Patriots being investigated after Colts game (4 Viewers)

[Baloney Sandwich]

8 games

Sounds right. It probably gets reduced to 4 on appeal.

4 games isn't enough IMO. The league handed out a 4 game suspension for texting during a game. In that case, I don't think anybody even

alleged that the team had gained a competitive advantage -- it was just about setting a precedent. If you're going to suspend somebody for 4 games over a relative technicality, you

have to come down harder on somebody who engaged in deliberate, systematic and material cheating over the course of multiple games (multiple season really).

I honestly think Brady should sit the next season out. That's based on a combination of the cheating, his history of prior cheating, lying about

said cheating, and refusing to cooperate with the league's investigation. In other words, it's not solely based on just the deflated footballs.

I'm not sure how Cleveland can even hope to be competitive those first 4 games while their GM is suspended.

 

[moleculo]

Question for Pats fans: do you guys feel that the Pats are the target of unfair witch hunts by the NFL? Not by the media or other NFL fans, but the NFL administration itself.

I ask for a couple of reasons.

I',m a Ravens fan. I don't know if there's another fan base - especially one as small as Baltimore's - that dreams up so many conspiracy theories about how "we are getting ####ed by the league; they just want the Pats & Steelers to win". From the schedule to fines, it's amazing what they come up with (it's also pretty amusing).

I'm also getting a martyr vibe from several posters in this thread, which amuses me even more.

As a Bronco fan, I can say that we feel the same as you - we harbor a ton of conspiracies as well, including East coast Bias, the media-driven love of everything New England including demi-god worship of Brady (and, oddly Ray Lewis to tie it into Baltimore).I agree that its amusing seeing a team do blessed by the NFL powers claim persecution.

 

[GoBirds]

Brady will vigorously appeal. And there would be a court battle beyond that. Michael McCann was on the radio and felt the chances of riding the process out and winning are slim. He DET the Wells report is biased, has more he's than Swiss cheese, and left out any evidence or discussion that the Pats provided. He again pointed out that Beady himself did not manipulate any footballs, so he felt that is part of the rules on tampering with the footballs.

Also, Brady has the deepest pockets of all players in the NFL and a lawsuit against the league with the best lawyers on earth would amount to pocket change for him.

This is just getting started.

I don't think you want Brady, Tweedledum and Tweedledumber under oath on the stand in an actual court of law.

Ding ding ding.

 

[GoBirds]

Brady will vigorously appeal. And there would be a court battle beyond that. Michael McCann was on the radio and felt the chances of riding the process out and winning are slim. He DET the Wells report is biased, has more he's than Swiss cheese, and left out any evidence or discussion that the Pats provided. He again pointed out that Beady himself did not manipulate any footballs, so he felt that is part of the rules on tampering with the footballs.

Also, Brady has the deepest pockets of all players in the NFL and a lawsuit against the league with the best lawyers on earth would amount to pocket change for him.

This is just getting started.

Just curious here... has an athlete ever "vigorously" appealed a ruling or judgment supported by an independent investigation and (a) won or (b) saved his legacy? Bonds, ARod and Clemens come to mind first.

Exactly, look at how that turned out. Brady needs to take it like a man and move on.

 

[espnespn]

Question for Pats fans: do you guys feel that the Pats are the target of unfair witch hunts by the NFL? Not by the media or other NFL fans, but the NFL administration itself.

I ask for a couple of reasons.

I',m a Ravens fan. I don't know if there's another fan base - especially one as small as Baltimore's - that dreams up so many conspiracy theories about how "we are getting ####ed by the league; they just want the Pats & Steelers to win". From the schedule to fines, it's amazing what they come up with (it's also pretty amusing).

I'm also getting a martyr vibe from several posters in this thread, which amuses me even more.

Honestly, I don't think the NFL administration (as a whole) is out to get any team. There are individuals in the NFL (like Mike Kensil) who are biased and try to target certain teams like the Patriots, but that happens in any large organization.

The problem is that the media can have double-standards for teams like the Patriots. If you want undisputed proof of this, here you go:

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/02/12/throwback-thursday-nfl-handled-spygate-accusations-very-differently-in-2006/

Once the media runs with these stories long enough, the NFL is forced to investigate. And that's where the media double-standard translates into a NFL selection bias against the Patriots: the more times you are investigated, the more chances you get busted.

Cynics will say: "well, don't cheat at all, and you won't get busted at all." This is true, but very superficial and glib. It's like when the Tampa Police got recently exposed for racially profiling black bike riders (black bikers are about 25% of the population, but get stopped way more often, and get 79% of the bike tickets).

