Phillip Dorsett underrated in rookie drafts? (1 Viewer)

[Xue]

I think watching T.Y. Hilton is an exercise in seeing what a good athlete with sub-par skills can do with the best ball-tosser in the free world as his QB. I don't think he runs routes, makes plays, or even catches particularly well. But he's fast and has been part of the system for a couple years. And all you need is a tiny bit of separation for a guy like Luck to put the ball in your hands as you streak through a very small window most QB's couldn't make use of.

I think Dorsett is a better WR than T.Y.

T.Y. will certainly start the year as a much, much bigger part of the passing O. But I think by the end of the year, it could be painfully obvious that he's no better than the third-best WR on that roster. He may still end the year with the best numbers, but the writing will be on the wall by week ten or so. And if he bolts in FA, I think a lot of people may be disappointed to see how mediocre he is with pretty much any other QB at the helm.

Dorset isn't even as good as Tyler Lockett, how can he be better than Hilton?

LOL

I guess people didn't watch the Senior Bowl practices. LOL. Too caught up on measurables.

Wait. You're judging him based on senior bowl practices? Did Grigson skip senior bowl week too? LOL

They for Trent Richardson once. LOL. Nah I'm judging them based on Senior bowl practices AND game tape. But 1-on-1 ones show you a lot of things you don't see on tape.

 

[Xue]

I think watching T.Y. Hilton is an exercise in seeing what a good athlete with sub-par skills can do with the best ball-tosser in the free world as his QB. I don't think he runs routes, makes plays, or even catches particularly well. But he's fast and has been part of the system for a couple years. And all you need is a tiny bit of separation for a guy like Luck to put the ball in your hands as you streak through a very small window most QB's couldn't make use of.

I think Dorsett is a better WR than T.Y.

T.Y. will certainly start the year as a much, much bigger part of the passing O. But I think by the end of the year, it could be painfully obvious that he's no better than the third-best WR on that roster. He may still end the year with the best numbers, but the writing will be on the wall by week ten or so. And if he bolts in FA, I think a lot of people may be disappointed to see how mediocre he is with pretty much any other QB at the helm.

Dorset isn't even as good as Tyler Lockett, how can he be better than Hilton?

LOL

I guess people didn't watch the Senior Bowl practices. LOL. Too caught up on measurables.

Your arrogance is what people lol at. I'm sure Pagano and the gang watched everything.

This isn't about Pagano. I don't care what Pagano thinks. I care what you think and what you see. Pagano doesn't care what I see and think. I'm not being arrogant. Just factful.

 

[FUBAR]

I can't think of a team with an elite qb that let their wr1 walk.

The Chargers let Vincent Jackson walk when they had Rivers, which made Malcom Floyd the incumbent #1 WR. Of course, A.J. Smith was a moron.

Hell, AJ Smith basically dared VJAX to play for that team.

While VJax was great, Gates was the better receiver anyway.

 

[Sabertooth]

I think watching T.Y. Hilton is an exercise in seeing what a good athlete with sub-par skills can do with the best ball-tosser in the free world as his QB. I don't think he runs routes, makes plays, or even catches particularly well. But he's fast and has been part of the system for a couple years. And all you need is a tiny bit of separation for a guy like Luck to put the ball in your hands as you streak through a very small window most QB's couldn't make use of.

I think Dorsett is a better WR than T.Y.

T.Y. will certainly start the year as a much, much bigger part of the passing O. But I think by the end of the year, it could be painfully obvious that he's no better than the third-best WR on that roster. He may still end the year with the best numbers, but the writing will be on the wall by week ten or so. And if he bolts in FA, I think a lot of people may be disappointed to see how mediocre he is with pretty much any other QB at the helm.

Dorset isn't even as good as Tyler Lockett, how can he be better than Hilton?

LOL

I guess people didn't watch the Senior Bowl practices. LOL. Too caught up on measurables.

Your arrogance is what people lol at. I'm sure Pagano and the gang watched everything.

This isn't about Pagano. I don't care what Pagano thinks. I care what you think and what you see. Pagano doesn't care what I see and think. I'm not being arrogant. Just factful.

I've never watched the kid play a down. Don't know anything about him other than a pretty good NFL front office picked him over the hundreds of players available to them. I follow the money more often than not.

 

[voiceofunreason]

I can't think of a team with an elite qb that let their wr1 walk.

The Chargers let Vincent Jackson walk when they had Rivers, which made Malcom Floyd the incumbent #1 WR. Of course, A.J. Smith was a moron.

True but that was a weird situation and they had that year long fight. Also he had a DUI and some other problems off the field I believe.

 

[mikmak8902]

You think Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce were beating defenders with their height?

I just think they were 3 inches taller than the WR's you are comparing them to, so it's not apples to apples. Let me ask you this. If you have two receivers that are 4.3 guys, with great hands, and both run superior routes, do you want the one that is 3 inches taller or 3 inches shorter?

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Moncrief may be the most overrated WR in all of FF right now.

I don't care what you think you know about him, the fact that essentially the entire NFL passed on a guy with his size and measurables three times should tell you something important.

 

[Steed]

I think watching T.Y. Hilton is an exercise in seeing what a good athlete with sub-par skills can do with the best ball-tosser in the free world as his QB. I don't think he runs routes, makes plays, or even catches particularly well. But he's fast and has been part of the system for a couple years. And all you need is a tiny bit of separation for a guy like Luck to put the ball in your hands as you streak through a very small window most QB's couldn't make use of.

I think Dorsett is a better WR than T.Y.

