Patriots being investigated after Colts game (2 Viewers)

[The General]

Gonna be a real awkward 2015 season, with all the butthurt narrative pushing - fueling some sort of ridiculous 2007esque performance.

They'll overinflated the balls this time.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Tom ''THE THUG '' Brady

 

[Koya]

It's probably a stupid rule (why not allow each team to inflate to their liking)

This isn't discussed enough. All QBs have a preference, the league clearly doesn't care unless they are under-inflated and/or the Patriots.

Little to no competitive advantage to begin, just let them use their preference.

If anything good comes of this (besides the ring, lmfao) it will be a rule change.

Whether or not the rule is stupid is not the question. I suppose neither is whether or not the Pats cheated (again).

The Pats did cheat (again). I mean, you have to figure that when some of the brightest minds in a sport get caught cheating, getting caught is the exception, not the rule.

When you have been caught as often as the Pats, how can any objective person have any respect for their accomplishments? They are, at the same time, Champions and Losers.

And if someone is foolish enough to think this is Anti-Pats and jealousy, let me remind you that I couldn't stand the 49ers when they were great, hate the Steelers through all their success - and yet, I have respect for both the organizations at the time, and their accomplishments.

Neither is true of the Pats. You are not loathed, you are pitied - because it must suck to win, but know at root its all hollow and all subject to some amount of cheating to have gotten there.

 

[Run It Up]

It's probably a stupid rule (why not allow each team to inflate to their liking)

This isn't discussed enough. All QBs have a preference, the league clearly doesn't care unless they are under-inflated and/or the Patriots.

Little to no competitive advantage to begin, just let them use their preference.

If anything good comes of this (besides the ring, lmfao) it will be a rule change.

Whether or not the rule is stupid is not the question. I suppose neither is whether or not the Pats cheated (again).

The Pats did cheat (again). I mean, you have to figure that when some of the brightest minds in a sport get caught cheating, getting caught is the exception, not the rule.

When you have been caught as often as the Pats, how can any objective person have any respect for their accomplishments? They are, at the same time, Champions and Losers.

And if someone is foolish enough to think this is Anti-Pats and jealousy, let me remind you that I couldn't stand the 49ers when they were great, hate the Steelers through all their success - and yet, I have respect for both the organizations at the time, and their accomplishments.

Neither is true of the Pats. You are not loathed, you are pitied - because it must suck to win, but know at root its all hollow and all subject to some amount of cheating to have gotten there.

As often? You mean twice at the most? Thats gotta be below the average compared to the rest of the league right?

Also, 29 of the 49 superbowls belong to the same few teams. All have been caught cheating. This doesn't change how their fan bases feel about their teams

 

[IvanKaramazov]

@ "twice at the most." Awesome on multiple levels.

 

[Bossman]

My best guess at the punishment:

3-4 games for Tom

$1M fine to the Patriots

$250K fine to Tom

I don't see draft choices, but that's also possible. A harsh penalty, but not one that the Patriots organization will fight. It's probably a stupid rule (why not allow each team to inflate to their liking), but this report paints a picture that this wasn't something that happened one time.

$1,250,000 buys you a trip to the Super Bowl.

Yes ... if only the Browns had deflated balls instead of texting they would be the champs!

Everyone knows that you can't lose if your football is 1 psi low.

 

[cstu]

Run It Up - you're embarrassing yourself here.

 

[Bucky86]

My best guess at the punishment:

3-4 games for Tom

$1M fine to the Patriots

$250K fine to Tom

I don't see draft choices, but that's also possible. A harsh penalty, but not one that the Patriots organization will fight. It's probably a stupid rule (why not allow each team to inflate to their liking), but this report paints a picture that this wasn't something that happened one time.

$1,250,000 buys you a trip to the Super Bowl.

Yes ... if only the Browns had deflated balls instead of texting they would be the champs!

Everyone knows that you can't lose if your football is 1 psi low.

 

[Run It Up]

Run It Up - you're embarrassing yourself here.

Scoreboard.

4 Rings*

If you'd like, I could leave the thread and you guys can resume your butthurt echo chamber.

 

[Bucky86]

I wonder what else they're doing to cheat that they haven't been caught for yet

In the grand scheme of things, it's all been worth it for them though. They get rings, money, fame, and when it turns out they've been cheating the whole time, they get a slap on the wrist and none of their fans care. No big deal, right?

Very true. Just look at their fans around here. They'll go to the grave defending their team no matter how bad it gets.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

As a Pats fan I don't care that they cheated, I do care that they probably, more likely than not got caught.

 

[Koya]

It's probably a stupid rule (why not allow each team to inflate to their liking)

This isn't discussed enough. All QBs have a preference, the league clearly doesn't care unless they are under-inflated and/or the Patriots.

Little to no competitive advantage to begin, just let them use their preference.

If anything good comes of this (besides the ring, lmfao) it will be a rule change.

Whether or not the rule is stupid is not the question. I suppose neither is whether or not the Pats cheated (again).

The Pats did cheat (again). I mean, you have to figure that when some of the brightest minds in a sport get caught cheating, getting caught is the exception, not the rule.

When you have been caught as often as the Pats, how can any objective person have any respect for their accomplishments? They are, at the same time, Champions and Losers.

And if someone is foolish enough to think this is Anti-Pats and jealousy, let me remind you that I couldn't stand the 49ers when they were great, hate the Steelers through all their success - and yet, I have respect for both the organizations at the time, and their accomplishments.

Neither is true of the Pats. You are not loathed, you are pitied - because it must suck to win, but know at root its all hollow and all subject to some amount of cheating to have gotten there.

