Patriots being investigated after Colts game (4 Viewers)

[12punch]

So the NFL has nothing? This was a fn witchhunt all along......

Are u kidding me?

Even if u hate the Patriots, this was total crap that they did not deserve; complete butt hurt Bal & Indy.

dude, we commemorate every pats superbowl with some nonsense -- don't hate tradition

 

[Morton Muffley]

New Theory:

Patriots deliver woefully underinflated balls to refs pre-game, along with a note that says, "plz inflate to 12.5 psi. love you! xoxo" Ref says, "love you too, Billy. We'd love to make the balls exactly like Tommy likes them. Fantastic texture on these balls, by the way. I'm sure this took a lot of rubbing."

The Refs pump up the balls like they always do. The game proceeds, someone complains, refs have to check the balls. Because the balls were cold, they inadvertently discover the phenomenon colloquially known as shrinkage when they note that the pressure now reads 11.5 PSI. Balls are either replaced or re inflated, and the game continues.

After the game, someone mentions to Kravitz that the balls at halftime were 11.5 PSI. Kravitz says, "HOLY CWAP! Andy Lucky told me once that balls are suppoda be 13.5!!!!1!!one! This is ####### huge! I'm gonna get me a pulitzah yet!" (yes, in my head Kravitz has a weird accent and yells alot). So, after two or three scotches, he pounds away furiously at his keyboard, writing the Pats balls were 2 psi low.

The internet explodes, salty haters start doing science, salty homers start doing science, salty science is all of a sudden all over everywhere and we all get a nice lesson in the Ideal Gas Law, we are all reminded that absolute pressure <> gauge pressure, and we get a nice refresher in Kelvin temperature.

The NFL launches their investigation, but apparently the lead investigator is Barney Fife, working closely with Chief Wiggum. They do about 40 interviews, and reviewing a ton of security footage.

Later, Florio hears the balls are 11.5 PSI, and he corrects the record that it was actually one PSI, not two. The internet explodes again, salty haters do more science, salty homers do their science, salty videos are made, Belichick talks, Brady talks, and the salty homers start doing victory laps, high-fiving and ###-slapping each other as they go round and round.

Fife and Wiggum get pissed off that their gravy train is about to come to an end and they will have to go back to doing real work instead of cushy NFL mall-cop stuff. So, they leak that they have video of a ball boy sneaking into a room with the game balls. Salty haters rejoice, salty homers begin to cower again. More salty science is done, and more salty videos are made. There's sooo much salt. Salt just covering everything by now... like way more than 2 oz of salt.

Now, we find out that the refs didn't write anything down. So, the salty homers resume victory laps, high-fiving and ###-slapping the whole way.

I predict we haven't seen the end of this saga. There's still plenty of salt left in the shaker. The superbowl is certain to bring lots more salt, regardless of what happens in the game. Refs will now be forced to serialize each ball and record exact pressure gauges using a Swedish made ball pump, and they won't like that. They will probably blame their old flames Billy and Tommy, and all of the salty homers are sure to lament and gnash any flag thrown in the superbowl, and all of the salty homers will be quick to assume any dropped pass and/or fumble was a result of properly inflated balls. After all of that, the Fife and Wiggum report will be issued, and thats when the real salt comes out.

salt.

balls.

salty balls.

Very nice! And probably very close to what actually happened.

Exactly what the general and I have been saying happened for the last five days. Glad you finally came around moleculo...it took a while but I am sincerely impressed that you were able to change your pov as the vide nice and explanations mounted. Well done.

 

[moleculo]

New Theory:

Patriots deliver woefully underinflated balls to refs pre-game, along with a note that says, "plz inflate to 12.5 psi. love you! xoxo" Ref says, "love you too, Billy. We'd love to make the balls exactly like Tommy likes them. Fantastic texture on these balls, by the way. I'm sure this took a lot of rubbing."

The Refs pump up the balls like they always do. The game proceeds, someone complains, refs have to check the balls. Because the balls were cold, they inadvertently discover the phenomenon colloquially known as shrinkage when they note that the pressure now reads 11.5 PSI. Balls are either replaced or re inflated, and the game continues.

After the game, someone mentions to Kravitz that the balls at halftime were 11.5 PSI. Kravitz says, "HOLY CWAP! Andy Lucky told me once that balls are suppoda be 13.5!!!!1!!one! This is ####### huge! I'm gonna get me a pulitzah yet!" (yes, in my head Kravitz has a weird accent and yells alot). So, after two or three scotches, he pounds away furiously at his keyboard, writing the Pats balls were 2 psi low.

The internet explodes, salty haters start doing science, salty homers start doing science, salty science is all of a sudden all over everywhere and we all get a nice lesson in the Ideal Gas Law, we are all reminded that absolute pressure <> gauge pressure, and we get a nice refresher in Kelvin temperature.

The NFL launches their investigation, but apparently the lead investigator is Barney Fife, working closely with Chief Wiggum. They do about 40 interviews, and reviewing a ton of security footage.

Later, Florio hears the balls are 11.5 PSI, and he corrects the record that it was actually one PSI, not two. The internet explodes again, salty haters do more science, salty homers do their science, salty videos are made, Belichick talks, Brady talks, and the salty homers start doing victory laps, high-fiving and ###-slapping each other as they go round and round.

Fife and Wiggum get pissed off that their gravy train is about to come to an end and they will have to go back to doing real work instead of cushy NFL mall-cop stuff. So, they leak that they have video of a ball boy sneaking into a room with the game balls. Salty haters rejoice, salty homers begin to cower again. More salty science is done, and more salty videos are made. There's sooo much salt. Salt just covering everything by now... like way more than 2 oz of salt.

Now, we find out that the refs didn't write anything down. So, the salty homers resume victory laps, high-fiving and ###-slapping the whole way.

I predict we haven't seen the end of this saga. There's still plenty of salt left in the shaker. The superbowl is certain to bring lots more salt, regardless of what happens in the game. Refs will now be forced to serialize each ball and record exact pressure gauges using a Swedish made ball pump, and they won't like that. They will probably blame their old flames Billy and Tommy, and all of the salty homers are sure to lament and gnash any flag thrown in the superbowl, and all of the salty homers will be quick to assume any dropped pass and/or fumble was a result of properly inflated balls. After all of that, the Fife and Wiggum report will be issued, and thats when the real salt comes out.

salt.

balls.

salty balls.

Very nice! And probably very close to what actually happened.

Exactly what the general and I have been saying happened for the last five days. Glad you finally came around moleculo...it took a while but I am sincerely impressed that you were able to change your pov as the vide nice and explanations mounted. Well done.

well, hold on now. This isn't necessarily my pov, it's just a theory on what may have happened. For this theory to make sense, it requires gross incompetence on the parts of the NFL investigators, Roger Godell, and Bob Kravitz. I'm not sure that makes a whole lot of sense either. It also does not account for reports of underinflated balls in the regular season Colts game nor the K-balls in the Ravens game.

Another theory is the ball-boy let out 1 psi out of each football, bringing them down to 11.5 psi for the game. they drop with the temp, Kravitz reports a 2 psi drop. The balls are sent back to NFL HQ, where at room temp they are back to 11.5 psi, and Florio reports it as a 1 psi drop. This theory actually ties up more loose ends than the one I posted above. I think the NFL investigators know much more than we do at this point. For this to continue as it has, they've got to have something pretty damning.