T.Y. will certainly start the year as a much, much bigger part of the passing O. But I think by the end of the year, it could be painfully obvious that he's no better than the third-best WR on that roster. He may still end the year with the best numbers, but the writing will be on the wall by week ten or so. And if he bolts in FA, I think a lot of people may be disappointed to see how mediocre he is with pretty much any other QB at the helm.

Dorset isn't even as good as Tyler Lockett, how can he be better than Hilton?

LOL

I guess people didn't watch the Senior Bowl practices. LOL. Too caught up on measurables.

Your arrogance is what people lol at. I'm sure Pagano and the gang watched everything.

This isn't about Pagano. I don't care what Pagano thinks. I care what you think and what you see. Pagano doesn't care what I see and think. I'm not being arrogant. Just factful.

I've never watched the kid play a down. Don't know anything about him other than a pretty good NFL front office picked him over the hundreds of players available to them. I follow the money more often than not.

Outside of being handed Luck, that front office hasnt done much.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

He's not better than Moncrief.

I think he's absolutely better than Moncreif. Moncreif is freakish on paper, but hasn't lived up to those numbers. He has yet to develop, but made some plays last year. Dorsett is extremely underrated because he never had the opportunity to produce like Cooks in college. The thing I have questions about, in comparison to Cooks, would be his contested catch ability. But Cooks' Steve Smith-like ability in that area coming out was pretty rare, so it's not a surprise that Dorsett isn't on his level there. There are still tons of ways he can win with Luck as his QB.

 

[Xue]

He's not better than Moncrief.

I think he's absolutely better than Moncreif. Moncreif is freakish on paper, but hasn't lived up to those numbers. He has yet to develop, but made some plays last year. Dorsett is extremely underrated because he never had the opportunity to produce like Cooks in college. The thing I have questions about, in comparison to Cooks, would be his contested catch ability. But Cooks' Steve Smith-like ability in that area coming out was pretty rare, so it's not a surprise that Dorsett isn't on his level there. There are still tons of ways he can win with Luck as his QB.

Moncrief is 7 months younger than Dorsett. He's young enough where we haven't seen his best yet. LOL at the people writing him off already. Sometimes NFL teams are too stupid to see what they have.

 

[Xue]

I think watching T.Y. Hilton is an exercise in seeing what a good athlete with sub-par skills can do with the best ball-tosser in the free world as his QB. I don't think he runs routes, makes plays, or even catches particularly well. But he's fast and has been part of the system for a couple years. And all you need is a tiny bit of separation for a guy like Luck to put the ball in your hands as you streak through a very small window most QB's couldn't make use of.

I think Dorsett is a better WR than T.Y.

T.Y. will certainly start the year as a much, much bigger part of the passing O. But I think by the end of the year, it could be painfully obvious that he's no better than the third-best WR on that roster. He may still end the year with the best numbers, but the writing will be on the wall by week ten or so. And if he bolts in FA, I think a lot of people may be disappointed to see how mediocre he is with pretty much any other QB at the helm.

Dorset isn't even as good as Tyler Lockett, how can he be better than Hilton?

LOL

I guess people didn't watch the Senior Bowl practices. LOL. Too caught up on measurables.

Your arrogance is what people lol at. I'm sure Pagano and the gang watched everything.

This isn't about Pagano. I don't care what Pagano thinks. I care what you think and what you see. Pagano doesn't care what I see and think. I'm not being arrogant. Just factful.

I've never watched the kid play a down. Don't know anything about him other than a pretty good NFL front office picked him over the hundreds of players available to them. I follow the money more often than not.

What's the reason they picked him over the hundreds of players available to them?

 

[Xue]

Moncrief may be the most overrated WR in all of FF right now.

I don't care what you think you know about him, the fact that essentially the entire NFL passed on a guy with his size and measurables three times should tell you something important.

And DHB going high 1st round should tell you something. Tavon Austin too. Cordarrelle Patterson in the late 1st should tell you something too. I see how this works.

Marqise Lee getting taken ahead of Allen Robinson should tell me something.

 

[Sabertooth]

Yep Julio and Fitzgerald too

 

[Sabertooth]

I think watching T.Y. Hilton is an exercise in seeing what a good athlete with sub-par skills can do with the best ball-tosser in the free world as his QB. I don't think he runs routes, makes plays, or even catches particularly well. But he's fast and has been part of the system for a couple years. And all you need is a tiny bit of separation for a guy like Luck to put the ball in your hands as you streak through a very small window most QB's couldn't make use of.

I think Dorsett is a better WR than T.Y.

T.Y. will certainly start the year as a much, much bigger part of the passing O. But I think by the end of the year, it could be painfully obvious that he's no better than the third-best WR on that roster. He may still end the year with the best numbers, but the writing will be on the wall by week ten or so. And if he bolts in FA, I think a lot of people may be disappointed to see how mediocre he is with pretty much any other QB at the helm.

Dorset isn't even as good as Tyler Lockett, how can he be better than Hilton?

LOL

I guess people didn't watch the Senior Bowl practices. LOL. Too caught up on measurables.

Your arrogance is what people lol at. I'm sure Pagano and the gang watched everything.

This isn't about Pagano. I don't care what Pagano thinks. I care what you think and what you see. Pagano doesn't care what I see and think. I'm not being arrogant. Just factful.

I've never watched the kid play a down. Don't know anything about him other than a pretty good NFL front office picked him over the hundreds of players available to them. I follow the money more often than not.

What's the reason they picked him over the hundreds of players available to them?

He's better in their opinion.