As often? You mean twice at the most? Thats gotta be below the average compared to the rest of the league right?

Also, 29 of the 49 superbowls belong to the same few teams. All have been caught cheating. This doesn't change how their fan bases feel about their teams

Huh? Please name what Super Bowl winners have been as tainted as the Pats.

You are a Pats fan, you are biased. And if it were my Giants, I'd probably fight for their honor as well - even if it was so utterly undeserving.

I am not a Pats fan. Not a Jets fan, nor a Pats hater. I used to be envious of their success, sure. But they had my respect. Since we beat you twice in the SB, the envy is gone.

Since you have been caught cheating so repeatedly, so is the respect. Just understand that most of the world recognizes that the Pats are cheaters and all of their accomplishments are at least somewhat tainted. That's reality.

 

[espnespn]

What's going to be interesting is the first interviews of

the ball guys now that it looks like they are going to take

the fall here. Do they just go all crazy and burn the whole

house down and spill more details?

The thing that hurts Brady is the commish can't risk someone

playing the race card here if he is planning on going easy

on Brady.

Peterson and Rice's actions took place off the field and they

got basically a year. Brady's actions took place on the field and

"Could" have impacted the actual game. I think he gets 4-6 games.

Sorry typing this on a phone.

In the Peterson and Rice situations, Peterson and Rice were guilty of something.

Brady isn't guilty of anything, he is loosely connected to two individuals who might have done something but after a 100 day investigation they aren't certain anything even happened.

This entire thing has multiple points where it hinges on completely nothing but someones word. The balls were at 12.5 before the game, because the official responsible for making sure they were, said they were - the Wells investigation accepts this as fact, ignoring that they weren't recorded, DESPITE the complaint pregame and the briefing telling him to make sure.

no, they are certain something happened. We know the balls were under-inflated beyond what could be expected from atmospheric conditions. We know the locker room attendants were sensitive to air pressure in the balls, at the direction of Brady. We know the balls were out of control from the officials pre-game, specifically the balls were in possession of the attendant for 1:40 pre-game. We know it is possible to deflate 12 balls within 1:40.

The only thing missing is a signed confession or video evidence of the crime.

This is impossible to know, unless you know the starting PSI. Which the report clearly says that they assume is 12.5 PSI.

There was a CNNSI video of refs checking ball pressure for another game, and they sure didn't look very diligent in checking PSI. I believe one of the refs in the video checking PSI says something like: "eh...close enough".

no. read page 52:

When tested, all of the Patriots footballs—both game balls and back-up balls—registered on the lower-end of the permissible inflation range. Anderson recalls that most of the

Patriots footballs measured 12.5 psi, though there may have been one or two that measured 12.6

psi. No air was added to or released from these balls because they were within the permissible

range. According to Anderson, two of the game balls provided by the Patriots measured below

the 12.5 psi threshold. Yette used the air pump provided by the Patriots to inflate those footballs,

explaining that he “purposefully overshot” the range (because it is hard to be precise when

adding air), and then gave the footballs back to Anderson, who used the air release valve on his

gauge to reduce the pressure down to 12.5 psi.

...

NFL game officials are not required to, and do not as a matter of standard

practice, record in writing the pressure measurements taken during their pre-game inspections of

game balls. We credit Anderson‟s recollection of the pre-game measurements taken on the day

of the AFC Championship Game based on both the level of confidence Anderson expressed in

his recollection and the consistency of his recollection with information provided by each of the

Patriots and Colts regarding their target inflation levels.

Look at this video. This is how refs check the PSI while on camera:

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/22/deflategate-video-how-nfl-officials-check-game-ball-pressure/

At about 20 seconds in, the ref says: "That's close enough."

At about 40 seconds in, the ref lets out a ton of air while testing and says "Whoa!"

Video proof that refs don't do a very careful job measuring PSI.

 

[Deamon]

Wow, surprised by all the news of this. I am not a Patriots fan nor hater, but honestly thought this whole thing was overblown and they did nothing wrong. Reading that report has changed my view though.

It will still get overblown though. I don't think you need to put an (*) beside any title. They still won those games, may have won those games by even more with normal inflation, and still deserve the titles. Clearly in the super bowl the balls were fine and they still beat the 2nd best team in the NFL fair and square.

Regardless though, this is probably deserving of some punishment. Surprised Tom did this, but seems pretty clear he did it. Hopefully a fine and suspension for him, but it doesn't really change him being arguably the best QB of all time. He'd still be top 5 even with fully inflated balls.

 

[The General]

Oh man. Do not have time to read because of work. Will later for sure. Can't tell if the little I read is schtick or not but if it was what a ####### liar Brady is.

who cares seriously. I'm shutting off twitter for a week if this boring story gets any traction. Seriously can't imagine a more worthless way to spend a week. They spent four months analyzing this, and all they say is "he probably knew about it". Great job NFL.

Thus why Roger Goodell gets booed everytime he steps in front of a podium.

Brady can't straight up lie about stuff. Regardless if it's a dumb rule or whatever.

 

[Khy]

I wonder what else they're doing to cheat that they haven't been caught for yet

In the grand scheme of things, it's all been worth it for them though. They get rings, money, fame, and when it turns out they've been cheating the whole time, they get a slap on the wrist and none of their fans care. No big deal, right?

Very true. Just look at their fans around here. They'll go to the grave defending their team no matter how bad it gets.

This is my issue as well... in any other sport there would be enough evidence here to debate stripping of records and titles.

Baseball did it with Pete Rose.

