Picking 12th in a 12 team league.......... (1 Viewer)

[wannabee]

There is no STUD WR in the mold of Rice, TO (as a niner), etc.

I disagree - I see no reason why SS won't repeat or come close to his 2005 target and production numbers - he was doubled like a madman last year and still was huge - a viable #2 will only help him.I also believe that a healthy Carsopn Palmer = CJohn as the clearest cut #1 FF WR this year - questions about Palmer's health, however, are viable.

I see no way Harrison is not worth a high draft pick just b/c of his age (34 aint that old for WRs) - and you should EXPECT double-D TDs and 85-ish or more catches for near 1200 or over. That's a stud WR when you consider he rarely throws you garbage games (though his 5 garbage games in 2005 were the most he's had in quite a few years).

Not saying that makes the case for stud-WR - it doesn't - but i will agree with the idea that it is reasonable to believe there will not be a top crew of WRs that are clearly head and shoulders above the rest

You HAVE TO have that happen for stu-WR to work - drafting two of Harrinson, TO and Moss a few years back guaranteed you two-thirds of the top-3 WRs, which could have been worked into a huge advantage.

not this year

The point of the whole post, which you only quoted a small part, was that there is no sure WR1. If you look at most drafts going on now, there are three WRs that switch off as the first WR drafted (Fitz, Smith, and CJ) and a few with Holt going first. Back in the day when stud WR was viable, imo, was when you could have an anchor WR in the first round. Also, imo, the WRs4-10 (not in any order: Boldin, Holt, Chambers, Harrison, TO, Moss, and Harrison) each have as good of chance to be WR1 at the end of the season as each of the WR1-3 (Fitz, Smith, and CJ).

The point is that with this depth at WR, you do not have to draft a WR in first. In fact, if you do so, you leave a ton of value on the table. That was in part of the post you omitted. A first round RB and second round WR will out score the WR/RB or WR/WR. This is because you can get Harrison, Chambers or even Moss in the 3rd round. Whereas the WR dropoff is not steep this year through the first 10 WRs, the dropoff at RB is.

but there was no clear cut #1 in the Harrison-Moss-TO years, either.I'd say it will be extremely rare for SS, CJohn or Fitz not to be the first pick in every draft this year. Some freek in SF or Oak might draft TO or Moss as the #1 WR, but in the vast a majority of drafts, those three will be the first three gone.

Your point was noted.

My point is that I hope you are right in every draft I am in.

 

[Marc Levin]

back on topic, I think we are in agreement all around that you should not go stud-WR from the 12-hole.

considering the depth at QB, I would strongl;y argue for RB-RB, then WR-WR at 3/4. I might go RB-WR 1/2 and then I'd make sure to go RB-WR at 3/4. Getting 2 WRs and 2 RBs in the first 4 rounds is, IMO, crucial to a successful 12-hole draft.

You make up your ground on th eother players in rounds 6 forward when you can maximize value with back to back picks - you are, essentially, on the same standing by the 7/8 turn as the #1 guy, but only if you have out drafted him at either RB1 + RB2 or at RB2 + WR1 with your picks at the turn.

 

[Shoeless Joe]

back on topic, I think we are in agreement all around that you should not go stud-WR from the 12-hole.

considering the depth at QB, I would strongl;y argue for RB-RB, then WR-WR at 3/4. I might go RB-WR 1/2 and then I'd make sure to go RB-WR at 3/4. Getting 2 WRs and 2 RBs in the first 4 rounds is, IMO, crucial to a successful 12-hole draft.

You make up your ground on th eother players in rounds 6 forward when you can maximize value with back to back picks - you are, essentially, on the same standing by the 7/8 turn as the #1 guy, but only if you have out drafted him at either RB1 + RB2 or at RB2 + WR1 with your picks at the turn.

Marc,Can you elaborate on your comment about drafting 2 RBs and 2 WRs in the first four rounds being crucial to a successful 12-hole draft? Are you stressing the importance of filling 4 starting slots with these first four picks (to maximize total points) over building depth at RB (only to have one RB sitting on your bench each week)? Or, are you suggesting that drafting 2 RBs then 2 WRs puts you in a situation to take advantage of one of the RB Relays discussed in other threads at 5.12/6.01 and build depth at RB that way?

How do you feel about going RB WR at 1/2 and RB RB at 3/4? That would seem to allow you to grab the best available RB at 1.12, a stud WR at 2.01, and then hedge your RB position by taking two RBs at 3.12 and 4.01 with the hope that one of these two would become a productive RB2 and the other a solid bye week replacement (or insurance in case of major bust or injury). I'm asking this with the assumption that two RBs like Jamal Lewis, Chester Taylor, Warrick Dunn, or Corey Dillon may be available with your 3/4 picks.

Thanks,

Shoeless Joe

 

[Marc Levin]

Very good questions Shoeless Joe. I am happy to explain my thought process.

I only advocated 2 RBs and 2 WRs in the first four rounds b/c I believe you can't afford to fall behind at those two spots - at least not with your RB1 and WR1. when you have 2 RBs and 2 WRs from the first 50 overall players, you are likely to have viable starting players for each position. This year, I wouldn;t even look at the QB or TE positions from the bottom end. Too much depth at both, IMO, to grab one when you face a huge drop at both WR and RB while waiting 24 picks between rounds 4 and 5.

I have no objection to a WR-RB then RB-RB start to a draft - that is a viable strategy and well thought out - as long as you are confident in being able to grab enough sleeper WRs the rest of the way to fill your WR2 (and/or WR3) spots. Especially if that WR1 turns out to be such a stud that you have a major advantage over almost every other team, waiting on your WR2/3 and drafting a pool of talent could work out very nicely.

