People who refuse to criticize the draft (1 Viewer)

[_4_]

First off, remember criticize means to make judgments as to merits and faults.

The people who come on here and say, "You don't know anything yet. You can't criticize a draft until they get in pads and watch them play" blah blah blah....

You can criticize because you CAN find fault as a fan who has seen a team's strengths and deficiencies. I believe those who say "You can't criticize..." are weak thinkers, lemmings. They think that's the apropos thing to say if you are a "smart" fan - I believe the opposite is true - form a fact based opinion, sprinkled with subjective conjecture and share it, Mary.

With media today providing coverage of every player on the planet, it isn't difficult to evaluate a draft. Will some surprise? Sure, but how many Marquese Colston's were there compared to busts who didn't make a team??

And btw - Ted Thompson had a terrible draft - less for the players he took, than those he passed on and the moves he didn't make.

 

[Man in the yellow hat]

And btw - Ted Thompson had a terrible draft - less for the players he took, than those he passed on and the moves he didn't make.

And the "guys he passed on" stuff always gets me. A lot of the guys he passed on weren't just passed on by Green Bay. It happens every year that some of the media darlings far much farther than expected. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, even if it is wrong. When has a Thompson draft ever recieved glowing praise from the fan base? Most people can't get the "Help Brett Now" tagline out of their heads, which is the completely incorrect line of thinking.I thought Thompson had a decent draft. Didn't take the high hype players, but did pick good fits for the team.

 

[_4_]

And btw - Ted Thompson had a terrible draft - less for the players he took, than those he passed on and the moves he didn't make.

And the "guys he passed on" stuff always gets me. A lot of the guys he passed on weren't just passed on by Green Bay. It happens every year that some of the media darlings far much farther than expected. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, even if it is wrong. When has a Thompson draft ever recieved glowing praise from the fan base? Most people can't get the "Help Brett Now" tagline out of their heads, which is the completely incorrect line of thinking.I thought Thompson had a decent draft. Didn't take the high hype players, but did pick good fits for the team.

You can't consider teams passing on players if it isn't a need position. The Packers passed on the top what, 25 WR's in the draft (subjective - I didn't actually run to sites right now to check) before picking Jones in the 3rd. I know I am in the minority of Packer fans who wanted Moss, and I believe the Packers could have had Moss with either of their 3rd round picks. If Jones (or Clowney) become the next 31 year old Randy Moss (not even the Moss of 5 years ago), I will eat your yellow hat. (actually, I won't - that is, as they say, an expression). The Packers have how many defensive lineman on the roster who played well in 2006 - 7? 8? Either or, it was not a position that needed addressing with a HIGHLY injury prone player at one of the most physically demanding positions on the field.

 

[Funkley]

I thought the reason that Moss isn't a Packer is because he wouldn't re-do his contract to go there.

 

[Man in the yellow hat]

And btw - Ted Thompson had a terrible draft - less for the players he took, than those he passed on and the moves he didn't make.

And the "guys he passed on" stuff always gets me. A lot of the guys he passed on weren't just passed on by Green Bay. It happens every year that some of the media darlings far much farther than expected. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, even if it is wrong. When has a Thompson draft ever recieved glowing praise from the fan base? Most people can't get the "Help Brett Now" tagline out of their heads, which is the completely incorrect line of thinking.I thought Thompson had a decent draft. Didn't take the high hype players, but did pick good fits for the team.

You can't consider teams passing on players if it isn't a need position. The Packers passed on the top what, 25 WR's in the draft (subjective - I didn't actually run to sites right now to check) before picking Jones in the 3rd. I know I am in the minority of Packer fans who wanted Moss, and I believe the Packers could have had Moss with either of their 3rd round picks. If Jones (or Clowney) become the next 31 year old Randy Moss (not even the Moss of 5 years ago), I will eat your yellow hat. (actually, I won't - that is, as they say, an expression). The Packers have how many defensive lineman on the roster who played well in 2006 - 7? 8? Either or, it was not a position that needed addressing with a HIGHLY injury prone player at one of the most physically demanding positions on the field.

There wasn't a Wide Receiver on the board worth the 16th pick, in my opinion. And Greg Olsen wasn't worth it either. We can argue Harrell's question marks, but all players at that point in the draft have them, otherise they'd have been drafted sooner.And trades are a two way street. It's coming out now that the only team Moss was willing to renegotiate a contract with was New England. Why? Because he wants to win a Super Bowl. And as much as we'd like to believe Green Bay is close, they aren't. Not even a Moss addition makes them a contender. Randy knows it. I know it. Ted Thompson knows it. Without a renegotiate, Moss was not worth the third rounder.

 

[Jason Wood]

Objectively this doesn't hold up though. Fans are emotional. They want the home run. I can speak most directly for the Eagles. The fans booed incessantly when Reid drafted McNabb over Ricky Williams. Who was right? The media and fans KILLED him when he drafted three defensive backs in the first two rounds (Sheppard, Brown, Lewis) when the Birds had three Pro Bowl players (Taylor, Vincent, Dawkins) already on the roster. Turns out, again, it was a brilliant move. The team lost their minds when Reid let Trotter leave for D.C. Same holds true when the Birds let "team leader" Hugh Douglas leave for Jacksonville. Both turned out to be the right moves AND both guys came back to the Eagles for veteran minimum contracts.

Some teams are going to have horrible drafts. Some are going to have brilliant drafts. And we, as football fanatics, are going to have passionate and immediate reactions EVEN THOUGH there's very little logic to thinking we have a better handle on things than the people paid to do this for a living.

Do I think the Eagles had a bad draft? Absolutely. As a fan I'm disappointed because it's not what I think we needed. But I also understand that I'm having an emotional reaction that's not in any way based on the true outcome of this draft or any other teams for that matter.

My $0.02

 

[Sabertooth]

First off, remember criticize means to make judgments as to merits and faults.

The people who come on here and say, "You don't know anything yet. You can't criticize a draft until they get in pads and watch them play" blah blah blah....

You can criticize because you CAN find fault as a fan who has seen a team's strengths and deficiencies. I believe those who say "You can't criticize..." are weak thinkers, lemmings. They think that's the apropos thing to say if you are a "smart" fan - I believe the opposite is true - form a fact based opinion, sprinkled with subjective conjecture and share it, Mary.

