Patriots being investigated after Colts game (4 Viewers)

[VarsityBlues123]

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes? Sure that makes sense Roger.

Since when does probably having a general knowledge about something mean you did it? I'm not even a Pats fan, but this is just ridiculous. Everyone in here celebrating this is just sad. You're encouraging Lord Goodell to do whatever he pleases.

Goodell is a scumbag and can't wait until he's ousted.

I am not a fan of the Patriots either and would do anything to see them stop being so dang good.

But thinking this punishment fits the crime is beyond unreasonable.

There is no proof, and people are celebrating a punishment without proof. i am not shocked as spiteful angry people get enjoyment out of stuff like this.

all this is proof of is that there are some crappy people who live on the internet.

If by proof you mean 100% certainty then there is never proof in human endeavors. If by proof you mean evidence, well then you are wrong. There is evidence here. You may think the quanta of evidence is insufficient to reach a reliable conclusion, and you are entitled to your opinion, but there is most certainly evidence.

Damn

Wow, so two people are completely naive about this? I'm sure there are more.

A report given by a person paid for by the league to come up with a certain result is not proof.

ETA: Damn.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes? Sure that makes sense Roger.

Since when does probably having a general knowledge about something mean you did it? I'm not even a Pats fan, but this is just ridiculous. Everyone in here celebrating this is just sad. You're encouraging Lord Goodell to do whatever he pleases.

Goodell is a scumbag and can't wait until he's ousted.

I am not a fan of the Patriots either and would do anything to see them stop being so dang good.

But thinking this punishment fits the crime is beyond unreasonable.

There is no proof, and people are celebrating a punishment without proof. i am not shocked as spiteful angry people get enjoyment out of stuff like this.

all this is proof of is that there are some crappy people who live on the internet.

If by proof you mean 100% certainty then there is never proof in human endeavors. If by proof you mean evidence, well then you are wrong. There is evidence here. You may think the quanta of evidence is insufficient to reach a reliable conclusion, and you are entitled to your opinion, but there is most certainly evidence.

Nope, a report given by a person paid for by the league to come up with a certain result is not proof.

Many business can do this and penalize employees for the findings there-in.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes?

Yes.

Actual crimes have another layer of punishment that is far more severe. This is about the integrity of the game.

So why did the Falcons only get a $350k fine? What about the Browns GM sending in plays from his box? Those infractions weren't punished nearly as much as what the Pats just received.

They cant answer any of this, their fake outrage for a team they hate is the most important thing right now.

The answer is that neither of those franchises choose to drag the League through a months long investigation to cover their transgressions. They owned their actions and moved on. That you forget that there was some initial complaining and discussion of their actions only confirms that these things pass quickly unless a team insists on shooting itself in the foot after the fact by pretending tht the obvious did not occur.

 

[Tango]

Yesterday's news that was a game changer was when we learned that the 2 equipment guys were suspended by Goodell last week, that was when it was time for Brady to step up.

At that point there was nothing he could do but raise his hand; even if he didn't do it! (Which he did obviously, but whatever). No hush money he may have paid would be enough because these guys were being publicly blamed and shamed and singled out by the league before any other punishment.

And Brady could have made it all go away with a 10 second speech.

Instead....on Tuesday night he says these guys' livelihood is so worthless that he didn't even bother to read the report.

That's it.

Brady crossed the line from amusing cheater/liar to complete A hole.

He is no leader. He is the opposite of a leader.

Brady should be cut for lack of leadership skills and abscense of character

 

[VarsityBlues123]

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes? Sure that makes sense Roger.

Since when does probably having a general knowledge about something mean you did it? I'm not even a Pats fan, but this is just ridiculous. Everyone in here celebrating this is just sad. You're encouraging Lord Goodell to do whatever he pleases.

Goodell is a scumbag and can't wait until he's ousted.

I am not a fan of the Patriots either and would do anything to see them stop being so dang good.

But thinking this punishment fits the crime is beyond unreasonable.

There is no proof, and people are celebrating a punishment without proof. i am not shocked as spiteful angry people get enjoyment out of stuff like this.

all this is proof of is that there are some crappy people who live on the internet.

If by proof you mean 100% certainty then there is never proof in human endeavors. If by proof you mean evidence, well then you are wrong. There is evidence here. You may think the quanta of evidence is insufficient to reach a reliable conclusion, and you are entitled to your opinion, but there is most certainly evidence.

Nope, a report given by a person paid for by the league to come up with a certain result is not proof.

Many business can do this and penalize employees for the findings there-in.

does not mean it is proof, means there is an agenda. You are making my point for me, keep going.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Yes the agenda is to get to the truth of the matter. Fini~

 

[Holy Schneikes]

I don't know whether 4 games and draft picks is reasonable for the offense or not. I don't know if it's consistent with other rulings or not. I don't know if it's really fair that the league demands Brady's phone records or not. I don't know if other teams/QBs do very similar things on a consistent basis or not.

