obsessed, trolling, etc.? Oh my.

Haha...stop hatin!

 

[shader]

2 camps battling here

camp 1 - I want the pats to be cleared and found innocent no matter the findings

camp 2 - I want the pats found to be guilty cheaters no matter the findings

hard to have a normal conversation between 2 such camps ...its like watching verbal tennis ...back and forth each trying to beat the other ...but this match will never end ...ever

I agree, but at least camp 2 is willing to stick to their guns. Camp 1 just completely changes their stance every time they think they've found something that can help them.

IE, 30 pages back camp 1 was finding quotes from every scientist they could about the weather's affect on PSI. Now, when a scientist says something that doesn't befit them, they literally just said "the opinion of a scientist shouldn't matter".

Likewise, they went on for page after page driveling on about how no one should make any judgements until every last bit of hard evidence has been found and verified. Then Belichick comes on TV and claims to have done an experiment (oooh, an experiment controlled by the accused, as if that would ever fly) without any actual evidence as to that experiment and they immediately jump off the "we have to wait until all the facts are out" stance and into "case closed, and you're all complete idiots for even ever considering this".

What? You call the Bill Nye segment science? He may be a science guy, but that was not science. He said that what Belichik said about rubbing the balls didn't make sense. That's it. He didn't support it with facts. He made a one line statement, and now camp 2 is taking that as gospel that the entirety of what Belichik said is false. It's ridiculous.Bottom line, camp 2 is the guys running around with tin foil hats. Camp 1 is home to some of best colleges, research universities and high tech firms in the world. And I've seen several of these folks come out and provide ample scientific data proving that psi changes of as much as 2.0 can occur simply through a change in atmospheric conditions. I haven't seen one bit of scientific data or experiment from camp 1 to dispute this. Not one.

The NFL picked the wrong town to #### with. Boston is home to some of the smartest people in the world.

Great post.

Just as we realized yesterday the only thing the haters have left is "what about the colts balls??"

And of course now

"But bill Nye the science guy said"

 

[Deamon]

Sure it's possible for the PSI of a football to change due to weather, but the fact that only the balls that the Pats used in the first half experienced this change is what still has not been explained.

Why do folks keep ignoring this?

It is the proverbial elephant in the room that people keep pointing to and the response is always "What elephant?" The stock answers seem to be along the lines "Ask the Colts" or "Who cares?" But, it is not irrelevant and a major question that has to be answered if people expect the public to move on from this.

not relevany at all. The NFL must prove the Patriots dekiberately did something wrong. Period end of story.

Oh, my bad. So, obviously, the NFL proved that Josh Gordon deliberately smoked weed, even though he claimed it was 2nd-hand smoke. And that Wes Welker wasn't slipped drugs at the Kentucky Derby, he deliberately used them. Or that Ben Roethlisberger did break a law when he was suspended 6 games.Oh wait, you mean the NFL DID NOT need to prove that any of them deliberately broke an NFL rule? So, the NFL can punish individuals even if they unknowingly break a rule (or are never convicted, let along charged with a crime)?

That doesn't fit with your belief that the NFL has to prove the Pats deliberately broke a rule.....not that I want to let reality get in the way of your story.

You should stick with facts instead of your make believe world. The Colts balls were within the limit when tested or that's what anonymous sources have said at least. That doesn't mean they're magic and don't react to the atmosphere. Well I guess it could theoretically. But the much more likely answer than magic is that the Colts started higher than 12.5.

You should pay attention to what you quote.

I was told that the NFL must prove that the Patriots had deliberately did something wrong...period, end of story.

I merely pointed out that this wasn't true, as they never PROVED that Gordon deliberately did something wrong; he still claims it was 2nd-hand smoke. They never proved that Welker deliberately did drugs; he still insists it must have been slipped to him. They never proved that Roethlsiberger did anything illegal, as the legal system didn't even charge him with anything. Yet in all 3 cases, the NFL suspended the individuals in question. So the idea that the NFL must prove that the Pats deliberately did something wrong is completely false.

As to your reply, I've already posted that even if the Colts started at the upper end of the legal limit (13.5), if they had dropped the 2 PSI that the Pats balls are reported to have dropped in the 1st half, then they would have been illegal as well (12.5 being the lower limit). Therefore, FOR SOME REASON, the Colt footballs didn't react to the atmospheric conditions that BB's "scientific study" claimed proved the Pats followed the rule.

