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Patriots being investigated after Colts game (4 Viewers)

Percent of NFL teams actively trying to steal play sheets?

  • 0%

    Votes: 90 33.0%
  • 25%

    Votes: 91 33.3%
  • 50%

    Votes: 19 7.0%
  • 75%

    Votes: 16 5.9%
  • 100%

    Votes: 57 20.9%

  • Total voters
    273
actually, this was probably a smaller job.

I'd imagine they got paid the big bucks by big tobacco to show us second hand smoke is harmless.
That's what you guys are going with? I mean, I knew you would attack the source without considering the merits of the report, but I figured you would focus on them having an office in NYC and are therefore salty Jet or Giant fans.
I don't know who these 'you guys' are supposed to be --- I'm one person, and I referenced the los angeles times.

but I guess there are pats fans all over the world, considering how awesome they are.

According to the Los Angeles Times, "Exponent's research has come under fire from critics, including engineers, attorneys and academics who say the company tends to deliver to clients the reports they need to mount a public defense."

In 2009, the Amazon Defense Coalition criticized an Exponent study commissioned by the energy company Chevron that dumping oil waste didn't cause cancer because Chevron's largest shareholder was a director on Exponent's board. Exponent "doubted" the director knew of the study. Controversially, Exponent research argued that secondhand smoke does not cause cancer. The firm was also criticized for assisting industry efforts to reduce chromium regulation.

....

"The first thing you know is that when Exponent is brought in to help a company, that company is in big trouble,"
:rolleyes: <--- edit
Does any of this matter, once the text messages come into play?
of all the reputable, legit, neutral people they could have hired for this, they chose some shady firm best known for manufacturing whatever desired results you might be looking for?

no, why would that matter?

 
actually, this was probably a smaller job.

I'd imagine they got paid the big bucks by big tobacco to show us second hand smoke is harmless.
That's what you guys are going with? I mean, I knew you would attack the source without considering the merits of the report, but I figured you would focus on them having an office in NYC and are therefore salty Jet or Giant fans.
I don't know who these 'you guys' are supposed to be --- I'm one person, and I referenced the los angeles times.

but I guess there are pats fans all over the world, considering how awesome they are.

According to the Los Angeles Times, "Exponent's research has come under fire from critics, including engineers, attorneys and academics who say the company tends to deliver to clients the reports they need to mount a public defense."

In 2009, the Amazon Defense Coalition criticized an Exponent study commissioned by the energy company Chevron that dumping oil waste didn't cause cancer because Chevron's largest shareholder was a director on Exponent's board. Exponent "doubted" the director knew of the study. Controversially, Exponent research argued that secondhand smoke does not cause cancer. The firm was also criticized for assisting industry efforts to reduce chromium regulation.

....

"The first thing you know is that when Exponent is brought in to help a company, that company is in big trouble,"
:rolleyes: <--- edit
Does any of this matter, once the text messages come into play?
of all the reputable, legit, neutral people they could have hired for this, they chose some shady firm best known for manufacturing whatever desired results you might be looking for?

no, why would that matter?
You miss the point. Even if you throw out the PSI data as inconclusive, 90% of the compelling evidence here is in text messages. So I guess my point is, good for you, that still doesn't help the case for Brady and company at all.

 
Has no reaction to the report. Has not had time to digest it. When he gets through it he will comment at another date. Will address it soon.

 
Second hand smoke causes a lot of things but it hasn't been found to have a large effect on cancer:

A large prospective cohort study of more than 76,000 women confirmed a strong association between cigarette smoking and lung cancer but found no link between the disease and secondhand smoke.

“Passive smoking has many downstream health effects—asthma, upper respiratory infections, other pulmonary diseases, cardiovascular disease—but only borderline increased risk of lung cancer,” said Patel. “The strongest reason to avoid passive cigarette smoke is to change societal behavior: to not live in a society where smoking is a norm.

“It’s very reassuring that passive smoke in the childhood home doesn’t increase the risk of lung cancer [in this study],” said Patel. “But it doesn’t decrease the need for us to have strong antismoking measures. There are very few never-smokers in smoking families.”
ETA: :own3d:
Does exposure to secondhand smoke cause cancer?

Yes. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, the U.S. National Toxicology Program, the U.S. Surgeon General, and the International Agency for Research on Cancer have all classified secondhand smoke as a known human carcinogen (a cancer-causing agent) (1, 3, 5, 7).