I don't know much of anything on this subject really, but here's what I THINK:

Brady cheated. On the grand scale, it was a VERY minor, with little to no impact on the game(s). But he broke the rules.

Brady lied about it and continues to lie about it.

I tell my kids not to lie, but I know they will. I tell my kids not to cheat but I know they will. They are human. It's not a black and white world. But I hope I can impress on them the importance of respect and credibility. It's one thing to cheat and/or lie, but to CONTINUE to do it after you are caught only makes the situation worse. It's never too late to own up to your mistakes, the only question is how much of your credibility you want to give up before doing so.

 

[VarsityBlues123]

Yesterday's news that was a game changer was when we learned that the 2 equipment guys were suspended by Goodell last week, that was when it was time for Brady to step up.

At that point there was nothing he could do but raise his hand; even if he didn't do it! (Which he did obviously, but whatever). No hush money he may have paid would be enough because these guys were being publicly blamed and shamed and singled out by the league before any other punishment.

And Brady could have made it all go away with a 10 second speech.

Instead....on Tuesday night he says these guys' livelihood is so worthless that he didn't even bother to read the report.

That's it.

Brady crossed the line from amusing cheater/liar to complete A hole.

He is no leader. He is the opposite of a leader.

Brady should be cut for lack of leadership skills and abscense of character

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes?

Yes.

Actual crimes have another layer of punishment that is far more severe. This is about the integrity of the game.

So why did the Falcons only get a $350k fine? What about the Browns GM sending in plays from his box? Those infractions weren't punished nearly as much as what the Pats just received.

They cant answer any of this, their fake outrage for a team they hate is the most important thing right now.

The answer is that neither of those franchises choose to drag the League through a months long investigation to cover their transgressions. They owned their actions and moved on. That you forget that there was some initial complaining and discussion of their actions only confirms that these things pass quickly unless a team insists on shooting itself in the foot after the fact by pretending tht the obvious did not occur.

So, an agenda. You can keep making my point for me too.

 

[VarsityBlues123]

Yes the agenda is to get to the truth of the matter. Fini~

If you believe this you dont follow the nfl.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes? Sure that makes sense Roger.

Since when does probably having a general knowledge about something mean you did it? I'm not even a Pats fan, but this is just ridiculous. Everyone in here celebrating this is just sad. You're encouraging Lord Goodell to do whatever he pleases.

Goodell is a scumbag and can't wait until he's ousted.

I am not a fan of the Patriots either and would do anything to see them stop being so dang good.

But thinking this punishment fits the crime is beyond unreasonable.

There is no proof, and people are celebrating a punishment without proof. i am not shocked as spiteful angry people get enjoyment out of stuff like this.

all this is proof of is that there are some crappy people who live on the internet.

If by proof you mean 100% certainty then there is never proof in human endeavors. If by proof you mean evidence, well then you are wrong. There is evidence here. You may think the quanta of evidence is insufficient to reach a reliable conclusion, and you are entitled to your opinion, but there is most certainly evidence.

Nope, a report given by a person paid for by the league to come up with a certain result is not proof.

I see, you are not capable of cogent thought. My bad. Carry on with your diatribe.

 

[VarsityBlues123]

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes? Sure that makes sense Roger.

Since when does probably having a general knowledge about something mean you did it? I'm not even a Pats fan, but this is just ridiculous. Everyone in here celebrating this is just sad. You're encouraging Lord Goodell to do whatever he pleases.

Goodell is a scumbag and can't wait until he's ousted.

I am not a fan of the Patriots either and would do anything to see them stop being so dang good.

But thinking this punishment fits the crime is beyond unreasonable.

There is no proof, and people are celebrating a punishment without proof. i am not shocked as spiteful angry people get enjoyment out of stuff like this.

all this is proof of is that there are some crappy people who live on the internet.

If by proof you mean 100% certainty then there is never proof in human endeavors. If by proof you mean evidence, well then you are wrong. There is evidence here. You may think the quanta of evidence is insufficient to reach a reliable conclusion, and you are entitled to your opinion, but there is most certainly evidence.

Nope, a report given by a person paid for by the league to come up with a certain result is not proof.

I see, you are not capable of cogent thought. My bad. Carry on with your diatribe.

expected, the beginning of throwing direct insults. lol

we can go back and forth here but i'll avoid that.

plus i said "some crappy people" on the internet earlier, you could have taken offense.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

One more thought on the "proof" discussion. I think people in general are very confused about the differences between legal "proof", civil "proof", and employer/employee "proof". Even though Brady isn't employed by the NFL (he's employed by the Patriots), that's probably the closest comparison of the three.

If my company thought there was a 50.000000001% of me selling corporate secrets to a competitor, I'd be fired and not much thought would go into it. They MIGHT fire me for a 10% chance and I believe it would be perfectly legal to do so.

