Patriots being investigated after Colts game (2 Viewers)

[Tango]

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes? Sure that makes sense Roger.

Since when does probably having a general knowledge about something mean you did it? I'm not even a Pats fan, but this is just ridiculous. Everyone in here celebrating this is just sad. You're encouraging Lord Goodell to do whatever he pleases.

Goodell is a scumbag and can't wait until he's ousted.

I am not a fan of the Patriots either and would do anything to see them stop being so dang good.

But thinking this punishment fits the crime is beyond unreasonable.

There is no proof, and people are celebrating a punishment without proof. i am not shocked as spiteful angry people get enjoyment out of stuff like this.

all this is proof of is that there are some crappy people who live on the internet.

If by proof you mean 100% certainty then there is never proof in human endeavors. If by proof you mean evidence, well then you are wrong. There is evidence here. You may think the quanta of evidence is insufficient to reach a reliable conclusion, and you are entitled to your opinion, but there is most certainly evidence.

Nope, a report given by a person paid for by the league to come up with a certain result is not proof.

OK, but what about a report by an independent party paid to come up with an unbiased result? Because that is what the Wells report is.

WatShark pool be sharkin'

Some of you guys are like little kids who think the whole world is out to get you. For the life of me, I cannot come up with a reason why some of you think that the league was out to get the Patriots for no good reason. I have seen this asked, and have asked it myself before, but why on earth would the league want this? Their golden boy, their Champion, and arguably one of the greatest products that the league has ever produced all just got discredited. They have a Thursday Night season kickoff with Jimmy Garoppolo at QB. How does that help them? Why would they orchestrate this, as you seem to believe they did? The whole league has egg on it's face because of this. They would have been much better off "losing" the evidence like they did before...for the same organization that you seem to think they are out to get.

People hate the Pats: fans, players, owners. Goodell has 32 owners to answer to: only one of them has any interest in not vilifying New England.

Furthermore, he has an interest in making sure cheating gets punished, and because the Pats are the Pats, and their shenanigans get a much larger platform (as many here have pointed out), their punishments must likewise be larger. Simple.

No one I know hates the Pats.

Pats fans are so desperate to be in the same class as Duke and the Yankees....but they're not.

 

[espnespn]

Would you have felt better had they done so? Would you have believed what they wrote? The ref had a specific duty, to bring any ball lower than 12.5 PSI up to that limit. this was done. The ref can testify to this with sincerity and certainty. writing it down would not change the strength of that testimony one iota. Now had the process been video'd, maybe that would offer some small scintilla of greater assurance, but many would question whether the video produced was the video from that day. Apologists have offered this red herring before. You were in the thread at the time. You continue to off4er tired excuses, hoping to convince who, yourself? Good luck with that.

I like how you state things that are unproven with authority, like: "The ref has a specific duty, to bring any ball lower than 12.5 PSI up to that limit. This was done."

Yes, assuming the conclusion makes the conclusion correct. QED.

 

[Jercules]

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes? Sure that makes sense Roger.

Since when does probably having a general knowledge about something mean you did it? I'm not even a Pats fan, but this is just ridiculous. Everyone in here celebrating this is just sad. You're encouraging Lord Goodell to do whatever he pleases.

Goodell is a scumbag and can't wait until he's ousted.

I am not a fan of the Patriots either and would do anything to see them stop being so dang good.

But thinking this punishment fits the crime is beyond unreasonable.

There is no proof, and people are celebrating a punishment without proof. i am not shocked as spiteful angry people get enjoyment out of stuff like this.

all this is proof of is that there are some crappy people who live on the internet.

If by proof you mean 100% certainty then there is never proof in human endeavors. If by proof you mean evidence, well then you are wrong. There is evidence here. You may think the quanta of evidence is insufficient to reach a reliable conclusion, and you are entitled to your opinion, but there is most certainly evidence.

Nope, a report given by a person paid for by the league to come up with a certain result is not proof.

OK, but what about a report by an independent party paid to come up with an unbiased result? Because that is what the Wells report is.