Cycling with Lance Armstrong.

It's happened before, this level of cheating to me is worse than PEDs. Because of how much they went through to try and cover it up. And I agree, they've been caught now what 3 times cheating blatantly? How many times have they NOT been caught? What other stuff have the Patriots done under Bill Belichick that has allowed them to reach the status they're at right now. I'm waiting for a few years down the line to find out about a whole bunch of this when some poor ex-Pat needs the money and speaks out to get the spotlight on him to collect a few bucks.

 

[Koya]

As a Pats fan I don't care that they cheated, I do care that they probably, more likely than not got caught.

Really? (honest question, neither fishing nor prodding).

If my team did / does cheat, I'll be honest that I hope they don't get caught. However I'd be more upset that they cheated (and needed to cheat or felt that they needed to) in the first place.

Maybe that's just me - or because the situation is not affecting me directly?

 

[ShamrockPride]

The punishment here should be given to Brady in two choices.

A - Suspended 1st three games of season

B - Play opener then suspended the next 4 games

Of course we all know he will only be fined.

 

[Disc Shark]

How can anyone honestly read the report and those text messages and still believe that there was no deliberate tampering of the footballs? Blind homerism is still strong in this thread.

How can anyone read the report, and not understand what "probable" means? "Probable" mean "likely", but doesn't prove it.

Right, they "probably" knew. Agree. All signs point to it. The evidence is there. Then there is the lying about it where they literally laughed in the face of the fans/press, etc.

That's "probably" enough for discipline for the team and Brady. If they apply the "ignorance is not an excuse" standard, Belichick could be looking at discipline too.

Before people scream at me for trying to get the Patriots out of jail on this one, I would guess the league will suspend Brady 2-3 games if only because they will look like they are playing favorites if they don't. However, I think they will time things and frame things in such a manner that Brady will appeal and not miss time in any important games. So he'll appeal and get his suspension reduced to a single game and (the horror!) he'll miss a home game against JAC, WAS, or TEN.

But as far as the "ignorance is not an excuse" standard, why wouldn't coaches get suspended if players are caught doing PEDs, especially teams with multiple players suspended. That would violate the rules, and under this clause coaches should need to be accountable and own up to everything that goes on.

For precedent regarding "ignorance is no excuse" see: Payton, Sean

 

[Anarchy99]

I wonder what else they're doing to cheat that they haven't been caught for yet

In the grand scheme of things, it's all been worth it for them though. They get rings, money, fame, and when it turns out they've been cheating the whole time, they get a slap on the wrist and none of their fans care. No big deal, right?

Very true. Just look at their fans around here. They'll go to the grave defending their team no matter how bad it gets.

This is my issue as well... in any other sport there would be enough evidence here to debate stripping of records and titles.

Baseball did it with Pete Rose.

Cycling with Lance Armstrong.

It's happened before, this level of cheating to me is worse than PEDs. Because of how much they went through to try and cover it up. And I agree, they've been caught now what 3 times cheating blatantly? How many times have they NOT been caught? What other stuff have the Patriots done under Bill Belichick that has allowed them to reach the status they're at right now. I'm waiting for a few years down the line to find out about a whole bunch of this when some poor ex-Pat needs the money and speaks out to get the spotlight on him to collect a few bucks.

Spygate, Deflategate, and . . . What do you consider the third one?

 

[espnespn]

How can anyone honestly read the report and those text messages and still believe that there was no deliberate tampering of the footballs? Blind homerism is still strong in this thread.

Some people won't believe it unless their Idol admits it or there is actual video evidence. Crazy

Wells report official conclusion: The Patriots "probably" deflated

Salty Hater official conclusion: Patriots did it for sure

Some people just don't understand the plain english definition of "probably". Crazy.

 

[JIslander]

It's probably a stupid rule (why not allow each team to inflate to their liking)

This isn't discussed enough. All QBs have a preference, the league clearly doesn't care unless they are under-inflated and/or the Patriots.

Little to no competitive advantage to begin, just let them use their preference.

If anything good comes of this (besides the ring, lmfao) it will be a rule change.

Well there was that freakish outlier from statistical analysis about the Pats fumbling tendencies...

 

[The General]

Run It Up - you're embarrassing yourself here.

Scoreboard.4 Rings*

If you'd like, I could leave the thread and you guys can resume your butthurt echo chamber.

The 4 rings is a pretty sad comeback.

It's not butthurt to want a guy to get called out for lying. Brady was acting pretty cocky during the press conference about all this and straight up full of #### if I'm reading all this stuff right. I would think less of a guy on the team I root for in the same situation.

I honestly wouldn't care if my team was doing this and think the whole ball pressure thing is dumb but they got caught and got to own up to it at some point.

 

[Khy]

Oh man. Do not have time to read because of work. Will later for sure. Can't tell if the little I read is schtick or not but if it was what a ####### liar Brady is.

who cares seriously. I'm shutting off twitter for a week if this boring story gets any traction. Seriously can't imagine a more worthless way to spend a week. They spent four months analyzing this, and all they say is "he probably knew about it". Great job NFL.

Thus why Roger Goodell gets booed everytime he steps in front of a podium.

Brady can't straight up lie about stuff. Regardless if it's a dumb rule or whatever.

This is the whole reason people SHOULD CARE! Just like Lance Armstrong likely would've won all of his titles without PEDs. The fact is, he was still an ####### and still used them. That deserves proper punishment. As for the "he probably knew about it" no, that's the wrong way of understanding. What you're looking for is a legal term called "preponderance of the evidence" that comes into civil cases when enough evidence is present to say that more than likely the situation occurred. Unlike with criminal cases where you need "beyond a reasonable doubt" to convict. In a civil case, similar to this one, you only need to prove that it is "more probable than not" that the situation occurred.