You drop 24 players between each selection from the ends. So, IMO, you need to maximize value at the important starting positions while also hedging against a player not working out. If I take two RBs (or WRs) at the 3/4 turn, I have maximized my chances of at least one of them living up to his draft spot and filling in as my RB2 (or WR2).

That's why, if you look at the mock drafts and ADP numbers, it seems pretty easy to fill your QB position from the 12-hole if you wait until the 7/8 turn and take two - even as low as the QB13, you can snag two of Jake Plummer, Kurt Warner, Drew Brees, and Aaron Brooks - any two of whom, IMO, would be perfectly fine as your choices each week for QB1. The QB 11 and 12 are Bledsoe and Trent Green, so grabbing a QB early does not seem to make sense to me.

 

[Marc Levin]

oh - another note - from the ends seems like a great place to do some "team RB" drafting.

Grabbing both Deuce and Bush at the 3/4 turn (even if you reach for one) or grabbing both TJones and Ced Benson - look at the teams that are likely to feature a RB, and will have a solid starting RB if one takes over the workhorse.

beware of possible "Miami '05" situations (such as Tennessee or Carolina) where there may be, every week, two RBs looking at 12-15 carries and an equal number of targets - the worry there is that you never know which of your handcuffed Rbs to start each week. A team like NO, Indie, and Chicago generally work their starter and throw in the other guy for a decent number of carries, but not enough to erase the value of the starter.

SSOG posted some excellent information on that subject about how Anderson and Bell were used last year - look at the Bell v. Dayne thread (another great thread). Anderson was a solid start almost every week he was the starter and even though Bell had his moments, they were sporadic and the fantasy owner with Anderson had a viable RB2 every single week.

Just something to think about.

 

[The Jerk]

There are at least six reasonable ways to play drafting at the 12-13 turn, assuming a start 2 RB, 3 WR league. I have listed them in the order of most conservative to least conservative below:

1. RB-RB, WR-RB Offers the best opportunity to have a strong running game

2. RB-WR, RB-RB Should get a top 10-12 RB, top 3 WR and a good shot at a decent RB2

3. RB-RB, WR-WR Potentially two top 12 RB and two top 12 WR

4. RB-WR, RB-WR The most balanced approach, should have four quality starters

5. RB-WR, WR-WR Rolling the dice on finding a serviceable RB2 later

6. WR-WR, RB-WR WR overload, going against the grain, but tough uphill battle on RBs

I would try to use approach #3 or #4 in most leagues, but a lot depends on the talent available, the league in which I am competing, and the flow of the draft.

In one of my leagues, only half of the teams have shark owners while another half are unpredictable and/or less competitive on average. In this league, I will consider becoming more conservative as I expect to be among the leaders as long as I don't make multiple mistakes. So maybe I choose approach #2 or even #1.

In another league, competition is extremely close every year, so I just may be more aggressive, going against the grain, trying to give myself an edge. So perhaps #5 would enter consideration although probably not #6. If I use this approach, then come rounds 5-6 I'll be looking to snag a pair of players like Addai/Rhodes or TENN or JAX or SF. I know I'll be likely taking a hit at RB2, but if my RB committee works out, I'll be hard to beat considering my strength at WR. Even if RB2 flops, perhaps my WR strength will cancel out my RB weakness.

Looking at #5 a little bit deeper, 35 picks will have occurred before team 12 gets their 3rd rounder. If each other teams has drafted 2 RBs, and at least Manning and Gates are gone, then at most 10 WRs will have been drafted. So theoretically, team 12 could have a top 10-12 RB (drafted at the first turn) along with a top 3 WR plus two more top 12 WR.

If you choose #4, then you end up with a top 10-12 RB and a top 3 WR from the first turn, then likely RB 24 or so along with a top 12 WR. Your next WR probably fits anywhere between WR 20 and WR 25. So would you rather have:

#4: RB 10, RB 24, WR 3, WR 11, WR 24

or

#5: RB 10, RB 30, WR3, WR11, WR12

Considering that the “RB30” could be a team or relay RB with the potential to hit the top 20 as the situation resolves, I am tempted to go with approach #5. Risky, yes. But there's a chance to be dominant if the RB2 works out sometime during the year.

 

[Marc Levin]

agree agree agree.

 

[Shoeless Joe]

I only advocated 2 RBs and 2 WRs in the first four rounds b/c I believe you can't afford to fall behind at those two spots - at least not with your RB1 and WR1. when you have 2 RBs and 2 WRs from the first 50 overall players, you are likely to have viable starting players for each position. This year, I wouldn;t even look at the QB or TE positions from the bottom end. Too much depth at both, IMO, to grab one when you face a huge drop at both WR and RB while waiting 24 picks between rounds 4 and 5.I have no objection to a WR-RB then RB-RB start to a draft - that is a viable strategy and well thought out - as long as you are confident in being able to grab enough sleeper WRs the rest of the way to fill your WR2 (and/or WR3) spots. Especially if that WR1 turns out to be such a stud that you have a major advantage over almost every other team, waiting on your WR2/3 and drafting a pool of talent could work out very nicely.You drop 24 players between each selection from the ends. So, IMO, you need to maximize value at the important starting positions while also hedging against a player not working out. If I take two RBs (or WRs) at the 3/4 turn, I have maximized my chances of at least one of them living up to his draft spot and filling in as my RB2 (or WR2).That's why, if you look at the mock drafts and ADP numbers, it seems pretty easy to fill your QB position from the 12-hole if you wait until the 7/8 turn and take two - even as low as the QB13, you can snag two of Jake Plummer, Kurt Warner, Drew Brees, and Aaron Brooks - any two of whom, IMO, would be perfectly fine as your choices each week for QB1. The QB 11 and 12 are Bledsoe and Trent Green, so grabbing a QB early does not seem to make sense to me.