There is no "innocent until proven guilty" here. There is no "beyond a reasonable doubt". That's all criminal/legal stuff, designed to make as sure as possible that the government doesn't lock up innocent people. All the NFL is trying to do is make a best guess as to what happened. In this case, with the evidence they have, they believe an infraction occurred. That might be partially because the Patriots didn't cooperate much, and all the evidence they had was evidence against them. Brady doesn't HAVE to give up the records, but if he doesn't, there are consequences to that decision.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

 

[12punch]

Florio just implied pretty strongly that the reason the NFL didn't go after Belichick is because Belichick would "expose" the NFL and other instances of team cheating. I can now no longer listen to Florio's opinion on this matter, as he is demonstrating a propensity to wildly speculate, and is becoming a hack with respect to this issue.

I know that's your pet peeve

 

[12punch]

Before I watched my football team win for titles in fifteen years, and go to two more championship games, and set NFL and individual records for winning, and enjoyed the ongoing career of the greatest player ever to live, this stuff would have bothered me a lot more. And if I were a fan of one of the lesser teams in the league, and was worried I might never see a title in my life time, or had an inferiority complex about my good but not great team, I probably would have joined the clamor for stiffer penalties against a winning team just because it all seemed so unfair. All the fans of losing teams, and teams that finally made the playoffs only to lose the last game of their season, you've got every right to feel vindicated that the big bad patriots got taken down a notch. Enjoy the victory today, such as it is. I remember when rooting against someone felt good because rooting for my teams felt bad, and now that I've been on the other side for so long I get it. I can't help but feel a modicum of pity for those of you who will never live to be on this side of the fence. It's nice over here. And I'm rooting for you to some day get here so you understand. Good luck. Most of you will never see a team you like have this kind of success, ever. I feel badly about that. So, congratulations on winning whatever it is that has you so excited today. I'm happy for those of you who are in the kind of place where this makes you feel better.

That's cute. Really though, how does it feel knowing that only you and your team's fan base are the only ones on the entire planet, not even the league for which you play for, that actually believe your titles are legitimate? LOL

A bostonfred sighting. I couldn't find his post to quote. Deleted? Wouldn't surprise me. He was one of the primary douches I argued with late January and was rude as hell. Glad your team got theirs. I was right. You were wrong. Just wanted to remind you.

Carry on.

That is not very excellent

What happened to the shark pool?

 

[TobiasFunke]

One more thought on the "proof" discussion. I think people in general are very confused about the differences between legal "proof", civil "proof", and employer/employee "proof". Even though Brady isn't employed by the NFL (he's employed by the Patriots), that's probably the closest comparison of the three.

If my company thought there was a 50.000000001% of me selling corporate secrets to a competitor, I'd be fired and not much thought would go into it. They MIGHT fire me for a 10% chance and I believe it would be perfectly legal to do so.

There is no "innocent until proven guilty" here. There is no "beyond a reasonable doubt". That's all criminal/legal stuff, designed to make as sure as possible that the government doesn't lock up innocent people. All the NFL is trying to do is make a best guess as to what happened. In this case, with the evidence they have, they believe an infraction occurred. That might be partially because the Patriots didn't cooperate much, and all the evidence they had was evidence against them. Brady doesn't HAVE to give up the records, but if he doesn't, there are consequences to that decision.

Great post, important point, will be completely ignored.

 

[Devine Intervention]

You guys are idiots. What he is saying is that laws broken outside of the game of football are dealt with by the law and the legal court systems. If those players are guilty they are already punished by the law. It has nothing to do with the league. The league is not a court system. All they can do is say whether or not that situation makes the shield look bad and then they punish them not for the crime but for tarnishing the leagues brand.

Brady isn't getting 4 games for air pressure. Brady is getting 4 games for not complying with the league investigation. Which is a serious offense because if he gets away with that then there is no reason for any player or team to ever comply with an investigation by the league.

You guys are silly. A gm got 4 games over a text message. A text message.

 

[JimmyJabroni]

I'm a little late to this, but...

I guess I can understand the Brady suspension if they thought it more probable than not that he knew about what was going on.

But I don't understand the team losing draft picks if the report found it unlikely that the coach or organization knew about it.

 

[moleculo]

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes?

Yes.

Actual crimes have another layer of punishment that is far more severe. This is about the integrity of the game.

So why did the Falcons only get a $350k fine? What about the Browns GM sending in plays from his box? Those infractions weren't punished nearly as much as what the Pats just received.

It was worse. It was (at least) a second such offense and the previous penalty didn't stop them from doing it again.

Tom was videotaping the teams and playing QB? Impressive.

A player didn't pipe in music or send in text from the sideline either. You guys have a real hard time staying on point. Your own point no-less.

Oh I see, you think they stole defensive signals and then didnt inform their starting QB about those signals. Pats* are better then that at cheating.

My original point was that the NFL is basically saying this is worse than criminal activity. You went on about integrity of the game. Myself and another poster showed you examples of the game's integrity being messed with and teams receiving lesser fines. Maybe reading is hard for you.

The Pats and Brady have done more damage to the integrity of the game. Other teams were penalized. Repeat offenders and obstructors tend to have more issues with penalties.