 

[Jeremy's Spoken]

I think watching T.Y. Hilton is an exercise in seeing what a good athlete with sub-par skills can do with the best ball-tosser in the free world as his QB. I don't think he runs routes, makes plays, or even catches particularly well. But he's fast and has been part of the system for a couple years. And all you need is a tiny bit of separation for a guy like Luck to put the ball in your hands as you streak through a very small window most QB's couldn't make use of.

I think Dorsett is a better WR than T.Y.

T.Y. will certainly start the year as a much, much bigger part of the passing O. But I think by the end of the year, it could be painfully obvious that he's no better than the third-best WR on that roster. He may still end the year with the best numbers, but the writing will be on the wall by week ten or so. And if he bolts in FA, I think a lot of people may be disappointed to see how mediocre he is with pretty much any other QB at the helm.

Dorset isn't even as good as Tyler Lockett, how can he be better than Hilton?

LOL

I guess people didn't watch the Senior Bowl practices. LOL. Too caught up on measurables.

Your arrogance is what people lol at. I'm sure Pagano and the gang watched everything.

This isn't about Pagano. I don't care what Pagano thinks. I care what you think and what you see. Pagano doesn't care what I see and think. I'm not being arrogant. Just factful.

Sabertooth has no ability to make an opinion.The following is for sure:

Saber tooth doesn't change his own oil, do his own taxes, cut his own grass, do his own shopping. He hires everything out...

I wonder what he does for a living? It can't be that meaningful as he does nothing meaningful himself as he is an expert at nothing and is unable to make his own judgements and have his own opinions. He must be a municipal employee or work in HR or something....

He completely relies on other people's opinion - he is not a difference-maker - adds no value...

 

[Coeur de Lion]

I think watching T.Y. Hilton is an exercise in seeing what a good athlete with sub-par skills can do with the best ball-tosser in the free world as his QB. I don't think he runs routes, makes plays, or even catches particularly well. But he's fast and has been part of the system for a couple years. And all you need is a tiny bit of separation for a guy like Luck to put the ball in your hands as you streak through a very small window most QB's couldn't make use of.

I think Dorsett is a better WR than T.Y.

T.Y. will certainly start the year as a much, much bigger part of the passing O. But I think by the end of the year, it could be painfully obvious that he's no better than the third-best WR on that roster. He may still end the year with the best numbers, but the writing will be on the wall by week ten or so. And if he bolts in FA, I think a lot of people may be disappointed to see how mediocre he is with pretty much any other QB at the helm.

Dorset isn't even as good as Tyler Lockett, how can he be better than Hilton?

LOL

I guess people didn't watch the Senior Bowl practices. LOL. Too caught up on measurables.

Your arrogance is what people lol at. I'm sure Pagano and the gang watched everything.

This isn't about Pagano. I don't care what Pagano thinks. I care what you think and what you see. Pagano doesn't care what I see and think. I'm not being arrogant. Just factful.

Sabertooth has no ability to make an opinion.The following is for sure:

Saber tooth doesn't change his own oil, do his own taxes, cut his own grass, do his own shopping. He hires everything out...

I wonder what he does for a living? It can't be that meaningful as he does nothing meaningful himself as he is an expert at nothing and is unable to make his own judgements and have his own opinions. He must be a municipal employee or work in HR or something....

He completely relies on other people's opinion - he is not a difference-maker - adds no value...

I'm guessing that maybe you should take some time to sit back and maybe go with someone else's FF opinion after relentlessly pimping Sankey and the RBs last year over the WRs. That was quite possibly the worst call ever in the history of anything.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Moncrief may be the most overrated WR in all of FF right now.

I don't care what you think you know about him, the fact that essentially the entire NFL passed on a guy with his size and measurables three times should tell you something important.

And DHB going high 1st round should tell you something. Tavon Austin too. Cordarrelle Patterson in the late 1st should tell you something too. I see how this works.

Marqise Lee getting taken ahead of Allen Robinson should tell me something.

And John Crockett is better than all those RB you ranked behind him? Because you said so and watched him practice for a week, right?

 

[Jeremy's Spoken]

I think watching T.Y. Hilton is an exercise in seeing what a good athlete with sub-par skills can do with the best ball-tosser in the free world as his QB. I don't think he runs routes, makes plays, or even catches particularly well. But he's fast and has been part of the system for a couple years. And all you need is a tiny bit of separation for a guy like Luck to put the ball in your hands as you streak through a very small window most QB's couldn't make use of.

I think Dorsett is a better WR than T.Y.

T.Y. will certainly start the year as a much, much bigger part of the passing O. But I think by the end of the year, it could be painfully obvious that he's no better than the third-best WR on that roster. He may still end the year with the best numbers, but the writing will be on the wall by week ten or so. And if he bolts in FA, I think a lot of people may be disappointed to see how mediocre he is with pretty much any other QB at the helm.

Dorset isn't even as good as Tyler Lockett, how can he be better than Hilton?

LOL

I guess people didn't watch the Senior Bowl practices. LOL. Too caught up on measurables.

Your arrogance is what people lol at. I'm sure Pagano and the gang watched everything.

This isn't about Pagano. I don't care what Pagano thinks. I care what you think and what you see. Pagano doesn't care what I see and think. I'm not being arrogant. Just factful.

Sabertooth has no ability to make an opinion.The following is for sure:

Saber tooth doesn't change his own oil, do his own taxes, cut his own grass, do his own shopping. He hires everything out...

I wonder what he does for a living? It can't be that meaningful as he does nothing meaningful himself as he is an expert at nothing and is unable to make his own judgements and have his own opinions. He must be a municipal employee or work in HR or something....

