Pierre Thomas in the final year of his 2007 rookie contract (1 Viewer)

[Hoss_Cartwright]

Pierre Thomas - Show him the Money!!

By David Gladow

December 23, 2008, 9:30AM

As many of you know, or may not know, in 2009 Pierre Thomas will be entering the final year of the rookie contract he signed in 2007 as an undrafted rookie free agent out of Illinois. Since joining the team, Thomas has gone from "training camp body" to the primary back in the Saints' offense.

The way it looks now, it appears that the Saints are willing to ride into 2009 with Thomas as their primary back. However, with increased production and playing time, can the Saints, and Thomas, expect for him to be playing under the terms of his rookie contract. I'm unaware of the contract terms, but no undrafted rookie free agent's contract ever broke the bank, and I'm sure it came with a miniscule signing bonus. It's safe to say that Thomas is the Saints biggest bargain in terms of "bang for the buck"

So that's my question to all of you: if you're the Saints do you make Thomas an off-season priority and lock him up to a long term deal so that he won't test the free agent market in 2010? Or are you willing to risk losing him if he plays out the final year of his rookie contract in 2009 and then is able to test the market?

You also need to look at it from Thomas' point of view. Do you approach the Saints after this season and pose the idea of a new contract? Or do you let your production in 2009 dictate the market for your services going into 2010? Is there a possibility of a holdout?

Since Thomas has been the "primary" back, going back to the KC game, the Saints, as a team, are averaging over 120 rushing yards per game, and nearly 4.5 yards per carry. Thomas has been a huge part of that. The Saints are 4-2 with him getting the majority of the workload. In fact, if you take the Saints rushing attack since that KC game and assume that they could mirror those same results for an entire season it would put them in the top 10 in the NFL in rushing yards per game and yards per carry. Thomas would be wise to play that hand should negotiations start at the end of this season.

In 2006, when Deuce was the primary ball carrier he was getting around 16 carries Per game with Reggie sprinkled in. Thomas has shown he is capable of getting those carries, with an occasional 20-25 carry game, going forward. He is good out of the backfield as a receiver and very seldom takes losses on the ground, settling for a 2 or 3 yard gain as opposed to trying to turn nothing into something.

So, what does everyone think..Is it time for the Saints to SHOW THOMAS THE MONEY!?!?!

 

[zed2283]

I guess that explains Mike Bell.

 

[Breesisdaman]

He will get a pay raise. Non capped year next season so I expect it. Mickey Loomis is going to lock this team up for a long long time.

 

[editor47]

i hope they let him go. they're cocky enough to think they can put anyone in there at RB and have shown that, in fact, they can.

so let him go somewhere he can be the focus. at least 15 carries and a few targets a game. detroit maybe?

 

[ATC1]

Don't think Saints will over pay for his services. A pay raise? Sure. But, I honestly don't see him having as much success anywhere else.

End of the 2nd round - Saints select Toby Gerhart. Unless his value sky rockets. Bush and Gerhart...

 

[Breesisdaman]

i hope they let him go. they're cocky enough to think they can put anyone in there at RB and have shown that, in fact, they can. so let him go somewhere he can be the focus. at least 15 carries and a few targets a game. detroit maybe?

I think you have them confused with Denver. PT is going nowhere.

 

[Tigerbot Hesh]

Even if they let Thomas play through the end of his rookie deal this year, he'll still be just a restricted free agent, right? He'll only have three years of experience.

 

[coolnerd]

Yeah, there is some hole in the collective bargainng agreement which gives a third year UDFA more leverage than if he were drafted. Both Antonio gates and Ryan Grant used this in getting their contracts, I don't know if the uncapped rules change the player's ability to hold the leverage on the team.

 

[thriftyrocker]

Even if they let Thomas play through the end of his rookie deal this year, he'll still be just a restricted free agent, right? He'll only have three years of experience.

Yes. He'll be a Saint next year. But I do think NO is the new Denver. They could probably start Lynell Hamilton and do ok, and they know this.

 

[az_prof]

I think he will be back but I doubt they give him a five year 30 million dollar type deal. As long as Bush is there can you really justify spending that much more money on the RB position when the league shows that there is an abundance of backs? I don't think they will break the bank to keep THomas and he is good but I don't think I would break the bank to keep him. He hasn't proven that he can endure the beating of being a featured back and the league is littered with talented backs who can't stay in the lineup because they get hurt.

