Pat Patriot
Footballguy
What is your point? Seymour has missed 9 games in 6 years and has been All Pro for 3 straight years. Thats not Pro Bowl, that is All Pro. He is an uberstud.
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Pats to sign Wes Welker to offer sheet (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Workhorse
- Start date
Wandering wookie
Footballguy
Uhh let's see satistically he probably had about 35-45 total tackles, forced a fumble or two, batted a half dozen passes, plunked down two to three sacks, and I think I remember an interception. As for the AFCC, I seem to remember him playing slow but through-out the game... So, I guess he isn't worth it based on last year or the several other years he has posted simular numbers.Oh yeah, he was constantly double teamed through out the season allowing both Wilfork and Warren play their best years thus far, he was voted to the probowl based on his solid play as the only rep of the Patriots and, since probowls don't count for crud here, he was selected as an all pro DT next to Trevor Pryce and Jamal Williams. And FWIW, watching him play is enough in my mind and eyes to see that he is worth every cent of the payraise he whined about and that was rightfully due to him.
phthalatemagic
Footballguy
You think he's still worth it. OK then
jgb95
Footballguy
Boston said:
EXACTLY!!!!There's no way the contract is more than $1.5 - $2.0 a year over the first 4-5 years!There is going to be a poison pill that makes it immposible for the Dolphins to match. Like if he plays 5 or more games in MIA in any given season the whole contract becomes guaranteed.
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
I think the Dolphins would have taken the 2nd round unless the offers for Welker were well below market value. At this price the Dolphins will not match so NE you have your punt returner and slot guyLast year Welker about doubled his career numbers (3rd year in league). Not exactly proven in my bookcdwood said:
Biabreakable
Footballguy
That he doubled his numbers while competing with Chambers and Booker for receptions tells me that he has hit a learning curve that we see from WRs in thier 2nd-4th seasons. That is at least more proven than a rookie WR the Pats could draft with a 2nd round pick in my book.Welker will not have the same level of compitition from WRs in NE as he did competing with Booker and Chambers either so it will be interesting to see if his numbers improve from 2006 to 2007 with the Pats as well.
He seems like a player that could fill Branch/Troy Brown (in his prime) shoes to me. Plus he plays special teams.
massraider
Footballguy
Watching the Fins last year told me they didn't have a QB that could hit his outside receivers. Welker worked the underneath routes, and sometimes it seemed like the Fins QB's weren't capable of putting the ball anywhere else.
Exile
Footballguy
Looks like the Pats just traded for him instead:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writ...lker/index.html
They through in a 7th to avoid having to do the offer sheet/poison pill dance.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writ...lker/index.html
They through in a 7th to avoid having to do the offer sheet/poison pill dance.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
two draft picks for Welker...am I missing something here?
Wandering wookie
Footballguy
I hope so. I have Welker AND Travis Henry in my keeper league!!!We score for return yardage, also.
Could be a great day for my squad.
NE may have just added a piece to their championship puzzle that is hard to find-a hard working, multi-talented receiver who will play ST and not scream at the QB if the ball doesn't come his way every play.
kellumsboys
Footballguy
does he have any experience at nickel CB ?
Beaumont
Footballguy
Dolphins | Land two draft picks from Patriots for Welker
Mon, 5 Mar 2007 14:52:27 -0800
Updating previous reports, Harvey Fialkov, of the Sun-Sentinel, citing SI.com, reports the New England Patriots sent a second- and seventh-round draft pick to the Miami Dolphins in return for WR/KR Wes Welker.
Mon, 5 Mar 2007 14:52:27 -0800
Updating previous reports, Harvey Fialkov, of the Sun-Sentinel, citing SI.com, reports the New England Patriots sent a second- and seventh-round draft pick to the Miami Dolphins in return for WR/KR Wes Welker.
Boston
Footballguy
I'm guessing the Pats didn't want to wait seven days to get an answer on this. Besides the fact they like Welker they obviously need help at WR. If they lost Welker in a week and their other options dried up they could have been left with nothing. IMO they didn't want to risk that. With an extra #1 and #6 (they don't have a #5) and at least two (and maybe three) compensatory picks on the way the Pats have a little wiggle room and will still have plenty of draft ammo.Right now they are in a situation where they know they have him and can proceed with anymore transactions they have planned without any uncertainty.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
But a 2nd and a 7th seems a bit high...no?
