Phenoms going under (2 Viewers)

[Bri]

Mike has been a decent guy here. I was surprised by this news. He frequented this board for years and was "one of us." He started Phenoms and a lot of people went there because it was him and how he handled things.

I don't know half you here personally, but ya come here for years and idk...there's something to seeing this guy or that guy's posts over n over day in day out. On the one hand I feel bad for him because I'd be breathing fire at a designer if they wanted to charge me 4x+ what I was quoted. On the other, because he was someone you all "know" I imagine that bred a bit of trust and you feel betrayed among other things.

This really stinks.

As far as the posts about him removing his social media accounts- Really? Like one of you regulars here wouldn't do the same thing? And geesh you guys looked up his tax records and posted a pic of his house and address and....I have little doubt he thought "OMG the FFA is gonna kill me"

I imagine a FFA lynching and he's getting it. It just really stinks to watch and be an observer. I feel bad for all of you involved. I hope this works out in some way where you can at least get some peace.

Good Luck with this

Madoff was a helluva guy until everyone found out he stole their money.

Good luck with it all, hope it works out for you

 

[fasteddie_21]

wow. Played a lot in the past but not for a while. Always first class leagues. Very surprised

This.

 

[cstu]

Mike has been a decent guy here. I was surprised by this news. He frequented this board for years and was "one of us." He started Phenoms and a lot of people went there because it was him and how he handled things.

I don't know half you here personally, but ya come here for years and idk...there's something to seeing this guy or that guy's posts over n over day in day out. On the one hand I feel bad for him because I'd be breathing fire at a designer if they wanted to charge me 4x+ what I was quoted. On the other, because he was someone you all "know" I imagine that bred a bit of trust and you feel betrayed among other things.

This really stinks.

As far as the posts about him removing his social media accounts- Really? Like one of you regulars here wouldn't do the same thing? And geesh you guys looked up his tax records and posted a pic of his house and address and....I have little doubt he thought "OMG the FFA is gonna kill me"

I imagine a FFA lynching and he's getting it. It just really stinks to watch and be an observer. I feel bad for all of you involved. I hope this works out in some way where you can at least get some peace.

Good Luck with this

Madoff was a helluva guy until everyone found out he stole their money.

Good luck with it all, hope it works out for you

I wasn't in any Phenoms leagues, just know a scam when I see one.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

From what I've seen this was just a middle man using MFL.com and selling it as a service? Maybe I'm way off in that assessment... I'm just going by the links to his leagues posted earlier.

No, that's pretty much what he was doing. The value of his site was the customer base and league integrity. All of us playing knew it was just a guy coordinating leagues. His reputation was everything.

Others have stated they do, but I don't see the great value in user base at this point. Unless this software is something unique, don't see great value there either. You really think owners are just going to trust someone new next year (if someone took over)?

I'll have to review i(and someone probably remembers better than i), but didn't AFFL fail to pay one year.......got taken over (returning owners got some credits) and then AFFL failed to pay out second year (I think winner eventually wound up getting $$ after lawsuit if I remember correctly). This smells like the same thing.

 

[atcdav]

I have never heard of Phemoms. Guess I am glad of that. Good luck.

 

[Hooper31]

I wasn't in any Phenoms leagues, just know a scam when I see one.

You weren't even in any of the leagues? Just a casual passer by that read something on a message board and you're ready to convict?

Never shocked to see people primed and ready to throw the first stone.

 

[Mike]

Damn, I spent ton of tonight's game reading every post here after seeing it mentioned on Twitter. Unbelievable someone running leagues for ~10 years with such a reputation can let this happen. It isn't like Unlucky wasn't aware of the AFFL debacle and this is the exact same script. Inexcusable. My sincere sympathies to everyone impacted.

Hoping to add to the discussion (while trying to not send people into a panic), something I've actually thought about recently is advice for people who have money on account particularly at some of the smaller daily fantasy sites (yes, I realize I operate one myself). Smaller I would suggest is anything other than FanDuel or DraftKings. If you have money sitting there, strongly consider withdrawing it soon before the end of football season. Or just leave what little you plan to play and/or can afford to lose for the final four weeks of NFL+DFS (16, 17, WC and DP) and take out the rest.

