Patriots being investigated after Colts game (3 Viewers)

[espnespn]

A lot of armchair scientist in here all of the sudden....will be interesting to see how these theories hold up.

I'm not sure people claiming tires deflate in winter qualify as 'scientists', but I guess it's all in your perspective

If that's all it takes I'm just thankful that the Packers can finish home games in December without the ball turning to a prune in single digits.

Or just maybe 2psi, or 4 or 6, isnt nearly as much as you suppose.

6 isn't much? Isn't 12.5 the minimum? Almost half flat or am I understanding this wrong?

no, you understand it right --- all those games they play in -70 degree weather would result in a significantly deflated ball

The difference is significantly noticeable at 2 psi, would a game near 0 degrees be more than that?

Yes, thanks for proving my point. Ipso facto, its not significantly noticeable.

How would games be able to go on in single digits when this game that was in the 40's (?) Has caused the biggest uproar ever over 1 or 2 psi? Assuming the balls were inflated in 70 degree temps to back up your theory but somehow the Colts balls (that were brought to field at same time from inside ) must have been filled outside in the cold?

Just want to confirm this scenario we are operating under.

No one has provided any proof that the Colts balls were measured by the refs prior to the game. But a few possible theories for the Colts balls are:

1) The Colts filled their footballs when they were lower than room temperature. As the visiting team, I doubt the Colts store their balls overnight inside the Patriots stadium. Maybe they stowed them in the storage bin of the team bus overnight. In any event, Colts fill their footballs before they are room temperature, and give them to the refs. The Colts ball PSI doesn't drop much here according to the Ideal Gas Law.

2) The Colts filled their footballs at room temperature to 13.5 PSI. Patriots fill to 12.5 PSI. Weather conditions make PSI of all balls drop 1 PSI. Colts balls are still at 12.5 PSI and compliant, and eleven Patriots balls are at 11.5 PSI. The intercepted Patriots ball that is 2 PSI lower was actually 1 PSI lower, but tampered with by the Colts. Maybe the Colts tested the ball PSI, and saw it was 11.5 PSI, and then kept re-testing it to show other people on the team, which led to more PSI lost. Or maybe that last ball was actually defective and had a slow leak. The possibilities are endless.

 

[[icon]]

This thread is proof that Obama needs to create some jobs...

 

[[icon]]

This thread is proof that Obama needs to create some jobs...

 

[General Tso]

A couple questions to the Pats fans.

If it comes out that all the Colts and Pats balls were all weighed pregame and it is found out that the Colts balls had a negligible drop of .1 psi while the Pats balls all lost 2 pounds, will you then drop the PSI angle and admit that something else must have caused the balls to deflate?

If it is found out that an equipment guy deflated the ball, would you believe he was doing it completely on his own accord if Brady and Belicheck still denied any involvement?

I'm just wondering how far the burden of proof needs to go. Do we need to find Brady with a pump needle stuck up his ### and a videotape of Belickeck giving him the pump?

1. If the Balls were gauge tested pregame and at halftime, and if the Pats balls dropped 2 psi more than the Colts, I would have serious doubts. It would mean one of three things occurred:a) The Pats deflated the balls with a needle.

b) The Colts inflated balls with a pump to offset the atmospheric effects causing the Pats balls to drop.

c) The Pats or the Colts prep procedures would have to be looked at to see if there was any hot air or cold air in the balls right before they were measured.

2. If anyone admits to deflating balls, I will be convinced that they did it at the direction of Brady. I would not be able to make the same leap about BB.

3. My burden of proof here is beyond a reasonable doubt. I don't think you can take down the careers of the NFL's greatest head coach and one of its greatest QB's with merely a preponderance of the evidence. It has to go further than that. For myself, I'd have to be more than 80% convinced that balls were deflated after the pregame inspected.

Florio says the standard being used in this case will be a preponderance of the evidence - 51%. Bad news for the Pats, and anyone else who is ever accused of misconduct in the NFL. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/27/low-standard-of-proof-applies-to-deflategate/

 

[Bossman]

I bet that if someone had a little practice, they could easily reach into the bag of footballs (without removing the balls) and release just the right amount of air from all 12 within 90 seconds with one of these ...

http://www.amazon.com/Agora-Ball-Pressure-Gauge-Dial/dp/B008TVIZKO

• Large easy to read pressure gauge with air release valve for convenience.

... although this model didn't get a very good review

 

[mbuehner]

So your thinking since the Colts requested it that it's something that was never tested before(in game) and for that game their balls were not checked since Pats didn't request it?

I dont think they check very often pregame. Im positive they never check them during game unless they are challenged.

Fair point, I could see that. With these projected PSI changes though it just seems like something players would mention even as significant the change would be projected to extreme temps.

Not sure I buy that aspect but I can see the rule as something loosely monitored due to teams not aggressively inspecting others to date. One of those rules we won't really know how on top of it the NFL was until investigation comes out.

Yeah, i do think the evidence points that way. I wish we could hear some refs talking openly.

 

[Old Smiley]

So I need an update on today. Was the "ball boy attendant" just taking a whizz? seems plausible for 90 sec.

I think it was a dump and he forgot to wipe.

I cant take credit but somebody noted its just enough time to deflate two balls.

Katy Perry at halftime baby.

 

[JIslander]

So I need an update on today. Was the "ball boy attendant" just taking a whizz? seems plausible for 90 sec.

