Pats Finalizing Trade of Richard Seymour To Oakland (1 Viewer)

[Kit Fisto]

Well, I wasn't that arrogant about Slash...at least, not after the first year or two. But however arrogant Steeler fans may get, we don't hold a candle to the Patriot fans .

Ummm, yeah you kinda do...

 

[Kit Fisto]

Assuming this creates an opportunity for the Pats to sign Mankins and Wilfork long term I really like the deal. I think Oakland didn't get fleeced like many are saying as Sey still has some gas left in the tank and will be playing for a new contract. The additions of Pryor and Brace thru the draft made this whole thing possible. The Pats seem to have done well with those two even though it's early. They seem to have a knack for drafting DL, I'm hoping we can say the same about DB which to me is the big ? right now.

Its not that the Patriots have a knack for drafting good linemen. They just draft a lot of linemen. Just about every single draft is spent adding depth and talent to the lines. I really really wish the Browns would figure that out. Since the Browns re-entered the NFL in 1999, they've drafted WR more than anything else. Took two MORE WRs in the second round last April. They don't understand the NFL is about blocking and tackling.

They do draft alot of DL as they understand the value they represent. And they do have a knack for hitting on the DL they do draft, even in late rounds with very few busts.

Winning football teams are built from the trenches out.

 

[Raider Nation]

Unlikely it'll be a top 5 pick. OAK picked 7th this year, and I can't see them getting worse with good young talent in a bad division.

I can. Of course I also don't think they have good young talent.

Making fun of the Raiders is one thing. I've come to accept that around here. Claiming they have no young talent is plain stupid.

Well, they have alot of fast people. That doesnt necessarily equal NFL talent though. And their QB has a strong arm, too.

BUMP to see if this guy still thinks the Raiders have no young talent.

 

[dparker713]

Unlikely it'll be a top 5 pick. OAK picked 7th this year, and I can't see them getting worse with good young talent in a bad division.

I can. Of course I also don't think they have good young talent.

Making fun of the Raiders is one thing. I've come to accept that around here. Claiming they have no young talent is plain stupid.

Well, they have alot of fast people. That doesnt necessarily equal NFL talent though. And their QB has a strong arm, too.

BUMP to see if this guy still thinks the Raiders have no young talent.

Well, their QB is still as horrid as I thought.I was rather impressed by their line play to start the game and their Dline pretty much throughout. I wouldnt really call their Oline young, though, and Seymore is no spring chicken. I will say, that against a decently coached team, they're going to get killed. Their offense is completely limited by Russel's lack of accuracy and their defense will not be able to so basic against better schemes. He'll, I can come up with game plans right now that would torch single high man coverage.

 

[Casting Couch]

I can. Of course I also don't think they have good young talent.

Making fun of the Raiders is one thing. I've come to accept that around here. Claiming they have no young talent is plain stupid.

Well, they have alot of fast people. That doesnt necessarily equal NFL talent though. And their QB has a strong arm, too.

BUMP to see if this guy still thinks the Raiders have no young talent.

Well, their QB is still as horrid as I thought.I was rather impressed by their line play to start the game and their Dline pretty much throughout. I wouldnt really call their Oline young, though, and Seymore is no spring chicken. I will say, that against a decently coached team, they're going to get killed. Their offense is completely limited by Russel's lack of accuracy and their defense will not be able to so basic against better schemes. He'll, I can come up with game plans right now that would torch single high man coverage.

Davis is building a solid nucleus, but they will rue the day they let Jeff Garcia walk.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Anyone think Seymour would have been a help this year on the suddenly average Patriots defense?

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Anyone think Seymour would have been a help this year on the suddenly average Patriots defense?

me

 

[kaa]

Anyone think Seymour would have been a help this year on the suddenly average Patriots defense?

me

I'm willing to give Belichick the benefit of the doubt, especially considering the season isn't even over.

 

[Ravens]

Anybody from OAK like this trade now?

Rent a guy for a year, have a horrible year and give away a 2011 1st rounder!

So does Seymore go back to NE during the offseason?

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

Maybe. Of course he wasn't too happy with the way NE tied him up in a sack and tossed him on a westbound train.

