Pick plays - help me understand (1 Viewer)

[Judge Smails]

I see 10 plays every single week like the one called on Christian Watson tonight. 8 of them aren’t called. Looks exactly the same. What’s the deal?

 

[BobbyLayne]

Good question - it's definitely subjective and it almost seems like it's starting to be like holding, e.g., there's a lot of it going on, and it's not always called. So when it is, feels kind of sus.

• Blocking downfield before the ball is caught is strictly illegal.
• Where you get these "pick plays" are from a play design in which two players run past each other or have crossing route paths.
• This creates the same idea as a pick by
  A) The defender having to go around
  B) The defender dropping in line with his man and then being behind him or
  C) running into the other player.
• This isn't strictly illegal and fairly common because there isn't express blocking by any player in particular.
• Where we get into trouble is when the "picking" player goes out of his way to make contact, or blocks before the ball is caught.

Feels like the way they are calling it right now, a defender can run into a receiver on a "rub route," but a receiver can't run into a defender. That's a "pick play."

It is a really subjective rule and it is confusing IMO.

---

My first response to last night's OPI call on Watson (hit Kerby Joseph in the shoulder, sent him flying) was OK that looked pretty flagrant. Real time, looked like an obvious OPI.

Most folks saw the Thanksgiving Day game, Chicago's Cole Kmet was called for OPI twice on pick plays. He kind of didn't do a good job of stepping out of the way, e.g., if he had sidestepped enough to cause the defender to re-route, likely they won't call OPI. But instead it looked like he was the one initiating contact.

When you go back and look at Watson's OPI, sure does look like it's just a slant route. IIRC the wording of the rule puts the onus on the offensive player to avoid contact. If there is contact where the receiver runs their pattern directly into the defender, that's gonna get called 10/10. I'm not certain the Watson/Joseph call was really as obvious as I first thought.

Would love to hear other opinions, and if I have not been clear (or 100% correct) in my understanding of OPI - please LMK where I missed the mark.

 

[zed2283]

I think it's pretty simple and they must have awful WR coaches in the league.

Good description above.

 

[fatness]

My first response to last night's OPI call on Watson (hit Kerby Joseph in the shoulder, sent him flying) was OK that looked pretty flagrant. Real time, looked like an obvious OPI.

If I'm remembering correctly, my first response was "How could that be OPI if the ball wasn't in the air yet?"

 

[BobbyLayne]

My first response to last night's OPI call on Watson (hit Kerby Joseph in the shoulder, sent him flying) was OK that looked pretty flagrant. Real time, looked like an obvious OPI.

If I'm remembering correctly, my first response was "How could that be OPI if the ball wasn't in the air yet?"

Surprisingly, that’s called…offensive pass interference.

“If a receiver commits offensive pass interference (OPI) before the ball is thrown, it is still considered a penalty and will be called by the referee; the receiver will be penalized even though the pass hasn't been released yet, as long as their actions significantly impede the defender's ability to cover them.”

Sometimes…but not always?

“Key points to remember:

• Timing matters:
  OPI only applies once the quarterback starts their throwing motion, so if a receiver makes contact with a defender before the quarterback begins to throw, it might be called as "illegal contact" instead of OPI depending on the specific situation.”
  
  NFL Operations - Interference
  
  

 

[fatness]

I thought it was illegal contact, if anything, but I couldn't see if the QB's arm was in motion yet.

 

[jtd13]

I don't have anything to add to the thorough description from @BobbyLayne, but subjectively the call last night looked to me like a play that happens fairly often without getting called. The 2 on Kmet the prior week were much more egregious.

 

[eighsse2]

@BobbyLayne should be paid for this kind of pertinent detail retrieval and explanation service.

 

[packer_junkie]

Good question - it's definitely subjective and it almost seems like it's starting to be like holding, e.g., there's a lot of it going on, and it's not always called. So when it is, feels kind of sus.

• Blocking downfield before the ball is caught is strictly illegal.
• Where you get these "pick plays" are from a play design in which two players run past each other or have crossing route paths.
• This creates the same idea as a pick by
  A) The defender having to go around
  B) The defender dropping in line with his man and then being behind him or
  C) running into the other player.
• This isn't strictly illegal and fairly common because there isn't express blocking by any player in particular.
• Where we get into trouble is when the "picking" player goes out of his way to make contact, or blocks before the ball is caught.

Feels like the way they are calling it right now, a defender can run into a receiver on a "rub route," but a receiver can't run into a defender. That's a "pick play."

It is a really subjective rule and it is confusing IMO.

---

My first response to last night's OPI call on Watson (hit Kerby Joseph in the shoulder, sent him flying) was OK that looked pretty flagrant. Real time, looked like an obvious OPI.

Most folks saw the Thanksgiving Day game, Chicago's Cole Kmet was called for OPI twice on pick plays. He kind of didn't do a good job of stepping out of the way, e.g., if he had sidestepped enough to cause the defender to re-route, likely they won't call OPI. But instead it looked like he was the one initiating contact.

When you go back and look at Watson's OPI, sure does look like it's just a slant route. IIRC the wording of the rule puts the onus on the offensive player to avoid contact. If there is contact where the receiver runs their pattern directly into the defender, that's gonna get called 10/10. I'm not certain the Watson/Joseph call was really as obvious as I first thought.

Would love to hear other opinions, and if I have not been clear (or 100% correct) in my understanding of OPI - please LMK where I missed the mark.

Watson did Exactly what the Lions WR Patrick did on one of his touchdowns---- Same exact thing. I am not sure why some are called and others aren't.