I think it was a dump and he forgot to wipe.

I cant take credit but somebody noted its just enough time to deflate two balls.

Katy Perry at halftime baby.

May be universal ball deflation with a wardrobe malfunction.

 

[General Tso]

Lol listening to BB's Q&A from today.

Q1: Barstoolsports, we went out to dinner in Nantucket, why don't you remember me?

A1: You got it.

Q2: Second part of this question, moving forward, if you need anybody murdered--especially felger, maz, or goodell--im your guy.

That was Dave Portnoy. Right after that he went on the Felger & Mazz show and ripped both of them a new hole for their ridiculous anti-Pats viewpoint on this issue. It was incredible. You wouldn't know it by his pregame stunt, but he is smart as a whip and really really talented. We'll be hearing a lot more from him in the coming years.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

This is almost as big a mystery as Malaysia Airlines Flight 370

 

[Chaz McNulty]

I bet that if someone had a little practice, they could easily reach into the bag of footballs (without removing the balls) and release just the right amount of air from all 12 within 90 seconds with one of these ...

http://www.amazon.com/Agora-Ball-Pressure-Gauge-Dial/dp/B008TVIZKO

• Large easy to read pressure gauge with air release valve for convenience.

... although this model didn't get a very good review

It probably only takes a couple seconds per ball. I know when you stick a pin in a soccer ball it deflates quickly.

 

[Morton Muffley]

So Bill Nye (alleged science guy but confirmed Seahawks fan) posted a video attempting to refute Belichick's explanation of the Deflategate hypothesis.

Unfortunately for Nye he makes two glaring mistakes that accidentally end up proving both Belichick AND tom Brady's points!

First, he says "imagine you are in a sweaty lockeroom that is 80dF and you inflate the footballs...then you move them to a field at 51dF" He then states that this change of approximately 30dF would result in "about a 6% change" [in psi] and that ZING "you'd be off by a factor of 2.5!" Here the 2.5 factor refers to a 2psi change being a 15% difference (6% x 2.5=15%). The problem is that he is making the same miscalculation that Neil deGrasse Tyson made (and recently retracted/corrected) of using gauge pressure instead of absolute pressure. Interestingly, when you use the correct pressure calcs, the 2 psi diff is actually a 7% diff and thus pretty close to the stated 6% diff that he can explain with the30dF temperature drop. Furthermore, it is VERY VERY far away from the "off by a factor of 2.5"...which again is undoubtedly the incorrect 15% that Tyson was first using.

Second, at the end of the video the timer goes off and he says "we just got this ball out of the fridge" at 51dF. He squeezes the ball and declares that it is "pretty much the same!!!" But since we know the ideal gas law has reduced the pressure in that ball by about 1.5psi we now have a debunker who is declaring that Tom Brady is correct in being unable to tell the impact that a small drop in psi has on a football.

Here is the video for any who care to watch Nye disprove everything he thought he was proving.

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/1/27/7921727/bill-nye-explains-deflategate-video

 

[T J]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

 

[bostonfred]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

scariest thing about our legal system right here.

 

[Run It Up]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

• Brady was pretty obviously lying.
• Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous.
• The fact is the balls were good at game time
• You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this

This is whats wrong with this thread. Since people are allowed to freely post here, it creates the false assumption that your opinion is equal. It isn't, you're opinion is worth less.

 

[Tango]

So Bill Nye (alleged science guy but confirmed Seahawks fan) posted a video attempting to refute Belichick's explanation of the Deflategate hypothesis.

Unfortunately for Nye he makes two glaring mistakes that accidentally end up proving both Belichick AND tom Brady's points!

First, he says "imagine you are in a sweaty lockeroom that is 80dF and you inflate the footballs...then you move them to a field at 51dF" He then states that this change of approximately 30dF would result in "about a 6% change" [in psi] and that ZING "you'd be off by a factor of 2.5!" Here the 2.5 factor refers to a 2psi change being a 15% difference (6% x 2.5=15%). The problem is that he is making the same miscalculation that Neil deGrasse Tyson made (and recently retracted/corrected) of using gauge pressure instead of absolute pressure. Interestingly, when you use the correct pressure calcs, the 2 psi diff is actually a 7% diff and thus pretty close to the stated 6% diff that he can explain with the30dF temperature drop. Furthermore, it is VERY VERY far away from the "off by a factor of 2.5"...which is again is undoubtedly is the incorrect 15% that Tyson was first using.

Second, at the end of the video the timer goes off and he says "we just got this ball out of the fridge" at 51dF. He squeezes the ball and declares that it is "pretty much the same!!!" But since we know the ideal gas law has reduced the pressure in that ball by about 1.5psi we now have a debunker who is declaring that Tom Brady is correct in being unable to tell the impact that a small drop in psi has on a football.

Here is the video for any who care to watch Nye disprove everything he thought he was proving.

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/1/27/7921727/bill-nye-explains-deflategate-video

More than Nye says the Patriots science is way off:

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24997479/neil-degrasse-tyson-science-from-belichick-patriots-doesnt-add-up

 

[Run It Up]

So Bill Nye (alleged science guy but confirmed Seahawks fan) posted a video attempting to refute Belichick's explanation of the Deflategate hypothesis.

Unfortunately for Nye he makes two glaring mistakes that accidentally end up proving both Belichick AND tom Brady's points!