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/how-riding-your-bike-can-land-you-in-trouble-with-the-cops---if-youre-black/2225966

[edited: replaced with source link]

Are black bike riders in Tampa worse law-breakers than white bike riders? It's impossible to tell, with the known selection bias.

Before some people here try to deliberately misinterpret me as saying the Patriots are oppressed like minorities, THAT IS NOT WHAT I AM SAYING. I am saying that selection bias fueled by the media can easily make the Patriots seem like they cheat more than other teams.

Would you like me to explain the differences between the Dolphins and Patriots situations? Even though they are listed in the article you posted?

Yes, please explain why stealing signals isn't considered cheating if the Dolphins do it. Any differences about how they did it don't change the underlying signal stealing.

 

[Stealthycat]

ban Brady 8 games

ban every referee 4 games that has been in a Pat's game and didn't notice the deflated ball. They're guilty too of allowing it

 

[espnespn]

I see we've moved through "nothing happened" and "it's no big deal" into the "everybody does it" stage.

I can't really place that on Elizabeth Kubler Ross's spectrum. Are we closer to "grief"and "acceptance"?

That depends. Have you accepted that the Patriots won 4 SBs, Brady and Belichick will be in the HoF regardless, and that Deflategate will never result in any asterisks in the official NFL record books?

 

[Jercules]

This is interesting:

http://yourteamcheats.com/

No its not. Was posted earlier in the thread and its pure crap.

Why is it crap? Seems like a pretty good place for a fair-minded NFL fan to gain a little perspective before they fall for this "Brady is the Anti-Christ" crap being peddled around here.

I always knew those Denver SOBs were rotten to the core!

Because it is. IF that site had tried to be legitimate, it would have made a better point, but labeling every team a cheater because of "tampergate" (because every NFL team tampers with FA) or as a cheater because of "cheapsgate" if they've had even a single player fined for an illegal hit since 2010 makes it seem like the petty nonsense that a Pat/Brady fan threw up to say, what Brady did is ok because other teams do bad stuff too.

It's like when a 5 year gets in trouble for being bad, he automatically rats out his sister for doing something completely unrelated. It's childish.

Bingo.

I don't see how you can call it nonsense just because it is, in your opinion, overly exhaustive. It's supposed to be a catalog of every 'offense' perpetrated by every team in the NFL dating back to God knows when: of course there's going to be an entry or two that straddle the line.

And tampering isn't cheating because everyone does it? Come on.

 

[JohnnyU]

I see we've moved through "nothing happened" and "it's no big deal" into the "everybody does it" stage.

I can't really place that on Elizabeth Kubler Ross's spectrum. Are we closer to "grief"and "acceptance"?

That depends. Have you accepted that the Patriots won 4 SBs, Brady and Belichick will be in the HoF regardless, and that Deflategate will never result in any asterisks in the official NFL record books?

I know you are suffering right now. Now is the time to hug your wife and children and say everything is going to be OK. I know it hurts that your heroes have let you down but the sun will rise tomorrow.

 

[BroadwayG]

Just goes to show what owning up to your misdeeds can do. Jerry Rice admits he used stickum to become the best WR ever and noone cares. Brady hides the fact he deflates balls to become the best QB ever and everyone throws a hissy.

 

[GoBirds]

I see we've moved through "nothing happened" and "it's no big deal" into the "everybody does it" stage.

I can't really place that on Elizabeth Kubler Ross's spectrum. Are we closer to "grief"and "acceptance"?

That depends. Have you accepted that the Patriots won 4 SBs, Brady and Belichick will be in the HoF regardless, and that Deflategate will never result in any asterisks in the official NFL record books?

*

 

[Stealthycat]

ya'll think they deflated balls every game and NO OFFICIAL EVER NOTICED ?

seriously that makes sense to you ?

and you KNOW that the second half of the AFC championship the balls were not deflated and Brady was a beast, as he was in the Super Bowl.

haters gonna hate I guess, and not that there isn't something there .... buy ya'll talk like he's throwing a deflated ball and he certainly is NOT .... no NFL QB can throw a deflated ball. 11 # isn't deflated .... not it isn't 14# but its NOT deflated

deflate is word most of ya'll don't even understand ... slightly under inflated is a much better way to talk about this

 

[massraider]

Yes, please explain why stealing signals isn't considered cheating if the Dolphins do it. Any differences about how they did it don't change the underlying signal stealing.

