Phenoms going under (4 Viewers)

[SCYCPA]

Anyone still buying the cost overrun story?

Even if the cost overrun story is accurate, he's operating a fraudulent operation. You can't dip into the prize pool to cover operational expenses; if you don't have $650K outside the prize pool, you can't do a $650K project unless you can get it financed. Even if the new site was completed and beautiful, it wouldn't have generated $450K by the end of this season to put back in the prize pool. And you can't borrow from next year's registrations to pay for it, either, even if you get enough; that just kicks the can down the road.

The guy screwed up royally, and the only question is whether he did so through intent or incompetence.

Agreed.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

It's a little unnerving that the banner a couple posts up top from here talks about a $600,000 prize pool in the 14/14 FBG playoff challenge. Just too much of a coincidence and maybe too soon.

 

[Dizzy]

I'm in the wrong business if I could be making 600K+ developing a fantasy football website.

What if I told you that you could use someone else's (well-established) software and all you had to do was charge a handling fee to manage the accounts of others?

 

[Mikeisonabeachearning20%]

Anyone still buying the cost overrun story?

Even if the cost overrun story is accurate, he's operating a fraudulent operation. You can't dip into the prize pool to cover operational expenses; if you don't have $650K outside the prize pool, you can't do a $650K project unless you can get it financed. Even if the new site was completed and beautiful, it wouldn't have generated $450K by the end of this season to put back in the prize pool. And you can't borrow from next year's registrations to pay for it, either, even if you get enough; that just kicks the can down the road.

The guy screwed up royally, and the only question is whether he did so through intent or incompetence.

Actually this happens all the time.

It's called the united states government. They borrow money they don't have. Print more to cover it. Then kick the can down the road to the next group of politicians coming into office. Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Anyone still buying the cost overrun story?

Not for a minute. If true, then he got taken worse than any of these other guys.

"Yeah, just a few more glitches to work out with waiver sorting. Wire us another $200k and that should take care of it."

agreed. I don't think anyone here believed that story. the timing and execution of this caper were all planned out well ahead of time. Mike is a liar, thief, and con artist. Some still want to remember him as a nice guy who played fair and square for 10 plus years, but forget about that and remember him for what he is. I believe you pay for every wrong you do in this world eventually. And I hold myself accountable in the same way for whenever I wronged someone. I will eventually pay. So will Mike. Wait and see.

 

[comfortably numb]

I'm in the wrong business if I could be making 600K+ developing a fantasy football website.

Probably the 2nd most surprising thing to me in this thread.

People in the industry vouching this is fairly accurate.

Had no clue the programming for a site like that would cost over 500K

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

It's called the united states government. They borrow money they don't have. Print more to cover it. Then kick the can down the road to the next group of politicians coming into office. Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

What percent interest was Mike paying on the loans? Did his lenders know he was borrowing their money? What was the payback period? Does Mike have a 200 year history of paying his creditors?

I'm not seeing the parallels.

 

[CalBear]

Anyone still buying the cost overrun story?

Even if the cost overrun story is accurate, he's operating a fraudulent operation. You can't dip into the prize pool to cover operational expenses; if you don't have $650K outside the prize pool, you can't do a $650K project unless you can get it financed. Even if the new site was completed and beautiful, it wouldn't have generated $450K by the end of this season to put back in the prize pool. And you can't borrow from next year's registrations to pay for it, either, even if you get enough; that just kicks the can down the road.

The guy screwed up royally, and the only question is whether he did so through intent or incompetence.

Actually this happens all the time.

It's called the united states government. They borrow money they don't have. Print more to cover it. Then kick the can down the road to the next group of politicians coming into office. Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

That's a completely pointless and incorrect analogy.

 

[sdp1226]

I'd like to hear from anyone who has had success with a charge back. List your payment method/ bank and what kind of resolution you got.

And make sure to state what place you finished in so that you can be judged here accordingly.

 

[leftcoastguy7]

Anyone still buying the cost overrun story?

Hookers and coke are expensive.

Why is cocaine always the default abused drug in situations such as this.

 

[Dizzy]

Anyone still buying the cost overrun story?

Hookers and coke are expensive.

Why is cocaine always the default abused drug in situations such as this.

Excellent point. Given his location, meth is a hundred times more likely.

 

[17seconds]

Did anyone else just start getting spam at the email address they used on their Phenoms account?

Not spam perse, but I did not like that my email got added to a long Phenoms email list without my consent. Somebody who is in one of my leagues copy/pasted our league info and passed it on to somebody who has started some sort of legal campaign. I didn't respond to it, but it's a little unnerving to see how easily your personal info can be harvested from what I thought was a relatively secure account profile.

I went to my phenomsff account info page and it has my name and home address in there. Just cleared it all out. Suggest folks do the same.

 

[Touchdown There]

It's called the united states government. They borrow money they don't have. Print more to cover it. Then kick the can down the road to the next group of politicians coming into office. Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

What percent interest was Mike paying on the loans? Did his lenders know he was borrowing their money? What was the payback period? Does Mike have a 200 year history of paying his creditors?

I'm not seeing the parallels.

No fiat currency has ever stood the test of time. 100% of them have failed, including the United States' first currency, the Continental.

 

[sPiKeRs]

Anyone still buying the cost overrun story?

Even if the cost overrun story is accurate, he's operating a fraudulent operation. You can't dip into the prize pool to cover operational expenses; if you don't have $650K outside the prize pool, you can't do a $650K project unless you can get it financed. Even if the new site was completed and beautiful, it wouldn't have generated $450K by the end of this season to put back in the prize pool. And you can't borrow from next year's registrations to pay for it, either, even if you get enough; that just kicks the can down the road.

The guy screwed up royally, and the only question is whether he did so through intent or incompetence.

