Patriots being investigated after Colts game (1 Viewer)

[ROCKET]

I think the NFL has nothing ,BB knows it and so do they. He basically said FU, bring it on and challenged them in his presser. If the league had anything they would have fired right back. They hate him and would have wallowed in the chance to go after him and debunk his story. Unless they come up with something new nothing is coming out of this.

 

[KingPrawn]

Michele Steele ‏@ESPNMichele ·

Words I didn't think I'd hear at the end of this NFL season: "bill nye the science guy not too popular with Pats fans right now"

Bill Nye the science guy not fond of Patriots balls

 

[ROCKET]

Bill Nye is an ABC, er ESPN employee. Nuff said.

 

[Old Smiley]

I don't pay much attention to the Bleacher Report, but they sure seem to be on a witch hunt here.

edit: ouch which/witch

 

[12punch]

All I know is that one team didn't have deflated balls and the other one did, end-of-story. I just wish the NFL would conclude their investigation and end it. The last 84 pages of posts in this thread are ridiculous.

 

[squistion]

If the league had anything they would have fired right back.

No, not if they haven't concluded their investigation yet.

 

[espnespn]

Michele Steele ‏@ESPNMichele ·

Words I didn't think I'd hear at the end of this NFL season: "bill nye the science guy not too popular with Pats fans right now"

As far as I can tell, Bill Nye lived and worked in Seattle for many years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Nye

So on one hand, we have scientists from Carnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh (who are probably not Patriots fans), who actually ran a study (on video) recreating the colder game-time weather conditions. Their study says that football PSI dropped an average of 1.8 PSI.

On the other hand, we have Bill Nye (a scientist with Seattle connections and a Seahawks fan), who did *NOT* run a study recreating the weather conditions, but he is disputing that colder weather will cause football PSI to drop?

I like Bill Nye in general, but it's obvious the Carnegie Mellon scientists are more credible here.

 

[Bossman]

I hear Eli Manning prefers his footballs on the soft side....

Shame we'll never get to see anything like this again.

https://espngrantland.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/odell-beckham.jpg?w=750

Thanks Irsay.

 

[Witz]

Michele Steele ‏@ESPNMichele ·

Words I didn't think I'd hear at the end of this NFL season: "bill nye the science guy not too popular with Pats fans right now"

As far as I can tell, Bill Nye lived and worked in Seattle for many years.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Nye

So on one hand, we have scientists from Carnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh (who are probably not Patriots fans), who actually ran a study (on video) recreating the colder game-time weather conditions. Their study says that football PSI dropped an average of 1.8 PSI.

On the other hand, we have Bill Nye (a scientist with Seattle connections and a Seahawks fan), who did *NOT* run a study recreating the weather conditions, but he is disputing that colder weather will cause football PSI to drop?

I like Bill Nye in general, but it's obvious the Carnegie Mellon scientists are more credible here.

It was noted earlier - the CM study can't be used to account for the 2 PSI drop in the Pats balls. It was an interesting study but in a discussion on apples, they did a study on oranges.

 

[ROCKET]

If the league had anything they would have fired right back.

No, not if they haven't concluded their investigation yet.

Yes they would with whatever damning evidence they had to this point. There would be another leak to Mort. We have heard nothing because they don't have anything.

 

[otello]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxsXFX3tDpg&app=desktop

http://www.headsmartlabs.com/#in-the-news

This video from Carnegie Mellon scientists shows how they did their study. "The study indicated that the pressure in the footballs used in the AFC Championship game could have dropped 1.95 PSI from weather and field conditions alone."

If Bill Nye or some other people recreate the same experiment and get different results, I'd be interested in seeing that.

Where does it say that this was a Carnegie Mellon study?

 

[squistion]

Michele Steele ‏@ESPNMichele ·

Words I didn't think I'd hear at the end of this NFL season: "bill nye the science guy not too popular with Pats fans right now"

As far as I can tell, Bill Nye lived and worked in Seattle for many years.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Nye

So on one hand, we have scientists from Carnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh (who are probably not Patriots fans), who actually ran a study (on video) recreating the colder game-time weather conditions. Their study says that football PSI dropped an average of 1.8 PSI.

On the other hand, we have Bill Nye (a scientist with Seattle connections and a Seahawks fan), who did *NOT* run a study recreating the weather conditions, but he is disputing that colder weather will cause football PSI to drop?

I like Bill Nye in general, but it's obvious the Carnegie Mellon scientists are more credible here.

So Nye lacks credibility because he has "Seattle connections". OKAY...

 

[KarmaPolice]

All I know is that one team didn't have deflated balls and the other one did, end-of-story. I just wish the NFL would conclude their investigation and end it. The last couple days of posts in this thread are ridiculous.

good grief man, nobody knows this yet. It was reported that the Colts balls were within legal limits at halftime, but nobody has given hard numbers as to what their balls started and ended at. Lets stop posting that only one teams balls deflated at all. Just silly.

 

[Bayhawks]

I'm not reading through all of the posts since BB's presser, but I have 3 questions:

BB said that the Pats "prepare" the ball supposedly by roughing them up, to Brady's liking. Then they give them to the refs and have them adjust the ball to 12.5 PSI. Tom Brady has said he likes the ball at 12.5 PSI. If the balls are prepared to Brady's liking, that would imply that they are inflated to 12.5 PSI. Why the need to then ask the refs to inflate them to 12.5 PSI? Shouldn't that already be the case?

Why were all the Colts balls within the official range, if the weather actually caused the change in PSI of the Pat's footballs?

Why didn't the 2nd half balls deflate, since the same "science" that BB refers to should have applied to them?

I understand that scientific tests can be repeated, but in this case, the tests already were repeated, during the 2nd half, and the control group (Colts footballs) and the 2nd test (2nd half) don't support the idea of atmospheric changes. As for the "internal study" that BB mentions (in which he failed to specify exactly what they did) would seem to be coming from a biased group of "scientists" since they obviously had something to gain by producing the result that they are reporting.