WatShark pool be sharkin'

Some of you guys are like little kids who think the whole world is out to get you. For the life of me, I cannot come up with a reason why some of you think that the league was out to get the Patriots for no good reason. I have seen this asked, and have asked it myself before, but why on earth would the league want this? Their golden boy, their Champion, and arguably one of the greatest products that the league has ever produced all just got discredited. They have a Thursday Night season kickoff with Jimmy Garoppolo at QB. How does that help them? Why would they orchestrate this, as you seem to believe they did? The whole league has egg on it's face because of this. They would have been much better off "losing" the evidence like they did before...for the same organization that you seem to think they are out to get.

People hate the Pats: fans, players, owners. Goodell has 32 owners to answer to: only one of them has any interest in not vilifying New England.

Furthermore, he has an interest in making sure cheating gets punished, and because the Pats are the Pats, and their shenanigans get a much larger platform (as many here have pointed out), their punishments must likewise be larger. Simple.

No one I know hates the Pats.

Pats fans are so desperate to be in the same class as Duke and the Yankees....but they're not.

No one I know likes peanut butter.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

12.5 PSI can't melt steel beams.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes? Sure that makes sense Roger.

Since when does probably having a general knowledge about something mean you did it? I'm not even a Pats fan, but this is just ridiculous. Everyone in here celebrating this is just sad. You're encouraging Lord Goodell to do whatever he pleases.

Goodell is a scumbag and can't wait until he's ousted.

I am not a fan of the Patriots either and would do anything to see them stop being so dang good.

But thinking this punishment fits the crime is beyond unreasonable.

There is no proof, and people are celebrating a punishment without proof. i am not shocked as spiteful angry people get enjoyment out of stuff like this.

all this is proof of is that there are some crappy people who live on the internet.

If by proof you mean 100% certainty then there is never proof in human endeavors. If by proof you mean evidence, well then you are wrong. There is evidence here. You may think the quanta of evidence is insufficient to reach a reliable conclusion, and you are entitled to your opinion, but there is most certainly evidence.

Nope, a report given by a person paid for by the league to come up with a certain result is not proof.

OK, but what about a report by an independent party paid to come up with an unbiased result? Because that is what the Wells report is.

WatShark pool be sharkin'

Some of you guys are like little kids who think the whole world is out to get you. For the life of me, I cannot come up with a reason why some of you think that the league was out to get the Patriots for no good reason. I have seen this asked, and have asked it myself before, but why on earth would the league want this? Their golden boy, their Champion, and arguably one of the greatest products that the league has ever produced all just got discredited. They have a Thursday Night season kickoff with Jimmy Garoppolo at QB. How does that help them? Why would they orchestrate this, as you seem to believe they did? The whole league has egg on it's face because of this. They would have been much better off "losing" the evidence like they did before...for the same organization that you seem to think they are out to get.

People hate the Pats: fans, players, owners. Goodell has 32 owners to answer to: only one of them has any interest in not vilifying New England.

Furthermore, he has an interest in making sure cheating gets punished, and because the Pats are the Pats, and their shenanigans get a much larger platform (as many here have pointed out), their punishments must likewise be larger. Simple.

No one I know hates the Pats.

Pats fans are so desperate to be in the same class as Duke and the Yankees....but they're not.

Dolphins, Jets, and Bills fans hate the Pats. Just like Redskins, Eagles, and Cowboys fans hate the Giants. People outside of the AFC East generally wouldnt care about the Pats, except for the fact that they have proven to be a shady, cheating organization who has parlayed that with success, that has to now be questioned. To think that Goddell and the NFL as an organization want a scandal like this to tarnish the image of their champion just because..well I still dont really know what the "because" is in this delusional line of thinking...but it seems ridiculous to me.

This is the polar opposite of what the NFL wants to have to deal with. Best case scenario for them would have been for the investigation to have determined that their golden boy was 100% clean.

 

[Bayhawks]

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes?

Yes.

Actual crimes have another layer of punishment that is far more severe. This is about the integrity of the game.

So why did the Falcons only get a $350k fine? What about the Browns GM sending in plays from his box? Those infractions weren't punished nearly as much as what the Pats just received.

You don't understand how much worse it is for the Super Bowl champion to be found guilty of cheating?