First, he says "imagine you are in a sweaty lockeroom that is 80dF and you inflate the footballs...then you move them to a field at 51dF" He then states that this change of approximately 30dF would result in "about a 6% change" [in psi] and that ZING "you'd be off by a factor of 2.5!" Here the 2.5 factor refers to a 2psi change being a 15% difference (6% x 2.5=15%). The problem is that he is making the same miscalculation that Neil deGrasse Tyson made (and recently retracted/corrected) of using gauge pressure instead of absolute pressure. Interestingly, when you use the correct pressure calcs, the 2 psi diff is actually a 7% diff and thus pretty close to the stated 6% diff that he can explain with the30dF temperature drop. Furthermore, it is VERY VERY far away from the "off by a factor of 2.5"...which is again is undoubtedly is the incorrect 15% that Tyson was first using.

Second, at the end of the video the timer goes off and he says "we just got this ball out of the fridge" at 51dF. He squeezes the ball and declares that it is "pretty much the same!!!" But since we know the ideal gas law has reduced the pressure in that ball by about 1.5psi we now have a debunker who is declaring that Tom Brady is correct in being unable to tell the impact that a small drop in psi has on a football.

Here is the video for any who care to watch Nye disprove everything he thought he was proving.

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/1/27/7921727/bill-nye-explains-deflategate-video

More than Nye says the Patriots science is way off:

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24997479/neil-degrasse-tyson-science-from-belichick-patriots-doesnt-add-up

Welcome to yesterday, today NDT admitted he was wrong.

 

[T J]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

• Brady was pretty obviously lying.
• Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous.
• The fact is the balls were good at game time
• You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this

This is whats wrong with this thread. Since people are allowed to freely post here, it creates the false assumption that your opinion is equal. It isn't, you're opinion is worth less.

That's funny. You make me laugh funny man.

 

[Green and Gold]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

Now imagine that all the information you had to base your decision on was whispered to you by a random guy on the street rather than testimony in the trial.

 

[General Tso]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

Please tell me this is sarcasm.

 

[Run It Up]

Half of this thread right now and for the past week.

 

[Tango]

The most interesting tidbit I heard today was around 39 minutes into Francesa's show where he not so gently hinted that reputable former Patriots staff (ie not disgruntled ex employees) are talking off the record and the stories they share do not help the current Pats' credibility.

 

[Run It Up]

The most interesting tidbit I heard today was around 39 minutes into Francesa's show where he not so gently hinted that reputable former Patriots staff (ie not disgruntled ex employees) are talking off the record and the stories they share do not help the current Pats' credibility.

How exactly do off the record stories hurt anyone?

 

[T J]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

Now imagine that all the information you had to base your decision on was whispered to you by a random guy on the street rather than testimony in the trial.

Huh? Not sure I follow.

 

[T J]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

Please tell me this is sarcasm.

This is so NOT sarcasm. Could I be wrong? Sure. But it's what I believe 100% to be happening.

 

[espnespn]

So Bill Nye (alleged science guy but confirmed Seahawks fan) posted a video attempting to refute Belichick's explanation of the Deflategate hypothesis.

Unfortunately for Nye he makes two glaring mistakes that accidentally end up proving both Belichick AND tom Brady's points!

First, he says "imagine you are in a sweaty lockeroom that is 80dF and you inflate the footballs...then you move them to a field at 51dF" He then states that this change of approximately 30dF would result in "about a 6% change" [in psi] and that ZING "you'd be off by a factor of 2.5!" Here the 2.5 factor refers to a 2psi change being a 15% difference (6% x 2.5=15%). The problem is that he is making the same miscalculation that Neil deGrasse Tyson made (and recently retracted/corrected) of using gauge pressure instead of absolute pressure. Interestingly, when you use the correct pressure calcs, the 2 psi diff is actually a 7% diff and thus pretty close to the stated 6% diff that he can explain with the30dF temperature drop. Furthermore, it is VERY VERY far away from the "off by a factor of 2.5"...which is again is undoubtedly is the incorrect 15% that Tyson was first using.

Second, at the end of the video the timer goes off and he says "we just got this ball out of the fridge" at 51dF. He squeezes the ball and declares that it is "pretty much the same!!!" But since we know the ideal gas law has reduced the pressure in that ball by about 1.5psi we now have a debunker who is declaring that Tom Brady is correct in being unable to tell the impact that a small drop in psi has on a football.

Here is the video for any who care to watch Nye disprove everything he thought he was proving.

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/1/27/7921727/bill-nye-explains-deflategate-video

More than Nye says the Patriots science is way off:

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24997479/neil-degrasse-tyson-science-from-belichick-patriots-doesnt-add-up

It's like a never-ending flood of scientific ignorance.

Please google Ideal Gas Law, plug in the numbers for the calculation, and you can see for yourself that Bill Nye and Neil Tyson screwed up basic math. This is stuff you should have learned in high school! SMH.

 

[Tango]

So Bill Nye (alleged science guy but confirmed Seahawks fan) posted a video attempting to refute Belichick's explanation of the Deflategate hypothesis.

Unfortunately for Nye he makes two glaring mistakes that accidentally end up proving both Belichick AND tom Brady's points!

