Patriots being investigated after Colts game (4 Viewers)

[gianmarco]

So why wasn't Belichick punished?

Completely exonerated in the report.

Goodell to Sean Payton:

"Both parties have vehemently denied any knowledge or participation in the AFC Championship Game when questioned but ignorance is no excuse when it comes to protecting the shield," Goodell continued.

Sean Payton gets 1 year, Belichick gets absolutely nothing.

 

[cstu]

So why wasn't Belichick punished?

Completely exonerated in the report.

I believe it's possible that Belichick knew nothing about this while it was going on, but would Brady let him speak at the press conference without telling him the truth first?

 

[BroadwayG]

So why wasn't Belichick punished?

Completely exonerated in the report.

Goodell to Sean Payton:

"Both parties have vehemently denied any knowledge or participation in the AFC Championship Game when questioned but ignorance is no excuse when it comes to protecting the shield," Goodell continued.

Sean Payton gets 1 year, Belichick gets absolutely nothing.

So is Goodell going to suspend himself for being ignorant?

 

[BroadwayG]

So why wasn't Belichick punished?

Completely exonerated in the report.

I believe it's possible that Belichick knew nothing about this while it was going on, but would Brady let him speak at the press conference without telling him the truth first?

I don't know, I just passed along the report findings.

 

[cstu]

The point is they didn't take that aspect of their duties very seriously, and it's likely the NFL never asked them to either (perhaps for very good reasons--do we really care about the specific air pressure of a football?--but nonetheless).

When it became a big enough issue to send in investigators, suddenly now it became important for the NFL to pretend it was serious: all the better to lay down the law and credibly punish the Patriots.

and, we have come full circle. Just because the NFL may not have taken air pressure seriously in the past does not give Patriot team employees latitude to manipulate pressure on balls after they have been inspected and certified.

And if refs were filling them too high then employees should have informed the refs that Brady wants the balls inflated to the lowest legally allowed level.

 

[davearm]

Nope, a report given by a person paid for by the league to come up with a certain result is not proof.

If the NFL had paid Wells to come up with a certain result, this would not be that result.

That NFL-sponsored result would have been, "Everything's OK, nobody did anything wrong, the Ideal Gas Law 100% explains those low-ish PSIs" and everyone goes on with their lives thinking everything is kosher in NFL-land.

 

[cstu]

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes?

Yes.

Actual crimes have another layer of punishment that is far more severe. This is about the integrity of the game.

So why did the Falcons only get a $350k fine? What about the Browns GM sending in plays from his box? Those infractions weren't punished nearly as much as what the Pats just received.

You don't understand how much worse it is for the Super Bowl champion to be found guilty of cheating?

 

[cstu]

So why wasn't Belichick punished?

Completely exonerated in the report.

Goodell to Sean Payton:

"Both parties have vehemently denied any knowledge or participation in the AFC Championship Game when questioned but ignorance is no excuse when it comes to protecting the shield," Goodell continued.

Sean Payton gets 1 year, Belichick gets absolutely nothing.

Bill, huh, yeah

What is Goodell?

Absolutely nothing

Say it again, y'all

 

[Jercules]

The point is they didn't take that aspect of their duties very seriously, and it's likely the NFL never asked them to either (perhaps for very good reasons--do we really care about the specific air pressure of a football?--but nonetheless).

When it became a big enough issue to send in investigators, suddenly now it became important for the NFL to pretend it was serious: all the better to lay down the law and credibly punish the Patriots.

and, we have come full circle. Just because the NFL may not have taken air pressure seriously in the past does not give Patriot team employees latitude to manipulate pressure on balls after they have been inspected and certified.

You really do like to jump to extremes don't you? It's somewhat more forgivable to break a rule no one takes seriously, that doesn't mean it's totally forgivable. That's not a complicated point dude.

 

[sho nuff]

So why wasn't Belichick punished?

Completely exonerated in the report.

Goodell to Sean Payton:

"Both parties have vehemently denied any knowledge or participation in the AFC Championship Game when questioned but ignorance is no excuse when it comes to protecting the shield," Goodell continued.

Sean Payton gets 1 year, Belichick gets absolutely nothing.

That people don't understand the difference between the two cases...and how one was an issue that had been going on in Payton's locker room for a while...one they had been warned about in the past.

Between this and Pats fans still believing they did nothing wrong is what is laughable in all of this.

 

[Jercules]

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes?

Yes.

Actual crimes have another layer of punishment that is far more severe. This is about the integrity of the game.

So why did the Falcons only get a $350k fine? What about the Browns GM sending in plays from his box? Those infractions weren't punished nearly as much as what the Pats just received.

You don't understand how much worse it is for the Super Bowl champion to be found guilty of cheating?

You usually hear the "people only care about this because the Patriots win" argument from the other side.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes?

Yes.

Actual crimes have another layer of punishment that is far more severe. This is about the integrity of the game.

So why did the Falcons only get a $350k fine? What about the Browns GM sending in plays from his box? Those infractions weren't punished nearly as much as what the Pats just received.