Oakland might also offer him more money.

I still don't think this was such a bad trade.

 

[David Yudkin]

So does Seymore go back to NE during the offseason?

No. The Pats dumped him because they knew they couldn't afford him once he was a FA and for the most part felt he was not the difference maker he was earlier in his career. With everyone else the Pats need to re-sign/extend, no way do they reach out to Seymour unless he 1) is willing to play for peanuts and 2) has forgiven the Pats for slapping him in the face by sending him to Oakland. With neither of those very likely to happen, don't expect Seymour back in NE.

 

[Ravens]

I still don't think this was such a bad trade.

Great trade for NE.Horrible for OAK.

 

[by_the_sea_wannabe]

I still don't think this was such a bad trade.

Great trade for NE.Horrible for OAK.

good trade for NEunless they win the bowl without him

 

[David Yudkin]

I still don't think this was such a bad trade.

Great trade for NE.Horrible for OAK.

good trade for NEunless they win the bowl without him

I doubt they were going to win with or without him.

 

[BlackMagic10]

PFW.com

There apparently were some talks about a contract extension for DRE Richard Seymour during the season, but the Raiders were unable to get close to serious negotiations, and observers in Oakland say it's clear that Seymour wants to play for a different team in 2010. He's said to be very aware that he'll receive the franchise tag this offseason if no long-term deal is worked out.

 

[David Yudkin]

Raiders defensive end Richard Seymour said there's no going home for him.

Defensive end Richard Seymour, an unrestricted free agent, is willing to sign with any team in the NFL but one -- and no, he's not dissing the Raiders.

Seymour told Comcast Sports the only team off his list is the Patriots, who stunned him with a trade to Oakland one week before the season opener.

"There's probably about 31 teams I'd consider going to," Seymour said. "(The Patriots) isn't something I'm looking to do at all."

Of course, Seymour likely won't get the chance to explore anything out of the 510 area code. The Raiders gave up a 2011 first-round pick for his services. There is no way they let him walk after one season, in which he became a Pro Bowl alternate.

Seymour will almost certainly get the franchise tag or transition tag if he does not agree to a long-term deal. If 2010 is indeed uncapped, teams get one franchise and two transition tags, instead of the normal one tag.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/raider...4#ixzz0cRqb6NE8

 

[Green and Gold]

I still don't think this was such a bad trade.

Great trade for NE.Horrible for OAK.

good trade for NEunless they win the bowl without him

I doubt they were going to win with or without him.

The problem wasn't so much the defense as the offense.

 

[The Comedian]

Still a terrible trade for OAK.

 

[Raider Nation]

Anyone who still thinks this was a "horrible" trade for Oakland isn't paying attention.Seymour is KILLING everyone who lines up against him. He's a force against the run and the pass. Not to mention that 1st-round pick New England got for him is now looking like it will be a middle-of-the-pack selection instead of the Top-5 pick many predicted.

"In the run game," Todd Haley told reporters on Monday, "the Oakland Raiders did a very good job inside, specifically Seymour. I know I don't talk about other players a whole bunch but he really was a problem for us yesterday. Richard Seymour, he's a great player. That's one of those things that we need to learn form. "We can't allow a top player to disrupt our game plan as much as he was able to do that. It was throughout the game and it caused us problems even late in the game when we were trying to run out the clock."Seymour was a significant factor on Sunday. It seemed that the announcers were consistently calling his name as he disrupted the backfield. Haley referenced Seymour's tackle behind the line of scrimmage late in the game as a critical play, even suggesting the Chiefs were lucky that Seymour didn't steal the hand off.Richard Seymour was the leader of a defense that slowed down the Chiefs. The good thing for the Chiefs is that, while the Raiders created a blueprint of sorts to beat the Chiefs, not every team has a Richard Seymour to help them out.

 

[BassNBrew]

Anyone who still thinks this was a "horrible" trade for Oakland isn't paying attention.Seymour is KILLING everyone who lines up against him. He's a force against the run and the pass. Not to mention that 1st-round pick New England got for him is now looking like it will be a middle-of-the-pack selection instead of the Top-5 pick many predicted.