Go ask the colts.

It really doesn't matter. The few remaining ones left who are still confused because they didn't follow yesterday's events are likely wondering what happened.

But it's simple. Psi changes. BB proved that. Who cares about what the psi is for this and the psi is for that. That really wasn't his point. His point is that psi isn't an exact science, it changes based in a variety of factors, and the NFL has no business investigating psi during a game, as in cold weather games psi is likely to be far lower than it was when the officials measured it.

Ask the Colts? It doesn't matter? PSI changes, BB proved that?

Seriously?

BB just said according to what we did (and I won't tell you exactly what we did), the PSI will change. But we should ignore the fact that the Colt's balls didn't change (at least, not by the same amount, as they remained in the legal range when re-inspected). We should also ignore the fact that when the balls were replaced in the 2nd half, the PSI didn't change (again, at least not enough to become "illegal").

So what did BB prove? That he could say (without actually showing any evidence) that the change in PSI in their 1st half footballs was due to the weather, but the PSI of the Colt's footballs and the Pats 2nd half footballs didn't have the same weather influences?

Sure it's possible for the PSI of a football to change due to weather, but the fact that only the balls that the Pats used in the first half experienced this change is what still has not been explained.

 

[espnespn]

Michele Steele ‏@ESPNMichele ·

Words I didn't think I'd hear at the end of this NFL season: "bill nye the science guy not too popular with Pats fans right now"

As far as I can tell, Bill Nye lived and worked in Seattle for many years.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Nye

So on one hand, we have scientists from Carnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh (who are probably not Patriots fans), who actually ran a study (on video) recreating the colder game-time weather conditions. Their study says that football PSI dropped an average of 1.8 PSI.

On the other hand, we have Bill Nye (a scientist with Seattle connections and a Seahawks fan), who did *NOT* run a study recreating the weather conditions, but he is disputing that colder weather will cause football PSI to drop?

I like Bill Nye in general, but it's obvious the Carnegie Mellon scientists are more credible here.

So Nye lacks credibility because he has "Seattle connections". OKAY...

He lacks credibility because he didn't even run the same study, but he disputes something he never tested.

Do you have any scientific proof that contradicts the HeadSmart study findings?

 

[JohnnyU]

I'm not reading through all of the posts since BB's presser, but I have 3 questions:

BB said that the Pats "prepare" the ball supposedly by roughing them up, to Brady's liking. Then they give them to the refs and have them adjust the ball to 12.5 PSI. Tom Brady has said he likes the ball at 12.5 PSI. If the balls are prepared to Brady's liking, that would imply that they are inflated to 12.5 PSI. Why the need to then ask the refs to inflate them to 12.5 PSI? Shouldn't that already be the case?

Why were all the Colts balls within the official range, if the weather actually caused the change in PSI of the Pat's footballs?

Why didn't the 2nd half balls deflate, since the same "science" that BB refers to should have applied to them?

I understand that scientific tests can be repeated, but in this case, the tests already were repeated, during the 2nd half, and the control group (Colts footballs) and the 2nd test (2nd half) don't support the idea of atmospheric changes. As for the "internal study" that BB mentions (in which he failed to specify exactly what they did) would seem to be coming from a biased group of "scientists" since they obviously had something to gain by producing the result that they are reporting.

Go ask the colts.

It really doesn't matter. The few remaining ones left who are still confused because they didn't follow yesterday's events are likely wondering what happened.

But it's simple. Psi changes. BB proved that. Who cares about what the psi is for this and the psi is for that. That really wasn't his point. His point is that psi isn't an exact science, it changes based in a variety of factors, and the NFL has no business investigating psi during a game, as in cold weather games psi is likely to be far lower than it was when the officials measured it.

Ask the Colts? It doesn't matter? PSI changes, BB proved that?

Seriously?

BB just said according to what we did (and I won't tell you exactly what we did), the PSI will change. But we should ignore the fact that the Colt's balls didn't change (at least, not by the same amount, as they remained in the legal range when re-inspected). We should also ignore the fact that when the balls were replaced in the 2nd half, the PSI didn't change (again, at least not enough to become "illegal").

So what did BB prove? That he could say (without actually showing any evidence) that the change in PSI in their 1st half footballs was due to the weather, but the PSI of the Colt's footballs and the Pats 2nd half footballs didn't have the same weather influences?

Sure it's possible for the PSI of a football to change due to weather, but the fact that only the balls that the Pats used in the first half experienced this change is what still has not been explained.

Why do folks keep ignoring this?

 

[squistion]

If the league had anything they would have fired right back.

No, not if they haven't concluded their investigation yet.

Yes they would with whatever damning evidence they had to this point. There would be another leak to Mort. We have heard nothing because they don't have anything.

Puleeze, they would not release the results of an incomplete investigation right before the Super Bowl.

 

[Deamon]

OverInflateGate:

If league statements and leaks are to be believed (big if), the Colts went into the AFC Championship concerned about ball pressure, spoke to the refs about it, and the refs measured both teams balls pre-game with a gauge. This happened in the ref's locker room, which I'd assume is kept at around 70 degrees.

How is it possible that the Colt's balls didn't lose pressure due to the at least 20 and as much as 40 degree temperature drop over more than 3 hours?

Nobody is disputing that pressure drops as temperature drops. Science and whatnot. And over the more than 3 hour game I don't believe there's any question that the balls would have reached equalibrium with the outside temperature.

Regardless of what did or didn't happen with the Patriots' balls, it is simply not possible that the Colts balls did not change pressure from early afternoon in a 70 degree room until early evening in a 40ish degree wet outdoors without some outside influence - what we can call "tampering".

It must be the case that either the refs did not measure pregame, and/or halftime, and/or postgame (meaning the NFL is lying) and/or the Colts, knowing they were making an issue about this, did something to counter the natural and inevitable effects of colder temperature, such as pre-inflate with cold air or inflate the balls during the game.