What they're saying with "more probable than not" isn't "eh, he probably knew about it". It's more "Based on the evidence we have at our disposal, we felt there are far to many coincidences in place and too many lies discovered to say he was unaware. And it's in our best estimation based on this evidence that Tom Brady had knowledge and likely put this plan in place. But we can't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt".

Essentially saying, based on the evidence... 85% he knew and orchestrated the plan, 15% he had no idea.

 

[Run It Up]

It's probably a stupid rule (why not allow each team to inflate to their liking)

This isn't discussed enough. All QBs have a preference, the league clearly doesn't care unless they are under-inflated and/or the Patriots.

Little to no competitive advantage to begin, just let them use their preference.

If anything good comes of this (besides the ring, lmfao) it will be a rule change.

Whether or not the rule is stupid is not the question. I suppose neither is whether or not the Pats cheated (again).

The Pats did cheat (again). I mean, you have to figure that when some of the brightest minds in a sport get caught cheating, getting caught is the exception, not the rule.

When you have been caught as often as the Pats, how can any objective person have any respect for their accomplishments? They are, at the same time, Champions and Losers.

And if someone is foolish enough to think this is Anti-Pats and jealousy, let me remind you that I couldn't stand the 49ers when they were great, hate the Steelers through all their success - and yet, I have respect for both the organizations at the time, and their accomplishments.

Neither is true of the Pats. You are not loathed, you are pitied - because it must suck to win, but know at root its all hollow and all subject to some amount of cheating to have gotten there.

As often? You mean twice at the most? Thats gotta be below the average compared to the rest of the league right?

Also, 29 of the 49 superbowls belong to the same few teams. All have been caught cheating. This doesn't change how their fan bases feel about their teams

Huh? Please name what Super Bowl winners have been as tainted as the Pats.

You are a Pats fan, you are biased. And if it were my Giants, I'd probably fight for their honor as well - even if it was so utterly undeserving.

I am not a Pats fan. Not a Jets fan, nor a Pats hater. I used to be envious of their success, sure. But they had my respect. Since we beat you twice in the SB, the envy is gone.

Since you have been caught cheating so repeatedly, so is the respect. Just understand that most of the world recognizes that the Pats are cheaters and all of their accomplishments are at least somewhat tainted. That's reality.

Okay, well I guess this is as good of a time as any. The Pats don't need your respect, they are objectively the best team of the past 15 years. Bill Belichick is the best coach in the history of the game. Tom Brady is the best QB in the history of the game.

You're entitled to feel however you want about it. You can label it however you want. It changes nothing. Which is what upsets people the most.

 

[Khy]

How can anyone honestly read the report and those text messages and still believe that there was no deliberate tampering of the footballs? Blind homerism is still strong in this thread.

Some people won't believe it unless their Idol admits it or there is actual video evidence. Crazy

Wells report official conclusion: The Patriots "probably" deflated

Salty Hater official conclusion: Patriots did it for sure

Some people just don't understand the plain english definition of "probably". Crazy.

No, you're wrong. You are actually the one who doesn't understand the definition of "more probable than not". See my post above if you feel like not being ignorant. Otherwise, ignore it and continue to make yourself completely uninformed and arrogant.

 

[Khy]

It's probably a stupid rule (why not allow each team to inflate to their liking)

This isn't discussed enough. All QBs have a preference, the league clearly doesn't care unless they are under-inflated and/or the Patriots.

Little to no competitive advantage to begin, just let them use their preference.

If anything good comes of this (besides the ring, lmfao) it will be a rule change.

Whether or not the rule is stupid is not the question. I suppose neither is whether or not the Pats cheated (again).

The Pats did cheat (again). I mean, you have to figure that when some of the brightest minds in a sport get caught cheating, getting caught is the exception, not the rule.

When you have been caught as often as the Pats, how can any objective person have any respect for their accomplishments? They are, at the same time, Champions and Losers.

And if someone is foolish enough to think this is Anti-Pats and jealousy, let me remind you that I couldn't stand the 49ers when they were great, hate the Steelers through all their success - and yet, I have respect for both the organizations at the time, and their accomplishments.

Neither is true of the Pats. You are not loathed, you are pitied - because it must suck to win, but know at root its all hollow and all subject to some amount of cheating to have gotten there.

As often? You mean twice at the most? Thats gotta be below the average compared to the rest of the league right?

Also, 29 of the 49 superbowls belong to the same few teams. All have been caught cheating. This doesn't change how their fan bases feel about their teams

Huh? Please name what Super Bowl winners have been as tainted as the Pats.

You are a Pats fan, you are biased. And if it were my Giants, I'd probably fight for their honor as well - even if it was so utterly undeserving.

I am not a Pats fan. Not a Jets fan, nor a Pats hater. I used to be envious of their success, sure. But they had my respect. Since we beat you twice in the SB, the envy is gone.

Since you have been caught cheating so repeatedly, so is the respect. Just understand that most of the world recognizes that the Pats are cheaters and all of their accomplishments are at least somewhat tainted. That's reality.

Okay, well I guess this is as good of a time as any. The Pats don't need your respect, they are objectively the best team of the past 15 years. Bill Belichick is the best coach in the history of the game. Tom Brady is the best QB in the history of the game.

You're entitled to feel however you want about it. You can label it however you want. It changes nothing.