If one of these upstart sites is going to go under because things aren't going well, then it seems to me a higher probability it happens after football season. FF just dominates the % of market in fantasy sports so much, including baseball, it can look like a long time to the sites before next football season. Obviously I hope nothing like this happens, further tarnishing the industry, but better safe than sorry for consumers. My 2 cents.

 

[TheWalk84]

I really wonder how this whole thing will end...

To me, depending how much cash he actually has, if he is sincere about trying his best, he could do something like

If he has closer to 40%- eliminate paying player with season high score, and then 50% of the current prize pool for 1-3...

If he has closer to 20%- eliminate the paying player with season high score, and only pay top 2 30-35% of winnings..

What I am concerned about most is he just decides it is not worth paying out the little he does have left (if he really did blow the money)..

I am still holding out hope that someone comes in and infuses Phenoms with cash to get through December...

The only way the community possibly survives this is if EVERYONE who has earned the right to collect winnings is made whole, call me naive, but I am still holding out hope Mike pulls something off and we can breathe a little easier!

 

[fridayfrenzy]

To the people saying this is just an unlucky owner going out of business need to give their head a shake.

He used prize money that wasn't his and explicitly indicated that it was held in trust on his website. If he wanted to just go out of business without a lynch mob after him then he should have been a man of his word and not touched the prize pool. Pretty damn simple.

 

[timschochet]

To the people saying this is just an unlucky owner going out of business need to give their head a shake.

He used prize money that wasn't his and explicitly indicated that it was held in trust on his website. If he wanted to just go out of business without a lynch mob after him then he should have been a man of his word and not touched the prize pool. Pretty damn simple.

Exactly. He might be a really nice guy. He might have meant for none of this to happen. He might be genuinely sorry. He might be trying to fix it the best he can. None of that matters because ultimately he stole people's money. It wasn't his to use. There can be no explanation, no excuse. We have the right to cast stones.

 

[Mister CIA]

Is this guy for hire?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111127724/3746162-5095534666-33103.jpg

 

[Dizzy]

I wasn't in any Phenoms leagues, just know a scam when I see one.

You weren't even in any of the leagues? Just a casual passer by that read something on a message board and you're ready to convict?

Never shocked to see people primed and ready to throw the first stone.

Well, to be fair - and I really do feel bad for those that got hosed on here - this thread is far and away the most interesting topic to appear in the Shark Pool since I've been a member. Can't blame outsiders for looking in.

Maybe it does take someone unaffected to truly see this for what it is. Because it looks really bad if Mike wasn't an internet acquaintance. A con artist's best friend in a lot of cases are their victims... nobody likes to broadcast that they've been ripped off.

 

[thetman]

There are a lot of interesting posts. I honestly don't know what to think at this point. I don't see this ending well. I really think it's tough for me to trust any website now.

 

[ThumbTrigger]

Man using prize money to invest in your business is pretty messed up. I really hope that some authorities are able to do a thorough investigation of this whole situation. What a mess. I've played phenoms for a few years now, and finally made it to the finals but it looks like it will all be for nothing. Is there any evidence that he even paid out a website developer or are we just taking his word for it? That would kill me if it was like his brother's company or something that he contracted out. This whole thing seems super shady.

 

[cstu]

Man using prize money to invest in your business is pretty messed up. I really hope that some authorities are able to do a thorough investigation of this whole situation. What a mess. I've played phenoms for a few years now, and finally made it to the finals but it looks like it will all be for nothing. Is there any evidence that he even paid out a website developer or are we just taking his word for it? That would kill me if it was like his brother's company or something that he contracted out. This whole thing seems super shady.

No evidence whatsoever.

 

[cstu]

I wasn't in any Phenoms leagues, just know a scam when I see one.

You weren't even in any of the leagues? Just a casual passer by that read something on a message board and you're ready to convict?

Never shocked to see people primed and ready to throw the first stone.

Why on earth would you buy this 'web development' story? It sounds like something the Enron guys would come up with. C'mon, open your eyes, folks.