Again, you don't know how Luck preps his balls. How is this so hard to understand? If Indy doesn't rub or work them in the same way, there wouldn't be that 1 gained. Also the Colts didn't use as many balls as the pats did in the first half. Also maybe the colts pumped them up outdoors... or more likely, knew a 'raid' was coming on the ball pressure, and took the steps to make sure theirs would be fine at halftime. Also, we don't know what/where/how the colts balls were even measured. Why are you acting like this is fact? This is getting repetitive here, try another angle.

I agree, RG can give penalties even without 'proof". In the cases you stated, it was still a personal conduct thing. RG could put this under the "we can't prove it but I assume you did it so you're punished", but I think after this investigation he wouldn't dare try that. He's gonna unfortunately have to prove this one and I highly doubt he can. The truth will come out, so let's all just be patient and accept the truth when it does? It seems the anti-pats people in here won't accept it even if they do come out and say they didn't do anything wrong though. While pats supporters I bet will admit fault if the nfl comes out with proof they did it.

 

[shader]

It has been reported that the 12th ball was underinflated. http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2015-01-21/ex-nfl-referee-all-12-patriot-footballs-were-underinflated-new-england-tom-brady-bill-belichick This has been reported MULTIPLE times. Here's another http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/01/20/new-england-patriots-deflated-footballs-nfl-investigation

Please show me where it has been reported that the Colts balls stayed at exactly the same psi the entire game. All the Colts had to do was have footballs remain in the range of 11.5 to 12.5. Not hard to do. What is odd is for a football to lose 2 pounds in the course of a game. Just stop.

How do you know it's odd for a football to lose 2 pounds of pressure in a game?

 

[12punch]

Member name Posts shader 190 12punch 118 moleculo 115 Deamon 112 Run It Up 109 rockaction 101 General Tso 95 ROCKET 92 Dr. Octopus 90 Anarchy99 90 devouredbychaos 89

The bolded are all defending the Patriots like someone insulted their mother. But the "haters" are obsessed, trolling, etc.? Oh my.

oh yeah, I'm ez to troll --- you can troll me on the pats anytime

guaranteed I got more than 118 posts on the pats --- ####### love the pats

doubt you'll find me posting hundreds of times about some team I hate, though.......

 

[shader]

Member name Posts shader 190 12punch 118 moleculo 115 Deamon 112 Run It Up 109 rockaction 101 General Tso 95 ROCKET 92 Dr. Octopus 90 Anarchy99 90 devouredbychaos 89

The bolded are all defending the Patriots like someone insulted their mother. But the "haters" are obsessed, trolling, etc.? Oh my.

Oh my that's embarrassing

 

[General Tso]

That's not what Belichick said. You probably need to go back and read it again.

"I believe now 100% that I have personally, and we as an organization, have absolutely followed every rule to the letter." - Bill Belichick That's all I need to hear.No way he makes this statement if there was any chance someone manipulated the ball after they were approved for play by NFL officials. The balls were likely slightly under inflated when they were approved for play. This would explain EVERYTHING.Not Cheating.

Exactly. The idiocy of the salty haters current arguments is mind boggling to me because it is clear that the argument should NOT be about "does weather cause psi drop?" (It does) or "why didn't the colts balls drop in psi?" (Maybe they did but stayed in range, maybe they didn't cuz they were prepped outside. Maybe they didn't because they were tampered with to keep them in range...so many possibilities and so little knowledge as to be irrelevant as either a control OR an argument).Rather the salty haters argument SHOULD be (and I suspect soon will be) that BB engaged in a practice that he knew would artificially increase the psi and that this is cheating OR it doesn't matter if he knew or not that the process would artificially increase the psi because ignorance is no excuse and therefore he submitted balls that were either under inflated OR artificially inflated.For the record I am in camp 1 but at least I could understand if someone was arguing intent.....what I can't understand is all the folks in here arguing the physics of weather impact using incomplete or entirely incorrect info. Again, the nfl investigation will run it's course so I am not saying the BB's claims are all I need. What I am saying is that he provide an emphatic and plausible explanation and that the burden of proof lies with the NFL now. And for the record, I felt differently prior to his pressed as it seemed to me that weather could not account for the entirety of the rumored drop in psi

Good post. I agree that very soon the salty haters will shift their argument away from post inspection tampering towards a focus on what the Patriots magically do in the preparation rituals. As if somehow the Pats are doing all their preparation stuff to cause balls to deflate during the game, rather than to improve the texture as Bill said is the focus.Be careful going down this road, unless you are full prepared to also look into what every other NFL team is doing. We know Peyton and Eli are fanatical about ball preparation, to the point that El Manning and the Giants apparently go through a process that spans many weeks and costs a lot of money.