Beaumont
Footballguy
The lessen here is that teams are willing to pay premium for a top flight return game ...
When will the Pat's be awarded the compensatory picks? And who were they from?
LHUCKS
Footballguy
top flight?I like what Welker did last year but if I'm Joe GM I don't give up a 2nd...I guess if the Patriots feel their depth is so stacked a second rounder doesn't mean much to them this year??
Reaper
Footballguy
I thought so too and then remembered the Jets spending a 2nd on McCareins and I was kinda happy with it....
Liked the player but hoped to spend less.Pats can afford it and need a role player and Miami needs picks, watch that 2nd rounder turn into an OG.
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
Forget the 7th, very little value to the Pats.
The 2nd seems high for Welker but it is a low 2nd. Its not a slamdunk but I'm warming up to it. Welker will be very productive in the Patriots offense.
The 2nd seems high for Welker but it is a low 2nd. Its not a slamdunk but I'm warming up to it. Welker will be very productive in the Patriots offense.
nerangers
Footballguy
Agree about both picks...I am just wondering who else the Pats could have targeted with that kind of offer? They are definitely going with experience over getting another rookie WR. They must have seen something there they really liked.
Kit Fisto
Footballguy
Randy Moss, Reche Caldwell and Wes Welker line up Week 1 this fall and I wet myself.
Seriously...
A happy Randy Moss is just plain sick.
Caldwell proved he can handle a good deal of the load; he's just not a #1. Great #2 WR.
Welker fills the Troy Brown/ex-Tim Dwight role, except he's faster and younger.
Maroney no longer returns kicks. Kevin Faulk to be replaced by Welker and Darius Walker (I'm calling this pick).
What the Pats are doing is getting younger and better at the same time, which is no easy feat.
Seriously...
A happy Randy Moss is just plain sick.
Caldwell proved he can handle a good deal of the load; he's just not a #1. Great #2 WR.
Welker fills the Troy Brown/ex-Tim Dwight role, except he's faster and younger.
Maroney no longer returns kicks. Kevin Faulk to be replaced by Welker and Darius Walker (I'm calling this pick).
What the Pats are doing is getting younger and better at the same time, which is no easy feat.
Kit Fisto
Footballguy
If you've watched the Pats/Dolphins games these past few years, you know exactly what Belichick sees in Welker. If you're a season-ticket holder like I am, get ready to hear lots of... Catch by Welker good for another Patriots...........FIRST DOWN!I like it, and I don't care about the 2nd rounder. If they win the SB again, it'll be well worth it.
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LHUCKS
Footballguy
this might be what it comes down to...they just don't really care about a late second given the depth they already have. Seemed high at first, but given Welker's utility it's making more sense I suppose.
Boston
Footballguy
I know this will sound homerish but I don't think so (although I do see why others do). This guy reeks of being a Patriot and his value to the Pats and where they are may mean more to them than other teams. BB loves versatility and he fills a huge need at WR, will be their kickoff (Maroney will no longer be doing that for obvious reasons) and punt returner and he can even fill in at kicker if need be. He's 25 and brings a high energy that the Pats need more of. He's also considered an excellent teammate and with guys like Bruschi, Troy and Harrison getting a little long in the tooth adding a guy his age to the lockerrom is another positive. I really see him as being the next Troy Brown type of player and while he didn't come cheap he will be worth it for a team that I believe knows their window of opportunity is the next five years and is going to take advantage of a healthy cap situation to try to add more titles.
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nxmehta
Footballguy
I think this thread and the Travis Henry thread are testaments to the uncontrollable optimism homers/owners feel during the NFL offseason when players get moved around. I mean, are people seriously suggesting that Travis Henry will be a top 5 RB or Wes Welker is worth a 2nd round pick and $30 million?
If I turn out to be wrong several months from now please feel free to call me out, but I don't think it's gonna happen...
I think that either there will be more deals later to shed light on these current deals, or that some teams in the current cash heavy FA market just don't mind overpaying.
If I turn out to be wrong several months from now please feel free to call me out, but I don't think it's gonna happen...