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

i hope they let him go. they're cocky enough to think they can put anyone in there at RB and have shown that, in fact, they can. so let him go somewhere he can be the focus. at least 15 carries and a few targets a game. detroit maybe?

I think you have them confused with Denver. PT is going nowhere.

Yep, most homers like to say that about their players. Don't be so sure.

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

I think he will be back but I doubt they give him a five year 30 million dollar type deal. As long as Bush is there can you really justify spending that much more money on the RB position when the league shows that there is an abundance of backs? I don't think they will break the bank to keep THomas and he is good but I don't think I would break the bank to keep him. He hasn't proven that he can endure the beating of being a featured back and the league is littered with talented backs who can't stay in the lineup because they get hurt.

Well, if they don't pay him he will bail. Why wouldn't he?

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

Even if they let Thomas play through the end of his rookie deal this year, he'll still be just a restricted free agent, right? He'll only have three years of experience.

Yes. He'll be a Saint next year. But I do think NO is the new Denver. They could probably start Lynell Hamilton and do ok, and they know this.

Why is that?

 

[Judge Smails]

i hope they let him go. they're cocky enough to think they can put anyone in there at RB and have shown that, in fact, they can. so let him go somewhere he can be the focus. at least 15 carries and a few targets a game. detroit maybe?

I think you have them confused with Denver. PT is going nowhere.

Surely Payton can find another stud RB to give 11 carries a game to like Thomas. No problem.

 

[Da Guru]

i hope they let him go. they're cocky enough to think they can put anyone in there at RB and have shown that, in fact, they can. so let him go somewhere he can be the focus. at least 15 carries and a few targets a game. detroit maybe?

I think you have them confused with Denver. PT is going nowhere.

Surely Payton can find another stud RB to give 11 carries a game to like Thomas. No problem.

Thomas and Bell were both undrafted RBS, the Saint offense is RB friendly. I am sure they would love to keep Thomas but they won`t break the bank to do so.

 

[Steed]

Yeah, there is some hole in the collective bargainng agreement which gives a third year UDFA more leverage than if he were drafted. Both Antonio gates and Ryan Grant used this in getting their contracts, I don't know if the uncapped rules change the player's ability to hold the leverage on the team.

This is an interesting point, but I'm pretty sure the Saints went through the same thing with Lance Moore and slapped him with the RFA tag of a 2nd rounder. That was just enough to make him attractive to other teams and I'm sure given the way their offense has run w/o him, the Saints wuold have loved to have gotten that 2nd rounder. I'd say everything that held true for Lance, will hold true for Pierre.

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

Even if they let Thomas play through the end of his rookie deal this year, he'll still be just a restricted free agent, right? He'll only have three years of experience.

Yes. He'll be a Saint next year. But I do think NO is the new Denver. They could probably start Lynell Hamilton and do ok, and they know this.

Why is that?

Because they can keep him for peanuts with the RFA tag. And if its an open cap next year he still wont be a free agent.

Coolnerd said that doesn't apply to UDFA like Thomas, and Ryan Grant before him? Is this not true? What did Grant and Gates do that Thomas can't?

 

[coolnerd]

Even if they let Thomas play through the end of his rookie deal this year, he'll still be just a restricted free agent, right? He'll only have three years of experience.

Yes. He'll be a Saint next year. But I do think NO is the new Denver. They could probably start Lynell Hamilton and do ok, and they know this.

Why is that?

Because they can keep him for peanuts with the RFA tag. And if its an open cap next year he still wont be a free agent.

Coolnerd said that doesn't apply to UDFA like Thomas, and Ryan Grant before him? Is this not true? What did Grant and Gates do that Thomas can't?

wikipedia for contract info (just being lazy)Ryan Grant got $$$ as an ERFA.