With media today providing coverage of every player on the planet, it isn't difficult to evaluate a draft. Will some surprise? Sure, but how many Marquese Colston's were there compared to busts who didn't make a team??

And btw - Ted Thompson had a terrible draft - less for the players he took, than those he passed on and the moves he didn't make.

How do you know this?

 

[Sabertooth]

You can't consider teams passing on players if it isn't a need position. The Packers passed on the top what, 25 WR's in the draft (subjective - I didn't actually run to sites right now to check) before picking Jones in the 3rd. I know I am in the minority of Packer fans who wanted Moss, and I believe the Packers could have had Moss with either of their 3rd round picks. If Jones (or Clowney) become the next 31 year old Randy Moss (not even the Moss of 5 years ago), I will eat your yellow hat. (actually, I won't - that is, as they say, an expression). The Packers have how many defensive lineman on the roster who played well in 2006 - 7? 8? Either or, it was not a position that needed addressing with a HIGHLY injury prone player at one of the most physically demanding positions on the field.

And Greg Jenning wasn't worth anything more than a 5th rounder either. Moss wiped his butt on the goalpost at Lambeau. #### him.

What exactly is injury prone?

You are a raving lunatic right now!

 

[CalBear]

And btw - Ted Thompson had a terrible draft - less for the players he took, than those he passed on and the moves he didn't make.

He got possibly the steal of the draft in Desmond Bishop.

 

[_4_]

And btw - Ted Thompson had a terrible draft - less for the players he took, than those he passed on and the moves he didn't make.

And the "guys he passed on" stuff always gets me. A lot of the guys he passed on weren't just passed on by Green Bay. It happens every year that some of the media darlings far much farther than expected. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, even if it is wrong. When has a Thompson draft ever recieved glowing praise from the fan base? Most people can't get the "Help Brett Now" tagline out of their heads, which is the completely incorrect line of thinking.I thought Thompson had a decent draft. Didn't take the high hype players, but did pick good fits for the team.

You can't consider teams passing on players if it isn't a need position. The Packers passed on the top what, 25 WR's in the draft (subjective - I didn't actually run to sites right now to check) before picking Jones in the 3rd. I know I am in the minority of Packer fans who wanted Moss, and I believe the Packers could have had Moss with either of their 3rd round picks. If Jones (or Clowney) become the next 31 year old Randy Moss (not even the Moss of 5 years ago), I will eat your yellow hat. (actually, I won't - that is, as they say, an expression). The Packers have how many defensive lineman on the roster who played well in 2006 - 7? 8? Either or, it was not a position that needed addressing with a HIGHLY injury prone player at one of the most physically demanding positions on the field.

There wasn't a Wide Receiver on the board worth the 16th pick, in my opinion. And Greg Olsen wasn't worth it either. We can argue Harrell's question marks, but all players at that point in the draft have them, otherise they'd have been drafted sooner.And trades are a two way street. It's coming out now that the only team Moss was willing to renegotiate a contract with was New England. Why? Because he wants to win a Super Bowl. And as much as we'd like to believe Green Bay is close, they aren't. Not even a Moss addition makes them a contender. Randy knows it. I know it. Ted Thompson knows it. Without a renegotiate, Moss was not worth the third rounder.

I disagree. Meachum would have been with Brett Favre, Javon Walker with a better inate ability to run after the catch, and a lesser ability to catch the deep outside ball over the shoulder. Greg Olsen would have been a value pick in the early 20's. Ted did say he had several offers to move down and stay in the first round. Harrell was just too valuable to pass on (Kampman, Jenkins, Pickett, Cole, Jolly, Williams, Montgomery, KGB, Hunter).As to Moss, WHY renegotiate??? He is has the ability to be a top 5 WR still. He ran a 4.28 last week. They spent NO money in FA (Frank Walker??? come on). They paid Woodson on a very similar contract last year, they could have done it again. If he doesn't live up to the contract, cut him. It is one of the great things about the NFL. Ted is weak. He was holding out and sat by and watched as a better management group scooped up Moss while he was counting his dollars under the salary cap.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Objectively this doesn't hold up though. Fans are emotional. They want the home run. I can speak most directly for the Eagles. The fans booed incessantly when Reid drafted McNabb over Ricky Williams. Who was right? The media and fans KILLED him when he drafted three defensive backs in the first two rounds (Sheppard, Brown, Lewis) when the Birds had three Pro Bowl players (Taylor, Vincent, Dawkins) already on the roster. Turns out, again, it was a brilliant move. The team lost their minds when Reid let Trotter leave for D.C. Same holds true when the Birds let "team leader" Hugh Douglas leave for Jacksonville. Both turned out to be the right moves AND both guys came back to the Eagles for veteran minimum contracts. Some teams are going to have horrible drafts. Some are going to have brilliant drafts. And we, as football fanatics, are going to have passionate and immediate reactions EVEN THOUGH there's very little logic to thinking we have a better handle on things than the people paid to do this for a living.Do I think the Eagles had a bad draft? Absolutely. As a fan I'm disappointed because it's not what I think we needed. But I also understand that I'm having an emotional reaction that's not in any way based on the true outcome of this draft or any other teams for that matter.My $0.02

 

[uwgb96]

Objectively this doesn't hold up though. Fans are emotional. They want the home run. I can speak most directly for the Eagles. The fans booed incessantly when Reid drafted McNabb over Ricky Williams. Who was right? The media and fans KILLED him when he drafted three defensive backs in the first two rounds (Sheppard, Brown, Lewis) when the Birds had three Pro Bowl players (Taylor, Vincent, Dawkins) already on the roster. Turns out, again, it was a brilliant move. The team lost their minds when Reid let Trotter leave for D.C. Same holds true when the Birds let "team leader" Hugh Douglas leave for Jacksonville. Both turned out to be the right moves AND both guys came back to the Eagles for veteran minimum contracts. Some teams are going to have horrible drafts. Some are going to have brilliant drafts. And we, as football fanatics, are going to have passionate and immediate reactions EVEN THOUGH there's very little logic to thinking we have a better handle on things than the people paid to do this for a living.Do I think the Eagles had a bad draft? Absolutely. As a fan I'm disappointed because it's not what I think we needed. But I also understand that I'm having an emotional reaction that's not in any way based on the true outcome of this draft or any other teams for that matter.My $0.02

Passion is probably a very good way to look at this.I've never said you can't criticize a pick, but there also has to be some common sense and patience to see how things work out.To call people "weak thinkers" and "lemmings" because they aren't immediately critical is short sighted.I understand fans are passionate and want immediate results and get caught up in the hype and "name" players. But a GM's job, and Thompson has said this repeatedly, is to make the team better; not only for the coming year, but for the future. People act like he is purposefully making terrible decisions and must not realize that he has a lot more to lose than they do.Criticize selections all you like, but also realize that we need to see if the picks that were made do indeed have an impact on the team; not only this year, but in the future.