I don't believe the project over run story for a second. You guys have all read Mike's letters posted on phenomsff.com. Mike is an intelligent man with a good education and family background. Anyone with a brain would not shell out more than 3X's the initial project cost, and still doesn't have a completed project to show for it. Furthermore, Mike used customer entry fees (which is a liability to the company) to fund operational expenses, which is a big no no. A more believable story would have been paying the budget of $200k, making another installment of let's say $100k to complete the web project. If the project is still not completed after that, you stop payments and file legal action against the web designer company. As the saying goes, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice and shame on me.

People should not be fighting who gets what. The trustee of the BK will be the judge of that. We need to do our civilian duties of filing our complaints to the appropriate authorities so that this situation does not happen again. If we do our part, an investigation will be opened whether Mike broke any laws of commingling funds, embezzlement and fraud. Then we let the legal system play out. But we need to do our part.

As a fellow victim posted earlier:

https://complaint.ic3.gov/ (Internet Crime Complaint Center)

http://attorneygener.../complaint-form (Utah Attorney General)

local police where Mike lives in Murray, Utah (801-264-2673.

PHENOM ENTERPRISES, LLC

Entity Number: 7970115-0160
Company Type: LLC - Domestic
Address: 457 E 5600 S UNIT B Murray, UT 84107
State of Origin:
Registered Agent: MICHAEL D ZANGRILLI
Registered Agent Address:
457 E 5600 S UNIT B
Murray, UT 84107

 

[El If I No]

Did anyone else just start getting spam at the email address they used on their Phenoms account?

Not spam perse, but I did not like that my email got added to a long Phenoms email list without my consent. Somebody who is in one of my leagues copy/pasted our league info and passed it on to somebody who has started some sort of legal campaign. I didn't respond to it, but it's a little unnerving to see how easily your personal info can be harvested from what I thought was a relatively secure account profile.

I went to my phenomsff account info page and it has my name and home address in there. Just cleared it all out. Suggest folks do the same.

ummm, i kinda think that info needs to be there for the Trustee to be able to find and contact us so that he/she can send us the nickel per league refund that we will hopefully (fingers crossed) get in about three years.......

 

[Futz]

Anyone who is attempting a CC chargeback, how are you getting around the 90 day window?

My CC (mastercard) didn't blink about a 90 day window. FYI to anyone attempting a CC chargeback, don't attempt to try to explain what happened or any fantasy football league mumbo jumbo to them. They don't speak this language. All they want to know is that you paid for a product you didn't receive. They hit the appropriate button and tell you the case will be resolved one way or the other within 60 days.

I started the chargeback process, however my situation was a little more complicated. They did ask questions of the nature of the services provided and the who, what, when and how of it all.

To be honest, It felt a bit like an interrogation to get me to admit it was fantasy football related. I basically told them that this company was to provide "a sports entertainment service in which they coordinate, supervise and manage the funds of our group". He asked what was the reasoning for the transactions to be disputed now after the 118 day period had elapsed and I said because the service was an ongoing process that needed to be completed in it's entirety for the transactions to be valid in the first place.

There was a lot more to the conversation but I'll spare you the details. I feel like I need a shower though. They said to gather up emails and as much evidence as I could and they would send the paperwork to initiate the investigation.

This isn't going to end well but it doesn't require much effort on my end so I feel it's worth trying.

Of course you need a shower. You couldn't even admit the reason you were begging for your money back. If you are that ashamed to say it was FF, then you probably shouldn't be calling.

I'm hardly ashamed. I simply was making sure I wasn't giving the person on the other end any additional reason to deny me based on ignorance of FF or their willingness to make the leap to gambling. Mission accomplished. Troll elsewhere.

 

[cstu]

It's called the united states government. They borrow money they don't have. Print more to cover it. Then kick the can down the road to the next group of politicians coming into office. Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

What percent interest was Mike paying on the loans? Did his lenders know he was borrowing their money? What was the payback period? Does Mike have a 200 year history of paying his creditors?

I'm not seeing the parallels.

No fiat currency has ever stood the test of time. 100% of them have failed, including the United States' first currency, the Continental.

No country on a gold standard has stood the test of time either.

 

[cowboyz1]

The more I look into this the more I am falling in on the side of scam folks. If you want to scam people and you are planning it there are a few things you need to do.

1. Isolate yourself from being tracked, via pictures, addresses, friends, colleges, and family. Not one person here seems to have ever seen "Mike" personally, spoke to him or knows anything personal about him. There is NO information on the web about him, nor pictures with is very odd since a person that popular would have some photo's at events, advertising something.

2. Limit Brick and mortar. From what I can tell there is no existence of any building, office, or brick and mortar entity that can be found. Therefore, they guy is running millions of dollars out of a house somewhere.

3. Once you pull the plug you have to be able to disappear. From what I can tell, "Mike" is gone. There is not one post that has any reference to his daily life, birthdays, special occasions, "what I did last week, yesterday, last year". There is more information about me just by my forum handle then there is about "Mike" the great guy. Which means you can't have used your personal information anywhere from the beginning, nor did he establish any personal relationships where people would know at least the state he lives in, what games he has gone to, his favorite beer for cryin out loud. He was too careful to be a mystery from the beginning. Think about it, I am in many leagues and I know more about my league members then I anyone here does about the guy they handed thousands over to. Strange?

This is looking more and more like the long con folks. He has no ties to anyone personally. There seems to be very little info on the guy for him to be so popular. Lastly, it looks as though there has been a concerted effort to minimize exposure from the beginning. The website stuff is just BS because you don't bankrupt your company building a website. Like poster said, even if the website was finished how does that generate cash to pay this year? It doesn't. Seems like it became very attractive to walk with the cash and give everyone a swift kick to the pills just before Christmas. If he was legit, he would have been transparent and real towards people and not vanish like Casper shutting down accounts. "A great guy" doesn't handle things in this manner.