You usually hear the "people only care about this because the Patriots win" argument from the other side.

I think there are a lot of reasons why the punishment was more severe in this case:

- pattern of cheating

- non-cooperation

- involved Super Bowl champion

I don't think the fact that they were Super Bowl Champions had anything to do with the punishment. The non-cooperation was huge though.

Goodell and Troy Vincent have made it clear in the past that how much you cooperate with the investigation will be a factor in the punishment. Their statements on the textgate and noisegate rulings made that very clear. In this case, Brady, Belichick and Kraft made the decision to dig in their heels and deny, deny, deny. They dug their own grave.

But didn't the Wells report even state the Patriots cooperated with the investigation?

It said they cooperated, except for when it mattered most.

As noted herein, this cooperation was subject to an important exception—the refusal by counsel for the Patriots to arrange a requested follow-up interview of Jim McNally by our investigative team.

 

[12punch]

by the way, I LOVE that the Patriots and Brady are fighting this. This may be my favorite Shark Pool thread of all time, I hope the drama continues all year.

Yeah, you salty trolls love your daytime dramas

 

[moleculo]

by the way, I LOVE that the Patriots and Brady are fighting this. This may be my favorite Shark Pool thread of all time, I hope the drama continues all year.

Yeah, you salty trolls love your daytime dramas

please don't respond to me any more. I said yesterday that we could converse as long as you kept it civil...I'm done with you. You have literally brought nothing to the table outside of random insults, name calling, and an outright refusal to accept facts. You are heretofor on my ignore list, I ask you ignore me as well.

ETA: I would also ask everyone else to not quote 12punch, as that limits the effectiveness of the ignore function. TIA.

 

[massraider]

please don't respond to me any more. I said yesterday that we could converse as long as you kept it civil...I'm done with you. You have literally brought nothing to the table outside of random insults, name calling, and an outright refusal to accept facts. You are heretofor on my ignore list, I ask you ignore me as well.


ETA: I would also ask everyone else to not quote 12punch, as that limits the effectiveness of the ignore function. TIA.

Too many other solid Pats fans posting to make it worthy.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Irrational Patriot fanboys right now:

http://media3.giphy.com/media/w9yMDTZuUoCM8/200w_d.gif

 

[Tango]

by the way, I LOVE that the Patriots and Brady are fighting this. This may be my favorite Shark Pool thread of all time, I hope the drama continues all year.

Yeah, you salty trolls love your daytime dramas

please don't respond to me any more. I said yesterday that we could converse as long as you kept it civil...I'm done with you. You have literally brought nothing to the table outside of random insults, name calling, and an outright refusal to accept facts. You are heretofor on my ignore list, I ask you ignore me as well.ETA: I would also ask everyone else to not quote 12punch, as that limits the effectiveness of the ignore function. TIA.

Wise move to bail just before the Wells press conference....

 

[moleculo]

by the way, I LOVE that the Patriots and Brady are fighting this. This may be my favorite Shark Pool thread of all time, I hope the drama continues all year.

Yeah, you salty trolls love your daytime dramas

please don't respond to me any more. I said yesterday that we could converse as long as you kept it civil...I'm done with you. You have literally brought nothing to the table outside of random insults, name calling, and an outright refusal to accept facts. You are heretofor on my ignore list, I ask you ignore me as well.ETA: I would also ask everyone else to not quote 12punch, as that limits the effectiveness of the ignore function. TIA.

Wise move to bail just before the Wells press conference....

I'm not going anywhere. I simply choose to interact with people who are capable of holding adult conversations.

 

[Tango]

by the way, I LOVE that the Patriots and Brady are fighting this. This may be my favorite Shark Pool thread of all time, I hope the drama continues all year.

Yeah, you salty trolls love your daytime dramas

please don't respond to me any more. I said yesterday that we could converse as long as you kept it civil...I'm done with you. You have literally brought nothing to the table outside of random insults, name calling, and an outright refusal to accept facts. You are heretofor on my ignore list, I ask you ignore me as well.ETA: I would also ask everyone else to not quote 12punch, as that limits the effectiveness of the ignore function. TIA.