"In the run game," Todd Haley told reporters on Monday, "the Oakland Raiders did a very good job inside, specifically Seymour. I know I don't talk about other players a whole bunch but he really was a problem for us yesterday. Richard Seymour, he's a great player. That's one of those things that we need to learn form. "We can't allow a top player to disrupt our game plan as much as he was able to do that. It was throughout the game and it caused us problems even late in the game when we were trying to run out the clock."Seymour was a significant factor on Sunday. It seemed that the announcers were consistently calling his name as he disrupted the backfield. Haley referenced Seymour's tackle behind the line of scrimmage late in the game as a critical play, even suggesting the Chiefs were lucky that Seymour didn't steal the hand off.Richard Seymour was the leader of a defense that slowed down the Chiefs. The good thing for the Chiefs is that, while the Raiders created a blueprint of sorts to beat the Chiefs, not every team has a Richard Seymour to help them out.

Haley is an idiot. If he had flipped the Charles/Jones touches, the Chiefs would have won this game.And yes, it's still a bad trade.

 

[Raider Nation]

And yes, it's still a bad trade.

For the Pats?If Seymour was still in New England, think they would have held Hillis to 180 yards rushing?

 

[The Comedian]

Anyone who still thinks this was a "horrible" trade for Oakland isn't paying attention.

Yeah why would people not pay attention to Oakland? Still a horrible, horrible trade.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Haley is an idiot. If he had flipped the Charles/Jones touches, the Chiefs would have won this game.And yes, it's still a bad trade.

Did you watch the game? Charles is a little guy. He was getting crushed into the ground in the second half. He didn't have any resolve left late in that game.Chiefs RB's combined were 29/85 for a 2.93 ypc. I know that Charles was good early on, but his last run, he was slow getting up. The interior run defense, especially Tommy Kelly, took away the run game. Haley isn't an idiot. The Raiders had a banged up secondary. He was right to try to attack it. Fortunately for the Raiders that Bowe and Cassel are not Wayne/Manning.That was an awesome trade! Big Rich Seymour is going to be a probowler, and is the leader of a playoff hopeful team. And the Pats get a pick in the mid 20's. Sounds like an excellent deal for the Raiders.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Anyone who still thinks this was a "horrible" trade for Oakland isn't paying attention.

Yeah why would people not pay attention to Oakland? Still a horrible, horrible trade.

You don't watch Oakland right? So you have a perfect vantage point of the situation out there right?Is there any other opinions you'd like to share that you know nothing about?

 

[Burstnbloom]

And yes, it's still a bad trade.

For the Pats?If Seymour was still in New England, think they would have held Hillis to 180 yards rushing?

This is irrelevant isn't it considering Seymour was only under contract for LAST year when the trade was made? His performance this season could be for any team, but it most likely would not have been for the Patriots had they opted not to trade him and they certainly wouldn't have received a mid first for him if they traded him with the tag on.

 

[bostonfred]

I didn't like losing Seymour and I don't like the fact that the Raiders are doing well this year and making that a worse pick. The Pats haven't said it publicly, but when Brady went down, I think they looked at a two year window for him to recover fully, and the CBA issues, and decided that they would make their next run starting in 2011. An extra first from Oakland was more valuable to that plan than an unhappy and aging Seymour who demanded to be paid like one of the top players in the league, especially when his play had fallen off while he was in New England.

Similarly, it was clear that Oakland was trying to win now when they gave up a future first round pick for an older player who had been dinged up but was a disruptor on defense to go along with Awesome wah and a great locker room presence, then added the best available QB the year that they had given up the pick. And I think that the whole team sees that signal, and while they've been playing under their ability in the past, they may be playing a bit over their heads because they know that they have nothing to lose by going 7-9 instead of 5-11 or 4-12.