I am neither a salty hater nor a Brady nut-hugger. I'm just a guy who, much like Zartan, loves drama. I also have a science background and really enjoy the machinations of all of the ideal gas law stuff.

 

[kyoun1e]

I am shocked that a bigger deal isn't being made of this new information.

Where's Mort? Where's Brunell? Where's Ray Lewis??

As a pats fan I'm outraged.

There is no case.

Worse, this was a purposeful but bungled sting operation by the NFL. They smeared the reputation of an organization, a coach, and a quarterback with zero hard evidence.

At the same time, the NFL has smeared their own reputation. This entire group has proven entirely incompetant and incapable.

If I were Kraft I'd press on this. God knows Kraft/Bill/Brady knew they had nothing when they hit the podium with their recent firm stances. I'd go full court press at this point.

Not only should an apology be delivered by the NFL, prior to the game, but Goodell should be fired.

 

[The Kerminator]

It's Friday. I expect nothing less than 6 pages today.

 

[Anarchy99]

I am shocked that a bigger deal isn't being made of this new information.

Where's Mort? Where's Brunell? Where's Ray Lewis??

As a pats fan I'm outraged.

There is no case.

Worse, this was a purposeful but bungled sting operation by the NFL. They smeared the reputation of an organization, a coach, and a quarterback with zero hard evidence.

At the same time, the NFL has smeared their own reputation. This entire group has proven entirely incompetant and incapable.

If I were Kraft I'd press on this. God knows Kraft/Bill/Brady knew they had nothing when they hit the podium with their recent firm stances. I'd go full court press at this point.

Not only should an apology be delivered by the NFL, prior to the game, but Goodell should be fired.

This is not a courtroom. The league could have close to nothing and still punish the Patriots. I would be shocked if the league let them skate entirely on this.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

This is not a courtroom.

Exactly. There's definitely a small portion of the US population that will be all over "the refs lied about the pressure", but the NFL isn't really going to bite on that one.

 

[Road Warriors]

I am shocked that a bigger deal isn't being made of this new information.

Where's Mort? Where's Brunell? Where's Ray Lewis??

As a pats fan I'm outraged.

There is no case.

Worse, this was a purposeful but bungled sting operation by the NFL. They smeared the reputation of an organization, a coach, and a quarterback with zero hard evidence.

At the same time, the NFL has smeared their own reputation. This entire group has proven entirely incompetant and incapable.

If I were Kraft I'd press on this. God knows Kraft/Bill/Brady knew they had nothing when they hit the podium with their recent firm stances. I'd go full court press at this point.

Not only should an apology be delivered by the NFL, prior to the game, but Goodell should be fired.

This is not a courtroom. The league could have close to nothing and still punish the Patriots. I would be shocked if the league let them skate entirely on this.

I wouldn't. If they don't find something in the electronic forensics, or something that ties to a request to tamper with the balls, I think this latest announcement from the NFL is setting the table for a final clearing. As I've stated before, without a starting and ending pressure that shows a drop in psi outside the range of the elements effect, I don't see how you can get to a "more likely than not" ruling.

For what its worth, while I tend not to be a consipiracy theorist, the timing and wording of the leaks from the NFL office through Mort & Glazer sure make is seem like somebody up there has got an agenda.

 

[The Kerminator]

I am shocked that a bigger deal isn't being made of this new information.

Where's Mort? Where's Brunell? Where's Ray Lewis??

As a pats fan I'm outraged.

There is no case.

Worse, this was a purposeful but bungled sting operation by the NFL. They smeared the reputation of an organization, a coach, and a quarterback with zero hard evidence.

At the same time, the NFL has smeared their own reputation. This entire group has proven entirely incompetant and incapable.

If I were Kraft I'd press on this. God knows Kraft/Bill/Brady knew they had nothing when they hit the podium with their recent firm stances. I'd go full court press at this point.

Not only should an apology be delivered by the NFL, prior to the game, but Goodell should be fired.

Oh great. Another declaration of it's ovah. Haven't we learned anything since last Saturday?

Yesterday's news is irrelevant. Unless, of course, you are implying the refs are salty haters and are lying about the psi. Or if the NFL's policy is to record the psi of the footballs before and after the games and in this case failed to do so. Otherwise, it's pretty much still not ovah.

If anything, this confirms that this wasn't a sting operation and the NFL out to get those cheatin' Patriots that everybody is jealous of. If it was, they would have been sure to record the psi.

 

[Road Warriors]

This is not a courtroom.

Exactly. There's definitely a small portion of the US population that will be all over "the refs lied about the pressure", but the NFL isn't really going to bite on that one.

???

The refs don't have to have lied here. Balls were OK at the inspection. Balls are under inflated by an unknown amount at the half, and there is no record of what the balls started at or where they finished. As far as I can tell, these are all facts.

If the ref recalls the pressure of each ball, and the pressure was outside the range of expected drop due to temperature, them maybe the league goes forward on the ref's memory. If he doesn't recall the psi values, or if they do fall within the expected range, no lying has happened, but there's no reasonable proof of tampering, either.

Unless you're in the camp that as soon as the balls were found to be under-inflated ( regardless of how ), the Patriots were guilty. You wouldn't be alone.

 

[JIslander]

IMO -- The Pats either knew thru their ball prep process they would deflate once outside and/or they purposely provided under-inflated balls knowing the system /refs would not catch them at the outset. Not buying the ball boy deflation thing.

 

[Anarchy99]

I happen to think that if the league wanted to clear the Pats they could have done so in two days. Tuesday after the AFCC game they could have said that they poked around and found no evidence of tampering with the footballs. Good luck, god bless. But they didn't do that.

Instead, the league has slow played and had convienient leaks to keep the Patriots squirming. The other owners WANT the Patriots to be punished, so they are going to keep digging. I expect at some point the report will come out that there is no conclusive evidence to explain what happened, but there is enough circumstantial evidence to state that SOMETHING unnatural happened (even if they have essentially nothing).

IMO, the league will fine NE enough to cover the cost of the investigation and dock NE a draft pick (a 3rd?) for again skirting the intent and integrity of the rules and fair play. But BB and Brady will have no individual punishment.

But at some point, in the calculations and awarding of compensatory picks, NE will end up getting a pick probably higher than they deserved, so their net loss will end up being minimal (award them a pick at the end of the round that they docked them a pick, so the difference could literally be in the order of a handful of spots in the draft).

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

This is not a courtroom.

Exactly. There's definitely a small portion of the US population that will be all over "the refs lied about the pressure", but the NFL isn't really going to bite on that one.

???

The refs don't have to have lied here. Balls were OK at the inspection. Balls are under inflated by an unknown amount at the half, and there is no record of what the balls started at or where they finished. As far as I can tell, these are all facts.

If the ref recalls the pressure of each ball, and the pressure was outside the range of expected drop due to temperature, them maybe the league goes forward on the ref's memory. If he doesn't recall the psi values, or if they do fall within the expected range, no lying has happened, but there's no reasonable proof of tampering, either.

Unless you're in the camp that as soon as the balls were found to be under-inflated ( regardless of how ), the Patriots were guilty. You wouldn't be alone.

