Leading your team to a mere 21 points would be a choke if 10 of them came after the opposing defense went into "prevent" mode, and limited you to 11 points when the game mattered. On the other hand 21 points may not be choking if you're legitimately in the game to the end and lose on a last minute FG or something of the sort.
So for example, if someone led his team to a shutout, when the game mattered, would that be a choke? In the past you seem to have denied that. What if someone led his team to three points? I know 11 is bad, but that's if the game mattered. What if it was just three, for the whole game (not just the parts that matter even if you close the game to one score with minutes left on the clock because the game doesn't matter at that point). What if you are in playing catch up, and you throw an interception to Troy Polamalu, and then it gets overturned, and you get a TD against the prevent defense and then your defense somehow comes up with a magical fumble from Bettis but you don't get the score but then you still get one last shot and then you still blow it and take a sack then blame your offensive line? Is that a choke? Because you've been absolutely adamant that that one wasn't a choke. It's hard to tell which ones are chokes and which ones aren't by your definition. I'd say Brady's performance in this game was better than any of those, but I'm just using your definition.
The problem is, when you call it a choke, the underperforming has to be completely emotional - inability to deal with stress, etc. Rarely have I seen that out of Manning. I've seen some games where he was totally confused by a defense (2002 versus the Jets, 2003 versus New England, 2006 versus Baltimore - all great defenses). I've seen games where Manning has been throwing with pinpoint precision, and his WRs have had the drops (like this year's playoff game). Neither one of those are a "choke" because Manning wasn't folding under the pressure of the big lights.The game against Pittsburgh you cite, when Manning threw two perfect passes to Wayne which he dropped, and then Vanderjagt missed the tying field goal? Manning threw 0 INTs, had a 90.9 passer rating - hardly even close to "choking." He put them in position to take the game into overtime at the bare minimum, and would have had them in position to win if Wayne hadn't dropped those balls. How anyone could say that is a choke is ridiculous.The game you cite versus NE where the Colts only scored 3 points, was very similar to the Jets game this year. Peyton tried to take what NE gave him, which were check downs to Edge and Stokely, and running. Except Edge couldn't run the ball (I remember he looked AWFUL that day). The INT he threw was a desperation throw at the end of the game. He fumbled on a sack which Jeff Saturday fell on, and had two drives killed by Harrison and Rhodes fumbles. New England held the ball for nearly 40 minutes. This wasn't a "choke" by Manning, but the Pats did dominate the Colts on both sides of the ball.Frankly, I'm sure there have been a game or two where Manning had "happy feet", I even recall an article commenting on it after a game, I just don't remember which one. And in that case, I would say Manning "choked." But it's for that very same reason that I say Brady choke in his last two playoff games. Brady can't handle getting hit, can't take pressure, and gets easily thrown off his game if he's knocked around at all. He had very happy feet at the very beginning of the Jets game, and he had happy feet against BAL last year.Choking doesn't come down to points, turnovers, etc. It's about composure. Sure, a lack of composure often results in turnovers, but turnovers don't always mean a lack of composure (sometimes balls get tipped, DBs make great plays, defenses scheme to confuse QBs well). You can't deal in absolutes, when nothing in football is absolute and there are a minimum of 22 parts involved on the field for any given play.Manning's teams have lost when he's played great. Manning's teams have won when he's played terribly. The same can be said for Brady. Neither is a frequent "choker", nor is either "the most clutch player in the NFL." And there are things that happen on the field that are out of their control, that help and hinder them from winning.This year, Brady choked against the Jets, while Manning did not. Sure, Brady put up more yards, he also threw it 20 more time than Manning, but only completed 10 more passes and threw an INT. Brady's passer rating was in the 50's in the first half, and finished under 90, Manning's passer rating was 108.9. Manning averaged 3 yards higher in A/YA than Brady. So, as you can clearly see, points and yards are not an indicator of who played better, who choked or did not.If there is something I would have liked to see from Manning against the Jets - take a shot against Revis. Try at least more that a stupid WR screen. IMO he was overly cautious, and not aggressive enough. He felt he could win by running the ball, and taking what the D gave. And if the running game had been able to convert some third downs, it's likely they would have won the game. If the ST hadn't given up the long return, if Caldwell didn't call the stupid TO, they would have won. Last time I checked, Manning doesn't control the OL, RBs, ST play, or coaches calling TOs. Maybe you believe differently. But I'd have a hard time calling a QB a choker when he does everything needed to win the game, and the loss is obviously on other components of the team. Most of Manning's playoff losses have not been due to his play, and some that have weren't necessarily due to him choking, rather great defense on the other side.
It's amazing how perception and selective memory can stray from reality. Here are their career postseason stats:
It's amazing how perception and selective memory can stray from reality. Here are their career postseason stats:
wned:
It's amazing how perception and selective memory can stray from reality. Here are their career postseason stats:
Disclaimer: I'm a Colts fan and was at both of their SB games. Having said that...I hate the argument of Brady vs Manning. It makes me argue against how great a player Brady really is.
Disclaimer: I'm a Colts fan and was at both of their SB games. Having said that...I hate the argument of Brady vs Manning. It makes me argue against how great a player Brady really is.
