Patriots being investigated after Colts game (3 Viewers)

[moleculo]

Bleacher Report saying "heavy" suspension about to come down(4-6 games) and Brady will appeal.

That's too much, IMO. The only reason I can see a suspension that long is the NFL hopes Brady will accept a lessened suspension upon appeal. Someone with more legal knowledge/knowledge about labor law would have to enlighten me about whether accepting a reduced suspension upon appeal would mitigate Brady's legal options.

one would assume that Brady would finally reveal his text messages and tell his complete side of the story as part of the appeal.

I only hope that this all becomes public and Godell doesn't destroy the evidence and then let the Pats off of the hook like he did last time.

hey, I have a question for you, since you seem to be one of the only people around here interested and educated in the science and engineering side of it.

I've seen you mention some kind of a 'master gauge' that apparently reads things 'correctly', whatever that means.

why would a referee in charge of this important task of ball measuring to ensure no unfair competitive advantages in a billion dollar sport be carrying 2 different gauges that read a half pound apart?

also, should we expect various team gauges to synch up with one or another of these, or give a whole spectrum of different readings?

if you have experience with these gauges, what kind of range of disparity could we expect these gauges to read?

thanks for asking a legitimate question without snide. i'm happy to go over this as long as you keep it civil...start up with "shark pool be sharkin'" crap and I'm done.

The master gauge is a high precision gauge that Exponent used, certified and properly calibrated. This gauge can trace it's calibration back to the National Institute of Standards and Technology, as is commonly done with laboratory gauges.

Both of the refs gauges were measured against that master gauge, and ball pressures were transformed to the master gauge, to enable apple-to-apple comparison. Personally, I this is a little excessive and leads to what I call "torturing the data" - i.e. overly manipulating it. I think they did it to give more numbers...only 4 colts balls were measured, each twice. If you have a way to lump all of the data together, you get 8 measurements and while not ideal, n=8 is much better than n=4.

As to why the refs gauges being off -1) properly calibrated gauges are really expensive. They can be damaged in transport, etc. Ultimately though, proper calibration isn't that important, because as long as a gauge is consistent, it provides no team with an advantage. 2) To that point, the exact psi of the football isn't that important either, so long as both teams footballs are equally inflated (i.e. within 1 psi of each other).

Take the Jets game. It's possible the balls were over-inflated because the refs gauge was way off. If that's the case, the Jets were playing with over-inflated footballs too, not just the Pats. An over-inflated ball is kind of like a wet football - it makes the ball hard to throw, and it makes it hard to catch, but equally for both teams. As long as both teams play with an over-inflated ball, neither team has an advantage.

I think it's a problem that the ref had a gauge that was so far off. But again, as long as he used the same gauge to measure both teams balls, it doesn't matter.

As far as the gauge repeatability, I only skimmed thru that portion of the report. it appears that over the operating range we are looking at, both gauges showed a standard deviation of 0.1 psi...that is, if a ball as a true pressure of 12.0PSI, ~68% of the time the gauge will measure between 11.9 and 12.1 PSI, and 99.999% of the time it will measure between 11.7 and 12.3 PSI.

the first bolded is pretty interesting --- I would've thought they could just somehow calibrate their gauges, periodically.

as for the second bolded -- what you're saying is that if one team has balls at 13 psi, and the other team's balls are all at 12 psi (within 1 psi) then everything's fine, there's no problems, and no rules broken?

the third bolded seems like a pretty tremendous leap, to me, but I'm not an engineer --- you think the guy's gauge was off 4 lbs?

does this really happen?

what happened to 99.999% of the time it will measure between 11.7 and 12.3 PSI

also, you do realize that teams don't share the same football anymore?

but you're willing to assume that pats and jets each played with a 16 psi ball?

1. They probably should ensure their gauges are properly calibrated, and I bet they do from here on.

2. If the refs pressure gauge was off and he measured them that way, sure.

3. I have no idea...pure speculation on my part. I have know idea how one football ended up being 16 psi.

99.999% between 11.7 and 12.3 - that would be applicable for the non-logo gauge. The logo gauge would read a true pressure of 12.0 between 12.1 and 12.7 99.999% of the time.