What's starting to really irk me about this whole sordid mess is the selective prosecution going on. It's analogous to me calling my local police department and asking them to investigate my neighbor for drug use because of an unsubstantiated rumor I heard. There's no grand jury before a huge trial is launched in the NFL. All you need is an allegation against a team that everyone is sick of. If you disagree, answer this question... Where was the investigation when the Panthers heated the balls on the sidelines, right on national television? Where was the investigation when Aaron Rodgers acknowledged that he and the Packers submit overinflated balls to the refs for pregame inspection hoping some would sneak by? There's no concept of fairness at all in the NFL anymore. None. It's all politics.

 

[Deamon]

Member name Posts shader 190 12punch 118 moleculo 115 Deamon 112 Run It Up 109 rockaction 101 General Tso 95 ROCKET 92 Dr. Octopus 90 Anarchy99 90 devouredbychaos 89

The bolded are all defending the Patriots like someone insulted their mother. But the "haters" are obsessed, trolling, etc.? Oh my.

Haha...stop hatin!

I'm a birds fan too.... and I know Tso has very skewed opinions on this, and on the dez thing. But even though we lost a SB to them, we don't really have a horse in this race. Objectively I look at this and have very little doubt that the pats didn't do anything illegal here.

Kraft wouldn't let BB talk candidly like that if there was something to hide or something that could come out. BB wouldn't look in the camera and say he's 100% innocent if there was even a smidgen of a chance the nfl was going to prove they did it. Brady and the pats wouldn't risk sure fire, warranted criticism if they were guilty. The cover up here would be 10 times worse then the crime, and as an impartial fan, these guys are much smarter then to put themselves in a position where they could be caught lying and the book thrown at them.

 

[the moops]

"As one league source has explained it to PFT, the football intercepted by Colts linebacker D’Qwell Jackson was roughly two pounds under the 12.5 PSI minimum. The other 10 balls that reportedly were two pounds under may have been, as the source explained it, closer to one pound below 12.5 PSI."

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/25/nfl-bears-plenty-of-blame-for-deflategate/

 

[General Tso]

After reading the Carnegie Mellon study, it's pretty clear that they did no such thing as replicate the game conditions. They wet rye balls and just let them sit therein a shelf in 50 degrees.

During the game, the balls were constantly dried off by both the refs and equipment managers. Only one ball at a time was exposed to the elements and it was constantly wiped down by the refs. The other 11 balls were kept nice and dry and warmer while that ball was on play. Further, the ball in play at any time was also constantly being handled by people gripping it, rubbing it, etc, so they would all have an effect on the external and internal temperature of the ball.

The way the balls were handled and treated during the game is so completely different than sitting wet on a shelf that their experiment is totally useless.

saying that they were playing with warm dry footballs during the game doesn't bolster the argument that the patriots gained an in-game advantage. quite the opposite actually

Huh? I didn't say the footballs magically repelled the water. Certainly the exteriors became wet and slippery when put into play. But having a layer of water on the outside of the football that is constantly wiped off is entirely different than being soaked in water and left to sit.

The HeadSmart video explains that 2 factors can decrease football PSI.

1) Colder temperature: This is generally accepted as true by most rational scientists. If you have scientific proof that colder temperature does *not* decrease football PSI, please let everyone know at once. Your "discovery" could win you the Nobel Prize because it would overturn the Ideal Gas Law.

2) Water: Leather will absorb some of the water and expand, which increases the volume of the football, but decrease the football PSI. HeadSmart soaked the ball 1x and let it sit there -- but water beads, so some parts of the football lose contact with water very quickly. Someone could argue that game conditions are even worse because the football is soaked repeatedly. Sure it is wiped off, but that means it is dry for a few seconds before it is wet again by the rain. The only way to prove or disprove which is worse, is with an experiment.

In any event, saying their experiment is "totally useless" is inaccurate. It absolutely proves again that cold temperature decreases PSI. Reasonable people can argue over how much PSI is lost from wet leather. But none of that proves that the Patriots deflated any balls.

If you really dispute the HeadSmart video, why don't you post a video of your own experiment and let us know the results?