Did a non-coach/non-scout send in plays from the press box, or did a GM, hoping to sell jerseys and to justify a draft pick try to pressure the coach to start an addled, undersized, under-skilled player. If you were just on a roll with your rant, please ignore the question, but if there was an allegation here the import of which I have previously missed I would appreciate being educated with a link. Thanks.

No link then?

 

[moleculo]

Nope, a report given by a person paid for by the league to come up with a certain result is not proof.

If the NFL had paid Wells to come up with a certain result, this would not be that result.

That NFL-sponsored result would have been, "Everything's OK, nobody did anything wrong, the Ideal Gas Law 100% explains those low-ish PSIs" and everyone goes on with their lives thinking everything is kosher in NFL-land.

that's exactly right.

If the NFL had done a cursory glance at it and simply used the ideal gas law based on outdoors temps, this all goes away. Completely justifyable. I mean, sure there would be salty haters such as myself saying the balls were measured indoors and not outdoors and so the expected temps would be completely different, but while correct, that would be a minority voice.

No, the NFL had the means to make this all go away. I'm sure they would have liked to as well - no one likes to see the shield tarnished, especially a marquee franchise, defending SB champs and SB MVP.

Kudos for the NFL for digging deep, reaching the correct conclusion, and following thru.

 

[12punch]

Yesterday's news that was a game changer was when we learned that the 2 equipment guys were suspended by Goodell last week, that was when it was time for Brady to step up.

At that point there was nothing he could do but raise his hand; even if he didn't do it! (Which he did obviously, but whatever). No hush money he may have paid would be enough because these guys were being publicly blamed and shamed and singled out by the league before any other punishment.

And Brady could have made it all go away with a 10 second speech.

Instead....on Tuesday night he says these guys' livelihood is so worthless that he didn't even bother to read the report.

That's it.

Brady crossed the line from amusing cheater/liar to complete A hole.

You guys gonna have room for him?

Seems pretty tight over there

 

[davearm]

The report examines the conduct of Patriots employees vs. NFL officials, and my point is it exhibits pro-NFL bias by downplaying the fact that officials simply didn't take the possibility of ball tampering seriously even though they're supposed to.

The NFL didn't alert the AFCCG officials to the possibility that balls were being tampered with. They alerted them to the possibility that balls were being underinflated. Anderson was careful to ensure that they were not underinflated when he measured/inspected them.

It does occur to me that this whole episode would have a different complexion if Anderson had decided to re-inspect the balls after they went missing between the locker room and the field. We can only assume that if he had, he would have discovered the lower PSIs right then and there, before atmospheric conditions and Ideal Gas Laws could even enter the equation.

 

[moleculo]

The point is they didn't take that aspect of their duties very seriously, and it's likely the NFL never asked them to either (perhaps for very good reasons--do we really care about the specific air pressure of a football?--but nonetheless).

When it became a big enough issue to send in investigators, suddenly now it became important for the NFL to pretend it was serious: all the better to lay down the law and credibly punish the Patriots.

and, we have come full circle. Just because the NFL may not have taken air pressure seriously in the past does not give Patriot team employees latitude to manipulate pressure on balls after they have been inspected and certified.

You really do like to jump to extremes don't you? It's somewhat more forgivable to break a rule no one takes seriously, that doesn't mean it's totally forgivable. That's not a complicated point dude.

air-pressure in game balls - not taken seriously.

tampering with certified, legal game equipment - very serious.

Please understand this key point. The patriots did not attempt to sneak in non-conforming equipment and hope the refs missed it on inspection, like allegedly Aaron Rodgers did. If that's all there was, no crime. That's not what happened here.

 

[davearm]

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes?

Yes.

Actual crimes have another layer of punishment that is far more severe. This is about the integrity of the game.

So why did the Falcons only get a $350k fine? What about the Browns GM sending in plays from his box? Those infractions weren't punished nearly as much as what the Pats just received.

You don't understand how much worse it is for the Super Bowl champion to be found guilty of cheating?

Actually the Patriots winning the SB has nothing to do with this. It's not as though their punishment would have been less severe had they lost to Seattle (or Indy, for that matter).

 

[Jercules]

The report examines the conduct of Patriots employees vs. NFL officials, and my point is it exhibits pro-NFL bias by downplaying the fact that officials simply didn't take the possibility of ball tampering seriously even though they're supposed to.

The NFL didn't alert the AFCCG officials to the possibility that balls were being tampered with. They alerted them to the possibility that balls were being underinflated. Anderson was careful to ensure that they were not underinflated when he measured/inspected them.

It does occur to me that this whole episode would have a different complexion if Anderson had decided to re-inspect the balls after they went missing between the locker room and the field. We can only assume that if he had, he would have discovered the lower PSIs right then and there, before atmospheric conditions and Ideal Gas Laws could even enter the equation.

I agree entirely with your second paragraph.

With regards to the refs taking the possibility of ball tampering seriously, I meant that as a comment on their usual conduct, not necessarily for that specific game (although I'd include that game too).

 

[Pots]

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes?

Yes.

Actual crimes have another layer of punishment that is far more severe. This is about the integrity of the game.

So why did the Falcons only get a $350k fine? What about the Browns GM sending in plays from his box? Those infractions weren't punished nearly as much as what the Pats just received.