This damaged this integrity of the game? When multiple QBs have come out saying they've done something similar? To me, this is akin to a batter using too much pine tar on his bat. It's really not a big deal.

I understand the team having to surrender picks and getting the $1M fine. But why does Brady get 4 games? He's not a repeat offender.

this is new to me. Can you name one other QB that instructed his guys to alter game equipment AFTER the referee had insepected and certified it?

 

[Jercules]

The sanctimony on this thread is unreal, especially among the people who are otherwise intellectually capable of breaking down the science in the Exponent report, or sketching the relevant legal theories for Goodell's case vs. the Patriots.

Prediction: in another few years, we're going to find out that Patriots players wore illegal cleats! and the priests all over this message board will be hysterical about the "integrity of the game!" and how they "teach their kids not to cheat or steal!"

They'll all have a good sobfest, cheer like the 2nd Death Star exploded when Goodell takes $100 million and 3 first round draft picks away, and finally skulk back to their monastery.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I'm a little late to this, but...

I guess I can understand the Brady suspension if they thought it more probable than not that he knew about what was going on.

But I don't understand the team losing draft picks if the report found it unlikely that the coach or organization knew about it.

Ignorance isn't an acceptable excuse. As the leaders of these origination (and the organizations themselves) its their duty to know.

Lack of institutional control.

 

[moleculo]

You guys are idiots. What he is saying is that laws broken outside of the game of football are dealt with by the law and the legal court systems. If those players are guilty they are already punished by the law. It has nothing to do with the league. The league is not a court system. All they can do is say whether or not that situation makes the shield look bad and then they punish them not for the crime but for tarnishing the leagues brand.

Brady isn't getting 4 games for air pressure. Brady is getting 4 games for not complying with the league investigation. Which is a serious offense because if he gets away with that then there is no reason for any player or team to ever comply with an investigation by the league.

You guys are silly. A gm got 4 games over a text message. A text message.

exactly.

 

[JimmyJabroni]

I'm a little late to this, but...

I guess I can understand the Brady suspension if they thought it more probable than not that he knew about what was going on.

But I don't understand the team losing draft picks if the report found it unlikely that the coach or organization knew about it.

Ignorance isn't an acceptable excuse. As the leaders of these origination (and the organizations themselves) its their duty to know.

Lack of institutional control.

But then shouldn't every organization that has a player who uses Performance Enhancing Drugs to cheat also lose draft picks?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I'm a little late to this, but...

I guess I can understand the Brady suspension if they thought it more probable than not that he knew about what was going on.

But I don't understand the team losing draft picks if the report found it unlikely that the coach or organization knew about it.

Because the organization became uncooperative as the investigation moved along. The Patriots apparently denied Wells access to the equipment guys for what would have been a final "interview." That's the one where Wells lays out all the evidence he has on these guys -- the ball measurements, the text messages, the memorabilia, the videotape -- and asks them if they'd now like to tell him what really happened. Of course the league is going to come down hard for that.

 

[moleculo]

The sanctimony on this thread is unreal, especially among the people who are otherwise intellectually capable of breaking down the science in the Exponent report, or sketching the relevant legal theories for Goodell's case vs. the Patriots.

Prediction: in another few years, we're going to find out that Patriots players wore illegal cleats! and the priests all over this message board will be hysterical about the "integrity of the game!" and how they "teach their kids not to cheat or steal!"

They'll all have a good sobfest, cheer like the 2nd Death Star exploded when Goodell takes $100 million and 3 first round draft picks away, and finally skulk back to their monastery.

what's unreal to me is how so many people are so causal to look the other way when people are caught cheating, refuse to comply with the investigation, complain about how the deck is stacked against them (imagine that...people complaining that the most blessed franchise in sports is a target lol) and then whine about the consequences...

all because you happen to like the shirt the cheaters wear on Sundays.

 

[biju]

I'm a little late to this, but...

I guess I can understand the Brady suspension if they thought it more probable than not that he knew about what was going on.

But I don't understand the team losing draft picks if the report found it unlikely that the coach or organization knew about it.

That's exactly what Sean Payton said, and what Pete Carroll said in USC. How is this situation different?

 

[Tango]

The sanctimony on this thread is unreal, especially among the people who are otherwise intellectually capable of breaking down the science in the Exponent report, or sketching the relevant legal theories for Goodell's case vs. the Patriots.

Prediction: in another few years, we're going to find out that Patriots players wore illegal cleats! and the priests all over this message board will be hysterical about the "integrity of the game!" and how they "teach their kids not to cheat or steal!"

They'll all have a good sobfest, cheer like the 2nd Death Star exploded when Goodell takes $100 million and 3 first round draft picks away, and finally skulk back to their monastery.

Whoa.

Brady called out the Ravens to read the rules and stirred the hornets nest

And it was somewhat easy to show he cheated a little bit for a little while; seriously NOT a big deal on its own.

But then Brady had a path to choose. Lie and deny or spin a nice little apology together.