 

[12punch]

so, how do we get a gauge that's 4 lbs off?

4 lbs seems like a lot when the range you're measuring is 1 pound and 3/10ths of a pound is some great competitive advantage.

that'd be like some guy's breathalyzer reading .39 instead of .07 --- that doesn't seem like it'd work too well.

how often would you guess one of those gauges would be 4 lbs off?

so, we have 3 gauges heard from now -- one is apparently 'correct', one a half pound off, and one 4 lbs off?

what if 2 guys each grab a gauge out of the bag to measure a group of balls and one gauge is 4 lbs off in one direction and the other 4 lbs off in the other direction?

or do you think it's more likely one guy gauges all 24+ balls every week?

 

[BroadwayG]

There's going to be a 129 page guidebook for ball pressure maintenance on game day.

 

[moleculo]

so, how do we get a gauge that's 4 lbs off?

4 lbs seems like a lot when the range you're measuring is 1 pound and 3/10ths of a pound is some great competitive advantage.

that'd be like some guy's breathalyzer reading .39 instead of .07 --- that doesn't seem like it'd work too well.

how often would you guess one of those gauges would be 4 lbs off?

so, we have 3 gauges heard from now -- one is apparently 'correct', one a half pound off, and one 4 lbs off?

what if 2 guys each grab a gauge out of the bag to measure a group of balls and one gauge is 4 lbs off in one direction and the other 4 lbs off in the other direction?

or do you think it's more likely one guy gauges all 24+ balls every week?

Walt Anderson typically gauges all of the balls himself (pg 51):

Anderson typically gauges all of the game balls for one team, and then all of the game balls for the other team, before testing the back-up balls.

I can't speak to how other refs do it.

 

[the moops]

Reading it is going to be an 8 game suspension

 

[T J]

Bleacher Report saying "heavy" suspension about to come down(4-6 games) and Brady will appeal.

That's too much, IMO. The only reason I can see a suspension that long is the NFL hopes Brady will accept a lessened suspension upon appeal. Someone with more legal knowledge/knowledge about labor law would have to enlighten me about whether accepting a reduced suspension upon appeal would mitigate Brady's legal options.

one would assume that Brady would finally reveal his text messages and tell his complete side of the story as part of the appeal. I only hope that this all becomes public and Godell doesn't destroy the evidence and then let the Pats off of the hook like he did last time.

hey, I have a question for you, since you seem to be one of the only people around here interested and educated in the science and engineering side of it.

I've seen you mention some kind of a 'master gauge' that apparently reads things 'correctly', whatever that means.

why would a referee in charge of this important task of ball measuring to ensure no unfair competitive advantages in a billion dollar sport be carrying 2 different gauges that read a half pound apart?

also, should we expect various team gauges to synch up with one or another of these, or give a whole spectrum of different readings?

if you have experience with these gauges, what kind of range of disparity could we expect these gauges to read?

The master gauge is the one that has been calibrated and confirmed to measure pressures accurately.

If Anderson carries two gauges, then one is probably a spare/backup. Or maybe the second gauge belonged to another official.

It's possible the official(s) didn't even know one of the gauges (the logo gauge) was out of calibration.

The report concluded that the non-logo gauge was likely the one Anderson used pregame, because the pregame readings were consistent with the teams' desired inflation levels (12.5 Pats, 13.0 Colts). The alternate explanation, that the out-of-calibration logo gauge was instead used, suggests that the Pats and Colts must also have been using gauges that were out of calibration, and by the same amount.

well, doesn't the report also say anderson thinks he used the logo gauge?

why would he think he used a back up gauge, or a gauge belonging to someone else?

I'm pretty sure also said that he's had both those gauges for a couple years.

how does the calibration process work?

how unusual is it for gauges to need calibration, and what kind of range in error can we expect?

thx for the info, btw

Doesn't matter. The Patriots intentionally deflated the balls so absolutely none of this matters one iota. Not one.

 

[GregR]

We don't even know that the ref's gauge was off. The Pat's gauge is subject to the same issues as the refs.