You don't understand how much worse it is for the Super Bowl champion to be found guilty of cheating?

Actually the Patriots winning the SB has nothing to do with this.

Most people going out of your way to cheat helps you win games, and winning games helps in winning the super bowl. Clearly some people find that connection difficult to make.

 

[moleculo]

The report examines the conduct of Patriots employees vs. NFL officials, and my point is it exhibits pro-NFL bias by downplaying the fact that officials simply didn't take the possibility of ball tampering seriously even though they're supposed to.

The NFL didn't alert the AFCCG officials to the possibility that balls were being tampered with. They alerted them to the possibility that balls were being underinflated. Anderson was careful to ensure that they were not underinflated when he measured/inspected them.

It does occur to me that this whole episode would have a different complexion if Anderson had decided to re-inspect the balls after they went missing between the locker room and the field. We can only assume that if he had, he would have discovered the lower PSIs right then and there, before atmospheric conditions and Ideal Gas Laws could even enter the equation.

yes, they did actually.

 

[JohnnyU]

We all know the deflating of footballs had nothing to do with the outcome of the Colts game, but remember, the Ravens game a week earlier was also played in bad weather and it was a close game. Did Brady gain an unfair advantage in that game?

 

[12punch]

You guys are idiots. What he is saying is that laws broken outside of the game of football are dealt with by the law and the legal court systems. If those players are guilty they are already punished by the law. It has nothing to do with the league. The league is not a court system. All they can do is say whether or not that situation makes the shield look bad and then they punish them not for the crime but for tarnishing the leagues brand.

Brady isn't getting 4 games for air pressure. Brady is getting 4 games for not complying with the league investigation. Which is a serious offense because if he gets away with that then there is no reason for any player or team to ever comply with an investigation by the league.

You guys are silly. A gm got 4 games over a text message. A text message.

He was breaking the rules.

Integrity of the game , etc

 

[Jercules]

The point is they didn't take that aspect of their duties very seriously, and it's likely the NFL never asked them to either (perhaps for very good reasons--do we really care about the specific air pressure of a football?--but nonetheless).

When it became a big enough issue to send in investigators, suddenly now it became important for the NFL to pretend it was serious: all the better to lay down the law and credibly punish the Patriots.

and, we have come full circle. Just because the NFL may not have taken air pressure seriously in the past does not give Patriot team employees latitude to manipulate pressure on balls after they have been inspected and certified.

You really do like to jump to extremes don't you? It's somewhat more forgivable to break a rule no one takes seriously, that doesn't mean it's totally forgivable. That's not a complicated point dude.

air-pressure in game balls - not taken seriously.

tampering with certified, legal game equipment - very serious.

Please understand this key point. The patriots did not attempt to sneak in non-conforming equipment and hope the refs missed it on inspection, like allegedly Aaron Rodgers did. If that's all there was, no crime. That's not what happened here.

If tampering with certified game equipment, specifically game balls, was taken so seriously, why was it common for team employees to loiter in the ref's locker room alone with the certified game balls for 15-20 minutes while the refs were on the field doing their pregame?

 

[Jercules]

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes?

Yes.

Actual crimes have another layer of punishment that is far more severe. This is about the integrity of the game.

So why did the Falcons only get a $350k fine? What about the Browns GM sending in plays from his box? Those infractions weren't punished nearly as much as what the Pats just received.

You don't understand how much worse it is for the Super Bowl champion to be found guilty of cheating?

Actually the Patriots winning the SB has nothing to do with this.

Most people going out of your way to cheat helps you win games, and winning games helps in winning the super bowl. Clearly some people find that connection difficult to make.

Cheating isn't as bad if you're not successful anyway. Duh!

 

[Godsbrother]

So why wasn't Belichick punished?

Completely exonerated in the report.

Goodell to Sean Payton:

"Both parties have vehemently denied any knowledge or participation in the AFC Championship Game when questioned but ignorance is no excuse when it comes to protecting the shield," Goodell continued.

Sean Payton gets 1 year, Belichick gets absolutely nothing.

If you are expecting consistency from Goodell then I have some bad news for you...

 

[moleculo]

The point is they didn't take that aspect of their duties very seriously, and it's likely the NFL never asked them to either (perhaps for very good reasons--do we really care about the specific air pressure of a football?--but nonetheless).

When it became a big enough issue to send in investigators, suddenly now it became important for the NFL to pretend it was serious: all the better to lay down the law and credibly punish the Patriots.

and, we have come full circle. Just because the NFL may not have taken air pressure seriously in the past does not give Patriot team employees latitude to manipulate pressure on balls after they have been inspected and certified.

You really do like to jump to extremes don't you? It's somewhat more forgivable to break a rule no one takes seriously, that doesn't mean it's totally forgivable. That's not a complicated point dude.

air-pressure in game balls - not taken seriously.

tampering with certified, legal game equipment - very serious.

Please understand this key point. The patriots did not attempt to sneak in non-conforming equipment and hope the refs missed it on inspection, like allegedly Aaron Rodgers did. If that's all there was, no crime. That's not what happened here.