First, he says "imagine you are in a sweaty lockeroom that is 80dF and you inflate the footballs...then you move them to a field at 51dF" He then states that this change of approximately 30dF would result in "about a 6% change" [in psi] and that ZING "you'd be off by a factor of 2.5!" Here the 2.5 factor refers to a 2psi change being a 15% difference (6% x 2.5=15%). The problem is that he is making the same miscalculation that Neil deGrasse Tyson made (and recently retracted/corrected) of using gauge pressure instead of absolute pressure. Interestingly, when you use the correct pressure calcs, the 2 psi diff is actually a 7% diff and thus pretty close to the stated 6% diff that he can explain with the30dF temperature drop. Furthermore, it is VERY VERY far away from the "off by a factor of 2.5"...which is again is undoubtedly is the incorrect 15% that Tyson was first using.

Second, at the end of the video the timer goes off and he says "we just got this ball out of the fridge" at 51dF. He squeezes the ball and declares that it is "pretty much the same!!!" But since we know the ideal gas law has reduced the pressure in that ball by about 1.5psi we now have a debunker who is declaring that Tom Brady is correct in being unable to tell the impact that a small drop in psi has on a football.

Here is the video for any who care to watch Nye disprove everything he thought he was proving.

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/1/27/7921727/bill-nye-explains-deflategate-video

More than Nye says the Patriots science is way off:http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24997479/neil-degrasse-tyson-science-from-belichick-patriots-doesnt-add-up

Welcome to yesterday, today NDT admitted he was wrong.

Right! He corrected to say the temperature needed to be greater than a mere 90 degrees! So, to summarize, Patriots fans' latest theory is that the balls were inflated at Brady's grandmas house where she has the heat turned up to 95.

 

[Morton Muffley]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

scariest thing about our legal system right here.

Agreed, frightening. And for the record I am being quite serious.

It's friggin middle school science people. It isn't hard! I had no idea what the ideal gas law was until three days ago, but I used this opportunity to teach myself. It took 15 minutes for crissake. I realize that is time that could be better spent watching dancing with the stars or following Kim kardashian's derrière on twitter but I felt it was time well spent.

Anyway, carry on.

 

[Tango]

So Bill Nye (alleged science guy but confirmed Seahawks fan) posted a video attempting to refute Belichick's explanation of the Deflategate hypothesis.

Unfortunately for Nye he makes two glaring mistakes that accidentally end up proving both Belichick AND tom Brady's points!

First, he says "imagine you are in a sweaty lockeroom that is 80dF and you inflate the footballs...then you move them to a field at 51dF" He then states that this change of approximately 30dF would result in "about a 6% change" [in psi] and that ZING "you'd be off by a factor of 2.5!" Here the 2.5 factor refers to a 2psi change being a 15% difference (6% x 2.5=15%). The problem is that he is making the same miscalculation that Neil deGrasse Tyson made (and recently retracted/corrected) of using gauge pressure instead of absolute pressure. Interestingly, when you use the correct pressure calcs, the 2 psi diff is actually a 7% diff and thus pretty close to the stated 6% diff that he can explain with the30dF temperature drop. Furthermore, it is VERY VERY far away from the "off by a factor of 2.5"...which is again is undoubtedly is the incorrect 15% that Tyson was first using.

Second, at the end of the video the timer goes off and he says "we just got this ball out of the fridge" at 51dF. He squeezes the ball and declares that it is "pretty much the same!!!" But since we know the ideal gas law has reduced the pressure in that ball by about 1.5psi we now have a debunker who is declaring that Tom Brady is correct in being unable to tell the impact that a small drop in psi has on a football.

Here is the video for any who care to watch Nye disprove everything he thought he was proving.

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/1/27/7921727/bill-nye-explains-deflategate-video

More than Nye says the Patriots science is way off:http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24997479/neil-degrasse-tyson-science-from-belichick-patriots-doesnt-add-up

It's like a never-ending flood of scientific ignorance.

Please google Ideal Gas Law, plug in the numbers for the calculation, and you can see for yourself that Bill Nye and Neil Tyson screwed up basic math. This is stuff you should have learned in high school! SMH.

Right, greater than 90 degrees. All this does is bury the Pats further. Even the corrections prove the Pats wrong.

 

[Run It Up]

Kraft on Sherman's comments:

"I think Richard Sherman is a very smart marketing whiz," Kraft responded Tuesday at Super Bowl XLIX media day.

"If you go into the facts of what he said, the NFL always used to pay for a big party for the AFC Championship Game. We've been privileged to own the team for 21 years, and this was our 10th championship game. When the league stopped giving the parties, we started doing it. This is our third one."

Kraft explained the party at his home was for the Patriots' lead sponsors, which ultimately helps the NFL and the club grow revenues.

"I think Mr. Sherman understood that he's the biggest beneficiary, because they get over 50 percent of the revenues. So he didn't go to Harvard, but Stanford must be pretty good because he figured it out," Kraft said.

 

[General Tso]

The most interesting tidbit I heard today was around 39 minutes into Francesa's show where he not so gently hinted that reputable former Patriots staff (ie not disgruntled ex employees) are talking off the record and the stories they share do not help the current Pats' credibility.

I have been one of Mike's biggest fans for over 20 years. But he is hopelessly biased when it comes to the Pats and any allegation of cheating. He won't even read or listen to any evidence or reports suggesting the Pats may be innocent. His mind was made up before this began.

 

[T J]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

scariest thing about our legal system right here.

Agreed, frightening. And for the record I am being quite serious.

It's friggin middle school science people. It isn't hard! I had no idea what the ideal gas law was until three days ago, but I used this opportunity to teach myself. It took 15 minutes for crissake. I realize that is time that could be better spent watching dancing with the stars or following Kim kardashian's derrière on twitter but I felt it was time well spent.