We have to ask why the NFL wouldn't be investigating the Colts now, knowing that their balls somehow escaped the laws of physics at the exact same time they knew they'd be accusing the Pats of wrongdoing.

The simplest explanation would be that the refs didn't really do a precise measurement before, during, or after the game. This seems to be confirmed by former refs and ballboys who say a casual squeeze was usually the inspection method of choice.

On the other hand, the Colts are not first-time offenders in trying to gain a competitive advantage by toeing the line, crossing it, or even trying to have it moved. For example, pumping in crowd noise in an attempt to artificially and illegally assist the Colts defense by making it harder for opposing offenses to communicate. Or, for example, whining to have pass-defense rules changed when they couldn't beat the best teams in the league under then current rules. Or, for example, manipulating the competitiveness of an entire league season by purposely losing in a shameless (yet successful) effort to win Andrew Luck, the media's heir-apparent to Peyton Manning and Tom Brady.

We should also recognize that the Colts' owner is a drug addled convict with such bad judgment that he would risk other people's lives driving on pain meds - an offense so serious that the league fined him $500,000 and suspended him for six games (a punishment harsher even than that sustained by Bill Belichick for Spygate). If he'd willingly risk killing others for drugs, he probably wouldn't be above tampering with footballs. Irsay's judgment, honesty, and motive are susceptible to question.

Given that sordid history we could be excused for assuming the Colts are up to something and demanding that they them prove their own innocence.

Yet, the NFL isn't above suspicion either. The NFL is the very league that allowed the Colts to engage in the various illegal shenanigans detailed above, that changed it's own rules to benefit the Colts' former golden boy (Manning), and watched happily as they tanked to earn the league's new golden boy (Luck). The NFL is the league that has pushed the media story of the "passing of the torch" from Manning and Brady to Luck, most intensely during the current playoffs.

And, the league certainly is no fan of the Patriots or Belichick. The league fined Belichick a record amount for a cameraman standing in the wrong place - out in the open rather than in an enclosed area - when filming another team's defensive signals. The league allowed the Patriots to dangle in the wind as that story grew out-of-control and the Pats were falsely of taping another team's walkthrough - despite a thorough investigation proving this not to be the case. And now, too, the league has allowed the allegations against the Pats to stand by dragging its feet on the "investigation" of how balls might deflate during a temperature drop - despite the league not caring in the least what the pressure is in a football, so long as it's stars - the quarterbacks - are happy.

The league also has suffered it's own self-inflicted PR wounds recently due to the mis-handling of serious incidents such as WhipSon-Gate, KillDog-Gate, and Knockthe#####OutInElevator-Gate, to name just a few. Certainly it would be in the league's interest to focus come down hard on the team fans love to hate for a perceived minor rule infraction.

Which leads to another question - could it be that the NFL allowed it's own agenda of "catching" the Patriots to hurt the purity of the AFC Championship? Could it be that the league instructed it's refs to force the Colts to play with artificially over-inflated balls? Could the league have tampered with the Colt's balls, re-inflating them for the second half instead of letting them acclimate to the cold air and deflate as naturally happens in every other cold weather game in league history?

The Patriots are the only party involved in this controversy that has openly addressed the matter, agreed to fully cooperate with others, and layed their cards on the table. It's time for the Colts and the NFL to come clean.

Over/Under on # of people who actually read every word of this. You gotta shorten that #### if you want people to read.

 

[Bayhawks]

All I know is that one team didn't have deflated balls and the other one did, end-of-story. I just wish the NFL would conclude their investigation and end it. The last couple days of posts in this thread are ridiculous.

good grief man, nobody knows this yet. It was reported that the Colts balls were within legal limits at halftime, but nobody has given hard numbers as to what their balls started and ended at. Lets stop posting that only one teams balls deflated at all. Just silly.

Only one teams balls did deflate, to the point that they became illegal. Even if the Colts balls were at the upper end of the legal range, if they had deflated to the same degree as the Pat's balls did, they would have become illegal (13.5 PSI minus 1.5 PSI as per BB's "science"=12.0 PSI). Yet the Colts balls were "legal" at all 3 inspections.

 

[Bossman]

So you are doubting the Patriots beating up the ball prior to inspection could raise the psi by 1LB?

I know that if I were the one in charge of roughing up 24 footballs, I wouldn't be doing it by hand, I would be using a tool like this:

http://drillbrush.net/images/2-4r-and-5-inch-nylon-drill-brushes.jpg

Not cheating.

Michele Steele ‏@ESPNMichele ·

Words I didn't think I'd hear at the end of this NFL season: "bill nye the science guy not too popular with Pats fans right now"

I doubt Bill Nye took into account the extreme measures that clubs go thru to rough up the football.

Yeah, I agree that rubbing the ball by hand would not have any effect on psi. Tools would be required. (see my quoted post above).

It is within the rules to use tools / equipment to prep the footballs. Not cheating.

 

[12punch]

I'm not reading through all of the posts since BB's presser, but I have 3 questions:

BB said that the Pats "prepare" the ball supposedly by roughing them up, to Brady's liking. Then they give them to the refs and have them adjust the ball to 12.5 PSI. Tom Brady has said he likes the ball at 12.5 PSI. If the balls are prepared to Brady's liking, that would imply that they are inflated to 12.5 PSI. Why the need to then ask the refs to inflate them to 12.5 PSI? Shouldn't that already be the case?

Why were all the Colts balls within the official range, if the weather actually caused the change in PSI of the Pat's footballs?

Why didn't the 2nd half balls deflate, since the same "science" that BB refers to should have applied to them?

I understand that scientific tests can be repeated, but in this case, the tests already were repeated, during the 2nd half, and the control group (Colts footballs) and the 2nd test (2nd half) don't support the idea of atmospheric changes. As for the "internal study" that BB mentions (in which he failed to specify exactly what they did) would seem to be coming from a biased group of "scientists" since they obviously had something to gain by producing the result that they are reporting.

Go ask the colts.