It could be the ref's was off by 3 PSI and he inflated to 13 on it and got 16, and the Pats gauge was perfect.

It could be the ref's gauge was perfect and he inflated to 13 on it and got 13, and the Pats gauge was 3 PSI off and read 16.

It could be the ref's gauge was 1.5 off and 13 on is gauge was really 14.5, and the Pats gauge was also 1.5 PSI off and 14.5 read as 16.

But we do know if one gauge was used for both teams balls, if the gauge is off it affects both teams.

Edit to add: I said 13, the actual limit is 13.5, but same principle.

 

[T J]

so, how do we get a gauge that's 4 lbs off?

4 lbs seems like a lot when the range you're measuring is 1 pound and 3/10ths of a pound is some great competitive advantage.

that'd be like some guy's breathalyzer reading .39 instead of .07 --- that doesn't seem like it'd work too well.

how often would you guess one of those gauges would be 4 lbs off?

so, we have 3 gauges heard from now -- one is apparently 'correct', one a half pound off, and one 4 lbs off?

what if 2 guys each grab a gauge out of the bag to measure a group of balls and one gauge is 4 lbs off in one direction and the other 4 lbs off in the other direction?

or do you think it's more likely one guy gauges all 24+ balls every week?

You're trying to deflect things teflon boy. The Patriots intentionally deflated the balls and everyone knows it. Everyone that matters that is.

 

[12punch]

How is their chicanery even in doubt? The guy referred to himself as "The Deflator" before the season even started!

well, I really don't want to get dragged into a discussion of this nonsense with a bunch of poo flingers, as there's really no point, but in case this is actually a serious question....

I haven't read the thing, and you haven't either, but occasionally somebody will reference things that I want to look up, so at this point I've read a few pages, and the more I read it, the less I can figure out how people see anything in here.

you're referencing a handful of cherry picked texts lifted from a longer conversation between 2 buddies who have been apparently working together for 20 years, so you don't have any idea what kind of context there is, and this one, in particular, is from may.

they aren't playing football in may, but they are probably processing hundreds of footballs from the sound of it --- maybe somebody has some better info on that.

I am 100% sure that guy does deflate a ####load of balls to get them to spec and start the breaking in process.

I'm not making that claim, but the point is these are a handful of texts out of probably hundreds or thousands shot back and forth between these guys and you don't know what they reference any more than I do.

explain these texts that I rarely see mentioned

10/16 10p jastremski (to the deflator) (jets game started at 8:30p)

"Tom is acting crazy about balls" "Ready to vomit!"

10/17 8a jastremski (to his fiancee)

Ugh...Tom was right ---

I just measured some of the balls. They supposed to be 13 lbs... They were like 16. Felt like bricks

10/17 9a jastremski (to the deflator)

I checked some of the balls this morn... The refs
####ed us...a few of then were at almost 16

10/17 9a jastremski

They didnt recheck then after they put air in them

explain that string.

some guys supposedly altering the balls after the refs inspect them, to get them down to 11, are talking about a 16 pound ball that was supposed to be 13 pounds, which is right in the legal wheelhouse.

I'm assuming the ball must've been a little on the low end, like maybe 12, so the ref squirts an extra 4 pounds of air in there without noticing and they actually play with that ball, again without noticing.

people are going back and forth in this thread over a third of a pound of air like they think they have a half a brain in their head and it was left up to brady to notice he was playing with a ball 10x that much over spec --- but...but....the guy sneaking it off to the bathroom.......

the theory that the entire league knew about some great advantage the pats were playing with forever yet kept silent until the one day that a guy happened to sneak off to the bathroom for one minute to deflate 13 balls a third of a pound is the ramblings of an attention starved crackpot or a whiny pats hating troll frustrated by watching his team get drubbed every year.

I expect the next accusation will be about the pats putting listening devices in the other teams' cheese.

looks like about a dozen salty trolls have posted in the 4 hrs since I asked this

guess I'll just crack open a snickers.

What's your question? The posts seem pretty self-explanatory to me. The refs discovered underinflated balls. They pumped them up. Brady noticed and threw a fit. The next day jastremski got his gauge out and found they were overinflated.