He completely relies on other people's opinion - he is not a difference-maker - adds no value...

I'm guessing that maybe you should take some time to sit back and maybe go with someone else's FF opinion after relentlessly pimping Sankey and the RBs last year over the WRs. That was quite possibly the worst call ever in the history of anything.

What- you play in a start 1 RB, 5 WR league with 5 flexes?Well if that's the case - go and draft WR's until the cows come home...

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Moncrief may be the most overrated WR in all of FF right now.

I don't care what you think you know about him, the fact that essentially the entire NFL passed on a guy with his size and measurables three times should tell you something important.

And DHB going high 1st round should tell you something. Tavon Austin too. Cordarrelle Patterson in the late 1st should tell you something too. I see how this works.

Marqise Lee getting taken ahead of Allen Robinson should tell me something.

Not really interested in tangling with a guy who can start a fight in an empty room, so you can have the last word.

But yes... individual teams make bad picks all the time.

That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about 29 teams having the opportunity to draft a 21-year old, 220 pound WR, from the SEC, who was heavily involved in his team's offense and runs a combine-timed 4.40 -- and passing three times.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

I think watching T.Y. Hilton is an exercise in seeing what a good athlete with sub-par skills can do with the best ball-tosser in the free world as his QB. I don't think he runs routes, makes plays, or even catches particularly well. But he's fast and has been part of the system for a couple years. And all you need is a tiny bit of separation for a guy like Luck to put the ball in your hands as you streak through a very small window most QB's couldn't make use of.

I think Dorsett is a better WR than T.Y.

T.Y. will certainly start the year as a much, much bigger part of the passing O. But I think by the end of the year, it could be painfully obvious that he's no better than the third-best WR on that roster. He may still end the year with the best numbers, but the writing will be on the wall by week ten or so. And if he bolts in FA, I think a lot of people may be disappointed to see how mediocre he is with pretty much any other QB at the helm.

Dorset isn't even as good as Tyler Lockett, how can he be better than Hilton?

LOL

I guess people didn't watch the Senior Bowl practices. LOL. Too caught up on measurables.

Your arrogance is what people lol at. I'm sure Pagano and the gang watched everything.

This isn't about Pagano. I don't care what Pagano thinks. I care what you think and what you see. Pagano doesn't care what I see and think. I'm not being arrogant. Just factful.

Sabertooth has no ability to make an opinion.The following is for sure:

Saber tooth doesn't change his own oil, do his own taxes, cut his own grass, do his own shopping. He hires everything out...

I wonder what he does for a living? It can't be that meaningful as he does nothing meaningful himself as he is an expert at nothing and is unable to make his own judgements and have his own opinions. He must be a municipal employee or work in HR or something....

He completely relies on other people's opinion - he is not a difference-maker - adds no value...

I'm guessing that maybe you should take some time to sit back and maybe go with someone else's FF opinion after relentlessly pimping Sankey and the RBs last year over the WRs. That was quite possibly the worst call ever in the history of anything.

What- you play in a start 1 RB, 5 WR league with 5 flexes?Well if that's the case - go and draft WR's until the cows come home...

It doesn't matter what system you play in, guy. Taking the mediocre middle round scrub RBs from last year over the ridiculous talent at WR was brutal. Both at the time and even worse now in hindsight. Own it, and maybe try to be less of a doosh and you might learn something from the folks clearly better at this than you are.

 

[Jeremy's Spoken]

Sure buddy - clearly...

SMB

 

[menobrown]

Don't discount the possibility that Dorsett might just be the most talented receiver on the team. Because he was certainly drafted the highest. Just saying. What if he's just simply better than Hilton and makes that apparent in the next 12 months?

There wasn't much excitement about Hilton when he came out. Myself and many others thought he was too small. Just a slot guy. No FF value.

Well, look at him now. This feels a bit like that. I think the big factor that you have to love is Luck. A QB like that can turn a lot of WRs into gold.

Reminds me of when Randall Cobb came out. He was lasting until middle second round of drafts mainly due to crowded group or WR's and in part because of his size which made him just a slot guy in most people's opinion.

Sometimes you got to be patient even if it's looks like a crowded group, especially when a guy like Andrew Luck throwing to you is the reward.

If any of you don't like Dorsett that's your opinion and I'll leave you to it. If any of you don't like him because the Indy WR/TE situation is crowded I'd tell you I agree with you, for the 2015 season.

But Hilton and both TE's are entering the final year of their contracts and Andre is a 1-2 year player. Like with Cobb we are seeing Dorsett entering a crowed situation with a great QB, a situation that likely won't look nearly as crowded next year but will still have a great young QB in place.

 

[jurb26]

Moncrief sucks. Indy knows it so they basically went out of their way this offseason to replace him.

I've not been a big fan of Dorsett but Indy taking him as highly as they did has to make you take notice. If you can't acknowledge that, you're intentionally obtuse.

Dorsett flashed skills this offseason I didn't think he had. It could be a case of him just not being asked to do much. Like a RB that "can't catch" simply because he was never asked too.

Pairing with Luck in a pretty friendly system, along with the high investment by Indy has to make you rethink Dorsett.

 

[Sabertooth]

I think watching T.Y. Hilton is an exercise in seeing what a good athlete with sub-par skills can do with the best ball-tosser in the free world as his QB. I don't think he runs routes, makes plays, or even catches particularly well. But he's fast and has been part of the system for a couple years. And all you need is a tiny bit of separation for a guy like Luck to put the ball in your hands as you streak through a very small window most QB's couldn't make use of.