It really doesn't matter. The few remaining ones left who are still confused because they didn't follow yesterday's events are likely wondering what happened.

But it's simple. Psi changes. BB proved that. Who cares about what the psi is for this and the psi is for that. That really wasn't his point. His point is that psi isn't an exact science, it changes based in a variety of factors, and the NFL has no business investigating psi during a game, as in cold weather games psi is likely to be far lower than it was when the officials measured it.

Ask the Colts? It doesn't matter? PSI changes, BB proved that?

Seriously?

BB just said according to what we did (and I won't tell you exactly what we did), the PSI will change. But we should ignore the fact that the Colt's balls didn't change (at least, not by the same amount, as they remained in the legal range when re-inspected). We should also ignore the fact that when the balls were replaced in the 2nd half, the PSI didn't change (again, at least not enough to become "illegal").

So what did BB prove? That he could say (without actually showing any evidence) that the change in PSI in their 1st half footballs was due to the weather, but the PSI of the Colt's footballs and the Pats 2nd half footballs didn't have the same weather influences?

Sure it's possible for the PSI of a football to change due to weather, but the fact that only the balls that the Pats used in the first half experienced this change is what still has not been explained.

Why do folks keep ignoring this?

because it's irrelevant --- much like the entire subject and your repeated posting?

 

[JohnnyU]

I'm not reading through all of the posts since BB's presser, but I have 3 questions:

BB said that the Pats "prepare" the ball supposedly by roughing them up, to Brady's liking. Then they give them to the refs and have them adjust the ball to 12.5 PSI. Tom Brady has said he likes the ball at 12.5 PSI. If the balls are prepared to Brady's liking, that would imply that they are inflated to 12.5 PSI. Why the need to then ask the refs to inflate them to 12.5 PSI? Shouldn't that already be the case?

Why were all the Colts balls within the official range, if the weather actually caused the change in PSI of the Pat's footballs?

Why didn't the 2nd half balls deflate, since the same "science" that BB refers to should have applied to them?

I understand that scientific tests can be repeated, but in this case, the tests already were repeated, during the 2nd half, and the control group (Colts footballs) and the 2nd test (2nd half) don't support the idea of atmospheric changes. As for the "internal study" that BB mentions (in which he failed to specify exactly what they did) would seem to be coming from a biased group of "scientists" since they obviously had something to gain by producing the result that they are reporting.

Go ask the colts.

It really doesn't matter. The few remaining ones left who are still confused because they didn't follow yesterday's events are likely wondering what happened.

But it's simple. Psi changes. BB proved that. Who cares about what the psi is for this and the psi is for that. That really wasn't his point. His point is that psi isn't an exact science, it changes based in a variety of factors, and the NFL has no business investigating psi during a game, as in cold weather games psi is likely to be far lower than it was when the officials measured it.

Ask the Colts? It doesn't matter? PSI changes, BB proved that?

Seriously?

BB just said according to what we did (and I won't tell you exactly what we did), the PSI will change. But we should ignore the fact that the Colt's balls didn't change (at least, not by the same amount, as they remained in the legal range when re-inspected). We should also ignore the fact that when the balls were replaced in the 2nd half, the PSI didn't change (again, at least not enough to become "illegal").

So what did BB prove? That he could say (without actually showing any evidence) that the change in PSI in their 1st half footballs was due to the weather, but the PSI of the Colt's footballs and the Pats 2nd half footballs didn't have the same weather influences?

Sure it's possible for the PSI of a football to change due to weather, but the fact that only the balls that the Pats used in the first half experienced this change is what still has not been explained.

Why do folks keep ignoring this?

because it's irrelevant --- much like the entire subject and your repeated posting?

don't be a tool. Of course it's relevant to ask why the Colts balls were not deflated but the Pats were.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

I think the NFL has nothing ,BB knows it and so do they. He basically said FU, bring it on and challenged them in his presser. If the league had anything they would have fired right back. They hate him and would have wallowed in the chance to go after him and debunk his story. Unless they come up with something new nothing is coming out of this.

I was unaware of the perception that the NFL hates BB. Why do you suppose that is? He coaches one of the best teams in NFL history, is one of the most recognizable faces in the league and on the surface, should be a great commodity for the NFL. Why would they hate him? Are they all salty Patriot haters? Serious question - not being sarcastic. Maybe just a little, but the spirit of the question is legit. Why do you think the NFL hates him?

 

[Bayhawks]

I'm not reading through all of the posts since BB's presser, but I have 3 questions:

BB said that the Pats "prepare" the ball supposedly by roughing them up, to Brady's liking. Then they give them to the refs and have them adjust the ball to 12.5 PSI. Tom Brady has said he likes the ball at 12.5 PSI. If the balls are prepared to Brady's liking, that would imply that they are inflated to 12.5 PSI. Why the need to then ask the refs to inflate them to 12.5 PSI? Shouldn't that already be the case?

Why were all the Colts balls within the official range, if the weather actually caused the change in PSI of the Pat's footballs?

Why didn't the 2nd half balls deflate, since the same "science" that BB refers to should have applied to them?

I understand that scientific tests can be repeated, but in this case, the tests already were repeated, during the 2nd half, and the control group (Colts footballs) and the 2nd test (2nd half) don't support the idea of atmospheric changes. As for the "internal study" that BB mentions (in which he failed to specify exactly what they did) would seem to be coming from a biased group of "scientists" since they obviously had something to gain by producing the result that they are reporting.

Go ask the colts.

It really doesn't matter. The few remaining ones left who are still confused because they didn't follow yesterday's events are likely wondering what happened.

But it's simple. Psi changes. BB proved that. Who cares about what the psi is for this and the psi is for that. That really wasn't his point. His point is that psi isn't an exact science, it changes based in a variety of factors, and the NFL has no business investigating psi during a game, as in cold weather games psi is likely to be far lower than it was when the officials measured it.

Ask the Colts? It doesn't matter? PSI changes, BB proved that?

Seriously?