Thanks for shedding some more light on this and critiquing the RB-WR, RB-RB strategy from the 12th slot. Looks like I'll be running some mock drafts on the DD to test these scenarios, along with those posted by The Jerk, to see how things work out.The next thing I think I need to assess is which RBs likely available at 1.12 have the highest floors and the lowest risk of becoming this year's version of KJ, JJ, or Willis McGahee.Shoeless Joe

 

[LHUCKS]

Ive got 12. All the guys in my league swear by the 2 rb's early strategy. So, in no order, I can see the first 11 picks: LT, LJ, Alexander, Portis, Tiki, Rudi, Caddy, R. Brown, S. Jax, Edge and Jordan. So that leaves me at 12, with the top rb's left as Westbrook, Davis, McGahee, etc. I just cant see any of these guys as first round pick. What should I do? In our league, qb's get 6 for a td, so do I take Manning and a elite wr, and pray some late round rb's pan out? Manning and best rb left? Take 2 elite wr's, we have to start 3? Ive tried trading up, no one is interested. Whats your thoughts? 

I'd go Manning/McGahee if passing TDs are 6.

 

[rascal]

Let's talk about the RB-RB-WR-WR and beyond strategy.

I've been in several mock drafts and in round 5 things get ugly.

Not once have the RBBC tandums (Addai-Rhodes, Benson-Jones, Foster-Williams, Dillon-Maroney) been completely available.

As an example in one mock draft the following RB's are available:

Rhodes

Taylor

Gore

Martin

Green

Brown

Dayne/M Bell

White

MBIII

Anderson

While the following WR's are available:

Branch

Kennison

Galloway

Smith

Glenn

Evans

M Jones

COles

Muhammad

etc

The top 4 QB's have been taken and the top 3 TE's have been taken.

Assume standard FBG scoring. 12 team laegue that starts 1 QB, 2 WR, 2 RB, TE, RB/WR, K, D.

So which direction should one go in this situation? Go WR heavy (galloway and Branch), go RB heavy (snag Rhodes and Fred Taylor), go TE and QB, or what?

Here is how one scenario panned out:

1 R Johnson (RB)

2 W McGahee (RB)

3 H Ward (WR)

4 D Driver (WR)

5 F Taylor (RB)

6 F Gore (RB)

7 J Plummer (QB)

8 A Brooks (QB)

9 K Barlow (RB)

10 G Jones (RB)

11 J Stevens (TE)

12 D Clark (TE)

13 A Toomer (WR)

14 S Parker (WR)

15 C Bradford (WR)

16 D Gabriel (WR)

17 Kicker

18 Defense

Granted outside of the top 2 WR's they are horrible, but the RB depth is good. Probably should have taken C Perry though in the ninth or tenth round over K Barlow. Thoughts?

 

[PsychoMan]

if all the WRs are left, get fitzgerald and steve smith

then later get a guy like matt hasselbeck and domanick davis

stud-WR is much more difficult to work from the 12 hole than, say, the 9 hole The problem is waiting SO long at RB, that you almost HAVE TO then take four RBs with your next 6 picks in order to maximize you ability to hit on a couple of them.

I'm thinking going WR/WR might not actually be so bad in this position. If you draft last in the first round and take a RB, you're theoretically going to get a worse RB than all 11 of your opponents. Why not nab stud WRs and be head and shoulders above your opponents in that department?Let's say you grab some combination of TO, Steve Smith, Chad Johnson, Fitz, (or Manning if you just need to grab him here - say in a 6pt passing TD league). What RBs have the mocks shown to be available for rounds 3-6 for pick #12?

If the options look good enough, I think this could work ...

 

[JimmyD]

Based off of my 12 league and its drafting style I could see a team like this: QB/TE/DEF/K 2RB/WR league

Stud RB

1/2. Caddy or Rudi or Brown/Westbrook

3/4. Burress/Roy Williams (maybe Driver or maybe Chambers slides)

5/6. Gore/T.Jones - the 2 Highest ranked RB left - Dayne/Brown/Williams/T.Jones whoever you like out of them.

7/8. Winslow/Coles

9/10. Brooks or Favre / Barlow (if Gore) or another QB.

Starting

Favre

Caddy

Westbrook (with the SF RB as backup)

Burress

Williams

Winslow

Or you go the Stud QB

1/2 - Manning/Westbrook

3/4 - Foster/Dunn

5/6 - D. Williams/Branch

7/8 - Winslow/Coles

9/10 - Bennett/A. Bryant

Starting

Manning

Westbrook

Dunn (with the Car RB as backups)

Branch

Coles

Winslow

Get a stud WR

1/2 - Holt/Westbrook

3/4 - Burress/Foster

5/6 - D.Williams/Gore

7/8 - Winslow/Coles

9/10 - Barlow/Favre or Brooks

Starting

Favre

Westbrook

Car RB (with SF backups)

Holt

Burress

Winslow

I like all three. Feel the best about 1st one, but the stud wr has a lot of depth at RB.

 

[icehouse]

How would your theories change if you were in a PPR league (WR and TE's only) where you only had to start one RB? You could start another RB out of the flex spot, but only 1 is required.

 

[SCT]

I'll add another dimension to the discussion: I draft 12th in a 2 keeper league that starts 2rb, 2wr, 1 flex (see sig for rest). I have been succesful for years with the theory that I always want my flex to be a rb whenever at all possible. I'm keeping SA and SJax....I have no 2nd round pick (equiv. of a 4th round pick) or 5th round pick (7th), but I have 2 3rd (5th) rounders. My plan right now is to take the best available RB so that I have 3 solid rbs to build around week to week...I'm hoping for Lewis but most likely will settle for Dillon or maybe Foster or Taylor. The problem is since I don't have that back to back pick there, I'll have to hope for the handcuff to Dillon or Foster to still be around when I have the 1st pick of the 3rd (5th). I'm thinking I need to avoid the tandem backfield situations (IND, NE, CAR, CHI ) because of this. Would it be smarter to take a WR with my 1st pick (12th in the 1st round (3rd))? I'm also toying with idea of Gates with my 1st pick if I don't go with RB.