Because the Dolphins didn't tape signals from an are where they weren't supposed to, giving them an illegal advantage, as specifically instructed not to an a league memo.

Attempting to listen to a QB giving the playcall isn't cheating. Standing next to the huddle, and attempting to do the same thing? Cheating. See?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

ya'll think they deflated balls every game and NO OFFICIAL EVER NOTICED ?

seriously that makes sense to you ?

and you KNOW that the second half of the AFC championship the balls were not deflated and Brady was a beast, as he was in the Super Bowl.

haters gonna hate I guess, and not that there isn't something there .... buy ya'll talk like he's throwing a deflated ball and he certainly is NOT .... no NFL QB can throw a deflated ball. 11 # isn't deflated .... not it isn't 14# but its NOT deflated

deflate is word most of ya'll don't even understand ... slightly under inflated is a much better way to talk about this

You would think the scandal would be, "hey guess what the NFL doesn't control its own equipment and it hasn't for 90 years. Maybe someone in the league office should finally be held accountable."

This may be just one reason home teams have such an advantage.

The whole thing with Goodell is he acts when he and the league have been embarrassed. To hell with precedent, or prior communications, or how the league is really run and played. It would be pretty damned funny to get the league's emails and files on this issue going back years.

 

[massraider]

ya'll think they deflated balls every game and NO OFFICIAL EVER NOTICED ?

seriously that makes sense to you ?

My, that certainly was a lucky guess by the Ravens, and the Colts equipment manager, wasn't it?

 

[massraider]

If you are looking forward to the 'vigorous' defense, and Tom's scary army of lawyers that only he can afford, here's part of Mr. Bob Kraft's statement after the findings were released:

While I respect the independent process of the investigation, the time, effort and resources expended to reach this conclusion are incomprehensible to me. Knowing that there is no real recourse available, fighting the league and extending this debate would prove to be futile. We understand and greatly respect the responsibility of being one of 32 in this league and, on that basis, we will accept the findings of the report and take the appropriate actions based on those findings as well as any discipline levied by the league.

 

[Stealthycat]

if Brady and Patriots have been doing it for 10 years then yeah - its exceptionally lucky guessing

is it a "new" thing ? I dunno .... does 1# or 1/2 # of air pressure matter THAT much ?

the variances per the NFL rules are 1 # * 12.5 to 13.5 # PSI )

if A.Rodgers and the Packers get caught with a 12.4 ball this fall, are they going to be suspended for it ?

 

[Stealthycat]

Tom will take the slap on the hand, as will the Patriots and if I were them ? I'd demand checking ball pressure a dozen times a game all season long.

I bet if they did, they'd find dozens of balls over or under pressure.

 

[massraider]

.... does 1# or 1/2 # of air pressure matter THAT much ?

I know one handsome QB with a lovely wife that thinks so.

But perhaps you know better than this fellow.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I see we've moved through "nothing happened" and "it's no big deal" into the "everybody does it" stage.

I can't really place that on Elizabeth Kubler Ross's spectrum. Are we closer to "grief"and "acceptance"?

That depends. Have you accepted that the Patriots won 4 SBs, Brady and Belichick will be in the HoF regardless, and that Deflategate will never result in any asterisks in the official NFL record books?

Only an idiot wouldn't accept those things.

See how easy it is?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

if Brady and Patriots have been doing it for 10 years then yeah - its exceptionally lucky guessing

is it a "new" thing ? I dunno .... does 1# or 1/2 # of air pressure matter THAT much ?

the variances per the NFL rules are 1 # * 12.5 to 13.5 # PSI )

if A.Rodgers and the Packers get caught with a 12.4 ball this fall, are they going to be suspended for it ?

Has the NFL changed its rules on procedures on control of the equipment as a part of this?

This reminds me a little bit of being in a playground pickup basketball game. Players are bumping and fouling and doing whatever they can to block shots and disrupt dribbling lanes, but every so often there is a guy who calls a foul and wants a foul shot like he's Kobe Bryant playing at Staples. His arm was touched on the way to the basket. Yes, that's a foul all right.

 

[General Tso]

Hi everyone. Thought I'd come in here and eat a little crow. Still haven't read the report, but what I did read is not good. I'm very disappointed in Tom. Borderline angry. Not sure what else I can say. Just dumb and callous, and I think he's looking at 4 games minimum. I wouldn't be surprised if they throw the book at him and issue a season long suspension.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

any new developments, or still just the parade of trolling, peeing, and from the usual suspects?