Lance Armstrong was the best too, until it was discovered he cheated his whole career and he was stripped of all of his titles and records

 

[massraider]

If all that was true, they wouldn't have cheated.

Bill Walsh, by the way.

 

[Run It Up]

It's probably a stupid rule (why not allow each team to inflate to their liking)

This isn't discussed enough. All QBs have a preference, the league clearly doesn't care unless they are under-inflated and/or the Patriots.

Little to no competitive advantage to begin, just let them use their preference.

If anything good comes of this (besides the ring, lmfao) it will be a rule change.

Whether or not the rule is stupid is not the question. I suppose neither is whether or not the Pats cheated (again).

The Pats did cheat (again). I mean, you have to figure that when some of the brightest minds in a sport get caught cheating, getting caught is the exception, not the rule.

When you have been caught as often as the Pats, how can any objective person have any respect for their accomplishments? They are, at the same time, Champions and Losers.

And if someone is foolish enough to think this is Anti-Pats and jealousy, let me remind you that I couldn't stand the 49ers when they were great, hate the Steelers through all their success - and yet, I have respect for both the organizations at the time, and their accomplishments.

Neither is true of the Pats. You are not loathed, you are pitied - because it must suck to win, but know at root its all hollow and all subject to some amount of cheating to have gotten there.

As often? You mean twice at the most? Thats gotta be below the average compared to the rest of the league right?

Also, 29 of the 49 superbowls belong to the same few teams. All have been caught cheating. This doesn't change how their fan bases feel about their teams

Huh? Please name what Super Bowl winners have been as tainted as the Pats.

You are a Pats fan, you are biased. And if it were my Giants, I'd probably fight for their honor as well - even if it was so utterly undeserving.

I am not a Pats fan. Not a Jets fan, nor a Pats hater. I used to be envious of their success, sure. But they had my respect. Since we beat you twice in the SB, the envy is gone.

Since you have been caught cheating so repeatedly, so is the respect. Just understand that most of the world recognizes that the Pats are cheaters and all of their accomplishments are at least somewhat tainted. That's reality.

Okay, well I guess this is as good of a time as any. The Pats don't need your respect, they are objectively the best team of the past 15 years. Bill Belichick is the best coach in the history of the game. Tom Brady is the best QB in the history of the game.

You're entitled to feel however you want about it. You can label it however you want. It changes nothing.

Lance Armstrong was the best too, until it was discovered he cheated his whole career and he was stripped of all of his titles and records

We could talk about how PEDs are an actual epidemic in the game. But it has nothing to do with the Patriots so nothing would come of it.

 

[Disc Shark]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 2m2 minutes ago
Wells Report: Officials couldn't find game balls 15 minutes before AFC title game, a first for Walt Anderson

But they were only unaccounted for for a minute forty... lmfao.

15 minutes is an estimate, they said they didn't know when the balls went missing, they just know when he noticed they were missing. The officials were completely irresponsible before the AFCCG.

They were even briefed hours before the game to make sure to keep an eye on the pressure.

Are you on the Pats' payroll? Should be. I bet their lawyers are getting paid upwards of $500/hr for the kind of work you're doing here.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

It's probably a stupid rule (why not allow each team to inflate to their liking)

This isn't discussed enough. All QBs have a preference, the league clearly doesn't care unless they are under-inflated and/or the Patriots.

Little to no competitive advantage to begin, just let them use their preference.

If anything good comes of this (besides the ring, lmfao) it will be a rule change.

Whether or not the rule is stupid is not the question. I suppose neither is whether or not the Pats cheated (again).

The Pats did cheat (again). I mean, you have to figure that when some of the brightest minds in a sport get caught cheating, getting caught is the exception, not the rule.

When you have been caught as often as the Pats, how can any objective person have any respect for their accomplishments? They are, at the same time, Champions and Losers.

And if someone is foolish enough to think this is Anti-Pats and jealousy, let me remind you that I couldn't stand the 49ers when they were great, hate the Steelers through all their success - and yet, I have respect for both the organizations at the time, and their accomplishments.

Neither is true of the Pats. You are not loathed, you are pitied - because it must suck to win, but know at root its all hollow and all subject to some amount of cheating to have gotten there.

As often? You mean twice at the most? Thats gotta be below the average compared to the rest of the league right?Also, 29 of the 49 superbowls belong to the same few teams. All have been caught cheating. This doesn't change how their fan bases feel about their teams

Huh? Please name what Super Bowl winners have been as tainted as the Pats.

You are a Pats fan, you are biased. And if it were my Giants, I'd probably fight for their honor as well - even if it was so utterly undeserving.

I am not a Pats fan. Not a Jets fan, nor a Pats hater. I used to be envious of their success, sure. But they had my respect. Since we beat you twice in the SB, the envy is gone.

Since you have been caught cheating so repeatedly, so is the respect. Just understand that most of the world recognizes that the Pats are cheaters and all of their accomplishments are at least somewhat tainted. That's reality.

Okay, well I guess this is as good of a time as any. The Pats don't need your respect, they are objectively the best team of the past 15 years. Bill Belichick is the best coach in the history of the game. Tom Brady is the best QB in the history of the game.You're entitled to feel however you want about it. You can label it however you want. It changes nothing. Which is what upsets people the most.

They're objectively cheaters. That's why all the stuff you mentioned is funny under the circumstances.

 

[The General]

It's probably a stupid rule (why not allow each team to inflate to their liking)

This isn't discussed enough. All QBs have a preference, the league clearly doesn't care unless they are under-inflated and/or the Patriots.

