Patriots being investigated after Colts game (3 Viewers)

[ROCKET]

I'm sure Kraft, Belichick and Brady have all staked their reputations on a ball boy not cracking in one of the biggest sports stories of all-time. They obviously trust the kid the kid completely, after all they leave it to him to get Brady's balls feeling perfect. Additionally, they turned over the video to the NFL showing him going in the can to deflated the balls in a time period quicker than I can drop a log and get off a single wipe.

I mean what are the odds the NFL henchman could get the kid to talk? I'm sure just like in Goodfellas they knew he would not rat and were willing to risk everything on that. This whole thing is laughable as people talk about the Pats like they are some idiot kid down the street trying to cover up a crime they got into with their buddies.

 

[espnespn]

espnespn, on 27 Jan 2015 - 09:55 AM, said:

Chaz McNulty, on 27 Jan 2015 - 12:46 AM, said:

BustedKnuckles, on 27 Jan 2015 - 12:40 AM, said:

Chaz McNulty, on 27 Jan 2015 - 12:34 AM, said:

12punch, on 27 Jan 2015 - 12:27 AM, said:

Chaz McNulty, on 27 Jan 2015 - 12:23 AM, said:A couple questions to the Pats fans.

If it comes out that all the Colts and Pats balls were all weighed pregame and it is found out that the Colts balls had a negligible drop of .1 psi while the Pats balls all lost 2 pounds, will you then drop the PSI angle and admit that something else must have caused the balls to deflate?

If it is found out that an equipment guy deflated the ball, would you believe he was doing it completely on his own accord if Brady and Belicheck still denied any involvement?

I'm just wondering how far the burden of proof needs to go. Do we need to find Brady with a pump needle stuck up his ### and a videotape of Belickeck giving him the pump?

I think the question is what would it take for trolls to stop trolling?

come up with 6 random hypotheticals for me --- my imagination isn't so great

Someone asked the question a couple pages back and not one Patrior fan answered. Seriously, do we need video evidence to convict.

solid ''proof'' will do

Would all the Patriots balls losing 2psi and all the Colts balls losing .1psi be solid proof that the balls were tampered with?

The amount of scientific ignorance displayed by Salty Haters is staggering. Let's recap the science:

1) Colder weather lowers PSI. This is a scientific fact. How much PSI is lost, depends on the temperature difference.

2) We have video proof from at least one scientific group that an average of 1.8 PSI is lost when they recreated game conditions (25 degree drop in football temperature, in rain)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxsXFX3tDpg

Unless the Colts footballs started at different temperatures or at different PSI, they should lose the same amount of PSI as the Patriots footballs: if the Colts footballs only lost 0.1 PSI instead of the 1.8 PSI predicted by science, that would be evidence that the Colts re-inflated their balls, not evidence that the Patriots deflated their balls. Otherwise, the Colts footballs would violate the Ideal Gas Law, which is scientifically impossible! The Patriots balls losing 1.8 PSI are consistent with the science.

PS. We have video evidence from HeadSmart that proves footballs can lose 1.8 PSI. Seriously, what more do we need to convince Salty Haters that science explains the Patriots football PSI drop?

You really think during a game teams are inflating footballs? After the ref approves them they aren't suppose to be altered and during an actual game you think a team is taking the time to do that? Wow.

I'm not saying the Colts actually re-inflated. I'm saying that a 0.1 PSI loss (as proposed by the previous poster) is impossible according to the Ideal Gas Law, unless the Colts re-inflated.

While you may be correct, the Ideal Gas law using Kelvin to measure temperature, not Fahrenheit. So, the 33% (approximated) change in temperature (according to degrees in Fahrenheit) is actually about a 4.5% change, according to Kelvin degrees. Someone with more knowledge than I of the Ideal Gas Law would have to do the math to see what PSI change would result.

Yes, to do proper calculations, we need to convert to Kelvin. Also, we need to include atmospheric pressure (14.7 PSI), which some scientists in the news (Neil DeGrasse Tyson) have not been doing. Not saying that Reddit is the best source, but here's a discussion of the calculations:

http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/2ts1o6/are_bill_nye_and_neil_degrasse_tyson_wrong_on/

 

[shader]

ROCKET, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:Almost forgot to ask: When someone finds a video of some guy going into a bathroom with a bag of balls and deflating 12 balls 2 psi in 90 seconds please link. TIA.

That's what I think will save them...no way there is a camera in a 1 stall bathroom so there will never be absolute proof.

Honestly not sure about how hard it is to deflate.....I assume you just stick the needle in and squeeze some air out? I only have inflated my balls.

So you can't come up with a logical approximate time it would take for someone to deflate 12 balls in a bathroom? If the guy had 90 seconds from the time he opened the door to the time he came out that would (by my math) leave him roughly 7 seconds per ball?

Sound plausible to you?

The problem is the logistics of opening the bag, pulling out a ball, deflating, setting on the floor (you dont want to risk deflating the same ball twice), getting the next ball, repeat 11 times, then stuffing them back into the bag without balls rolling all over the place, all in 90 seconds.

You'd almost surely need accomplices, which if this was what the Pats schemed to do, why not have a couple guys waiting in the bathroom to execute it. The video would tell that story. Maybe it did, but you'd think that would have been leaked for sure.

It would be pretty easy to do in 90 seconds. Open the bag wide, take a needle, stick it in each ball for about 3 seconds, and move to the next. But the question is why? Why are we assuming that he committed a crime? Whats the point? Just because the balls were deflated a little bit during the game? We've already established, unless someone can provide evidence otherwise, that weather alone can provide for a significant reduction in psi. So why the need for a rogue ballboy?

 

[Godsbrother]

ROCKET, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:Almost forgot to ask: When someone finds a video of some guy going into a bathroom with a bag of balls and deflating 12 balls 2 psi in 90 seconds please link. TIA.

That's what I think will save them...no way there is a camera in a 1 stall bathroom so there will never be absolute proof.

Honestly not sure about how hard it is to deflate.....I assume you just stick the needle in and squeeze some air out? I only have inflated my balls.

So you can't come up with a logical approximate time it would take for someone to deflate 12 balls in a bathroom? If the guy had 90 seconds from the time he opened the door to the time he came out that would (by my math) leave him roughly 7 seconds per ball?

Sound plausible to you?

The problem is the logistics of opening the bag, pulling out a ball, deflating, setting on the floor (you dont want to risk deflating the same ball twice), getting the next ball, repeat 11 times, then stuffing them back into the bag without balls rolling all over the place, all in 90 seconds.

You'd almost surely need accomplices, which if this was what the Pats schemed to do, why not have a couple guys waiting in the bathroom to execute it. The video would tell that story. Maybe it did, but you'd think that would have been leaked for sure.

It would be pretty easy to do in 90 seconds. Open the bag wide, take a needle, stick it in each ball for about 3 seconds, and move to the next. But the question is why? Why are we assuming that he committed a crime? Whats the point? Just because the balls were deflated a little bit during the game? We've already established, unless someone can provide evidence otherwise, that weather alone can provide for a significant reduction in psi. So why the need for a rogue ballboy?

Weather would not affect just the Patriots balls. You can take weather out of it.

 

[mbuehner]

ROCKET, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:Almost forgot to ask: When someone finds a video of some guy going into a bathroom with a bag of balls and deflating 12 balls 2 psi in 90 seconds please link. TIA.

That's what I think will save them...no way there is a camera in a 1 stall bathroom so there will never be absolute proof.

Honestly not sure about how hard it is to deflate.....I assume you just stick the needle in and squeeze some air out? I only have inflated my balls.

So you can't come up with a logical approximate time it would take for someone to deflate 12 balls in a bathroom? If the guy had 90 seconds from the time he opened the door to the time he came out that would (by my math) leave him roughly 7 seconds per ball?