My point is that if the refs say "we measured the balls before the game and all were between 12.5 and 13.5, but at halftime the Patriots were all about two pounds low and the Colts were still fully inflated" the NFL is going to believe them. It's not a court of law -- they don't need a Notary-signed document with every PSI listed.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

This is not a courtroom.

Exactly. There's definitely a small portion of the US population that will be all over "the refs lied about the pressure", but the NFL isn't really going to bite on that one.

???

The refs don't have to have lied here. Balls were OK at the inspection. Balls are under inflated by an unknown amount at the half, and there is no record of what the balls started at or where they finished. As far as I can tell, these are all facts.

If the ref recalls the pressure of each ball, and the pressure was outside the range of expected drop due to temperature, them maybe the league goes forward on the ref's memory. If he doesn't recall the psi values, or if they do fall within the expected range, no lying has happened, but there's no reasonable proof of tampering, either.

Unless you're in the camp that as soon as the balls were found to be under-inflated ( regardless of how ), the Patriots were guilty. You wouldn't be alone.

Are the balls even marked more than the ref's initials? By that I mean does Walt Anderson put WA #1, WA #2, etc.. If that doesn't occur it would be impossible to match up the balls he supposedly measured before the game to the balls he measured at half. Obviously a bit of a mute point seeing how they never record PSI of individual balls and just give them a pass/fail rating. I thought it is plausable that refs don't measure the PSI of each ball pregame and that seems to be even more of a reasonable conclusion considering they don't record any of their measurements.

Goodell today at 1:30pm...should be interesting.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

I happen to think that if the league wanted to clear the Pats they could have done so in two days. Tuesday after the AFCC game they could have said that they poked around and found no evidence of tampering with the footballs. Good luck, god bless. But they didn't do that.

Instead, the league has slow played and had convienient leaks to keep the Patriots squirming. The other owners WANT the Patriots to be punished, so they are going to keep digging. I expect at some point the report will come out that there is no conclusive evidence to explain what happened, but there is enough circumstantial evidence to state that SOMETHING unnatural happened (even if they have essentially nothing).

IMO, the league will fine NE enough to cover the cost of the investigation and dock NE a draft pick (a 3rd?) for again skirting the intent and integrity of the rules and fair play. But BB and Brady will have no individual punishment.

But at some point, in the calculations and awarding of compensatory picks, NE will end up getting a pick probably higher than they deserved, so their net loss will end up being minimal (award them a pick at the end of the round that they docked them a pick, so the difference could literally be in the order of a handful of spots in the draft).

I will be shocked if New England loses a pick over this and I would certainly think there is no way they don't fight it if the league imposes that as a penalty.

 

[amnesiac]

It's Friday. I expect nothing less than 6 pages today.

this thread has averaged just over 10 pages a day. why are you projecting a 40% decrease?

 

[LBH]

This was a pretty weak controversy from the start. Will be surprised if the NFL has anything on the Pats when the investigation is over

 

[espnespn]

I happen to think that if the league wanted to clear the Pats they could have done so in two days. Tuesday after the AFCC game they could have said that they poked around and found no evidence of tampering with the footballs. Good luck, god bless. But they didn't do that.

Instead, the league has slow played and had convienient leaks to keep the Patriots squirming. The other owners WANT the Patriots to be punished, so they are going to keep digging. I expect at some point the report will come out that there is no conclusive evidence to explain what happened, but there is enough circumstantial evidence to state that SOMETHING unnatural happened (even if they have essentially nothing).

IMO, the league will fine NE enough to cover the cost of the investigation and dock NE a draft pick (a 3rd?) for again skirting the intent and integrity of the rules and fair play. But BB and Brady will have no individual punishment.

But at some point, in the calculations and awarding of compensatory picks, NE will end up getting a pick probably higher than they deserved, so their net loss will end up being minimal (award them a pick at the end of the round that they docked them a pick, so the difference could literally be in the order of a handful of spots in the draft).

I will be shocked if New England loses a pick over this and I would certainly think there is no way they don't fight it if the league imposes that as a penalty.

Kraft will absolutely fight it, if the NFL tries to punish them without any evidence of Patriots deflation. He already publicly demanded an apology if there is no evidence.

Btw, the other owners will not like it either, if the NFL starts punishing teams without evidence. Because there are always plenty of cheating allegations thrown around, and they don't want their teams to be punished next without evidence.

 

[Road Warriors]

I happen to think that if the league wanted to clear the Pats they could have done so in two days. Tuesday after the AFCC game they could have said that they poked around and found no evidence of tampering with the footballs. Good luck, god bless. But they didn't do that.

Instead, the league has slow played and had convienient leaks to keep the Patriots squirming. The other owners WANT the Patriots to be punished, so they are going to keep digging. I expect at some point the report will come out that there is no conclusive evidence to explain what happened, but there is enough circumstantial evidence to state that SOMETHING unnatural happened (even if they have essentially nothing).

IMO, the league will fine NE enough to cover the cost of the investigation and dock NE a draft pick (a 3rd?) for again skirting the intent and integrity of the rules and fair play. But BB and Brady will have no individual punishment.

But at some point, in the calculations and awarding of compensatory picks, NE will end up getting a pick probably higher than they deserved, so their net loss will end up being minimal (award them a pick at the end of the round that they docked them a pick, so the difference could literally be in the order of a handful of spots in the draft).

My :roseglasseson: view is that once the initial leak got out, the NFL wasn't going to have a quick resolution, due to the "optics" of their previous investigations and early decisions. And the cynic in me says the 3rd part investigation team isn't going to cut short its paycheck.

I also think that the leaks are not the "NFL front office position", but somebody with an agenda against the Pats or Belichick.

 

[ROCKET]

I happen to think that if the league wanted to clear the Pats they could have done so in two days. Tuesday after the AFCC game they could have said that they poked around and found no evidence of tampering with the footballs. Good luck, god bless. But they didn't do that.

Instead, the league has slow played and had convienient leaks to keep the Patriots squirming. The other owners WANT the Patriots to be punished, so they are going to keep digging. I expect at some point the report will come out that there is no conclusive evidence to explain what happened, but there is enough circumstantial evidence to state that SOMETHING unnatural happened (even if they have essentially nothing).

IMO, the league will fine NE enough to cover the cost of the investigation and dock NE a draft pick (a 3rd?) for again skirting the intent and integrity of the rules and fair play. But BB and Brady will have no individual punishment.

But at some point, in the calculations and awarding of compensatory picks, NE will end up getting a pick probably higher than they deserved, so their net loss will end up being minimal (award them a pick at the end of the round that they docked them a pick, so the difference could literally be in the order of a handful of spots in the draft).

I will be shocked if New England loses a pick over this and I would certainly think there is no way they don't fight it if the league imposes that as a penalty.

Agreed, Kraft didn't come off as a guy willing to take one for the better of the league in his presser. The league most likely has nothing more than what we know of today and it's not enough to even warrant a fine.

I see the league back peddling and dropping the whole thing. They have already botched the pr side of this and look less than credible at this point. Goodell should be sweating bullets in his presser today as his job is very much on the line.