BB just said according to what we did (and I won't tell you exactly what we did), the PSI will change. But we should ignore the fact that the Colt's balls didn't change (at least, not by the same amount, as they remained in the legal range when re-inspected). We should also ignore the fact that when the balls were replaced in the 2nd half, the PSI didn't change (again, at least not enough to become "illegal").

So what did BB prove? That he could say (without actually showing any evidence) that the change in PSI in their 1st half footballs was due to the weather, but the PSI of the Colt's footballs and the Pats 2nd half footballs didn't have the same weather influences?

Sure it's possible for the PSI of a football to change due to weather, but the fact that only the balls that the Pats used in the first half experienced this change is what still has not been explained.

Why do folks keep ignoring this?

because it's irrelevant --- much like the entire subject and your repeated posting?

It's not irrelevant, in fact, it is the entire point of this "controversy."

If both team's footballs experienced the same deflation, then the answer "the weather caused the change" would be THE ANSWER. Since it didn't, and then in the 2nd half, neither team's footballs deflated to the point of becoming illegal, something was different about the Patriot's balls in the 1st half.

Unless, you want us to believe that an organization like the Patriots, who are meticulous about many things, would decide that the preparation of the game balls for their AFC championship game wasn't important enough to "prepare" all 24 of their game balls, only 11 or 12?

 

[Anarchy99]

Let's update what we know for certain. The NFL is investigating why the Patriots footballs were under inflated in the AFC championship game. The patriots deny any wrong doing.

And in their denial of wrongdoing, the Pats have said they did their own study.

That's about it.

 

[espnespn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxsXFX3tDpg&app=desktop

http://www.headsmartlabs.com/#in-the-news

This video from Carnegie Mellon scientists shows how they did their study. "The study indicated that the pressure in the footballs used in the AFC Championship game could have dropped 1.95 PSI from weather and field conditions alone."

If Bill Nye or some other people recreate the same experiment and get different results, I'd be interested in seeing that.

Where does it say that this was a Carnegie Mellon study?

http://www.headsmartlabs.com/#research-team

According to their website, the people there are from Carnegie Mellon and University of Pittsburgh Medical Center.

 

[Deamon]

I would think that a lot of teams have to be a little crabby with the Colts right now. In light of this I would imagine something is going to change as far as the process of the footballs.

Where does the details on equipment stop? I think I want to make sure that Beast Mode's cleats aren't 1mm off, causing him to have slightly better footing, causing him to be the rb he has been for years. I also might want to check the stickiness of every single WR glove to make sure they are exactly within range too. Hope no shoulder pads are slightly lighter so somebody can run faster! Where are the rules for all of this, it could get fun.

that is a good point many aren't talking about. Where does this lead? Spygate lead to teams not taping signals anymore (yes others were doing it at the time)... bountygate probably stopped or changed bounties on players around the league. This is going to have an effect on what qbs can do to prep their balls for play and I bet a lot of qbs get ticked off for this.

 

[Old Smiley]

If you guys have ever worked on a farm, maybe you've seen chicken plucker. It's like a rotating drum with all these nipples or teats on it and you hold the chicken to it and the feathers come off. I thought of it when Bill was talking about the Pats rubbing process.

Even if it's not that, we'd be talking about balls AND nipples and teats.

So great.

 

[Deamon]

So let me see if I have the NFL's stance correct. Tom Brady,or any qb for that matter,can rub his balls before a game until they "feel right",as long as those balls don't under or over inflate too much. But if Marshawn Lynch,or any other player for that matter,rubs his balls DURING a game,it's an automatic fine. Does that sound about right? <_<

Best post of thread.

There's been so many ball-rubbing puns that I'm desensitized to them now.

 

[General Tso]

Bill Nye is an ABC, er ESPN employee. Nuff said.

Bill Nye lives in the Seattle area, is a Seahawks fan, and ended the segment saying "Go Hawks". Nuff said.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

Bill Nye is an ABC, er ESPN employee. Nuff said.

Bill Nye lives in the Seattle area, is a Seahawks fan, and ended the segment saying "Go Hawks". Nuff said.

Ahh, I see. So should we also disregard the opinions of any Patriot fans, in addition to those presented by actual scientists?

 

[Flying Elvis]

Has anyone running the studies or algorithms considered the effects of Gronking? That seems like an important variable.

 

[Old Smiley]

Bill Nye is an ABC, er ESPN employee. Nuff said.

Bill Nye lives in the Seattle area, is a Seahawks fan, and ended the segment saying "Go Hawks". Nuff said.

Ahh, I see. So should we also disregard the opinions of any Patriot fans, in addition to those presented by actual scientists?

The thing is to not believe people just because of who they are. Argument from authority, I think it's called.

 

[JaxBill]

Ralph Vacchiano ‏@RVacchianoNYDN 1m1 minute ago

Lawrence Tynes on MSNBC on whether Bill Belichick's explanation makes any sense: "Not to me. Not at all."

 

[General Tso]

Another report, this time from a much more reliable source, indicating that the refs and their inspection routines are now the focus of the NFL investigation. And before anyone chimes in to criticize this source, do your research first. These guys are actually very good and have a great track record for being accurate.

@SharksOfVegas

BREAKING -Source CONFIRMS NFL Investigation is more about the officials than the Patriots.

12:35pm - 25 Jan 15

Supports the theory I've been presenting right along... That the refs did not use gauges for the pre-game inspection, but only did so after the Colts complained in the first half.

 

[mbuehner]

I'm not reading through all of the posts since BB's presser, but I have 3 questions:

BB said that the Pats "prepare" the ball supposedly by roughing them up, to Brady's liking. Then they give them to the refs and have them adjust the ball to 12.5 PSI. Tom Brady has said he likes the ball at 12.5 PSI. If the balls are prepared to Brady's liking, that would imply that they are inflated to 12.5 PSI. Why the need to then ask the refs to inflate them to 12.5 PSI? Shouldn't that already be the case?

Why were all the Colts balls within the official range, if the weather actually caused the change in PSI of the Pat's footballs?