He chose to lie and that is where this went off the rails. Not only did he cause BB to tell a science lesson and Kraft to embarrass himself, he has also ruined people's lives in the process.

The last part is a big deal.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I'm a little late to this, but...

I guess I can understand the Brady suspension if they thought it more probable than not that he knew about what was going on.

But I don't understand the team losing draft picks if the report found it unlikely that the coach or organization knew about it.

Ignorance isn't an acceptable excuse. As the leaders of these origination (and the organizations themselves) its their duty to know.

Lack of institutional control.

But then shouldn't every organization that has a player who uses Performance Enhancing Drugs to cheat also lose draft picks?

That would set a new precedent for PED violations. For the organization Its more akin to when a team cheats the salary cap and does lose draft picks as a result.

 

[Jercules]

I'm a little late to this, but...

I guess I can understand the Brady suspension if they thought it more probable than not that he knew about what was going on.

But I don't understand the team losing draft picks if the report found it unlikely that the coach or organization knew about it.

Ignorance isn't an acceptable excuse. As the leaders of these origination (and the organizations themselves) its their duty to know.

Lack of institutional control.

Boy I sure hope you were at the forefront of those Wall Street protests, when a lack of institutional control brought the world's greatest economy to its knees. You must be one of those tireless protesters fighting injustice wherever you see it for you to be so bent out of shape about a pro football team breaking an arcane rule about footballs.

Either that, or you cheer for a different team.

The sanctimony on this thread is unreal, especially among the people who are otherwise intellectually capable of breaking down the science in the Exponent report, or sketching the relevant legal theories for Goodell's case vs. the Patriots.

Prediction: in another few years, we're going to find out that Patriots players wore illegal cleats! and the priests all over this message board will be hysterical about the "integrity of the game!" and how they "teach their kids not to cheat or steal!"

They'll all have a good sobfest, cheer like the 2nd Death Star exploded when Goodell takes $100 million and 3 first round draft picks away, and finally skulk back to their monastery.

what's unreal to me is how so many people are so causal to look the other way when people are caught cheating, refuse to comply with the investigation, complain about how the deck is stacked against them (imagine that...people complaining that the most blessed franchise in sports is a target lol) and then whine about the consequences...

all because you happen to like the shirt the cheaters wear on Sundays.

What's unreal is in a world where so much serious lying and cheating and stealing goes unpunished, and has massively harmful effects on peoples' lives, we have otherwise intelligent guys like you who wax sanctimonious about a ####### football team who deflated their balls below some apparently sacrosanct limit.

And why do you do it? Because you happen to like the shirts of some team they likely bested on the field.

I mean, you in particular are a smart dude, you don't see how preposterous this whole thing is?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

 

[MattFancy]

I'm a little late to this, but...

I guess I can understand the Brady suspension if they thought it more probable than not that he knew about what was going on.

But I don't understand the team losing draft picks if the report found it unlikely that the coach or organization knew about it.

Ignorance isn't an acceptable excuse. As the leaders of these origination (and the organizations themselves) its their duty to know.

Lack of institutional control.

But then shouldn't every organization that has a player who uses Performance Enhancing Drugs to cheat also lose draft picks?

Shouldn't the Seahawks be punished because of all the PED use by their players the last few years? Doesn't that hurt the integrity of the game?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

What's unreal is in a world where so much serious lying and cheating and stealing goes unpunished, and has massively harmful effects on peoples' lives, we have otherwise intelligent guys like you who wax sanctimonious about a ####### football team who deflated their balls before some apparently sacrosanct limit.

And why do you do it? Because you happen to like the shirts of some team they likely bested on the field.

How can you punish Tom when there's still so much violence in the middle east?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I'm a little late to this, but...

I guess I can understand the Brady suspension if they thought it more probable than not that he knew about what was going on.

But I don't understand the team losing draft picks if the report found it unlikely that the coach or organization knew about it.

Ignorance isn't an acceptable excuse. As the leaders of these origination (and the organizations themselves) its their duty to know.

Lack of institutional control.

But then shouldn't every organization that has a player who uses Performance Enhancing Drugs to cheat also lose draft picks?

Shouldn't the Seahawks be punished because of all the PED use by their players the last few years? Doesn't that hurt the integrity of the game?

1) No. Unless the team was found to be promoting their use.

2) Yes, a little bit.

 

[Steelers4Life]

People only hear what they want to hear and focus on what they want to focus on.

Brady isn't being suspended for the act of deflating the balls, and it makes absolutely no difference how of an advantage they did or didn't get. Brady is being suspended for being an ####### just as much as an act he either knew about or orchestrated to circumvent rules.

He laughed at it, denied, and and criticized the entire process until a report comes out that any reasonable person will look at and deduce that at minimum, Brady was well aware of the practice of doctoring the footballs post-inspection and was pretty hard on the guys assigned to make it happen. He's being suspended because he didn't hand over his texts and emails, and there was probably a good reason for it. Pick apart anything you want in the report. There's enough in there that the NFL has more than met the level of "proof" it needs to hand out a punishment like this.