Sound plausible to you?

The problem is the logistics of opening the bag, pulling out a ball, deflating, setting on the floor (you dont want to risk deflating the same ball twice), getting the next ball, repeat 11 times, then stuffing them back into the bag without balls rolling all over the place, all in 90 seconds.

You'd almost surely need accomplices, which if this was what the Pats schemed to do, why not have a couple guys waiting in the bathroom to execute it. The video would tell that story. Maybe it did, but you'd think that would have been leaked for sure.

It would be pretty easy to do in 90 seconds. Open the bag wide, take a needle, stick it in each ball for about 3 seconds, and move to the next. But the question is why? Why are we assuming that he committed a crime? Whats the point? Just because the balls were deflated a little bit during the game? We've already established, unless someone can provide evidence otherwise, that weather alone can provide for a significant reduction in psi. So why the need for a rogue ballboy?

I dont disagree, but for the sake of argument, i think you cant execute this with the balls inside the bag. At least without taking a serious risk that you miss some and over-deflate others.

 

[BassNBrew]

I beginning to wonder if a different gas was used to inflated the Patriots balls. One that would be more sensitive to temperature changes. I suspect the NFL rule book doesn't define the composition of the gas used to inflate the balls.

 

[mbuehner]

ROCKET, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:Almost forgot to ask: When someone finds a video of some guy going into a bathroom with a bag of balls and deflating 12 balls 2 psi in 90 seconds please link. TIA.

That's what I think will save them...no way there is a camera in a 1 stall bathroom so there will never be absolute proof.

Honestly not sure about how hard it is to deflate.....I assume you just stick the needle in and squeeze some air out? I only have inflated my balls.

So you can't come up with a logical approximate time it would take for someone to deflate 12 balls in a bathroom? If the guy had 90 seconds from the time he opened the door to the time he came out that would (by my math) leave him roughly 7 seconds per ball?

Sound plausible to you?

The problem is the logistics of opening the bag, pulling out a ball, deflating, setting on the floor (you dont want to risk deflating the same ball twice), getting the next ball, repeat 11 times, then stuffing them back into the bag without balls rolling all over the place, all in 90 seconds.

You'd almost surely need accomplices, which if this was what the Pats schemed to do, why not have a couple guys waiting in the bathroom to execute it. The video would tell that story. Maybe it did, but you'd think that would have been leaked for sure.

It would be pretty easy to do in 90 seconds. Open the bag wide, take a needle, stick it in each ball for about 3 seconds, and move to the next. But the question is why? Why are we assuming that he committed a crime? Whats the point? Just because the balls were deflated a little bit during the game? We've already established, unless someone can provide evidence otherwise, that weather alone can provide for a significant reduction in psi. So why the need for a rogue ballboy?

Weather would not affect just the Patriots balls. You can take weather out of it.

Here we go... well its been 10 posts since somebody brought up the Colts balls we have no data about.

 

[GoBirds]

mbuehner, on 27 Jan 2015 - 11:01 AM, said:

shader, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:58 AM, said:

mbuehner, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:49 AM, said:

ROCKET, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:37 AM, said:

GoBirds, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:29 AM, said:

ROCKET, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:ROCKET, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:Almost forgot to ask: When someone finds a video of some guy going into a bathroom with a bag of balls and deflating 12 balls 2 psi in 90 seconds please link. TIA.

That's what I think will save them...no way there is a camera in a 1 stall bathroom so there will never be absolute proof.

Honestly not sure about how hard it is to deflate.....I assume you just stick the needle in and squeeze some air out? I only have inflated my balls.

So you can't come up with a logical approximate time it would take for someone to deflate 12 balls in a bathroom? If the guy had 90 seconds from the time he opened the door to the time he came out that would (by my math) leave him roughly 7 seconds per ball?

Sound plausible to you?

The problem is the logistics of opening the bag, pulling out a ball, deflating, setting on the floor (you dont want to risk deflating the same ball twice), getting the next ball, repeat 11 times, then stuffing them back into the bag without balls rolling all over the place, all in 90 seconds.

You'd almost surely need accomplices, which if this was what the Pats schemed to do, why not have a couple guys waiting in the bathroom to execute it. The video would tell that story. Maybe it did, but you'd think that would have been leaked for sure.

It would be pretty easy to do in 90 seconds. Open the bag wide, take a needle, stick it in each ball for about 3 seconds, and move to the next. But the question is why? Why are we assuming that he committed a crime? Whats the point? Just because the balls were deflated a little bit during the game? We've already established, unless someone can provide evidence otherwise, that weather alone can provide for a significant reduction in psi. So why the need for a rogue ballboy?

I dont disagree, but for the sake of argument, i think you cant execute this with the balls inside the bag. At least without taking a serious risk that you miss some and over-deflate others.

Why not, if you forget if you did one of them you squeeze to compare since its a noticeable difference?

Older clip but shows how easy it is to tell.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=12206777

 

[mbuehner]

mbuehner, on 27 Jan 2015 - 11:01 AM, said:

shader, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:58 AM, said:

mbuehner, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:49 AM, said:

ROCKET, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:37 AM, said:

GoBirds, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:29 AM, said:

ROCKET, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:ROCKET, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:Almost forgot to ask: When someone finds a video of some guy going into a bathroom with a bag of balls and deflating 12 balls 2 psi in 90 seconds please link. TIA.

That's what I think will save them...no way there is a camera in a 1 stall bathroom so there will never be absolute proof.

Honestly not sure about how hard it is to deflate.....I assume you just stick the needle in and squeeze some air out? I only have inflated my balls.

So you can't come up with a logical approximate time it would take for someone to deflate 12 balls in a bathroom? If the guy had 90 seconds from the time he opened the door to the time he came out that would (by my math) leave him roughly 7 seconds per ball?

Sound plausible to you?

The problem is the logistics of opening the bag, pulling out a ball, deflating, setting on the floor (you dont want to risk deflating the same ball twice), getting the next ball, repeat 11 times, then stuffing them back into the bag without balls rolling all over the place, all in 90 seconds.

You'd almost surely need accomplices, which if this was what the Pats schemed to do, why not have a couple guys waiting in the bathroom to execute it. The video would tell that story. Maybe it did, but you'd think that would have been leaked for sure.

It would be pretty easy to do in 90 seconds. Open the bag wide, take a needle, stick it in each ball for about 3 seconds, and move to the next. But the question is why? Why are we assuming that he committed a crime? Whats the point? Just because the balls were deflated a little bit during the game? We've already established, unless someone can provide evidence otherwise, that weather alone can provide for a significant reduction in psi. So why the need for a rogue ballboy?

I dont disagree, but for the sake of argument, i think you cant execute this with the balls inside the bag. At least without taking a serious risk that you miss some and over-deflate others.

Why not, if you forget if you did one of them you squeeze to compare since its a noticeable difference?

Older clip but shows how easy it is to tell.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=12206777

Thats absurd.

 

[ROCKET]

ROCKET, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:Almost forgot to ask: When someone finds a video of some guy going into a bathroom with a bag of balls and deflating 12 balls 2 psi in 90 seconds please link. TIA.

That's what I think will save them...no way there is a camera in a 1 stall bathroom so there will never be absolute proof.

Honestly not sure about how hard it is to deflate.....I assume you just stick the needle in and squeeze some air out? I only have inflated my balls.

So you can't come up with a logical approximate time it would take for someone to deflate 12 balls in a bathroom? If the guy had 90 seconds from the time he opened the door to the time he came out that would (by my math) leave him roughly 7 seconds per ball?

Sound plausible to you?

The problem is the logistics of opening the bag, pulling out a ball, deflating, setting on the floor (you dont want to risk deflating the same ball twice), getting the next ball, repeat 11 times, then stuffing them back into the bag without balls rolling all over the place, all in 90 seconds.