Wise move to bail just before the Wells press conference....

I'm not going anywhere. I simply choose to interact with people who are capable of holding adult conversations.

Oh yeah, I'm with you on that distinction. I should have clarified.

 

[sho nuff]

by the way, I LOVE that the Patriots and Brady are fighting this. This may be my favorite Shark Pool thread of all time, I hope the drama continues all year.

Yeah, you salty trolls love your daytime dramas

You and other pats fans/supporters seem the be the saltiest ones in this thread.

 

[JohnnyU]

by the way, I LOVE that the Patriots and Brady are fighting this. This may be my favorite Shark Pool thread of all time, I hope the drama continues all year.

Yeah, you salty trolls love your daytime dramas

You sure like salt. You mention it all the time.

 

[Native]

Im hungry.

 

[sho nuff]

Im hungry.

These salty pretzels are making me thirsty!

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Distinguishing Cheating From Chicanery in Tom Brady Mess

MAY 12, 2015

On Pro Football

By JERÉ LONGMAN

It was four decades ago no, the helmets were not still as leathery as the footballs when as a high school center and kicker in Louisianas humid bayou country, I came to believe that slickness of the ball, more than air pressure, affected firmness of grip and certainty of flight.

I have found amusement in stories of footballs being placed in clothes dryers and microwave ovens, scuffed like sneakers and cooked like pizzas, in an attempt to make them more pliant and rocketing.

I was intrigued, too, by how the Colorado Rockies stored their baseballs in a humidor, like cigars, to keep them from drying out and flying too far especially off opponents bats in Denvers thin, mile-high air.

Such manipulation always seemed more like gamesmanship than cheating, more like puckish cunning than underhanded ploy. Perhaps this is why I cannot get worked up over Tom Bradys apparently deliberate use of deflated footballs. His four-game suspension seems to reek more of sanctimony than deceit.

We are shocked, shocked, about delinquent pounds per square inch in New England when we have for decades encouraged and celebrated or at least winked at sports small forgeries and mischievous alterations.

A spitball got Gaylord Perry into the Baseball Hall of Fame. A deliberate handball by Thierry Henry got France into the 2010 World Cup. Phil Jackson and Bill Bradley have admitted to deflating basketballs to gain a competitive edge during the Knicks championship days, carrying needles like hardwood junkies. Somehow, those Knicks represent the height of basketball purity, while Bradys Patriots signify the depths of football puerility.

Please.

The Celtics effectively deflated an entire court with dead spots at the old Boston Garden. For that, they got to hang championship banners like laundry in the rafters, while Brady got hung out to dry.

Bill Russell driving to the basket for the Boston Celtics in a 1957 game against the St. Louis Hawks at the Boston Garden, an arena known for dead spots that gave the Celtics a competitive advantage.

By all means, lets suspend Bill Belichick for deflating his personality into a boorish snarl. And feel free to bench the dull Brady for being the least interesting man in the world. But to punish him for furtive shrewdness seems hypocritical instead of righteous.

Under current N.F.L. rules, balls can be brushed, rubbed with dirt, slathered with leather conditioner, run through a carwash and taken to a dog groomer to enhance a quarterbacks grip. O.K., the carwash and dog grooming arent allowed.

As far as we know.

But all this permissible primping essentially encourages teams to push the envelope to see what they can get away with, Steve Beuerlein, a former N.F.L. quarterback, told CBSSports.com in January when the deflating scandal went viral.

Every team tampers with the footballs, the former quarterback Matt Leinart wrote on Twitter at the time. Ask any QB In the league, this is ridiculous!!

And speaking of influencing the ball, can we talk about receivers and their friction-inducing gloves? Sure, Odell Beckham Jr. of the Giants made a fantastic catch last season, one for the ages, but he wore gloves that seemed to have the grip of radial tires. Are these gloves substantially less performance-enhancing than a deflated ball?

Some of the critics decrying Brady are the same ones who once lionized Lester Hayes, the former Raiders cornerback, who built a Pro Bowl career in the 1980s in part by wearing so much Stickum that he seemed to have broken into a hive and covered himself in honey.