Little to no competitive advantage to begin, just let them use their preference.

If anything good comes of this (besides the ring, lmfao) it will be a rule change.

Whether or not the rule is stupid is not the question. I suppose neither is whether or not the Pats cheated (again).

The Pats did cheat (again). I mean, you have to figure that when some of the brightest minds in a sport get caught cheating, getting caught is the exception, not the rule.

When you have been caught as often as the Pats, how can any objective person have any respect for their accomplishments? They are, at the same time, Champions and Losers.

And if someone is foolish enough to think this is Anti-Pats and jealousy, let me remind you that I couldn't stand the 49ers when they were great, hate the Steelers through all their success - and yet, I have respect for both the organizations at the time, and their accomplishments.

Neither is true of the Pats. You are not loathed, you are pitied - because it must suck to win, but know at root its all hollow and all subject to some amount of cheating to have gotten there.

As often? You mean twice at the most? Thats gotta be below the average compared to the rest of the league right?Also, 29 of the 49 superbowls belong to the same few teams. All have been caught cheating. This doesn't change how their fan bases feel about their teams

Huh? Please name what Super Bowl winners have been as tainted as the Pats.

You are a Pats fan, you are biased. And if it were my Giants, I'd probably fight for their honor as well - even if it was so utterly undeserving.

I am not a Pats fan. Not a Jets fan, nor a Pats hater. I used to be envious of their success, sure. But they had my respect. Since we beat you twice in the SB, the envy is gone.

Since you have been caught cheating so repeatedly, so is the respect. Just understand that most of the world recognizes that the Pats are cheaters and all of their accomplishments are at least somewhat tainted. That's reality.

Okay, well I guess this is as good of a time as any. The Pats don't need your respect, they are objectively the best team of the past 15 years. Bill Belichick is the best coach in the history of the game. Tom Brady is the best QB in the history of the game.You're entitled to feel however you want about it. You can label it however you want. It changes nothing.

Agree that every fan would trade their last 15 years for the Pats including all the stuff that come with that.What this changes is the perception of Brady. If he straight up lied guy is going to lose respect of a lot of people.

People already hated the guy out of jealousy now they actually have something on him if this is true.

 

[Khy]

It's probably a stupid rule (why not allow each team to inflate to their liking)

This isn't discussed enough. All QBs have a preference, the league clearly doesn't care unless they are under-inflated and/or the Patriots.

Little to no competitive advantage to begin, just let them use their preference.

If anything good comes of this (besides the ring, lmfao) it will be a rule change.

Whether or not the rule is stupid is not the question. I suppose neither is whether or not the Pats cheated (again).

The Pats did cheat (again). I mean, you have to figure that when some of the brightest minds in a sport get caught cheating, getting caught is the exception, not the rule.

When you have been caught as often as the Pats, how can any objective person have any respect for their accomplishments? They are, at the same time, Champions and Losers.

And if someone is foolish enough to think this is Anti-Pats and jealousy, let me remind you that I couldn't stand the 49ers when they were great, hate the Steelers through all their success - and yet, I have respect for both the organizations at the time, and their accomplishments.

Neither is true of the Pats. You are not loathed, you are pitied - because it must suck to win, but know at root its all hollow and all subject to some amount of cheating to have gotten there.

As often? You mean twice at the most? Thats gotta be below the average compared to the rest of the league right?

Also, 29 of the 49 superbowls belong to the same few teams. All have been caught cheating. This doesn't change how their fan bases feel about their teams

Huh? Please name what Super Bowl winners have been as tainted as the Pats.

You are a Pats fan, you are biased. And if it were my Giants, I'd probably fight for their honor as well - even if it was so utterly undeserving.

I am not a Pats fan. Not a Jets fan, nor a Pats hater. I used to be envious of their success, sure. But they had my respect. Since we beat you twice in the SB, the envy is gone.

Since you have been caught cheating so repeatedly, so is the respect. Just understand that most of the world recognizes that the Pats are cheaters and all of their accomplishments are at least somewhat tainted. That's reality.

Okay, well I guess this is as good of a time as any. The Pats don't need your respect, they are objectively the best team of the past 15 years. Bill Belichick is the best coach in the history of the game. Tom Brady is the best QB in the history of the game.

You're entitled to feel however you want about it. You can label it however you want. It changes nothing.

Lance Armstrong was the best too, until it was discovered he cheated his whole career and he was stripped of all of his titles and records

We could talk about how PEDs are an actual epidemic in the game. But it has nothing to do with the Patriots so nothing would come of it.

There is no more proof that PEDs are an epidemic than blatantly cheating to win. You act like this is the first time the Patriots sportsmanship has come into question. I'm sorry but PEDs help the guy taking them, not the whole team. Deflating the ball helps the whole team, video taping opposing teams practices helps the whole team. They cheated, blatantly I could make a pretty compelling argument that what they did is more detrimental to the game than PEDs.

 

[massraider]

"But what about these other teams?" Is the worst defense ever.

This is about one team cheating. Again.

Bringing up PEDs is embarrassing.

 

[johnnycakes]

Tom Brady... Every bit as smooth as Bubba Clinton's "I did not boff that woman, Ms Lewinsky." that SNL skit nailed it

 

[Run It Up]

It's probably a stupid rule (why not allow each team to inflate to their liking)

This isn't discussed enough. All QBs have a preference, the league clearly doesn't care unless they are under-inflated and/or the Patriots.

Little to no competitive advantage to begin, just let them use their preference.

If anything good comes of this (besides the ring, lmfao) it will be a rule change.