 

[fatness]

I know this is minuscule in the grand scheme, but if I filed a claim with paypal would it matter that I used a PayPal balance rather than paying directly from my credit card? And in case you didn't see, this made usa today. http://thebiglead.com/2014/12/17/phenoms-fantasy-football-site-unable-to-meet-full-prize-obligations-plans-to-declare-bankruptcy/?utm_source=feedblitz&utm_medium=FeedBlitzRss&utm_campaign=usatodaycomsports-topstories

Weird to see a link to this thread on USA Today.

People who got ripped off want to talk about it. Better to have them talk here than in 1000 different small corners of the web.

 

[fatness]

Seems like Phenoms really exploded in the last couple of years in terms of the number of leagues they were running. It looks like they had approx 750 football leagues going this year. Was Mike commissioning all of these leagues by himself or did he have employees?

To my knowledge he operated this all by himself.

Yeah, I was completely amazed by how many leagues Phenoms had now. 75 or 100 wouldn't have surprised me, and would have been tough enough for one guy to run. 750 leagues is a problem just waiting to happen.

 

[ArbyMelt]

The more I look into this the more I am falling in on the side of scam folks. If you want to scam people and you are planning it there are a few things you need to do.

1. Isolate yourself from being tracked, via pictures, addresses, friends, colleges, and family. Not one person here seems to have ever seen "Mike" personally, spoke to him or knows anything personal about him. There is NO information on the web about him, nor pictures with is very odd since a person that popular would have some photo's at events, advertising something.

2. Limit Brick and mortar. From what I can tell there is no existence of any building, office, or brick and mortar entity that can be found. Therefore, they guy is running millions of dollars out of a house somewhere.

3. Once you pull the plug you have to be able to disappear. From what I can tell, "Mike" is gone. There is not one post that has any reference to his daily life, birthdays, special occasions, "what I did last week, yesterday, last year". There is more information about me just by my forum handle then there is about "Mike" the great guy. Which means you can't have used your personal information anywhere from the beginning.

This is looking more and more like the long con folks. He has no ties to anyone personally. There seems to be very little info on the guy for him to be so popular. Lastly, it looks as though there has been a concerted effort to minimize exposure from the beginning. The website stuff is just BS because you don't bankrupt your company building a website. Like poster said, even if the website was finished how does that generate cash to pay this year? It doesn't. Seems like it became very attractive to walk with the cash and give everyone a swift kick to the pills just before Christmas. If he was legit, he would have been transparent and real towards people and not vanish like Casper shutting down accounts. "A great guy" doesn't handle things in this manner.

1. There is plenty out there about him, read the thread. Heck he is on a newscast video. He went to Penn State. We know way too much about his family.

2. We have his house address. What more do you want?

3. He was a bartender and liked to ski, what more you want to know?

I really doubt he planned this out. He most likely had some type of vice and kept dipping into funds and got burned.

I am kinda surprised none of his friends in real life have chimed in telling us he is a good guy who made a mistake.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

The more I look into this the more I am falling in on the side of scam folks. If you want to scam people and you are planning it there are a few things you need to do.

1. Isolate yourself from being tracked, via pictures, addresses, friends, colleges, and family. Not one person here seems to have ever seen "Mike" personally, spoke to him or knows anything personal about him. There is NO information on the web about him, nor pictures with is very odd since a person that popular would have some photo's at events, advertising something.

There's been quite a bit of info posted earlier in thread regarding pretty much everything in your post.

I'd go back through this thread.

 

[fatness]

Did anyone else just start getting spam at the email address they used on their Phenoms account?

Not spam perse, but I did not like that my email got added to a long Phenoms email list without my consent. Somebody who is in one of my leagues copy/pasted our league info and passed it on to somebody who has started some sort of legal campaign. I didn't respond to it, but it's a little unnerving to see how easily your personal info can be harvested from what I thought was a relatively secure account profile.

I went to my phenomsff account info page and it has my name and home address in there. Just cleared it all out. Suggest folks do the same.

Do me a favor if you would -- go back and see if your information is still cleared out. I removed mine and logged out, then logged in again. My information is still there. Happened using 2 different browsers.

 

[thayman]

The more I look into this the more I am falling in on the side of scam folks. If you want to scam people and you are planning it there are a few things you need to do.

1. Isolate yourself from being tracked, via pictures, addresses, friends, colleges, and family. Not one person here seems to have ever seen "Mike" personally, spoke to him or knows anything personal about him. There is NO information on the web about him, nor pictures with is very odd since a person that popular would have some photo's at events, advertising something.

2. Limit Brick and mortar. From what I can tell there is no existence of any building, office, or brick and mortar entity that can be found. Therefore, they guy is running millions of dollars out of a house somewhere.

3. Once you pull the plug you have to be able to disappear. From what I can tell, "Mike" is gone. There is not one post that has any reference to his daily life, birthdays, special occasions, "what I did last week, yesterday, last year". There is more information about me just by my forum handle then there is about "Mike" the great guy. Which means you can't have used your personal information anywhere from the beginning.

This is looking more and more like the long con folks. He has no ties to anyone personally. There seems to be very little info on the guy for him to be so popular. Lastly, it looks as though there has been a concerted effort to minimize exposure from the beginning. The website stuff is just BS because you don't bankrupt your company building a website. Like poster said, even if the website was finished how does that generate cash to pay this year? It doesn't. Seems like it became very attractive to walk with the cash and give everyone a swift kick to the pills just before Christmas. If he was legit, he would have been transparent and real towards people and not vanish like Casper shutting down accounts. "A great guy" doesn't handle things in this manner.

1. There is plenty out there about him, read the thread. Heck he is on a newscast video. He went to Penn State. We know way too much about his family.

2. We have his house address. What more do you want?

3. He was a bartender and liked to ski, what more you want to know?

I really doubt he planned this out. He most likely had some type of vice and kept dipping into funds and got burned.

I am kinda surprised none of his friends in real life have chimed in telling us he is a good guy who made a mistake.

That's because he isn't a good guy. He's a piece of #### that stole hundreds of thousands of dollars from people.

