Patriots being investigated after Colts game (1 Viewer)

[Anarchy99]

How can anyone honestly read the report and those text messages and still believe that there was no deliberate tampering of the footballs? Blind homerism is still strong in this thread.

I think when the balls were deflated will be a huge part of the penalty. For example, if the attendants under inflated the balls and tried to get them through the pregame inspection process I personally think that is on par with a misdemeanor (and something that other teams most likely do all the time). If they were within spec at the pregame inspection and then they secretly took air out, that would be more of a felony.

The one thing I did see that I thought was interesting was the football rubbing process with tacky gloves that is described in the back of the report. It noted that rubbing the footballs with gloves on for 30 minutes could add .75 PSI to the ball pressure.

If the Pats somehow mastered putting the least amount of air in the football and then rubbed them before the game, it's conceivable that that could explain less pressure in the footballs. So in theory, they could have inflated the footballs to 11.75 PSI, had the attendants rub them to get them to 12.5 PSI, the footballs would drop to 11.75 fairly quickly and would have dropped even more by game time and being out on the field to settle in at say 11-11.5 PSI. I think all but two of the AFCCG footballs measured in that range at halftime.

The issue for Goodell will be "probably did it." What does that really translate to?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Goodell justice is not just. He is 0-fer when challenged in court, his claims of evidence and authority are never validated. Vilma, AP, Rice, he has lost every time. And in TapeGate whoops the tapes ie the evidence were destroyed. The refs handle the ball of every single play of every single game but one squeeze from D'Qwell and the truth is discovered? Please if something has been going on the NFL has known of it every step if the way, and if the "ignorance is no excuse" is applied to Brady or BB it should be applied to Goodell also.

 

[Tango]

How can anyone honestly read the report and those text messages and still believe that there was no deliberate tampering of the footballs? Blind homerism is still strong in this thread.

How can anyone read the report, and not understand what "probable" means? "Probable" mean "likely", but doesn't prove it.

Right, they "probably" knew. Agree. All signs point to it. The evidence is there. Then there is the lying about it where they literally laughed in the face of the fans/press, etc.

That's "probably" enough for discipline for the team and Brady. If they apply the "ignorance is not an excuse" standard, Belichick could be looking at discipline too.

 

[espnespn]

How can anyone honestly read the report and those text messages and still believe that there was no deliberate tampering of the footballs? Blind homerism is still strong in this thread.

How can anyone read the report, and not understand what "probable" means? "Probable" mean "likely", but doesn't prove it.

I'm unclear on the name 'Deflater'.

When someone calls them self that, what does it mean?

The game ball for the Jets game was at 16 PSI. It looks like he was told to make sure they were deflated below that.

Does it mean he also deflated under 12.5 PSI?

 

[johnnycakes]

at some of those text messages.... wonder if Jastremski still works there... the report says he's 35 and has worked for the Patriots over 20 years. Kinda like the Chumlee of the Patriots organization: "Tom sucks... I'm going to make that next ball a effing balloon". (p.77)

 

[espnespn]

How can anyone honestly read the report and those text messages and still believe that there was no deliberate tampering of the footballs? Blind homerism is still strong in this thread.

How can anyone read the report, and not understand what "probable" means? "Probable" mean "likely", but doesn't prove it.

Did you read the texts?

Please show where the texts admit to deflating post-inspection, instead of pre-inspection?

 

[Run It Up]

So lets say back in January Brady admits to telepathically deflating the footballs as they are introduced into the game, completely circumventing all measures.

25 to life right?

 

[massraider]

Sam Farmer ‏@LATimesfarmer 2h2 hours agoLos Angeles, CA
Locker room attendant said he'd taken balls into that bathroom many times. Just stopped to use urinal. (Turns out, no urinal in there.)

 

[GroveDiesel]

How can anyone honestly read the report and those text messages and still believe that there was no deliberate tampering of the footballs? Blind homerism is still strong in this thread.

I think when the balls were deflated will be a huge part of the penalty. For example, if the attendants under inflated the balls and tried to get them through the pregame inspection process I personally think that is on par with a misdemeanor (and something that other teams most likely do all the time). If they were within spec at the pregame inspection and then they secretly took air out, that would be more of a felony.The one thing I did see that I thought was interesting was the football rubbing process with tacky gloves that is described in the back of the report. It noted that rubbing the footballs with gloves on for 30 minutes could add .75 PSI to the ball pressure.