 

[cstu]

Another thing being completely overlooked is that the entire site was run by some guy from a $100k condo and he had access to $1M in deposits. Did he even have another job besides running this site? People have screwed people over for a lot less money.

 

[ThumbTrigger]

Ya seriously. Like it would've taken years to make up for the initial investment, so I don't understand how after spending all that money that there was a scenario where he could have paid everyone out. Like after spending $500000 don't you stop and think hey I wonder if there is enough money left to payout the prizes because the only revenue I have coming in is from hockey and basketball leagues in the next couple of months and that is next to nothing. At the very least he knew his business was in huge trouble for at least a year and still guaranteed payouts. My guess is that he was in a huge hole financially before this season started and went into the season knowing that he had to get what he could out of phenoms through registration fees this fall to make up for his complete mismanagement of the company. He must have known going into this season that he wouldn't be able to make the payouts but decided to take people's money anyways. Either that or this is a total madoff type long con.

 

[Yamato]

I was kinda hoping that I would lose the Phenom playoff games I was in. Well looks like I'm gonna win 4 out of the 5 games. One being an Omega league. So this ratcheds up the "taking my money" conversation. Wonder how loud the cries will be after next weeks finale?

 

[Army Eye]

Hey guys,

This sucks and I was as pissed as everybody else when I got the email. But Mike was not (and is not) trying to take off with our money. Yes, he co-mingled player deposits and operating accounts, and he made some poor business decisions , but he wasn't trying to screw everybody. He is diligently trying to find a work out and I know some folks are in discussions with him in regards to this. Let's hope somebody will take this challenge and make an opportunity out of it.

You have first hand knowledge of this? If so, I would refer to this message as "Exhibit A"

Mike implicitly admitted it when he said he can't make good on the prize money.

 

[ThumbTrigger]

I was kinda hoping that I would lose the Phenom playoff games I was in. Well looks like I'm gonna win 4 out of the 5 games. One being an Omega league. So this ratcheds up the "taking my money" conversation. Wonder how loud the cries will be after next weeks finale?

Ya I hope I lose next week in mine

 

[Dizzy]

Hey guys,

This sucks and I was as pissed as everybody else when I got the email. But Mike was not (and is not) trying to take off with our money. Yes, he co-mingled player deposits and operating accounts, and he made some poor business decisions , but he wasn't trying to screw everybody. He is diligently trying to find a work out and I know some folks are in discussions with him in regards to this. Let's hope somebody will take this challenge and make an opportunity out of it.

You have first hand knowledge of this? If so, I would refer to this message as "Exhibit A"

Mike implicitly admitted it when he said he can't make good on the prize money.

Agreed, but he didn't say it. BOB's post reads to me as though he has had direct contact with Mike on this matter. Unless his post is completely faith-based (as in, faith in Mike).

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Unfortunately the most alarming thing I read here is that this originates in Utah. Utah, especially the Salt Lake Valley, has long been a hotbed for con artists. Without sounding too offensive, there is a dominant faith out here that requires one to believe a LOT... sadly this same kind of trust makes the region very attractive to con's. Dime a dozen out here (but not saying this is absolutely the case).

Mormons don't play fantasy football. I know they don't dance.

They don't gamble, true... but they love fantasy football as much as the next guy/girl.

Right when I read this tonight, that Cheers scene played in my head

 

[GregR]

Man using prize money to invest in your business is pretty messed up. I really hope that some authorities are able to do a thorough investigation of this whole situation. What a mess. I've played phenoms for a few years now, and finally made it to the finals but it looks like it will all be for nothing. Is there any evidence that he even paid out a website developer or are we just taking his word for it? That would kill me if it was like his brother's company or something that he contracted out. This whole thing seems super shady.

No evidence whatsoever.

I haven't heard of any hard evidence of paying a developer.

But Coin Flip said he and others were lined up to participate in a beta for it but it was delayed several times, which would be in line with it having been delayed.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

If Mike is still checking in on his lineup in Tim's league, his location can be tracked by his IP. Hopefully someone is already doing this.

 

[dc328]

I really wonder how this whole thing will end...

To me, depending how much cash he actually has, if he is sincere about trying his best, he could do something like

If he has closer to 40%- eliminate paying player with season high score, and then 50% of the current prize pool for 1-3...