Apparently the deflategate team was foiled on that particular day.

my question is how would this happen?

we've already established a long pattern of behavior from 'the deflator' --- those 'deflator' texts were way back in may.

he takes the balls after inspection, sneaks off to the bathroom, and lets out 3/10ths of a pound of air, or whatever it is.

yeat, brady is playing with a 16 pound ball ---- do you think maybe he was daydreaming and accidentally put 4 pounds in instead of taking air out on that one?

also, what's with jastremski saying they were supposed to be 13 pounds?

I thought this whole illicit operation was to get them a pound under the minimum spec so brady would get that extra edge?

where are these balls starting at if 'the deflator' is bringing them down to 13 pounds?

another question I have yet to see answered, is the pats have supposedly had this great illegal edge forever, everybody knew about it, and nobody said a word about it 'til now?

pats are out there winning divisions with this secret weapon, runnin' up scorez, and nobody thought to maybe say something and put a stop to this?

 

[Bucky86]

12PUNCH

 

[12punch]

Bleacher Report saying "heavy" suspension about to come down(4-6 games) and Brady will appeal.

That's too much, IMO. The only reason I can see a suspension that long is the NFL hopes Brady will accept a lessened suspension upon appeal. Someone with more legal knowledge/knowledge about labor law would have to enlighten me about whether accepting a reduced suspension upon appeal would mitigate Brady's legal options.

one would assume that Brady would finally reveal his text messages and tell his complete side of the story as part of the appeal. I only hope that this all becomes public and Godell doesn't destroy the evidence and then let the Pats off of the hook like he did last time.

hey, I have a question for you, since you seem to be one of the only people around here interested and educated in the science and engineering side of it.

I've seen you mention some kind of a 'master gauge' that apparently reads things 'correctly', whatever that means.

why would a referee in charge of this important task of ball measuring to ensure no unfair competitive advantages in a billion dollar sport be carrying 2 different gauges that read a half pound apart?

also, should we expect various team gauges to synch up with one or another of these, or give a whole spectrum of different readings?

if you have experience with these gauges, what kind of range of disparity could we expect these gauges to read?

The master gauge is the one that has been calibrated and confirmed to measure pressures accurately.

If Anderson carries two gauges, then one is probably a spare/backup. Or maybe the second gauge belonged to another official.

It's possible the official(s) didn't even know one of the gauges (the logo gauge) was out of calibration.

The report concluded that the non-logo gauge was likely the one Anderson used pregame, because the pregame readings were consistent with the teams' desired inflation levels (12.5 Pats, 13.0 Colts). The alternate explanation, that the out-of-calibration logo gauge was instead used, suggests that the Pats and Colts must also have been using gauges that were out of calibration, and by the same amount.

well, doesn't the report also say anderson thinks he used the logo gauge?

why would he think he used a back up gauge, or a gauge belonging to someone else?

I'm pretty sure also said that he's had both those gauges for a couple years.

how does the calibration process work?

how unusual is it for gauges to need calibration, and what kind of range in error can we expect?

thx for the info, btw

Doesn't matter. The Patriots intentionally deflated the balls so absolutely none of this matters one iota. Not one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3mxVjB4aqI

 

[the moops]

Reading it is going to be an 8 game suspension

This does seem a bit excessive.

 

[12punch]

We don't even know that the ref's gauge was off. The Pat's gauge is subject to the same issues as the refs.

It could be the ref's was off by 3 PSI and he inflated to 13 on it and got 16, and the Pats gauge was perfect.

It could be the ref's gauge was perfect and he inflated to 13 on it and got 13, and the Pats gauge was 3 PSI off and read 16.

It could be the ref's gauge was 1.5 off and 13 on is gauge was really 14.5, and the Pats gauge was also 1.5 PSI off and 14.5 read as 16.

But we do know if one gauge was used for both teams balls, if the gauge is off it affects both teams.

Edit to add: I said 13, the actual limit is 13.5, but same principle.

you guys actually think these gauges are off 3 and 4 lbs?

have any of you guys ever used a pressure gauge?