If tampering with certified game equipment, specifically game balls, was taken so seriously, why was it common for team employees to loiter in the ref's locker room alone with the certified game balls for 15-20 minutes while the refs were on the field doing their pregame?

because it never occurred to the league that someone would be so brazen as to cheat in this manner?

also, can you provide a link as to where this is common? Because that's pretty much the opposite of what the Wells report says.

 

[12punch]

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes?

Yes.

Actual crimes have another layer of punishment that is far more severe. This is about the integrity of the game.

So why did the Falcons only get a $350k fine? What about the Browns GM sending in plays from his box? Those infractions weren't punished nearly as much as what the Pats just received.

It was worse. It was (at least) a second such offense and the previous penalty didn't stop them from doing it again.

Tom was videotaping the teams and playing QB? Impressive.

A player didn't pipe in music or send in text from the sideline either. You guys have a real hard time staying on point. Your own point no-less.

Oh I see, you think they stole defensive signals and then didnt inform their starting QB about those signals. Pats* are better then that at cheating.

My original point was that the NFL is basically saying this is worse than criminal activity. You went on about integrity of the game. Myself and another poster showed you examples of the game's integrity being messed with and teams receiving lesser fines. Maybe reading is hard for you.

The Pats and Brady have done more damage to the integrity of the game. Other teams were penalized. Repeat offenders and obstructors tend to have more issues with penalties.

This damaged this integrity of the game? When multiple QBs have come out saying they've done something similar? To me, this is akin to a batter using too much pine tar on his bat. It's really not a big deal.

I understand the team having to surrender picks and getting the $1M fine. But why does Brady get 4 games? He's not a repeat offender.

this is new to me. Can you name one other QB that instructed his guys to alter game equipment AFTER the referee had insepected and certified it?

Can you show us evidence that Brady ever did that?

You salty trolls are fleas feasting on a dead dog's carcass.

And I'm talking about one of those dogs that cares for the blind or brings rum to stranded mountain climbers

 

[metoo]

I wish Brady would just admit this and move on. Looks like he's going down the Roger Clemens route.

 

[12punch]

I'm a little late to this, but...

I guess I can understand the Brady suspension if they thought it more probable than not that he knew about what was going on.

But I don't understand the team losing draft picks if the report found it unlikely that the coach or organization knew about it.

Ignorance isn't an acceptable excuse. As the leaders of these origination (and the organizations themselves) its their duty to know.

Lack of institutional control.

Hey, wait a minute....aren't you steelers fans the ones whose coach is tripping ppl on the field?

I had forgotten about that one

 

[moleculo]

This damaged this integrity of the game? When multiple QBs have come out saying they've done something similar? To me, this is akin to a batter using too much pine tar on his bat. It's really not a big deal.

I understand the team having to surrender picks and getting the $1M fine. But why does Brady get 4 games? He's not a repeat offender.

this is new to me. Can you name one other QB that instructed his guys to alter game equipment AFTER the referee had insepected and certified it?

Can you show us evidence that Brady ever did that?

You salty trolls are fleas feasting on a dead dog's carcass.

And I'm talking about one of those dogs that cares for the blind or brings rum to stranded mountain climbers

of course.

 

[cstu]

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes?

Yes.

Actual crimes have another layer of punishment that is far more severe. This is about the integrity of the game.

So why did the Falcons only get a $350k fine? What about the Browns GM sending in plays from his box? Those infractions weren't punished nearly as much as what the Pats just received.

You don't understand how much worse it is for the Super Bowl champion to be found guilty of cheating?

You usually hear the "people only care about this because the Patriots win" argument from the other side.

I think there are a lot of reasons why the punishment was more severe in this case:

- pattern of cheating

- non-cooperation

- involved Super Bowl champion

 

[Todd Andrews]

This Redskins fan has no axe to grind but no sympathy for the Pats, Kraft, Brady or Pats fans. I think Brady is one of the greatest football players ever and that the Patriots are an amazingly well run football team who sometimes skirt the lines, but probably no more than most teams (my opinion). I dont have any dislike for the Patriots or Brady, and I think in the greater scheme of things this penalty is excessive. But for the reasons below I am glad it happened and I hope it stands because I think Kraft and the Patriots deserve it.

And I hate Goodell with a blinding whitehot hatred and wish he was fired. He isnt fair and his "rulings" are a joke.

But Kraft did this to himself. When Goodell was expanding his power to become the autocratic, unaccountable, despot that he is today, Kraft went along with it and encouraged it so long as the teams getting burned werent the Patriots or those of his buddies.

Kraft aligned himself with Mara and the "Competition" committee to screw the Redskins (and Dallas) of of millions and millions of dollars in cap space right before the draft when no league cap rule was violated, for violating the "spirit of a non-existent rule", and supposedly hurting the competitiveness of the league. Kraft went along with the behind the scenes owner collusion against the players and agreed to selectively punish certain owners who didnt play along but not others (what about Tampa and other teams who were far below the cap minimum but somehow that doesnt violate the "spirit" of competition even though it results in the same thing: massive amounts of extra cap space once a new collective bargaining agreement is in place the next year?). Kraft helped give Goodell supreme power and went along with the behind the scenes collusion to really screw the players and four teams (Saints and Raiders got dinged too).