You'd almost surely need accomplices, which if this was what the Pats schemed to do, why not have a couple guys waiting in the bathroom to execute it. The video would tell that story. Maybe it did, but you'd think that would have been leaked for sure.

It would be pretty easy to do in 90 seconds. Open the bag wide, take a needle, stick it in each ball for about 3 seconds, and move to the next. But the question is why? Why are we assuming that he committed a crime? Whats the point? Just because the balls were deflated a little bit during the game? We've already established, unless someone can provide evidence otherwise, that weather alone can provide for a significant reduction in psi. So why the need for a rogue ballboy?

I don't think it would be as easy as you think. You would need to guage the balls to get the desired psi. You could do the 3 second rule and yes it would get them closer to the desired psi but there would be big fluctuations. If you wanted to get the balls perfect then why wouldn't you take the time to do it right? What's the hurry?

It wouldn't take more than another couple minutes to guage them. The time it takes for a healthy dump and wipe which you could do at the same time. Just come out and tell the NFL inspectors that were following you " I wouldn't go in there if I was you"

 

[HellToupee]

I beginning to wonder if a different gas was used to inflated the Patriots balls. One that would be more sensitive to temperature changes. I suspect the NFL rule book doesn't define the composition of the gas used to inflate the balls.

there was talk about the substances they use on the outside to "prepare" the balls that play into lowering the psi

 

[Morton Muffley]

A couple questions to the Pats fans.

If it comes out that all the Colts and Pats balls were all weighed pregame and it is found out that the Colts balls had a negligible drop of .1 psi while the Pats balls all lost 2 pounds, will you then drop the PSI angle and admit that something else must have caused the balls to deflate?

If it is found out that an equipment guy deflated the ball, would you believe he was doing it completely on his own accord if Brady and Belicheck still denied any involvement?

I'm just wondering how far the burden of proof needs to go. Do we need to find Brady with a pump needle stuck up his ### and a videotape of Belickeck giving him the pump?

I think the question is what would it take for trolls to stop trolling?

come up with 6 random hypotheticals for me --- my imagination isn't so great

Someone asked the question a couple pages back and not one Patrior fan answered. Seriously, do we need video evidence to convict.

solid ''proof'' will do

Would all the Patriots balls losing 2psi and all the Colts balls losing .1psi be solid proof that the balls were tampered with?

Not for me. Filling a ball at room temp ~70 degrees as far as everyone has said will mean a ball loses 1 PSI with the game temp. That's without rain. If the Colts balls aren't changing they did everything at outside temps. That's the problem different outcomes will occur with different IMO legal actions. Filling the balls with hot air is at minimum skirting the rules. Filling them in a 70 degree office isn't neither is filling them outside.But let's wait for the results. There has been too much conflicting leaked information to really have any clue what the real info will be.

If the change that occurred to the Pats balls can't be explained by legal actions then I will assume it is illegal. If someone manually removed air from the balls it will be on video. From what I've heard the only time the Pats have access post inspection is on the field. You can't do anything in public without it ending up on video anymore. 95% of people have a video camera on their phone.

But, if the balls that the Patriots used in the 2nd half were stored inside during the 1st half (as the report linked in this post says), and then the balls were tested after the game and still in compliance, that refutes the bolded.All 24 Pat balls were checked before the game, all 24 balls were kept in the officials locker room, 10 minutes before game time, the 12 Pats balls & 12 Colts balls were given to the respective ball boys to take to the field. Supposedly, the NFL has video showing the Pats ball boy/attendant/whoever going into a separate room (a room w/out video, one would assume). After he exits this room, he brings the balls to the field. Those 12 balls (along with the Colts balls) are used in the 1st half. During half-time, 11/12 Patriots footballs are found to be under-inflated by 2 lbs PSI each. The back-up balls, which have been in the officials locker room (presumably at this 70% temperature) for the entire 1st half, are then used during the 2nd half. When these balls are checked again, after the game, after having been exposed to the same atmospheric conditions as the 1st half Patriots footballs (actually probably more extreme, as the weather was likely colder in the 2nd half), they did not experience the same PSI drop, as they were found to still be within the legal range.

So, if the Patriots balls (all 24 of them) were filled in the same room (hypothetical 70% temp), and the 2nd half balls were kept insides for the 1st half, why didn't they experience the same drop in PSI in the 2nd half as the 1st half balls did? All the variables are the same, except for the few minutes the footballs were allegedly in this room with the Pats ball-boy/attendant.

they did, but when checked after the game, enough time had passed that they re-acclimated to room temperature.Remember - the officials only had 15 minutes or so to pressure-gauge 24 footballs, in addition to taking a piss and whatever else refs do at halftime. They would be under no such time constraints after the game.

Do you KNOW this, or are you assuming? What time did they re-inspect the footballs?I find it hard to believe that the footballs will "re-acclimate" that rapidly, so unless we are talking about hours after the game, I doubt the PSI in the balls would have changed significantly.

of course I don't KNOW any of this. I also don't KNOW that any balls were at 50 dF when tested at any point either. For all we know, the Pats balls and Colts balls were all at standard room temp when pressure checked, redering all ideal gas laws and the CM guys analysis wrong because T2 = T1. No one KNOWS anything except the guys running the NFL's investigation.

I disagree with your last point, I don't think the guys running the NFL's investigation know anything either

 

[Anarchy99]

Has anyone pointed out that it would be pretty unlikely that an equipment guy not suspecting he was watched would try to set a new world record for deflating footballs. With everything else going on pregame, it is unlikely that they would miss the footballs if he were in there for 5 minutes instead of 90 seconds.

Serious question for those that are wanting to castrate New England. Isn't it possible, if not probable, that whoever it was stopped to use the bathroom before heading out to the field? I have coached and been chain gang for youth games for years, and that's exactly what I did before setting foot onto the field.

 

[espnespn]

ROCKET, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:Almost forgot to ask: When someone finds a video of some guy going into a bathroom with a bag of balls and deflating 12 balls 2 psi in 90 seconds please link. TIA.

That's what I think will save them...no way there is a camera in a 1 stall bathroom so there will never be absolute proof.

Honestly not sure about how hard it is to deflate.....I assume you just stick the needle in and squeeze some air out? I only have inflated my balls.

So you can't come up with a logical approximate time it would take for someone to deflate 12 balls in a bathroom? If the guy had 90 seconds from the time he opened the door to the time he came out that would (by my math) leave him roughly 7 seconds per ball?

Sound plausible to you?

The problem is the logistics of opening the bag, pulling out a ball, deflating, setting on the floor (you dont want to risk deflating the same ball twice), getting the next ball, repeat 11 times, then stuffing them back into the bag without balls rolling all over the place, all in 90 seconds.

You'd almost surely need accomplices, which if this was what the Pats schemed to do, why not have a couple guys waiting in the bathroom to execute it. The video would tell that story. Maybe it did, but you'd think that would have been leaked for sure.

It would be pretty easy to do in 90 seconds. Open the bag wide, take a needle, stick it in each ball for about 3 seconds, and move to the next. But the question is why? Why are we assuming that he committed a crime? Whats the point? Just because the balls were deflated a little bit during the game? We've already established, unless someone can provide evidence otherwise, that weather alone can provide for a significant reduction in psi. So why the need for a rogue ballboy?

Weather would not affect just the Patriots balls. You can take weather out of it.

Like I said before, the scientific ignorance is staggering. I love how people think the Ideal Gas Law does not apply, because unverified reports say that the PSI of Colts balls did not change.

Colder weather lowers football PSI. That is a scientific fact. Do you have any scientific proof that the Colts football PSI did not change?

 

[ROCKET]

ROCKET, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:Almost forgot to ask: When someone finds a video of some guy going into a bathroom with a bag of balls and deflating 12 balls 2 psi in 90 seconds please link. TIA.