Tom Brady suspended 4 games ... Thats just ridiculous, Giants punter Steve Weatherford wrote on Twitter. They are comparing it to steroid use. Preposterous!

Good point. Perhaps we need to pay less attention to artificially deflated footballs and more attention to artificially inflated players and the impact their increased size and speed have on concussions.

The suspension of Brady seems to involve a misguided sense of proportion by N.F.L. Commissioner Roger Goodell. Heavily criticized for doing too little when confronted with domestic violence, Goodell seems to be overcompensating and doing too much when confronted with mere chicanery.

This also seems to be a kind of career achievement punishment for the Patriots, who previously stole defensive signals from the Jets during the 2007 season. (Why is stealing signs in baseball considered crafty and in football corrupt?) But lets be honest. Teams in all sports will take whatever advantages they can get.

Some pump in fake crowd noise. And theyre not alone. Remember when CBS acknowledged piping in bird sounds at golf tournaments?

Brad Johnson, the former Buccaneers quarterback, told The Tampa Bay Times that he paid $7,500 to ball boys to break in the footballs before the Super Bowl in the 2002 season. He spoke of the balls being roughed up and taken care of, as if they had reneged on a gambling debt. The plan apparently worked as Tampa Bay routed Oakland, 48-21.

And it once again reminded us that sport is in the business of developing characters, not character.

 

[Tango]

Wells throwing salt on the wounds. Sounds like the Pats got off easy.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Hot takes thread is over there.

 

[Tango]

Wells throwing salt on the wounds. Sounds like the Pats got off easy.

These dots are not connecting in a favorable way for the Pats:

"@BenVolin: Wells said he only interviewed McNally once. And when he discovered the Deflator text, #Patriots refused to make McNally available"

 

[massraider]

Ted Wells' media conference call was only missing one thing: Him yelling out, 'Sexual Chocolate!', and dropping the mic.

He just went nuclear.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Wells throwing salt on the wounds. Sounds like the Pats got off easy.

These dots are not connecting in a favorable way for the Pats:

"@BenVolin: Wells said he only interviewed McNally once. And when he discovered the Deflator text, #Patriots refused to make McNally available"

Woah. Guess that explains the first round pick.

 

[espnespn]

I think there's plenty of doubt whether the refs in general took PSI measurements very seriously. In addition to the video, I believe there were other stories of refs doing a "squeeze test":

http://larrybrownsports.com/football/could-nfl-be-covering-for-officials-deflategate/253333.

Also, the texts between the 2 Patriots equipment guys say that there was a 16 PSI ball in the Jets game. How did that happen, unless the refs weren't careful about PSI?

So, what the employees text is reliable? Please tell me that you are arguing that they are factual, not jokes, and not hyperbole, because that is really not going to help your arguments in the long run.

Well, some of the texts appear to be jokes, while others seem to be talking about actual events. I have no idea how reliable they are, although you seem to be.

Even if you assume they are reliable, they don't show post-inspection deflation. In fact, they suggest pre-inspection deflation, otherwise the 16 PSI would not have happened.

 

[massraider]

Wells throwing salt on the wounds. Sounds like the Pats got off easy.

These dots are not connecting in a favorable way for the Pats:

"@BenVolin: Wells said he only interviewed McNally once. And when he discovered the Deflator text, #Patriots refused to make McNally available"

Woah. Guess that explains the first round pick.

Yep. Wells said that NFL Security interviewed The Deflator three times.

Pats urged him to start fresh. They said that NFL Security was biased ( )

He starts fresh. After the first interview, he discovered the ESPN text. He wanted to confront McNally.

Pats refused, and refused to even tell McNally that Wells wanted to talk to him.

Report comes out, Pats make it sound like Wells interviewed The Deflator 4 times.

Brutal.

Wells Dropping Bombs.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

After all the non-cooperating I'm shocked the penalty wasn't more severe.

 

[Anarchy99]

Wells throwing salt on the wounds. Sounds like the Pats got off easy.

These dots are not connecting in a favorable way for the Pats:

"@BenVolin: Wells said he only interviewed McNally once. And when he discovered the Deflator text, #Patriots refused to make McNally available"

Woah. Guess that explains the first round pick.