I think Dorsett is a better WR than T.Y.

T.Y. will certainly start the year as a much, much bigger part of the passing O. But I think by the end of the year, it could be painfully obvious that he's no better than the third-best WR on that roster. He may still end the year with the best numbers, but the writing will be on the wall by week ten or so. And if he bolts in FA, I think a lot of people may be disappointed to see how mediocre he is with pretty much any other QB at the helm.

Dorset isn't even as good as Tyler Lockett, how can he be better than Hilton?

LOL

I guess people didn't watch the Senior Bowl practices. LOL. Too caught up on measurables.

Your arrogance is what people lol at. I'm sure Pagano and the gang watched everything.

This isn't about Pagano. I don't care what Pagano thinks. I care what you think and what you see. Pagano doesn't care what I see and think. I'm not being arrogant. Just factful.

Sabertooth has no ability to make an opinion.The following is for sure:

Saber tooth doesn't change his own oil, do his own taxes, cut his own grass, do his own shopping. He hires everything out...

I wonder what he does for a living? It can't be that meaningful as he does nothing meaningful himself as he is an expert at nothing and is unable to make his own judgements and have his own opinions. He must be a municipal employee or work in HR or something....

He completely relies on other people's opinion - he is not a difference-maker - adds no value...

Lol. At least I don't change my username to run and hide from all my past whiffs.

 

[Jeremy's Spoken]

I think watching T.Y. Hilton is an exercise in seeing what a good athlete with sub-par skills can do with the best ball-tosser in the free world as his QB. I don't think he runs routes, makes plays, or even catches particularly well. But he's fast and has been part of the system for a couple years. And all you need is a tiny bit of separation for a guy like Luck to put the ball in your hands as you streak through a very small window most QB's couldn't make use of.

I think Dorsett is a better WR than T.Y.

T.Y. will certainly start the year as a much, much bigger part of the passing O. But I think by the end of the year, it could be painfully obvious that he's no better than the third-best WR on that roster. He may still end the year with the best numbers, but the writing will be on the wall by week ten or so. And if he bolts in FA, I think a lot of people may be disappointed to see how mediocre he is with pretty much any other QB at the helm.

Dorset isn't even as good as Tyler Lockett, how can he be better than Hilton?

LOL

I guess people didn't watch the Senior Bowl practices. LOL. Too caught up on measurables.

Your arrogance is what people lol at. I'm sure Pagano and the gang watched everything.

This isn't about Pagano. I don't care what Pagano thinks. I care what you think and what you see. Pagano doesn't care what I see and think. I'm not being arrogant. Just factful.

Sabertooth has no ability to make an opinion.The following is for sure:

Saber tooth doesn't change his own oil, do his own taxes, cut his own grass, do his own shopping. He hires everything out...

I wonder what he does for a living? It can't be that meaningful as he does nothing meaningful himself as he is an expert at nothing and is unable to make his own judgements and have his own opinions. He must be a municipal employee or work in HR or something....

He completely relies on other people's opinion - he is not a difference-maker - adds no value...

Lol. At least I don't change my username to run and hide from all my past whiffs.

Who would do that?

You don't have any wiffs... In your case NFL GM's have wiffs...

 

[pizzatyme]

You think Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce were beating defenders with their height?

I just think they were 3 inches taller than the WR's you are comparing them to, so it's not apples to apples. Let me ask you this. If you have two receivers that are 4.3 guys, with great hands, and both run superior routes, do you want the one that is 3 inches taller or 3 inches shorter?

That was never the point. The point was that a smallish tandem of WRs has worked previously and will work again. Talent trumps most everything.

 

[renesauz]

I've done three rookie drafts so far. All three were dev leagues with depleted talent pools (guys like Gurley, Cooper, and Gordon were picked in college). I had a pick between 8-10 in every draft and Dorsett fell to my pick every time. I haven't seen rookie ADP data yet, but it looks like he's going to land between 12-15 in most leagues. That seems pretty cheap to me for a speedy first round WR in a loaded offense with an elite QB. I guess I'm just surprised. I assumed after the draft that his ADP would be right up there with Agholor and Perriman.

We've seen in the past how a great QB can elevate his second and third options to weekly FF starter status. Look at what guys like Hilton, Cobb, Cooks, Welker, Decker, and even Lance Moore have done in recent years. To me it seems that any time you have a chance to grab a big piece of an explosive passing game, you should probably leap at it. Yet people are sleeping on Dorsett. I wasn't deliberately targeting him in any of my leagues, but at this rate I'm going to end up grabbing him on the majority of my teams.

He was the SIXTH WR taken, and there are at least 3 RBs that will go ahead of him in most drafts. If you slot him as WR6 that means the earliest he would go would be at pick 9 in a non-devy league. He wasn't generally being evaluated as a top 10-12 option pre-draft, so I'm surprised at your surprise.

 

[Sabertooth]

I think watching T.Y. Hilton is an exercise in seeing what a good athlete with sub-par skills can do with the best ball-tosser in the free world as his QB. I don't think he runs routes, makes plays, or even catches particularly well. But he's fast and has been part of the system for a couple years. And all you need is a tiny bit of separation for a guy like Luck to put the ball in your hands as you streak through a very small window most QB's couldn't make use of.

I think Dorsett is a better WR than T.Y.

T.Y. will certainly start the year as a much, much bigger part of the passing O. But I think by the end of the year, it could be painfully obvious that he's no better than the third-best WR on that roster. He may still end the year with the best numbers, but the writing will be on the wall by week ten or so. And if he bolts in FA, I think a lot of people may be disappointed to see how mediocre he is with pretty much any other QB at the helm.