Think about it - Tom is sitting back right now, hearing everyone say he should've given up those records if he did nothing wrong, and what's he doing? Nothing at all. He's hiding from it while others get fined and lose their jobs because of his actions.

So now he's exposed as a liar, two guys lost their jobs, his boss looks like a tool for standing up for him, and his reputation outside of Patriots fans (and even with some Patriots fans) is forever tarnished. And he deserves all of it - not because of the act of doctoring the footballs, but because of what a smug ####### he was trying to lie about it.

I really think the fine to the organization as a whole is a bit harsh based on the findings, but I also have a hard time believing that a control freak like Belichek didn't know what was going on with game balls.

 

[Hoosier16]

Kraft:

Statement from Robert Kraft: “Despite our conviction that there was no tampering with footballs, it was our intention to accept any discipline levied by the league. Today’s punishment, however, far exceeded any reasonable expectation. It was based completely on circumstantial rather than hard or conclusive evidence.

“We are humbled by the support the New England Patriots have received from our fans throughout the world. We recognize our fans’ concerns regarding the NFL’s penalties and share in their disappointment in how this one-sided investigation was handled, as well as the dismissal of the scientific evidence supported by the Ideal Gas Law in the final report.

“Tom Brady has our unconditional support. Our belief in him has not wavered.”

Kraft apparently didn't follow the Hernandez murder trial.

 

[The General]

What's unreal is in a world where so much serious lying and cheating and stealing goes unpunished, and has massively harmful effects on peoples' lives, we have otherwise intelligent guys like you who wax sanctimonious about a ####### football team who deflated their balls before some apparently sacrosanct limit.

And why do you do it? Because you happen to like the shirts of some team they likely bested on the field.

How can you punish Tom when there's still so much violence in the middle east?

 

[TobiasFunke]

A reminder for anyone who thinks the punishment is excessive: the Cowboys and Redskins lost tens of millions in salary cap space for doing literally nothing wrong. If Brady farted during a press conference he would come closer to violating an NFL rule than the Skins and Cowboys did in the events that led to them losing cap space. This isn't a witch hunt, this is just the way the league works now.

 

[Native]

My two cents

1. The infraction was not serious all things considered.

2. Had Brady come clean the day after the AFC championship we'd probably be talking about a fine but no suspension.

3. Had Brady and the Pats organization complied during the Wells Investigation wed likely be talking about a short suspension.

4. Since the team and player stonewalled the NFL, the league really didn't have a choice in the matter. If a team doesn't comply with an investigation they must be handed a harsh penalty or else this type of behavior will repeat itself again and again. There would be no incentive NOT to comply.

Brady just needs to come clean and (eventually) this will all be water under the bridge. It's still not too late.

 

[Bayhawks]

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes?

Yes.

Actual crimes have another layer of punishment that is far more severe. This is about the integrity of the game.

So why did the Falcons only get a $350k fine? What about the Browns GM sending in plays from his box? Those infractions weren't punished nearly as much as what the Pats just received.

It was worse. It was (at least) a second such offense and the previous penalty didn't stop them from doing it again.

Tom was videotaping the teams and playing QB? Impressive.

A player didn't pipe in music or send in text from the sideline either. You guys have a real hard time staying on point. Your own point no-less.

Oh I see, you think they stole defensive signals and then didnt inform their starting QB about those signals. Pats* are better then that at cheating.

My original point was that the NFL is basically saying this is worse than criminal activity. You went on about integrity of the game. Myself and another poster showed you examples of the game's integrity being messed with and teams receiving lesser fines. Maybe reading is hard for you.

No, they aren't. If a person commits a criminal act, it is the government's job to punish him. If his place of employment punishes him, that is IN ADDITION to whatever punishment is handed out by the government. What NE did was break an NFL rule, therefore, the NFL punishment isn't in addition to anything else; it is the only consequence for that act. In addition, the Pats have been warned (2004) about trying to use un-approved footballs, and were penalized for breaking another NFL rule in 2007. So, multiple offenses result in stiffer punishment. Comparing this punishment to what the Falcons got, or what SD got for the towel incident isn't appropriate, as those incidents weren't instances where they had broken league rules previously & received warnings..

If I get a DUI, as a teacher in PA, I face certain consequences, IN ADDITION to whatever punishment the state gives me. The consequences could be as bad as losing my job, but for a first-time offense, that's not automatic. If I get a DUI, am arrested for disorderly conduct, and am questioned in , I will find the consequences are more severe. If Iied on my resume, however (claiming I have a Masters when I only have a Bachelor's degree, for example), I would be fired automatically from my district. Does that mean my district thinks lying on a resume is worse than criminal activity?

Edit-all that said, I still think the punishments (for Brady, and the Pats) were too severe.

 

[moleculo]

I'm a little late to this, but...

I guess I can understand the Brady suspension if they thought it more probable than not that he knew about what was going on.

But I don't understand the team losing draft picks if the report found it unlikely that the coach or organization knew about it.