That's what I think will save them...no way there is a camera in a 1 stall bathroom so there will never be absolute proof.

Honestly not sure about how hard it is to deflate.....I assume you just stick the needle in and squeeze some air out? I only have inflated my balls.

So you can't come up with a logical approximate time it would take for someone to deflate 12 balls in a bathroom? If the guy had 90 seconds from the time he opened the door to the time he came out that would (by my math) leave him roughly 7 seconds per ball?

Sound plausible to you?

The problem is the logistics of opening the bag, pulling out a ball, deflating, setting on the floor (you dont want to risk deflating the same ball twice), getting the next ball, repeat 11 times, then stuffing them back into the bag without balls rolling all over the place, all in 90 seconds.

You'd almost surely need accomplices, which if this was what the Pats schemed to do, why not have a couple guys waiting in the bathroom to execute it. The video would tell that story. Maybe it did, but you'd think that would have been leaked for sure.

It would be pretty easy to do in 90 seconds. Open the bag wide, take a needle, stick it in each ball for about 3 seconds, and move to the next. But the question is why? Why are we assuming that he committed a crime? Whats the point? Just because the balls were deflated a little bit during the game? We've already established, unless someone can provide evidence otherwise, that weather alone can provide for a significant reduction in psi. So why the need for a rogue ballboy?

Weather would not affect just the Patriots balls. You can take weather out of it.

This has already been addressed at length. Once again:

It is very possible the Colts balls started at a higher psi going in.

The balls dropped some psi, not enough to get them below 12.5 psi.

The Pats balls started low, maybe even lower than 12.5 psi?

They dropped too and were below 12.5 psi when checked.

This is a very possible scenario.

There has been nothing but rumor and innuendo regarding where the balls of both teams started and ended at regarding psi, nothing is confirmed regardless of some people claiming otherwise.

So weather is far from ruled out until all the facts are in.

 

[shader]

ROCKET, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:Almost forgot to ask: When someone finds a video of some guy going into a bathroom with a bag of balls and deflating 12 balls 2 psi in 90 seconds please link. TIA.

That's what I think will save them...no way there is a camera in a 1 stall bathroom so there will never be absolute proof.

Honestly not sure about how hard it is to deflate.....I assume you just stick the needle in and squeeze some air out? I only have inflated my balls.

So you can't come up with a logical approximate time it would take for someone to deflate 12 balls in a bathroom? If the guy had 90 seconds from the time he opened the door to the time he came out that would (by my math) leave him roughly 7 seconds per ball?

Sound plausible to you?

The problem is the logistics of opening the bag, pulling out a ball, deflating, setting on the floor (you dont want to risk deflating the same ball twice), getting the next ball, repeat 11 times, then stuffing them back into the bag without balls rolling all over the place, all in 90 seconds.

You'd almost surely need accomplices, which if this was what the Pats schemed to do, why not have a couple guys waiting in the bathroom to execute it. The video would tell that story. Maybe it did, but you'd think that would have been leaked for sure.

It would be pretty easy to do in 90 seconds. Open the bag wide, take a needle, stick it in each ball for about 3 seconds, and move to the next. But the question is why? Why are we assuming that he committed a crime? Whats the point? Just because the balls were deflated a little bit during the game? We've already established, unless someone can provide evidence otherwise, that weather alone can provide for a significant reduction in psi. So why the need for a rogue ballboy?

Weather would not affect just the Patriots balls. You can take weather out of it.

No I won't take the weather out of it, unless you can prove that the Colts balls were measured throughout the game? Especially if 10 of the Patriots balls only fell 1 psi.

I'm so sick of this "what about the Colts balls" argument I could scream. There is NO PROOF THAT THE COLTS BALLS WERE EVER MEASURED.

NONE

The whole "what about the Colts balls" argument is null and void unless the NFL can provide extensive details on what/where/when the Colts balls were measured.

 

[shader]

ROCKET, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:Almost forgot to ask: When someone finds a video of some guy going into a bathroom with a bag of balls and deflating 12 balls 2 psi in 90 seconds please link. TIA.

That's what I think will save them...no way there is a camera in a 1 stall bathroom so there will never be absolute proof.

Honestly not sure about how hard it is to deflate.....I assume you just stick the needle in and squeeze some air out? I only have inflated my balls.

So you can't come up with a logical approximate time it would take for someone to deflate 12 balls in a bathroom? If the guy had 90 seconds from the time he opened the door to the time he came out that would (by my math) leave him roughly 7 seconds per ball?

Sound plausible to you?

The problem is the logistics of opening the bag, pulling out a ball, deflating, setting on the floor (you dont want to risk deflating the same ball twice), getting the next ball, repeat 11 times, then stuffing them back into the bag without balls rolling all over the place, all in 90 seconds.

You'd almost surely need accomplices, which if this was what the Pats schemed to do, why not have a couple guys waiting in the bathroom to execute it. The video would tell that story. Maybe it did, but you'd think that would have been leaked for sure.

It would be pretty easy to do in 90 seconds. Open the bag wide, take a needle, stick it in each ball for about 3 seconds, and move to the next. But the question is why? Why are we assuming that he committed a crime? Whats the point? Just because the balls were deflated a little bit during the game? We've already established, unless someone can provide evidence otherwise, that weather alone can provide for a significant reduction in psi. So why the need for a rogue ballboy?

Weather would not affect just the Patriots balls. You can take weather out of it.

This has already been addressed at length. Once again:

It is very possible the Colts balls started at a higher psi going in.

The balls dropped some psi, not enough to get them below 12.5 psi.

The Pats balls started low, maybe even lower than 12.5 psi?

They dropped too and were below 12.5 psi when checked.

This is a very possible scenario.

There has been nothing but rumor and innuendo regarding where the balls of both teams started and ended at regarding psi, nothing is confirmed regardless of some people claiming otherwise.

So weather is far from ruled out until all the facts are in.

People don't think anymore. They parrot what some clueless talking head on TV says.

 

[GoBirds]

mbuehner, on 27 Jan 2015 - 11:07 AM, said:

GoBirds, on 27 Jan 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

mbuehner, on 27 Jan 2015 - 11:01 AM, said:mbuehner, on 27 Jan 2015 - 11:01 AM, said:

shader, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:58 AM, said:shader, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:58 AM, said:

mbuehner, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:49 AM, said:mbuehner, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:49 AM, said:

ROCKET, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:37 AM, said:ROCKET, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:37 AM, said:

GoBirds, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:29 AM, said:GoBirds, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:29 AM, said:

ROCKET, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:ROCKET, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:ROCKET, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:Almost forgot to ask: When someone finds a video of some guy going into a bathroom with a bag of balls and deflating 12 balls 2 psi in 90 seconds please link. TIA.

That's what I think will save them...no way there is a camera in a 1 stall bathroom so there will never be absolute proof.

Honestly not sure about how hard it is to deflate.....I assume you just stick the needle in and squeeze some air out? I only have inflated my balls.

So you can't come up with a logical approximate time it would take for someone to deflate 12 balls in a bathroom? If the guy had 90 seconds from the time he opened the door to the time he came out that would (by my math) leave him roughly 7 seconds per ball?

Sound plausible to you?

The problem is the logistics of opening the bag, pulling out a ball, deflating, setting on the floor (you dont want to risk deflating the same ball twice), getting the next ball, repeat 11 times, then stuffing them back into the bag without balls rolling all over the place, all in 90 seconds.

You'd almost surely need accomplices, which if this was what the Pats schemed to do, why not have a couple guys waiting in the bathroom to execute it. The video would tell that story. Maybe it did, but you'd think that would have been leaked for sure.