So....

1.12 best RB available (gives me 3 solid starting rbs)

3.1 WR

3.12 WR

4.1 TE

6.1 QB

7.12 LB

8.1 LB

9.12 backups or Vinateri if he's still there.

 

[SCT]

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Anyone have thoughts on this exact same subject (12 teams, picking last), but with lineups being 1RB, 3WR, 1 RB/WR Flex?

Makes it a little easier to think WR/WR, but still seems to run into real trouble as often as not in the mocks. And there really isn't any WR that stands out -- all of them have a reason you could make them #6 as easily as #1.

 

[Assani Fisher]

There are so many great RBs late,

 

[FGITLOTR]

does one seriously consider taking Bush with the first pick of the second round if they are in the 12 hole--after taking a guy like Caddy or Westbrook with the last pick in the 1st round?

 

[joey]

does one seriously consider taking Bush with the first pick of the second round if they are in the 12 hole--after taking a guy like Caddy or Westbrook with the last pick in the 1st round?

Funny. I'm starting to consider this exact thing...I expect to have to pick from McGahee, Westbrook, DDavis, the Joneses, Chester.Are any of those guys really that much better than Bush this year?I'm considering one of two options:A) Bush/McGahee - which gives me Bush and a starting RB with no committee or injury issuesin the pros. Then go WR/WR at 3/4 turn with 2 of Wayne,Ward,RWilliams,DDriver,SMossB) Bush/Holt - which gives me Bush and the safest stud WR (imo). Then go either RB/RB(if a couple of RBs I like drop to me) and wait until 5/6 to grab my 2nd WR. Or go RB/WRat 3/4 turn (is there really much of a difference between grabbing McGahee at 1/2 orDroughns/Dillon/Dunn at 3/4?)Any thoughts?

 

[Chaz]

I'd feel much more confident about going RB-WR if I was fairly certain that any of Droughns, Parker, KJ, CTaylor would be falling to me at the end of the 3rd.

 

[FGITLOTR]

I can't see myself spending the 12th or 13th pick on either Droughns, McGahee, Parker, or Kevin Jones. In my estimation, Bush has more upside as compared to those guys. I'm picking 12th in a PPR league and I'm praying a guy like Westbrook falls to the end of the first (high risk/high reward).

As far as RB/WR in the 1st/2nd round, I would have to say that I would be hesitant to follow this strategy. If you did draft Holt or CJ with the first pick in the second, your #2 RB is going to be pretty desperate--this coupled with the fact that your #1 RB is probably not a sure thing. I concur with Marc's assessment--you have to go RB/RB to protect yourself in case your #1 RB doesn't pan out.

I see a plethora of WR's this year who could easily outperform their ADP and wind up being real bargains.

Just for kicks, in a PPR league, how do you rank these guys if they are available at 1:12 and 2:01:

Westbrook (probably dreaming)

McGahee

Droughns

KJ

Taylor

Parker

 

[Chaz]

I can't see myself spending the 12th or 13th pick on either Droughns, McGahee, Parker, or Kevin Jones. In my estimation, Bush has more upside as compared to those guys. I'm picking 12th in a PPR league and I'm praying a guy like Westbrook falls to the end of the first (high risk/high reward).As far as RB/WR in the 1st/2nd round, I would have to say that I would be hesitant to follow this strategy. If you did draft Holt or CJ with the first pick in the second, your #2 RB is going to be pretty desperate--this coupled with the fact that your #1 RB is probably not a sure thing. I concur with Marc's assessment--you have to go RB/RB to protect yourself in case your #1 RB doesn't pan out. I see a plethora of WR's this year who could easily outperform their ADP and wind up being real bargains. Just for kicks, in a PPR league, how do you rank these guys if they are available at 1:12 and 2:01:Westbrook (probably dreaming)McGaheeDroughnsKJTaylor ParkerI'd put McGahee right around KJ and leave the rest as is.Given the recent news about Westbrook being a little banged up, you may just get him after all.

 

[Bartguy]

As far as RB/WR in the 1st/2nd round, I would have to say that I would be hesitant to follow this strategy. If you did draft Holt or CJ with the first pick in the second, your #2 RB is going to be pretty desperate--this coupled with the fact that your #1 RB is probably not a sure thing. I concur with Marc's assessment--you have to go RB/RB to protect yourself in case your #1 RB doesn't pan out. I see a plethora of WR's this year who could easily outperform their ADP and wind up being real bargains. Just for kicks, in a PPR league, how do you rank these guys if they are available at 1:12 and 2:01:Westbrook (probably dreaming)McGaheeDroughnsKJTaylor Parker

I'm not in a PPR league (only TEs get a pt/rec in mine) but I disagree that your RB2 is going to be pretty desperate if you wait until 3. I've done a lot of 12 team mocks and I can almost always get Chester Taylor or Warrick Dunn at the 3/4 turn. In my book, neither has many more question marks than the guys you'd be picking with your 2nd round pick. Westbrook has a foot problem, McGahee has a terrible offense, etc.So I think it is totally reasonable to pass on one of those guys for a reliable top WR like Torry Holt and snag Dunn as your 2.Do you feel like Caddy/McGahee Driver/DJax will smoke Caddy/Dunn Holt (or S. Smith)/Driver?

 

[walkwithme]

Don't be suprised if someone grabs Peyton at the 10th or 11th spot. It seems to happen every year someone will not believe Peyton is still there and they will pick up a RB in the second round. One of your earlier RB's projected may just fall to you.