But wait a minute, I've seen Bill Nye on ESPN 10 times today and his exact quote is, "the only way to REALLY decrease psi in a football is to use one of these"... To which he raises a needle.He's the science guy, right? He must be correct.

 

[Deamon]

Member name Posts shader 190 12punch 118 moleculo 115 Deamon 112 Run It Up 109 rockaction 101 General Tso 95 ROCKET 92 Dr. Octopus 90 Anarchy99 90 devouredbychaos 89

The bolded are all defending the Patriots like someone insulted their mother. But the "haters" are obsessed, trolling, etc.? Oh my.

Oh my that's embarrassing

Ya you can't be caught haha

 

[Dr. Octopus]

From what I can tell, there is no provision in the rules that each ball has to stay within spec the entire game. Only at the time of inspection 135 minutes before game time.

Why is the NFL even investigating then, since they clearly said the balls were within range and passed inspection in their statement?

That isn't meant to challenge you here, just seems odd. If they were with range and there's no requirement that they stay within rage, what's even going on?

 

[Run It Up]

Member name Posts shader 190 12punch 118 moleculo 115 Deamon 112 Run It Up 109 rockaction 101 General Tso 95 ROCKET 92 Dr. Octopus 90 Anarchy99 90 devouredbychaos 89

The bolded are all defending the Patriots like someone insulted their mother. But the "haters" are obsessed, trolling, etc.? Oh my.

Is this supposed to be some sort of scarlet letter?

Its a thread about the team we are fans of, being accused of cheating. Several future hall of famers being accused of lying.

In a thread of 4300 posts you're trying to paint Pat fans in a light over less than a quarter of the posts... this thread is literally half filled with people thinking the Pats should be dragged through glass and burned at the stake - over ####### nothing.

 

[Deamon]

After reading the Carnegie Mellon study, it's pretty clear that they did no such thing as replicate the game conditions. They wet rye balls and just let them sit therein a shelf in 50 degrees.

During the game, the balls were constantly dried off by both the refs and equipment managers. Only one ball at a time was exposed to the elements and it was constantly wiped down by the refs. The other 11 balls were kept nice and dry and warmer while that ball was on play. Further, the ball in play at any time was also constantly being handled by people gripping it, rubbing it, etc, so they would all have an effect on the external and internal temperature of the ball.

The way the balls were handled and treated during the game is so completely different than sitting wet on a shelf that their experiment is totally useless.

saying that they were playing with warm dry footballs during the game doesn't bolster the argument that the patriots gained an in-game advantage. quite the opposite actually

Huh? I didn't say the footballs magically repelled the water. Certainly the exteriors became wet and slippery when put into play. But having a layer of water on the outside of the football that is constantly wiped off is entirely different than being soaked in water and left to sit.

The HeadSmart video explains that 2 factors can decrease football PSI.

1) Colder temperature: This is generally accepted as true by most rational scientists. If you have scientific proof that colder temperature does *not* decrease football PSI, please let everyone know at once. Your "discovery" could win you the Nobel Prize because it would overturn the Ideal Gas Law.

2) Water: Leather will absorb some of the water and expand, which increases the volume of the football, but decrease the football PSI. HeadSmart soaked the ball 1x and let it sit there -- but water beads, so some parts of the football lose contact with water very quickly. Someone could argue that game conditions are even worse because the football is soaked repeatedly. Sure it is wiped off, but that means it is dry for a few seconds before it is wet again by the rain. The only way to prove or disprove which is worse, is with an experiment.

In any event, saying their experiment is "totally useless" is inaccurate. It absolutely proves again that cold temperature decreases PSI. Reasonable people can argue over how much PSI is lost from wet leather. But none of that proves that the Patriots deflated any balls.

If you really dispute the HeadSmart video, why don't you post a video of your own experiment and let us know the results?

But wait a minute, I've seen Bill Nye on ESPN 10 times today and his exact quote is, "the only way to REALLY decrease psi in a football is to use one of these"... To which he raises a needle.He's the science guy, right? He must be correct.

Plot Twist:

"ImTheScientist" is Bill Nye.

 

[12punch]

"As one league source has explained it to PFT, the football intercepted by Colts linebacker D’Qwell Jackson was roughly two pounds under the 12.5 PSI minimum. The other 10 balls that reportedly were two pounds under may have been, as the source explained it, closer to one pound below 12.5 PSI."

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/25/nfl-bears-plenty-of-blame-for-deflategate/

that's particularly interesting since that ball he picked off was a colts ball...................