Anyway, carry on.

If you mean that it's easy to throw people off what their common sense tells them by distracting them from what their common sense says, then yes, I agree. Frightening.

 

[Run It Up]

So Bill Nye (alleged science guy but confirmed Seahawks fan) posted a video attempting to refute Belichick's explanation of the Deflategate hypothesis.

Unfortunately for Nye he makes two glaring mistakes that accidentally end up proving both Belichick AND tom Brady's points!

First, he says "imagine you are in a sweaty lockeroom that is 80dF and you inflate the footballs...then you move them to a field at 51dF" He then states that this change of approximately 30dF would result in "about a 6% change" [in psi] and that ZING "you'd be off by a factor of 2.5!" Here the 2.5 factor refers to a 2psi change being a 15% difference (6% x 2.5=15%). The problem is that he is making the same miscalculation that Neil deGrasse Tyson made (and recently retracted/corrected) of using gauge pressure instead of absolute pressure. Interestingly, when you use the correct pressure calcs, the 2 psi diff is actually a 7% diff and thus pretty close to the stated 6% diff that he can explain with the30dF temperature drop. Furthermore, it is VERY VERY far away from the "off by a factor of 2.5"...which is again is undoubtedly is the incorrect 15% that Tyson was first using.

Second, at the end of the video the timer goes off and he says "we just got this ball out of the fridge" at 51dF. He squeezes the ball and declares that it is "pretty much the same!!!" But since we know the ideal gas law has reduced the pressure in that ball by about 1.5psi we now have a debunker who is declaring that Tom Brady is correct in being unable to tell the impact that a small drop in psi has on a football.

Here is the video for any who care to watch Nye disprove everything he thought he was proving.

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/1/27/7921727/bill-nye-explains-deflategate-video

More than Nye says the Patriots science is way off:http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24997479/neil-degrasse-tyson-science-from-belichick-patriots-doesnt-add-up

Welcome to yesterday, today NDT admitted he was wrong.

Right! He corrected to say the temperature needed to be greater than a mere 90 degrees!So, to summarize, Patriots fans' latest theory is that the balls were inflated at Brady's grandmas house where she has the heat turned up to 95.

No, they were heated using friction, which the Pats openly admitted to, on Friday, last week.

 

[espnespn]

So Bill Nye (alleged science guy but confirmed Seahawks fan) posted a video attempting to refute Belichick's explanation of the Deflategate hypothesis.

Unfortunately for Nye he makes two glaring mistakes that accidentally end up proving both Belichick AND tom Brady's points!

First, he says "imagine you are in a sweaty lockeroom that is 80dF and you inflate the footballs...then you move them to a field at 51dF" He then states that this change of approximately 30dF would result in "about a 6% change" [in psi] and that ZING "you'd be off by a factor of 2.5!" Here the 2.5 factor refers to a 2psi change being a 15% difference (6% x 2.5=15%). The problem is that he is making the same miscalculation that Neil deGrasse Tyson made (and recently retracted/corrected) of using gauge pressure instead of absolute pressure. Interestingly, when you use the correct pressure calcs, the 2 psi diff is actually a 7% diff and thus pretty close to the stated 6% diff that he can explain with the30dF temperature drop. Furthermore, it is VERY VERY far away from the "off by a factor of 2.5"...which is again is undoubtedly is the incorrect 15% that Tyson was first using.

Second, at the end of the video the timer goes off and he says "we just got this ball out of the fridge" at 51dF. He squeezes the ball and declares that it is "pretty much the same!!!" But since we know the ideal gas law has reduced the pressure in that ball by about 1.5psi we now have a debunker who is declaring that Tom Brady is correct in being unable to tell the impact that a small drop in psi has on a football.

Here is the video for any who care to watch Nye disprove everything he thought he was proving.

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/1/27/7921727/bill-nye-explains-deflategate-video

More than Nye says the Patriots science is way off:http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24997479/neil-degrasse-tyson-science-from-belichick-patriots-doesnt-add-up

It's like a never-ending flood of scientific ignorance.

Please google Ideal Gas Law, plug in the numbers for the calculation, and you can see for yourself that Bill Nye and Neil Tyson screwed up basic math. This is stuff you should have learned in high school! SMH.

Right, greater than 90 degrees. All this does is bury the Pats further.Even the corrections prove the Pats wrong.

Did you even bother to do the calculation yourself? It is not 90 degrees, sorry.

 

[KarmaPolice]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

sweet jesus, i hope if i am ever on trial for something you are not in the jury then. No need for science when you have a built in lie detector!

 

[Tango]

The most interesting tidbit I heard today was around 39 minutes into Francesa's show where he not so gently hinted that reputable former Patriots staff (ie not disgruntled ex employees) are talking off the record and the stories they share do not help the current Pats' credibility.

How exactly do off the record stories hurt anyone?

It partially explains why most people who are in and around the NFL don't proclaim the Patriots innocence.

If you are on the inside, then you pretty much think they're guilty.

Whether they get away with it is a different story entirely...

 

[Road Warriors]

The most interesting tidbit I heard today was around 39 minutes into Francesa's show where he not so gently hinted that reputable former Patriots staff (ie not disgruntled ex employees) are talking off the record and the stories they share do not help the current Pats' credibility.