Ignorance isn't an acceptable excuse. As the leaders of these origination (and the organizations themselves) its their duty to know.

Lack of institutional control.

Boy I sure hope you were at the forefront of

The sanctimony on this thread is unreal, especially among the people who are otherwise intellectually capable of breaking down the science in the Exponent report, or sketching the relevant legal theories for Goodell's case vs. the Patriots.

Prediction: in another few years, we're going to find out that Patriots players wore illegal cleats! and the priests all over this message board will be hysterical about the "integrity of the game!" and how they "teach their kids not to cheat or steal!"

They'll all have a good sobfest, cheer like the 2nd Death Star exploded when Goodell takes $100 million and 3 first round draft picks away, and finally skulk back to their monastery.

what's unreal to me is how so many people are so causal to look the other way when people are caught cheating, refuse to comply with the investigation, complain about how the deck is stacked against them (imagine that...people complaining that the most blessed franchise in sports is a target lol) and then whine about the consequences...

all because you happen to like the shirt the cheaters wear on Sundays.

What's unreal is in a world where so much serious lying and cheating and stealing goes unpunished, and has massively harmful effects on peoples' lives, we have otherwise intelligent guys like you who wax sanctimonious about a ####### football team who deflated their balls before some apparently sacrosanct limit.

And why do you do it? Because you happen to like the shirts of some team they likely bested on the field.

lol.

I do it because I love seeing transient heat transfer analysis being relevant in the news cycle. I love forensic engineering - trying to use physics to re-create what may have happened.

I also do it because patriot fans on this board have a long standing tradition of being whiny tools, and I'm really, really happy for them to see some comeuppance. Case in point - it brings me great joy this story broke just days after this thread was started.

 

[massraider]

A great big old asterisk just got dropped on the Pats 2014 superbowl title.

I really disagree with this. I don't think the crime is all that big of a deal.

A lot of people think this. Why? Brady obviously thought it was important. Brady, along with Manning, pushed for the rule change allowing teams the ability to break in balls. Is anyone aware of Brady pushing for any other rule changes?

Check this out:

2000-2006 Tom Brady fumbled 2.66 Times per Year

2007-2014 Tom Brady fumbled only 1.28 Times per Year.

=48% reduction in fumbles.

In the NFL, teams historically average 1 fumble per every 36-56 plays. The Patriots were right in the middle at once every 46 plays. But then in 2007-2014, the Patriots TEAM stats improved to 1 fumble every 74 plays. A complete statistical outlier where the 2nd best fumbling team was not even close to the staggeringly low fumbling rates of the Pats. Belichick was the coach for all 14 years and has “benched” fumblers throughout his entire career. That didn’t change in 2007.

How exactly can manipulating one of the most important statistics in the game (turnovers) not be a “big deal”?

 

[Donnybrook]

Ross Tucker ‏@RossTuckerNFL

Let's be honest: Brady's done a terrible job proclaiming his innocence. Check this out:... http://fb.me/2YosZ9la3

 

[T J]

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes? Sure that makes sense Roger.

Since when does probably having a general knowledge about something mean you did it? I'm not even a Pats fan, but this is just ridiculous. Everyone in here celebrating this is just sad. You're encouraging Lord Goodell to do whatever he pleases.

Goodell is a scumbag and can't wait until he's ousted.

I am not a fan of the Patriots either and would do anything to see them stop being so dang good.

But thinking this punishment fits the crime is beyond unreasonable.

There is no proof, and people are celebrating a punishment without proof. i am not shocked as spiteful angry people get enjoyment out of stuff like this.

all this is proof of is that there are some crappy people who live on the internet.

If by proof you mean 100% certainty then there is never proof in human endeavors. If by proof you mean evidence, well then you are wrong. There is evidence here. You may think the quanta of evidence is insufficient to reach a reliable conclusion, and you are entitled to your opinion, but there is most certainly evidence.

Damn

Wow, so two people are completely naive about this? I'm sure there are more.

A report given by a person paid for by the league to come up with a certain result is not proof.

ETA: Damn.

This might be the single least intelligent post I've read on these boards. He said there was evidence. And there is. Is anyone disputing the texts on the guy's phones? Anyone? There's more but that's certainly an example.

They're just coming out of the woodwork on this and every one of them looks stupid doing it.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I also do it because patriot fans on this board have a long standing tradition of being whiny tools,

KABOOM!

 

[Jercules]

I'm a little late to this, but...

I guess I can understand the Brady suspension if they thought it more probable than not that he knew about what was going on.

But I don't understand the team losing draft picks if the report found it unlikely that the coach or organization knew about it.

Ignorance isn't an acceptable excuse. As the leaders of these origination (and the organizations themselves) its their duty to know.

Lack of institutional control.

Boy I sure hope you were at the forefront of

The sanctimony on this thread is unreal, especially among the people who are otherwise intellectually capable of breaking down the science in the Exponent report, or sketching the relevant legal theories for Goodell's case vs. the Patriots.