Dorset isn't even as good as Tyler Lockett, how can he be better than Hilton?

LOL

I guess people didn't watch the Senior Bowl practices. LOL. Too caught up on measurables.

Your arrogance is what people lol at. I'm sure Pagano and the gang watched everything.

This isn't about Pagano. I don't care what Pagano thinks. I care what you think and what you see. Pagano doesn't care what I see and think. I'm not being arrogant. Just factful.

Sabertooth has no ability to make an opinion.The following is for sure:

Saber tooth doesn't change his own oil, do his own taxes, cut his own grass, do his own shopping. He hires everything out...

I wonder what he does for a living? It can't be that meaningful as he does nothing meaningful himself as he is an expert at nothing and is unable to make his own judgements and have his own opinions. He must be a municipal employee or work in HR or something....

He completely relies on other people's opinion - he is not a difference-maker - adds no value...

Lol. At least I don't change my username to run and hide from all my past whiffs.

Who would do that?

You don't have any wiffs... In your case NFL GM's have wiffs...

I don't watch Tape either. Why would I cut my own grass if there is an industry expert already out there cutting it for me?

 

[Xue]

Moncrief may be the most overrated WR in all of FF right now.

I don't care what you think you know about him, the fact that essentially the entire NFL passed on a guy with his size and measurables three times should tell you something important.

And DHB going high 1st round should tell you something. Tavon Austin too. Cordarrelle Patterson in the late 1st should tell you something too. I see how this works.Marqise Lee getting taken ahead of Allen Robinson should tell me something.

And John Crockett is better than all those RB you ranked behind him? Because you said so and watched him practice for a week, right?

LOL. Can't even stick to the topic of Dorsett and instead taking a shot at my rankings? Priceless. Why don't you go post in the proper thread so you can learn something.I would love to see you rank at least 15 RBs and WRs each based on your own independent thoughts.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Moncrief isn't even 22 yet. Anyone that thinks he sucks already is way too impatient.

 

[Xue]

I think watching T.Y. Hilton is an exercise in seeing what a good athlete with sub-par skills can do with the best ball-tosser in the free world as his QB. I don't think he runs routes, makes plays, or even catches particularly well. But he's fast and has been part of the system for a couple years. And all you need is a tiny bit of separation for a guy like Luck to put the ball in your hands as you streak through a very small window most QB's couldn't make use of.

I think Dorsett is a better WR than T.Y.

T.Y. will certainly start the year as a much, much bigger part of the passing O. But I think by the end of the year, it could be painfully obvious that he's no better than the third-best WR on that roster. He may still end the year with the best numbers, but the writing will be on the wall by week ten or so. And if he bolts in FA, I think a lot of people may be disappointed to see how mediocre he is with pretty much any other QB at the helm.

Dorset isn't even as good as Tyler Lockett, how can he be better than Hilton?

LOL

I guess people didn't watch the Senior Bowl practices. LOL. Too caught up on measurables.

Your arrogance is what people lol at. I'm sure Pagano and the gang watched everything.

This isn't about Pagano. I don't care what Pagano thinks. I care what you think and what you see. Pagano doesn't care what I see and think. I'm not being arrogant. Just factful.

Sabertooth has no ability to make an opinion.The following is for sure:

Saber tooth doesn't change his own oil, do his own taxes, cut his own grass, do his own shopping. He hires everything out...

I wonder what he does for a living? It can't be that meaningful as he does nothing meaningful himself as he is an expert at nothing and is unable to make his own judgements and have his own opinions. He must be a municipal employee or work in HR or something....

He completely relies on other people's opinion - he is not a difference-maker - adds no value...

Lol. At least I don't change my username to run and hide from all my past whiffs.

Who would do that?

You don't have any wiffs... In your case NFL GM's have wiffs...

I don't watch Tape either. Why would I cut my own grass if there is an industry expert already out there cutting it for me?

Who chooses the industry expert for you?

 

[EBF]

My favorite Dorsett stats:

21 of his 36 catches last season went for 15+ yards (58.3%).

14 of his 36 catches last season went for 25+ yards (38.9%).

To put that into perspective, here are the 15/25 percentages for other notable WR prospects:

Cooper - 31.5/12.1

White - 31.2/13.8
Parker - 53.5/14.6

Perriman - 56.0/26.0

Agholor - 29.8/8.6

Strong - 32.9/14.6

Lockett - 34.0/12.3

You can interpret these numbers as a sign that Dorsett is a one trick pony, but to me they indicate that he has a special ability to break very long receptions. Last year Cooper had 15 catches of 25+ yards on 124 total catches. Dorsett had 14 on just 36 catches. I think that big play prowess is what the Colts coveted and the value of that skill in this dynamic offense could be significant. I don't know that Dorsett is going to be a great possession guy, but from what I can tell he runs decent routes and has much better catching skills than the typical track star type.

I have watched a fair bit of the Colts in the last few seasons and I can't say TY Hilton's hands have looked great. He's a great athlete, but he seems to drop a fair amount of passes. Now think about another guy with similar tools and better hands. Well, it's not hard to imagine him being very successful in the same offense that has made Hilton a big producer.

 

[Sabertooth]

My favorite Dorsett stats:

21 of his 36 catches last season went for 15+ yards (58.3%).

14 of his 36 catches last season went for 25+ yards (38.9%).