To clarify what happened (again, I am not providing an opinion, just a clarification), the Pats made a good faith effort to cooperate with the investigation. They provided the league will all sorts of video tape for on and off the field activities and from cameras inside the stadium. They presented their many employees for countless interviews (and many people did hand over their cell phones and emails). They complied with everything the league requested except for three things. They didn't hand over Brady's phone (although he apparently was interviewed for close to six and a half hours). They didn't hand over kicker Stephen Gostkowski's phone. And they did not let the league follow up with McNally again.

However, he was interviewed four times. Three by the league's security personnel and once by Wells (or his team). McNally was a part time worker who had a regular job (and had no business being at the stadium by that point), and the team opted not to have to pull him out of his job for a fifth time.

 

[massraider]

However, he was interviewed four times. Three by the league's security personnel and once by Wells (or his team). McNally was a part time worker who had a regular job (and had no business being at the stadium by that point), and the team opted not to have to pull him out of his job for a fifth time.

Gosh, that was swell of them. Clearly, they didn't want him to lose any money (aside from after firing him themselves, for doing nothing wrong, I guess?)

Unfortunately, Wells said he would meet him in New Hampshire, where he lived, morning, noon, or night.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Calling it right now... the Patriots and Brady don't sue anyone. Last thing any of these guys want is to make the jumps from "lying" to "perjury" and "uncooperative" to "obstruction of justice."

 

[massraider]

Wells also said he was never going to take anyone's phone.

He requested email and text data, which Yee could vet himself. So the previous theory that Brady was saving naughty messages or photos from his famous wife was also blown out of the water.

Brady still refused.

 

[Anarchy99]

Wells also said he was never going to take anyone's phone.

He requested email and text data, which Yee could vet himself. So the previous theory that Brady was saving naughty messages or photos from his famous wife was also blown out of the water.

Brady still refused.

I still don't fully understand the texting part. With or without Brady's phone or texts, wouldn't they have shown up on twiddle dee and twiddle dum's phones anyway?

 

[BroadwayG]

To clarify what happened (again, I am not providing an opinion, just a clarification), the Pats made a good faith effort to cooperate with the investigation. They provided the league will all sorts of video tape for on and off the field activities and from cameras inside the stadium. They presented their many employees for countless interviews (and many people did hand over their cell phones and emails). They complied with everything the league requested except for three things. They didn't hand over Brady's phone (although he apparently was interviewed for close to six and a half hours). They didn't hand over kicker Stephen Gostkowski's phone. And they did not let the league follow up with McNally again.

However, he was interviewed four times. Three by the league's security personnel and once by Wells (or his team). McNally was a part time worker who had a regular job (and had no business being at the stadium by that point), and the team opted not to have to pull him out of his job for a fifth time.

Is there another definition of countless that I am not aware of?

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Wells also said he was never going to take anyone's phone.

He requested email and text data, which Yee could vet himself. So the previous theory that Brady was saving naughty messages or photos from his famous wife was also blown out of the water.

Brady still refused.

I still don't fully understand the texting part. With or without Brady's phone or texts, wouldn't they have shown up on twiddle dee and twiddle dum's phones anyway?

What if Tom discussed it with someone else?

 

[dutch]

Wells also said he was never going to take anyone's phone.

He requested email and text data, which Yee could vet himself. So the previous theory that Brady was saving naughty messages or photos from his famous wife was also blown out of the water.

Brady still refused.

I still don't fully understand the texting part. With or without Brady's phone or texts, wouldn't they have shown up on twiddle dee and twiddle dum's phones anyway?

What if Tom discussed it with someone else?

shhhh...

 

[12punch]

We all know the deflating of footballs had nothing to do with the outcome of the Colts game,

 

[massraider]

Wells also said he was never going to take anyone's phone.

He requested email and text data, which Yee could vet himself. So the previous theory that Brady was saving naughty messages or photos from his famous wife was also blown out of the water.

Brady still refused.

I still don't fully understand the texting part. With or without Brady's phone or texts, wouldn't they have shown up on twiddle dee and twiddle dum's phones anyway?