Whether or not the rule is stupid is not the question. I suppose neither is whether or not the Pats cheated (again).

The Pats did cheat (again). I mean, you have to figure that when some of the brightest minds in a sport get caught cheating, getting caught is the exception, not the rule.

When you have been caught as often as the Pats, how can any objective person have any respect for their accomplishments? They are, at the same time, Champions and Losers.

And if someone is foolish enough to think this is Anti-Pats and jealousy, let me remind you that I couldn't stand the 49ers when they were great, hate the Steelers through all their success - and yet, I have respect for both the organizations at the time, and their accomplishments.

Neither is true of the Pats. You are not loathed, you are pitied - because it must suck to win, but know at root its all hollow and all subject to some amount of cheating to have gotten there.

As often? You mean twice at the most? Thats gotta be below the average compared to the rest of the league right?Also, 29 of the 49 superbowls belong to the same few teams. All have been caught cheating. This doesn't change how their fan bases feel about their teams

Huh? Please name what Super Bowl winners have been as tainted as the Pats.

You are a Pats fan, you are biased. And if it were my Giants, I'd probably fight for their honor as well - even if it was so utterly undeserving.

I am not a Pats fan. Not a Jets fan, nor a Pats hater. I used to be envious of their success, sure. But they had my respect. Since we beat you twice in the SB, the envy is gone.

Since you have been caught cheating so repeatedly, so is the respect. Just understand that most of the world recognizes that the Pats are cheaters and all of their accomplishments are at least somewhat tainted. That's reality.

Okay, well I guess this is as good of a time as any. The Pats don't need your respect, they are objectively the best team of the past 15 years. Bill Belichick is the best coach in the history of the game. Tom Brady is the best QB in the history of the game.You're entitled to feel however you want about it. You can label it however you want. It changes nothing.

Agree that every fan would trade their last 15 years for the Pats including all the stuff that come with that.What this changes is the perception of Brady. If he straight up lied guy is going to lose respect of a lot of people.

People already hated the guy out of jealousy now they actually have something on him if this is true.

Thats the only reason I'm still here soldiering on. I don't see the link. I'm not saying he absolutely wasn't involved. But I do believe that 100% of the responsibility was on the leagues shoulders and MULTIPLE times fell short - and that is just about what they failed to do at the AFCCG.

We're not hearing about any of that. We're talking about specifically how this affects Tom Brady's reputation and the past 15 years of the NE Patriots as an organization. Not the failures of the people who were actually responsible for this ####.

The Wells report pretty much outlines how they failed at almost every turn. Its possible this is just a series of ####### coincidences but we would never know, because at the multiple branching pathways where the officials were supposed to do their jobs, they ####### didn't.

 

[GoBirds]

Bob Kraft has to be pissed that he put his neck out there for Tom and now sees this. Bad look for sure.

 

[Disc Shark]

How can anyone honestly read the report and those text messages and still believe that there was no deliberate tampering of the footballs? Blind homerism is still strong in this thread.

Some people won't believe it unless their Idol admits it or there is actual video evidence. Crazy

Wells report official conclusion: The Patriots "probably" deflated

Salty Hater official conclusion: Patriots did it for sure

Some people just don't understand the plain english definition of "probably". Crazy.

'More probable than not" is sufficient for multi-billion dollar awards in civil court cases.

 

[Rimez]

pretty obvious by the text messages and payouts that brady was in on the ball tampering, you dont just give a random ball boy your autographed 50,000 yard game ball for nothing, however most quarterbacks alter the game balls and have done so for decades so you cant really hate on brady for doing it. i could care less if he prefers throwing a tube sock while aaron rodgers likes over inflated volley balls, they still have to make the throws. the nfl will prob suspend him 2 games as a slap on the wrist but i doubt they take away draft picks, you dont lose draft picks for illegal hits or gold shoes and this is similar considering it was isolated to a player and not on the ownership or its coaches.

 

[Khy]

It's probably a stupid rule (why not allow each team to inflate to their liking)

This isn't discussed enough. All QBs have a preference, the league clearly doesn't care unless they are under-inflated and/or the Patriots.

Little to no competitive advantage to begin, just let them use their preference.

If anything good comes of this (besides the ring, lmfao) it will be a rule change.

Whether or not the rule is stupid is not the question. I suppose neither is whether or not the Pats cheated (again).

The Pats did cheat (again). I mean, you have to figure that when some of the brightest minds in a sport get caught cheating, getting caught is the exception, not the rule.

When you have been caught as often as the Pats, how can any objective person have any respect for their accomplishments? They are, at the same time, Champions and Losers.

And if someone is foolish enough to think this is Anti-Pats and jealousy, let me remind you that I couldn't stand the 49ers when they were great, hate the Steelers through all their success - and yet, I have respect for both the organizations at the time, and their accomplishments.

Neither is true of the Pats. You are not loathed, you are pitied - because it must suck to win, but know at root its all hollow and all subject to some amount of cheating to have gotten there.

As often? You mean twice at the most? Thats gotta be below the average compared to the rest of the league right?Also, 29 of the 49 superbowls belong to the same few teams. All have been caught cheating. This doesn't change how their fan bases feel about their teams

Huh? Please name what Super Bowl winners have been as tainted as the Pats.

You are a Pats fan, you are biased. And if it were my Giants, I'd probably fight for their honor as well - even if it was so utterly undeserving.

I am not a Pats fan. Not a Jets fan, nor a Pats hater. I used to be envious of their success, sure. But they had my respect. Since we beat you twice in the SB, the envy is gone.