Inhaling secondhand smoke causes lung cancer in nonsmoking adults (4, 5). Approximately 3,000 lung cancer deaths occur each year among adult nonsmokers in the United States as a result of exposure to secondhand smoke (2). The U.S. Surgeon General estimates that living with a smoker increases a nonsmoker’s chances of developing lung cancer by 20 to 30 percent (4).
from the NATIONAL CANCER institute --- they maybe know a thing or two about cancer

Secondhand Smoke Causes Lung CancerSecondhand smoke causes lung cancer in adults who have never smoked.4

  • Nonsmokers who are exposed to secondhand smoke at home or at work increase their risk of developing lung cancer by 20–30%.2
  • Secondhand smoke causes more than 7,300 lung cancer deaths among U.S. nonsmokers each year.4
  • Nonsmokers who are exposed to secondhand smoke are inhaling many of the same cancer-causing substances and poisons as smokers.2,3,4
  • Even brief secondhand smoke exposure can damage cells in ways that set the cancer process in motion.4
  • As with active smoking, the longer the duration and the higher the level of exposure to secondhand smoke, the greater the risk of developing lung cancer.4
from the CDC

Secondhand smoke causes cancer
from the AMERICAN CANCER SOCIETY

oh, but wait..........cstu on footballguys doesn't think so --- I'll e-mail those guys your corrections.

salty trolls in usual form, I see, even after a couple months hibernation.

shark pool be sharkin'

 
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Blah blah blah. Dealing wth adversity. Had to deal with it to play in SB. Accepts that he is a public figure. Will discuss what they planned on for the evening. Not interfering with his celebrating the SB.

 
SB win not tainted. Cares what peoole close to him think. Already are a lot of people that didn't like him. Says he is blessed.

 
Troy Aikmans comments:

"Sean Payton did not cheat," Aikman contended. "There was nothing that Sean Payton and the Saints did that was illegal. And they did not give themselves a competitive edge. I maintain, regardless of whatever was said in the locker room, and in that locker room, is not anything different than what's been said in any other locker room around the league. There's no proof on the field of what took place that guys were targeting players. You can always pull out a play here and there. They were one of the least penalized teams for unsportsmanlike conduct. So there was no evidence that anything translated to the field that they were trying to hurt players. And they did not give themselves a competitive advantage.

"Now twice, under Bill Belichick and possibly a third time, they've cheated and given themselves an advantage," Aikman said. "To me, the punishment for the Patriots and/or Bill Belichick has to be more severe than what the punishment was for the New Orleans Saints."

Aikman explained that the NFL can't hide from this at a time when New England is the focus.

"There's a great deal of pressure on Roger Goodell, in light of everything that's happened this year, and the way that he's handled all of these situations, and hasn't handled them particularly well by the way, and on this particular case, because there's a lot of coaches and a lot of people that look upon the Patriots as a team that's been favored in some of the things that have happened -- I thought the punishment he got for Spygate was a slap on the wrist, was next to nothing -- so we'll see."
Lost what little respect I had for Troy Aikman.

 
Troy Aikmans comments:

"Sean Payton did not cheat," Aikman contended. "There was nothing that Sean Payton and the Saints did that was illegal. And they did not give themselves a competitive edge. I maintain, regardless of whatever was said in the locker room, and in that locker room, is not anything different than what's been said in any other locker room around the league. There's no proof on the field of what took place that guys were targeting players. You can always pull out a play here and there. They were one of the least penalized teams for unsportsmanlike conduct. So there was no evidence that anything translated to the field that they were trying to hurt players. And they did not give themselves a competitive advantage.

"Now twice, under Bill Belichick and possibly a third time, they've cheated and given themselves an advantage," Aikman said. "To me, the punishment for the Patriots and/or Bill Belichick has to be more severe than what the punishment was for the New Orleans Saints."

Aikman explained that the NFL can't hide from this at a time when New England is the focus.

