Anarchy99
Footballguy
I'm not convinced that SG backed off wanting a new contract (or more money for this year) as part of moving to another team. If he was willing to play on his existing deal, NE would not have traded him.
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Patriots Trade Stephon Gilmore to Panthers (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Anarchy99
- Start date
sho nuff
Footballguy
Maybe so. I think a couple things with that. NE isn't convinced he is healthy. They knew this was it for them with Gilmore this year and wanted to get anything they could for him.
Even with what I had posted...GB, if they think the guy will be healthy enough, was stupid not to restructure someone to get him in to fit their cap.
Zach Wilson had a good game in week 1, and the Cowboys just ran for over 250 yards. They beat the Saints and Texans.
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Capella
Footballguy
Darnold is enough of an X factor to not take them serious next to the likes of Green Bay or KC. Maybe they’re a 6 or 7 seed. I’m not saying they can’t make the playoffs, just that I’m glad he didn’t go to a true contender.
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SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
I think he could play today if he wanted and once he feels CAR has made a $ commitment to him you will see him on the field.
RUSF18
Footballguy
Maybe they should have been willing to accept less than the 1st round pick and a player they were looking for in a deal not even a year ago.
This shouldn't be untrue. Teams have to file paperwork.
I don't like this at all.
Further, if GB or TB contacted, then they tampered and they were following the rules.
I feel like the world doesn't know the Panthers have an impressive D and now he'll get credit for turning them around.
Someone needs to tell them McCaff doesn't need the ball 500 times in one game and that Anderson can catch the ball and they're a formidable team.
This is a pretty big deal.
Someone needs to tell them McCaff doesn't need the ball 500 times in one game and that Anderson can catch the ball and they're a formidable team.
This is a pretty big deal.
Boston
Footballguy
Gilmore’s contract with the Pats was interesting…it was a record-setting deal at the time and it was also front-loaded so unlike many big deals he actually made every dollar…it has bothered me a little as a Pats fan that he was complaining about what his number is now (and last year) because the reality is that was a benefit to him…that being said he did a real good job here and helped them win a title…he reminds me of Ty Law and Revis in that he is a big time CB and he is not gonna leave a dollar on the table…if he is healthy and can play close to what he was in 2019 that is an excellent addition to a dangerous Panthers team…and I also look forward to BB drafting a long snapper or someone from a military academy with that 6th round pick.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
As long as Gilmore plays out the contract he signed with NE (but in CAR instead), Gilmore would qualify for a potential compensatory pick.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
We don't know what we don't know. Maybe Gilmore will be healthy, happy, and engaged in Carolina. From the sound of things, he was none of those currently in NE. Even though the Pats chipped in a $5 million advance last year, SG wasn't really thrilled that he didn't get a new contract, had COVID and injury issues, and didn't play all that well when he did suit up. Maybe he wasn't into it with NE not in contention last year.
In the battle of wills, NE wanted to see Gilmore on the field to see how healthy he was. Gilmore essentially said give me a new deal and then I will play. This dance has been going on for months. He did well in NE. We'll have to see if he is the still the player he was 2-3 years ago or if he will start looking like a 31 year old CB, has lost a step, and with a limited shelf life.
But does the fact he sat for half the season water down the pick. Meaning, if he played at high level all season it is a third, but playing high level half the season it’s a sixth?
Anarchy99
Footballguy
No. The compensatory pick determination will be based on his average annual value of the new contract he signs as a free agent (assuming he doesn't re-sign or get extended by Carolina). What he does this year has nothing to do with it. (It also would depend on whether the Panthers sign a comparable free agent, which would cancel out the pick they would be due for Gilmore.)
So in a round about way, if NE did nothing at all with Gilmore, they could have qualified for a 3rd round compensatory pick for losing him after this season (if he signed a new contract on a different team for enough money to qualify at the 3rd round level).
higgins
Footballguy
Boston
Footballguy
I have zero issues with the Pats not giving him a new deal…at his age and where the Pats currently are that money can be put to better use…would have liked to get one more year out of him or a little more back in the trade but it is time to move on.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Listening to the talk on the radio, they were not big fans of Bill today. Should have got a first for Gilmore earlier. Could have had the #4 overall pick for Jimmy G from Cleveland. Lost the GOAT for nothing. Drafted a team of bums and have had terrible drafts for years. Currently with a 1-3 record and the team in shambles. Bill clearly has lost a few MPH off his fastball.
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I’m glad I stopped listening to them. I’m sure they would say Sox suck and somehow they have no business playing in the playoffs. I listen to early addition to Curran and Perry. But if Felger comes on I flip channel.