 

[BadNewsBears]

The more I look into this the more I am falling in on the side of scam folks. If you want to scam people and you are planning it there are a few things you need to do.

1. Isolate yourself from being tracked, via pictures, addresses, friends, colleges, and family. Not one person here seems to have ever seen "Mike" personally, spoke to him or knows anything personal about him. There is NO information on the web about him, nor pictures with is very odd since a person that popular would have some photo's at events, advertising something.

2. Limit Brick and mortar. From what I can tell there is no existence of any building, office, or brick and mortar entity that can be found. Therefore, they guy is running millions of dollars out of a house somewhere.

3. Once you pull the plug you have to be able to disappear. From what I can tell, "Mike" is gone. There is not one post that has any reference to his daily life, birthdays, special occasions, "what I did last week, yesterday, last year". There is more information about me just by my forum handle then there is about "Mike" the great guy. Which means you can't have used your personal information anywhere from the beginning.

This is looking more and more like the long con folks. He has no ties to anyone personally. There seems to be very little info on the guy for him to be so popular. Lastly, it looks as though there has been a concerted effort to minimize exposure from the beginning. The website stuff is just BS because you don't bankrupt your company building a website. Like poster said, even if the website was finished how does that generate cash to pay this year? It doesn't. Seems like it became very attractive to walk with the cash and give everyone a swift kick to the pills just before Christmas. If he was legit, he would have been transparent and real towards people and not vanish like Casper shutting down accounts. "A great guy" doesn't handle things in this manner.

1. There is plenty out there about him, read the thread. Heck he is on a newscast video. He went to Penn State. We know way too much about his family.2. We have his house address. What more do you want?

3. He was a bartender and liked to ski, what more you want to know?

I really doubt he planned this out. He most likely had some type of vice and kept dipping into funds and got burned.

I am kinda surprised none of his friends in real life have chimed in telling us he is a good guy who made a mistake.

Just by reading some of the tweets that he was letting everyone know that were alluded to in this thread, I'm going to say that "vice" was compulsive gambling. Poker, sports, and who knows what else. It's much easier spending and losing other people's money. The temptation was probably too much to overcome. I'm sure he was chasing losses and eventually got way too deep in the negative. Yes, drugs and that type of stuff could have also been a factor. Ultimately, it was the gambling that did him in. Someone who gambles and isn't afraid to hide it is the last person you want "safeguarding" money. I am in the same boat as you all and don't buy the software developer excuse.

 

[cowboyz1]

The more I look into this the more I am falling in on the side of scam folks. If you want to scam people and you are planning it there are a few things you need to do.

1. Isolate yourself from being tracked, via pictures, addresses, friends, colleges, and family. Not one person here seems to have ever seen "Mike" personally, spoke to him or knows anything personal about him. There is NO information on the web about him, nor pictures with is very odd since a person that popular would have some photo's at events, advertising something.

2. Limit Brick and mortar. From what I can tell there is no existence of any building, office, or brick and mortar entity that can be found. Therefore, they guy is running millions of dollars out of a house somewhere.

3. Once you pull the plug you have to be able to disappear. From what I can tell, "Mike" is gone. There is not one post that has any reference to his daily life, birthdays, special occasions, "what I did last week, yesterday, last year". There is more information about me just by my forum handle then there is about "Mike" the great guy. Which means you can't have used your personal information anywhere from the beginning.

This is looking more and more like the long con folks. He has no ties to anyone personally. There seems to be very little info on the guy for him to be so popular. Lastly, it looks as though there has been a concerted effort to minimize exposure from the beginning. The website stuff is just BS because you don't bankrupt your company building a website. Like poster said, even if the website was finished how does that generate cash to pay this year? It doesn't. Seems like it became very attractive to walk with the cash and give everyone a swift kick to the pills just before Christmas. If he was legit, he would have been transparent and real towards people and not vanish like Casper shutting down accounts. "A great guy" doesn't handle things in this manner.

1. There is plenty out there about him, read the thread. Heck he is on a newscast video. He went to Penn State. We know way too much about his family.

2. We have his house address. What more do you want?

3. He was a bartender and liked to ski, what more you want to know?

I really doubt he planned this out. He most likely had some type of vice and kept dipping into funds and got burned.

I am kinda surprised none of his friends in real life have chimed in telling us he is a good guy who made a mistake.

Penn state huh? A bartender and likes to ski. Are you sure? Penn state should have a record of a Michael D Zangrilli graduate. Funny that there isn't one. Not in the last 20 years has a Michael D. Zangrilli graduated from Penn State! Public records should have something. Also it is funny that not one single personal friend has anything to say about him. Good or bad. That is very very telling.

 

[jon_mx]

This thread is gold.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

The more I look into this the more I am falling in on the side of scam folks. If you want to scam people and you are planning it there are a few things you need to do.

1. Isolate yourself from being tracked, via pictures, addresses, friends, colleges, and family. Not one person here seems to have ever seen "Mike" personally, spoke to him or knows anything personal about him. There is NO information on the web about him, nor pictures with is very odd since a person that popular would have some photo's at events, advertising something.

2. Limit Brick and mortar. From what I can tell there is no existence of any building, office, or brick and mortar entity that can be found. Therefore, they guy is running millions of dollars out of a house somewhere.

3. Once you pull the plug you have to be able to disappear. From what I can tell, "Mike" is gone. There is not one post that has any reference to his daily life, birthdays, special occasions, "what I did last week, yesterday, last year". There is more information about me just by my forum handle then there is about "Mike" the great guy. Which means you can't have used your personal information anywhere from the beginning.

This is looking more and more like the long con folks. He has no ties to anyone personally. There seems to be very little info on the guy for him to be so popular. Lastly, it looks as though there has been a concerted effort to minimize exposure from the beginning. The website stuff is just BS because you don't bankrupt your company building a website. Like poster said, even if the website was finished how does that generate cash to pay this year? It doesn't. Seems like it became very attractive to walk with the cash and give everyone a swift kick to the pills just before Christmas. If he was legit, he would have been transparent and real towards people and not vanish like Casper shutting down accounts. "A great guy" doesn't handle things in this manner.