 

[The General]

Hi everyone. Thought I'd come in here and eat a little crow. Still haven't read the report, but what I did read is not good. I'm very disappointed in Tom. Borderline angry. Not sure what else I can say. Just dumb and callous, and I think he's looking at 4 games minimum. I wouldn't be surprised if they throw the book at him and issue a season long suspension.

This is how you do it.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

any new developments, or still just the parade of trolling, peeing, and from the usual suspects?

See the post above yours if you need help on how to proceed.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

if Brady and Patriots have been doing it for 10 years then yeah - its exceptionally lucky guessing

is it a "new" thing ? I dunno .... does 1# or 1/2 # of air pressure matter THAT much ?

the variances per the NFL rules are 1 # * 12.5 to 13.5 # PSI )

if A.Rodgers and the Packers get caught with a 12.4 ball this fall, are they going to be suspended for it ?

Sure, if it can be shown that after the refs set the pressure a Packer or a Packer Staffer being rewarded by Rodgers surreptitiously changed the pressure. Of course in Rodgers case the ball would be over the pressure, not under.

 

[Donnybrook]

8 games

How many games does A A Ron get? http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/aaron-rodgers-likes-his-footballs-overinflated/

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Tom will take the slap on the hand, as will the Patriots and if I were them ? I'd demand checking ball pressure a dozen times a game all season long.

I bet if they did, they'd find dozens of balls over or under pressure.

The guilty should not feel they are in a position to petulantly demand anything. Still, childish petulance aside, I am O.K. with a team requesting this. I say go for it, just so long as every time they are wrong they begin by losing a challenge flag, and then time outs, and finally are penalized 15 yards.

 

[the moops]

I am quite sure every coach, player, and GM is generally aware of something happening that is beyond the rules. Gonna be a busy year for the commissioner's office handing out all those suspensions.

 

[Anarchy99]

What I don't get is the Jets ratted out the Jets for Spygate. The Colts and or Ravens ratted NE out for Deflategate. But if the Pays then spill dirt on another team they would be acting like five year olds?

 

[identikit]

What I don't get is the Jets ratted out the Jets for Spygate. The Colts and or Ravens ratted NE out for Deflategate. But if the Pays then spill dirt on another team they would be acting like five year olds?

You should take a breath or 3.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

What I don't get is the Jets ratted out the Jets for Spygate. The Colts and or Ravens ratted NE out for Deflategate. But if the Pays then spill dirt on another team they would be acting like five year olds?

you aren't familiar with internet trolling?

 

[Anarchy99]

What I don't get is the Jets ratted out the Jets for Spygate. The Colts and or Ravens ratted NE out for Deflategate. But if the Pays then spill dirt on another team they would be acting like five year olds?

You should take a breath or 3.

Not sure why. I already said the Pats are dirty like it's nobody's business. I was asking a serious question. If NE has evidence that other teams have been breaking the rules, they should just sit on it if other teams are going to get their players suspended?

 

[identikit]

What I don't get is the Jets ratted out the Jets for Spygate. The Colts and or Ravens ratted NE out for Deflategate. But if the Pays then spill dirt on another team they would be acting like five year olds?

You should take a breath or 3.

Not sure why. I already said the Pats are dirty like it's nobody's business.I was asking a serious question. If NE has evidence that other teams have been breaking the rules, they should just sit on it if other teams are going to get their players suspended?

Re-read what you posted.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

8 games

How many games does A A Ron get? http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/aaron-rodgers-likes-his-footballs-overinflated/

OMG!1 Exactly the same!1!!!1

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

his nick is A A Ron now?

I don't think that's catching on

 

[Donnybrook]

his nick is A A Ron now?

I don't think that's catching on

https://youtu.be/Dd7FixvoKBw?t=104 Mike and Mike are already calling him A A Ron.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

....then quit cheating, it's that simple.

or the very least get better at it

 

[BroadwayG]

I'd like to see some transcripts of the interviews conducted. Either they're terrible at it, or Pats counsel only let them answer a handful of questions.

 

[espnespn]

Yes, please explain why stealing signals isn't considered cheating if the Dolphins do it. Any differences about how they did it don't change the underlying signal stealing.

Because the Dolphins didn't tape signals from an are where they weren't supposed to, giving them an illegal advantage, as specifically instructed not to an a league memo.

Attempting to listen to a QB giving the playcall isn't cheating. Standing next to the huddle, and attempting to do the same thing? Cheating. See?

Haha, I love how Salty Haters defend obvious signal stealing when it is not the Patriots.