"There's a great deal of pressure on Roger Goodell, in light of everything that's happened this year, and the way that he's handled all of these situations, and hasn't handled them particularly well by the way, and on this particular case, because there's a lot of coaches and a lot of people that look upon the Patriots as a team that's been favored in some of the things that have happened -- I thought the punishment he got for Spygate was a slap on the wrist, was next to nothing -- so we'll see."
Lost what little respect I had for Troy Aikman.
:lmao: :lmao: guy gets suspended a year for trying to cripple people not nearly as bad as some other guy's football a pound light.

aikman be sharkin'

 
I'm in love with how the Patriots and their fans are reacting to all of this. That Bill Simmons Dan Patrick interview was heroin. The Brady interview was better heroine.

 
of all the reputable, legit, neutral people they could have hired for this, they chose some shady firm best known for manufacturing whatever desired results you might be looking for?

no, why would that matter?
If the NFL chose a company to give them the result they'd prefer, they seem to have done a poor job of it.

Instead of having a scientific basis for sweeping it under the rug, they have to go through all the negative reaction to a Super Bowl champion having cheated in the playoffs.

 
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The General said:
Bigboy10182000 said:
The General said:
Bigboy10182000 said:
@adamlevitan: I have DefalteGate fatigue already. Brady used fully inflated balls in Super Bowl. Lit the No. 1 pass D for 37-of-50, 328 yds, 4 TD, 2 INT.
:Sidetrack:Brady and Edelman kicked ### in the Super Bowl for sure.

That was not the number one pass D though. Sherman, Thomas, Kam dinged up, and Lane knocked out of game.

Back to cheater Brady.
And when the balls were properly inflated the second half of the Colts game? Or were people dinged there too? What % dinged?
Personally, I'm overlooking the ball pressure, however they kept the balls deflated or inflated whatever. Studies show that maybe they got an advantage, people who played in the NFL that said that it's easier to throw a softball, etc. I'd overlook all that.The issue here is knowingly breaking a rule, getting caught, lying about it trying to cover it up.

It's not defensible.
You get caught doing 30mph in a 25 and you tell the cop you didn't realize when you did know just how fast you were going. You knew what you were doing, you got caught and you may make a little lie up just to avoid that punishment. None of those types in this thread I bet....How sever should that punishment be? What was gained by going 30? Arriving a few minutes early? In Brady's case what was gained? Throwing for 360 instead of 350? No, because he did better after the balls were fixed....

I'd be all for a suspension and asterisk and all types of stuff if there seemed to be a sizeable advantage but I haven't seen one yet.
Oh, I don't know, after 8 years of getting pulled over ...
How many incidents in those 8 years? I agree Spygate was bad but Deflategate isn't even in the same world as it stands today...
Thing is, we don't know how many games they broke this rule. We don't know how often others broke this rule. Probably (more likely than not) this wasn't the first game they used deflated balls.

 
Troy Aikmans comments:

"Sean Payton did not cheat," Aikman contended. "There was nothing that Sean Payton and the Saints did that was illegal. And they did not give themselves a competitive edge. I maintain, regardless of whatever was said in the locker room, and in that locker room, is not anything different than what's been said in any other locker room around the league. There's no proof on the field of what took place that guys were targeting players. You can always pull out a play here and there. They were one of the least penalized teams for unsportsmanlike conduct. So there was no evidence that anything translated to the field that they were trying to hurt players. And they did not give themselves a competitive advantage.

"Now twice, under Bill Belichick and possibly a third time, they've cheated and given themselves an advantage," Aikman said. "To me, the punishment for the Patriots and/or Bill Belichick has to be more severe than what the punishment was for the New Orleans Saints."

Aikman explained that the NFL can't hide from this at a time when New England is the focus.

"There's a great deal of pressure on Roger Goodell, in light of everything that's happened this year, and the way that he's handled all of these situations, and hasn't handled them particularly well by the way, and on this particular case, because there's a lot of coaches and a lot of people that look upon the Patriots as a team that's been favored in some of the things that have happened -- I thought the punishment he got for Spygate was a slap on the wrist, was next to nothing -- so we'll see."
Lost what little respect I had for Troy Aikman.
:lmao: :lmao: guy gets suspended a year for trying to cripple people not nearly as bad as some other guy's football a pound light.

aikman be sharkin'
There's a certain logic where an Illegal advantage in a game trumps almost all else.

Not saying i agree with it, but there's a logic.

 
of all the reputable, legit, neutral people they could have hired for this, they chose some shady firm best known for manufacturing whatever desired results you might be looking for?

no, why would that matter?
If the NFL chose a company to give them the result they'd prefer, they seem to have done a poor job of it.

Instead of having a scientific basis for sweeping it under the rug, they have to go through all the negative reaction to a Super Bowl champion having cheated in the playoffs.
Thats one way of interpreting that. Another is that the league failed on multiple levels here. Now, instead of them pitting the fans against the NFL or the Patriots, they have pitted them against each other with a narrative.