It would be pretty easy to do in 90 seconds. Open the bag wide, take a needle, stick it in each ball for about 3 seconds, and move to the next. But the question is why? Why are we assuming that he committed a crime? Whats the point? Just because the balls were deflated a little bit during the game? We've already established, unless someone can provide evidence otherwise, that weather alone can provide for a significant reduction in psi. So why the need for a rogue ballboy?

I dont disagree, but for the sake of argument, i think you cant execute this with the balls inside the bag. At least without taking a serious risk that you miss some and over-deflate others.

Why not, if you forget if you did one of them you squeeze to compare since its a noticeable difference?

Older clip but shows how easy it is to tell.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=12206777

Thats absurd.

Why, because you need it to be? If it wasn't a noticeable difference there would be no rule causing this issue.

 

[devouredbychaos]

BUT GUYZ, remember I can make a device as small as a pack of gum that'll deflate the balls in an instant.. Where's the salty hater that said that? Because cmon it's obvious the rogue ball boy had one of those with him in the bathroom!

 

[randall146]

Each team is responsible for supplying footballs... who is responsible for inflating them properly? Has that been addressed?

I think the refs. The rule states:

"The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications."

So hypothetically if a ball is under-inflated at inspection, it would seem that it is the refs judgement as to whether it complies and can be used.

But once again who knows... At this point it is just unconfirmed, unnamed sourced reports flying back and forth. I don't think any real info can be trusted as any sort of fact at this point. We have numbers like 2lbs from Mort, 1lb from Florio and everything else in between.

Responsibility to judge is not the same as responsibility to comply. The refs are also the sole judge as to whether players commit on-field violations, that doesn't make it the refs' responsibility to prevent guys from pulling each other down by the facemask. The teams/players are still the ones committing the violation, whether that's a personal foul in violation of NFL rules or use of improper game balls in violation of NFL rules. Not getting caught doesn't mean you didn't break the rules, it just means you might be spared from punishment.

Not really. According to the Bears ball inspection video it's regular practice for the refs to measure each ball, and then inflate or deflate as necessary. At that point the refs are the sole judge of whether the ball complies. So the teams have to assume whatever balls have been through the inspection process would them comply. Indeed, after the ref's inspection the teams have no authority under the rule even if they think a ball is over- or under-inflated, because the sole judge of the issue would have already deemed the ball compliant.

In your facemask example the ref is making or missing a call on something that already happened. In the ball example the refs are presenting the teams with something deemed to be compliant. The very fact that the refs have had the balls, and presumedly inspected them, means they are compliant

 

[GoBirds]

devouredbychaos, on 27 Jan 2015 - 11:26 AM, said:BUT GUYZ, remember I can make a device as small as a pack of gum that'll deflate the balls in an instant.. Where's the salty hater that said that? Because cmon it's obvious the rogue ball boy had one of those with him in the bathroom!

The device you speak of is called a needle or paper clip. Not always attainable by your every day ball boy though.

 

[randall146]

ROCKET, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:Almost forgot to ask: When someone finds a video of some guy going into a bathroom with a bag of balls and deflating 12 balls 2 psi in 90 seconds please link. TIA.

That's what I think will save them...no way there is a camera in a 1 stall bathroom so there will never be absolute proof.

Honestly not sure about how hard it is to deflate.....I assume you just stick the needle in and squeeze some air out? I only have inflated my balls.

So you can't come up with a logical approximate time it would take for someone to deflate 12 balls in a bathroom? If the guy had 90 seconds from the time he opened the door to the time he came out that would (by my math) leave him roughly 7 seconds per ball?

Sound plausible to you?

The problem is the logistics of opening the bag, pulling out a ball, deflating, setting on the floor (you dont want to risk deflating the same ball twice), getting the next ball, repeat 11 times, then stuffing them back into the bag without balls rolling all over the place, all in 90 seconds.

You'd almost surely need accomplices, which if this was what the Pats schemed to do, why not have a couple guys waiting in the bathroom to execute it. The video would tell that story. Maybe it did, but you'd think that would have been leaked for sure.

It would be pretty easy to do in 90 seconds. Open the bag wide, take a needle, stick it in each ball for about 3 seconds, and move to the next. But the question is why? Why are we assuming that he committed a crime? Whats the point? Just because the balls were deflated a little bit during the game? We've already established, unless someone can provide evidence otherwise, that weather alone can provide for a significant reduction in psi. So why the need for a rogue ballboy?

Because without rogue ballboy there isn't a crime. Duh.

 

[shader]

Each team is responsible for supplying footballs... who is responsible for inflating them properly? Has that been addressed?

I think the refs. The rule states:

"The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications."

So hypothetically if a ball is under-inflated at inspection, it would seem that it is the refs judgement as to whether it complies and can be used.

But once again who knows... At this point it is just unconfirmed, unnamed sourced reports flying back and forth. I don't think any real info can be trusted as any sort of fact at this point. We have numbers like 2lbs from Mort, 1lb from Florio and everything else in between.

Responsibility to judge is not the same as responsibility to comply. The refs are also the sole judge as to whether players commit on-field violations, that doesn't make it the refs' responsibility to prevent guys from pulling each other down by the facemask. The teams/players are still the ones committing the violation, whether that's a personal foul in violation of NFL rules or use of improper game balls in violation of NFL rules. Not getting caught doesn't mean you didn't break the rules, it just means you might be spared from punishment.

Not really. According to the Bears ball inspection video it's regular practice for the refs to measure each ball, and then inflate or deflate as necessary. At that point the refs are the sole judge of whether the ball complies. So the teams have to assume whatever balls have been through the inspection process would them comply. Indeed, after the ref's inspection the teams have no authority under the rule even if they think a ball is over- or under-inflated, because the sole judge of the issue would have already deemed the ball compliant.

In your facemask example the ref is making or missing a call on something that already happened. In the ball example the refs are presenting the teams with something deemed to be compliant. The very fact that the refs have had the balls, and presumedly inspected them, means they are compliant

Yep. The proper deflation of the balls is the sole responsibility of the referee. It's not the responsibility of the teams to make sure they are inflated properly, at least according to the current rules.

In fact, the way I read the rules, the PSI is more of a guideline for the refs to follow when they are preparing the balls for use, not a ironclad rule for teams to abide by.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

BUT GUYZ, remember I can make a device as small as a pack of gum that'll deflate the balls in an instant.. Where's the salty hater that said that? Because cmon it's obvious the rogue ball boy had one of those with him in the bathroom!

i thought we already discussed the needle **** angle

 

[mbuehner]

mbuehner, on 27 Jan 2015 - 11:07 AM, said:

GoBirds, on 27 Jan 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

mbuehner, on 27 Jan 2015 - 11:01 AM, said:mbuehner, on 27 Jan 2015 - 11:01 AM, said:

shader, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:58 AM, said:shader, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:58 AM, said:

mbuehner, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:49 AM, said:mbuehner, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:49 AM, said:

ROCKET, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:37 AM, said:ROCKET, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:37 AM, said:

GoBirds, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:29 AM, said:GoBirds, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:29 AM, said:

ROCKET, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:ROCKET, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:ROCKET, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:Almost forgot to ask: When someone finds a video of some guy going into a bathroom with a bag of balls and deflating 12 balls 2 psi in 90 seconds please link. TIA.

That's what I think will save them...no way there is a camera in a 1 stall bathroom so there will never be absolute proof.

Honestly not sure about how hard it is to deflate.....I assume you just stick the needle in and squeeze some air out? I only have inflated my balls.

So you can't come up with a logical approximate time it would take for someone to deflate 12 balls in a bathroom? If the guy had 90 seconds from the time he opened the door to the time he came out that would (by my math) leave him roughly 7 seconds per ball?

Sound plausible to you?