Why didn't the 2nd half balls deflate, since the same "science" that BB refers to should have applied to them?

I understand that scientific tests can be repeated, but in this case, the tests already were repeated, during the 2nd half, and the control group (Colts footballs) and the 2nd test (2nd half) don't support the idea of atmospheric changes. As for the "internal study" that BB mentions (in which he failed to specify exactly what they did) would seem to be coming from a biased group of "scientists" since they obviously had something to gain by producing the result that they are reporting.

Go ask the colts.It really doesn't matter. The few remaining ones left who are still confused because they didn't follow yesterday's events are likely wondering what happened.

But it's simple. Psi changes. BB proved that. Who cares about what the psi is for this and the psi is for that. That really wasn't his point. His point is that psi isn't an exact science, it changes based in a variety of factors, and the NFL has no business investigating psi during a game, as in cold weather games psi is likely to be far lower than it was when the officials measured it.

Ask the Colts? It doesn't matter? PSI changes, BB proved that?Seriously?

BB just said according to what we did (and I won't tell you exactly what we did), the PSI will change. But we should ignore the fact that the Colt's balls didn't change (at least, not by the same amount, as they remained in the legal range when re-inspected). We should also ignore the fact that when the balls were replaced in the 2nd half, the PSI didn't change (again, at least not enough to become "illegal").

So what did BB prove? That he could say (without actually showing any evidence) that the change in PSI in their 1st half footballs was due to the weather, but the PSI of the Colt's footballs and the Pats 2nd half footballs didn't have the same weather influences?

Sure it's possible for the PSI of a football to change due to weather, but the fact that only the balls that the Pats used in the first half experienced this change is what still has not been explained.

Why do folks keep ignoring this?

because it's irrelevant --- much like the entire subject and your repeated posting?

It's not irrelevant, in fact, it is the entire point of this "controversy."If both team's footballs experienced the same deflation, then the answer "the weather caused the change" would be THE ANSWER. Since it didn't, and then in the 2nd half, neither team's footballs deflated to the point of becoming illegal, something was different about the Patriot's balls in the 1st half.

Unless, you want us to believe that an organization like the Patriots, who are meticulous about many things, would decide that the preparation of the game balls for their AFC championship game wasn't important enough to "prepare" all 24 of their game balls, only 11 or 12?

Where were the backups stored? Where were they remeasured? When?

Oh, you dont know? Neither do we.

 

[General Tso]

Bill Nye is an ABC, er ESPN employee. Nuff said.

Bill Nye lives in the Seattle area, is a Seahawks fan, and ended the segment saying "Go Hawks". Nuff said.

Ahh, I see. So should we also disregard the opinions of any Patriot fans, in addition to those presented by actual scientists?

I think it's pretty obvious that Nye's segment was heavily edited by ESPN to cause a stir. Nowhere in that segment does NYe support or refute Belichik's main thesis (that is ow also supported by many others in the science community, including the Carnegie Mellon report we keep linking to in here) that atmospheric conditions alone could reduce the psi in a ball up to 1.9 psi.I have no problem with people having a predisposition, but at least address the facts.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

That's not what Belichick said. You probably need to go back and read it again.

 

[Deamon]

Ralph Vacchiano ‏@RVacchianoNYDN 1m1 minute ago

Lawr​ence Tynes on MSNBC on whether Bill Belichick's explanation makes any sense: "Not to me. Not at all."

Not sure which of the two make this funnier. Two wrongs make a right.... right?

 

[AB in DC]

Sure it's possible for the PSI of a football to change due to weather, but the fact that only the balls that the Pats used in the first half experienced this change is what still has not been explained.

Why do folks keep ignoring this?

Because it's not true.

Or at least, we don't know if it's true.

 

[squistion]

Sure it's possible for the PSI of a football to change due to weather, but the fact that only the balls that the Pats used in the first half experienced this change is what still has not been explained.

Why do folks keep ignoring this?

It is the proverbial elephant in the room that people keep pointing to and the response is always "What elephant?" The stock answers seem to be along the lines "Ask the Colts" or "Who cares?" But, it is not irrelevant and a major question that has to be answered if people expect the public to move on from this.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

What he said was that the Patriots heated the air in the ball immediately prior to giving them to the refs, such that the PSI were about a pound high at that point. Then they instructed the refs to inflate them to the minumum required (12.5 PSI). And afterward, when the footballs cooled from the stimulation the Pats applied, the balls lost a pound of PSI. And lost another .5 PSI when they were taken outside.

Even that doesn't account for the (reported) two pounds of lost PSI, though.

 

[KarmaPolice]

All I know is that one team didn't have deflated balls and the other one did, end-of-story. I just wish the NFL would conclude their investigation and end it. The last couple days of posts in this thread are ridiculous.

good grief man, nobody knows this yet. It was reported that the Colts balls were within legal limits at halftime, but nobody has given hard numbers as to what their balls started and ended at. Lets stop posting that only one teams balls deflated at all. Just silly.

Only one teams balls did deflate, to the point that they became illegal. Even if the Colts balls were at the upper end of the legal range, if they had deflated to the same degree as the Pat's balls did, they would have become illegal (13.5 PSI minus 1.5 PSI as per BB's "science"=12.0 PSI). Yet the Colts balls were "legal" at all 3 inspections.

AGAIN... we have zero clue what the colts process is and what they started at. Bill claimed part of the drop in psi is due to their process, ok, how does that differ from the colts?

People are talking aa though only one teams dropped even a fraction of a psi.

 

[12punch]

I'm not reading through all of the posts since BB's presser, but I have 3 questions:

BB said that the Pats "prepare" the ball supposedly by roughing them up, to Brady's liking. Then they give them to the refs and have them adjust the ball to 12.5 PSI. Tom Brady has said he likes the ball at 12.5 PSI. If the balls are prepared to Brady's liking, that would imply that they are inflated to 12.5 PSI. Why the need to then ask the refs to inflate them to 12.5 PSI? Shouldn't that already be the case?