Since you have been caught cheating so repeatedly, so is the respect. Just understand that most of the world recognizes that the Pats are cheaters and all of their accomplishments are at least somewhat tainted. That's reality.

Okay, well I guess this is as good of a time as any. The Pats don't need your respect, they are objectively the best team of the past 15 years. Bill Belichick is the best coach in the history of the game. Tom Brady is the best QB in the history of the game.You're entitled to feel however you want about it. You can label it however you want. It changes nothing.

Agree that every fan would trade their last 15 years for the Pats including all the stuff that come with that.What this changes is the perception of Brady. If he straight up lied guy is going to lose respect of a lot of people.

People already hated the guy out of jealousy now they actually have something on him if this is true.

Thats the only reason I'm still here soldiering on. I don't see the link. I'm not saying he absolutely wasn't involved. But I do believe that 100% of the responsibility was on the leagues shoulders and MULTIPLE times fell short - and that is just about what they failed to do at the AFCCG.

We're not hearing about any of that. We're talking about specifically how this affects Tom Brady's reputation and the past 15 years of the NE Patriots as an organization. Not the failures of the people who were actually responsible for this ####.

The Wells report pretty much outlines how they failed at almost every turn. Its possible this is just a series of ####### coincidences but we would never know, because at the multiple branching pathways where the officials were supposed to do their jobs, they ####### didn't.

Right... so it's the leagues fault that Brady made his own objective decision as a 37 year old adult to cheat at a professional sport? Got it, shame on the NFL for forcing his hand at cheating! Those bastards!

 

[BustedKnuckles]

I wonder what else they're doing to cheat that they haven't been caught for yet

In the grand scheme of things, it's all been worth it for them though. They get rings, money, fame, and when it turns out they've been cheating the whole time, they get a slap on the wrist and none of their fans care. No big deal, right?

Very true. Just look at their fans around here. They'll go to the grave defending their team no matter how bad it gets.

This is my issue as well... in any other sport there would be enough evidence here to debate stripping of records and titles.

Baseball did it with Pete Rose.

Cycling with Lance Armstrong.

It's happened before, this level of cheating to me is worse than PEDs. Because of how much they went through to try and cover it up. And I agree, they've been caught now what 3 times cheating blatantly? How many times have they NOT been caught? What other stuff have the Patriots done under Bill Belichick that has allowed them to reach the status they're at right now. I'm waiting for a few years down the line to find out about a whole bunch of this when some poor ex-Pat needs the money and speaks out to get the spotlight on him to collect a few bucks.

Spygate, Deflategate, and . . . What do you consider the third one?

Framegate

 

[The General]

Bob Kraft has to be pissed that he put his neck out there for Tom and now sees this. Bad look for sure.

Sounded like he's keeping the indignant thing going from what I heard.

 

[Willie Neslon]

Personally, I believe Brady will be suspended for more than 3 or 4 games. Anywhere from 10 to a whole season. He doctored the ball to gain a competitive advantage. He's throwing with a different ball than every other qb in the league. The equivalent of corking your bat or pitching with balls that curve more than regular balls in baseball or using a ball that flies farther than every other golfer. I would be shocked if it was less than 6 games.

 

[Run It Up]

Still haven't heard anyone talk about how 3 of the 4 Colts balls tested were under the 12.5 minimum. They felt it was only necessary to test 4 of the 12 - because reasons.

 

[GoBirds]

Lots of people gonna be eatin a lot of crow in here.

Update?

 

[GoBirds]

Bob Kraft has to be pissed that he put his neck out there for Tom and now sees this. Bad look for sure.

Sounded like he's keeping the indignant thing going from what I heard.

Saw that, behind closed doors would be interesting.

 

[Khy]

Personally, I believe Brady will be suspended for more than 3 or 4 games. Anywhere from 10 to a whole season. He doctored the ball to gain a competitive advantage. He's throwing with a different ball than every other qb in the league. The equivalent of corking your bat or pitching with balls that curve more than regular balls in baseball or using a ball that flies farther than every other golfer. I would be shocked if it was less than 6 games.

I agree... mainly because I feel like this shouldn't be seen as his 'first offense' at cheating. As he was obviously aware of spygate as well. This should be treated as his second offense, which should be 10 games at least. If not as you said, the entire season. He was caught red handed cheating in unsportsmanlike fashion which to me, is the worst offense that can be brought up against a professional sports player (outside of rape, murder or other such activities). These acts have caused players in other sports to be suspended entire seasons (Alex Rodriguez) to all the way to being stripped of everything in their careers and banned from the sport they participated in (Lance Armstrong, Pete Rose).

 

[espnespn]

How can anyone honestly read the report and those text messages and still believe that there was no deliberate tampering of the footballs? Blind homerism is still strong in this thread.

Some people won't believe it unless their Idol admits it or there is actual video evidence. Crazy

Wells report official conclusion: The Patriots "probably" deflated

Salty Hater official conclusion: Patriots did it for sure

Some people just don't understand the plain english definition of "probably". Crazy.

'More probable than not" is sufficient for multi-billion dollar awards in civil court cases.

Is this a civil court case? Funny, I don't remember the Patriots having a chance to present their side of the case in court vs. these charges.

 

[Anarchy99]

Still haven't heard anyone talk about how 3 of the 4 Colts balls tested were under the 12.5 minimum. They felt it was only necessary to test 4 of the 12 - because reasons.

I believe I saw that they ran out of time at halftime so they only checked four of the Colts footballs.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Lots of people gonna be eatin a lot of crow in here.

Update?

Well, technically he was right.