 

[Frank Black]

Last Sunday, I picked from the 12 spot in one of LHUCK's Omega leagues. Picking 12th made me nervous. I didn't know whether to go RB-RB or RB-WR. By now, we knoe the dilemnas. I went RB-RB because I was too afraid of not having good WR choices for #RB. I'll share the 1st few rounds with you, for whatever it's worth. This is to show who was still available. High performance scoring with 1PPR to non-WR and .5PPR to WRs. Sorry can't edit out team names and pick times.

3.12 I originally planned to go WR-WR, but 3.12 showed that Foster and DeAngelo Williams, as well as the Indy backfield were available. This surprised me, because in many drafts, a part of those tandems is already gone by 3.12.

Many on this thread have predicted that Dillon, C. Taylor, Droughns and Dunn will still be there at 3.12. Dunn was the only one of these gone, and somehow the Duckett trade may cause Dunn to be gone by 3.12 in upcoming drafts. As many have predicted, the Chicago backfield was there.

Many have predicted Wayne would be available at 3.12, but he was gone. At 3.12, I grabbed R. Williams, who I had mixed feelings about. Driver and Mason were still there, and I had targeted Driver. But Foster was too tempting. The point is that at 3.12, the tier in #2 WRs may start to drop off noticably. In this draft, you could have had too really good WRs by drafting WR-WR in rounds 3 and 4. If you only have 1 WR going into round 5, things get more difficult.

I'm sorry I don't have any great insights. Many of the earlier posts are right. The thing is that the RB ?? start to mount if you pick your #2 RB at 3.12 or 4.1.

I could have had a really good pair of RB and WRs if I had drafted Driver, but look at what RBs are left for your 3rd RB if you wait until 5.12. Also, in most drafts the Indy backfield will be gone by then.

Conclusion, in most scoring leagues where RBs and WRs are relatively on par with each other, I think that RB-RB is the way to go, by a slight margin.

1.01 Who Wants to Sex Mutombo? Johnson, Larry KCC RB 2:00:23 p.m.

1.02 Andy Reid's Wet Dream Alexander, Shaun SEA RB 2:00:23 p.m.

1.03 Brutananadilewskis Tomlinson, Ladainian SDC RB 2:00:23 p.m.

1.04 Adirondacks Jackson, Steven STL RB 2:00:23 p.m.

1.05 Salute Your Renegade Barber, Tiki NYG RB 2:00:23 p.m.

1.06 Fly Eagles Fly Johnson, Chad CIN WR 2:01:02 p.m.

1.07 Vegas Vipers Jordan, Lamont OAK RB 2:01:59 p.m.

1.08 Grunts Brown, Ronnie MIA RB 2:02:11 p.m.

1.09 bowtoyourleader James, Edgerrin ARI RB 2:02:25 p.m.

1.10 Humboldt High Portis, Clinton WAS RB 2:02:25 p.m.

1.11 FF_WMD Manning, Peyton IND QB 2:03:03 p.m.

1.12 The Sopranos (formerly known as Generic Team Name) Williams, Carnell TBB RB 2:04:22 p.m.

2.01 The Sopranos (formerly known as Generic Team Name) Johnson, Rudi CIN RB 2:04:40 p.m.

2.02 FF_WMD Smith, Steve CAR WR 2:05:13 p.m.

2.03 Humboldt High Harrison, Marvin IND WR 2:07:44 p.m.

2.04 bowtoyourleader Owens, Terrell DAL WR 2:07:51 p.m.

2.05 Grunts Fitzgerald, Larry ARI WR 2:08:12 p.m.

2.06 Vegas Vipers McGahee, Willis BUF RB 2:10:16 p.m.

2.07 Fly Eagles Fly Holt, Torry STL WR 2:11:35 p.m.

2.08 Salute Your Renegade Jones, Julius DAL RB 2:13:31 p.m.

2.09 Adirondacks Moss, Randy OAK WR 2:13:42 p.m.

2.10 Brutananadilewskis Westbrook, Brian PHI RB 2:14:37 p.m.

2.11 Andy Reid's Wet Dream Bush, Reggie NOS RB 2:14:56 p.m.

2.12 Who Wants to Sex Mutombo? Gates, Antonio SDC TE 2:16:34 p.m.

3.01 Who Wants to Sex Mutombo? Boldin, Anquan ARI WR 2:17:08 p.m.

3.02 Andy Reid's Wet Dream Chambers, Chris MIA WR 2:17:57 p.m.

3.03 Brutananadilewskis Ward, Hines PIT WR 2:20:34 p.m.

3.04 Adirondacks Jones, Kevin DET RB 2:20:40 p.m.

3.05 Salute Your Renegade Burress, Plaxico NYG WR 2:21:09 p.m.

3.06 Fly Eagles Fly Lewis, Jamal BAL RB 2:22:48 p.m.

3.07 Vegas Vipers Wayne, Reggie IND WR 2:24:19 p.m.

3.08 Grunts Dunn, Warrick ATL RB 2:24:30 p.m.

3.09 bowtoyourleader Moss, Santana WAS WR 2:25:05 p.m.

3.10 Humboldt High Jackson, Darrell SEA WR 2:25:35 p.m.

3.11 FF_WMD Parker, Willie PIT RB 2:26:57 p.m.

3.12 The Sopranos (formerly known as Generic Team Name) Williams, Roy DET WR 2:29:10 p.m.

4.01 The Sopranos (formerly known as Generic Team Name) Foster, De'shaun CAR RB 2:32:07 p.m.

4.02 FF_WMD Dillon, Corey NEP RB 2:32:35 p.m.

4.03 Humboldt High Jones, Thomas CHI RB 2:33:39 p.m.

4.04 bowtoyourleader Bell, Tatum DEN RB 2:34:26 p.m.