Bountygate....no explanation needed. What a joke.

You reap what you sow and no owners are going to back Kraft now because he and his posse helped Goodell become the monster he is today. Fair punishment? Ha. Since when is life fair?

First they came for the Saints, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Saint.

Then they came for the Cowboys, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Cowboys.

Then they came for the Redskins, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Redskin.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

 

[12punch]

People only hear what they want to hear and focus on what they want to focus on.

Brady isn't being suspended for the act of deflating the balls, and it makes absolutely no difference how of an advantage they did or didn't get. Brady is being suspended for being an ####### just as much as an act he either knew about or orchestrated to circumvent rules.

He laughed at it, denied, and and criticized the entire process until a report comes out that any reasonable person will look at and deduce that at minimum, Brady was well aware of the practice of doctoring the footballs post-inspection and was pretty hard on the guys assigned to make it happen. He's being suspended because he didn't hand over his texts and emails, and there was probably a good reason for it. Pick apart anything you want in the report. There's enough in there that the NFL has more than met the level of "proof" it needs to hand out a punishment like this.

Think about it - Tom is sitting back right now, hearing everyone say he should've given up those records if he did nothing wrong, and what's he doing? Nothing at all. He's hiding from it while others get fined and lose their jobs because of his actions.

So now he's exposed as a liar, two guys lost their jobs, his boss looks like a tool for standing up for him, and his reputation outside of Patriots fans (and even with some Patriots fans) is forever tarnished. And he deserves all of it - not because of the act of doctoring the footballs, but because of what a smug ####### he was trying to lie about it.

I really think the fine to the organization as a whole is a bit harsh based on the findings, but I also have a hard time believing that a control freak like Belichek didn't know what was going on with game balls.

Dude, you really need to make some changes in your life if you have this much anger and hostility towards people just because they humiliated your fav team in their last meeting, 59 to whatever, which I believe broke records for both points scored and yardage gained against the steelers.

Maybe without our hof qb and our rb you guys can trip us up this year

 

[Jercules]

The point is they didn't take that aspect of their duties very seriously, and it's likely the NFL never asked them to either (perhaps for very good reasons--do we really care about the specific air pressure of a football?--but nonetheless).

When it became a big enough issue to send in investigators, suddenly now it became important for the NFL to pretend it was serious: all the better to lay down the law and credibly punish the Patriots.

and, we have come full circle. Just because the NFL may not have taken air pressure seriously in the past does not give Patriot team employees latitude to manipulate pressure on balls after they have been inspected and certified.

You really do like to jump to extremes don't you? It's somewhat more forgivable to break a rule no one takes seriously, that doesn't mean it's totally forgivable. That's not a complicated point dude.

air-pressure in game balls - not taken seriously.

tampering with certified, legal game equipment - very serious.

Please understand this key point. The patriots did not attempt to sneak in non-conforming equipment and hope the refs missed it on inspection, like allegedly Aaron Rodgers did. If that's all there was, no crime. That's not what happened here.

If tampering with certified game equipment, specifically game balls, was taken so seriously, why was it common for team employees to loiter in the ref's locker room alone with the certified game balls for 15-20 minutes while the refs were on the field doing their pregame?

because it never occurred to the league that someone would be so brazen as to cheat in this manner?

also, can you provide a link as to where this is common? Because that's pretty much the opposite of what the Wells report says.

That's exactly what the Wells report says.

The relevant link is, you guessed it, the Wells report: http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/photo/2015/05/06/0ap3000000491381.pdf

Page 62, footnote 34:

"The game officials we interviewed—when considering the potential for tampering with the game balls—almost uniformly expressed greater concern that a locker room attendant generally has up to fifteen or twenty minutes alone with the game balls when the game officials are on the field for the pre-game walk-through approximately fifty minutes before kickoff (and after the balls have been inspected)."

* * * * *

"Because it never occurred to the league that somebody would be so brazen as to cheat in this manner?"


Yeah, that's absurd.

 

[BroadwayG]

Looking forward to the Pats putting up over 100 against Tennessee in December.

 

[The General]

The point is they didn't take that aspect of their duties very seriously, and it's likely the NFL never asked them to either (perhaps for very good reasons--do we really care about the specific air pressure of a football?--but nonetheless).

When it became a big enough issue to send in investigators, suddenly now it became important for the NFL to pretend it was serious: all the better to lay down the law and credibly punish the Patriots.

and, we have come full circle. Just because the NFL may not have taken air pressure seriously in the past does not give Patriot team employees latitude to manipulate pressure on balls after they have been inspected and certified.

You really do like to jump to extremes don't you? It's somewhat more forgivable to break a rule no one takes seriously, that doesn't mean it's totally forgivable. That's not a complicated point dude.

air-pressure in game balls - not taken seriously.

tampering with certified, legal game equipment - very serious.

Please understand this key point. The patriots did not attempt to sneak in non-conforming equipment and hope the refs missed it on inspection, like allegedly Aaron Rodgers did. If that's all there was, no crime. That's not what happened here.