Prediction: in another few years, we're going to find out that Patriots players wore illegal cleats! and the priests all over this message board will be hysterical about the "integrity of the game!" and how they "teach their kids not to cheat or steal!"

They'll all have a good sobfest, cheer like the 2nd Death Star exploded when Goodell takes $100 million and 3 first round draft picks away, and finally skulk back to their monastery.

what's unreal to me is how so many people are so causal to look the other way when people are caught cheating, refuse to comply with the investigation, complain about how the deck is stacked against them (imagine that...people complaining that the most blessed franchise in sports is a target lol) and then whine about the consequences...

all because you happen to like the shirt the cheaters wear on Sundays.

What's unreal is in a world where so much serious lying and cheating and stealing goes unpunished, and has massively harmful effects on peoples' lives, we have otherwise intelligent guys like you who wax sanctimonious about a ####### football team who deflated their balls before some apparently sacrosanct limit.

And why do you do it? Because you happen to like the shirts of some team they likely bested on the field.

lol.

I do it because I love seeing transient heat transfer analysis being relevant in the news cycle. I love forensic engineering - trying to use physics to re-create what may have happened.

I also do it because patriot fans on this board have a long standing tradition of being whiny tools, and I'm really, really happy for them to see some comeuppance. Case in point - it brings me great joy this story broke just days after this thread was started.

There ya go, some honesty.

 

[Bayhawks]

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes? Sure that makes sense Roger.

Since when does probably having a general knowledge about something mean you did it? I'm not even a Pats fan, but this is just ridiculous. Everyone in here celebrating this is just sad. You're encouraging Lord Goodell to do whatever he pleases.

Goodell is a scumbag and can't wait until he's ousted.

I am not a fan of the Patriots either and would do anything to see them stop being so dang good.

But thinking this punishment fits the crime is beyond unreasonable.

There is no proof, and people are celebrating a punishment without proof. i am not shocked as spiteful angry people get enjoyment out of stuff like this.

all this is proof of is that there are some crappy people who live on the internet.

If by proof you mean 100% certainty then there is never proof in human endeavors. If by proof you mean evidence, well then you are wrong. There is evidence here. You may think the quanta of evidence is insufficient to reach a reliable conclusion, and you are entitled to your opinion, but there is most certainly evidence.

Nope, a report given by a person paid for by the league to come up with a certain result is not proof.

OK, but what about a report by an independent party paid to come up with an unbiased result? Because that is what the Wells report is; unless you have PROOF that the NFL want him to come up with a certain result. And based on your previous posts, there's no way you would just make that statement unless you had something undeniable and incontrovertible to support that allegation. Otherwise, you'd look a little hypocritical.

 

[rockaction]

What's unreal is in a world where so much serious lying and cheating and stealing goes unpunished, and has massively harmful effects on peoples' lives, we have otherwise intelligent guys like you who wax sanctimonious about a ####### football team who deflated their balls before some apparently sacrosanct limit.

And why do you do it? Because you happen to like the shirts of some team they likely bested on the field.

How can you punish Tom when there's still so much violence in the middle east?

 

[Jercules]

What's unreal is in a world where so much serious lying and cheating and stealing goes unpunished, and has massively harmful effects on peoples' lives, we have otherwise intelligent guys like you who wax sanctimonious about a ####### football team who deflated their balls before some apparently sacrosanct limit.

And why do you do it? Because you happen to like the shirts of some team they likely bested on the field.

How can you punish Tom when there's still so much violence in the middle east?

I'm just reacting to the sanctimony of some of these people, who want to wax poetic about being honest and having justice served when all they really care about is seeing a football team they don't root for get shafted.

 

[massraider]

There ya go, some honesty.

Your turn.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes? Sure that makes sense Roger.

Since when does probably having a general knowledge about something mean you did it? I'm not even a Pats fan, but this is just ridiculous. Everyone in here celebrating this is just sad. You're encouraging Lord Goodell to do whatever he pleases.

Goodell is a scumbag and can't wait until he's ousted.

I am not a fan of the Patriots either and would do anything to see them stop being so dang good.

But thinking this punishment fits the crime is beyond unreasonable.

There is no proof, and people are celebrating a punishment without proof. i am not shocked as spiteful angry people get enjoyment out of stuff like this.

all this is proof of is that there are some crappy people who live on the internet.

If by proof you mean 100% certainty then there is never proof in human endeavors. If by proof you mean evidence, well then you are wrong. There is evidence here. You may think the quanta of evidence is insufficient to reach a reliable conclusion, and you are entitled to your opinion, but there is most certainly evidence.

Nope, a report given by a person paid for by the league to come up with a certain result is not proof.

OK, but what about a report by an independent party paid to come up with an unbiased result? Because that is what the Wells report is; unless you have PROOF that the NFL want him to come up with a certain result. And based on your previous posts, there's no way you would just make that statement unless you had something undeniable and incontrovertible to support that allegation. Otherwise, you'd look a little hypocritical.