Boston
Footballguy
They dealt their #1 for Buckner...he is a helluva player so I get it but it was the #13 pick and which maybe their best chance to get their QB of the future by either seating tight or trading up.
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QB Philip Rivers, RET (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Moe Green
- Start date
The Frankman
Footballguy
Ok, yea that makes sense for Buckner. Dude is going to improve their Run D so much... I'm checking mocks to see where Love is going to go. I wonder if he slips to the 2nd round now...
EDIT: Yea, then it's one thing if they don't want to wait for Brady. But Jameis maybe? Andy Dalton? I'm guessing the plan was get a 1 year QB and draft next year...
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Ben & Jerry's
Footballguy
I think Jalen Hurts is in play with their second pick in Round 2
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I like that move for the Colts. Unless Tua or Burrow was within their reach getting Buckner for 1.13 was a good move. IMO the other QBs in this draft are risky and I don’t think very good, except maybe Hurts.
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Boston
Footballguy
He is a wildcard but it seems his value is ascending rather then descending right now.
The Frankman
Footballguy
Yeah, with the latest flurry of signings and changes some sites have the Patriots taking him back of the 1st round.
EDIT: Getting back to Rivers, I would strongly hope the coaching staff keeps the passing game short-intermediate, or works with Rivers to change his approach/mellow him out. One will work to hide his Rex Grossman tendencies, the other will help him with fans in Indy. For fantasy suddenly I'm liking Jack Doyle and Mo-Alie Cox since Rivers loves to throw to his TEs, especially in the Green Zone.
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Tau837
Footballguy
I assume not for long. They can save $9M in cap space by releasing or trading Brissett.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I don't agree but isn't that the position they are in right now?
They are a team with a talented young nucleus that SHOULD win their division and make a playoff run. Look at that division. HOU is getting worse and probably traded away the best player in franchise history in his prime. JAX has pretty much just punted on 3rd down due to being a year or two ahead of HOU in terms of bad roster decisions. TEN had a fantastic season led by a journeyman QB in his 30's that played at near HOF level for PART of one season. There's a chance that he'll just turn into a HOF level QB from this point forward..... but I somehow doubt it and I'll go out on a limb and expect a decline from last season.
IMO all INDY has to do is color inside the lines and not make many mistakes and they win this division. Winston might have been a multi-year mistake instead of a one year mistake and he's already turned one playoff team into a non-playoff team. Andy Dalton would have required draft pick compensation AND likely a multi year contract, so again that's possibly a multi-year mistake. I think Carr would have likely been the best outcome, but that would cost draft capital and possibly been a multi-year mistake.
AT WORST this move turns out to only be a slight upgrade at starting QB and a giant upgrade at backup QB. For a team that should expect to make the playoffs backup QB is a position that could potentially keep you out if the starter goes out for multiple weeks. And the only cost was some salary cap space for this year that they could afford more than most teams. I just don't really see any downside and if it does turn out to be a mistake they wash their hands of the mistake in 9 months. If you give Winston market value(forget giving him what he expects/wants) you might be living with that mistake for YEARS.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
To me this would be a bigger mistake than using ample cap room on Rivers for one year. Colts should be in WIN NOW mode and you can get a guy that either starts or at least contributes a great deal in the 2nd round. I don't hate Hurts, I just don't think this is the situation where you burn a 2nd rounder on a developmental QB. Maybe I'm just giving IND too much credit because I think they may be the 2nd best team in the AFC in 2020.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Don't most teams spend ~$30mil on QB between their starters and backups? And many of those aren't even in a playoff window and don't have the free cap space the Colts have. When you are expected to make a playoff run I don't think having better depth at QB is a bad thing.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I also disagree with this part. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Rivers fiery attitude is one of the reason Reich wanted Rivers on the roster in the first place. When things go wrong in Indy I just don't see a lot of leadership to right the ship. Fans(of opponents) may bristle at Rivers "act" but I've never heard a single coach or teammate EVER speak less than glowingly about Rivers leadership qualities. In fact, I've always been surprised at how many defensive opponents(many of them division rivals) speak glowingly about the respect for Rivers and the way he plays the game. Rivers approach to the game is one of the biggest reasons he got the job imo.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
... and even then most people are saying Tua would be wise to take a red-shirt year to adjust to the league. You would think most teams would follow this approach more often given how well it worked in the development of Mahomes. The Colts are too good to trade a TON of draft capital to have moved up for Tua and just to use 2020 as a developmental season until Tua was ready. INDY can win right now with what they have, especially now that they have a much better QB combo than they went into the season last year.
Tau837
Footballguy
Expecting a big bounce back season from Rivers, assuming the season is played. Couple primary reasons.
First, it seems clear that he and Chargers HC Lynn were not really on the same page. Lynn prefers a run-first offense with a mobile QB. Unfortunately, the combination of the Chargers OL and RB play, other than in 2018, hasn't really supported that philosophy, and Rivers is far from a mobile, run-first offense QB. They co-existed, but it always seemed like it was just that, co-existing. It never seemed like a strong relationship or one where the HC and QB were in sync on philosophy. I don't think Reich is necessarily a great head coach, but he should mesh much better with Rivers, given that they have a prior relationship and have chosen to join together now.
Second, the Chargers pass blocking issues last season cannot be overstated. PFF graded the Chargers as the #31 pass blocking offense last season. They graded the Colts as #13.