 

[_4_]

And btw - Ted Thompson had a terrible draft - less for the players he took, than those he passed on and the moves he didn't make.

He got possibly the steal of the draft in Desmond Bishop.

Slow and stiff, but a sure tackler and leader. May improve the special teams if he can beat out Tracey White for a roster spot. The problem is, the kid from Boise is very similar and was drafted almost purely for his ability on special teams as neither Bishop nor he will likely beat out Abdul Hodge or Nick Barnett for a spot at real playing time.

 

[PatsWillWin]

I thought the reason that Moss isn't a Packer is because he wouldn't re-do his contract to go there.

People continue to ignore this. I'm not sure why.

 

[Aaronstory]

Objectively this doesn't hold up though. Fans are emotional. They want the home run. I can speak most directly for the Eagles. The fans booed incessantly when Reid drafted McNabb over Ricky Williams. Who was right? The media and fans KILLED him when he drafted three defensive backs in the first two rounds (Sheppard, Brown, Lewis) when the Birds had three Pro Bowl players (Taylor, Vincent, Dawkins) already on the roster. Turns out, again, it was a brilliant move. The team lost their minds when Reid let Trotter leave for D.C. Same holds true when the Birds let "team leader" Hugh Douglas leave for Jacksonville. Both turned out to be the right moves AND both guys came back to the Eagles for veteran minimum contracts. Some teams are going to have horrible drafts. Some are going to have brilliant drafts. And we, as football fanatics, are going to have passionate and immediate reactions EVEN THOUGH there's very little logic to thinking we have a better handle on things than the people paid to do this for a living.Do I think the Eagles had a bad draft? Absolutely. As a fan I'm disappointed because it's not what I think we needed. But I also understand that I'm having an emotional reaction that's not in any way based on the true outcome of this draft or any other teams for that matter.My $0.02

This should be on the Home Page.

 

[Man in the yellow hat]

And btw - Ted Thompson had a terrible draft - less for the players he took, than those he passed on and the moves he didn't make.

And the "guys he passed on" stuff always gets me. A lot of the guys he passed on weren't just passed on by Green Bay. It happens every year that some of the media darlings far much farther than expected. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, even if it is wrong. When has a Thompson draft ever recieved glowing praise from the fan base? Most people can't get the "Help Brett Now" tagline out of their heads, which is the completely incorrect line of thinking.I thought Thompson had a decent draft. Didn't take the high hype players, but did pick good fits for the team.

You can't consider teams passing on players if it isn't a need position. The Packers passed on the top what, 25 WR's in the draft (subjective - I didn't actually run to sites right now to check) before picking Jones in the 3rd. I know I am in the minority of Packer fans who wanted Moss, and I believe the Packers could have had Moss with either of their 3rd round picks. If Jones (or Clowney) become the next 31 year old Randy Moss (not even the Moss of 5 years ago), I will eat your yellow hat. (actually, I won't - that is, as they say, an expression). The Packers have how many defensive lineman on the roster who played well in 2006 - 7? 8? Either or, it was not a position that needed addressing with a HIGHLY injury prone player at one of the most physically demanding positions on the field.

There wasn't a Wide Receiver on the board worth the 16th pick, in my opinion. And Greg Olsen wasn't worth it either. We can argue Harrell's question marks, but all players at that point in the draft have them, otherise they'd have been drafted sooner.And trades are a two way street. It's coming out now that the only team Moss was willing to renegotiate a contract with was New England. Why? Because he wants to win a Super Bowl. And as much as we'd like to believe Green Bay is close, they aren't. Not even a Moss addition makes them a contender. Randy knows it. I know it. Ted Thompson knows it. Without a renegotiate, Moss was not worth the third rounder.

I disagree. Meachum would have been with Brett Favre, Javon Walker with a better inate ability to run after the catch, and a lesser ability to catch the deep outside ball over the shoulder. Greg Olsen would have been a value pick in the early 20's. Ted did say he had several offers to move down and stay in the first round. Harrell was just too valuable to pass on (Kampman, Jenkins, Pickett, Cole, Jolly, Williams, Montgomery, KGB, Hunter).As to Moss, WHY renegotiate??? He is has the ability to be a top 5 WR still. He ran a 4.28 last week. They spent NO money in FA (Frank Walker??? come on). They paid Woodson on a very similar contract last year, they could have done it again. If he doesn't live up to the contract, cut him. It is one of the great things about the NFL. Ted is weak. He was holding out and sat by and watched as a better management group scooped up Moss while he was counting his dollars under the salary cap.

First round wide receiver talent is always a gamble. Always. I do not blame Thompson for holding off.And why renegotiate? Because Moss was extremely overpaid and not worth his contract. Cap space or no cap space, you can't just spend money to spend it.And let's be clear on Moss. He wanted to be in New England. Not Green Bay.

 

[_4_]

You can't consider teams passing on players if it isn't a need position. The Packers passed on the top what, 25 WR's in the draft (subjective - I didn't actually run to sites right now to check) before picking Jones in the 3rd. I know I am in the minority of Packer fans who wanted Moss, and I believe the Packers could have had Moss with either of their 3rd round picks. If Jones (or Clowney) become the next 31 year old Randy Moss (not even the Moss of 5 years ago), I will eat your yellow hat. (actually, I won't - that is, as they say, an expression). The Packers have how many defensive lineman on the roster who played well in 2006 - 7? 8? Either or, it was not a position that needed addressing with a HIGHLY injury prone player at one of the most physically demanding positions on the field.