What if Tom discussed it with someone else?

One advantage to being Tommy Small Hands is that he's an exceptional text messager.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Wells also said he was never going to take anyone's phone.

He requested email and text data, which Yee could vet himself. So the previous theory that Brady was saving naughty messages or photos from his famous wife was also blown out of the water.

Brady still refused.

I still don't fully understand the texting part. With or without Brady's phone or texts, wouldn't they have shown up on twiddle dee and twiddle dum's phones anyway?

What if Tom discussed it with someone else?

shhhh...

I know, right?

I mean... what if it was found out that Brady had confirmed the story to Bellichik prior to the "process" presser? Or that Robert Kraft knew months ago what his QB did?

Wouldn't look so hot for team denial.

 

[GoBirds]

Wells throwing salt on the wounds. Sounds like the Pats got off easy.

These dots are not connecting in a favorable way for the Pats:

"@BenVolin: Wells said he only interviewed McNally once. And when he discovered the Deflator text, #Patriots refused to make McNally available"

Pats fans....I'm sure there is a logical explanation for this.

 

[Anarchy99]

Wells also said he was never going to take anyone's phone.

He requested email and text data, which Yee could vet himself. So the previous theory that Brady was saving naughty messages or photos from his famous wife was also blown out of the water.

Brady still refused.

I still don't fully understand the texting part. With or without Brady's phone or texts, wouldn't they have shown up on twiddle dee and twiddle dum's phones anyway?

What if Tom discussed it with someone else?

My point was, if they had the phones from the other folks that were there, they would have captured Brady's communication with the people that were on the field or the locker room. Are you suggesting that Brady snuck someone into the locker room with no credentials that no one knew about and got that person all access to the field and stadium?

 

[massraider]

Wells throwing salt on the wounds. Sounds like the Pats got off easy.

These dots are not connecting in a favorable way for the Pats:

"@BenVolin: Wells said he only interviewed McNally once. And when he discovered the Deflator text, #Patriots refused to make McNally available"

Pats fans....I'm sure there is a logical explanation for this.

They thought McNally had been through enough.

......then they fired him.

 

[Native]

Ben Volin ‏@BenVolin 56s57 seconds ago
Wells said he used “more probable than not” because that’s the NFL’s standard. If he were on a jury, he would’ve checked, “guilty”

 

[12punch]

The point is they didn't take that aspect of their duties very seriously, and it's likely the NFL never asked them to either (perhaps for very good reasons--do we really care about the specific air pressure of a football?--but nonetheless).

When it became a big enough issue to send in investigators, suddenly now it became important for the NFL to pretend it was serious: all the better to lay down the law and credibly punish the Patriots.

and, we have come full circle. Just because the NFL may not have taken air pressure seriously in the past does not give Patriot team employees latitude to manipulate pressure on balls after they have been inspected and certified.

You really do like to jump to extremes don't you? It's somewhat more forgivable to break a rule no one takes seriously, that doesn't mean it's totally forgivable. That's not a complicated point dude.

air-pressure in game balls - not taken seriously.

tampering with certified, legal game equipment - very serious.

Please understand this key point. The patriots did not attempt to sneak in non-conforming equipment and hope the refs missed it on inspection, like allegedly Aaron Rodgers did. If that's all there was, no crime. That's not what happened here.

If tampering with certified game equipment, specifically game balls, was taken so seriously, why was it common for team employees to loiter in the ref's locker room alone with the certified game balls for 15-20 minutes while the refs were on the field doing their pregame?

because it never occurred to the league that someone would be so brazen as to cheat in this manner?also, can you provide a link as to where this is common? Because that's pretty much the opposite of what the Wells report says.

That's exactly what the Wells report says.

The relevant link is, you guessed it, the Wells report: http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/photo/2015/05/06/0ap3000000491381.pdf

Page 62, footnote 34:

"The game officials we interviewedwhen considering the potential for tampering with the game ballsalmost uniformly expressed greater concern that a locker room attendant generally has up to fifteen or twenty minutes alone with the game balls when the game officials are on the field for the pre-game walk-through approximately fifty minutes before kickoff (and after the balls have been inspected)."