At the end of the 2007 season, Grant became an exclusive rights free agent, meaning the Packers have exclusive rights to sign him, but if they choose not to, he will be eligible to sign with any team.[34]

June 1, in the Green Bay Press Gazette, it was announced that Grant is scheduled to get offered a contract to stay with the Packers.[35] On August 4, 2008, it was announced that Grant signed a 4-year deal that could be worth up to $30 million.[36]

Antonio gates also an ERFA-Exclusive right Free Agnet

On August 23, 2005, after holding out for a contract extension, Gates inked a six-year deal worth up to $24 million with the San Diego Chargers. Because of his holdout, Gates was suspended one game the home opener against the Dallas Cowboys. Gates went on to have another stellar season, catching 89 passes for 1,101 yards and 10 touchdowns, but the Chargers missed the playoffs by a slim margin.

In both case they broke out during the 2nd season and signed the contract before their 3rd season not after. Looks like thomas is going to be under the control of the Saints as he is finishing his 3rd season.

 

[WFR]

I wonder how this affects PT's future in NO?

Yahoo's Jason Cole reports that the Saints do not plan on bringing back Reggie Bush in 2010.

Bush's 2010 salary is $8 million -- an exorbitant amount for a change-of-pace back/special teamer. Citing a "Saints insider," Cole reports that GM Mickey Loomis doesn't want to pay Bush's salary even if 2010 is an uncapped season. Battling chronic knee problems, Bush has missed the Saints' last two games. He's averaged just 9.3 touches in his nine 2009 appearances.

Source: Yahoo Sports

 

[travdogg]

I wonder how this affects PT's future in NO?

Yahoo's Jason Cole reports that the Saints do not plan on bringing back Reggie Bush in 2010.

Bush's 2010 salary is $8 million -- an exorbitant amount for a change-of-pace back/special teamer. Citing a "Saints insider," Cole reports that GM Mickey Loomis doesn't want to pay Bush's salary even if 2010 is an uncapped season. Battling chronic knee problems, Bush has missed the Saints' last two games. He's averaged just 9.3 touches in his nine 2009 appearances.

Source: Yahoo Sports

It can't hurt Thomas' value. Really at this point Thomas is a better player in the passing game than Bush anyway, so it makes a ton of sense for the Saints.I think the Saints could probably go into 2010 with Thomas, Bell, Hamilton and maybe a 3rd-7th round pick. I certainly don't think they'll take a guy in the 1st 2 rounds if they dump Bush, especially since they've had a lot of success getting guys late.

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

I wonder how this affects PT's future in NO?

Yahoo's Jason Cole reports that the Saints do not plan on bringing back Reggie Bush in 2010.

Bush's 2010 salary is $8 million -- an exorbitant amount for a change-of-pace back/special teamer. Citing a "Saints insider," Cole reports that GM Mickey Loomis doesn't want to pay Bush's salary even if 2010 is an uncapped season. Battling chronic knee problems, Bush has missed the Saints' last two games. He's averaged just 9.3 touches in his nine 2009 appearances.

Source: Yahoo Sports

It can't hurt Thomas' value. Really at this point Thomas is a better player in the passing game than Bush anyway, so it makes a ton of sense for the Saints.I think the Saints could probably go into 2010 with Thomas, Bell, Hamilton and maybe a 3rd-7th round pick. I certainly don't think they'll take a guy in the 1st 2 rounds if they dump Bush, especially since they've had a lot of success getting guys late.

Totally agree. I don't think PT or Bell are awesome talents, but Bell runs hard. He brings it to the LBs every time I've seen him. PT may have more explosiveness, but I see why Bell gets carries. PT may not be on the same level as the elite backs in the league, but with that passing game and a solid offensive line, he's plenty explosive to hurt defenses. No guarantees that anybody in this next draft would be any better. I'm sure the Saints would love to add some young talent on the defensive side of the ball in the upcoming draft. RB does not look like any sort of need to me.

 

[KellysHeroes]

It depends if another team will pay be him more than the Saints. If NO goes on a playoff Run and PT grids out some games in late Jan... his value will go up. Isn't Colston's Contract up to?

 

[saintfool]

I'm sure the Saints would love to add some young talent on the defensive side of the ball in the upcoming draft. RB does not look like any sort of need to me.

the only have need at OLB. they have plenty of quality depth at the other positions. shanle and fujita are sound, if unremarkable players at OLB. they have a terrific d-line. they have a good defensive backfield. nice mix of youth and experience too.i see them trading away a lot of picks for future consideration.