If the Pats somehow mastered putting the least amount of air in the football and then rubbed them before the game, it's conceivable that that could explain less pressure in the footballs. So in theory, they could have inflated the footballs to 11.75 PSI, had the attendants rub them to get them to 12.5 PSI, the footballs would drop to 11.75 fairly quickly and would have dropped even more by game time and being out on the field to settle in at say 11-11.5 PSI. I think all but two of the AFCCG footballs measured in that range at halftime.

The issue for Goodell will be "probably did it." What does that really translate to?

All those texts from McNally about being the deflator and getting a needle certainly makes it sound like they were deflating the balls after inspection.

 

[Anarchy99]

How can anyone honestly read the report and those text messages and still believe that there was no deliberate tampering of the footballs? Blind homerism is still strong in this thread.

How can anyone read the report, and not understand what "probable" means? "Probable" mean "likely", but doesn't prove it.

Right, they "probably" knew. Agree. All signs point to it. The evidence is there. Then there is the lying about it where they literally laughed in the face of the fans/press, etc.

That's "probably" enough for discipline for the team and Brady. If they apply the "ignorance is not an excuse" standard, Belichick could be looking at discipline too.

Before people scream at me for trying to get the Patriots out of jail on this one, I would guess the league will suspend Brady 2-3 games if only because they will look like they are playing favorites if they don't. However, I think they will time things and frame things in such a manner that Brady will appeal and not miss time in any important games. So he'll appeal and get his suspension reduced to a single game and (the horror!) he'll miss a home game against JAC, WAS, or TEN.

But as far as the "ignorance is not an excuse" standard, why wouldn't coaches get suspended if players are caught doing PEDs, especially teams with multiple players suspended. That would violate the rules, and under this clause coaches should need to be accountable and own up to everything that goes on.

 

[Run It Up]

I think its clear enough to make a reasonable assumption that something probably happened that shouldn't have, but the link to Brady is almost non-existent.

He asks them to prepare balls a certain way, when they aren't he gets upset. #### rolls down hill - gets to Mcnally, Mcnally makes a poor decision that sheds a lot of light on something no one ####### cares about when it isn't the patriots.

 

[flapgreen]

375]Following New Englands 27-25 win over the Jets in Week 7, Brady complained angrily about the inflation levels of the footballs, the report stated, which prompted an exchange between McNally and Jastremski.

375]Tom sucks, McNally wrote in a text message to Jastremski. im going to make that next ball a f--king balloon.

A week later, on October 23, Jastremski texted McNally Cant wait to give you your needle this week to which McNally responded, F--k tom....make sure the pump is attached to the needle.....f--kin watermelons coming.



375]So angry, Jastremski responded.

375]The only thing deflating sun..is his passing rating, McNally responded.

375]The report also shows that the two were aware of deflating footballs as early as May of 2014, with McNally referring to himself as the deflator in texts with Jastremski.

375]McNally worked for the Patriots for 32 years as a seasonal part-time employee and, judging from the text messages, knew that the Patriots were playing fast and loose with the rules.

375]Im not going to ESPN........ yet, he texted Jastremski on May 9, 2014.

375]In addition to cursing Brady, McNally also seemed to want some sort of payment in exchange for his ball deflating services.

375]I have a big needle for u this week, Jastremski wrote to McNally before a Week 8 game against the Bears.

375]Better be surrounded by cash and newkicks....or its a rugby sunday, McNally responded. F--k tom.

 

[massraider]

I think its clear enough to make a reasonable assumption that something probably happened that shouldn't have, but the link to Brady is almost non-existent.

He asks them to prepare balls a certain way, when they aren't he gets upset. #### rolls down hill - gets to Mcnally, Mcnally makes a poor decision that sheds a lot of light on something no one ####### cares about when it isn't the patriots.

According to the Wells Report, Brady and Patriots equipment assistant John Jastremski communicated via telephone at least six times before Jastremski turned in his telephone to the Patriots to be imaged forensically on January 21.

Overall, Brady and Jastremski had two conversations apiece occurring on January 20 and 21 and “at least” two conversations on January 19, investigators assert. Brady and Jastremski spoke for nearly an hour in total over the three days, the Wells Report found.

Moreover, investigators allege they found Brady sent text messages to Jastremski “seemingly designed to calm” the equipment assistant.

“You good Jonny boy?” read one of the texts allegedly sent by Brady to Jastremski.

Wrote Jastremski in one of his text messages to Brady, as found by the report: “Still nervous; so far so good though.”

According to the Wells Report, Jastremski and Brady had not texted or communicated over the phone for more than six months prior to January 19.