 

[James Daulton]

We'll see who gets the last laugh when Brady starts throwing ducks because he has to use regular footballs for the Supe and not nerfs.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

We'll see who gets the last laugh when Brady starts throwing ducks because he has to use regular footballs for the Supe and not nerfs.

Hopefully he struggles as much as he did in the second half of the Colts game

 

[Anarchy99]

The fact that the league opted to launch a fair and impartial investigation tells me they had no intent on things being fair and impartial. As I already mentioned, if they really wanted to be fair and impartial, they would have never taken this on as a serious investigation. They could have approached the Pats and behind close doors asked them why there were multiple reports from other teams on under inflated footballs. They could have warned them that they would be scrutinized. They could have sent a memo to all teams pointingout the specs and requirements on footballs. Once the story broke,m they could have dismissed it and written it off quickly.

But they didn't. When they named a lead investigator and launched an investigation that would take weeks and months, that tells me that the league started out with a destinination or an outcome that they wanted to get to. To make things easier on the Pats, they could have come out and said the league currently had nothing to show the Patriots had done anything wrong but they would be continuing with their investigation. Instead, they let the Pats twist in the wind.

The Brady/BB/Kraft pressers may only have forced the investigators to try even harder to come up with something. Some people take the Pats public statements as an authoratative stance of 100% innocence. As others have said, what were they going to do, come out and admit to it? Every defense attorney in the world will advide people to deny, deny, deny.

I see no way that the league will apologize to Kraft & Co. on this, and I don't see a two month investigation completely exhonerating NE. Best case for the Pats at this point is only getting a fine for using underflated footballs. Even if the refs didn't log the PSI of the footballs upon inspection, the logically conclusion is that they all were a minimum of 12.5 PSI (which is what the league will argue).

If the league really wanted to be fair and equitable, we would not be 123 pages into this thread, as the whole thing borders on the absurd and should never have got any legs at all (IMO). But 95% of the general public has again perceived the Patriots cheated, and rest assured there are PLENTY of owners that want NE to fry (whether it be for this issue or many others that we may not even know about).

So, yeah, I think the league has an axe to grind and they will weasle word some report and statement at the end of all this that things were fishy, the Pats had motive and opportunity to deflate the footballs, and the league went easy on them by only issuing XXXXX as a penalty (which would have been way worse if they had more definitive proof or evidence). What will get me ever more is if in the report itself the league lists unspecified sources for information (ie, we spoke to representatives from other teams who said blah, blah, blah).

Bottom line, I don't see NE being cleared 100%, and I REALLY don't see the league issuing a formal apology to anyone.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

This thread is already awesome, but if Brady has a bad game and the Pats have multiple fumbles with the checked SB balls this thread will be epic next week.

You'll have half the people saying "see Brady can't play without deflating the football" and the other half crying and cursing Goodell for causing the Pats to lose due to all of the distractions.

The second one would be legit.

Not really. Super Bowl week is a distraction for both teams anyway. If Pat fans use that as an excuse, that's all it will be. I don't think Belichik will be unprepared at all.

Did the NFL interrupt the Seahawks while they were trying to prepare, the same way they interrupted the Patriots?

In a statement, Patriots owner Robert Kraft said over the past three days the team has "provided access to every full- and part-time employee the league's representatives requested to speak with and produced every communication device that they requested to search."

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12217564/nfl-conducting-investigation-claim-new-england-patriots-used-underinflated-footballs

Yeah I'm sure the NFL talking to the equipment manager and a security guard is the reason the Pats may lose on Sunday.

I didn't realize the equipment manager and security guard were on the the Patriots coaching staff.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/interception-tipped-colts-deflated-ball-report-article-1.2085314

If you want to use it as an excuse, I guess it's a win-win for you then.

Since you are a Jets fan, all you know about are lose-lose situations.

Razor sharp wit on this guy. You got me.

 

[ROCKET]

The fact that the league opted to launch a fair and impartial investigation tells me they had no intent on things being fair and impartial. As I already mentioned, if they really wanted to be fair and impartial, they would have never taken this on as a serious investigation. They could have approached the Pats and behind close doors asked them why there were multiple reports from other teams on under inflated footballs. They could have warned them that they would be scrutinized. They could have sent a memo to all teams pointingout the specs and requirements on footballs. Once the story broke,m they could have dismissed it and written it off quickly.

But they didn't. When they named a lead investigator and launched an investigation that would take weeks and months, that tells me that the league started out with a destinination or an outcome that they wanted to get to. To make things easier on the Pats, they could have come out and said the league currently had nothing to show the Patriots had done anything wrong but they would be continuing with their investigation. Instead, they let the Pats twist in the wind.

The Brady/BB/Kraft pressers may only have forced the investigators to try even harder to come up with something. Some people take the Pats public statements as an authoratative stance of 100% innocence. As others have said, what were they going to do, come out and admit to it? Every defense attorney in the world will advide people to deny, deny, deny.

I see no way that the league will apologize to Kraft & Co. on this, and I don't see a two month investigation completely exhonerating NE. Best case for the Pats at this point is only getting a fine for using underflated footballs. Even if the refs didn't log the PSI of the footballs upon inspection, the logically conclusion is that they all were a minimum of 12.5 PSI (which is what the league will argue).

If the league really wanted to be fair and equitable, we would not be 123 pages into this thread, as the whole thing borders on the absurd and should never have got any legs at all (IMO). But 95% of the general public has again perceived the Patriots cheated, and rest assured there are PLENTY of owners that want NE to fry (whether it be for this issue or many others that we may not even know about).

So, yeah, I think the league has an axe to grind and they will weasle word some report and statement at the end of all this that things were fishy, the Pats had motive and opportunity to deflate the footballs, and the league went easy on them by only issuing XXXXX as a penalty (which would have been way worse if they had more definitive proof or evidence). What will get me ever more is if in the report itself the league lists unspecified sources for information (ie, we spoke to representatives from other teams who said blah, blah, blah).

Bottom line, I don't see NE being cleared 100%, and I REALLY don't see the league issuing a formal apology to anyone.

I never see a defense attorney advise denying anything unless the accused is 110% confident of no wrong doing AND the defense believes there is no case for the prosecution. This is what we are looking at here.

This has become personal for Kraft and he isn't accepting any punishment. He's already dug his heels in and I'll take Kraft over a bunch of stumble bums in the NFL front office who have already proven over and over to be incompetent when dealing with any situation like this.

 

[James Daulton]

We'll see who gets the last laugh when Brady starts throwing ducks because he has to use regular footballs for the Supe and not nerfs.

Hopefully he struggles as much as he did in the second half of the Colts game

Maybe he should stop deflating the balls then?

 

[ChuckLiddell]

The fact that the league opted to launch a fair and impartial investigation tells me they had no intent on things being fair and impartial. As I already mentioned, if they really wanted to be fair and impartial, they would have never taken this on as a serious investigation. They could have approached the Pats and behind close doors asked them why there were multiple reports from other teams on under inflated footballs. They could have warned them that they would be scrutinized. They could have sent a memo to all teams pointingout the specs and requirements on footballs. Once the story broke,m they could have dismissed it and written it off quickly.

But they didn't. When they named a lead investigator and launched an investigation that would take weeks and months, that tells me that the league started out with a destinination or an outcome that they wanted to get to. To make things easier on the Pats, they could have come out and said the league currently had nothing to show the Patriots had done anything wrong but they would be continuing with their investigation. Instead, they let the Pats twist in the wind.