4.05 Grunts Heap, Todd BAL TE 2:34:36 p.m.

4.06 Vegas Vipers Driver, Donald GBP WR 2:35:36 p.m.

4.07 Fly Eagles Fly Droughns, Reuben CLE RB 2:38:16 p.m.

4.08 Salute Your Renegade Mason, Derrick BAL WR 2:38:31 p.m.

4.09 Adirondacks Taylor, Chester MIN RB 2:38:41 p.m.

4.10 Brutananadilewskis Horn, Joe NOS WR 2:40:37 p.m.

4.11 Andy Reid's Wet Dream Johnson, Andre HOU WR 2:43:15 p.m.

4.12 Who Wants to Sex Mutombo? Walker, Javon DEN WR 2:45:42 p.m.

5.01 Who Wants to Sex Mutombo? Houshmandzadeh, T.J. CIN WR 2:46:46 p.m.

5.02 Andy Reid's Wet Dream Shockey, Jeremy NYG TE 2:49:35 p.m.

5.03 Brutananadilewskis Evans, Lee BUF WR 2:52:21 p.m.

5.04 Adirondacks Branch, Deion NEP WR 2:53:02 p.m.

5.05 Salute Your Renegade Gore, Frank SFO RB 2:53:58 p.m.

5.06 Fly Eagles Fly Galloway, Joey TBB WR 2:56:31 p.m.

5.07 Vegas Vipers Smith, Rod DEN WR 2:57:39 p.m.

5.08 Grunts Hasselbeck, Matt SEA QB 2:58:07 p.m.

5.09 bowtoyourleader Gonzalez, Tony KCC TE 2:59:33 p.m.

5.10 Humboldt High Davis, Domanick HOU RB 3:00:21 p.m.

5.11 FF_WMD Bell, Mike DEN RB 3:01:16 p.m.

5.12 The Sopranos (formerly known as Generic Team Name) Kennison, Eddie KCC WR 3:03:39 p.m.

6.01 The Sopranos (formerly known as Generic Team Name) Muhammad, Muhsin CHI WR 3:05:19 p.m.

6.02 FF_WMD Maroney, Laurence NEP RB 3:05:27 p.m.

6.03 Humboldt High Glenn, Terry DAL WR 3:06:27 p.m.

6.04 bowtoyourleader Manning, Eli NYG QB 3:06:38 p.m.

6.05 Grunts Johnson, Keyshawn CAR WR 3:07:31 p.m.

6.06 Vegas Vipers Addai, Joseph IND RB 3:08:53 p.m.

6.07 Fly Eagles Fly Bryant, Antonio SFO WR 3:11:35 p.m.

6.08 Salute Your Renegade Brady, Tom NEP QB 3:13:27 p.m.

6.09 Adirondacks Coles, Laveranues NYJ WR 3:14:11 p.m.

6.10 Brutananadilewskis McNabb, Donovan PHI QB 3:16:53 p.m.

6.11 Andy Reid's Wet Dream Palmer, Carson CIN QB 3:18:01 p.m.

6.12 Who Wants to Sex Mutombo? Brown, Chris TEN RB 3:18:39 p.m.

7.01 Who Wants to Sex Mutombo? Rhodes, Dominic IND RB 3:18:50 p.m.

7.02 Andy Reid's Wet Dream Jones, Matt JAC WR 3:19:31 p.m.

7.03 Brutananadilewskis Taylor, Fred JAC RB 3:21:59 p.m.

7.04 Adirondacks Brown, Reggie PHI WR 3:23:02 p.m.

7.05 Salute Your Renegade Moulds, Eric HOU WR 3:24:37 p.m.

7.06 Fly Eagles Fly McAllister, Deuce NOS RB 3:25:52 p.m.

7.07 Vegas Vipers Green, Ahman GBP RB 3:28:00 p.m.

7.08 Grunts Williams, DeAngelo CAR RB 3:28:38 p.m.

7.09 bowtoyourleader Bears, Chicago CHI Def 3:29:54 p.m.

7.10 Humboldt High Givens, David TEN WR 3:31:24 p.m.

7.11 FF_WMD Crumpler, Alge ATL TE 3:31:48 p.m.

7.12 The Sopranos (formerly known as Generic Team Name) Bulger, Marc STL QB 3:32:41 p.m.

8.01 The Sopranos (formerly known as Generic Team Name) Bruce, Isaac STL WR 3:33:25 p.m.

8.02 FF_WMD Burleson, Nate SEA WR 3:34:09 p.m.

8.03 Humboldt High Witten, Jason DAL TE 3:35:40 p.m.

8.04 bowtoyourleader Bennett, Drew TEN WR 3:36:45 p.m.

8.05 Grunts Delhomme, Jake CAR QB 3:37:32 p.m.

8.06 Vegas Vipers Bledsoe, Drew DAL QB 3:38:29 p.m.

8.07 Fly Eagles Fly Watson, Ben NEP TE 3:40:15 p.m.

8.08 Salute Your Renegade Cooley, Chris WAS TE 3:40:36 p.m.

8.09 Adirondacks Steelers, Pittsburgh PIT Def 3:42:08 p.m.

8.10 Brutananadilewskis Jones, Greg JAC RB 3:42:51 p.m.

8.11 Andy Reid's Wet Dream Benson, Cedric CHI RB 3:43:52 p.m.

8.12 Who Wants to Sex Mutombo? Culpepper, Daunte MIA QB

 

[Chaz]

I am currently considering moving away from the RB thinking and building my team around WRs. At the turn, I could go CJ-Fitz (both of whom I see as relatively safe selections). From there, I would even consider a 3rd, if a guy like Wayne/Roy Williams was available at the 3/4.

Of course, I would have to take at least one RB at that point. Hopefully Droughns/Foster/C. Taylor falls.

Then, at the 5/6, I would likely have to take two RBs. Maybe Gore/Barlow/C. Brown, something like that.

Am I totally out of the realm of being competitive by looking to dominate at WR? Think I would be targeting the right two WRs early?