And Greg Jenning wasn't worth anything more than a 5th rounder either. Moss wiped his butt on the goalpost at Lambeau. #### him.

What exactly is injury prone?

You are a raving lunatic right now!

1. Jennings has yet to prove HE is any more than a #2 or 3 receiver at his best (which we saw for what? 3 games last year?)2. Moss's display came after what? A LONG TD RECEPTION!!! Think GB could use a few of those...

3. Harrell enrolled at Tennessee in 2002, spending the season performing on the scout team. Hard luck with injuries limited him to eight games as a reserve defensive tackle in 2003. He missed more than half of spring drills after right leg surgery. In fall camp, he broke his ankle, sitting out the first five games. When he returned, he re-injured the ankle after only one snap against Miami and saw limited action the rest of the year. He finished with 10 tackles (5 solos), a stop for a loss and a quarterback pressure.

In 2004, Harrell started the team's first 11 games at right defensive tackle before an ankle injury against Kentucky would limit his play in the final two games. He registered 26 tackles (17 solos) with 11 pressures, 1½ sacks and 4½ stops for losses. He also batted down four passes and recovered a pair of fumbles.

in 2006 he started the first three games of the 2006 season at left tackle before missing the rest of the season with a torn bicep.

 

[perry147]

People need to remember that we as fans do not have all the information about a player that an NFL team would have. NFL teams have year round scouts and multi million dollar experts looking at every aspect of a player from every possible standpoint. All the information we have on a player even with the NFL network and year round message boards is probably nothing compared to what goes into evaluating a player for an NFL team. NFL team have scouts who have been doing this for decades and probably have forgotten more than most of us will ever know about football - many spend countless hours breaking down film and watching every catc, run, tackle or block a player made before deciding on drafting him.

OTOH - if you think you are a a better scout than that of you favorite team then send them your resume and you might get a dream job. I am sure that sitting down on a saturday afternoon watching college football on your couch if a great qualifier for a scouting job.

 

[Man in the yellow hat]

And btw - Ted Thompson had a terrible draft - less for the players he took, than those he passed on and the moves he didn't make.

He got possibly the steal of the draft in Desmond Bishop.

Slow and stiff, but a sure tackler and leader. May improve the special teams if he can beat out Tracey White for a roster spot. The problem is, the kid from Boise is very similar and was drafted almost purely for his ability on special teams as neither Bishop nor he will likely beat out Abdul Hodge or Nick Barnett for a spot at real playing time.

The kid from Boise will likely be playing Fullback.

 

[_4_]

I thought the reason that Moss isn't a Packer is because he wouldn't re-do his contract to go there.

People continue to ignore this. I'm not sure why.

Green Bay has more than enough cap space to have paid Moss (just as they did "malcontent" Charles Woodson who led the team in INT's). They didn't NEED to renegotiate, Ted Thompson wanted to feel like a big man and force it. You gonna take that cap money to the grave Ted?

 

[_4_]

And btw - Ted Thompson had a terrible draft - less for the players he took, than those he passed on and the moves he didn't make.

He got possibly the steal of the draft in Desmond Bishop.

Slow and stiff, but a sure tackler and leader. May improve the special teams if he can beat out Tracey White for a roster spot. The problem is, the kid from Boise is very similar and was drafted almost purely for his ability on special teams as neither Bishop nor he will likely beat out Abdul Hodge or Nick Barnett for a spot at real playing time.

The kid from Boise will likely be playing Fullback.

I am sure you have a link that will corroborate this. If it is conjecture on your part, MORE POWER TO YOU!! You are thinking outside the box and that's what criticism is all about!!

 

[Pipes]

You can't consider teams passing on players if it isn't a need position. The Packers passed on the top what, 25 WR's in the draft (subjective - I didn't actually run to sites right now to check) before picking Jones in the 3rd. I know I am in the minority of Packer fans who wanted Moss, and I believe the Packers could have had Moss with either of their 3rd round picks. If Jones (or Clowney) become the next 31 year old Randy Moss (not even the Moss of 5 years ago), I will eat your yellow hat. (actually, I won't - that is, as they say, an expression). The Packers have how many defensive lineman on the roster who played well in 2006 - 7? 8? Either or, it was not a position that needed addressing with a HIGHLY injury prone player at one of the most physically demanding positions on the field.

And Greg Jenning wasn't worth anything more than a 5th rounder either. Moss wiped his butt on the goalpost at Lambeau. #### him.

What exactly is injury prone?

You are a raving lunatic right now!

1. Jennings has yet to prove HE is any more than a #2 or 3 receiver at his best (which we saw for what? 3 games last year?)

I do know this about Jennings...he's better than Chad Jackson. I remember alot of Packer fans raked Thompson over the coals for passing him up and that's looked like a good move. Look I'm not a huge fan of this draft however it's premature to go off the deep end. Also Thompson has been spending money. Locking up proven players like Harris, Jenkins and Barnett to long term deals. Thompson's been a pretty solid GM so far...it's amazing how short your memory is. I'd much rather have someone like Thompson, who's wise with his money and actually has a draft plan and sticks to it.

 

[Man in the yellow hat]

And btw - Ted Thompson had a terrible draft - less for the players he took, than those he passed on and the moves he didn't make.

He got possibly the steal of the draft in Desmond Bishop.

Slow and stiff, but a sure tackler and leader. May improve the special teams if he can beat out Tracey White for a roster spot. The problem is, the kid from Boise is very similar and was drafted almost purely for his ability on special teams as neither Bishop nor he will likely beat out Abdul Hodge or Nick Barnett for a spot at real playing time.

The kid from Boise will likely be playing Fullback.

I am sure you have a link that will corroborate this. If it is conjecture on your part, MORE POWER TO YOU!! You are thinking outside the box and that's what criticism is all about!!

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=596895Listen there. First question to Hall is about moving him to fullback.

 

[gregjcross]

Looking back at early first round busts of thhe last 4 drafts....

The rate seems consistent at around 1/3 of the picks being busts

Examples:

The 2002 draft was the worst *18* bust first rounders

The 2003 draft: a little better talent, *14* bust first rounders

The 2004 draft: lived up to the billing, only *9* busts

The 2005 draft: *5* busts busts at this point, A. Rogers, Alex Smith and Jason Campbell get one more year.