No ones talking about how poorly the league handled this. People are talking about their interpretation of a cross-section of private text messages from a couple weirdos.

Read Exponents report from the Wells investigation, most of the tests are very clearly not under game conditions. They compare 50 degree pouring rain weather to room temperature spray bottle spritzing a ball every 15 minutes.

 
Troy Aikmans comments:

"Sean Payton did not cheat," Aikman contended. "There was nothing that Sean Payton and the Saints did that was illegal. And they did not give themselves a competitive edge. I maintain, regardless of whatever was said in the locker room, and in that locker room, is not anything different than what's been said in any other locker room around the league. There's no proof on the field of what took place that guys were targeting players. You can always pull out a play here and there. They were one of the least penalized teams for unsportsmanlike conduct. So there was no evidence that anything translated to the field that they were trying to hurt players. And they did not give themselves a competitive advantage.

"Now twice, under Bill Belichick and possibly a third time, they've cheated and given themselves an advantage," Aikman said. "To me, the punishment for the Patriots and/or Bill Belichick has to be more severe than what the punishment was for the New Orleans Saints."

Aikman explained that the NFL can't hide from this at a time when New England is the focus.

"There's a great deal of pressure on Roger Goodell, in light of everything that's happened this year, and the way that he's handled all of these situations, and hasn't handled them particularly well by the way, and on this particular case, because there's a lot of coaches and a lot of people that look upon the Patriots as a team that's been favored in some of the things that have happened -- I thought the punishment he got for Spygate was a slap on the wrist, was next to nothing -- so we'll see."
Lost what little respect I had for Troy Aikman.
:lmao: :lmao: guy gets suspended a year for trying to cripple people not nearly as bad as some other guy's football a pound light.

aikman be sharkin'
There's a certain logic where an Illegal advantage in a game trumps almost all else.

Not saying i agree with it, but there's a logic.
yeah, what advantage could possibly be gained by knocking an opposing player out of the game?

shark pool be sharkin'

 
of all the reputable, legit, neutral people they could have hired for this, they chose some shady firm best known for manufacturing whatever desired results you might be looking for?

no, why would that matter?
If the NFL chose a company to give them the result they'd prefer, they seem to have done a poor job of it.

Instead of having a scientific basis for sweeping it under the rug, they have to go through all the negative reaction to a Super Bowl champion having cheated in the playoffs.
Thats one way of interpreting that. Another is that the league failed on multiple levels here. Now, instead of them pitting the fans against the NFL or the Patriots, they have pitted them against each other with a narrative.

No ones talking about how poorly the league handled this. People are talking about their interpretation of a cross-section of private text messages from a couple weirdos.
Let's be honest, there are really only so many ways you can take those texts. None of them are positive for Brady.

 
of all the reputable, legit, neutral people they could have hired for this, they chose some shady firm best known for manufacturing whatever desired results you might be looking for?

no, why would that matter?
If the NFL chose a company to give them the result they'd prefer, they seem to have done a poor job of it.

Instead of having a scientific basis for sweeping it under the rug, they have to go through all the negative reaction to a Super Bowl champion having cheated in the playoffs.
Thats one way of interpreting that. Another is that the league failed on multiple levels here. Now, instead of them pitting the fans against the NFL or the Patriots, they have pitted them against each other with a narrative.No ones talking about how poorly the league handled this. People are talking about their interpretation of a cross-section of private text messages from a couple weirdos.
Let's be honest, there are really only so many ways you can take those texts. None of them are positive for Brady.
.....unless you are a Pats fan apparently.

 
Read Exponents report from the Wells investigation, most of the tests are very clearly not under game conditions. They compare 50 degree pouring rain weather to room temperature spray bottle spritzing a ball every 15 minutes.
that's how brady likes his balls

copyrighting the spritzer before it goes viral

 
of all the reputable, legit, neutral people they could have hired for this, they chose some shady firm best known for manufacturing whatever desired results you might be looking for?

no, why would that matter?
If the NFL chose a company to give them the result they'd prefer, they seem to have done a poor job of it.

Instead of having a scientific basis for sweeping it under the rug, they have to go through all the negative reaction to a Super Bowl champion having cheated in the playoffs.
Thats one way of interpreting that. Another is that the league failed on multiple levels here. Now, instead of them pitting the fans against the NFL or the Patriots, they have pitted them against each other with a narrative.