If he has closer to 20%- eliminate the paying player with season high score, and only pay top 2 30-35% of winnings..

What I am concerned about most is he just decides it is not worth paying out the little he does have left (if he really did blow the money)..

I am still holding out hope that someone comes in and infuses Phenoms with cash to get through December...

The only way the community possibly survives this is if EVERYONE who has earned the right to collect winnings is made whole, call me naive, but I am still holding out hope Mike pulls something off and we can breathe a little easier!

any resolution other than full payouts or full refunds to everyone involved is an unacceptable solution.

that is not a resolution and does nothing to cushion the blow.

would anyone join a $100 league where 20% of the prize pool is paid out? so the house keeps 80%? it is absurd to even think that a "solution" of that manner would be even slightly acceptable.

the fact he is lawyered up means he knew this was coming. this didn't happen 5 days ago. it also shows that he is worried about one thing and that is protecting his ###, not meeting and fulfilling the requirements of the leagues and servcies.

he provided a service as he was technically just a middle man, so it really isn't a gambling issue at all.

i would also venture to guess that with money coming in from all over the country, that it is a federal issue as well.

 

[Jed]

For his sake, I hope the 630k thing is bs. If not, he's a complete moron.

It's BS. In this day and age, websites, even heavily coded sites cost a fraction of that.

 

[ArbyMelt]

So he was a bartender/manager at a sports bar (skybox sports grille) and is known to be a gambler.

Guys this isn't gonna end well for us.

 

[lod01]

I don't think Mike Z. was playing some sort of long con. Bad decisions, desperation and more bad decisions yes.

On another note about the new software project. I wonder if he thought it out fully because wouldn't this project require more than software? It would need to be hosted and would require significant bandwidth to be effective......so there would be more costs than SW development. There would be hardware or paying to host the software and then all the bandwidth/usage costs that Phenoms does not have now.

I have known more than a few well meaning entrepeneurs who did not fully think out implementation of their idea.

Hi Mike.

Jim Hill, 2 posts since 2007.

The guy is on here laughing and mocking you guys.

 

[Soaring Eagle]

i heard that many people (who didn't make the playoffs) never even received the email

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I am still holding out hope that someone comes in and infuses Phenoms with cash to get through December...

Sorry to anyone that is counting on this, but it isn't going to happen. What legitimate business is going to invest in this? What exactly are they investing in? He doesn't have a product, just a service (that isn't really all that necessary to keep the leagues that wish to stay alive continuing) that relies on trust. That trust is now gone.

If I was in any of those leagues, I would just take the league to MFL and run it with one of the owners acting as commissioner and using league safe or a "trusted" owner dealing with the funds. At this point all league members are probably friendly enough that they can run these leagues on their own.

The guy made some decent money, not really doing very much at all other than organizing leagues. There is a "looking for leagues" forum on this very site that can do that work for you for free basically.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Agreed that the contact list of former Phenoms players is essentially worthless. The hard core players will take their money and distribute it elsewhere. They make up a big chunk of Phenoms overall revenues. But the casual fans who had one or two leagues are going to pull back next year, might not play at all. And the ones like myself who at one time had only one or two leagues are going to scale back down to one or two. The only real asset Phenoms had was its good name. It was a valuable property before Mike ruined that trust. He damaged the fantasy football industry as a whole more than some care to think.

 

[lod01]

Agreed that the contact list of former Phenoms players is essentially worthless. The hard core players will take their money and distribute it elsewhere. They make up a big chunk of Phenoms overall revenues. But the casual fans who had one or two leagues are going to pull back next year, might not play at all. And the ones like myself who at one time had only one or two leagues are going to scale back down to one or two. The only real asset Phenoms had was its good name. It was a valuable property before Mike ruined that trust. He damaged the fantasy football industry as a whole more than some care to think.