The Brady/BB/Kraft pressers may only have forced the investigators to try even harder to come up with something. Some people take the Pats public statements as an authoratative stance of 100% innocence. As others have said, what were they going to do, come out and admit to it? Every defense attorney in the world will advide people to deny, deny, deny.

I see no way that the league will apologize to Kraft & Co. on this, and I don't see a two month investigation completely exhonerating NE. Best case for the Pats at this point is only getting a fine for using underflated footballs. Even if the refs didn't log the PSI of the footballs upon inspection, the logically conclusion is that they all were a minimum of 12.5 PSI (which is what the league will argue).

If the league really wanted to be fair and equitable, we would not be 123 pages into this thread, as the whole thing borders on the absurd and should never have got any legs at all (IMO). But 95% of the general public has again perceived the Patriots cheated, and rest assured there are PLENTY of owners that want NE to fry (whether it be for this issue or many others that we may not even know about).

So, yeah, I think the league has an axe to grind and they will weasle word some report and statement at the end of all this that things were fishy, the Pats had motive and opportunity to deflate the footballs, and the league went easy on them by only issuing XXXXX as a penalty (which would have been way worse if they had more definitive proof or evidence). What will get me ever more is if in the report itself the league lists unspecified sources for information (ie, we spoke to representatives from other teams who said blah, blah, blah).

Bottom line, I don't see NE being cleared 100%, and I REALLY don't see the league issuing a formal apology to anyone.

I never see a defense attorney advise denying anything unless the accused is 110% confident of no wrong doing AND the defense believes there is no case for the prosecution. This is what we are looking at here.

This has become personal for Kraft and he isn't accepting any punishment. He's already dug his heels in and I'll take Kraft over a bunch of stumble bums in the NFL front office who have already proven over and over to be incompetent when dealing with any situation like this.

Are you an attorney? Not being a jerk - just curious. Since you are siting the fact that you dont see defense attorneys advise denying anything, I am wondering what the actual sample size is. It doesnt sound right to me at all, but I am fortunately not in a courtroom on a regular basis. Based on the amount of posts you have in here, mostly during business hours, I question the validity of your testimony regarding legal defense tactics - but my allegations may be without basis.

Seems to me that defense attorneys are often defending guilty people, and that denying guilt would be a very real strategy. If not, I guess that not denying it would tell a judge all they need to know. Lots of short trials.

 

[Road Warriors]

The fact that the league opted to launch a fair and impartial investigation tells me they had no intent on things being fair and impartial. As I already mentioned, if they really wanted to be fair and impartial, they would have never taken this on as a serious investigation. They could have approached the Pats and behind close doors asked them why there were multiple reports from other teams on under inflated footballs. They could have warned them that they would be scrutinized. They could have sent a memo to all teams pointingout the specs and requirements on footballs. Once the story broke,m they could have dismissed it and written it off quickly.

But they didn't. When they named a lead investigator and launched an investigation that would take weeks and months, that tells me that the league started out with a destinination or an outcome that they wanted to get to. To make things easier on the Pats, they could have come out and said the league currently had nothing to show the Patriots had done anything wrong but they would be continuing with their investigation. Instead, they let the Pats twist in the wind.

The Brady/BB/Kraft pressers may only have forced the investigators to try even harder to come up with something. Some people take the Pats public statements as an authoratative stance of 100% innocence. As others have said, what were they going to do, come out and admit to it? Every defense attorney in the world will advide people to deny, deny, deny.

I see no way that the league will apologize to Kraft & Co. on this, and I don't see a two month investigation completely exhonerating NE. Best case for the Pats at this point is only getting a fine for using underflated footballs. Even if the refs didn't log the PSI of the footballs upon inspection, the logically conclusion is that they all were a minimum of 12.5 PSI (which is what the league will argue).

If the league really wanted to be fair and equitable, we would not be 123 pages into this thread, as the whole thing borders on the absurd and should never have got any legs at all (IMO). But 95% of the general public has again perceived the Patriots cheated, and rest assured there are PLENTY of owners that want NE to fry (whether it be for this issue or many others that we may not even know about).

So, yeah, I think the league has an axe to grind and they will weasle word some report and statement at the end of all this that things were fishy, the Pats had motive and opportunity to deflate the footballs, and the league went easy on them by only issuing XXXXX as a penalty (which would have been way worse if they had more definitive proof or evidence). What will get me ever more is if in the report itself the league lists unspecified sources for information (ie, we spoke to representatives from other teams who said blah, blah, blah).

Bottom line, I don't see NE being cleared 100%, and I REALLY don't see the league issuing a formal apology to anyone.

I never see a defense attorney advise denying anything unless the accused is 110% confident of no wrong doing AND the defense believes there is no case for the prosecution. This is what we are looking at here.

This has become personal for Kraft and he isn't accepting any punishment. He's already dug his heels in and I'll take Kraft over a bunch of stumble bums in the NFL front office who have already proven over and over to be incompetent when dealing with any situation like this.

Are you an attorney? Not being a jerk - just curious. Since you are siting the fact that you dont see defense attorneys advise denying anything, I am wondering what the actual sample size is. It doesnt sound right to me at all, but I am fortunately not in a courtroom on a regular basis. Based on the amount of posts you have in here, mostly during business hours, I question the validity of your testimony regarding legal defense tactics - but my allegations may be without basis.

Seems to me that defense attorneys are often defending guilty people, and that denying guilt would be a very real strategy. If not, I guess that not denying it would tell a judge all they need to know. Lots of short trials.

I think the standard line from defense attorneys is "Don't talk" ever, to anyone.

 

[the moops]

We'll see who gets the last laugh when Brady starts throwing ducks because he has to use regular footballs for the Supe and not nerfs.

Hopefully he struggles as much as he did in the second half of the Colts game

Maybe he should stop deflating the balls then?

Shtick is still strong with you. Keep fighting the fight.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

The fact that the league opted to launch a fair and impartial investigation tells me they had no intent on things being fair and impartial. As I already mentioned, if they really wanted to be fair and impartial, they would have never taken this on as a serious investigation. They could have approached the Pats and behind close doors asked them why there were multiple reports from other teams on under inflated footballs. They could have warned them that they would be scrutinized. They could have sent a memo to all teams pointingout the specs and requirements on footballs. Once the story broke,m they could have dismissed it and written it off quickly.

But they didn't. When they named a lead investigator and launched an investigation that would take weeks and months, that tells me that the league started out with a destinination or an outcome that they wanted to get to. To make things easier on the Pats, they could have come out and said the league currently had nothing to show the Patriots had done anything wrong but they would be continuing with their investigation. Instead, they let the Pats twist in the wind.

The Brady/BB/Kraft pressers may only have forced the investigators to try even harder to come up with something. Some people take the Pats public statements as an authoratative stance of 100% innocence. As others have said, what were they going to do, come out and admit to it? Every defense attorney in the world will advide people to deny, deny, deny.

I see no way that the league will apologize to Kraft & Co. on this, and I don't see a two month investigation completely exhonerating NE. Best case for the Pats at this point is only getting a fine for using underflated footballs. Even if the refs didn't log the PSI of the footballs upon inspection, the logically conclusion is that they all were a minimum of 12.5 PSI (which is what the league will argue).