No ones talking about how poorly the league handled this. People are talking about their interpretation of a cross-section of private text messages from a couple weirdos.
Let's be honest, there are really only so many ways you can take those texts. None of them are positive for Brady.
They are taken entirely out of context and literally framed to be interpreted a specific way in the Wells report.

Instead of the investigation reporting their findings they also cast judgement on several individuals. Why would they do that if they weren't pushing a narrative.

They bookend each one of those texts with their preconceptions then with the individuals testimonies followed IMMEDIATELY with Well's saying its "Implausible" or "Improbable".

 
of all the reputable, legit, neutral people they could have hired for this, they chose some shady firm best known for manufacturing whatever desired results you might be looking for?

no, why would that matter?
If the NFL chose a company to give them the result they'd prefer, they seem to have done a poor job of it.

Instead of having a scientific basis for sweeping it under the rug, they have to go through all the negative reaction to a Super Bowl champion having cheated in the playoffs.
Thats one way of interpreting that. Another is that the league failed on multiple levels here. Now, instead of them pitting the fans against the NFL or the Patriots, they have pitted them against each other with a narrative.No ones talking about how poorly the league handled this. People are talking about their interpretation of a cross-section of private text messages from a couple weirdos.
Let's be honest, there are really only so many ways you can take those texts. None of them are positive for Brady.
They are taken entirely out of context and literally framed to be interpreted a specific way in the Wells report.Instead of the investigation reporting their findings they also cast judgement on several individuals. Why would they do that if they weren't pushing a narrative.

They bookend each one of those texts with their preconceptions then with the individuals testimonies followed IMMEDIATELY with Well's saying its "Implausible" or "Improbable".
Out of context? Come on man just admit it. You cheated but you have trophies which is better than a lot of teams.

 
Aikman is right. They were not penalized any more than the average team. They didn't seek out to injure. Every defensive player wants to lay the hurt on the opposition. That's not news. Playing dirty or outside the rules to injure someone is where there is an issue and there is no proof saints players did that anymore than any other team. They just have rewards for results that happened in the level field of play.

 
Aikman is right. They were not penalized any more than the average team. They didn't seek out to injure. Every defensive player wants to lay the hurt on the opposition. That's not news. Playing dirty or outside the rules to injure someone is where there is an issue and there is no proof saints players did that anymore than any other team. They just have rewards for results that happened in the level field of play.
yeah, that's why the year long suspensions --- nothing happened

salty trolls upping dat antes

 
A few things:

1.) The NFL looks bad and there is a lot wrong with the report.

2.) However, this is bad for Brady and it is pretty obvious at this point that he knew this was going on and lied about several things.

3.) Deflating balls isn't really a big deal at all. I'd bet that other teams do the same and worse.

Bottom line is that it is obvious Brady knew, sorry to all the guys with Brady posters in their bedrooms, but your boy got caught. On the other hand, I think it is just as obvious that the league had it out for Brady/the Pats on this one and certainly slanted the report to make the team/Brady look bad. In either case, its not really a good look, yet still, it is May and the draft is over and all anyone is talking about is the NFL.

 
of all the reputable, legit, neutral people they could have hired for this, they chose some shady firm best known for manufacturing whatever desired results you might be looking for?

no, why would that matter?
If the NFL chose a company to give them the result they'd prefer, they seem to have done a poor job of it.

Instead of having a scientific basis for sweeping it under the rug, they have to go through all the negative reaction to a Super Bowl champion having cheated in the playoffs.
Thats one way of interpreting that. Another is that the league failed on multiple levels here. Now, instead of them pitting the fans against the NFL or the Patriots, they have pitted them against each other with a narrative.

No ones talking about how poorly the league handled this. People are talking about their interpretation of a cross-section of private text messages from a couple weirdos.
Let's be honest, there are really only so many ways you can take those texts. None of them are positive for Brady.
They are taken entirely out of context and literally framed to be interpreted a specific way in the Wells report.

Instead of the investigation reporting their findings they also cast judgement on several individuals. Why would they do that if they weren't pushing a narrative.

They bookend each one of those texts with their preconceptions then with the individuals testimonies followed IMMEDIATELY with Well's saying its "Implausible" or "Improbable".
Ha! me thinks the texts already establish the "narrative". Nothing needs to be pushed.

 

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