1. There is plenty out there about him, read the thread. Heck he is on a newscast video. He went to Penn State. We know way too much about his family.

2. We have his house address. What more do you want?

3. He was a bartender and liked to ski, what more you want to know?

I really doubt he planned this out. He most likely had some type of vice and kept dipping into funds and got burned.

I am kinda surprised none of his friends in real life have chimed in telling us he is a good guy who made a mistake.

Penn state huh? A bartender and likes to ski. Are you sure? Penn state should have a record of a Michael D Zangrilli graduate. Funny that there isn't one. Also it is funny that not one single personal friend has anything to say about him. Good or bad. That is very very telling.

I really don't know where you're going with this.

Every single thing in your post has been went over throughout this thread.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Nobody knows who Mike is, and honestly I never cared to find out. About 8 years ago, long before I had ever heard of FBGs, on a tip from a friend who knew or said he knew him from FBG, and vouched for him I took the risk based on word of mouth reputation and entered into my first Omega league. I had a rough first couple of years as I had not yet discovered FBGs. But my friends who did win all said he paid promptly, so I trusted Mike. I finally started winning consistently every year once I got my FBG subscription and I will vouch for Mike's prompt payment after the championship week. He ran his business like clockwork. Over the years, he added new formats, including deeper leagues, bonus scoring, victory points, etc.

With so many options and some new dynasty options, I finally took the plunge and took on 4 leagues including 2 orphan dynasty leagues I bought over the summer. I'd always been a 2 league player, so 4 was kind of a big deal time wise. Well I don't know how I did it, but I managed to get into the playoffs in all 4 leagues. I was more invested this year timewise in my leagues than any other. It's ironic that for all that extra effort, being so proud of my teams, there's nothing to show for it.

Mike hurt a lot of people with his selfish money grab. He hurt this hobby. Some are hurting for the money drain, and they have my sympathies, but speaking for myself, destroying my budding dynasty teams that I just got started with kills my momentum in this hobby. Makes me wonder what I was thinking investing my time in it. I honestly don't know if I will come back to this hobby with the same enthusiasm. I'll always be a football fan, but I'm afraid I've grown numb to this hobby.

 

[cstu]

Just got this via email from Phenoms

**NOTICE**

This notice follows the letter posted to the site and emailed last Saturday. In that letter, it was noted that Phenom Enterprises, LLC ('Phenoms') was facing financial problems. Phenoms has received a significant number of emails and other communications in the wake of that letter--this notice responds generally to the concerns raised in them.

After conferring with legal counsel, and barring some intervening event (such as an acceptable offer to purchase the company), Phenoms will be pursuing bankruptcy. In bankruptcy, a trustee will be appointed who will take control of all of Phenoms' assets and make distributions to claimants according to relevant legal requirements. Additionally, the bankruptcy court and the trustee will oversee and review company finances.

Due to the foregoing, you are invited to update your account information at https://www.phenomsff.com/account/editprofile.php. You should then be on the lookout for a notice regarding filing a claim against Phenoms, which will be sent via mail and/or email, and posted on Phenoms' website (phenomsff.com).

Phenoms cannot answer questions regarding the time-line of the bankruptcy process nor the amounts claimants could expect to receive. Those answers are ultimately dependent on the bankruptcy court process. Relevant updates will be posted on Phenoms' website.

Thank you.

Sent by Phenoms Fantasy Sports: https://www.phenomsff.com

[SIZE=11pt]Mike Zangrilli, Owner & Commissioner[/SIZE]

Email coming from Mike himself. No law firm or lawyer listed. And he wrote it to make it seem like an official document ("***NOTICE***").

Seems like he could just be trying to buy more time.

This! He's been reading this thread and is in reactionary mode. He's trying to buy time to gather some funds and make a run for it. Creating phenomslegal@gmail.com was very amateurish. He doesn't even know what his next step is.

He no doubt thinks that if he uses fancy words and tells people to wait for bankruptcy proceedings that they'll forget all about it.

Sadly, he's probably right.

 

[SCYCPA]

Nobody knows who Mike is, and honestly I never cared to find out. About 8 years ago, long before I had ever heard of FBGs, on a tip from a friend who knew or said he knew him from FBG, and vouched for him I took the risk based on word of mouth reputation and entered into my first Omega league. I had a rough first couple of years as I had not yet discovered FBGs. But my friends who did win all said he paid promptly, so I trusted Mike. I finally started winning consistently every year once I got my FBG subscription and I will vouch for Mike's prompt payment after the championship week. He ran his business like clockwork. Over the years, he added new formats, including deeper leagues, bonus scoring, victory points, etc.

With so many options and some new dynasty options, I finally took the plunge and took on 4 leagues including 2 orphan dynasty leagues I bought over the summer. I'd always been a 2 league player, so 4 was kind of a big deal time wise. Well I don't know how I did it, but I managed to get into the playoffs in all 4 leagues. I was more invested this year timewise in my leagues than any other. It's ironic that for all that extra effort, being so proud of my teams, there's nothing to show for it.

Mike hurt a lot of people with his selfish money grab. He hurt this hobby. Some are hurting for the money drain, and they have my sympathies, but speaking for myself, destroying my budding dynasty teams that I just got started with kills my momentum in this hobby. Makes me wonder what I was thinking investing my time in it. I honestly don't know if I will come back to this hobby with the same enthusiasm. I'll always be a football fan, but I'm afraid I've grown numb to this hobby.

The leagues are still there, the teams are intact. You and your leaguemates can take over commishing the leagues yourselves or ask someone not in the league to commish it for you. Here's a couple tips.