If tampering with certified game equipment, specifically game balls, was taken so seriously, why was it common for team employees to loiter in the ref's locker room alone with the certified game balls for 15-20 minutes while the refs were on the field doing their pregame?

because it never occurred to the league that someone would be so brazen as to cheat in this manner?

also, can you provide a link as to where this is common? Because that's pretty much the opposite of what the Wells report says.

The relevant link is the Wells report: http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/photo/2015/05/06/0ap3000000491381.pdf

Page 62, footnote 34:

"The game officials we interviewed—when considering the potential for tampering with the game balls—almost uniformly expressed greater concern that a locker room attendant generally has up to fifteen or twenty minutes alone with the game balls when the game officials are on the field for the pre-game walk-through approximately fifty minutes before kickoff (and after the balls have been inspected)."

* * * * *

"Because it never occurred to the league that somebody would be so brazen as to cheat in this manner?"


Yeah, that's absurd.

Leave it to the Pats.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

People only hear what they want to hear and focus on what they want to focus on.

Brady isn't being suspended for the act of deflating the balls, and it makes absolutely no difference how of an advantage they did or didn't get. Brady is being suspended for being an ####### just as much as an act he either knew about or orchestrated to circumvent rules.

He laughed at it, denied, and and criticized the entire process until a report comes out that any reasonable person will look at and deduce that at minimum, Brady was well aware of the practice of doctoring the footballs post-inspection and was pretty hard on the guys assigned to make it happen. He's being suspended because he didn't hand over his texts and emails, and there was probably a good reason for it. Pick apart anything you want in the report. There's enough in there that the NFL has more than met the level of "proof" it needs to hand out a punishment like this.

Think about it - Tom is sitting back right now, hearing everyone say he should've given up those records if he did nothing wrong, and what's he doing? Nothing at all. He's hiding from it while others get fined and lose their jobs because of his actions.

So now he's exposed as a liar, two guys lost their jobs, his boss looks like a tool for standing up for him, and his reputation outside of Patriots fans (and even with some Patriots fans) is forever tarnished. And he deserves all of it - not because of the act of doctoring the footballs, but because of what a smug ####### he was trying to lie about it.

I really think the fine to the organization as a whole is a bit harsh based on the findings, but I also have a hard time believing that a control freak like Belichek didn't know what was going on with game balls.

Dude, you really need to make some changes in your life if you have this much anger and hostility towards people just because they humiliated your fav team in their last meeting*, 59 to whatever*, which I believe broke records* for both points scored* and yardage gained against the steelers.*

Maybe without our hof qb* and our rb you guys can trip us up this year

Fixed that for you. Just for the sake of historic accuracy.

 

[Tango]

Ben Volin:

"Patriots fans point to other incidents involving equipment tampering the Panthers and Vikings placing footballs under a heater late last season, and the Chargers using sticky towels in 2012 to prove the absurdity of the Patriots punishment. The difference between those incidents and Deflategate? Those teams owned up to it. They pleaded guilty and took their medicine. They Patriots kicked and screamed the entire time, and mocked the process."

 

[Jercules]

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes?

Yes.

Actual crimes have another layer of punishment that is far more severe. This is about the integrity of the game.

So why did the Falcons only get a $350k fine? What about the Browns GM sending in plays from his box? Those infractions weren't punished nearly as much as what the Pats just received.

You don't understand how much worse it is for the Super Bowl champion to be found guilty of cheating?

You usually hear the "people only care about this because the Patriots win" argument from the other side.

I think there are a lot of reasons why the punishment was more severe in this case:

- pattern of cheating

- non-cooperation

- involved Super Bowl champion

Fair enough. I'd argue not all of those are valid reasons, but they certainly are the reasons.

 

[Marauder]

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes?

Yes.

Actual crimes have another layer of punishment that is far more severe. This is about the integrity of the game.

So why did the Falcons only get a $350k fine? What about the Browns GM sending in plays from his box? Those infractions weren't punished nearly as much as what the Pats just received.

You don't understand how much worse it is for the Super Bowl champion to be found guilty of cheating?

You usually hear the "people only care about this because the Patriots win" argument from the other side.

I think there are a lot of reasons why the punishment was more severe in this case:

- pattern of cheating

- non-cooperation

- involved Super Bowl champion

I don't think the fact that they were Super Bowl Champions had anything to do with the punishment. The non-cooperation was huge though.

Goodell and Troy Vincent have made it clear in the past that how much you cooperate with the investigation will be a factor in the punishment. Their statements on the textgate and noisegate rulings made that very clear. In this case, Brady, Belichick and Kraft made the decision to dig in their heels and deny, deny, deny. They dug their own grave.

 

[12punch]

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes? Sure that makes sense Roger.

Since when does probably having a general knowledge about something mean you did it? I'm not even a Pats fan, but this is just ridiculous. Everyone in here celebrating this is just sad. You're encouraging Lord Goodell to do whatever he pleases.

Goodell is a scumbag and can't wait until he's ousted.

I am not a fan of the Patriots either and would do anything to see them stop being so dang good.

But thinking this punishment fits the crime is beyond unreasonable.

There is no proof, and people are celebrating a punishment without proof. i am not shocked as spiteful angry people get enjoyment out of stuff like this.

all this is proof of is that there are some crappy people who live on the internet.