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

Taken from part of a Rotoworld article -

According to Yahoo's Jason Cole, the Saints do not plan to bring back Reggie Bush in 2010. Relegated to a minor role on an undefeated team, Bush has now missed multiple weeks due to lingering knee issues in each of the past three seasons. Citing a "Saints insider," Cole reports that GM Mickey Loomis doesn't want to pay Bush's exorbitant $8 million salary even if 2010 looms as an uncapped season.

Frankly, if play-calling mastermind Sean Payton can't turn Bush into a star in a high-flying offense taking advantage of the fast-track at the Superdome, it's hard envision the former No. 2 overall pick as a success story in another locale. Pierre Thomas has proven to be far superior not only on the ground but also in the passing game, which is supposed to be Bush's specialty. Even if a handful of general managers would salivate at Bush's alleged playmaking skills, his injury proclivities and ineffectiveness as a sideline-to-sideline runner give cause for pause.

Speaking of Thomas, the Saints' feature back is in the final year of his rookie contract, making him a potential restricted free agent if a new CBA can be reached. Despite the persistent presence of Mike Bell, Thomas is clearly Payton's backfield MVP. In line for a significant pay raise, along with No. 1 receiver Marques Colston, expect the Saints to lock up both nucleus players this offseason.

While fantasy owners deal with the frustration of the recent 50-50 backfield split, it's worth pointing out the difference in usage between Thomas and Bell. Similar to the Titans' situation last year, Thomas is used primarily in the Chris Johnson "Get the Lead" role while Bell holds down the LenDale White "Keep the Lead" role. Thomas obviously can't sniff Johnson's talent level, but he's currently second to Johnson in yards per carry and has come as close as any back to Johnson's absurd percentage of plays over 10 and 20 yards. As we've seen in Tennessee, the "Get the Lead" back holds a lot more long-term value than the "Keep the Lead" back. Dynasty leaguers should expect Thomas to remain a valuable commodity in New Orleans going forward.

 

[Native]

Thomas is also a pretty good pass protector.

 

[Da Guru]

Taken from part of a Rotoworld article -

According to Yahoo's Jason Cole, the Saints do not plan to bring back Reggie Bush in 2010. Relegated to a minor role on an undefeated team, Bush has now missed multiple weeks due to lingering knee issues in each of the past three seasons. Citing a "Saints insider," Cole reports that GM Mickey Loomis doesn't want to pay Bush's exorbitant $8 million salary even if 2010 looms as an uncapped season.

Frankly, if play-calling mastermind Sean Payton can't turn Bush into a star in a high-flying offense taking advantage of the fast-track at the Superdome, it's hard envision the former No. 2 overall pick as a success story in another locale. Pierre Thomas has proven to be far superior not only on the ground but also in the passing game, which is supposed to be Bush's specialty. Even if a handful of general managers would salivate at Bush's alleged playmaking skills, his injury proclivities and ineffectiveness as a sideline-to-sideline runner give cause for pause.

Speaking of Thomas, the Saints' feature back is in the final year of his rookie contract, making him a potential restricted free agent if a new CBA can be reached. Despite the persistent presence of Mike Bell, Thomas is clearly Payton's backfield MVP. In line for a significant pay raise, along with No. 1 receiver Marques Colston, expect the Saints to lock up both nucleus players this offseason.

While fantasy owners deal with the frustration of the recent 50-50 backfield split, it's worth pointing out the difference in usage between Thomas and Bell. Similar to the Titans' situation last year, Thomas is used primarily in the Chris Johnson "Get the Lead" role while Bell holds down the LenDale White "Keep the Lead" role. Thomas obviously can't sniff Johnson's talent level, but he's currently second to Johnson in yards per carry and has come as close as any back to Johnson's absurd percentage of plays over 10 and 20 yards. As we've seen in Tennessee, the "Get the Lead" back holds a lot more long-term value than the "Keep the Lead" back. Dynasty leaguers should expect Thomas to remain a valuable commodity in New Orleans going forward.

Good move, Bush is brittle and really can`t be counted on even as a thrid down RB.

 

[guderian]

It depends if another team will pay be him more than the Saints. If NO goes on a playoff Run and PT grids out some games in late Jan... his value will go up. Isn't Colston's Contract up to?

Colston extended his contract last year. He's signed through 2011.