The problem is the logistics of opening the bag, pulling out a ball, deflating, setting on the floor (you dont want to risk deflating the same ball twice), getting the next ball, repeat 11 times, then stuffing them back into the bag without balls rolling all over the place, all in 90 seconds.

You'd almost surely need accomplices, which if this was what the Pats schemed to do, why not have a couple guys waiting in the bathroom to execute it. The video would tell that story. Maybe it did, but you'd think that would have been leaked for sure.

It would be pretty easy to do in 90 seconds. Open the bag wide, take a needle, stick it in each ball for about 3 seconds, and move to the next. But the question is why? Why are we assuming that he committed a crime? Whats the point? Just because the balls were deflated a little bit during the game? We've already established, unless someone can provide evidence otherwise, that weather alone can provide for a significant reduction in psi. So why the need for a rogue ballboy?

I dont disagree, but for the sake of argument, i think you cant execute this with the balls inside the bag. At least without taking a serious risk that you miss some and over-deflate others.

Why not, if you forget if you did one of them you squeeze to compare since its a noticeable difference?

Older clip but shows how easy it is to tell.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=12206777

Thats absurd.

Why, because you need it to be? If it wasn't a noticeable difference there would be no rule causing this issue.

Thats also absurd. If the ball was a quarter inch shorter than the rule would that be readily apparent? We're talking about (from the latest info) around 1psi. If you were A/Bing two balls and you knew one was inflated and one wasnt, MAYBE you could make a pretty solid guess. Now if your fumbling through 12 balls rolling around in a bag with 90 seconds to get them all deflated, the feel test is by no means easy.

Its a lot like tasting wine. If you tell people what they are drinking, everybody can tell the difference between a 20$ bottle and a 100$ bottle. If you put 12 wines in front of them and tell them to pick out 1 that is the cheaper one, its much different story.

 

[moleculo]

BUT GUYZ, remember I can make a device as small as a pack of gum that'll deflate the balls in an instant.. Where's the salty hater that said that? Because cmon it's obvious the rogue ball boy had one of those with him in the bathroom!

that was me, and I stand by that.

 

[mbuehner]

Each team is responsible for supplying footballs... who is responsible for inflating them properly? Has that been addressed?

I think the refs. The rule states:

"The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications."

So hypothetically if a ball is under-inflated at inspection, it would seem that it is the refs judgement as to whether it complies and can be used.

But once again who knows... At this point it is just unconfirmed, unnamed sourced reports flying back and forth. I don't think any real info can be trusted as any sort of fact at this point. We have numbers like 2lbs from Mort, 1lb from Florio and everything else in between.

Responsibility to judge is not the same as responsibility to comply. The refs are also the sole judge as to whether players commit on-field violations, that doesn't make it the refs' responsibility to prevent guys from pulling each other down by the facemask. The teams/players are still the ones committing the violation, whether that's a personal foul in violation of NFL rules or use of improper game balls in violation of NFL rules. Not getting caught doesn't mean you didn't break the rules, it just means you might be spared from punishment.

Not really. According to the Bears ball inspection video it's regular practice for the refs to measure each ball, and then inflate or deflate as necessary. At that point the refs are the sole judge of whether the ball complies. So the teams have to assume whatever balls have been through the inspection process would them comply. Indeed, after the ref's inspection the teams have no authority under the rule even if they think a ball is over- or under-inflated, because the sole judge of the issue would have already deemed the ball compliant.

In your facemask example the ref is making or missing a call on something that already happened. In the ball example the refs are presenting the teams with something deemed to be compliant. The very fact that the refs have had the balls, and presumedly inspected them, means they are compliant

Hold on- according the the Bears video, the refs were fumbling over a gauge, saying 'close enough', and letting air out of a ball for about 3 seconds trying to get the gauge in properly. I more cynical man might suggest this wasnt something they do 50 times a week.

As far as we know, they only inflate the kicking balls, which are bought by the NFL and solely in their possession.

There is no evidence that in this case, or by and large, that refs measure the balls before games. They inspect them, which is different. A different Bears ball boy, in an interview, said that was the common practice.

 

[moleculo]

This thread is hilarious. Roger Goodell isn't going anywhere (except to the Super Bowl).

Yeah seriously, no chance Goodell goes anywhere. I don't think he is worried about a bunch of Pats fans on a message board sorry. Any other sports station you turn on thinks the Pats are guilty. If you don't want the NFL investigating you then don't have 11 of 12 balls at illegal size.

Kraft is, from what I understand, Godells biggest advocate. If Kraft no longer has his back, I could see Godell being forced out rather quickly. Hell, half the league wants him out anyways because of the Ray Rice thing, the handling of the concussion stuff, and all of the other misc. arbitrary punishments.

Think about the Ray Rice uproar nationwide when that video got out. If he survived that this won't even be a blip on his radar.

He survived that because Kraft had his back.

That's a little delusional....I know you all think Kraft rules the world but most the owners had his back. A lot of those owners don't like the Patriots.

You do realize Moleculo is one of the salty haters.

So what. You guys call everyone that doesn't make excuses one.

You're calling a guy out who doesn't like the Pats for being blinded by his love for them. That's all. Doesn't mean you have to agree with him, but he's not blinded by his love for all things Pats like you implied.

actually, I like the Patriots. I just don't like most Patriot fans on this board.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

if there's one thing i've learned from deflategate it's who ####### cares

 

[shader]

Each team is responsible for supplying footballs... who is responsible for inflating them properly? Has that been addressed?

I think the refs. The rule states:

"The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications."

So hypothetically if a ball is under-inflated at inspection, it would seem that it is the refs judgement as to whether it complies and can be used.

But once again who knows... At this point it is just unconfirmed, unnamed sourced reports flying back and forth. I don't think any real info can be trusted as any sort of fact at this point. We have numbers like 2lbs from Mort, 1lb from Florio and everything else in between.

Responsibility to judge is not the same as responsibility to comply. The refs are also the sole judge as to whether players commit on-field violations, that doesn't make it the refs' responsibility to prevent guys from pulling each other down by the facemask. The teams/players are still the ones committing the violation, whether that's a personal foul in violation of NFL rules or use of improper game balls in violation of NFL rules. Not getting caught doesn't mean you didn't break the rules, it just means you might be spared from punishment.

Not really. According to the Bears ball inspection video it's regular practice for the refs to measure each ball, and then inflate or deflate as necessary. At that point the refs are the sole judge of whether the ball complies. So the teams have to assume whatever balls have been through the inspection process would them comply. Indeed, after the ref's inspection the teams have no authority under the rule even if they think a ball is over- or under-inflated, because the sole judge of the issue would have already deemed the ball compliant.

In your facemask example the ref is making or missing a call on something that already happened. In the ball example the refs are presenting the teams with something deemed to be compliant. The very fact that the refs have had the balls, and presumedly inspected them, means they are compliant

Hold on- according the the Bears video, the refs were fumbling over a gauge, saying 'close enough', and letting air out of a ball for about 3 seconds trying to get the gauge in properly. I more cynical man might suggest this wasnt something they do 50 times a week.

As far as we know, they only inflate the kicking balls, which are bought by the NFL and solely in their possession.

There is no evidence that in this case, or by and large, that refs measure the balls before games. They inspect them, which is different. A different Bears ball boy, in an interview, said that was the common practice.

Yep. This is another area that the NFL has blown it. They likely don't want it to come to light that their referees aren't all that comprehensive with this portion of game preparation.

 

[GoBirds]

moleculo, on 27 Jan 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

Niles Standish, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:49 AM, said:

GoBirds, on 27 Jan 2015 - 09:34 AM, said:

Niles Standish, on 27 Jan 2015 - 09:22 AM, said:

GoBirds, on 27 Jan 2015 - 08:59 AM, said:

moleculo, on 27 Jan 2015 - 08:41 AM, said:

GoBirds, on 27 Jan 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

moleculo, on 27 Jan 2015 - 07:39 AM, said:

GoBirds, on 27 Jan 2015 - 07:30 AM, said:

Mr. Retukes, on 27 Jan 2015 - 02:30 AM, said:This thread is hilarious. Roger Goodell isn't going anywhere (except to the Super Bowl).