* * * * *

"Because it never occurred to the league that somebody would be so brazen as to cheat in this manner?"

Yeah, that's absurd.

Burn

Sounds like somebody's ignorant of the subject material.

Maybe they should actually read the report they've offered so many opinions on

 

[Anarchy99]

Brady does not strike me as the kind of a guy that is going to spend his time texting field day personnel or locker room attendants on a regular basis. He seems more like the type that would call people (of which they have records of already). BB strikes me as the type that may not text (although from past history it sounds like players have texted him before).

 

[massraider]

Kraft welcomed Wells' involvement.

Wells also said that if Don Yee has the copious note he kept during the interview, that he encourages Yee to release them. Bam!

Your move, Yee.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Calling it right now... the Patriots and Brady don't sue anyone. Last thing any of these guys want is to make the jumps from "lying" to "perjury" and "uncooperative" to "obstruction of justice."

I totally agree. If this ends up in court, Brady will HAVE to hand over his phone then. No way he follows through.

Brady, Kraft and Yee are making this so much worse with their outrage. Wells and the NFL are going to destroy them.

 

[Bucky86]

Ben Volin ‏@BenVolin 56s57 seconds ago
Wells said he used “more probable than not” because that’s the NFL’s standard. If he were on a jury, he would’ve checked, “guilty”

But thats not what the report said!! THEREFORE Terrific Tom is innocent!!!!!!!!!!

 

[massraider]

Brady, Kraft and Yee are making this so much worse with their outrage. Wells and the NFL are going to destroy them.

Made it worse with the lying, worse with the cover up, and worse with the outrage.

 

[Shutout]

I think we should start talking about the real important thing here: Why does this rule even exist?

In this article http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25182370/dwight-clark-kindly-asks-you-not-compare-tom-brady-to-joe-Montana

Joe Montana, himself, calls it a stupid rule because all QBs have different grips and different preferences for the football and he says we would see the NFL at its best if they simply allowed QBs to pick their own balls on offense.

I'd never considered that but it makes a lot of sense. Why wouldn't we want to see the best product the NFL has to offer? Making everyone play at the same standard for this piece of equipment would be akin to making everyone wear a size 12 cleat, regardless if it was the best fit for THEM or not. Do they all wear the same size jock straps, helmets, thigh pads? No.

Picking your preference of ball wouldn't hurt the other team's QB. He is going to have HIS own ball...which he practiced with HIS OWN receivers and so they will all be in sync. If there is an argument for the defense having to adjust, so be it. That IS football. You adjust to the scat back. You adjust to the Power back. The slot receiver, the 2 TEs. That IS football and I would much rather see the finest possibly tuned offense as I could (and I love defense...I just think the overall product is better when you have competent offenses).

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Would you have felt better had they done so? Would you have believed what they wrote? The ref had a specific duty, to bring any ball lower than 12.5 PSI up to that limit. this was done. The ref can testify to this with sincerity and certainty. writing it down would not change the strength of that testimony one iota. Now had the process been video'd, maybe that would offer some small scintilla of greater assurance, but many would question whether the video produced was the video from that day. Apologists have offered this red herring before. You were in the thread at the time. You continue to off4er tired excuses, hoping to convince who, yourself? Good luck with that.

I like how you state things that are unproven with authority, like: "The ref has a specific duty, to bring any ball lower than 12.5 PSI up to that limit. This was done."

Yes, assuming the conclusion makes the conclusion correct. QED.

I assume this is so since the refs, as you and others have stated by implying this was a sting, knew and were specifically admonished to do so, an extraordinary event in the life of a ref, and for a playoff game, specifically remembers that he did so. Testimony, and circumstances for remembering are sound evidence. Again, I know there is no proof for you which will satisfy your unwillingness to listen and learn. In fact I was responding to a post specifically about a complained lack of diligence and was raising the question of whether the diligence some would have artificially placed on the process would make an iota of difference in the reliability of the testimony.

I realize from your posting in this thread that much of this goes over your head. That is to be expected when one's head is alternately up their ### or buried in the sand, but do try to keep up.

 

[Bucky86]

Are our resident Pat knob lickers still here?