I'd like to hear from an informed source.

 

[12punch]

so, how do we get a gauge that's 4 lbs off?

4 lbs seems like a lot when the range you're measuring is 1 pound and 3/10ths of a pound is some great competitive advantage.

that'd be like some guy's breathalyzer reading .39 instead of .07 --- that doesn't seem like it'd work too well.

how often would you guess one of those gauges would be 4 lbs off?

so, we have 3 gauges heard from now -- one is apparently 'correct', one a half pound off, and one 4 lbs off?

what if 2 guys each grab a gauge out of the bag to measure a group of balls and one gauge is 4 lbs off in one direction and the other 4 lbs off in the other direction?

or do you think it's more likely one guy gauges all 24+ balls every week?

You're trying to deflect things teflon boy. The Patriots intentionally deflated the balls and everyone knows it. Everyone that matters that is.

just trying to get a few facts straight on this, and you won't find a sharper group of guys than the shark pool, so I think this would be the place to ask.

think I still have a few unanswered out there if you want to field any of those.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Reading it is going to be an 8 game suspension

Been a lot of leaks to the media over the last several months and lots of them have been very wrong.

 

[Lutherman2112]

5 out of the last 6 posts by 12punch, new record?

The baboon poop isn't going to fling itself.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Reading it is going to be an 8 game suspension

This does seem a bit excessive.

Sounds inflated to me.

 

[All_Day27]

4 games and a 1st round pick lost? Is this true? Wow.

 

[the moops]

@AdamSchefter: Filed to ESPN: Tom Brady suspended four games, Pats lose 1st round pick in 2016 and a 4th in 2017, and team fined $1 million, per source:

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

4 games and a 1st round pick lost? Is this true? Wow.

And a 4th round pick and 1M fine

 

[Bogeys]

According to mad dog sports (cm)

Patriots fine $1,000,000; 2016 first round pick; 2017 fourth round pick

Brady first 4 games suspended

 

[the moops]

Brady would have been better off murdering someone

 

[davearm]

How is their chicanery even in doubt? The guy referred to himself as "The Deflator" before the season even started!

well, I really don't want to get dragged into a discussion of this nonsense with a bunch of poo flingers, as there's really no point, but in case this is actually a serious question....

I haven't read the thing, and you haven't either, but occasionally somebody will reference things that I want to look up, so at this point I've read a few pages, and the more I read it, the less I can figure out how people see anything in here.

you're referencing a handful of cherry picked texts lifted from a longer conversation between 2 buddies who have been apparently working together for 20 years, so you don't have any idea what kind of context there is, and this one, in particular, is from may.

they aren't playing football in may, but they are probably processing hundreds of footballs from the sound of it --- maybe somebody has some better info on that.

I am 100% sure that guy does deflate a ####load of balls to get them to spec and start the breaking in process.

I'm not making that claim, but the point is these are a handful of texts out of probably hundreds or thousands shot back and forth between these guys and you don't know what they reference any more than I do.

explain these texts that I rarely see mentioned

10/16 10p jastremski (to the deflator) (jets game started at 8:30p)

"Tom is acting crazy about balls" "Ready to vomit!"

10/17 8a jastremski (to his fiancee)

Ugh...Tom was right ---

I just measured some of the balls. They supposed to be 13 lbs... They were like 16. Felt like bricks

10/17 9a jastremski (to the deflator)

I checked some of the balls this morn... The refs
####ed us...a few of then were at almost 16

10/17 9a jastremski

They didnt recheck then after they put air in them

explain that string.

some guys supposedly altering the balls after the refs inspect them, to get them down to 11, are talking about a 16 pound ball that was supposed to be 13 pounds, which is right in the legal wheelhouse.

I'm assuming the ball must've been a little on the low end, like maybe 12, so the ref squirts an extra 4 pounds of air in there without noticing and they actually play with that ball, again without noticing.

people are going back and forth in this thread over a third of a pound of air like they think they have a half a brain in their head and it was left up to brady to notice he was playing with a ball 10x that much over spec --- but...but....the guy sneaking it off to the bathroom.......

the theory that the entire league knew about some great advantage the pats were playing with forever yet kept silent until the one day that a guy happened to sneak off to the bathroom for one minute to deflate 13 balls a third of a pound is the ramblings of an attention starved crackpot or a whiny pats hating troll frustrated by watching his team get drubbed every year.