I'm happy for Seymour that he's rejuvenated by the move, and I hope he has success in the future, because he was a huge part of the Patriots title runs in the past. I'm not sure why anyone in New England would feel differently - there's nothing wrong with calling it a win for the Raiders. They don't get a lot of opportunties to get a single player who could have the impact he's had, and bring playoff tested, championship experience to the worst division in football. Al doesn't have a lot of time left on this earth and while I'm not a huge fan, he's been unfairly maligned over the years. This was a great time for them to try to make a run and if it weren't for the draft pick implications, I'd be rooting for them this year.

 

[switz]

The Pats haven't said it publicly, but when Brady went down, I think they looked at a two year window for him to recover fully, and the CBA issues, and decided that they would make their next run starting in 2011.

They probably haven't said that because it doesn't sound reasonable.

 

[dharmapunk]

It definitely looks more like an even trade now. The Pats weren't willing to invest the money to keep Seymour around long term, so they got a middle first rounder for him.

Oakland needed a great, experienced player to anchor their D-line and especially lead a talented but young defense. From most accounts, Seymour has done that. Granted, he's an aging player and may only have 1 or 2 years of high level play left, but he's clearly been part of Oakland's turnaround. I'm sure the Raiders and their fans don't mind overpaying Seymour a couple years to help return to a winning franchise. This can't be undervalued. You can have all the talent in the world, but if a winning attitude and atmosphere isn't there, you will fail fail fail. Ask the Dallas Cowboys. Ask the Detroit Loins. They know.

 

[southeastjerome]

The Pats haven't said it publicly, but when Brady went down, I think they looked at a two year window for him to recover fully, and the CBA issues, and decided that they would make their next run starting in 2011.

I lol'd.

 

[bostonfred]

Look at the last two years. The Patriots trade Seymour for a 2011 pick. They trade Moss for another 2011 pick. They hold the line on signing Mankins and let him hold out for half of 2010. They spend an early pick on a top wideout who is recovering from injury. They sign an ancient Fred Taylor to hold the fort and don't fix their aging running back situation, but they do sign a bunch of young receiver talent which will take some time to develop. I'm not saying that they're not playing for this year - as their 6-2 record attests. I'm saying that I believe they have been loading up for a serious attempt from 2011-2015 and have been planning ahead for it since Brady went down. They knew Brady would take a year or two to recover from a bad ACL injury, they knew that they had an aging defense, they were getting picked apart in free agency and needed to get younger and cheaper. I think they've made some excellent moves with that plan in mind, but it's not a plan you can say out loud if you're management.

 

[David Yudkin]

Sticking to just Seymour, NE was not going to resign him anyway. Over the course of several years, his play in NE had been deteriorating in that he went from having to be double and triple teamed to being blocked by a single player. (His last year in NE he had a fair amount of sacks, but again his play was very hit or miss.)

His situation could easily have been on the path that Moss was on . . . digruntled player wanting a big contract feeling dissed about not getting it and mouthing off to the media. Seymour and the Pats went through that some in the past. Whether Seymour would have become a spectacle or phoned it in on the field is anyone's guess.

So from NE's standpoint, they traded a year of potentially so-so Seymour production for what will likely be a mid-round first round pick (which at this point would be around the 18th overall pick).

Anything that happened once he got to Oakland is almost immaterial, as the Pats could only bank on the situation as it was developing in NE. Trading a 30-year-old that had missed time in 6 seasons and wanting a big contract for a first round pick should still be considered a steal.

 

[massraider]

Oakland playing well doesn't mean it wasn't a good deal for the Pats.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

Oakland playing well doesn't mean it wasn't a good deal for the Pats.

It does turn a potential top 5 or 10 pick into a mid round pick, so it does indeed affect the outcome of the trade, imo.

 

[southeastjerome]

Look at the last two years. The Patriots trade Seymour for a 2011 pick. They trade Moss for another 2011 pick. They hold the line on signing Mankins and let him hold out for half of 2010. They spend an early pick on a top wideout who is recovering from injury. They sign an ancient Fred Taylor to hold the fort and don't fix their aging running back situation, but they do sign a bunch of young receiver talent which will take some time to develop. I'm not saying that they're not playing for this year - as their 6-2 record attests. I'm saying that I believe they have been loading up for a serious attempt from 2011-2015 and have been planning ahead for it since Brady went down. They knew Brady would take a year or two to recover from a bad ACL injury, they knew that they had an aging defense, they were getting picked apart in free agency and needed to get younger and cheaper. I think they've made some excellent moves with that plan in mind, but it's not a plan you can say out loud if you're management.