I have been one of Nike's biggest fans for over 20 years. But he is hopelessly biased when it comes to the Pats and any allegation of cheating. He won't even read or listen to any evidence or reports suggesting the Pats may be innocent. His mind was made up before this began.

He post here under T J?

 

[mbuehner]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

Now imagine that all the information you had to base your decision on was whispered to you by a random guy on the street rather than testimony in the trial.

Huh? Not sure I follow.

That cant be an usual sensation for you.

 

[Morton Muffley]

So Bill Nye (alleged science guy but confirmed Seahawks fan) posted a video attempting to refute Belichick's explanation of the Deflategate hypothesis.

Unfortunately for Nye he makes two glaring mistakes that accidentally end up proving both Belichick AND tom Brady's points!

First, he says "imagine you are in a sweaty lockeroom that is 80dF and you inflate the footballs...then you move them to a field at 51dF" He then states that this change of approximately 30dF would result in "about a 6% change" [in psi] and that ZING "you'd be off by a factor of 2.5!" Here the 2.5 factor refers to a 2psi change being a 15% difference (6% x 2.5=15%). The problem is that he is making the same miscalculation that Neil deGrasse Tyson made (and recently retracted/corrected) of using gauge pressure instead of absolute pressure. Interestingly, when you use the correct pressure calcs, the 2 psi diff is actually a 7% diff and thus pretty close to the stated 6% diff that he can explain with the30dF temperature drop. Furthermore, it is VERY VERY far away from the "off by a factor of 2.5"...which is again is undoubtedly is the incorrect 15% that Tyson was first using.

Second, at the end of the video the timer goes off and he says "we just got this ball out of the fridge" at 51dF. He squeezes the ball and declares that it is "pretty much the same!!!" But since we know the ideal gas law has reduced the pressure in that ball by about 1.5psi we now have a debunker who is declaring that Tom Brady is correct in being unable to tell the impact that a small drop in psi has on a football.

Here is the video for any who care to watch Nye disprove everything he thought he was proving.

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/1/27/7921727/bill-nye-explains-deflategate-video

More than Nye says the Patriots science is way off:http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24997479/neil-degrasse-tyson-science-from-belichick-patriots-doesnt-add-up

Welcome to yesterday, today NDT admitted he was wrong.

Right! He corrected to say the temperature needed to be greater than a mere 90 degrees!So, to summarize, Patriots fans' latest theory is that the balls were inflated at Brady's grandmas house where she has the heat turned up to 95.

No, they were heated using friction, which the Pats openly admitted to, on Friday, last week.

Exactly, 1 psi is attributable to the weather (assume a 70dF locker room and 50dF field). The other psi (assuming mort is right and there is another psi) belichick attributes to the friction from the ball prep process which Tango rightly notes would need to raise the internal temp close to 90dF. Can a machine rubbing the exterior of the ball raise the internal temp to 90dF? No idea, but IMO THAT is the experiment that the NFL needs to run to prove/disprove this.

Alternately, it appears that smart labs is making a case that a wet ball will expand and thus the psi will decrease in the process so there is that possibility as well, but BB clearly stated that their ball prep process raised the psi by 1 so that is where I would start if I were the nfl. But then gain, I probably would have contacted brady so wtf do I know (sarcasm alert)!

 

[General Tso]

So Bill Nye (alleged science guy but confirmed Seahawks fan) posted a video attempting to refute Belichick's explanation of the Deflategate hypothesis.

Unfortunately for Nye he makes two glaring mistakes that accidentally end up proving both Belichick AND tom Brady's points!

First, he says "imagine you are in a sweaty lockeroom that is 80dF and you inflate the footballs...then you move them to a field at 51dF" He then states that this change of approximately 30dF would result in "about a 6% change" [in psi] and that ZING "you'd be off by a factor of 2.5!" Here the 2.5 factor refers to a 2psi change being a 15% difference (6% x 2.5=15%). The problem is that he is making the same miscalculation that Neil deGrasse Tyson made (and recently retracted/corrected) of using gauge pressure instead of absolute pressure. Interestingly, when you use the correct pressure calcs, the 2 psi diff is actually a 7% diff and thus pretty close to the stated 6% diff that he can explain with the30dF temperature drop. Furthermore, it is VERY VERY far away from the "off by a factor of 2.5"...which is again is undoubtedly is the incorrect 15% that Tyson was first using.

Second, at the end of the video the timer goes off and he says "we just got this ball out of the fridge" at 51dF. He squeezes the ball and declares that it is "pretty much the same!!!" But since we know the ideal gas law has reduced the pressure in that ball by about 1.5psi we now have a debunker who is declaring that Tom Brady is correct in being unable to tell the impact that a small drop in psi has on a football.

Here is the video for any who care to watch Nye disprove everything he thought he was proving.

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/1/27/7921727/bill-nye-explains-deflategate-video

More than Nye says the Patriots science is way off:http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24997479/neil-degrasse-tyson-science-from-belichick-patriots-doesnt-add-up

It's like a never-ending flood of scientific ignorance.

Please google Ideal Gas Law, plug in the numbers for the calculation, and you can see for yourself that Bill Nye and Neil Tyson screwed up basic math. This is stuff you should have learned in high school! SMH.

Right, greater than 90 degrees. All this does is bury the Pats further. Even the corrections prove the Pats wrong.