Why were all the Colts balls within the official range, if the weather actually caused the change in PSI of the Pat's footballs?

Why didn't the 2nd half balls deflate, since the same "science" that BB refers to should have applied to them?

I understand that scientific tests can be repeated, but in this case, the tests already were repeated, during the 2nd half, and the control group (Colts footballs) and the 2nd test (2nd half) don't support the idea of atmospheric changes. As for the "internal study" that BB mentions (in which he failed to specify exactly what they did) would seem to be coming from a biased group of "scientists" since they obviously had something to gain by producing the result that they are reporting.

Go ask the colts.

It really doesn't matter. The few remaining ones left who are still confused because they didn't follow yesterday's events are likely wondering what happened.

But it's simple. Psi changes. BB proved that. Who cares about what the psi is for this and the psi is for that. That really wasn't his point. His point is that psi isn't an exact science, it changes based in a variety of factors, and the NFL has no business investigating psi during a game, as in cold weather games psi is likely to be far lower than it was when the officials measured it.

Ask the Colts? It doesn't matter? PSI changes, BB proved that?

Seriously?

BB just said according to what we did (and I won't tell you exactly what we did), the PSI will change. But we should ignore the fact that the Colt's balls didn't change (at least, not by the same amount, as they remained in the legal range when re-inspected). We should also ignore the fact that when the balls were replaced in the 2nd half, the PSI didn't change (again, at least not enough to become "illegal").

So what did BB prove? That he could say (without actually showing any evidence) that the change in PSI in their 1st half footballs was due to the weather, but the PSI of the Colt's footballs and the Pats 2nd half footballs didn't have the same weather influences?

Sure it's possible for the PSI of a football to change due to weather, but the fact that only the balls that the Pats used in the first half experienced this change is what still has not been explained.

Why do folks keep ignoring this?

because it's irrelevant --- much like the entire subject and your repeated posting?

It's not irrelevant, in fact, it is the entire point of this "controversy."

If both team's footballs experienced the same deflation, then the answer "the weather caused the change" would be THE ANSWER. Since it didn't, and then in the 2nd half, neither team's footballs deflated to the point of becoming illegal, something was different about the Patriot's balls in the 1st half.

Unless, you want us to believe that an organization like the Patriots, who are meticulous about many things, would decide that the preparation of the game balls for their AFC championship game wasn't important enough to "prepare" all 24 of their game balls, only 11 or 12?

are you trying to troll pats fans or everyone living in the 21st century?

it's entirely irrelevant because despite what you might want to believe, the world is not flat, it doesn't rain because the clouds are angry at you, you don't get aids because god gave it to you -- unless maybe he has aids and raped you, and the laws of thermodynamics exist no matter how hard you pray for the pats to lose.

were you home schooled, by any chance?

 

[Bayhawks]

I'm not reading through all of the posts since BB's presser, but I have 3 questions:

BB said that the Pats "prepare" the ball supposedly by roughing them up, to Brady's liking. Then they give them to the refs and have them adjust the ball to 12.5 PSI. Tom Brady has said he likes the ball at 12.5 PSI. If the balls are prepared to Brady's liking, that would imply that they are inflated to 12.5 PSI. Why the need to then ask the refs to inflate them to 12.5 PSI? Shouldn't that already be the case?

Why were all the Colts balls within the official range, if the weather actually caused the change in PSI of the Pat's footballs?

Why didn't the 2nd half balls deflate, since the same "science" that BB refers to should have applied to them?

I understand that scientific tests can be repeated, but in this case, the tests already were repeated, during the 2nd half, and the control group (Colts footballs) and the 2nd test (2nd half) don't support the idea of atmospheric changes. As for the "internal study" that BB mentions (in which he failed to specify exactly what they did) would seem to be coming from a biased group of "scientists" since they obviously had something to gain by producing the result that they are reporting.

Go ask the colts.It really doesn't matter. The few remaining ones left who are still confused because they didn't follow yesterday's events are likely wondering what happened.

But it's simple. Psi changes. BB proved that. Who cares about what the psi is for this and the psi is for that. That really wasn't his point. His point is that psi isn't an exact science, it changes based in a variety of factors, and the NFL has no business investigating psi during a game, as in cold weather games psi is likely to be far lower than it was when the officials measured it.

Ask the Colts? It doesn't matter? PSI changes, BB proved that?Seriously?

BB just said according to what we did (and I won't tell you exactly what we did), the PSI will change. But we should ignore the fact that the Colt's balls didn't change (at least, not by the same amount, as they remained in the legal range when re-inspected). We should also ignore the fact that when the balls were replaced in the 2nd half, the PSI didn't change (again, at least not enough to become "illegal").

So what did BB prove? That he could say (without actually showing any evidence) that the change in PSI in their 1st half footballs was due to the weather, but the PSI of the Colt's footballs and the Pats 2nd half footballs didn't have the same weather influences?

Sure it's possible for the PSI of a football to change due to weather, but the fact that only the balls that the Pats used in the first half experienced this change is what still has not been explained.

Why do folks keep ignoring this?

because it's irrelevant --- much like the entire subject and your repeated posting?

It's not irrelevant, in fact, it is the entire point of this "controversy."If both team's footballs experienced the same deflation, then the answer "the weather caused the change" would be THE ANSWER. Since it didn't, and then in the 2nd half, neither team's footballs deflated to the point of becoming illegal, something was different about the Patriot's balls in the 1st half.

Unless, you want us to believe that an organization like the Patriots, who are meticulous about many things, would decide that the preparation of the game balls for their AFC championship game wasn't important enough to "prepare" all 24 of their game balls, only 11 or 12?

Where were the backups stored? Where were they remeasured? When?

Oh, you dont know? Neither do we.

As I've posted before, a little common sense goes a long way.

Common sense says the backup balls would be on the field, since you don't want to have to pause the game to run back into the locker room to get backup footballs, if that were necessary.