Like I said earlier, he probably looked at the year over year decrease in funds coming in and decided to steal the cash now. Better to steal say 1 million now than say 800k next year. Make no mistake, he was planning on steal you guys $ when he started it. It was kinda like a Ponzi. He built it over years with the plan to come up with a reason it failed. His web developer reason is so laughable, it screams 'I stole your money'.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Agreed that the contact list of former Phenoms players is essentially worthless. The hard core players will take their money and distribute it elsewhere. They make up a big chunk of Phenoms overall revenues. But the casual fans who had one or two leagues are going to pull back next year, might not play at all. And the ones like myself who at one time had only one or two leagues are going to scale back down to one or two. The only real asset Phenoms had was its good name. It was a valuable property before Mike ruined that trust. He damaged the fantasy football industry as a whole more than some care to think.

I feel very bad for guys like you that invested time into a dynasty team and enjoy your league.

Why can't you contact the other owners and run that league(s) on your own?

I'm sure you can find some one willing to act as commissioner and all fees can go to league safe instead (which would actually add more money to your prize pool - 4% v. 10%, I believe).

 

[BassNBrew]

Agreed that the contact list of former Phenoms players is essentially worthless. The hard core players will take their money and distribute it elsewhere. They make up a big chunk of Phenoms overall revenues. But the casual fans who had one or two leagues are going to pull back next year, might not play at all. And the ones like myself who at one time had only one or two leagues are going to scale back down to one or two. The only real asset Phenoms had was its good name. It was a valuable property before Mike ruined that trust. He damaged the fantasy football industry as a whole more than some care to think.

I feel very bad for guys like you that invested time into a dynasty team and enjoy your league.

Why can't you contact the other owners and run that league(s) on your own?

I'm sure you can find some one willing to act as commissioner and all fees can go to league safe instead (which would actually add more money to your prize pool - 4% v. 10%, I believe).

What's to stop Leaguesafe from doing the same thing?

 

[massraider]

I wasn't in any Phenoms leagues, just know a scam when I see one.

You weren't even in any of the leagues? Just a casual passer by that read something on a message board and you're ready to convict?

Never shocked to see people primed and ready to throw the first stone.

No one needs to be in a league to have any insight into this. No one needs to 'know' Mike to have any insight into this. His personality and prior actions offer no pertinent information.

He held people's money, agreeing to a percentage for running the leagues. The money he held is gone.

Discussions about web developments costs and so forth..........now people are believing the guy that stole everyone's money, and debating whether or not he is a good guy with a bad business mind??

Even if that story is true (and really, who cares?), the moment he removed funds to do ANYTHING with them, he was a thief. What he did with the money once he stole it might be interesting, but really is irrelevant.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

yeah Im pretty much done with all my online innernet only dyansty league, brucezone, misfits and outlaws, now this, im out

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Agreed that the contact list of former Phenoms players is essentially worthless. The hard core players will take their money and distribute it elsewhere. They make up a big chunk of Phenoms overall revenues. But the casual fans who had one or two leagues are going to pull back next year, might not play at all. And the ones like myself who at one time had only one or two leagues are going to scale back down to one or two. The only real asset Phenoms had was its good name. It was a valuable property before Mike ruined that trust. He damaged the fantasy football industry as a whole more than some care to think.

I feel very bad for guys like you that invested time into a dynasty team and enjoy your league.

Why can't you contact the other owners and run that league(s) on your own?

I'm sure you can find some one willing to act as commissioner and all fees can go to league safe instead (which would actually add more money to your prize pool - 4% v. 10%, I believe).

A couple of the guys already posted that idea. Problem is one of our teams was considered "dead" when they didn't log in since the first week of the season. Mike had an anti-tanking policy where you forfeit the #1 pick for tanking. I'm not sure how we handle who gets that team's pick. And this is my first year in a league that is only 2 years old, but already you have some owners grumbling about not making the playoffs and talking about bailing. And this was before Mike's email came out. Basically, only the 4 playoff teams are interested and the other 8 aren't even logging in the site anymore. I don't know if they even got Mike's email.

 

[Dapitbull]

All,


I was in a Phenoms high stakes league and made the playoffs; my money is now gone. I am taking action and need your help. I've listed contacts below where we can report Mike. I've already done it but the authorities made clear to me that for people to go after him WE NEED EVERYONE SCAMMED TO FILE A COMPLAINT. The more the better.