You might as well argue that the Dolphins viewed a tape made from a Sony camcorder, while the Patriots viewed a tape from a Panasonic camcorder. Look...those differences excuse the underlying signal stealing!

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

lol jeff van gundy

 

[espnespn]

I see we've moved through "nothing happened" and "it's no big deal" into the "everybody does it" stage.

I can't really place that on Elizabeth Kubler Ross's spectrum. Are we closer to "grief"and "acceptance"?

That depends. Have you accepted that the Patriots won 4 SBs, Brady and Belichick will be in the HoF regardless, and that Deflategate will never result in any asterisks in the official NFL record books?

*

It's been 7-8 years since Spygate, and I still don't see any * in the NFL record books for the first 3 Patriots SBs. Keep trying though, maybe it'll happen soon!

 

[BigSteelThrill]

lol jeff van gundy

lol, he is on natrional TV showing his ignorance. so funny.

if you dont have any idea about legal terminology why would you expose yourself in such a way?

 

[mbuehner]

8 games

Sounds right. It probably gets reduced to 4 on appeal.

4 games isn't enough IMO. The league handed out a 4 game suspension for texting during a game. In that case, I don't think anybody even alleged that the team had gained a competitive advantage -- it was just about setting a precedent. If you're going to suspend somebody for 4 games over a relative technicality, you have to come down harder on somebody who engaged in deliberate, systematic and material cheating over the course of multiple games (multiple season really).

I honestly think Brady should sit the next season out. That's based on a combination of the cheating, his history of prior cheating, lying about said cheating, and refusing to cooperate with the league's investigation. In other words, it's not solely based on just the deflated footballs.

There won't be an appeal. This isn't a violation of the CBA.This is blatant cheating, and refusal to cooperate.

No appeal.

Uh huh. We'll see.

 

[General Malaise]

I wonder how Saints fans feel about this. Anything less than a full season for Tommy Cheater and they should riot.

 

[rockaction]

If you are looking forward to the 'vigorous' defense, and Tom's scary army of lawyers that only he can afford, here's part of Mr. Bob Kraft's statement after the findings were released:

While I respect the independent process of the investigation, the time, effort and resources expended to reach this conclusion are incomprehensible to me. Knowing that there is no real recourse available, fighting the league and extending this debate would prove to be futile. We understand and greatly respect the responsibility of being one of 32 in this league and, on that basis, we will accept the findings of the report and take the appropriate actions based on those findings as well as any discipline levied by the league.

The NFL is totes scared. I'm sure they've never seen pathetic negotiation tactics like this before.

B-b-but some guy from UNH!!

 

[espnespn]

Hi everyone. Thought I'd come in here and eat a little crow. Still haven't read the report, but what I did read is not good. I'm very disappointed in Tom. Borderline angry. Not sure what else I can say. Just dumb and callous, and I think he's looking at 4 games minimum. I wouldn't be surprised if they throw the book at him and issue a season long suspension.

I'm not sure a long suspension will survive appeal. A lot of people think the NFL should make the suspension longer because of Brady's obstruction. But they forget that Tagliabue overturned the Bountygate obstruction suspension.

"Tagliabue agrees with Goodell’s finding that former Saints defensive end Anthony Hargrove obstructed the NFL’s investigation by denying the bounty program’s existence — at the behest of his coaches. But, Tagliabue writes, “the context of previous NFL punishment for obstruction suggests that a seven-game suspension is unprecedented and unwarranted here.” The example that Tagliabue cites to back this up: the 2010 investigation into Brett Favre’s alleged sexual harassment of a New York Jets employee. “In December 2010, the NFL fined Brett Favre $50,000 — but did not suspend him — for obstruction of a League sexual harassment investigation,” he writes. “Although not entirely comparable to the present matter, this illustrates the NFL’s practice of fining, not suspending, players for serious violations of this type.”

http://keepingscore.blogs.time.com/2012/12/12/reading-between-the-lines-of-the-bountygate-ruling/

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

this is really exponent's position from the report?:

“In sum, the data did not provide a basis for us to determine with absolute certainty whether there was or was not tampering as the analysis of such data ultimately is dependent upon assumptions and information that is not certain.”

compelling

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Anyone remember what happened to woman-beaters before Ray Rice?

Yeah, me either. Because nothing happened. Yet Rice was effectively kicked out of the league.

 

[mbuehner]

Anyone remember what happened to woman-beaters before Ray Rice?

Yeah, me either. Because nothing happened. Yet Rice was effectively kicked out of the league.

Anybody remember when Tom Brady nearly killed his wife on video tape? Wait, he let some air out of some footballs....