JOHNNY U !!! U GOT SOME SPLAININ' TO DO!!!

####### CHEATERS!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Workhorse]

"As one league source has explained it to PFT, the football intercepted by Colts linebacker D’Qwell Jackson was roughly two pounds under the 12.5 PSI minimum. The other 10 balls that reportedly were two pounds under may have been, as the source explained it, closer to one pound below 12.5 PSI."

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/25/nfl-bears-plenty-of-blame-for-deflategate/

Ok, I've been saying for a while that the "sources" in this story have been laughably inconsistent throughout so I'm taking this with a boulder of salt. However, if this is true that many of the balls were down only ONE psi and the only ball that was near 2 psi below was the one submitted by the Colts, this story is OVER. Period.

 

[12punch]

After reading the Carnegie Mellon study, it's pretty clear that they did no such thing as replicate the game conditions. They wet rye balls and just let them sit therein a shelf in 50 degrees.

During the game, the balls were constantly dried off by both the refs and equipment managers. Only one ball at a time was exposed to the elements and it was constantly wiped down by the refs. The other 11 balls were kept nice and dry and warmer while that ball was on play. Further, the ball in play at any time was also constantly being handled by people gripping it, rubbing it, etc, so they would all have an effect on the external and internal temperature of the ball.

The way the balls were handled and treated during the game is so completely different than sitting wet on a shelf that their experiment is totally useless.

saying that they were playing with warm dry footballs during the game doesn't bolster the argument that the patriots gained an in-game advantage. quite the opposite actually

Huh? I didn't say the footballs magically repelled the water. Certainly the exteriors became wet and slippery when put into play. But having a layer of water on the outside of the football that is constantly wiped off is entirely different than being soaked in water and left to sit.

The HeadSmart video explains that 2 factors can decrease football PSI.

1) Colder temperature: This is generally accepted as true by most rational scientists. If you have scientific proof that colder temperature does *not* decrease football PSI, please let everyone know at once. Your "discovery" could win you the Nobel Prize because it would overturn the Ideal Gas Law.

2) Water: Leather will absorb some of the water and expand, which increases the volume of the football, but decrease the football PSI. HeadSmart soaked the ball 1x and let it sit there -- but water beads, so some parts of the football lose contact with water very quickly. Someone could argue that game conditions are even worse because the football is soaked repeatedly. Sure it is wiped off, but that means it is dry for a few seconds before it is wet again by the rain. The only way to prove or disprove which is worse, is with an experiment.

In any event, saying their experiment is "totally useless" is inaccurate. It absolutely proves again that cold temperature decreases PSI. Reasonable people can argue over how much PSI is lost from wet leather. But none of that proves that the Patriots deflated any balls.

If you really dispute the HeadSmart video, why don't you post a video of your own experiment and let us know the results?

But wait a minute, I've seen Bill Nye on ESPN 10 times today and his exact quote is, "the only way to REALLY decrease psi in a football is to use one of these"... To which he raises a needle.He's the science guy, right? He must be correct.

Plot Twist:

"ImTheScientist" is Bill Nye.

 

[Old Smiley]

"It’s always nice to hear your coach talk with that amount of passion and pride about our unit," Patriots receiver Julian Edelman relayed Sunday before the team's fourth practice.

Well, now things have gone too far. Balls, units...

 

[GoBirds]

Member name Posts shader 190 12punch 118 moleculo 115 Deamon 112 Run It Up 109 rockaction 101 General Tso 95 ROCKET 92 Dr. Octopus 90 Anarchy99 90 devouredbychaos 89

The bolded are all defending the Patriots like someone insulted their mother. But the "haters" are obsessed, trolling, etc.? Oh my.

Haha...stop hatin!

I'm a birds fan too.... and I know Tso has very skewed opinions on this, and on the dez thing. But even though we lost a SB to them, we don't really have a horse in this race. Objectively I look at this and have very little doubt that the pats didn't do anything illegal here. Kraft wouldn't let BB talk candidly like that if there was something to hide or something that could come out. BB wouldn't look in the camera and say he's 100% innocent if there was even a smidgen of a chance the nfl was going to prove they did it. Brady and the pats wouldn't risk sure fire, warranted criticism if they were guilty. The cover up here would be 10 times worse then the crime, and as an impartial fan, these guys are much smarter then to put themselves in a position where they could be caught lying and the book thrown at them.

I can see that as BB is a smart dude. I'm not as confident you are but definitely don't think it was a game altering issue and one way or another he feels he can cover his back end on this. Really need more facts to say for sure but it seems it's mostly media trying to catch them again.