I commish a couple dynasty leagues for people. I set up 2 separate accounts, one Paypal, one bank account for each league in the name of the league. The bank account gets the deposits, the Paypal account holds the current year dues. At any time, any league member can ask for a monthly statement or an internet an interim history printout with balances showing that the funds are still there and no withdrawals have been made. When we pay MFL - I do an electronic transfer that clearly says MyFantasyleague.com. End of the year, the Paypal account pays the prizes. One league hasn't asked me for a monthly statement for 2 years but I still send them to everyone.

First tip, demand this from your Commish. Don't settle for less. Don't rely on Leaguesafe or any other stuff - there's nothing stopping your commish or leaguesafe from making off with your funds.

Second tip, just like pimpin', commishin' ain't easy. Guys are going to argue and fight. Listen to both sides and ask each what specifically they want...trades rescinded/vetoed, etc. Don't give either side anything more than what they specifically request, if anything.

Another tip...for most people, absconding with $600 or $1200 in one league's money just isn't worth the hassle. When you have a guy doing hundreds of leagues and handling the money for all...that becomes a significant risk.

I'm communicating with MFL as to how to make the transition and the commish change from Mike smooth for 2015 for the dynasty leagues.

 

[ArbyMelt]

The more I look into this the more I am falling in on the side of scam folks. If you want to scam people and you are planning it there are a few things you need to do.

1. Isolate yourself from being tracked, via pictures, addresses, friends, colleges, and family. Not one person here seems to have ever seen "Mike" personally, spoke to him or knows anything personal about him. There is NO information on the web about him, nor pictures with is very odd since a person that popular would have some photo's at events, advertising something.

2. Limit Brick and mortar. From what I can tell there is no existence of any building, office, or brick and mortar entity that can be found. Therefore, they guy is running millions of dollars out of a house somewhere.

3. Once you pull the plug you have to be able to disappear. From what I can tell, "Mike" is gone. There is not one post that has any reference to his daily life, birthdays, special occasions, "what I did last week, yesterday, last year". There is more information about me just by my forum handle then there is about "Mike" the great guy. Which means you can't have used your personal information anywhere from the beginning.

This is looking more and more like the long con folks. He has no ties to anyone personally. There seems to be very little info on the guy for him to be so popular. Lastly, it looks as though there has been a concerted effort to minimize exposure from the beginning. The website stuff is just BS because you don't bankrupt your company building a website. Like poster said, even if the website was finished how does that generate cash to pay this year? It doesn't. Seems like it became very attractive to walk with the cash and give everyone a swift kick to the pills just before Christmas. If he was legit, he would have been transparent and real towards people and not vanish like Casper shutting down accounts. "A great guy" doesn't handle things in this manner.

1. There is plenty out there about him, read the thread. Heck he is on a newscast video. He went to Penn State. We know way too much about his family.

2. We have his house address. What more do you want?

3. He was a bartender and liked to ski, what more you want to know?

I really doubt he planned this out. He most likely had some type of vice and kept dipping into funds and got burned.

I am kinda surprised none of his friends in real life have chimed in telling us he is a good guy who made a mistake.

Penn state huh? A bartender and likes to ski. Are you sure? Penn state should have a record of a Michael D Zangrilli graduate. Funny that there isn't one. Not in the last 20 years has a Michael D. Zangrilli graduated from Penn State! Public records should have something. Also it is funny that not one single personal friend has anything to say about him. Good or bad. That is very very telling.

He was a TA at Penn State, and was in the school newspaper talking about his fantasy football league. I didn't say he graduated from Penn State. Read the thread or try google. The guy might be a con but he did go to Penn State, and his brother did too (and graduated). His dad won a few awards for engineering work.

If you can search Penn State records, you should be able to find out everything else on him. Or again, just read this thread and follow the links provided.

 

[Futz]

Nobody knows who Mike is, and honestly I never cared to find out. About 8 years ago, long before I had ever heard of FBGs, on a tip from a friend who knew or said he knew him from FBG, and vouched for him I took the risk based on word of mouth reputation and entered into my first Omega league. I had a rough first couple of years as I had not yet discovered FBGs. But my friends who did win all said he paid promptly, so I trusted Mike. I finally started winning consistently every year once I got my FBG subscription and I will vouch for Mike's prompt payment after the championship week. He ran his business like clockwork. Over the years, he added new formats, including deeper leagues, bonus scoring, victory points, etc.

With so many options and some new dynasty options, I finally took the plunge and took on 4 leagues including 2 orphan dynasty leagues I bought over the summer. I'd always been a 2 league player, so 4 was kind of a big deal time wise. Well I don't know how I did it, but I managed to get into the playoffs in all 4 leagues. I was more invested this year timewise in my leagues than any other. It's ironic that for all that extra effort, being so proud of my teams, there's nothing to show for it.

Mike hurt a lot of people with his selfish money grab. He hurt this hobby. Some are hurting for the money drain, and they have my sympathies, but speaking for myself, destroying my budding dynasty teams that I just got started with kills my momentum in this hobby. Makes me wonder what I was thinking investing my time in it. I honestly don't know if I will come back to this hobby with the same enthusiasm. I'll always be a football fan, but I'm afraid I've grown numb to this hobby.

Raiders, I want to thank you for your insight into potentially helping me charge back what we've lost in entry/deposit fees. It might result in something, it might result in nothing but I do know that reading this thread has renewed some lost faith in the integrity of the hobby. There are still some good people out there looking to right the wrongs.

My phenoms 12 team dynasty league is potentially heading into futility which is a shame after 3 years but I will try to resurrect it as an acting commissioner. I'd gladly welcome you into our league if an orphaned team presents itself which I'm sure it will considering what has happened. Keep it in mind if the hangover of this fiasco wears off.

 

[hamhocs]

I have a question. If phenoms was a 1 man operation, what would happen if Mike skied headfirst into a tree one day? Would 700+ leagues be in the same boat as we are now?