To put that into perspective, here are the 15/25 percentages for other notable WR prospects:

Cooper - 31.5/12.1

White - 31.2/13.8

Parker - 53.5/14.6

Perriman - 56.0/26.0

Agholor - 29.8/8.6

Strong - 32.9/14.6

Lockett - 34.0/12.3

You can interpret these numbers as a sign that Dorsett is a one trick pony, but to me they indicate that he has a special ability to break very long receptions. Last year Cooper had 15 catches of 25+ yards on 124 total catches. Dorsett had 14 on just 36 catches. I think that big play prowess is what the Colts coveted and the value of that skill in this dynamic offense could be significant. I don't know that Dorsett is going to be a great possession guy, but from what I can tell he runs decent routes and has much better catching skills than the typical track star type.

I have watched a fair bit of the Colts in the last few seasons and I can't say TY Hilton's hands have looked great. He's a great athlete, but he seems to drop a fair amount of passes. Now think about another guy with similar tools and better hands. Well, it's not hard to imagine him being very successful in the same offense that has made Hilton a big producer.

I agree with this. Great insight. I am sitting at the 1.10 right now and Dorsett is looking a lot more desirable than Ajayi or some of other middling backs.

 

[FUBAR]

My favorite Dorsett stats:

21 of his 36 catches last season went for 15+ yards (58.3%).

14 of his 36 catches last season went for 25+ yards (38.9%).

To put that into perspective, here are the 15/25 percentages for other notable WR prospects:

Cooper - 31.5/12.1

White - 31.2/13.8

Parker - 53.5/14.6

Perriman - 56.0/26.0

Agholor - 29.8/8.6

Strong - 32.9/14.6

Lockett - 34.0/12.3

You can interpret these numbers as a sign that Dorsett is a one trick pony, but to me they indicate that he has a special ability to break very long receptions. Last year Cooper had 15 catches of 25+ yards on 124 total catches. Dorsett had 14 on just 36 catches. I think that big play prowess is what the Colts coveted and the value of that skill in this dynamic offense could be significant. I don't know that Dorsett is going to be a great possession guy, but from what I can tell he runs decent routes and has much better catching skills than the typical track star type.

I have watched a fair bit of the Colts in the last few seasons and I can't say TY Hilton's hands have looked great. He's a great athlete, but he seems to drop a fair amount of passes. Now think about another guy with similar tools and better hands. Well, it's not hard to imagine him being very successful in the same offense that has made Hilton a big producer.

Good stuff and I agree with your point, but the 36 receptions is a concern.

 

[Shutout]

I can't think of a team with an elite qb that let their wr1 walk.

The Chargers let Vincent Jackson walk when they had Rivers, which made Malcom Floyd the incumbent #1 WR. Of course, A.J. Smith was a moron.

Hell, AJ Smith basically dared VJAX to play for that team.

While VJax was great, Gates was the better receiver anyway.

BUt rivers throws such a great deep ball. Great teams find a way to use multiple weapons. Just seems like SMith kind of blocked progress there.

 

[pizzatyme]

I can't think of a team with an elite qb that let their wr1 walk.

The Chargers let Vincent Jackson walk when they had Rivers, which made Malcom Floyd the incumbent #1 WR. Of course, A.J. Smith was a moron.

Hell, AJ Smith basically dared VJAX to play for that team.

While VJax was great, Gates was the better receiver anyway.

BUt rivers throws such a great deep ball. Great teams find a way to use multiple weapons. Just seems like SMith kind of blocked progress there.

Sure he did! His ego was enormous!

 

[Spike]

Don't discount the possibility that Dorsett might just be the most talented receiver on the team. Because he was certainly drafted the highest. Just saying. What if he's just simply better than Hilton and makes that apparent in the next 12 months?

I think to be THAT clearly more talented, Dorsett would have been a bigger buzz name earlier. He was more of a riser vs. a guy that we have been talking about for two years.

He was also a senior, and, say what you want, but when you have that much clearly upper echelon talent, you don't stay for your senior year and decide to put a senior year into a new qb.

that he went to a big school makes a difference, but he doesn't have to have "clearly upper echelon talent" coming out of college to be the Colts best receiver.

That's true. I just get the impressions that this was a "cute" pick by the Colts. I don't think this was a case where it is commonly thought that this guy changes the COlts for the better. His speed and the smoothness of his speed is absolutely enticing. But at the end of the day, Luck and Hilton have something clicking and I don't think you offset that.

I think, early on, Dorsett will be Torrey Smith. He might have a 30+ point fantasy game on big plays. But with Gore there. And AJ. And Hilton. And Allan and Fleener, this isn't a guy that gets the volume to be consistent.

He is what several have said. Great Upside. Patience needed.

/thread

 

[pizzatyme]

Take this for what it's worth, but the GM Grigson is getting blasted locally for the pick and knowing Grigson's ego, I'd bet a lot of money that the Colts force feed Dorsett to make him relevant this year. I think the TEs take the biggest hit depending on the situation.

I honestly think the Colts looked at the Pats off-season losses in the defensive backfield and are trying to counter punch here. Just food for thought.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Take this for what it's worth, but the GM Grigson is getting blasted locally for the pick and knowing Grigson's ego, I'd bet a lot of money that the Colts force feed Dorsett to make him relevant this year. I think the TEs take the biggest hit depending on the situation.

I honestly think the Colts looked at the Pats off-season losses in the defensive backfield and are trying to counter punch here. Just food for thought.

You think Pagano/Pep would allow Grigson to tell him who to throw to on Sundays?

I don't think you believe that do you?