If by proof you mean 100% certainty then there is never proof in human endeavors. If by proof you mean evidence, well then you are wrong. There is evidence here. You may think the quanta of evidence is insufficient to reach a reliable conclusion, and you are entitled to your opinion, but there is most certainly evidence.

Nope, a report given by a person paid for by the league to come up with a certain result is not proof.

OK, but what about a report by an independent party paid to come up with an unbiased result? Because that is what the Wells report is.

Wat

Shark pool be sharkin'

 

[Jercules]

The point is they didn't take that aspect of their duties very seriously, and it's likely the NFL never asked them to either (perhaps for very good reasons--do we really care about the specific air pressure of a football?--but nonetheless).

When it became a big enough issue to send in investigators, suddenly now it became important for the NFL to pretend it was serious: all the better to lay down the law and credibly punish the Patriots.

and, we have come full circle. Just because the NFL may not have taken air pressure seriously in the past does not give Patriot team employees latitude to manipulate pressure on balls after they have been inspected and certified.

You really do like to jump to extremes don't you? It's somewhat more forgivable to break a rule no one takes seriously, that doesn't mean it's totally forgivable. That's not a complicated point dude.

air-pressure in game balls - not taken seriously.

tampering with certified, legal game equipment - very serious.

Please understand this key point. The patriots did not attempt to sneak in non-conforming equipment and hope the refs missed it on inspection, like allegedly Aaron Rodgers did. If that's all there was, no crime. That's not what happened here.

If tampering with certified game equipment, specifically game balls, was taken so seriously, why was it common for team employees to loiter in the ref's locker room alone with the certified game balls for 15-20 minutes while the refs were on the field doing their pregame?

because it never occurred to the league that someone would be so brazen as to cheat in this manner?

also, can you provide a link as to where this is common? Because that's pretty much the opposite of what the Wells report says.

The relevant link is the Wells report: http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/photo/2015/05/06/0ap3000000491381.pdf

Page 62, footnote 34:

"The game officials we interviewed—when considering the potential for tampering with the game balls—almost uniformly expressed greater concern that a locker room attendant generally has up to fifteen or twenty minutes alone with the game balls when the game officials are on the field for the pre-game walk-through approximately fifty minutes before kickoff (and after the balls have been inspected)."

* * * * *

"Because it never occurred to the league that somebody would be so brazen as to cheat in this manner?"


Yeah, that's absurd.

Leave it to the Pats.

That quote describes general league practice, it's not specific to the Pats and even if it was, it still indicates massive nonchalance on the part of the league and the refs with regards to preventing an interested party from fooling with the game balls.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Soulfly and Josh Gordon? 12punch and Tom Brady?

Who you got?

 

[Todd Andrews]

This is what Robert Kraft had to say publicly about Goodell at the owners meeting in late March, 2012, when Goodell had just announced the penalties for Bountygate and the cap penalties against the Redskins and Cowboys and people were screaming for Goodell's head:

"I think he’s done an outstanding job,’’ Kraft said. "We’re lucky to have him as our commissioner. I think it’d be very hard for anyone to be the commissioner of the NFL who hadn’t trained in the NFL, who understands all the nuances and complicated issues that come up. For someone to come in from the outside would be very hard.’’

You made him, Kraft, you live with him.

 

[Tango]

@RapSheet: This is a bit of a surprise. Ted Wells, of the Ted Wells Report, will be on a media conference call at 2pm ET. Imagine some interest in this

 

[MattFancy]

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes?

Yes.

Actual crimes have another layer of punishment that is far more severe. This is about the integrity of the game.

So why did the Falcons only get a $350k fine? What about the Browns GM sending in plays from his box? Those infractions weren't punished nearly as much as what the Pats just received.

You don't understand how much worse it is for the Super Bowl champion to be found guilty of cheating?

You usually hear the "people only care about this because the Patriots win" argument from the other side.

I think there are a lot of reasons why the punishment was more severe in this case:

- pattern of cheating

- non-cooperation

- involved Super Bowl champion

I don't think the fact that they were Super Bowl Champions had anything to do with the punishment. The non-cooperation was huge though.

Goodell and Troy Vincent have made it clear in the past that how much you cooperate with the investigation will be a factor in the punishment. Their statements on the textgate and noisegate rulings made that very clear. In this case, Brady, Belichick and Kraft made the decision to dig in their heels and deny, deny, deny. They dug their own grave.

But didn't the Wells report even state the Patriots cooperated with the investigation?

 

[ChuckLiddell]

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes? Sure that makes sense Roger.

Since when does probably having a general knowledge about something mean you did it? I'm not even a Pats fan, but this is just ridiculous. Everyone in here celebrating this is just sad. You're encouraging Lord Goodell to do whatever he pleases.

Goodell is a scumbag and can't wait until he's ousted.

I am not a fan of the Patriots either and would do anything to see them stop being so dang good.

But thinking this punishment fits the crime is beyond unreasonable.

There is no proof, and people are celebrating a punishment without proof. i am not shocked as spiteful angry people get enjoyment out of stuff like this.

all this is proof of is that there are some crappy people who live on the internet.