Bill needs over 30 wins to catch Don Shula. At the current pace it could take 4 or 5 years. He says he enjoys coaching, but another losing season could change his mind.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
classic media response.
minus a fumble and a field goal hitting the uprights, the record is 3-1 with a rookie qb. strength of schedule suggests the record could be 7-3 or 6-4 in 6 weeks. the defense is high functioning and just held the bucs to 19 points and brady to zero passing tds.
but the wannabes and monday morning quarterbacks want to cry about how BB manages payroll. congrats boston, you've devolved to the same whiny media presence that has toxified new york and philly for years.
Don’t say congrats Boston or New England… we don’t want these chitty media types.
Yeah I don't understand the outrage. We've seen this movie before.
The guy was 31, coming off an injury, on the back 9 for sure, and there are no cap dollars.
Lucky they got a sixth for him.
Sure they could have traded him last year and I'm sure they explored it, but the injury kinda fouled that all up.
greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
Maybe I missed this but-- Is Gilmore actually going to play under his current deal in CAR? Is CAR going to give him the raise he seemingly "required" to suit up and hit the field in NE? Otherwise, why make the deal? Is CAR merely speculating that SG feels better about playing for CAR than he did about playing for NE? What am I missing?
pantherclub
Footballguy
Yes, I think its been reported he is going to play this out and hopefully re-up with Carolina in the offseason
greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
Thank you. That's super irritating as a NE fan. Not like NE hasn't capitalized on this type of thing in the past so, whatever I guess. Nevertheless, leaving me with not good feelings for SG despite feeling grateful for his excellent play for years. Onward and (someday) upward.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Its a common dynamic. Gilmore's market value exceeded what NE was willing to pay. Both sides, if behaving maturely, should harbor no ill will for a player parting ways.
It's also common for some of these players to come back. Jamie Collins, hi!
Anarchy99
Footballguy
As of yesterday, SG did not demand a new contract “for now.” I don’t know what that means. It’s still a few weeks until he can play. I am not sure the issue is behind us.
I don’t think he was happy playing on his contract last year, and his effort and availability likely reflected that. I am not sure he will give 110% until he gets a new contract.
higgins said:
He's a long time Patriots guy that follows the team closely. I'm always interested in what folks think. 
Does that seem surprising?
Anarchy99
Footballguy
After exploring more, it's clear that there has been a standoff for months. NE didn't want to give SG more money until he showed he could play. SG wouldn't play until he got more money. There appears to be some debate in terms of how healthy Gilmore is. Some say he is fine, others are not as sure.Joe Bryant said:
Since he was not on the opening day roster, his contract for this year was not guaranteed. So NE saves 14/18ths of his 2021 salary. It allowed them to bring in Jamie Collins and gives them a little cap room left over should they need it down the road.
Had NE started the year 3-1 instead of 1-3, they might have been more willing to keep trying to work things out with Gilmore. IMO, they are worse without him, but NE was not going to break the bank for a 31-year-old CB coming off an injury that still wants a big money contract.
It remains to be seen if Gilmore is healthy, if he is still the guy that was DPOY, and if he is happy and willing to give 100% effort on the field. I don't think the matter is settled, as it doesn't make sense he would play for CAR on the same low salary he refused to play for in NE. If the Panthers get the 2020 version of Gilmore, they will be disappointed.
This puts pressure on NE to extend JC Jackson, as he is also scheduled to become a FA next season.
themeistersinger
Footballguy
I think Bellichick views the seasons the same way I do for fantasy football - if you win the Super Bowl, then the season is a win, and if you lose the Super Bowl, regardless of any other playoffs or records or whatever, it's a loss. The Patriots are not winning any Super Bowls this season, so might as well move on and build for next year.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The reason some people are raking BB over the coals is they weren't going to win anything last year, why not trade Gilmore when he had more value? In hindsight, they weren't going to win with the roster they had and they weren't going to extend him with another big contract, so why not trade SG after his DPOY award and max out his value? BB would never punt a season before it even started, but they could have gotten more than a 6th round pick if they moved Gilmore earlier.
As already pointed out, NE potentially was 2 plays from being 3-1 at this point (a Harris fumble at the 10 yard line against MIA and the Folk FG that hit the goal post against TB). There are lots of ways to look at things, and one world view is they are close to becoming a good team. Others will say they are a long way from being a competitive team.
I still am in the camp that NE could go on a run and make the playoffs . . . or they could continue to be their own worst enemy and spin their wheels all season. Neither one would really surprise me at this point.