Not at all. Just the opposite. You are welcome to show your work disproving that a football inflated indoors at 12.5 will drop well below that threshold when brought outdoors in 50 degree temperatures. Mufflly can provide the exact number.And that doesn't take into account any additional internal temperatures generated from the friction created by the ball prep process. A guy on another forum just did an experiment showing that rubbing the ball for 4 minutes with only his hands increased the psi by .3. And it took 10 minutes for the psi to come back down .3.

It also doesn't take into account any psi reductions as a result of the balls being wet, which we know happens as well.

 

[espnespn]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

sweet jesus, i hope if i am ever on trial for something you are not in the jury then. No need for science when you have a built in lie detector!

He doesn't need facts or the truth. They just get in the way of his gut feelings.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Hey, anyone know what the temperature inside the ball boys' bag was? Anyone know how much warmth the hand warmers they can put in the bag add? Were there hand warmers inside the bags at Gillette? Do the balls naturally stay somewhat warmer than air temp by being handled and dried?

What exactly is 'the process' the Pats use that results in the balls being heated before the game? How long does it take? How long do the balls give a temporarily higher reading afterward?

 

[Run It Up]

The most interesting tidbit I heard today was around 39 minutes into Francesa's show where he not so gently hinted that reputable former Patriots staff (ie not disgruntled ex employees) are talking off the record and the stories they share do not help the current Pats' credibility.

How exactly do off the record stories hurt anyone?

It partially explains why most people who are in and around the NFL don't proclaim the Patriots innocence.

If you are on the inside, then you pretty much think they're guilty.

Whether they get away with it is a different story entirely...

Thats weird, most of the people that have come out against the Pats are not active players, many of which played when the psi of a ball wasn't a thing anyone cared about.

 

[T J]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

sweet jesus, i hope if i am ever on trial for something you are not in the jury then. No need for science when you have a built in lie detector!

When the science can be argued many ways, such as is the case here, and was the case with the DNA in the OJ case, I tend to throw it all out and go back to what my common sense tells me. I've read this thread up one side and down the other

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

sweet jesus, i hope if i am ever on trial for something you are not in the jury then. No need for science when you have a built in lie detector!

I hear you. I do. But there does not appear to be any real consensus that the balls can be scientifically explained to have lost the psi. If there were, then this whole issue would be over. The fact that isn't tells me that science is being bandied about as theories which brings me back to the logical explanation that the air was taken out deliberately. I got the sense Brady was lying the first time I heard him talk on the matter and again in his press conference. The Pats have a history. Too much is adding up to my sense of common sense to be coincidence. What I believe to be true is my default when I am not convinced otherwise and the only thing I've seen with the science so far is speculation.

 

[Tango]

So Bill Nye (alleged science guy but confirmed Seahawks fan) posted a video attempting to refute Belichick's explanation of the Deflategate hypothesis.

Unfortunately for Nye he makes two glaring mistakes that accidentally end up proving both Belichick AND tom Brady's points!

First, he says "imagine you are in a sweaty lockeroom that is 80dF and you inflate the footballs...then you move them to a field at 51dF" He then states that this change of approximately 30dF would result in "about a 6% change" [in psi] and that ZING "you'd be off by a factor of 2.5!" Here the 2.5 factor refers to a 2psi change being a 15% difference (6% x 2.5=15%). The problem is that he is making the same miscalculation that Neil deGrasse Tyson made (and recently retracted/corrected) of using gauge pressure instead of absolute pressure. Interestingly, when you use the correct pressure calcs, the 2 psi diff is actually a 7% diff and thus pretty close to the stated 6% diff that he can explain with the30dF temperature drop. Furthermore, it is VERY VERY far away from the "off by a factor of 2.5"...which is again is undoubtedly is the incorrect 15% that Tyson was first using.

Second, at the end of the video the timer goes off and he says "we just got this ball out of the fridge" at 51dF. He squeezes the ball and declares that it is "pretty much the same!!!" But since we know the ideal gas law has reduced the pressure in that ball by about 1.5psi we now have a debunker who is declaring that Tom Brady is correct in being unable to tell the impact that a small drop in psi has on a football.

Here is the video for any who care to watch Nye disprove everything he thought he was proving.

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/1/27/7921727/bill-nye-explains-deflategate-video

More than Nye says the Patriots science is way off:http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24997479/neil-degrasse-tyson-science-from-belichick-patriots-doesnt-add-up

It's like a never-ending flood of scientific ignorance.

Please google Ideal Gas Law, plug in the numbers for the calculation, and you can see for yourself that Bill Nye and Neil Tyson screwed up basic math. This is stuff you should have learned in high school! SMH.

Right, greater than 90 degrees. All this does is bury the Pats further.Even the corrections prove the Pats wrong.

Did you even bother to do the calculation yourself? It is not 90 degrees, sorry.

Ha, 90 degrees is in the correction that you referred to. The best article I can find to defer the Patriots is in the Globe where, if you read the article start to finish and ignore out of context comments like "Belichick was exactly right"... You find that they merely agree directionally that deflation may occur around half a pound to a pound and a half.....in the worst case.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

The OJ logic being brought into this isn't that silly: most will think they cheated for good (not great) reason, but the question of whether they elude justice due to Marcia Clark's (ie RG's) team running a flawed sting operation is yet to be seen.

 

[moleculo]

So Bill Nye (alleged science guy but confirmed Seahawks fan) posted a video attempting to refute Belichick's explanation of the Deflategate hypothesis.