Worse, the LT pass blocking – Rivers’ blind side – was bottom of NFL level for most of the season. Per PFF:
Okung played at least 80% of the offensive snaps in 4 games – weeks 8 (CHI), 9 (GB), 13 (@DEN), 14 (@JAX). Rivers was 76/108 (70%) for 1074 yards (9.9 YPA), 6 passing TDs, and 2 interceptions in those games. That is a 112.6 passer rating, and the Chargers were 3-1, losing by 3 points at Denver. Of his 32 incompletions, 6 were drops and 5 were throwaways.
Perhaps the truth lies somewhere in the middle of that sample and his overall play last season, but I am convinced he will be reinvigorated.
First, it seems clear that he and Chargers HC Lynn were not really on the same page. Lynn prefers a run-first offense with a mobile QB. Unfortunately, the combination of the Chargers OL and RB play, other than in 2018, hasn't really supported that philosophy, and Rivers is far from a mobile, run-first offense QB. They co-existed, but it always seemed like it was just that, co-existing. It never seemed like a strong relationship or one where the HC and QB were in sync on philosophy. I don't think Reich is necessarily a great head coach, but he should mesh much better with Rivers, given that they have a prior relationship and have chosen to join together now.
Second, the Chargers pass blocking issues last season cannot be overstated. PFF graded the Chargers as the #31 pass blocking offense last season. They graded the Colts as #13.
Worse, the LT pass blocking – Rivers’ blind side – was bottom of NFL level for most of the season. Per PFF:
- Okung allowed 5 pressures in 262 snaps
- Pipkins allowed 15 pressures in 251 snaps (245 at LT)
- Scott allowed 48 pressures in 827 snaps (564 at LT)
Okung played at least 80% of the offensive snaps in 4 games – weeks 8 (CHI), 9 (GB), 13 (@DEN), 14 (@JAX). Rivers was 76/108 (70%) for 1074 yards (9.9 YPA), 6 passing TDs, and 2 interceptions in those games. That is a 112.6 passer rating, and the Chargers were 3-1, losing by 3 points at Denver. Of his 32 incompletions, 6 were drops and 5 were throwaways.
Perhaps the truth lies somewhere in the middle of that sample and his overall play last season, but I am convinced he will be reinvigorated.
Yenrub
Footballguy
I just heard Marcellus Wiley say that Allen, Williams and Henry all had more drops last season than at any other time in their careers
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Tau837
Footballguy
This is not exactly correct. Per PFF:
- Allen had 5 drops last season, but he had 11 in 2017.
- Williams had 6 drops last season, which is his career high.
- Henry had 3 drops last season, which tied his career high, but he had more targets in 2019, so his drop percentage was actually the lowest in his career.
bostonfred
Footballguy
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I think it's interesting that all the talking heads said that the QB market wouldn't shake out until Brady made his decision. It all hinged on the Brady sweepstakes. Brady got $25mil/season. Rivers also got $25mil/season. And Tannehill got more than either of them. Was there even a rumor of anyone else having interest in Tannehill other than the Titans?
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
He sucks.
cloppbeast
Footballguy
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
Dude was alright for a long time numbers wise by the end of most seasons....you never felt “great” about starting him.....just didn’t have the “it” factor to get him or his team over he hump down the stretch/playoffs.....or to make him a plug and play and forget about it fantasy QB....not good in big games and made bad throws at bad times....yeah maybe not the best o lines in front of him, but he was never a QB that really made the players around him better.....those players were always his excuse....lot of talk and bravado but limited results.....not a guy I want to hang my NFL teams destiny on or my fantasy team.....maybe a nice spot start when your QB1 on a bye....
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I believe where he plays makes a big difference and playing behind arguably the best OL will help. If Hilton and Cambell are fully healed and the addition of Pittman and Taylor, I believe Rivers has lots of options on offense.
Tau837
Footballguy
I take it you expect no dropoff in play for Allen, Williams, Henry, and Ekeler this season, then. Right?
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Yep. Anyone who has paid attention and/or watched football knows this. I am not predicting an All-Pro spot for him in 2020, but I think talk of his demise is premature. He should bounce back and have a very good season in Indy behind that line and with that roster (COVID notwithstanding, as we have no idea what teams will get wrecked throughout the season by it).
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TheWinz
Footballguy
As a lifelong Chargers fan, I kind of agree with some of what you said, but certainly not all of it. As for FF, he has been more than a spot start. He not only finished as a QB1 nine times, he averaged QB10 for his 14-year starting career. In other words, an average of 9 QB's for the past 14 seasons have finished higher than him every year, while 22 have finished below him. Oh yeah, and during those 14 years, he missed a grand total of 1 game!
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
Thats fair....I may have been off base about fantasy I guess....mostly speaking in generalities overall.....I guess he was never somebody I felt I just had to get, or got mad if he went the pick before me, or that I was scared to see in my opponents lineup.....seems like he was always a "if you wait on QB he is a guy to target" kind of guy..... probably the definition of a QB10-12 type of guy....and not sure how often he outperformed his draft slot and really helped your fantasy team win a title.....maybe a couple?....never topped 35 TD's....so you had to really hit on your other draft picks...which you kind of have to do if you are rolling out QB10-12 type of guy...in most 12 team leagues, the same 12 are starting most weeks (give or take) so you aren't really worried about the other 20.....
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TheWinz
Footballguy
Was just pointing out he has been a lower level QB1 for the better part of 14 seasons, not a QB2 as you suggested (when you say spot start when your QB1 is on a bye, that is saying he is a QB2).
Here is what I hate to admit - I think you are right that he just doesn't have "it". He has a great passion for the game, but he finds a way to lose when others can find a way to win. Would we have won a SB with Brees if we kept him? We'll never know.
Tau837
Footballguy
The Frankman
Footballguy
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SproutDaddy
Footballguy
Yep. Still terrible.