If the league really wanted to be fair and equitable, we would not be 123 pages into this thread, as the whole thing borders on the absurd and should never have got any legs at all (IMO). But 95% of the general public has again perceived the Patriots cheated, and rest assured there are PLENTY of owners that want NE to fry (whether it be for this issue or many others that we may not even know about).

So, yeah, I think the league has an axe to grind and they will weasle word some report and statement at the end of all this that things were fishy, the Pats had motive and opportunity to deflate the footballs, and the league went easy on them by only issuing XXXXX as a penalty (which would have been way worse if they had more definitive proof or evidence). What will get me ever more is if in the report itself the league lists unspecified sources for information (ie, we spoke to representatives from other teams who said blah, blah, blah).

Bottom line, I don't see NE being cleared 100%, and I REALLY don't see the league issuing a formal apology to anyone.

I never see a defense attorney advise denying anything unless the accused is 110% confident of no wrong doing AND the defense believes there is no case for the prosecution. This is what we are looking at here.

This has become personal for Kraft and he isn't accepting any punishment. He's already dug his heels in and I'll take Kraft over a bunch of stumble bums in the NFL front office who have already proven over and over to be incompetent when dealing with any situation like this.

Are you an attorney? Not being a jerk - just curious. Since you are siting the fact that you dont see defense attorneys advise denying anything, I am wondering what the actual sample size is. It doesnt sound right to me at all, but I am fortunately not in a courtroom on a regular basis. Based on the amount of posts you have in here, mostly during business hours, I question the validity of your testimony regarding legal defense tactics - but my allegations may be without basis.

Seems to me that defense attorneys are often defending guilty people, and that denying guilt would be a very real strategy. If not, I guess that not denying it would tell a judge all they need to know. Lots of short trials.

I am (not a criminal defense attorney though) - he's right in some respect as the burden of proof is heavily on the State. Often times a defense attorney will rest, meaning not even present a case (no witnesses, testimony, etc.), if they don't think the prosecution proved their defendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt - as it could do more harm than good. Even if they present a case many times they will not put the defendant on the stand as that opens him up to a cross examination where he could stumble and hurt his case.

Of course those standards don't apply here, as the burden of proof is far lighter - despite some people in here calling for a criminal law standard.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

The fact that the league opted to launch a fair and impartial investigation tells me they had no intent on things being fair and impartial. As I already mentioned, if they really wanted to be fair and impartial, they would have never taken this on as a serious investigation. They could have approached the Pats and behind close doors asked them why there were multiple reports from other teams on under inflated footballs. They could have warned them that they would be scrutinized. They could have sent a memo to all teams pointingout the specs and requirements on footballs. Once the story broke,m they could have dismissed it and written it off quickly.

But they didn't. When they named a lead investigator and launched an investigation that would take weeks and months, that tells me that the league started out with a destinination or an outcome that they wanted to get to. To make things easier on the Pats, they could have come out and said the league currently had nothing to show the Patriots had done anything wrong but they would be continuing with their investigation. Instead, they let the Pats twist in the wind.

The Brady/BB/Kraft pressers may only have forced the investigators to try even harder to come up with something. Some people take the Pats public statements as an authoratative stance of 100% innocence. As others have said, what were they going to do, come out and admit to it? Every defense attorney in the world will advide people to deny, deny, deny.

I see no way that the league will apologize to Kraft & Co. on this, and I don't see a two month investigation completely exhonerating NE. Best case for the Pats at this point is only getting a fine for using underflated footballs. Even if the refs didn't log the PSI of the footballs upon inspection, the logically conclusion is that they all were a minimum of 12.5 PSI (which is what the league will argue).

If the league really wanted to be fair and equitable, we would not be 123 pages into this thread, as the whole thing borders on the absurd and should never have got any legs at all (IMO). But 95% of the general public has again perceived the Patriots cheated, and rest assured there are PLENTY of owners that want NE to fry (whether it be for this issue or many others that we may not even know about).

So, yeah, I think the league has an axe to grind and they will weasle word some report and statement at the end of all this that things were fishy, the Pats had motive and opportunity to deflate the footballs, and the league went easy on them by only issuing XXXXX as a penalty (which would have been way worse if they had more definitive proof or evidence). What will get me ever more is if in the report itself the league lists unspecified sources for information (ie, we spoke to representatives from other teams who said blah, blah, blah).

Bottom line, I don't see NE being cleared 100%, and I REALLY don't see the league issuing a formal apology to anyone.

I never see a defense attorney advise denying anything unless the accused is 110% confident of no wrong doing AND the defense believes there is no case for the prosecution. This is what we are looking at here.

This has become personal for Kraft and he isn't accepting any punishment. He's already dug his heels in and I'll take Kraft over a bunch of stumble bums in the NFL front office who have already proven over and over to be incompetent when dealing with any situation like this.

Are you an attorney? Not being a jerk - just curious. Since you are siting the fact that you dont see defense attorneys advise denying anything, I am wondering what the actual sample size is. It doesnt sound right to me at all, but I am fortunately not in a courtroom on a regular basis. Based on the amount of posts you have in here, mostly during business hours, I question the validity of your testimony regarding legal defense tactics - but my allegations may be without basis.

Seems to me that defense attorneys are often defending guilty people, and that denying guilt would be a very real strategy. If not, I guess that not denying it would tell a judge all they need to know. Lots of short trials.

I think the standard line from defense attorneys is "Don't talk" ever, to anyone.

At some point it would seem that you have to or you are not defending yourself. I find the theory that guilty people never proclaim to be innocent tough to fathom, but its not my chosen profession, so I am no expert.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

The fact that the league opted to launch a fair and impartial investigation tells me they had no intent on things being fair and impartial. As I already mentioned, if they really wanted to be fair and impartial, they would have never taken this on as a serious investigation. They could have approached the Pats and behind close doors asked them why there were multiple reports from other teams on under inflated footballs. They could have warned them that they would be scrutinized. They could have sent a memo to all teams pointingout the specs and requirements on footballs. Once the story broke,m they could have dismissed it and written it off quickly.

But they didn't. When they named a lead investigator and launched an investigation that would take weeks and months, that tells me that the league started out with a destinination or an outcome that they wanted to get to. To make things easier on the Pats, they could have come out and said the league currently had nothing to show the Patriots had done anything wrong but they would be continuing with their investigation. Instead, they let the Pats twist in the wind.

The Brady/BB/Kraft pressers may only have forced the investigators to try even harder to come up with something. Some people take the Pats public statements as an authoratative stance of 100% innocence. As others have said, what were they going to do, come out and admit to it? Every defense attorney in the world will advide people to deny, deny, deny.

I see no way that the league will apologize to Kraft & Co. on this, and I don't see a two month investigation completely exhonerating NE. Best case for the Pats at this point is only getting a fine for using underflated footballs. Even if the refs didn't log the PSI of the footballs upon inspection, the logically conclusion is that they all were a minimum of 12.5 PSI (which is what the league will argue).

If the league really wanted to be fair and equitable, we would not be 123 pages into this thread, as the whole thing borders on the absurd and should never have got any legs at all (IMO). But 95% of the general public has again perceived the Patriots cheated, and rest assured there are PLENTY of owners that want NE to fry (whether it be for this issue or many others that we may not even know about).