That's not all that different to what they have done in the past, while they were winning Super Bowls. See Deion Branch and Asante Samuel.

 

[massraider]

Oakland playing well doesn't mean it wasn't a good deal for the Pats.

It does turn a potential top 5 or 10 pick into a mid round pick, so it does indeed affect the outcome of the trade, imo.

It affects the range of the pick, sure, assuming that Seymour is responsible for the turnaround himself. And he's obviously not. I don't really want to get into his influence on the team, no one would ever prove what it was, but there has been a lot of bright spots this season. Getting rid of JaMarcus is #1, undisputed. Russell leaving improved the play of about 20 different players.I don't care if the Raiders win the Super Bowl, and the Pats get the 32nd pick. Still a great deal for the Pats.

What it would take for the trade to look bad is for the Pats to blow the first rounder (and they'll probably just turn it into 6 4th rounders anyway, so good luck assessing their end of it) and Seymour to sign a reasonable long term deal with Oakland, and perform at a high level for three or more years. That's a lot that has to happen. And in the abstract, you have a player that wasn't going to get the deal he wanted, in the last year of his deal, and the team gets a 1st for him. Good deal no matter what they do with the 1st, or where the 1st lands.

If Pats fans want to feel bad about the deal because it doesn't appear to be a top 5 pick, swell. I am all for Pats fans feeling bad. And if Raider fans want to crow about the deal after a three game win streak, good for them. The Raiders have a real tough schedule up ahead, and still have a lot to prove. They didn't look good last week at all.

 

[Ghost Rider]

If Pats fans want to feel bad about the deal because it doesn't appear to be a top 5 pick, swell. I am all for Pats fans feeling bad. And if Raider fans want to crow about the deal after a three game win streak, good for them. The Raiders have a real tough schedule up ahead, and still have a lot to prove. They didn't look good last week at all.

And yet they still won against a team that was 5-2 going into that game. Honestly, I think at this point that it is easy to say that trade is win-win. It probably worked out well for both sides. The Patriots are still gonna get a first round pick for a player they weren't gonna resign anyway, and the Raiders retained a very good player who probably wouldn't have signed with them on his own in the offseason.

 

[Raider Nation]

Anyone who still thinks this was a "horrible" trade for Oakland isn't paying attention.

Yeah why would people not pay attention to Oakland? Still a horrible, horrible trade.

You don't watch Oakland right? So you have a perfect vantage point of the situation out there right?Is there any other opinions you'd like to share that you know nothing about?

Anything having to do with females would be my guess.

 

[RBM]

Wonder if the Pats couldve used Seymour Sunday when Hillis was smacking them all over the field?

Meanwhile, the Raider D is finally playing well.

 

[Raider Nation]

Wonder if the Pats couldve used Seymour Sunday when Hillis was smacking them all over the field?

Post #376

 

[bostonfred]

Look at the last two years. The Patriots trade Seymour for a 2011 pick. They trade Moss for another 2011 pick. They hold the line on signing Mankins and let him hold out for half of 2010. They spend an early pick on a top wideout who is recovering from injury. They sign an ancient Fred Taylor to hold the fort and don't fix their aging running back situation, but they do sign a bunch of young receiver talent which will take some time to develop. I'm not saying that they're not playing for this year - as their 6-2 record attests. I'm saying that I believe they have been loading up for a serious attempt from 2011-2015 and have been planning ahead for it since Brady went down. They knew Brady would take a year or two to recover from a bad ACL injury, they knew that they had an aging defense, they were getting picked apart in free agency and needed to get younger and cheaper. I think they've made some excellent moves with that plan in mind, but it's not a plan you can say out loud if you're management.

That's not all that different to what they have done in the past, while they were winning Super Bowls. See Deion Branch and Asante Samuel.