Would guess if tough guy Joseph tries to fight through contact its not called but since he flopped like a dog (just like the LIons Tackle did after shoving quay after the whistle, than winked at the camera-- it was called).

Tip of the cap to Detroit honestly-- two huge flops resulted in two huge flags. Lions fans should be really proud

 

[jtd13]

Good question - it's definitely subjective and it almost seems like it's starting to be like holding, e.g., there's a lot of it going on, and it's not always called. So when it is, feels kind of sus.

• Blocking downfield before the ball is caught is strictly illegal.
• Where you get these "pick plays" are from a play design in which two players run past each other or have crossing route paths.
• This creates the same idea as a pick by
  A) The defender having to go around
  B) The defender dropping in line with his man and then being behind him or
  C) running into the other player.
• This isn't strictly illegal and fairly common because there isn't express blocking by any player in particular.
• Where we get into trouble is when the "picking" player goes out of his way to make contact, or blocks before the ball is caught.

Feels like the way they are calling it right now, a defender can run into a receiver on a "rub route," but a receiver can't run into a defender. That's a "pick play."

It is a really subjective rule and it is confusing IMO.

---

My first response to last night's OPI call on Watson (hit Kerby Joseph in the shoulder, sent him flying) was OK that looked pretty flagrant. Real time, looked like an obvious OPI.

Most folks saw the Thanksgiving Day game, Chicago's Cole Kmet was called for OPI twice on pick plays. He kind of didn't do a good job of stepping out of the way, e.g., if he had sidestepped enough to cause the defender to re-route, likely they won't call OPI. But instead it looked like he was the one initiating contact.

When you go back and look at Watson's OPI, sure does look like it's just a slant route. IIRC the wording of the rule puts the onus on the offensive player to avoid contact. If there is contact where the receiver runs their pattern directly into the defender, that's gonna get called 10/10. I'm not certain the Watson/Joseph call was really as obvious as I first thought.

Would love to hear other opinions, and if I have not been clear (or 100% correct) in my understanding of OPI - please LMK where I missed the mark.

Watson did Exactly what the Lions WR Patrick did on one of his touchdowns---- Same exact thing. I am not sure why some are called and others aren't.

Would guess if tough guy Joseph tries to fight through contact its not called but since he flopped like a dog (just like the LIons Tackle did after shoving quay after the whistle, than winked at the camera-- it was called).

Tip of the cap to Detroit honestly-- two huge flops resulted in two huge flags. Lions fans should be really proud

I didn't like the call, but did the packers defense in the second half give you any reason to believe they'd have kept the lions out of the end zone if the lions needed it? They had chances to end the game, but the defense was manhandled all 2nd half.

 

[packer_junkie]

I think DET scores a TD probably yes.

Alot of talk about DET Injuries and rightfullty so

GB was without CB1, S2, and starting Nickel the entire second half + their best coverage LB

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

Good question - it's definitely subjective and it almost seems like it's starting to be like holding, e.g., there's a lot of it going on, and it's not always called. So when it is, feels kind of sus.

• Blocking downfield before the ball is caught is strictly illegal.
• Where you get these "pick plays" are from a play design in which two players run past each other or have crossing route paths.
• This creates the same idea as a pick by
  A) The defender having to go around
  B) The defender dropping in line with his man and then being behind him or
  C) running into the other player.
• This isn't strictly illegal and fairly common because there isn't express blocking by any player in particular.
• Where we get into trouble is when the "picking" player goes out of his way to make contact, or blocks before the ball is caught.

Feels like the way they are calling it right now, a defender can run into a receiver on a "rub route," but a receiver can't run into a defender. That's a "pick play."

It is a really subjective rule and it is confusing IMO.

---

My first response to last night's OPI call on Watson (hit Kerby Joseph in the shoulder, sent him flying) was OK that looked pretty flagrant. Real time, looked like an obvious OPI.

Most folks saw the Thanksgiving Day game, Chicago's Cole Kmet was called for OPI twice on pick plays. He kind of didn't do a good job of stepping out of the way, e.g., if he had sidestepped enough to cause the defender to re-route, likely they won't call OPI. But instead it looked like he was the one initiating contact.

When you go back and look at Watson's OPI, sure does look like it's just a slant route. IIRC the wording of the rule puts the onus on the offensive player to avoid contact. If there is contact where the receiver runs their pattern directly into the defender, that's gonna get called 10/10. I'm not certain the Watson/Joseph call was really as obvious as I first thought.

Would love to hear other opinions, and if I have not been clear (or 100% correct) in my understanding of OPI - please LMK where I missed the mark.

Watson did Exactly what the Lions WR Patrick did on one of his touchdowns---- Same exact thing. I am not sure why some are called and others aren't.

Would guess if tough guy Joseph tries to fight through contact its not called but since he flopped like a dog (just like the LIons Tackle did after shoving quay after the whistle, than winked at the camera-- it was called).

Tip of the cap to Detroit honestly-- two huge flops resulted in two huge flags. Lions fans should be really proud

These calls are incredibly hard to make (unless it is egregious, like the Cole Kmet ones last week) in real time. That's why there will always be inconsistency.

 

[da_budman]

Im not sure about the rule all I know is I might have needed a new tv if Jacobs scored a FOURTH td in that game against me.

 

[Brunell4MVP]

In basketball defenses switch. No idea why CBs don't play bump coverage then switch. I guess like a man-zone scheme. You play man until another guy runs into your zone. It seems obvious when it's coming. I feel like they should be jumping the route underneath