So, yeah, I think the league has an axe to grind and they will weasle word some report and statement at the end of all this that things were fishy, the Pats had motive and opportunity to deflate the footballs, and the league went easy on them by only issuing XXXXX as a penalty (which would have been way worse if they had more definitive proof or evidence). What will get me ever more is if in the report itself the league lists unspecified sources for information (ie, we spoke to representatives from other teams who said blah, blah, blah).

Bottom line, I don't see NE being cleared 100%, and I REALLY don't see the league issuing a formal apology to anyone.

I never see a defense attorney advise denying anything unless the accused is 110% confident of no wrong doing AND the defense believes there is no case for the prosecution. This is what we are looking at here.

This has become personal for Kraft and he isn't accepting any punishment. He's already dug his heels in and I'll take Kraft over a bunch of stumble bums in the NFL front office who have already proven over and over to be incompetent when dealing with any situation like this.

Are you an attorney? Not being a jerk - just curious. Since you are siting the fact that you dont see defense attorneys advise denying anything, I am wondering what the actual sample size is. It doesnt sound right to me at all, but I am fortunately not in a courtroom on a regular basis. Based on the amount of posts you have in here, mostly during business hours, I question the validity of your testimony regarding legal defense tactics - but my allegations may be without basis.

Seems to me that defense attorneys are often defending guilty people, and that denying guilt would be a very real strategy. If not, I guess that not denying it would tell a judge all they need to know. Lots of short trials.

I am (not a criminal defense attorney though) - he's right in some respect as the burden of proof is heavily on the State. Often times a defense attorney will rest, meaning not even present a case (no witnesses, testimony, etc.), if they don't think the prosecution proved their defendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt - as it could do more harm than good. Even if they present a case many times they will not put the defendant on the stand as that opens him up to a cross examination where he could stumble and hurt his case.

Of course those standards don't apply here, as the burden of proof is far lighter - despite some people in here calling for a criminal law standard.

That all makes sense. I guess it was the word "never" in the statement that got my attention.

Also, wouldnt pleading "not guilty" be akin to denying guilt? Even if it is not coupled with testimony?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

The fact that the league opted to launch a fair and impartial investigation tells me they had no intent on things being fair and impartial. As I already mentioned, if they really wanted to be fair and impartial, they would have never taken this on as a serious investigation. They could have approached the Pats and behind close doors asked them why there were multiple reports from other teams on under inflated footballs. They could have warned them that they would be scrutinized. They could have sent a memo to all teams pointingout the specs and requirements on footballs. Once the story broke,m they could have dismissed it and written it off quickly.

But they didn't. When they named a lead investigator and launched an investigation that would take weeks and months, that tells me that the league started out with a destinination or an outcome that they wanted to get to. To make things easier on the Pats, they could have come out and said the league currently had nothing to show the Patriots had done anything wrong but they would be continuing with their investigation. Instead, they let the Pats twist in the wind.

The Brady/BB/Kraft pressers may only have forced the investigators to try even harder to come up with something. Some people take the Pats public statements as an authoratative stance of 100% innocence. As others have said, what were they going to do, come out and admit to it? Every defense attorney in the world will advide people to deny, deny, deny.

I see no way that the league will apologize to Kraft & Co. on this, and I don't see a two month investigation completely exhonerating NE. Best case for the Pats at this point is only getting a fine for using underflated footballs. Even if the refs didn't log the PSI of the footballs upon inspection, the logically conclusion is that they all were a minimum of 12.5 PSI (which is what the league will argue).

If the league really wanted to be fair and equitable, we would not be 123 pages into this thread, as the whole thing borders on the absurd and should never have got any legs at all (IMO). But 95% of the general public has again perceived the Patriots cheated, and rest assured there are PLENTY of owners that want NE to fry (whether it be for this issue or many others that we may not even know about).

So, yeah, I think the league has an axe to grind and they will weasle word some report and statement at the end of all this that things were fishy, the Pats had motive and opportunity to deflate the footballs, and the league went easy on them by only issuing XXXXX as a penalty (which would have been way worse if they had more definitive proof or evidence). What will get me ever more is if in the report itself the league lists unspecified sources for information (ie, we spoke to representatives from other teams who said blah, blah, blah).

Bottom line, I don't see NE being cleared 100%, and I REALLY don't see the league issuing a formal apology to anyone.

I never see a defense attorney advise denying anything unless the accused is 110% confident of no wrong doing AND the defense believes there is no case for the prosecution. This is what we are looking at here.

This has become personal for Kraft and he isn't accepting any punishment. He's already dug his heels in and I'll take Kraft over a bunch of stumble bums in the NFL front office who have already proven over and over to be incompetent when dealing with any situation like this.

Are you an attorney? Not being a jerk - just curious. Since you are siting the fact that you dont see defense attorneys advise denying anything, I am wondering what the actual sample size is. It doesnt sound right to me at all, but I am fortunately not in a courtroom on a regular basis. Based on the amount of posts you have in here, mostly during business hours, I question the validity of your testimony regarding legal defense tactics - but my allegations may be without basis.

Seems to me that defense attorneys are often defending guilty people, and that denying guilt would be a very real strategy. If not, I guess that not denying it would tell a judge all they need to know. Lots of short trials.

I am (not a criminal defense attorney though) - he's right in some respect as the burden of proof is heavily on the State. Often times a defense attorney will rest, meaning not even present a case (no witnesses, testimony, etc.), if they don't think the prosecution proved their defendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt - as it could do more harm than good. Even if they present a case many times they will not put the defendant on the stand as that opens him up to a cross examination where he could stumble and hurt his case.

Of course those standards don't apply here, as the burden of proof is far lighter - despite some people in here calling for a criminal law standard.

That all makes sense. I guess it was the word "never" in the statement that got my attention.

Also, wouldnt pleading "not guilty" be akin to denying guilt? Even if it is not coupled with testimony?

In a way, yes - but it's also a way of saying you will exercise your right to a fair trial and have the State prove it's case.

 

[the moops]

There is no way that it is a 50.1% likelihood that the Patriots tampered with the footballs. After all these most recent "facts", it has gotta be a minuscule number.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

There is no way that it is a 50.1% likelihood that the Patriots tampered with the footballs. After all these most recent "facts", it has gotta be a minuscule number.

I agree, unless there is more evidence that we haven't heard yet. I don't think the league could punish them at all if all recent reports are true - maybe the $25,000 fine per rule because the balls were technically low.

 

[Anarchy99]

There is no way that it is a 50.1% likelihood that the Patriots tampered with the footballs. After all these most recent "facts", it has gotta be a minuscule number.

We don't know what we don't know. If the league has concerns and complaints that NE has consistently been playing with under inflated footballs, they could certainly making a compelling argument that this has been an ongoing practice. If you believe that the standard is only 50.1% evidence, that could be enough for the league with a straight face to impse some sort of penalty. And who knows what else they have to work with.

 

[David Dodds]

For those suggesting fairness: Dallas and Washington were penalized harshly by the league for circumventing the cap when there was no cap (strike killed the cap for a bit). If the rest of the league owners want to punish your team, it's going to happen. Both of these teams had legal recourse available to them, but both just took their unfair punishments.