Lawyer Milloy would be a better example, since the Branch and Asante partings of ways were after the Superbowl era. But you're right that this isn't a huge departure. I'm not saying that the Pats are totally rebuilding. But if you look at the turnover, I think this has been a deliberate reshaping of the team. I posted a quote somewhere from Jonathan Kraft about the youth movement, and how the Pats have more players under 25 than most teams. I'll see if I can find it.

 

[Raider Nation]

Look at the last two years. The Patriots trade Seymour for a 2011 pick. They trade Moss for another 2011 pick. They hold the line on signing Mankins and let him hold out for half of 2010. They spend an early pick on a top wideout who is recovering from injury. They sign an ancient Fred Taylor to hold the fort and don't fix their aging running back situation, but they do sign a bunch of young receiver talent which will take some time to develop. I'm not saying that they're not playing for this year - as their 6-2 record attests. I'm saying that I believe they have been loading up for a serious attempt from 2011-2015 and have been planning ahead for it since Brady went down. They knew Brady would take a year or two to recover from a bad ACL injury, they knew that they had an aging defense, they were getting picked apart in free agency and needed to get younger and cheaper. I think they've made some excellent moves with that plan in mind, but it's not a plan you can say out loud if you're management.

That's not all that different to what they have done in the past, while they were winning Super Bowls. See Deion Branch and Asante Samuel.

Lawyer Milloy would be a better example, since the Branch and Asante partings of ways were after the Superbowl era. But you're right that this isn't a huge departure. I'm not saying that the Pats are totally rebuilding. But if you look at the turnover, I think this has been a deliberate reshaping of the team. I posted a quote somewhere from Jonathan Kraft about the youth movement, and how the Pats have more players under 25 than most teams. I'll see if I can find it.

If the Pats hit on even a half of their upcoming high draft picks, they will indeed be scary for years to come.Thankfully for those of us who get tired of seeing them win, Brady can't play forever.

Can he?

 

[David Yudkin]

Thankfully for those of us who get tired of seeing them win, Brady can't play forever.

Can he?

I personally don't think the Pats have the same Brady that they used to. Between the knee injury, the big contract, the runway model, the kids, the jet set lifestyle, etc. I don't think Brady is as motivated or as good.Maybe that will change as the personnel changes or they get closer to being a dominent team, but for now I think the in the 30s Brady is an inferior product than the in his 20s Brady. It could be a case of all the puzzle pieces personnel and coaching wise not meshing like they once did. But for now I would say he's not as young and hungry as he once was. He also goes threw phases where he is not very accurate and this year particularly he's thrown a number of passes to open players way too low or into the ground 5 feet in front of the receiver. Perhaps it's just a slump or something mechanical. Hopefully it's not something physical or injury related.

 

[Steed]

Someone made the point that this isn't as good a trade as first thought because the 1st rounder won't be as high as originally anticipated. I'm willing to bet the Patriots wouldn't have been happy about having to sign a top 5 pick to the exorbitant contract that normally comes with it. Everything I've read suggests the Pats value 2nd rounders and late 1st rounders more than early 1st rounders, if that makes sense.

 

[David Yudkin]

Someone made the point that this isn't as good a trade as first thought because the 1st rounder won't be as high as originally anticipated. I'm willing to bet the Patriots wouldn't have been happy about having to sign a top 5 pick to the exorbitant contract that normally comes with it. Everything I've read suggests the Pats value 2nd rounders and late 1st rounders more than early 1st rounders, if that makes sense.

The rationale for the Pats wanting a 2011 pick is that they were guessing/hoping/banking that by 2011 there would be a rookie salary cap and that the enormous signing bonuses for Top 5 picks and huge contracts would have been a lot less costly than the way it's been.If they ended up with a Top 5 pick with a rookie salary cap, I doubt they would have complained. Obviously we have no idea what the backside of the labor hurricane will bring.

 

[Lash]

not counting the real life re-sign or not re-sign issues, it's like fantasy football

you trade a first for a great player you know that that great player is probably gonna make that first a little worse than it would be without said player

in the Pats thoughts they didnt care where the first ended up because they didnt want Syemour back anyways, but under their breath they were probably hoping that even Seymour couldn't save the raiders from a top10 pick