Brady is also alleged to have invited Jastremski to the Patriots’ quarterbacks room on January 19 — something that had never occurred previously, Jastremski was alleged to have told investigators.

After the inflation allegations against the Patriots surfaced after their win in the AFC title game on January 18, Brady told Boston radio station WEEI that it was “ridiculous” to believe New England was improperly altering footballs.

 

[massraider]

They did it: All. Year. Long.

 

[The General]

What's going to be interesting is the first interviews of

the ball guys now that it looks like they are going to take

the fall here. Do they just go all crazy and burn the whole

house down and spill more details?

The thing that hurts Brady is the commish can't risk someone

playing the race card here if he is planning on going easy

on Brady.

Peterson and Rice's actions took place off the field and they

got basically a year. Brady's actions took place on the field and

"Could" have impacted the actual game. I think he gets 4-6 games.

Sorry typing this on a phone.

In the Peterson and Rice situations, Peterson and Rice were guilty of something.Brady isn't guilty of anything, he is loosely connected to two individuals who might have done something but after a 100 day investigation they aren't certain anything even happened.

Haven't read much and haven't had time to watch anything today but I was seeing texts from the equipment guys basically saying they were getting stuff from Brady. Is that not right?

Thats how I interpreted the text messages yes. Mcnally seemed to be receiving gifts from Brady (something in the report claims he does for everyone, and didn't for Mcnally until he knew who Mcnally even was.)The equipment manager, the guy that isn't Mcnally is the guy Tom Brady knew, and was having conversations with Mcnally via text. When the Wells investigation asked Tom if he knew Mcnally and he said no, people thought that was odd, but even in the text messages it makes it pretty ####### clear that Tom doesn't deal with Mcnally ever, he deals with his equipment manager.

Edit: The other guy: John Jastremski, equipment manager.

I guess I'm going to have to read more because I'm not following all that very well. Without having read into and just seeing little bits it seems Brady was telling guys to fix the balls and hooking them up with swag. If that's right he's going to get suspended for a bit.

It sounds like there may be grey area with how he knew those guys or whatever based on what you are saying but I haven't had time to parse through everything to follow that.

If Brady lied about this when he did his press conference which I remember him being clear that he said he knew nothing about this then he gets suspended for a bit, right?

Everyone would agree to that I would think.

 

[moleculo]

What's going to be interesting is the first interviews of

the ball guys now that it looks like they are going to take

the fall here. Do they just go all crazy and burn the whole

house down and spill more details?

The thing that hurts Brady is the commish can't risk someone

playing the race card here if he is planning on going easy

on Brady.

Peterson and Rice's actions took place off the field and they

got basically a year. Brady's actions took place on the field and

"Could" have impacted the actual game. I think he gets 4-6 games.

Sorry typing this on a phone.

In the Peterson and Rice situations, Peterson and Rice were guilty of something.

Brady isn't guilty of anything, he is loosely connected to two individuals who might have done something but after a 100 day investigation they aren't certain anything even happened.

This entire thing has multiple points where it hinges on completely nothing but someones word. The balls were at 12.5 before the game, because the official responsible for making sure they were, said they were - the Wells investigation accepts this as fact, ignoring that they weren't recorded, DESPITE the complaint pregame and the briefing telling him to make sure.

no, they are certain something happened. We know the balls were under-inflated beyond what could be expected from atmospheric conditions. We know the locker room attendants were sensitive to air pressure in the balls, at the direction of Brady. We know the balls were out of control from the officials pre-game, specifically the balls were in possession of the attendant for 1:40 pre-game. We know it is possible to deflate 12 balls within 1:40.

The only thing missing is a signed confession or video evidence of the crime.

This is impossible to know, unless you know the starting PSI. Which the report clearly says that they assume is 12.5 PSI.

There was a CNNSI video of refs checking ball pressure for another game, and they sure didn't look very diligent in checking PSI. I believe one of the refs in the video checking PSI says something like: "eh...close enough".

no. read page 52:

When tested, all of the Patriots footballs—both game balls and back-up balls—registered on the lower-end of the permissible inflation range. Anderson recalls that most of the

Patriots footballs measured 12.5 psi, though there may have been one or two that measured 12.6

psi. No air was added to or released from these balls because they were within the permissible

range. According to Anderson, two of the game balls provided by the Patriots measured below

the 12.5 psi threshold. Yette used the air pump provided by the Patriots to inflate those footballs,

explaining that he “purposefully overshot” the range (because it is hard to be precise when

adding air), and then gave the footballs back to Anderson, who used the air release valve on his

gauge to reduce the pressure down to 12.5 psi.