2002 Pick

1 Houston David Carr QB Fresno State --- Bust

3 Detroit Joey Harrington QB Oregon --- Bust

6 Kansas City Ryan Sims DT North Carolina --- Bust for where he went

12 Arizona Wendell Bryant DT Wisconsin --- Bust

13 New Orleans Donte' Stallworth WR Tennessee --- Bust for where he went

15 Tennessee Albert Haynesworth DT Tennessee --- Bust for where he went

16 Cleveland William Green RB Boston College --- Bust

17 Oakland Phillip Buchanon CB Miami --- Bust

18 Atlanta T.J. Duckett RB Michigan State --- Bust

19 Denver Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii --- Bust for where he went

21 New England Daniel Graham TE Colorado --- Bust for where he went

22 N.Y. Jets Bryan Thomas DE Ala.-Birmingham --- Bust for where he went

23 Oakland Napoleon Harris MLB Northwestern --- Bust for where he went

27 San Francisco Mike Rumph CB Miami --- Bust

28 Seattle Jerramy Stevens TE Washington --- Bust for where he went

31 St. Louis Robert Thomas MLB UCLA --- Bust

32 Washington Patrick Ramsey QB Tulane --- Bust

2003 pick

2 Detroit Charles Rogers WR Michigan State

5 Dallas Terence Newman CB Kansas State

6 New Orleans Johnathan Sullivan NT Georgia ---

7 Jacksonville Byron Leftwich QB Marshall

12 St. Louis Jimmy Kennedy NT Penn State

14 Chicago Michael Haynes DE Penn State

15 Philadelphia Jerome McDougle DE Miami

17 Arizona Bryant Johnson WR Penn State

18 Arizona Calvin Pace OLB Wake Forest

19 Baltimore Kyle Boller QB California

25 N.Y. Giants William Joseph DT Miami

26 San Francisco Kwame Harris T Stanford

28 Tennessee Andre Woolfolk CB Oklahoma

30 San Diego Sammy Davis CB Texas A&M

2004 Draft

2 Oakland Robert Gallery T Iowa

9 Jacksonville Reggie Williams WR Washington

19 Miami Vernon Carey T Miami -

20 Minnesota Kenechi Udeze DE Southern California

25 Green Bay Ahmad Carroll CB Arkansas

26 Cincinnati Chris Perry RB Michigan

27 Houston Jason Babin DE Western Michigan

29 Atlanta Michael Jenkins WR Ohio State

31 San Francisco Rashaun Woods WR Oklahoma State

2006 pick

7 Minnesota Troy Williamson WR South Carolina

10 Detroit Mike Williams WR Southern California

17 Cincinnati David Pollack OLB Georgia

21 Jacksonville Matt Jones WR Arkansas

27 Atlanta Roddy White WR Ala.-Birmingham

 

[Sidewinder]

Objectively this doesn't hold up though. Fans are emotional. They want the home run. I can speak most directly for the Eagles. The fans booed incessantly when Reid drafted McNabb over Ricky Williams. Who was right? The media and fans KILLED him when he drafted three defensive backs in the first two rounds (Sheppard, Brown, Lewis) when the Birds had three Pro Bowl players (Taylor, Vincent, Dawkins) already on the roster. Turns out, again, it was a brilliant move. The team lost their minds when Reid let Trotter leave for D.C. Same holds true when the Birds let "team leader" Hugh Douglas leave for Jacksonville. Both turned out to be the right moves AND both guys came back to the Eagles for veteran minimum contracts. Some teams are going to have horrible drafts. Some are going to have brilliant drafts. And we, as football fanatics, are going to have passionate and immediate reactions EVEN THOUGH there's very little logic to thinking we have a better handle on things than the people paid to do this for a living.Do I think the Eagles had a bad draft? Absolutely. As a fan I'm disappointed because it's not what I think we needed. But I also understand that I'm having an emotional reaction that's not in any way based on the true outcome of this draft or any other teams for that matter.My $0.02

Do you have a copyright on this, or can I lift it and post for the complainers on the Saints board I frequent ? btw ...

 

[PatsWillWin]

I thought the reason that Moss isn't a Packer is because he wouldn't re-do his contract to go there.

People continue to ignore this. I'm not sure why.

Green Bay has more than enough cap space to have paid Moss (just as they did "malcontent" Charles Woodson who led the team in INT's). They didn't NEED to renegotiate, Ted Thompson wanted to feel like a big man and force it. You gonna take that cap money to the grave Ted?

If Moss didn't want to go to Green Bay, then you don't want him in Green Bay. Certainly not at $10 million.#### on the draft if you want, I can understand that - but not trading for a $10 million pissed off Moss isn't a bad non-move.

 

[_4_]

BTW...remember, criticism is not necessarily negative - have an opinion positive or negative - that's the point of this thread.

I just can't stand the stance of "how can we possibly judge........" geez....get a backbone and a mind of your own! Step up on the box and have an opinion!

 

[_4_]

I thought the reason that Moss isn't a Packer is because he wouldn't re-do his contract to go there.

People continue to ignore this. I'm not sure why.

Green Bay has more than enough cap space to have paid Moss (just as they did "malcontent" Charles Woodson who led the team in INT's). They didn't NEED to renegotiate, Ted Thompson wanted to feel like a big man and force it. You gonna take that cap money to the grave Ted?

If Moss didn't want to go to Green Bay, then you don't want him in Green Bay. Certainly not at $10 million.#### on the draft if you want, I can understand that - but not trading for a $10 million pissed off Moss isn't a bad non-move.

Moss NEVER SAID he didn't want to go to Green Bay. He EVEN said he may have renegotiated with the Packers, BUT said - "who wouldn't want to play in New England". He had a preference, sure, but NEVER said a bad word about Green Bay or the Packers.

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

I had no problems criticizing Mike Sherman for TRADING UP to draft B.J. Sander in the 3rd round in the 2004 draft.

 

[Chaos Commish]

And btw - Ted Thompson had a terrible draft - less for the players he took, than those he passed on and the moves he didn't make.

Okay, if you think he should have made moves, you better be able to document that the moves were available, or you're being a dreamer.That said, what moves should he have taken and what players shouldn't he have passed on?