If by proof you mean 100% certainty then there is never proof in human endeavors. If by proof you mean evidence, well then you are wrong. There is evidence here. You may think the quanta of evidence is insufficient to reach a reliable conclusion, and you are entitled to your opinion, but there is most certainly evidence.

Nope, a report given by a person paid for by the league to come up with a certain result is not proof.

OK, but what about a report by an independent party paid to come up with an unbiased result? Because that is what the Wells report is.

Wat

Shark pool be sharkin'

Some of you guys are like little kids who think the whole world is out to get you. For the life of me, I cannot come up with a reason why some of you think that the league was out to get the Patriots for no good reason. I have seen this asked, and have asked it myself before, but why on earth would the league want this? Their golden boy, their Champion, and arguably one of the greatest products that the league has ever produced all just got discredited. They have a Thursday Night season kickoff with Jimmy Garoppolo at QB. How does that help them? Why would they orchestrate this, as you seem to believe they did? The whole league has egg on it's face because of this. They would have been much better off "losing" the evidence like they did before...for the same organization that you seem to think they are out to get.

 

[12punch]

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes? Sure that makes sense Roger.

Since when does probably having a general knowledge about something mean you did it? I'm not even a Pats fan, but this is just ridiculous. Everyone in here celebrating this is just sad. You're encouraging Lord Goodell to do whatever he pleases.

Goodell is a scumbag and can't wait until he's ousted.

I am not a fan of the Patriots either and would do anything to see them stop being so dang good.

But thinking this punishment fits the crime is beyond unreasonable.

There is no proof, and people are celebrating a punishment without proof. i am not shocked as spiteful angry people get enjoyment out of stuff like this.

all this is proof of is that there are some crappy people who live on the internet.

If by proof you mean 100% certainty then there is never proof in human endeavors. If by proof you mean evidence, well then you are wrong. There is evidence here. You may think the quanta of evidence is insufficient to reach a reliable conclusion, and you are entitled to your opinion, but there is most certainly evidence.

Nope, a report given by a person paid for by the league to come up with a certain result is not proof.

OK, but what about a report by an independent party paid to come up with an unbiased result? Because that is what the Wells report is; unless you have PROOF that the NFL want him to come up with a certain result. And based on your previous posts, there's no way you would just make that statement unless you had something undeniable and incontrovertible to support that allegation. Otherwise, you'd look a little hypocritical.

There is no undeniable and incontrovertible proof that the Patriots footballs started at 12.5 PSI. Only the claim of the ref that they were. When we have video proof that refs were lax in checking football PSI in other games, saying things like "eh, close enough".

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/22/deflategate-video-how-nfl-officials-check-game-ball-pressure/

Btw, the ref has as much reason to lie as anyone. Why would he admit he didn't do his job checking the PSI?

You mean the league official of record?

HFS.

Yeah, the league official of record who says he used that one gauge they claim he didn't use lo9ooool

 

[Tango]

@RapSheet: This is a bit of a surprise. Ted Wells, of the Ted Wells Report, will be on a media conference call at 2pm ET. Imagine some interest in this

This event represents fuel for approximately 126 more pages of comments in this thread.

 

[Jercules]

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes? Sure that makes sense Roger.

Since when does probably having a general knowledge about something mean you did it? I'm not even a Pats fan, but this is just ridiculous. Everyone in here celebrating this is just sad. You're encouraging Lord Goodell to do whatever he pleases.

Goodell is a scumbag and can't wait until he's ousted.

I am not a fan of the Patriots either and would do anything to see them stop being so dang good.

But thinking this punishment fits the crime is beyond unreasonable.

There is no proof, and people are celebrating a punishment without proof. i am not shocked as spiteful angry people get enjoyment out of stuff like this.

all this is proof of is that there are some crappy people who live on the internet.

If by proof you mean 100% certainty then there is never proof in human endeavors. If by proof you mean evidence, well then you are wrong. There is evidence here. You may think the quanta of evidence is insufficient to reach a reliable conclusion, and you are entitled to your opinion, but there is most certainly evidence.

Nope, a report given by a person paid for by the league to come up with a certain result is not proof.

OK, but what about a report by an independent party paid to come up with an unbiased result? Because that is what the Wells report is.

Wat

Shark pool be sharkin'

Some of you guys are like little kids who think the whole world is out to get you. For the life of me, I cannot come up with a reason why some of you think that the league was out to get the Patriots for no good reason. I have seen this asked, and have asked it myself before, but why on earth would the league want this? Their golden boy, their Champion, and arguably one of the greatest products that the league has ever produced all just got discredited. They have a Thursday Night season kickoff with Jimmy Garoppolo at QB. How does that help them? Why would they orchestrate this, as you seem to believe they did? The whole league has egg on it's face because of this. They would have been much better off "losing" the evidence like they did before...for the same organization that you seem to think they are out to get.

People hate the Pats: fans, players, owners. Goodell has 32 owners to answer to: only one of them has any interest in not vilifying New England.

Furthermore, he has an interest in making sure cheating gets punished, and because the Pats are the Pats, and their shenanigans get a much larger platform (as many here have pointed out), their punishments must likewise be larger. Simple.