I think that either there will be more deals later to shed light on these current deals, or that some teams in the current cash heavy FA market just don't mind overpaying.
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David Yudkin
Footballguy
The compensatory picks will be announced later this month at the offseason owners meeting. I do not suspect that the Pats will get anything all that exciting.The players they lost include Adam Vinatieri, Willie McGinest, David Givens, Tom Ashworth, Matt Chatham, Andre Davis, Tim Dwight, and Christian Fauria. Tyrone Poole and Duane Starks were signed by the Raiders, but I believe they were already cut by New England so I don't they count.
IIRC, the only true free agent they signed was Reche Caldwell.
As I have explained several times, compensatory picks are awarded based on net gains or net losses by salary. There are other fluff considerations in the rules, but salary is the driving force. So if a team lost only an $8 million a year player but signed only one player (another one at the same price) they would not get a compensatory pick.
Picks are normally awarded based on the per year average of the palyer's contract with his new team. The higher the average salary, the higher the compensatory pick. Last year, there was only one 3rd round compensatory pick awarded (to the Jets for losing LaMont Jordan). Jordan's contract averaged over $5 million per season. There were only four or five 4th round picks handed out and those players had contract averages of over $4 million per season. There were a lot more picks given out in the 5th-7th rounds which is generally where the core of picks come from.
Teams can also get compensatory picks awarded for collective salary losses, which I suspect is what the Pats will get. Givens might be worth a 4th round pick and Vinatieri might earn a 5th round pick, but the other guys did not really sign for big money. They may earn a 6th rounder for the net loss of all the other players.
I would guess the Pats will get three compensatory picks--one each in the 4th, 5th, and 6th rounds. The limit for compensatory picks is 4 per team and the limit for the entire league is 32 picks. Compensatory picks cannot be traded.
massraider
Footballguy
I believe Welker signed a 5 year deal worth 18 mill, with 10 mill guaranteed in some form or another.Just caught it on NFLN, I may have that wrong, but it's close to that.
Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
phthalatemagic
Footballguy
Do you know Welker's KR and PR rankings are? I do, they aren't as impressive as one would wish they were.
massraider
Footballguy
After reading some of the comments regarding his abilities, I thought I was confusing him with the guy I watched last year. This is not Devin Hester, people.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Not really, because you then have 32 teams with an equal chance at him. And he can select whatever is the best team situation for himself.
Im not saying its value is better or comparable to other draft picks, Im saying its a far greater thing then being without and going
the undrafted free agent route.
Having said that, the Pats did have plenty of draft selections I do believe, so its easier for them to swallow the late loss then for some others.
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phthalatemagic
Footballguy
I got nothin else.....Ok alot of Patriot Homer talk going on here... for us non patriot fans like my myself who own Welker ina league that awards retrun yardage points her was a borderline WR2 last season.
As a Patriot will he gain or lose value? To be honest I am not happy about the deal, I think he loses value. I don't see him having 60+ catches for the Pats. My only hope is that he picks up a few more TD's and retians his kick returning job.
Thoughts?
As a Patriot will he gain or lose value? To be honest I am not happy about the deal, I think he loses value. I don't see him having 60+ catches for the Pats. My only hope is that he picks up a few more TD's and retians his kick returning job.
Thoughts?
Boston
Footballguy
He'll be a better real football player than fantasy player. If you get return yardage and PPR then he has some decent value. Yet, overall I look for the Pats to probably add one more veteran and continue spreading the ball around. Welker has a good chance to lead the Pats in receptions and yardage but that makes him a decent #3 at best, especially because he probably wont be too much of a TD guy.
Beaumont
Footballguy
I dont disagree, but the return game is a total team effort and I believe the perception in the NFL is that Welker is in fact a good return man.Let's put it this way. Welker will handle the return game. He will not start at WR.Yet they paid him a fat contract ... How about that?
Frenchy Fuqua
Footballguy
Coudn't they have dug up Tim Dwight?
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Yeah... but this time they got Tim Dwight "in his prime".
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
Give that man a cigar. Also, Booker missed a few games and Chambers was banged up most of the year (but played)I do think that he will be very effective for Brady as Brady likes the short crossing patterns, but I think this was a good deal for the Dolphins and NE overpaid. I reserve a right to change my mind on NE when I see what they actually signed Welker for.
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