 

[WhoDat]

Objectively this doesn't hold up though. Fans are emotional. They want the home run. I can speak most directly for the Eagles. The fans booed incessantly when Reid drafted McNabb over Ricky Williams. Who was right? The media and fans KILLED him when he drafted three defensive backs in the first two rounds (Sheppard, Brown, Lewis) when the Birds had three Pro Bowl players (Taylor, Vincent, Dawkins) already on the roster. Turns out, again, it was a brilliant move. The team lost their minds when Reid let Trotter leave for D.C. Same holds true when the Birds let "team leader" Hugh Douglas leave for Jacksonville. Both turned out to be the right moves AND both guys came back to the Eagles for veteran minimum contracts. Some teams are going to have horrible drafts. Some are going to have brilliant drafts. And we, as football fanatics, are going to have passionate and immediate reactions EVEN THOUGH there's very little logic to thinking we have a better handle on things than the people paid to do this for a living.Do I think the Eagles had a bad draft? Absolutely. As a fan I'm disappointed because it's not what I think we needed. But I also understand that I'm having an emotional reaction that's not in any way based on the true outcome of this draft or any other teams for that matter.My $0.02

 

[Phurfur]

First off, remember criticize means to make judgments as to merits and faults.

The people who come on here and say, "You don't know anything yet. You can't criticize a draft until they get in pads and watch them play" blah blah blah....

You can criticize because you CAN find fault as a fan who has seen a team's strengths and deficiencies. I believe those who say "You can't criticize..." are weak thinkers, lemmings. They think that's the apropos thing to say if you are a "smart" fan - I believe the opposite is true - form a fact based opinion, sprinkled with subjective conjecture and share it, Mary.

With media today providing coverage of every player on the planet, it isn't difficult to evaluate a draft. Will some surprise? Sure, but how many Marquese Colston's were there compared to busts who didn't make a team??

And btw - Ted Thompson had a terrible draft - less for the players he took, than those he passed on and the moves he didn't make.

And those that do criticize are not held acountable for their opinions so they are actually meaningless."it isn't difficult to evaluate a draft." This statement alone shows you have no clue.

 

[Pipes]

BTW...remember, criticism is not necessarily negative - have an opinion positive or negative - that's the point of this thread.I just can't stand the stance of "how can we possibly judge........" geez....get a backbone and a mind of your own! Step up on the box and have an opinion!

Waiting to pass judgement until we actually see the product on the field is not "lacking a backbone" it's called common sense. For the record I wasn't estatic with the selection of Harrell but I'm not ready to run Thompson out of town either.

 

[_4_]

First off, remember criticize means to make judgments as to merits and faults.

The people who come on here and say, "You don't know anything yet. You can't criticize a draft until they get in pads and watch them play" blah blah blah....

You can criticize because you CAN find fault as a fan who has seen a team's strengths and deficiencies. I believe those who say "You can't criticize..." are weak thinkers, lemmings. They think that's the apropos thing to say if you are a "smart" fan - I believe the opposite is true - form a fact based opinion, sprinkled with subjective conjecture and share it, Mary.

With media today providing coverage of every player on the planet, it isn't difficult to evaluate a draft. Will some surprise? Sure, but how many Marquese Colston's were there compared to busts who didn't make a team??

And btw - Ted Thompson had a terrible draft - less for the players he took, than those he passed on and the moves he didn't make.

And those that do criticize are not held acountable for their opinions so they are actually meaningless."it isn't difficult to evaluate a draft." This statement alone shows you have no clue.

Given a healthy dose of information on any subject with which I am even remotely familiar, I can make an evaluation. Now, that is not to say that the evaluation may summarily be negated (or confirmed) through actual play in the NFL, but I can CERTAINLY make an evaluation. If a person is unable to do so, it tells me a whole lot about said person.1. They lack the ability to process information and form opinions.

and/or

2. They lack the backbone to think for themselves and form opinions.

and/or

3. They are lemmings who attach themselves to the crowd and see not for themselves.

and/or

4. They aren't that bright.

It is a criticism of a draft to praise it, to object to aspects thereof, or even, if well thought out to play the little game that prompted this thread and say - "I just don't have enough information." For instance, one could argue, though I would disagree, that the pick of Harrell should fall under the wait and see - maybe his ridiculous history of injury will suddenly disappear once he is playing against bigger, stronger, faster athletes. Maybe 5 of the 8 productive defensive lineman on the Packers will die in a horrible mini-van accident. Maybe a WR or TE who can stretch the field and run after the catch will fall out of the sky and land on the Oneida practice field. I sorta doubt it...but you could make those arguments.

To sit back and say, "It's too early to evaluate the draft", is beyond weak and I lose a ton of respect for anyone who takes that hackneyed approach. I am sure you have no respect for me because I take the information available to me (and you and everyone else) and form an opinion. Makes no nevermind to me.

 

[roadkill1292]

First off, remember criticize means to make judgments as to merits and faults.

The people who come on here and say, "You don't know anything yet. You can't criticize a draft until they get in pads and watch them play" blah blah blah....

You can criticize because you CAN find fault as a fan who has seen a team's strengths and deficiencies. I believe those who say "You can't criticize..." are weak thinkers, lemmings. They think that's the apropos thing to say if you are a "smart" fan - I believe the opposite is true - form a fact based opinion, sprinkled with subjective conjecture and share it, Mary.

With media today providing coverage of every player on the planet, it isn't difficult to evaluate a draft. Will some surprise? Sure, but how many Marquese Colston's were there compared to busts who didn't make a team??

And btw - Ted Thompson had a terrible draft - less for the players he took, than those he passed on and the moves he didn't make.

And those that do criticize are not held acountable for their opinions so they are actually meaningless."it isn't difficult to evaluate a draft." This statement alone shows you have no clue.