Unfortunately for Nye he makes two glaring mistakes that accidentally end up proving both Belichick AND tom Brady's points!

First, he says "imagine you are in a sweaty lockeroom that is 80dF and you inflate the footballs...then you move them to a field at 51dF" He then states that this change of approximately 30dF would result in "about a 6% change" [in psi] and that ZING "you'd be off by a factor of 2.5!" Here the 2.5 factor refers to a 2psi change being a 15% difference (6% x 2.5=15%). The problem is that he is making the same miscalculation that Neil deGrasse Tyson made (and recently retracted/corrected) of using gauge pressure instead of absolute pressure. Interestingly, when you use the correct pressure calcs, the 2 psi diff is actually a 7% diff and thus pretty close to the stated 6% diff that he can explain with the30dF temperature drop. Furthermore, it is VERY VERY far away from the "off by a factor of 2.5"...which is again is undoubtedly is the incorrect 15% that Tyson was first using.

Second, at the end of the video the timer goes off and he says "we just got this ball out of the fridge" at 51dF. He squeezes the ball and declares that it is "pretty much the same!!!" But since we know the ideal gas law has reduced the pressure in that ball by about 1.5psi we now have a debunker who is declaring that Tom Brady is correct in being unable to tell the impact that a small drop in psi has on a football.

Here is the video for any who care to watch Nye disprove everything he thought he was proving.

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/1/27/7921727/bill-nye-explains-deflategate-video

More than Nye says the Patriots science is way off:http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24997479/neil-degrasse-tyson-science-from-belichick-patriots-doesnt-add-up

Welcome to yesterday, today NDT admitted he was wrong.

Right! He corrected to say the temperature needed to be greater than a mere 90 degrees!So, to summarize, Patriots fans' latest theory is that the balls were inflated at Brady's grandmas house where she has the heat turned up to 95.

No, they were heated using friction, which the Pats openly admitted to, on Friday, last week.

Exactly, 1 psi is attributable to the weather (assume a 70dF locker room and 50dF field). The other psi (assuming mort is right and there is another psi) belichick attributes to the friction from the ball prep process which Tango rightly notes would need to raise the internal temp close to 90dF. Can a machine rubbing the exterior of the ball raise the internal temp to 90dF? No idea, but IMO THAT is the experiment that the NFL needs to run to prove/disprove this.Alternately, it appears that smart labs is making a case that a wet ball will expand and thus the psi will decrease in the process so there is that possibility as well, but BB clearly stated that their ball prep process raised the psi by 1 so that is where I would start if I were the nfl. But then gain, I probably would have contacted brady so wtf do I know (sarcasm alert)!

Here's the problem of the 1 psi rubbing theory: it assumes the pats rubbed their balls immediately before delivering to the refs at precicely 2:15 before kickoff. Does that make sense to anyone? If you were the equipment manager for the Pats, in charge of delivering game balls for the biggest game of the season, would you wait until the exact last minute?I wouldn't. I'd have it done a few days early to give Mr. Brady a chance to feel my balls in advance, just to make sure they were to his liking. That's just me though.

If the balls were rubbed more than an hour prior to ball inspection, they likely would have acclimated to room temp, which means that 1 psi is still unaccounted for.

 

[T J]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

sweet jesus, i hope if i am ever on trial for something you are not in the jury then. No need for science when you have a built in lie detector!

He doesn't need facts or the truth. They just get in the way of his gut feelings.

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

Now imagine that all the information you had to base your decision on was whispered to you by a random guy on the street rather than testimony in the trial.

Huh? Not sure I follow.

That cant be an usual sensation for you.

Actually it is. You may think my opinion is idiotic and that's ok. I think the same of yours. We good?

 

[Tango]

The most interesting tidbit I heard today was around 39 minutes into Francesa's show where he not so gently hinted that reputable former Patriots staff (ie not disgruntled ex employees) are talking off the record and the stories they share do not help the current Pats' credibility.

How exactly do off the record stories hurt anyone?

It partially explains why most people who are in and around the NFL don't proclaim the Patriots innocence.If you are on the inside, then you pretty much think they're guilty.

Whether they get away with it is a different story entirely...

Thats weird, most of the people that have come out against the Pats are not active players, many of which played when the psi of a ball wasn't a thing anyone cared about.

Oh my bad. So you have the list of people who say they're innocent then???

I'll write the complete list for you:

John Harbaugh

(Ya know, the guy that turned the Pats in)

Anyone else who is sympathetic to the Patriots doesn't talk much about guilt but instead focuses on the fact that they don't think it's a big deal...which is a different issue entirely.

 

[The Kerminator]

Why are we still talking about this? I thought it was over when BB dropped the mic on Saturday.

 

[Green and Gold]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

Now imagine that all the information you had to base your decision on was whispered to you by a random guy on the street rather than testimony in the trial.

Huh? Not sure I follow.

None of the facts in this case so far can be verified, and in fact there are constantly conflicting reports. If you have made your mind up on what has happened already, you are either a Patriots fan who wants this story to be false or a Patriots hater who wants it to be true.A good method of self reflection is, if you are a Patriots fan, to imagine that the Giants were in this exact position (accused of underinflating footballs, possibly for years) and how you would act in this thread. And if you are someone who is convinced the Patriots did this, imagine how you would be acting in this thread if your favorite team were in this position.

If you can do that, you should be able to sympathize with the people you disagree with in this thread and maybe have a little bit less trolling.