(Like most FBGs, I will be taking a QB and TE a little later)

 

[stevegamer]

I just drafted a 12 teamer on Sunday, and I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. It is a PPR league with 2 RB & WR/1 Flex (WR/RB/TE) & 1 of QB/PK/TE as starters.

After mocking with people, I decided that I was sure there would a good number of players I wanted at the 3-4 turn, but I couldn't always tell if they were going to be WR's or RB's. I examined RB-RB starts, WR-WR starts, WR-RB starts, and starts with either RB or WR & Manning (in case he fell).

I found that for some reason my going WR-WR on the turn caused more WR's to be left on the 3-4 turn, which was unexpected. And I did not want to go that route & end up short on RB's. RB-RB worked out okay, as did either combo with Manning.

In my draft Manning didn't fall, but Westbrook did, and I snagged him (it's a PPR) to go with Holt. Followed that up with RB-WR at 3-4 turn, and then a RB combo in 5-6 (I picked CAR over DEN, had my choice). At that point I started hitting the WR's, since TE was being picked clean. A couple guys took a 2nd TE early to flex.

I highly recommend going RB-WR as was mentioned above, as it is the most flexible approach, and you will be most able to react to what happens in between your picks.

 

[Chaz]

Why take Holt over anyone else? Seen as safer? I was thinking that Fitz is a safe choice with some nice upside.

 

[stevegamer]

Why take Holt over anyone else? Seen as safer? I was thinking that Fitz is a safe choice with some nice upside.

I thought Holt, Harrison, & Fitz were equally safe, but there was a chance that someone wanted to make a deal with me to move picks around in rounds 3-6, which would've netted me a early-mid round 3 pick, which could've become Boldin or Wayne. With that still out there as a possibility I took the guy whom had no teammate I was considering if I got that pick. Possibly a weird tiebreak between players, but what else can you do? I hate having a ton of guys on bye at once, and I don't like extra risk from crappy backup QB play if someone gets hurt.

 

[Hairy Snowman]

Has anyone worked out the Manning strategy?

Im thinking if manning is there I need to go QB-RB-RB-WR-RB-WR-RB-RB or QB-RB-RB-RB-WR-WR-RB-RB.

we start 1 QB, # RBs, 4 WR, 1 K, 1 Defense 12 team high performance distance scoring league.

im hating this pick. Leaning toward RB-RB-RB-WR, but that puts me so far behind the #1 pick who does the same strategy. Manning gives me some distance on the @2 QB, but I will hurt for depth at RB. GRR.

 

[Brunswick]

Has anyone worked out the Manning strategy?Im thinking if manning is there I need to go QB-RB-RB-WR-RB-WR-RB-RB or QB-RB-RB-RB-WR-WR-RB-RB.we start 1 QB, # RBs, 4 WR, 1 K, 1 Defense 12 team high performance distance scoring league.im hating this pick. Leaning toward RB-RB-RB-WR, but that puts me so far behind the #1 pick who does the same strategy. Manning gives me some distance on the @2 QB, but I will hurt for depth at RB. GRR.

Did one last night start 1qb, 1rb 3wr 1 te and 1 flex. First 10 picks rb (all the usual suspects) then Manning. Took Portis and Parker at the 1-2 turn (could not pull the trigger on Bush here he went at 3.04,Houshmanzadah and Burress at 3-4, Culpepper and Kennison at 5-6, LJ Smith and Williamson at 7-8 and then C Brown and L White at 9-10. Of course today the news is T Henry will be the starter.I figure if you go with the safe picks in the 12 slot you will be buried with the best possibility being middle of the pack. I'm not totally happy but it will be interesting at least boom or bust.

 

[Hugonel]

I drafted August 26th. #12 position, 12 man league, 12 rounds. I declined trade offers from others as this is the best spot to guarantee two good RBs.

Start: QB/RB/RB/WR/WR/WR/K/D. 1 pt 20 yards rush/rec. 6 pt TD rush/rec. 1 pt 50 yards pass. 5 pts passing TD.

After much analysis I went RB/RB WR/WR RB/QB WR/WR. That broke my anticipated strategy of taking RB/WR at the 5/6 turn but only because I'd committed to taking Culpepper at 5/6 if he was there. And, he was. By the way, most guys in my league know what they are doing. Very RB heavy league though, with 17 RB going in the top 2 rounds for 3 years running. That may affect your strategy. Here's what I ended up with:

Cadillac Williams 1:12

Willie Parker 2:1 (took over McGahee b/c I had no reports of the severity of McGahee's shoulder and b/c Parker will see the goal line)

Driver 3:12 (I expected he'd be there and was right)

S. Moss 4:1 (ditto, though I'd hoped for Roy Williams)

Fred Taylor 5:12 (28 RBs were already gone. It was him, Thomas Jones or Domick Rhodes, I went with the guy I knew would play b/c my top two RB have the same bye)

Culpepper 6:1 (I wanted an 8th round QB [Leftwich to be precise] but felt Cpep was a rare candidate to substantially exceed all projections)

Coles 7:12 A steal here, plenty of WR sleepers left.

Michael Clayton 8:1 High risk/high reward

9:12 N. Racker

10:1 V. Morency (took him b/c he had the most name recognition between him and Lundy)

11:12 Baltimore defense

12:1 Wali Lundy (on the bandwagon folks! One of the only draft write ins; I really need to dump on Houston RB if I can due to the very small rosters)

I like my team, but we usually do until it sucks, right?

Good luck.

 

[stevegamer]

I mocked the Manning strategy extensively. I tried it with RB & with WR.

If you think you can get a guy who you are comfy with as a #1 WR @ 3.12, go PM-RB. Othrwise, go PM-WR, and load up at RB the next 6 rounds (4 RB minimum)

I'd try mocks to figure out what's happening. There was a guy I liked who fell to me at 3.12 whom I would've been okay with as a #1 WR. I didn't get Maning, in my draft, though.