Given a healthy dose of information on any subject with which I am even remotely familiar, I can make an evaluation. Now, that is not to say that the evaluation may summarily be negated (or confirmed) through actual play in the NFL, but I can CERTAINLY make an evaluation. If a person is unable to do so, it tells me a whole lot about said person.1. They lack the ability to process information and form opinions.

and/or

2. They lack the backbone to think for themselves and form opinions.

and/or

3. They are lemmings who attach themselves to the crowd and see not for themselves.

and/or

4. They aren't that bright.

It is a criticism of a draft to praise it, to object to aspects thereof, or even, if well thought out to play the little game that prompted this thread and say - "I just don't have enough information." For instance, one could argue, though I would disagree, that the pick of Harrell should fall under the wait and see - maybe his ridiculous history of injury will suddenly disappear once he is playing against bigger, stronger, faster athletes. Maybe 5 of the 8 productive defensive lineman on the Packers will die in a horrible mini-van accident. Maybe a WR or TE who can stretch the field and run after the catch will fall out of the sky and land on the Oneida practice field. I sorta doubt it...but you could make those arguments.

To sit back and say, "It's too early to evaluate the draft", is beyond weak and I lose a ton of respect for anyone who takes that hackneyed approach. I am sure you have no respect for me because I take the information available to me (and you and everyone else) and form an opinion. Makes no nevermind to me.

It's too early to evaluate this post.

 

[renesauz]

Objectively this doesn't hold up though. Fans are emotional. They want the home run. I can speak most directly for the Eagles. The fans booed incessantly when Reid drafted McNabb over Ricky Williams. Who was right? The media and fans KILLED him when he drafted three defensive backs in the first two rounds (Sheppard, Brown, Lewis) when the Birds had three Pro Bowl players (Taylor, Vincent, Dawkins) already on the roster. Turns out, again, it was a brilliant move. The team lost their minds when Reid let Trotter leave for D.C. Same holds true when the Birds let "team leader" Hugh Douglas leave for Jacksonville. Both turned out to be the right moves AND both guys came back to the Eagles for veteran minimum contracts.

Some teams are going to have horrible drafts. Some are going to have brilliant drafts. And we, as football fanatics, are going to have passionate and immediate reactions EVEN THOUGH there's very little logic to thinking we have a better handle on things than the people paid to do this for a living.

Do I think the Eagles had a bad draft? Absolutely. As a fan I'm disappointed because it's not what I think we needed. But I also understand that I'm having an emotional reaction that's not in any way based on the true outcome of this draft or any other teams for that matter.

My $0.02

This get's my nomination as the post of the day!

First off, remember criticize means to make judgments as to merits and faults.

The people who come on here and say, "You don't know anything yet. You can't criticize a draft until they get in pads and watch them play" blah blah blah....

You can criticize because you CAN find fault as a fan who has seen a team's strengths and deficiencies. I believe those who say "You can't criticize..." are weak thinkers, lemmings. They think that's the apropos thing to say if you are a "smart" fan - I believe the opposite is true - form a fact based opinion, sprinkled with subjective conjecture and share it, Mary.

With media today providing coverage of every player on the planet, it isn't difficult to evaluate a draft. Will some surprise? Sure, but how many Marquese Colston's were there compared to busts who didn't make a team??

And btw - Ted Thompson had a terrible draft - less for the players he took, than those he passed on and the moves he didn't make.

And those that do criticize are not held acountable for their opinions so they are actually meaningless."it isn't difficult to evaluate a draft." This statement alone shows you have no clue.

Given a healthy dose of information on any subject with which I am even remotely familiar, I can make an evaluation. Now, that is not to say that the evaluation may summarily be negated (or confirmed) through actual play in the NFL, but I can CERTAINLY make an evaluation. If a person is unable to do so, it tells me a whole lot about said person.1. They lack the ability to process information and form opinions.

and/or

2. They lack the backbone to think for themselves and form opinions.

and/or

3. They are lemmings who attach themselves to the crowd and see not for themselves.

and/or

4. They aren't that bright.

It is a criticism of a draft to praise it, to object to aspects thereof, or even, if well thought out to play the little game that prompted this thread and say - "I just don't have enough information." For instance, one could argue, though I would disagree, that the pick of Harrell should fall under the wait and see - maybe his ridiculous history of injury will suddenly disappear once he is playing against bigger, stronger, faster athletes. Maybe 5 of the 8 productive defensive lineman on the Packers will die in a horrible mini-van accident. Maybe a WR or TE who can stretch the field and run after the catch will fall out of the sky and land on the Oneida practice field. I sorta doubt it...but you could make those arguments.

To sit back and say, "It's too early to evaluate the draft", is beyond weak and I lose a ton of respect for anyone who takes that hackneyed approach. I am sure you have no respect for me because I take the information available to me (and you and everyone else) and form an opinion. Makes no nevermind to me.

And this guy gets my nomiation as tool of the week.The Lemmings are the ones who fall into the mob mentality and become hyper-critical of a draft. It's ok to have an opinion...nobody EVER said it wasn't. It isn't ok to portray yourself as a better talent evaluator, scout, and manager then the guys getting paid to do it. It's OK to be critical, it's not ok to act like Philly fans did with McNabb, or some fans are doing with Ginn.

I am firmly in the crowd that says it's assinine to "grade" any draft for 3 years. I have decided to never again place "A", "B" type designations on any teams draft, because as a thinking man, I KNOW the grades will be wrong when viewed four years from now. Is it an unthinking, lemming attitude to say I know I'm wrong about half the players I look at? I don't think so....I believe it's wrong in the extreme take the stance that you're right about most of the players you look at, and therefore declare yourself knwledgeable enough to fairly grade a draft before the players even take one regular season snap.

My OPINION is that Philly's draft was bad. Kolb was a wasted pick, and they went DE way too early. My OPINION is that Ginn will have a career not unlike another undersized speedy returner/WR in KC. I'm not afraid to voice an opinion, but I will not "grade".

 

[Franknbeans]

Objectively this doesn't hold up though. Fans are emotional. They want the home run. I can speak most directly for the Eagles. The fans booed incessantly when Reid drafted McNabb over Ricky Williams. Who was right? The media and fans KILLED him when he drafted three defensive backs in the first two rounds (Sheppard, Brown, Lewis) when the Birds had three Pro Bowl players (Taylor, Vincent, Dawkins) already on the roster. Turns out, again, it was a brilliant move. The team lost their minds when Reid let Trotter leave for D.C. Same holds true when the Birds let "team leader" Hugh Douglas leave for Jacksonville. Both turned out to be the right moves AND both guys came back to the Eagles for veteran minimum contracts. Some teams are going to have horrible drafts. Some are going to have brilliant drafts. And we, as football fanatics, are going to have passionate and immediate reactions EVEN THOUGH there's very little logic to thinking we have a better handle on things than the people paid to do this for a living.Do I think the Eagles had a bad draft? Absolutely. As a fan I'm disappointed because it's not what I think we needed. But I also understand that I'm having an emotional reaction that's not in any way based on the true outcome of this draft or any other teams for that matter.My $0.02

:(

that and the fact that it is a very inexact science as to who will make a good pro football player. I will defer to the powers that be and not pretend I know more than them, given I just heard some of the players names as little as 2 weeks ago, if that.