I expect the next accusation will be about the pats putting listening devices in the other teams' cheese.

looks like about a dozen salty trolls have posted in the 4 hrs since I asked this

guess I'll just crack open a snickers.

What's your question? The posts seem pretty self-explanatory to me. The refs discovered underinflated balls. They pumped them up. Brady noticed and threw a fit. The next day jastremski got his gauge out and found they were overinflated.

Apparently the deflategate team was foiled on that particular day.

my question is how would this happen?

we've already established a long pattern of behavior from 'the deflator' --- those 'deflator' texts were way back in may.

he takes the balls after inspection, sneaks off to the bathroom, and lets out 3/10ths of a pound of air, or whatever it is.

yeat, brady is playing with a 16 pound ball ---- do you think maybe he was daydreaming and accidentally put 4 pounds in instead of taking air out on that one?

also, what's with jastremski saying they were supposed to be 13 pounds?

I thought this whole illicit operation was to get them a pound under the minimum spec so brady would get that extra edge?

where are these balls starting at if 'the deflator' is bringing them down to 13 pounds?

another question I have yet to see answered, is the pats have supposedly had this great illegal edge forever, everybody knew about it, and nobody said a word about it 'til now?

pats are out there winning divisions with this secret weapon, runnin' up scorez, and nobody thought to maybe say something and put a stop to this?

How could what happen? How could it be that McNally wasn't able to sneak off and do his deflator thing on this particular day?

If the ref found an improperly inflated ball, he should have pumped it to 13. So "they supposed to be 13" is in regard to what the ref should have set them to. Not McNally.

The answer to the last question is, because the competitive advantage is small. It's not zero, as you tried to claim earlier before hiding behind that juvenile "I never said that" nonsense. It's also not a huge advantage, and nobody ever claimed it was. The Pats aren't at risk of a huge sanction because of the severity of the action itself. They're in trouble because they're repeat offenders, they lied, and they were in some ways uncooperative with the investigation.

But all of this has been explained countless times now.

 

[GregR]

Four games seems a reasonable range, I was thinking 2.

But the draft picks are way too much. Even with Spygate in their past... a single 4th by itself might have been too high for me. I could see a little higher than the Falcons got for the crowd noise. But 1st and 4th? Wow.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Brady would have been better off murdering someone

Well the Pats certainly would have.

 

[David Dodds]

predicting it now:

The games get reduced to 3 so the Patriots can have Brady after their bye for the Nationally televised game against Dallas.

 

[cstu]

Andrew Brandt ‏@adbrandt 37s37 seconds ago

To Brady: "..your failure to cooperate, refusing to produce any relevant electronic evidence despite being offered extraordinary safeguards"

 

[Devine Intervention]

Well all those pats fans that said its nothing and nothing will come of it....

I guess now it's time to complain on how unfair it is.

 

[TLEF316]

No chance this is upheld on appeal, so the NFL gets to look like they laid down the law.

It will end up being 2 games at most and they'll only lose 1 pick. This was just the NFL overreaching so they have somewhere more reasonable to go on appeal.

 

[davearm]

McNally and Jastremski are gonna have to wash a lot of dishes in the cafeteria to pay back that $1M.

 

[Alkahsu]

Still a non-story?

 

[Bucky86]

 

[CletiusMaximus]

The commish has lost control, lost his mind on this.

 

[msudaisy26]

Brady gets 4 games. Patriots fined 1 million and loss of a 2016 1st and 2017 4th.

What do we think it will be appealed down to?

 

[The General]

Lot of dogs getting kicked in Gloucester tonight.

 

[davearm]

No chance this is upheld on appeal, so the NFL gets to look like they laid down the law.

It will end up being 2 games at most and they'll only lose 1 pick. This was just the NFL overreaching so they have somewhere more reasonable to go on appeal.