If you want evidence of how much a crook Mike is, check out a Google cache of his website. He had previously said that many would be kept securely in a Wells Fargo account and we were assured of payouts:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:LdMybAuziHYJ:https://www.phenomsff.com/prizes/prizes.php&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

The reason you need a Google cache to read it is that he changed his website today to remove the statement about safekeeping funds.

Here are links if you want to file complaints:

https://complaint.ic3.gov/ (Internet Crime Complaint Center)

http://attorneygeneral.utah.gov/complaint-form (Utah Attorney General)

I also called the local police where Mike lives in Murray, Utah (801-264-2673.

I know it's annoying to fill these out and call, but it doesn't take that long and really will help.

Also, here are the details on Mike's business and his home address (for the complaint forms):

[SIZE=10pt]PHENOM ENTERPRISES, LLC[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Entity Number: 7970115-0160[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Company Type: LLC - Domestic[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Address: 457 E 5600 S UNIT B Murray, UT 84107 [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]State of Origin: [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Registered Agent: MICHAEL D ZANGRILLI [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Registered Agent Address: [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]457 E 5600 S UNIT B [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Murray, UT 84107[/SIZE]

I won't stop until Mike is in jail. He's a thief and ponzi schemer--join in if you want justice. Like I said, the only way to get this guy is for everyone to complain so the authorities know how many victims there are.

Also, I'm a lawyer and he has no right to decide to pay certain people and refund certain deposits at this point. The business is insolvent (bankrupt). A trustee/court needs to figure out who is owed what.

I filed complaint with both. May be futile but I feel an obligation to do something. Its not right what Mike has done.

 

[massraider]

Like I said earlier, he probably looked at the year over year decrease in funds coming in and decided to steal the cash now

This is my guess, as well.

Dailys are crushing it, and I know several people dropping the head-to-head leagues to concentrate on FanDuel. Great time to walk away with everyone's investment.

 

[weinster666]

Mike has been a decent guy here. I was surprised by this news. He frequented this board for years and was "one of us." He started Phenoms and a lot of people went there because it was him and how he handled things.

I don't know half you here personally, but ya come here for years and idk...there's something to seeing this guy or that guy's posts over n over day in day out. On the one hand I feel bad for him because I'd be breathing fire at a designer if they wanted to charge me 4x+ what I was quoted. On the other, because he was someone you all "know" I imagine that bred a bit of trust and you feel betrayed among other things.

This really stinks.

As far as the posts about him removing his social media accounts- Really? Like one of you regulars here wouldn't do the same thing? And geesh you guys looked up his tax records and posted a pic of his house and address and....I have little doubt he thought "OMG the FFA is gonna kill me"

I imagine a FFA lynching and he's getting it. It just really stinks to watch and be an observer. I feel bad for all of you involved. I hope this works out in some way where you can at least get some peace.

Good Luck with this

I have no problem with a web designer/developer trying to charge 4x what they estimated. My problem is Mike taking OUR prize payout money and actually paying it to them. I wouldn't have given them one red cent. The developers and I would have planned out specific time tables and specific deliverable and verification at each stage that the product met the requirements of that stage. Then and only then would the developers get a portion of the 200k estimated funds. And what about that original 200K? Was that a business loan or line of credit...or was even that an embezzlement of the prize money escrow accounts.

We may never know.

W666

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Agreed that the contact list of former Phenoms players is essentially worthless. The hard core players will take their money and distribute it elsewhere. They make up a big chunk of Phenoms overall revenues. But the casual fans who had one or two leagues are going to pull back next year, might not play at all. And the ones like myself who at one time had only one or two leagues are going to scale back down to one or two. The only real asset Phenoms had was its good name. It was a valuable property before Mike ruined that trust. He damaged the fantasy football industry as a whole more than some care to think.

I feel very bad for guys like you that invested time into a dynasty team and enjoy your league.

Why can't you contact the other owners and run that league(s) on your own?

I'm sure you can find some one willing to act as commissioner and all fees can go to league safe instead (which would actually add more money to your prize pool - 4% v. 10%, I believe).

What's to stop Leaguesafe from doing the same thing?

Well, sure you can go down this road all you want - what's to stop some guy that you actually know from taking the money and moving away?