...

NFL game officials are not required to, and do not as a matter of standard

practice, record in writing the pressure measurements taken during their pre-game inspections of

game balls. We credit Anderson‟s recollection of the pre-game measurements taken on the day

of the AFC Championship Game based on both the level of confidence Anderson expressed in

his recollection and the consistency of his recollection with information provided by each of the

Patriots and Colts regarding their target inflation levels.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

The people defending Tom Brady remind me of the people who defended Joe Paterno.

Really?

Yep. Completely blind homerism. Denial in the face of stark reality.

Seeing Melissa Stark, now as opposed to 15 years ago, in the morning, without makeup.

Still hot.

 

[johnnycakes]

I'm sure BB is pissed those guys were dumb enough to talk about this by sms. In the future they will be instructed to use that snapchat thing

 

[Joe Summer]

We have multiple instances of other teams doctoring balls

Do we have multiple instances of repeated and systematic doctoring?

 

[mbuehner]

I'm sure BB is pissed those guys were dumb enough to talk about this by sms. In the future they will be instructed to use that snapchat thing

We have multiple instances of other teams doctoring balls

Do we have multiple instances of repeated and systematic doctoring?

You suppose they got caught the first time they tried it? Come on.

 

[Run It Up]

We have multiple instances of other teams doctoring balls

Do we have multiple instances of repeated and systematic doctoring?

I don't think we have one instance of that happening.

 

[johnnycakes]

When BB & TB retire they should go to the Hall of Infamy.

 

[mbuehner]

I'm sure BB is pissed those guys were dumb enough to talk about this by sms. In the future they will be instructed to use that snapchat thing

Heh. Except they can pull those out too. Damned NSA. This is exactly why dont believe in conspiracy theories. People cant keep their mouths shut.

 

[metoo]

I'm sure BB is pissed those guys were dumb enough to talk about this by sms. In the future they will be instructed to use that snapchat thing

If they watched The Wire, they wouldn't be in this trouble.

 

[flapgreen]

I love that the equipment guys hate Tom.

 

[Run It Up]

When BB & TB retire they should go to the Hall of Infamy.

They will run the Evil League of Evil.

Steelers, Cowboys, Niners, Packers, Patriots, Giants and Bears. And atop the throne, BB and his disciple in waiting.

 

[johnnycakes]

@ TB12 not turning over his phone for investigation.

 

[flapgreen]

How can anyone honestly read the report and those text messages and still believe that there was no deliberate tampering of the footballs? Blind homerism is still strong in this thread.

Some people won't believe it unless their Idol admits it or there is actual video evidence. Crazy

 

[Run It Up]

@ TB12 not turning over his phone for investigation.

They have Mcnally and Jastremski's phone records. Unless there was a third, even more insidious perpetrator, there was no reason for Tom to hand over his phone. I'm sure there is all kinds of #### he doesn't want people to know.

 

[Koya]

Hey, Pats fans - it's a BILLION percent apparent that:

1. Yes, you are champions and one of the better / best teams of this era.

2. Every single one of your accomplishments is fully tainted. Doesn't mean you would not have won without the cheating (repeatedly), but we don't know that you would have either.

So, stop with the whining. Enjoy the (tainted) super bowl and accept that your team does not DESERVE respect. Unfortunately, it's quite the opposite.

But yes, you are (cheating) champions. Enjoy the stench of another tainted victory and the knowledge that your own team's actions have disqualified you from any legit "best ever" conversation.

(Plus, even WITH all that cheating, you are still the Giants' Super Bowl #####. 18-1)

 

[massraider]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 2m2 minutes ago
Wells Report: Officials couldn't find game balls 15 minutes before AFC title game, a first for Walt Anderson

 

[rascal]

I'm writing my senator demanding a suspension fine equal to that of Sean Peyton. Bb is responsible for the actions of his team.

 

[Run It Up]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 2m2 minutes ago
Wells Report: Officials couldn't find game balls 15 minutes before AFC title game, a first for Walt Anderson

But they were only unaccounted for for a minute forty... lmfao.

15 minutes is an estimate, they said they didn't know when the balls went missing, they just know when he noticed they were missing. The officials were completely irresponsible before the AFCCG.

They were even briefed hours before the game to make sure to keep an eye on the pressure.