Lots of folks were thinking there's no chance the NFL would take Brady off the field for the Thursday prime time season opener. Whoops.

 

[cstu]

How ya like them deflated balls?

 

[The General]

1st game back against Colts. ULTIMATE RATINGS STORM.

 

[David Dodds]

Some will say too harsh, but it's about the integrity of the game. This was NATIONAL NEWS leading up to the Superbowl. The texts suggest an ongoing issue all year. Brady then went on national TV and lied about it.

The balls were doctored to enhance performance. It is fitting that it is in line with a PEDS penalty. I think it's safe to say Kraft will not be getting his apology anytime soon.

 

[12punch]

In the meantime, let’s continue to rip apart that 243-page pile of toilet paper known as the Wells report because 1) what else are we going to do? 2) It’s too easy.

You know, one thing I’ve heard over and over from NFL critics this past week is how they can’t believe that the Wells report is 243 pages, while the Mueller report (which investigated the league’s access to the Ray Rice elevator video) was only 93 pages — but really, it makes total sense.

In both cases, the “report” began with a simple question:

Wells: Did the Patriots illegally deflate footballs before the AFC Championship?

Mueller: Did the NFL see the Ray Rice video before suspending Rice for only two games?

In both cases, there was insufficient evidence to prove anything either way.

However, the Mueller report concluded that this “thing” that can’t be proven did NOT happen. Meanwhile, the Wells report concluded that this “thing” that can’t be proven DID happen. So, you can see why old Teddy went a little heavier on content. He had a lot more convincing, finessing, and manipulating to do.

To put it another way: Ted Wells thinks that you’re an idiot.

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/wells-report-lost-text-messages

 

[amnesiac]

i don't agree with this at all.

but i will say after reading many of your opinions over the last few days, i suppose i understand their reasoning.

that being said, i think the 1st round pick is way too much.

 

[TLEF316]

No chance this is upheld on appeal, so the NFL gets to look like they laid down the law.

It will end up being 2 games at most and they'll only lose 1 pick. This was just the NFL overreaching so they have somewhere more reasonable to go on appeal.

Lots of folks were thinking there's no chance the NFL would take Brady off the field for the Thursday prime time season opener. Whoops.

Oh, I totally agree. I hate the pats more than anything and I'm SHOCKED he won't be on the field that night.

 

[flapgreen]

Oof

 

[ShamrockPride]

I would like to commend the NFL here. Honestly. Regardless of how solid or not their evidence may have been, they came to a conclusion he did wrong. They did not back down regardless of this player's stature as a premier player and a face of the league. Everyone was saying cause he's a big time player in the league he'd get off with a slap on the wrist. Good for the NFL on standing their ground.

 

[The General]

Kraft probably sitting by the phone waiting for that apology call.

 

[Run It Up]

How to create parity.

Wait for the best team to violate a rule, seriousness is arbitrary.

Take draft picks.

Well done commish.

 

[Devine Intervention]

Can Brady appeal if he is still not cooperating?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

What will be the grounds for appeal, and who will rule on the appeal?

 

[David Dodds]

From Troy Vincent’s letter to Tom Brady: “With respect to your particular involvement, the report established that there is substantial and credible evidence to conclude you were at least generally aware of the actions of the Patriots’ employees involved in the deflation of the footballs and that it was unlikely that their actions were done without your knowledge. Moreover, the report documents your failure to cooperate fully and candidly with the investigation, including by refusing to produce any relevant electronic evidence (emails, texts, etc.), despite being offered extraordinary safeguards by the investigators to protect unrelated personal information, and by providing testimony that the report concludes was not plausible and contradicted by other evidence.

“Your actions as set forth in the report clearly constitute conduct detrimental to the integrity of and public confidence in the game of professional football. The integrity of the game is of paramount importance to everyone in our league, and requires unshakable commitment to fairness and compliance with the playing rules. Each player, no matter how accomplished and otherwise respected, has an obligation to comply with the rules and must be held accountable for his actions when those rules are violated and the public’s confidence in the game is called into question.”

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]