Fuzzy,do you have a backup plan? Just curious about this.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Thanks Futz. I'll PM you. It'd be nice to join a competitive league. Thanks for your kind offer.

 

[jecl]

I have played on Fuzzy since 2008 and have always been paid in full before Feb for what its worth. This year I played more of my leagues at Phenoms, apparently a mistake.

Phenoms was legit for 10 years, This is Fuzzy's 7th at least. The only reason not to trust Fuzzy is the experience with Phenoms.

I am not endorsing just relaying my experience. Not sure I will play at Fuzzy again until they can prove the prize money is safely in escrow.

 

[Smack Tripper]

I'm catching up and in and out of this thread.. feel bad for all affected...

Just wondering, where in this thread is there stuff about calling his dad and family? I at that idea... good for anyone who called.... let this stank hang on mike

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

I'm sorry people lost money or won't get the money they deserve. But PLEASE learn a lesson from this. Stop throwing big money into high-stakes contests unless you're prepared to not get paid. If you have a lot of money and it's not a big deal, cool. But if the dollar amount matters, stop throwing it away on the Internet.

No matter how much you researched it or trusted it, there's no due diligence you can do to guarantee a big payout from people you don't know. No league, no daily game, no nothing. And from the way these threads always go, there's basically nothing you can do about it.

I know these seem like good guys at the time and you pay with the best knowledge you have at the time. But my point is you'll NEVER have enough knowledge to protect yourself from this. This is always a possibility. If that's part of your gambling fun, great. But if this is a big problem, please don't make the same mistake twice. You're not getting your money back.

That is why they have fraud laws and better business bureaus and the like. You cant go through life with the attitude that any product or service you buy, either from a mom-and-pop or giant chain, either in person or over the internet, might rip you off and you should just accept those consequences. Commerce requires some expectation of trust and legal protections against violations of that trust. If you purchase a service, there has to be some expectation that the service that is delivered IS the service they represented. Just like, on the other side of the coin, that the expectation is that you purchase the product and service with real legal tender currency and not monopoly money.

I'm not sure what you can learn from this. That you should make all products yourself by hand, since you cant trust anyone? And learn all trades so you can do everything yourself?

W

A giant chain has a reputation to uphold and a billion-dollar business at stake, with shareholders who hold them accountable. A reputable mom and pop at least has a physical location you can visit. But yeah, a guy at the flea market who takes your phone and promises to fix it? If you come back the next weekend, they might or might not be there.

Now, go five steps shadier than that and you have the Internet.

I agree that you can't assume everyone is out to screw you. But by the same token, you can't rely on government agencies and laws to protect your back if you throw money out on the web to strangers. Best Buy won't disappear on social media. Target won't cut off its phone lines. Wal Mart won't be hard to track down. Don't be paranoid, but yes-- be wary of who gets your money on the Internet. That's what you can learn from this.

You can't even prove this guy is using his real name, or if he lives in the United States. You have information that suggests it, but he's really a website and e-mail address. Again, I have sympathy for those who were lied to and are in a bind because of it. But I have sympathy for Manti Te'o as well. Now, be honest: Did you really have any more reliable information than he did?

 

[AAABatteries]

I wonder if Mike and Steve from Antsports are buddies.

Has anyone ever been in a room with both of them at the same time?

 

[17seconds]

Did anyone else just start getting spam at the email address they used on their Phenoms account?

Not spam perse, but I did not like that my email got added to a long Phenoms email list without my consent. Somebody who is in one of my leagues copy/pasted our league info and passed it on to somebody who has started some sort of legal campaign. I didn't respond to it, but it's a little unnerving to see how easily your personal info can be harvested from what I thought was a relatively secure account profile.

I went to my phenomsff account info page and it has my name and home address in there. Just cleared it all out. Suggest folks do the same.

ummm, i kinda think that info needs to be there for the Trustee to be able to find and contact us so that he/she can send us the nickel per league refund that we will hopefully (fingers crossed) get in about three years.......

They have my email. I'm only out a $50 deposit so if my privacy costs me a $50 refund then so be it.Not really looking for refunds of the redraft leagues where I didn't make the playoffs.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

oops

 

[Spartans Rule]

Anyone still buying the cost overrun story?

Nah. I wanted to buy it, because like so many others I thought Unlucky seemed like a cool guy, but the more I think about it the scam seems obvious.

Take in a bunch of money, dump money to co-conspirator outside your company, claim you're actually just that bad at business, file bankruptcy to clear your debts, profit.

 

[hamhocs]

Anybody find Mike's Pinterest account yet?

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

A more believable story would have been paying the budget of $200k, making another installment of let's say $100k to complete the web project. If the project is still not completed after that, you stop payments and file legal action against the web designer company.

That's generally now how software development works. There is very rarely a true definition of "done" or "complete."

This is usually how it goes...

Customer: I want an app that does X, Y, Z.

Developer: Ok, that will cost about $N.

Customer: Sounds great, let's go.

Developer: Ok, here it is.

Customer: Hmm, well now that I see it, I'd like to make some changes. Let's change X, Y, Z.

Developer: Ok, that'll be another $N.

Customer: Ok

Developer: Done

Customer: Looks good, but I thought of another feature I want.

Developer: Ok, that'll be another $N.

Customer: Ok

Developer: Done

Customer: Hmm, well now that I see it, I'd like to make some changes. Let's change X, Y, Z.

... repeat forever.

These iterations can be really small, or really large, but that's often the general the pattern.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

A more believable story would have been paying the budget of $200k, making another installment of let's say $100k to complete the web project. If the project is still not completed after that, you stop payments and file legal action against the web designer company.

That's generally now how software development works. There is very rarely a true definition of "done" or "complete."

This is usually how it goes...

Customer: I want an app that does X, Y, Z.

Developer: Ok, that will cost about $N.

Customer: Sounds great, let's go.

Developer: Ok, here it is.