 

[Hairy Snowman]

Mock drafts have been brutal no matter what. 3 RBs start, 12 teams. But Distance scoring, so those 30 yard strikes by peyton are 12 points as opposed to 6.

Draft is tonight. Now im leaning toward RB-RB- WR-WR

 

[Chaz]

I spoke with a leaguemate last night to get a sense of how the 1st round will play out. Looks like everyone is going with the stud RB strategy (I suppose my loading up on them early and often every year and winning the championship has influenced them).

I think it is going to be difficult to compete if I go RB-RB and the top picks also get their 2nd and 3rd RBs to go with the big three.

My question now is whether or not to build around Manning, assuming he is available. If he is, then I would likely pair him with a top WR (or RB if someone falls)

Or, I could leave Manning out there and go WR-WR.

Or, If Manning is not there, then a good RB will be and I could go RB-WR.

ALL TDs are 6 points, making the case for Manning a little stronger. Still, Waiting on QBs has yielded guys like McNabb, Bulger, Hass, falling quite a bit. Even Plummer could make up for skipping QB if he can be had at 7/8.

 

[tommy300]

Hated picking from the 12 hole today in one of my drafts. Redraft start QB, RB, 2WR, Flex RB/WR, TE, K, Def. Standard scoring, bonus for distance of the TD. This was the first time I've ever started out a draft WR/WR, especially difficult because it is not a PPR league. When it got to me at pick 12, there were 10 RB's gone plus Manning at #11.

1.12 - Holt, as consistant as it gets, #1 on my board for this season.

2.1 - C.Johnson, almost picked Moss but decided to go what I thought was a slightly safer pick.

At the 3.12/4.1 turn, I needed at least 1 RB, probably 2. Wayne was the last of the big WR's to go at 3.7, gave me a chance to move up (that person had RB/RB already). With teams 9-11 needing RB, I had to jump at it, got a good deal, switch 3/4 rounds, my 15th for his 18th.

3.8 - R.Bush, very close with Dunn but was hoping for a HR.

4.5 - D.Foster, not totally happy with the pick, but him Gore and J.Jones were the only RB options.

From this point on with 2 RB, 2 WR, take the best value at every turn, hopfully get one more solid RB.

5.12 - T.Heap, deal VDB 38

6.1 - A.Green, here's my 3rd RB. Lots of potential here

7.12 - E.Kennison, solid 3rd WR possible starter in a pinch if I need to go 1RB 3WR, just missed Bulger.

8.1 - T.Bell, just kept falling....

After 8, I've got 4 RB's, 3 WR's, and a TE. Need QB soon.

9.12 - Farve

10.1 - A.Brooks, decent QB combo for this season. Glad I got them both at this turn.

11.12 - Indy Def, def and kickers actually score a decent amount of points in this league.

12.1 - J.Elam, Usually look for a solid kicker that can kick 40's and 50's (extra points)

Note these picks actually helped start a K and Def run, allowing some players to fall.

13.12 - Mia, this league, 2 good defenses are a plus

14.1 - E.Wilford, good 4th, should have went earlier

16.1 - A.Smith (TE), not much left

17.12 - O.Mare - 1 week starter, will drop after Elam's bye

18.1 - J.Harrison, swing for the fences

18.5 - T.Taylor, solid WR5 especially at this stage.

Overall, I think the 9-12 spots are a huge disadvantage this season. If you have a top 3 pick and you know what you are doing, you're $$ this season. For example, a guy in my division with pick 2 starts out with LJ, Moss, Chambers, hard to make up those points with your 12/13 and 36/37 picks....

QB - Farve, Brooks

RB - R.Bush, D.Foster, A.Green, T.Bell, J.Harrison

WR - Holt, C.Johnson, Kennison, Wilford, Taylor

TE - Heap, A.Smith

K - Elam, Mare

Def - Indy, Mia

Not thrilled about my team, but it's better than some. So much for the WR/WR experiment. Not a rate my team thread, just showing some results from the 12 hole, and going WR/WR.

 

[joey]

Drafted this past Monday night and went with the RB/WR strategy at 1/2.

Thankfully, the guy at the 10 slot grabbed Manning at 10, allowing one

of the top 11 RBs to drop to me (my next big drop off at RB was at rb11

like most folks). I grabbed Lamont Jordan and Chad Johnson at the 1/2.

I again went RB/WR at 3/4, fully expecting to go RB/RB at 5/6. I'm one

of those suckers who thinks there's value in the DeShaun/DeAngelo handcuff.

I especially like the CAR RBs as my #2 RB considering what else was available

to me at RB at the 3/4 turn (JLewis/the Bell Boys/C Taylor/F Gore). So I went

DeShaun/S Moss at 3/4 and then I went DeAngelo/T Jones at 5/6.

btw, 4pt pass TD, 6 pts all other TDs, plus yardage, start 1QB/2RB/3WR/1K/DST.

I was estatic when Lamont fell to me at the 12 spot when Manning went

at 10 and the Raider-hate at 11 picked Caddy. In 90% of the mocks I did,

I ended up with McGahee/#1WR at the 1/2 turn.

I have the 12 slot again in a draft this Tuesday but it's a totally different story

since it's a keep-3 league. LJ, Holt, Gates and I plan to go either RB/RB or RB/WR

with my first 2 non-keeper picks. I thought originally I'd go RB/RB to solidify my backfield

but now that the keepers have been announced, only 8 WRs were kept so I don't think

I can resist going RB/WR when I can probably grab a Driver/RWilliams/S Moss as my #3

receiver (non-TE mandatory so Gates is just another WR in this league. Still a top 25 receiver

in my eyes this year).

Probably bored most to sleep but just wanted to follow up on the 12 slot for me this year...