 

[Despyzer]

there's very little logic to thinking we have a better handle on things than the people paid to do this for a living.

These are the smartest words of the entire thread.Speculate all you like; that's what the off-season is all about. But don't pretend you know more than the guys who are getting paid for this, especially the ones who have proven they know what they are doing.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

First off, remember criticize means to make judgments as to merits and faults.

The people who come on here and say, "You don't know anything yet. You can't criticize a draft until they get in pads and watch them play" blah blah blah....

You can criticize because you CAN find fault as a fan who has seen a team's strengths and deficiencies. I believe those who say "You can't criticize..." are weak thinkers, lemmings. They think that's the apropos thing to say if you are a "smart" fan - I believe the opposite is true - form a fact based opinion, sprinkled with subjective conjecture and share it, Mary.

With media today providing coverage of every player on the planet, it isn't difficult to evaluate a draft. Will some surprise? Sure, but how many Marquese Colston's were there compared to busts who didn't make a team??

And btw - Ted Thompson had a terrible draft - less for the players he took, than those he passed on and the moves he didn't make.

I do no criticize team's drafts because I know that I have not seen anywhere near enough of the players to make a substantive opinion on them. Now, there are typically 5 or 6 player who I have seen enough to know if I'd rather have or avoid them, but I'm not naive enough to think because I've read Kiper's mock, or saw the combine/pro day results, or read nfl.com's strength and weaknesses that I can have a strong opinion on a player.To heavily criticize a draft pick, a sane, logical person would have to have watched several of that player's games and the games of other players at that position. Without being given gametapes of most of the players, I don't see how a normal or even superfan can have access to tools necessary to "know" a player.

 

[phthalatemagic]

First off, remember criticize means to make judgments as to merits and faults. The people who come on here and say, "You don't know anything yet. You can't criticize a draft until they get in pads and watch them play" blah blah blah....You can criticize because you CAN find fault as a fan who has seen a team's strengths and deficiencies. I believe those who say "You can't criticize..." are weak thinkers, lemmings. They think that's the apropos thing to say if you are a "smart" fan - I believe the opposite is true - form a fact based opinion, sprinkled with subjective conjecture and share it, Mary.With media today providing coverage of every player on the planet, it isn't difficult to evaluate a draft. Will some surprise? Sure, but how many Marquese Colston's were there compared to busts who didn't make a team??And btw - Ted Thompson had a terrible draft - less for the players he took, than those he passed on and the moves he didn't make.

I agree!You also can compare apples and oranges. I have no idea why people keep saying you can't.

 

[Mahoney]

Objectively this doesn't hold up though. Fans are emotional. They want the home run. I can speak most directly for the Eagles. The fans booed incessantly when Reid drafted McNabb over Ricky Williams. Who was right? The media and fans KILLED him when he drafted three defensive backs in the first two rounds (Sheppard, Brown, Lewis) when the Birds had three Pro Bowl players (Taylor, Vincent, Dawkins) already on the roster. Turns out, again, it was a brilliant move. The team lost their minds when Reid let Trotter leave for D.C. Same holds true when the Birds let "team leader" Hugh Douglas leave for Jacksonville. Both turned out to be the right moves AND both guys came back to the Eagles for veteran minimum contracts. Some teams are going to have horrible drafts. Some are going to have brilliant drafts. And we, as football fanatics, are going to have passionate and immediate reactions EVEN THOUGH there's very little logic to thinking we have a better handle on things than the people paid to do this for a living.Do I think the Eagles had a bad draft? Absolutely. As a fan I'm disappointed because it's not what I think we needed. But I also understand that I'm having an emotional reaction that's not in any way based on the true outcome of this draft or any other teams for that matter.My $0.02

I agree with this perspecitve. Although one part of the argument I think is incomplete. I hear the Eagles front office get alot of credit for making the unpopular choice of drafting McNabb in 1999. About how that was clearly the best move for the franchise, regardless of what all those crazy Eagle fans in MSG thought.Was it? If they took Ricky Williams or Edge James with that pick, the following year they could have drafted Chad Pennington, Tom Brady or Marc Bulger. Not one of the Eagles draft picks from 2000 is still on the team. Maybe that is the ultimate hindsight 20/20, but I seldom see that part of the picture brought into focus. I don't know that McNabb was the right call. He's a great player, but could alternative routes served them better? Quite possibly.

 

[CalBear]

If they took Ricky Williams or Edge James with that pick, the following year they could have drafted Chad Pennington, Tom Brady or Marc Bulger.

You're cherry-picking. They also could have drafted Giovanni Carmazzi, Chris Redman, Tee Martin, or Spergon Wynn in 2000; how do you know they would have known to wait for Bulger or Brady over any of those choices? And I don't think the Eagles would be better off with Ricky Williams and Chad Pennington than with McNabb and Corey Simon; Simon played out his rookie contract with the Eagles and was successful there.

 

[jtnt1096]

Personally, I really don't see how anyone can critique or review a draft a few days after the draft happens. Guys that look like steals, busts, great picks, bad picks, etc., all are just opinions at this point.

Draft reviews should be done 3-4 years after the draft when we can see how players have developed and fit into their roles.

Doing reviews and critiques now is just a waste of time IMHO.

 

[Steel Mike Tomczak]

2 points that are being left out

1. Didn't Green Bay make a fine trade with the Steelers to gain an extra pick as Pittsburgh drafted a punter?

2. How long can Philadelphia expect McNabb to perform? 2 years at most the way I see it. Kolb may be starting by the end of this year for all we know! Thats quite the reach, but is Kelly Holcomb really their hope of the future, or Feeley?