 

[pizzatyme]

Take this for what it's worth, but the GM Grigson is getting blasted locally for the pick and knowing Grigson's ego, I'd bet a lot of money that the Colts force feed Dorsett to make him relevant this year. I think the TEs take the biggest hit depending on the situation.

I honestly think the Colts looked at the Pats off-season losses in the defensive backfield and are trying to counter punch here. Just food for thought.

You think Pagano/Pep would allow Grigson to tell him who to throw to on Sundays?

I don't think you believe that do you?

Absolutely. You don't think GMs play a role in watching the players they draft excel? Polian did it and so does Grigson. Trent Richardson is a prime example.

 

[BeTheMatch]

Take this for what it's worth, but the GM Grigson is getting blasted locally for the pick and knowing Grigson's ego, I'd bet a lot of money that the Colts force feed Dorsett to make him relevant this year. I think the TEs take the biggest hit depending on the situation.

I honestly think the Colts looked at the Pats off-season losses in the defensive backfield and are trying to counter punch here. Just food for thought.

You think Pagano/Pep would allow Grigson to tell him who to throw to on Sundays?

I don't think you believe that do you?

Absolutely. You don't think GMs play a role in watching the players they draft exceed? Polian did it and so does Grigson. Trent Richardson is a prime example.

When PizzaTyme talks about the Colts, I listen.

 

[Shutout]

Take this for what it's worth, but the GM Grigson is getting blasted locally for the pick and knowing Grigson's ego, I'd bet a lot of money that the Colts force feed Dorsett to make him relevant this year. I think the TEs take the biggest hit depending on the situation.

I honestly think the Colts looked at the Pats off-season losses in the defensive backfield and are trying to counter punch here. Just food for thought.

If the colts were looking that hard at the Pats, then what they should have done is drafted a LBer that can cover in space and avoid the beatdowns the Pats gave them the last few years.

 

[FUBAR]

Take this for what it's worth, but the GM Grigson is getting blasted locally for the pick and knowing Grigson's ego, I'd bet a lot of money that the Colts force feed Dorsett to make him relevant this year. I think the TEs take the biggest hit depending on the situation.

I honestly think the Colts looked at the Pats off-season losses in the defensive backfield and are trying to counter punch here. Just food for thought.

You think Pagano/Pep would allow Grigson to tell him who to throw to on Sundays?

I don't think you believe that do you?

Peyton wouldn't care. Does Luck?

 

[FUBAR]

Take this for what it's worth, but the GM Grigson is getting blasted locally for the pick and knowing Grigson's ego, I'd bet a lot of money that the Colts force feed Dorsett to make him relevant this year. I think the TEs take the biggest hit depending on the situation.

I honestly think the Colts looked at the Pats off-season losses in the defensive backfield and are trying to counter punch here. Just food for thought.

If the colts were looking that hard at the Pats, then what they should have done is drafted a LBer that can cover in space and avoid the beatdowns the Pats gave them the last few years.

all they have to do is cover Gronk.

 

[Tony Soprano]

I draft between 9 and 12 in several of my leagues. I can see Dorsett being on more than one of my rosters. If current ADP holds to form, he's a very nice gamble for a late first.

 

[mikmak8902]

Moncrief may be the most overrated WR in all of FF right now.

I don't care what you think you know about him, the fact that essentially the entire NFL passed on a guy with his size and measurables three times should tell you something important.

Really hoping you're wrong but it's starting to look that way. I'm still holding out hope though as I have him in 2 dynasty leagues.

 

[Sabertooth]

Not to mention that when he looked ready to assume the role of Wayne, the Colts won the Duron Carter derby, signed the only stud WR in free agency, and then used a first round pick on the position. Not a ringing endorsement of Moncrief or Hilton IMO. But don't worry, Xue and Brewtown (Jeremy) watch "tape" and are scouts. Don't pay any attention to the fact that the Colts fired their guns, threw the guns, and then unbuckled their holsters and threw those at the wide receiver position as well. Tis but a flesh wound.

 

[mikmak8902]

You think Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce were beating defenders with their height?

I just think they were 3 inches taller than the WR's you are comparing them to, so it's not apples to apples. Let me ask you this. If you have two receivers that are 4.3 guys, with great hands, and both run superior routes, do you want the one that is 3 inches taller or 3 inches shorter?

That was never the point. The point was that a smallish tandem of WRs has worked previously and will work again. Talent trumps most everything.

OK ... Well, I'm not trying to argue with you. I just disagree that they are "smallish". 6 ft seems like a pretty standard height for a WR in the NFL. I could be wrong but I'm betting if I wasn't so lazy, I could find documentation that would put average NFL receiver height at about 6' - 6'3".

 

[Sabertooth]

Packers did just fine with Jennings and Driver too. Heck with a great QB, Bill Schroeder and Antonio Freeman are studs.

 

[Sabertooth]

You think Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce were beating defenders with their height?

I just think they were 3 inches taller than the WR's you are comparing them to, so it's not apples to apples. Let me ask you this. If you have two receivers that are 4.3 guys, with great hands, and both run superior routes, do you want the one that is 3 inches taller or 3 inches shorter?

That was never the point. The point was that a smallish tandem of WRs has worked previously and will work again. Talent trumps most everything.

OK ... Well, I'm not trying to argue with you. I just disagree that they are "smallish". 6 ft seems like a pretty standard height for a WR in the NFL. I could be wrong but I'm betting if I wasn't so lazy, I could find documentation that would put average NFL receiver height at about 6' - 6'3".

YOu are probably right. But I think the point is that you don't need to be 6'3 217 to succeed. I'm pretty sure over 50% of the top wideouts last year were under 6' and 200 lbs.