Yeah seriously, no chance Goodell goes anywhere. I don't think he is worried about a bunch of Pats fans on a message board sorry. Any other sports station you turn on thinks the Pats are guilty. If you don't want the NFL investigating you then don't have 11 of 12 balls at illegal size.

Kraft is, from what I understand, Godells biggest advocate. If Kraft no longer has his back, I could see Godell being forced out rather quickly. Hell, half the league wants him out anyways because of the Ray Rice thing, the handling of the concussion stuff, and all of the other misc. arbitrary punishments.

Think about the Ray Rice uproar nationwide when that video got out. If he survived that this won't even be a blip on his radar.

He survived that because Kraft had his back.

That's a little delusional....I know you all think Kraft rules the world but most the owners had his back. A lot of those owners don't like the Patriots.

You do realize Moleculo is one of the salty haters.

So what. You guys call everyone that doesn't make excuses one.

You're calling a guy out who doesn't like the Pats for being blinded by his love for them. That's all. Doesn't mean you have to agree with him, but he's not blinded by his love for all things Pats like you implied.

actually, I like the Patriots. I just don't like most Patriot fans on this board.

Boom goes the dynamite.

 

[12punch]

maybe the kid only deflated 2 balls while he was in there

 

[randall146]

Each team is responsible for supplying footballs... who is responsible for inflating them properly? Has that been addressed?

I think the refs. The rule states:

"The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications."

So hypothetically if a ball is under-inflated at inspection, it would seem that it is the refs judgement as to whether it complies and can be used.

But once again who knows... At this point it is just unconfirmed, unnamed sourced reports flying back and forth. I don't think any real info can be trusted as any sort of fact at this point. We have numbers like 2lbs from Mort, 1lb from Florio and everything else in between.

Responsibility to judge is not the same as responsibility to comply. The refs are also the sole judge as to whether players commit on-field violations, that doesn't make it the refs' responsibility to prevent guys from pulling each other down by the facemask. The teams/players are still the ones committing the violation, whether that's a personal foul in violation of NFL rules or use of improper game balls in violation of NFL rules. Not getting caught doesn't mean you didn't break the rules, it just means you might be spared from punishment.

Not really. According to the Bears ball inspection video it's regular practice for the refs to measure each ball, and then inflate or deflate as necessary. At that point the refs are the sole judge of whether the ball complies. So the teams have to assume whatever balls have been through the inspection process would them comply. Indeed, after the ref's inspection the teams have no authority under the rule even if they think a ball is over- or under-inflated, because the sole judge of the issue would have already deemed the ball compliant.

In your facemask example the ref is making or missing a call on something that already happened. In the ball example the refs are presenting the teams with something deemed to be compliant. The very fact that the refs have had the balls, and presumedly inspected them, means they are compliant

Hold on- according the the Bears video, the refs were fumbling over a gauge, saying 'close enough', and letting air out of a ball for about 3 seconds trying to get the gauge in properly. I more cynical man might suggest this wasnt something they do 50 times a week.

As far as we know, they only inflate the kicking balls, which are bought by the NFL and solely in their possession.

There is no evidence that in this case, or by and large, that refs measure the balls before games. They inspect them, which is different. A different Bears ball boy, in an interview, said that was the common practice.

I totally agree that the Bears video makes it look like the refs don't usually do actual measurements, and I've repeatedly argued that the league doesn't care either, because they want the QBs to use whatever pressure balls they want.

I was responding to the contention that the refs didn't have a responsibility to bring the balls into compliance. Whether the refs inspect or not, once the balls go from the refs back to the teams, they've been deemed compliant according to the rules.

It's also worth noting that we've gone from "There must have been tampering because the balls lost 2 PSI after the refs inspected them with gauges" to "the Pats are cheating because they know the refs aren't going to check."

 

[12punch]

I totally agree that the Bears video makes it look like the refs don't usually do actual measurements, and I've repeatedly argued that the league doesn't care either, because they want the QBs to use whatever pressure balls they want.

I was responding to the contention that the refs didn't have a responsibility to bring the balls into compliance. Whether the refs inspect or not, once the balls go from the refs back to the teams, they've been deemed compliant according to the rules.

It's also worth noting that we've gone from "There must have been tampering because the balls lost 2 PSI after the refs inspected them with gauges" to "the Pats are cheating because they know the refs aren't going to check."

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

Has anyone checked this mysterious bathroom for a hatch door and an underground tunnel?

 

[randall146]

I totally agree that the Bears video makes it look like the refs don't usually do actual measurements, and I've repeatedly argued that the league doesn't care either, because they want the QBs to use whatever pressure balls they want.

I was responding to the contention that the refs didn't have a responsibility to bring the balls into compliance. Whether the refs inspect or not, once the balls go from the refs back to the teams, they've been deemed compliant according to the rules.

It's also worth noting that we've gone from "There must have been tampering because the balls lost 2 PSI after the refs inspected them with gauges" to "the Pats are cheating because they know the refs aren't going to check."

Good catch

 

[Bossman]

Bottom line? All of this is caused by the refs...because they didnt do their job. Who would've thought!

.... give the ref a break ... he had a lot more to worry about that day than football psi.

Not to mention that he had to be back home to open the drug store at 9am the next morning.

 

[Thunderlips]

ROCKET, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:Almost forgot to ask: When someone finds a video of some guy going into a bathroom with a bag of balls and deflating 12 balls 2 psi in 90 seconds please link. TIA.

That's what I think will save them...no way there is a camera in a 1 stall bathroom so there will never be absolute proof.

Honestly not sure about how hard it is to deflate.....I assume you just stick the needle in and squeeze some air out? I only have inflated my balls.

So you can't come up with a logical approximate time it would take for someone to deflate 12 balls in a bathroom? If the guy had 90 seconds from the time he opened the door to the time he came out that would (by my math) leave him roughly 7 seconds per ball?

Sound plausible to you?

The problem is the logistics of opening the bag, pulling out a ball, deflating, setting on the floor (you dont want to risk deflating the same ball twice), getting the next ball, repeat 11 times, then stuffing them back into the bag without balls rolling all over the place, all in 90 seconds.

You'd almost surely need accomplices, which if this was what the Pats schemed to do, why not have a couple guys waiting in the bathroom to execute it. The video would tell that story. Maybe it did, but you'd think that would have been leaked for sure.

It would be pretty easy to do in 90 seconds. Open the bag wide, take a needle, stick it in each ball for about 3 seconds, and move to the next. But the question is why? Why are we assuming that he committed a crime? Whats the point? Just because the balls were deflated a little bit during the game? We've already established, unless someone can provide evidence otherwise, that weather alone can provide for a significant reduction in psi. So why the need for a rogue ballboy?

I don't think it would be as easy as you think. You would need to guage the balls to get the desired psi. You could do the 3 second rule and yes it would get them closer to the desired psi but there would be big fluctuations. If you wanted to get the balls perfect then why wouldn't you take the time to do it right? What's the hurry?

It wouldn't take more than another couple minutes to guage them. The time it takes for a healthy dump and wipe which you could do at the same time. Just come out and tell the NFL inspectors that were following you " I wouldn't go in there if I was you"

Like anything else.....If you've done it before and practice it...it wouldn't take any time at all

 

[randall146]

While we're all here, is SoSH blocked for any of my Town of New England Brohongis?

 

[12punch]

I can perfectly understand the inferiority complex, or little man's syndrome, from fans of 31 other teams who need to find some reason the pats are repeatedly whipping their collective asses every year.