My thoughts were more directed at keeping his league going since that is what he really seems to regret (his dynasty league no longer existing). The new commissioner and/or the league treasurer could hold the money as well (and yes, he may flee with it). I think losing your $100 or $50 entrance fee in those situations would be a little more bearable - not that it would be great.

I think the larger issue here is that people feel scammed by a guy walking away with a nice chunk of change ($1MM) at the collective's expense.

I'd almost feel more sorry than anger for a single league commissioner being such a loser that he needs to steal $1,200 bucks and walk away.

 

[TheCommish]

I don't like to hear that about LeagueSafe

it was only like $68 i had left in there over the offseason but still BS. Was extremely pissed how they just brushed if off like nothing and tried to make it look like i did something. i hadn't even logged into the account from when i was paid in December and when i checked the account before this season in mid-Fed to see no money in it.. Another guy in my league said it happened to him as well.

They did give me the money back right away but what if i wouldn't have noticed?

I actually had $30 or $40 in my LeagueSafe account that I had completely forgotten about. When I went to pay my dues in one of my leagues, I was surprised that my entry fee was so small. My funds from the prior season were still sitting there.

It's too easy to forget about money in accounts like this. Which is why I don't like using them. I'll have to make a mental note to have them pay me my winnings when this season is over, because it'll probably be around $200 to $300 this year.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Agreed that the contact list of former Phenoms players is essentially worthless. The hard core players will take their money and distribute it elsewhere. They make up a big chunk of Phenoms overall revenues. But the casual fans who had one or two leagues are going to pull back next year, might not play at all. And the ones like myself who at one time had only one or two leagues are going to scale back down to one or two. The only real asset Phenoms had was its good name. It was a valuable property before Mike ruined that trust. He damaged the fantasy football industry as a whole more than some care to think.

I feel very bad for guys like you that invested time into a dynasty team and enjoy your league.

Why can't you contact the other owners and run that league(s) on your own?

I'm sure you can find some one willing to act as commissioner and all fees can go to league safe instead (which would actually add more money to your prize pool - 4% v. 10%, I believe).

A couple of the guys already posted that idea. Problem is one of our teams was considered "dead" when they didn't log in since the first week of the season. Mike had an anti-tanking policy where you forfeit the #1 pick for tanking. I'm not sure how we handle who gets that team's pick. And this is my first year in a league that is only 2 years old, but already you have some owners grumbling about not making the playoffs and talking about bailing. And this was before Mike's email came out. Basically, only the 4 playoff teams are interested and the other 8 aren't even logging in the site anymore. I don't know if they even got Mike's email.

Well the problem seems to be that league was falling apart anyway, but otherwise I would find a new owner and let him keep his pick.

If you really enjoyed the dynasty experience, I think you could find 12 other owners for this site (heck this thread alone) and start something up.

I really do feel bad for you guys for not only having your money stolen - but having something you enjoyed ripped away from you as well.

 

[lod01]

yeah Im pretty much done with all my online innernet only dyansty league, brucezone, misfits and outlaws, now this, im out

Wait, I'm working on a new one called 'Your Cash is Mine, FFL' Our motto will be 'This time it will be different'.

 

[BassNBrew]

Agreed that the contact list of former Phenoms players is essentially worthless. The hard core players will take their money and distribute it elsewhere. They make up a big chunk of Phenoms overall revenues. But the casual fans who had one or two leagues are going to pull back next year, might not play at all. And the ones like myself who at one time had only one or two leagues are going to scale back down to one or two. The only real asset Phenoms had was its good name. It was a valuable property before Mike ruined that trust. He damaged the fantasy football industry as a whole more than some care to think.

I feel very bad for guys like you that invested time into a dynasty team and enjoy your league.

Why can't you contact the other owners and run that league(s) on your own?

I'm sure you can find some one willing to act as commissioner and all fees can go to league safe instead (which would actually add more money to your prize pool - 4% v. 10%, I believe).

What's to stop Leaguesafe from doing the same thing?

Well, sure you can go down this road all you want - what's to stop some guy that you actually know from taking the money and moving away?