My gut tells me these things:

- NFL refs were extremely lax in checking the pressure of footballs before or during an NFL game. It was likely widely accepted that your QB could play with footballs that he liked regardless of the psi reading.

- The Patriots pushed this by introducing game balls below the starting threshold that would lose a lot of psi by the time the game would play (We can all guess at the method, but I seriously doubt the league knows exactly what was done)

- A sting was likely put in play, based on an earlier game, but no one fully informed the refs exactly how to carry this out. And because they were not routinely doing their job (checking psi and logging the results), the sting got botched.

- The NFL has had ample opportunity to make this go away by admitting this was a rule that wasn't really enforced. Refs did not routinely check the pressure, etc. They could have even put the Patriots (and the rest of the NFL) on notice by saying balls confiscated ended the game below stated psi levels. And this would be something the league took much more serious going forward, etc. When the league chose not to announce anything immediately, I believe they will punish the Patriots (regardless of evidence collected)

- It probably will not be fair (and likely could not stand up to a court process). The Commish (and NFL office) appear to have a vendetta in play. It could very well have to do with them feeling they "saved" the Patriots by destroying all of the Spygate tapes so they expected better from them, etc. Or it could just be that Goodell is a puppet to the rest of the owners and they refuse to let up on this.

- For all the Patriots fans, this has to suck really bad. The league has tarnished your guys image a lot with this scandal. The findings / lack of proof / etc don't really matter anymore. If the final penalties are light, the "salty haters" think they were spared again. If they are heavy, those "haters" are saying yes, this team just cheats to win.

- I am sure I will enjoy the game when it is happening, but this has soured the contest a lot for me. Vegas set this line super close. People are massively divided as to who has the better team. This should have been set up as something great to watch instead of the soap opera that it has become.

 

[Workhorse]

Thanks David, for the reasoned take on all of this.

FWIW, Bob Kravitz (the Indy reporter who broke the original story) was just on WEEI in Boston saying that he doesn't think Pats will be in any trouble and could be fully exonerated. He also said that there won't be any lasting impact on the Pats and Brady's legacy once the league issues their report.

Quite a 180 from him considering he was calling for Kraft to fire Belichick last week.

 

[Old Smiley]

Thanks David, for the reasoned take on all of this.

FWIW, Bob Kravitz (the Indy reporter who broke the original story) was just on WEEI in Boston saying that he doesn't think Pats will be in any trouble and could be fully exonerated. He also said that there won't be any lasting impact on the Pats and Brady's legacy once the league issues their report.

Quite a 180 from him considering he was calling for Kraft to fire Belichick last week.

Pretty sure he was the guy who asked, in a totally non-hot-sports-takey way, what he was going to tell his children. Teh Childrinz!

 

[BassNBrew]

LOL at the comments on both sides. Looks like Dodds has done a 180 too.

If there's anything the league should have learned it is to take it slow in these types of situations. For as much as people are crucifying them over how the Pats are being treated, the rest of the NFL also has a right to a full investigation. The worst thing that could happen to the NFL would be for them to clear the Pats and then TMZ or someone else come out with a video of interview that the balls were tampered with. If that were going to happen, I would think someone would cash in right before the Super Bowl. Makes total sense to proceed slowly here.

Once again regarding the leaks…it sucks. By the same token, I'm not going to hold the NFL to a higher standard then or POTUS or Congress who routinely have people leak things that impact our country. For those who think Goodell should be fired over this, check back with me once the ratings are released and both the owner's and player's wallets get fatter going forward.

It really wan't Goodell painting Brady and co. in a bad light, it's the media and guys like Dodds making judgements before all the facts are released.

 

[BassNBrew]

Thanks David, for the reasoned take on all of this.

FWIW, Bob Kravitz (the Indy reporter who broke the original story) was just on WEEI in Boston saying that he doesn't think Pats will be in any trouble and could be fully exonerated. He also said that there won't be any lasting impact on the Pats and Brady's legacy once the league issues their report.

Quite a 180 from him considering he was calling for Kraft to fire Belichick last week.

Maybe Kravitz should be fired???

 

[ROCKET]

My take on the attorney was that :

An attorney (s) hired by billionaire owner Robert Kraft would never advise him to come out as strongly as he did in defense of the players, coaches and organization IF he thought there was any chance of the Pats being found guilty. If the attorney thought there was a possibility of them being found guilty he would have advised him to lay low and let the process play out.

The fact that Kraft challenged the league so vehemently speaks volumes to me as to what Kraft's attorneys think is in play going forward. My opinion is only for the Kraft situation and not every case being tried. These attorneys that Kraft is listening to are not fools.

I would be hesitant to say the same about the league's front office given their track record.

 

[Old Smiley]

LOL at the comments on both sides. Looks like Dodds has done a 180 too.

If there's anything the league should have learned it is to take it slow in these types of situations. For as much as people are crucifying them over how the Pats are being treated, the rest of the NFL also has a right to a full investigation. The worst thing that could happen to the NFL would be for them to clear the Pats and then TMZ or someone else come out with a video of interview that the balls were tampered with. If that were going to happen, I would think someone would cash in right before the Super Bowl. Makes total sense to proceed slowly here.

Once again regarding the leaks…it sucks. By the same token, I'm not going to hold the NFL to a higher standard then or POTUS or Congress who routinely have people leak things that impact our country. For those who think Goodell should be fired over this, check back with me once the ratings are released and both the owner's and player's wallets get fatter going forward.

It really wan't Goodell painting Brady and co. in a bad light, it's the media and guys like Dodds making judgements before all the facts are released.

As I said before, I watch football to get away from that garbage. Also maybe if we stopped it somewhere...

However, fear not! My apathy and cynicism are unshaken.

 

[Brony]

Finally got my "Deflate-gate 2015" tat. It's pretty sweet

 

[Anarchy99]

Predictions on Goodell's presser? I would guess he is Roger the Dodger and only says the investigation is on going and deflect questions by saying those types of things are what is being investigated and will be reported on in the final report.

 

[ROCKET]

Finally got my "Deflate-gate 2015" tat. It's pretty sweet

On your balls?

 

[Workhorse]

Predictions on Goodell's presser? I would guess he is Roger the Dodger and only says the investigation is on going and deflect questions by saying those types of things are what is being investigated and will be reported on in the final report.

Probably about 90% chance that happens but I'm wondering if the other 10% is the apology that Kraft is looking for. Stranger things have happened.

 

[Anarchy99]

Forgot to mention that Boston talk radio thinks Kraft will get his full apology today and the Pats will fully be exonerated today, which I think is wishful thinking.

 

[Old Smiley]

Predictions on Goodell's presser? I would guess he is Roger the Dodger and only says the investigation is on going and deflect questions by saying those types of things are what is being investigated and will be reported on in the final report.

clik: we have to do better click: i have to do better clik: i will do better

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Forgot to mention that Boston talk radio thinks Kraft will get his full apology today and the Pats will fully be exonerated today, which I think is wishful thinking.

Yeah, I just don't see that happening. At best I could see Goodell admitting there has been a lot of wrong information that has been leaked and reported in the press and that everyone needs to let the investigation takes it course. However, I doubt he even goes there.