 

[Old Smiley]

Mike Sando, ESPN.com @SandoESPN · 12h 12 hours ago@ProFootballTalk 21 seconds is average urination time for mammals, fyi.

So, we know that now.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

ROCKET, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:Almost forgot to ask: When someone finds a video of some guy going into a bathroom with a bag of balls and deflating 12 balls 2 psi in 90 seconds please link. TIA.

That's what I think will save them...no way there is a camera in a 1 stall bathroom so there will never be absolute proof.

Honestly not sure about how hard it is to deflate.....I assume you just stick the needle in and squeeze some air out? I only have inflated my balls.

If you stick a needle in with the needle not attached to anything it will vent air on its own. Takes some skill to deflate 12 footballs in a bag using just timing in only 90 seconds..

It's probably not that hard if you've been doing it for many years...

 

[12punch]

While we're all here, is SoSH blocked for any of my Town of New England Brohongis?

works fine for me

lol 'bay of pigskins'

 

[Witz]

I can perfectly understand the inferiority complex, or little man's syndrome, from fans of 31 other teams who need to find some reason the pats are repeatedly whipping their collective asses every year.

2004

 

[Leroy Hoard]

I can perfectly understand the inferiority complex, or little man's syndrome, from fans of 31 other teams who need to find some reason the pats are repeatedly whipping their collective asses every year.

2004

Rip Van Pats Fan.

 

[GoBirds]

Leroy Hoard, on 27 Jan 2015 - 12:08 PM, said:

Witz, on 27 Jan 2015 - 12:07 PM, said:

12punch, on 27 Jan 2015 - 12:02 PM, said:I can perfectly understand the inferiority complex, or little man's syndrome, from fans of 31 other teams who need to find some reason the pats are repeatedly whipping their collective asses every year.

2004

Rip Van Pats Fan.

And they wonder why everyone love it when they get caught cheating.

 

[12punch]

Leroy Hoard, on 27 Jan 2015 - 12:08 PM, said:

Witz, on 27 Jan 2015 - 12:07 PM, said:

12punch, on 27 Jan 2015 - 12:02 PM, said:I can perfectly understand the inferiority complex, or little man's syndrome, from fans of 31 other teams who need to find some reason the pats are repeatedly whipping their collective asses every year.

2004

Rip Van Pats Fan.

And they wonder why everyone love it when they get caught cheating.

of course we don't wonder --- that was just explained to you, and you even quoted it.

some of you salty trolls maybe need some caffeine or adderall, or something

 

[General Tso]

Each team is responsible for supplying footballs... who is responsible for inflating them properly? Has that been addressed?

I think the refs. The rule states:

"The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications."

So hypothetically if a ball is under-inflated at inspection, it would seem that it is the refs judgement as to whether it complies and can be used.

But once again who knows... At this point it is just unconfirmed, unnamed sourced reports flying back and forth. I don't think any real info can be trusted as any sort of fact at this point. We have numbers like 2lbs from Mort, 1lb from Florio and everything else in between.

Well, it would seem to be perfectly legal then to present the refs with a bag full of balls inflated to 10.5psi and let the refs decide whether they are suitable or not. I agree with RKK the NFL owes the Patriots, BB, and Tom Brady an apology. And a SB win.

Yes perfectly legal BUT sleazy, deceitful, underhanded, (insert adjective here) and was still cheating. We know the Pats and their sketchy past so they would be the only team to even try something so low, liars, guilty etc. The NFL is just sweeping this under the rug because Goodell and Kraft are bro's.!I'm just trying to get everyone ready for the onslaught that is coming from the inbred masses. This will be their mantra.

So the same statements and indignation apply to Rodgers, correct? And any other QB or team that does the same thing, right? Be careful casting those stones my friend. The Pats have said that they give the balls to the refs and instruct them to inflate to 12.5 if any are found out of the range. The rule says clearly that it is the ref's responsibility, not the team, to inspect the balls pregame and approve them for use. It's ridiculous to now call the Patriots cheaters because the refs didn't do their job. And to do that selectively is even more bush league.

 

[Bayhawks]

ROCKET, on 27 Jan 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:Almost forgot to ask: When someone finds a video of some guy going into a bathroom with a bag of balls and deflating 12 balls 2 psi in 90 seconds please link. TIA.

That's what I think will save them...no way there is a camera in a 1 stall bathroom so there will never be absolute proof.

Honestly not sure about how hard it is to deflate.....I assume you just stick the needle in and squeeze some air out? I only have inflated my balls.

So you can't come up with a logical approximate time it would take for someone to deflate 12 balls in a bathroom? If the guy had 90 seconds from the time he opened the door to the time he came out that would (by my math) leave him roughly 7 seconds per ball?

Sound plausible to you?

The problem is the logistics of opening the bag, pulling out a ball, deflating, setting on the floor (you dont want to risk deflating the same ball twice), getting the next ball, repeat 11 times, then stuffing them back into the bag without balls rolling all over the place, all in 90 seconds.

You'd almost surely need accomplices, which if this was what the Pats schemed to do, why not have a couple guys waiting in the bathroom to execute it. The video would tell that story. Maybe it did, but you'd think that would have been leaked for sure.

It would be pretty easy to do in 90 seconds. Open the bag wide, take a needle, stick it in each ball for about 3 seconds, and move to the next. But the question is why? Why are we assuming that he committed a crime? Whats the point? Just because the balls were deflated a little bit during the game? We've already established, unless someone can provide evidence otherwise, that weather alone can provide for a significant reduction in psi. So why the need for a rogue ballboy?

Weather would not affect just the Patriots balls. You can take weather out of it.

No I won't take the weather out of it, unless you can prove that the Colts balls were measured throughout the game? Especially if 10 of the Patriots balls only fell 1 psi.

I'm so sick of this "what about the Colts balls" argument I could scream. There is NO PROOF THAT THE COLTS BALLS WERE EVER MEASURED.

NONE

The whole "what about the Colts balls" argument is null and void unless the NFL can provide extensive details on what/where/when the Colts balls were measured.

In your opinion, it's null and void, but (unless you are working for the NFL), your opinion won't have any impact on the decision the NFL makes in this situation. Shouting (in all caps or bold lettering) that you are sick of this question on a FF message board won't make it null and void, nor will it make it more valid if someone else brings it up again.

It is a question/comment being posted on a message board, don't get so bent out of shape about it.

 

[Niles Standish]

This thread is hilarious. Roger Goodell isn't going anywhere (except to the Super Bowl).

Yeah seriously, no chance Goodell goes anywhere. I don't think he is worried about a bunch of Pats fans on a message board sorry. Any other sports station you turn on thinks the Pats are guilty. If you don't want the NFL investigating you then don't have 11 of 12 balls at illegal size.

Kraft is, from what I understand, Godells biggest advocate. If Kraft no longer has his back, I could see Godell being forced out rather quickly. Hell, half the league wants him out anyways because of the Ray Rice thing, the handling of the concussion stuff, and all of the other misc. arbitrary punishments.

Think about the Ray Rice uproar nationwide when that video got out. If he survived that this won't even be a blip on his radar.

He survived that because Kraft had his back.

That's a little delusional....I know you all think Kraft rules the world but most the owners had his back. A lot of those owners don't like the Patriots.

You do realize Moleculo is one of the salty haters.

So what. You guys call everyone that doesn't make excuses one.

You're calling a guy out who doesn't like the Pats for being blinded by his love for them. That's all. Doesn't mean you have to agree with him, but he's not blinded by his love for all things Pats like you implied.

actually, I like the Patriots. I just don't like most Patriot fans on this board.

I thought you were a Broncos guy. My mistake.

You helped me make the decision to buy Broncos season tickets a few years ago. Former ticket holder yourself