My thoughts were more directed at keeping his league going since that is what he really seems to regret (his dynasty league no longer existing). The new commissioner and/or the league treasurer could hold the money as well (and yes, he may flee with it). I think losing your $100 or $50 entrance fee in those situations would be a little more bearable - not that it would be great.

I think the larger issue here is that people feel scammed by a guy walking away with a nice chunk of change ($1MM) at the collective's expense.

I'd almost feel more sorry than anger for a single league commissioner being such a loser that he needs to steal $1,200 bucks and walk away.

That's sort of the approach I take. If a guy wants to screw up friendships and move over $1200 I would feel more sorrow. At least someone can't kick back with brews and umbrella drinks for the rest of their life on $1200. We've seen it time after time, when the money gets big, these guys like Mike take the money and run.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

I really do feel bad for you guys for not only having your money stolen - but having something you enjoyed ripped away from you as well.

Thanks for that. It's not the money that bothers me so much. Well...a little. I justify my fantasy football vice by investing a few hundred bucks a year but always seem to double it back around the holidays. But it's never money I am counting on for Christmas presents or anything. This hobby takes more time than I am comfortable with admitting. Yesterday, I was so bitter I did not watch any games. I tried for about 10 minutes but I started to get pissed off. A lot of hard work, time invested into some silly team that no longer exists. Shame on me for being such a fool caring about something so trivial. I'm numb to it all. I'll probably change my mind down the road, but running a fantasy football team at this point is the furthest though in my mind. And I would have been in 2 championships of my 4 semifinals this weekend. Doesn't matter anymore.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Ya seriously. Like it would've taken years to make up for the initial investment, so I don't understand how after spending all that money that there was a scenario where he could have paid everyone out. Like after spending $500000 don't you stop and think hey I wonder if there is enough money left to payout the prizes because the only revenue I have coming in is from hockey and basketball leagues in the next couple of months and that is next to nothing. At the very least he knew his business was in huge trouble for at least a year and still guaranteed payouts. My guess is that he was in a huge hole financially before this season started and went into the season knowing that he had to get what he could out of phenoms through registration fees this fall to make up for his complete mismanagement of the company. He must have known going into this season that he wouldn't be able to make the payouts but decided to take people's money anyways. Either that or this is a total madoff type long con.

I have held off on posting in this thread as I'm not a Phenoms player, but this is where I'm at, based solely on the info I have in this thread.

Assuming he had the $200k that he claims for the initial software development, I just don't understand how he thought he could spend an additional $430k on the project out of player-escrow funds and be able to pay out in December. It's just kicking the can down the road - where is he going to get $430k from to pay out the leagues in December?

Honestly, it reads to me like a fraud that ballooned out of control. Maybe he's mishandled player-escrow funds in the past but had always been able to pay them back, and no one ever knew. Maybe he had been in a fraud cycle where he was using his commission to cover the mishandled player-escrow funds, just keeping himself afloat. And maybe this year it went to ####, he hit a bad gambling streak or something and suddenly realized that he doesn't have the cash to pay it out. It's one thing to gamble away $10,000 of other people's money and take your $10,000 commission and plug it back in for the payouts and pretend nothing happened. It's a different story if you're $430k in the hole on December 15, with the end of the FF season just 3-4 weeks away.

Sorry to hear about your losses, both financial and in leagues that you love. Hope you all get some resolution from this in the end.

 

[Dizzy]

I have no problem with a web designer/developer trying to charge 4x what they estimated.

I would agree if this were chump change, but $600k and counting? Assuming that the initial $200k was some kind of firm quotation (from a legit web development company)... there would have to be agreed terms & conditions that would include a firm delivery date and payment terms. And nobody with any sense is going to agree to pay for something (in full) prior to receiving the finished product. Even then there would be some type of retention, bank guarantee, etc. based on testing, tweaking, etc.

We did have one instance where one of our country managers was authorizing budget-busting payments to a local manufacturer. As it turned out, his brother owned that company, so...

 

[sbonomo]

Anyone that thinks this isn't a scam is extrememly naive. Even if the website did cost 600M+ how was he going to pay this years prizes? If he didn't make payouts do you think anyone would come back?