Common sense also says the balls were remeasured in the locker room, as the officials don't usually stay on the field during halftime (I was not at the AFCC, but I've been to enough NFL games to see them leave the field at halftime).

Regardless, if the Patriots "prepared" all 24 of their balls as BB says they did, then all 24 balls should have experience the PSI change that he says occurs due to the way the Patriots prepare their balls & the weather conditions. Yet, the balls used in the 2nd half didn't change. Why would that be, if according to the Patriots "study" this was just a byproduct of the way they prep their footballs and the weather conditions?

 

[espnespn]

I'm not reading through all of the posts since BB's presser, but I have 3 questions:

BB said that the Pats "prepare" the ball supposedly by roughing them up, to Brady's liking. Then they give them to the refs and have them adjust the ball to 12.5 PSI. Tom Brady has said he likes the ball at 12.5 PSI. If the balls are prepared to Brady's liking, that would imply that they are inflated to 12.5 PSI. Why the need to then ask the refs to inflate them to 12.5 PSI? Shouldn't that already be the case?

Why were all the Colts balls within the official range, if the weather actually caused the change in PSI of the Pat's footballs?

Why didn't the 2nd half balls deflate, since the same "science" that BB refers to should have applied to them?

I understand that scientific tests can be repeated, but in this case, the tests already were repeated, during the 2nd half, and the control group (Colts footballs) and the 2nd test (2nd half) don't support the idea of atmospheric changes. As for the "internal study" that BB mentions (in which he failed to specify exactly what they did) would seem to be coming from a biased group of "scientists" since they obviously had something to gain by producing the result that they are reporting.

Go ask the colts.It really doesn't matter. The few remaining ones left who are still confused because they didn't follow yesterday's events are likely wondering what happened.

But it's simple. Psi changes. BB proved that. Who cares about what the psi is for this and the psi is for that. That really wasn't his point. His point is that psi isn't an exact science, it changes based in a variety of factors, and the NFL has no business investigating psi during a game, as in cold weather games psi is likely to be far lower than it was when the officials measured it.

Ask the Colts? It doesn't matter? PSI changes, BB proved that?Seriously?

BB just said according to what we did (and I won't tell you exactly what we did), the PSI will change. But we should ignore the fact that the Colt's balls didn't change (at least, not by the same amount, as they remained in the legal range when re-inspected). We should also ignore the fact that when the balls were replaced in the 2nd half, the PSI didn't change (again, at least not enough to become "illegal").

So what did BB prove? That he could say (without actually showing any evidence) that the change in PSI in their 1st half footballs was due to the weather, but the PSI of the Colt's footballs and the Pats 2nd half footballs didn't have the same weather influences?

Sure it's possible for the PSI of a football to change due to weather, but the fact that only the balls that the Pats used in the first half experienced this change is what still has not been explained.

Why do folks keep ignoring this?

because it's irrelevant --- much like the entire subject and your repeated posting?

It's not irrelevant, in fact, it is the entire point of this "controversy."If both team's footballs experienced the same deflation, then the answer "the weather caused the change" would be THE ANSWER. Since it didn't, and then in the 2nd half, neither team's footballs deflated to the point of becoming illegal, something was different about the Patriot's balls in the 1st half.

Unless, you want us to believe that an organization like the Patriots, who are meticulous about many things, would decide that the preparation of the game balls for their AFC championship game wasn't important enough to "prepare" all 24 of their game balls, only 11 or 12?

Where were the backups stored? Where were they remeasured? When?

Oh, you dont know? Neither do we.

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/this-just-in/21901571/source-pats-switched-backup-balls-2nd-half

The Patriots 12 backup balls were stored indoors. And they were found to be at acceptable PSI levels.

This seems to re-support the HeadSmart study that the outside weather conditions caused the PSI drop to the original 12 game balls.

 

[AB in DC]

Bill Nye is an ABC, er ESPN employee. Nuff said.

Bill Nye lives in the Seattle area, is a Seahawks fan, and ended the segment saying "Go Hawks". Nuff said.

Ahh, I see. So should we also disregard the opinions of any Patriot fans, in addition to those presented by actual scientists?

Let's test this, shall we? Here are some studies by Boston scientists who are Pats fans. If we should trust Bill "Go Hawks" Nye as being objective, do you also trust these guys? http://chronicle.com/blogs/ticker/physics-professors-tackle-the-nfls-ballghazi-scandal/92719?utm_source=social&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=prbuexperts

 

[Green and Gold]

Baalllllllssssss

 

[Bayhawks]

Bill Nye is an ABC, er ESPN employee. Nuff said.

Bill Nye lives in the Seattle area, is a Seahawks fan, and ended the segment saying "Go Hawks". Nuff said.

Ahh, I see. So should we also disregard the opinions of any Patriot fans, in addition to those presented by actual scientists?

I think it's pretty obvious that Nye's segment was heavily edited by ESPN to cause a stir. Nowhere in that segment does NYe support or refute Belichik's main thesis (that is ow also supported by many others in the science community, including the Carnegie Mellon report we keep linking to in here) that atmospheric conditions alone could reduce the psi in a ball up to 1.9 psi.I have no problem with people having a predisposition, but at least address the facts.

1-the group you keep referring to isn't affiliated with Carnegie Mellon; they are a group of individuals (some of who are students or staff at CM), but they are not a part of the university.

2-Why didn't the Colt's balls (or the NE balls) in the 2nd half experience the atmospheric induced changes?

 

[mbuehner]

What he said was that the Patriots heated the air in the ball immediately prior to giving them to the refs, such that the PSI were about a pound high at that point. Then they instructed the refs to inflate them to the minumum required (12.5 PSI). And afterward, when the footballs cooled from the stimulation the Pats applied, the balls lost a pound of PSI. And lost another .5 PSI when they were taken outside.

Even that doesn't account for the (reported) two pounds of lost PSI, though.

None of this is what he said. Also the accusation was that the balls were almost 2psi low, not 2psi. That could mean 1.6 or 1.99.