 

[David Dodds]

My best guess at the punishment:

3-4 games for Tom

$1M fine to the Patriots

$250K fine to Tom

I don't see draft choices, but that's also possible. A harsh penalty, but not one that the Patriots organization will fight. It's probably a stupid rule (why not allow each team to inflate to their liking), but this report paints a picture that this wasn't something that happened one time.

 

[Bucky86]

My best guess at the punishment:

3-4 games for Tom

$1M fine to the Patriots

$250K fine to Tom

I don't see draft choices, but that's also possible. A harsh penalty, but not one that the Patriots organization will fight. It's probably a stupid rule (why not allow each team to inflate to their liking), but this report paints a picture that this wasn't something that happened one time.

$1,250,000 buys you a trip to the Super Bowl.

 

[David Dodds]

How much do you think Brady will need to pay the "deflators" once they get fired to not spill everything shady about all of this?

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

Man, I can't wait till these ball boys give an exclusive interview to someone spilling their guts! "Yeah Tom knew what was going on, and he would pay us in signed jerseys, shoes, and other things!" BOOM!

 

[Run It Up]

It's probably a stupid rule (why not allow each team to inflate to their liking)

This isn't discussed enough. All QBs have a preference, the league clearly doesn't care unless they are under-inflated and/or the Patriots.

Little to no competitive advantage to begin, just let them use their preference.

If anything good comes of this (besides the ring, lmfao) it will be a rule change.

 

[David Dodds]

My best guess at the punishment:

3-4 games for Tom

$1M fine to the Patriots

$250K fine to Tom

I don't see draft choices, but that's also possible. A harsh penalty, but not one that the Patriots organization will fight. It's probably a stupid rule (why not allow each team to inflate to their liking), but this report paints a picture that this wasn't something that happened one time.

$1,250,000 buys you a trip to the Super Bowl.

Yep. But those are big enough numbers that no other team will want to go down this path. New England still had to win the games.

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

How much do you think Brady will need to pay the "deflators" once they get fired to not spill everything shady about all of this?

At least 1 million each.

 

[The General]

It's always the cover up!

 

[BroadwayG]

Man, I can't wait till these ball boys give an exclusive interview to someone spilling their guts! "Yeah Tom knew what was going on, and he would pay us in signed jerseys, shoes, and other things!" BOOM!

They already said that.

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

Man, I can't wait till these ball boys give an exclusive interview to someone spilling their guts! "Yeah Tom knew what was going on, and he would pay us in signed jerseys, shoes, and other things!" BOOM!

They already said that.

No, I mean like a 60 minutes interview.

 

[Mr. Peterson]

I love how the Patriot fans are acting with this news. It's hilarious.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Kind of surprised to learn that New England was cheating all along. I don't think any of us saw that one coming.

 

[David Dodds]

To be fair - When I go to the bathroom, I usually bring 12 footballs with me.

Doesn’t everybody?

 

[BroadwayG]

Man, I can't wait till these ball boys give an exclusive interview to someone spilling their guts! "Yeah Tom knew what was going on, and he would pay us in signed jerseys, shoes, and other things!" BOOM!

They already said that.

No, I mean like a 60 minutes interview.

As opposed to 4 months of interviews?

 

[mbuehner]

For what its worth, according the the NFL Game Operations Manual:

"If any individual alters the footballs, or if a non-approved ball is used in the game, the person responsible and, if appropriate, the head coach or other club personnel will be subject to discipline, including but not limited to, a fine of $25,000."

So thats the baseline, or at least the minimum, for intentionally altering a football. Mind you, you get 22K fine for hitting a defenseless player (first offense). If we're just looking at the rules... and just looking at the act itself (crucially), you would expect some fines that most of us would consider a joke.

I think its pretty clear that the coverup and the indications that this was an extended and fairly intricate operation will play into the penalty. Will it go from a 25K fine for the act itself to huge suspensions, lost draft picks, millions of dollars? That seems unlikely to me. Im going to go with something similar to the video-gate penalties, probably amped up a bit.

 

[Run It Up]

Gonna be a real awkward 2015 season, with all the butthurt narrative pushing - fueling some sort of ridiculous 2007esque performance.

 

[Tango]

@FOXSports1: "This investigation proves absolutely nothing." -- Ronde Barber on the Wells Report

(via @AmericasPregame) http://t.co/71WPZSnIRP

Oh wait...

@AmericasPregame: "There is no way he did not know this was going on. He probably orchestrated it." -- Ronde Barber on Tom Brady http://t.co/TkUYknpx60