 

[12punch]

LOL U PATS FANS GOTZ NEARLY AS MANY POSTS ABOUT THE PATS AS WE DOES!!!!!!!21324

/saltytroll

 

[General Tso]

"As one league source has explained it to PFT, the football intercepted by Colts linebacker DQwell Jackson was roughly two pounds under the 12.5 PSI minimum. The other 10 balls that reportedly were two pounds under may have been, as the source explained it, closer to one pound below 12.5 PSI."

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/25/nfl-bears-plenty-of-blame-for-deflategate/

WHAT????? 10 balls were within 1 psi of 12.5????? WTF?I'm so ####### pissed right now it's unbelievable. Tell me folks - where does one go to get his reputation back? Huh?

Goodell needs to shut this ####### monstrosity down on Monday morning. Then he needs to resign on Tuesday morning. Un-#######g-believable they would allow Brady and Belichik to be left twisting in the wind all week like that.

 

[Morton Muffley]

That's not what Belichick said. You probably need to go back and read it again.

"I believe now 100% that I have personally, and we as an organization, have absolutely followed every rule to the letter." - Bill Belichick That's all I need to hear.No way he makes this statement if there was any chance someone manipulated the ball after they were approved for play by NFL officials. The balls were likely slightly under inflated when they were approved for play. This would explain EVERYTHING.Not Cheating.

Exactly. The idiocy of the salty haters current arguments is mind boggling to me because it is clear that the argument should NOT be about "does weather cause psi drop?" (It does) or "why didn't the colts balls drop in psi?" (Maybe they did but stayed in range, maybe they didn't cuz they were prepped outside. Maybe they didn't because they were tampered with to keep them in range...so many possibilities and so little knowledge as to be irrelevant as either a control OR an argument).Rather the salty haters argument SHOULD be (and I suspect soon will be) that BB engaged in a practice that he knew would artificially increase the psi and that this is cheating OR it doesn't matter if he knew or not that the process would artificially increase the psi because ignorance is no excuse and therefore he submitted balls that were either under inflated OR artificially inflated.For the record I am in camp 1 but at least I could understand if someone was arguing intent.....what I can't understand is all the folks in here arguing the physics of weather impact using incomplete or entirely incorrect info. Again, the nfl investigation will run it's course so I am not saying the BB's claims are all I need. What I am saying is that he provide an emphatic and plausible explanation and that the burden of proof lies with the NFL now. And for the record, I felt differently prior to his pressed as it seemed to me that weather could not account for the entirety of the rumored drop in psi

Good post. I agree that very soon the salty haters will shift their argument away from post inspection tampering towards a focus on what the Patriots magically do in the preparation rituals. As if somehow the Pats are doing all their preparation stuff to cause balls to deflate during the game, rather than to improve the texture as Bill said is the focus.Be careful going down this road, unless you are full prepared to also look into what every other NFL team is doing. We know Peyton and Eli are fanatical about ball preparation, to the point that El Manning and the Giants apparently go through a process that spans many weeks and costs a lot of money.What's starting to really irk me about this whole sordid mess is the selective prosecution going on. It's analogous to me calling my local police department and asking them to investigate my neighbor for drug use because of an unsubstantiated rumor I heard. There's no grand jury before a huge trial is launched in the NFL. All you need is an allegation against a team that everyone is sick of. If you disagree, answer this question... Where was the investigation when the Panthers heated the balls on the sidelines, right on national television? Where was the investigation when Aaron Rodgers acknowledged that he and the Packers submit overinflated balls to the refs for pregame inspection hoping some would sneak by? There's no concept of fairness at all in the NFL anymore. None. It's all politics.

Agreed, this is starting to feel very much like a witch hunt. Unfortunately I think BB has himself to blame for it due to:

1. Arrogance in the way he treats the media (I love it, but many have been lying in wait for the moment he screws up)

2. General doosh-baggery in ignoring the very clear memo goodell sent regarding taping of signals (and his follow-on hair-splitting argument that he thought sideline video taping was only illegal if it wasn't used in-game)

3. Failure to set the record straight on spygate by explaining to dim-witted media folks/fans that it wasn't the video taping that was illegal it was the lack of an enclosed structure AROUND the video equip - and that the severity of the fine was thus due less to the advantage the videotaping provided but due to BB's arrogance and insubordination in continuing the practice of sideline videotaping