Customer: Hmm, well now that I see it, I'd like to make some changes. Let's change X, Y, Z.

Developer: Ok, that'll be another $N.

Customer: Ok

Developer: Done

Customer: Looks good, but I thought of another feature I want.

Developer: Ok, that'll be another $N.

Customer: Ok

Developer: Done

Customer: Hmm, well now that I see it, I'd like to make some changes. Let's change X, Y, Z.

... repeat forever.

These iterations can be really small, or really large, but that's often the general the pattern.

That is ABSOLUTELY how it goes. As the owner of a dev shop, I have done a LOT of jobs that had 3x cost over-runs, and none of them had anything to do with me suckering anyone in.

They call it requirements creep or scope creep in the business, and it happens more often than not - especially for small/new businesses who have never gone through a dev process before. I can easily believe the story he laid out there, but as others have mentioned it doesn't at all mean what he did wasn't illegal or immoral.

 

[Mikeisonabeachearning20%]

Anyone who is attempting a CC chargeback, how are you getting around the 90 day window?

My CC (mastercard) didn't blink about a 90 day window. FYI to anyone attempting a CC chargeback, don't attempt to try to explain what happened or any fantasy football league mumbo jumbo to them. They don't speak this language. All they want to know is that you paid for a product you didn't receive. They hit the appropriate button and tell you the case will be resolved one way or the other within 60 days.

I started the chargeback process, however my situation was a little more complicated. They did ask questions of the nature of the services provided and the who, what, when and how of it all.

To be honest, It felt a bit like an interrogation to get me to admit it was fantasy football related. I basically told them that this company was to provide "a sports entertainment service in which they coordinate, supervise and manage the funds of our group". He asked what was the reasoning for the transactions to be disputed now after the 118 day period had elapsed and I said because the service was an ongoing process that needed to be completed in it's entirety for the transactions to be valid in the first place.

There was a lot more to the conversation but I'll spare you the details. I feel like I need a shower though. They said to gather up emails and as much evidence as I could and they would send the paperwork to initiate the investigation.

This isn't going to end well but it doesn't require much effort on my end so I feel it's worth trying.

Of course you need a shower. You couldn't even admit the reason you were begging for your money back. If you are that ashamed to say it was FF, then you probably shouldn't be calling.

I'm hardly ashamed. I simply was making sure I wasn't giving the person on the other end any additional reason to deny me based on ignorance of FF or their willingness to make the leap to gambling. Mission accomplished. Troll elsewhere.

There is no trolling going on.

And you can stop lying. The only reason you or anyone else doesn't tell the person on the phone it's Fantasy Football is simple. Instant denial and hangup.

Easier to make up a story to try and scam your money back. We all get it.

 

[RUSF18]

A more believable story would have been paying the budget of $200k, making another installment of let's say $100k to complete the web project. If the project is still not completed after that, you stop payments and file legal action against the web designer company.

That's generally now how software development works. There is very rarely a true definition of "done" or "complete."

This is usually how it goes...

Customer: I want an app that does X, Y, Z.

Developer: Ok, that will cost about $N.

Customer: Sounds great, let's go.

Developer: Ok, here it is.

Customer: Hmm, well now that I see it, I'd like to make some changes. Let's change X, Y, Z.

Developer: Ok, that'll be another $N.

Customer: Ok

Developer: Done

Customer: Looks good, but I thought of another feature I want.

Developer: Ok, that'll be another $N.

Customer: Ok

Developer: Done

Customer: Hmm, well now that I see it, I'd like to make some changes. Let's change X, Y, Z.

... repeat forever.

These iterations can be really small, or really large, but that's often the general the pattern.

That is ABSOLUTELY how it goes. As the owner of a dev shop, I have done a LOT of jobs that had 3x cost over-runs, and none of them had anything to do with me suckering anyone in.

They call it requirements creep or scope creep in the business, and it happens more often than not - especially for small/new businesses who have never gone through a dev process before. I can easily believe the story he laid out there, but as others have mentioned it doesn't at all mean what he did wasn't illegal or immoral.

But it's creep...and there's deliverables and landmarks/milestones and actual decisions about moving forward and actually advancing more cash. The original letter made it seem like he got quoted $200K, guy came back and said it would cost $600K, and he was forced to pay him.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

...but as others have mentioned it doesn't at all mean what he did wasn't illegal or immoral.

Right, I should have added that comment, as well.

I don't want anyone thinking the over-budget thing is a valid excuse. The actions definitely still seem criminal, to me, and I hope he doesn't get away with it.

 

[Mikeisonabeachearning20%]

Did anyone else just start getting spam at the email address they used on their Phenoms account?

Not spam perse, but I did not like that my email got added to a long Phenoms email list without my consent. Somebody who is in one of my leagues copy/pasted our league info and passed it on to somebody who has started some sort of legal campaign. I didn't respond to it, but it's a little unnerving to see how easily your personal info can be harvested from what I thought was a relatively secure account profile.

I went to my phenomsff account info page and it has my name and home address in there. Just cleared it all out. Suggest folks do the same.

The only way that info is there is if you put it in their at some point. Mike has no way to get it.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

There's an old saying that's common in construction, but it's just as relevant in the software development business I would think.

"There's no such thing as a perfect scope of work". I'd bet that is especially true of software dev tools because of the rapid change of what's on the leading edge of technology changes daily. A company you rely on for all your needs could get bought out inside a production cycle screwing up your timelines and understanding of the original SOW. Project managers could also shuffle. Contract liasons come and go. Scope creep leads to other issues such as time delays that stack up as additional costs on subs and product lead time.

TL;DR

Point is, if Mike didn't have a good plan, didn't research this out throughly himself. If he trusted some slick salesman, he's as much a sucker as all of us for trusting him. There are no short cuts to success. Mike's failure to do his due dilegence before diving feet first cost all of us. Corporate laziness and sloth have felled more companies than you'd imagine.