Pirates firesale really getting started up (1 Viewer)

[Drunken Cowboy]

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When they traded McClouth, I wanted them to trace everybody. I may get my wish.

 

[Please See Mine]

Wasn't part of the rationale for the McClouth trade that they were stacked in the OF, which included Morgan?

 

[MAC_32]

Wasn't part of the rationale for the McClouth trade that they were stacked in the OF, which included Morgan?

McCutchen's a better version of Morgan, they're right to try to move him.

 

[KenM746003]

The Nationals and Pirates make a trade. Absolutely pointless. The Nationals have too many OF's already.

 

[Steelers4Life]

Wasn't part of the rationale for the McClouth trade that they were stacked in the OF, which included Morgan?

McCutchen's a better version of Morgan, they're right to try to move him.

Actually, Milledge is a younger version of Morgan with a far higher cieling. Much more power, much more potential.Being a headcase is overrated... gimme the more talented player, especially in an organziation like the Pirates that sorely needs it. If/when Milledge grows up, this trade is going to look fantastic. If not, they didn't give up much to take the chance.

 

[dparker713]

Wasn't part of the rationale for the McClouth trade that they were stacked in the OF, which included Morgan?

McCutchen's a better version of Morgan, they're right to try to move him.

Actually, Milledge is a younger version of Morgan with a far higher cieling. Much more power, much more potential.Being a headcase is overrated... gimme the more talented player, especially in an organziation like the Pirates that sorely needs it. If/when Milledge grows up, this trade is going to look fantastic. If not, they didn't give up much to take the chance.

Think both these deals are fairly decent. Hinske was rotting on the bench and mostly worthless, sure they got players that are probably worthless, but they also saved half a million. Morgan has a ceiling of Juan Pierre at best (and not the version from the past two months). Burnett is what he is, a quality reliever with a chance at being a closer *maybe*. Meanwhile they got a guy with high upside in Milledge that has shown fair talent in the majors just last year, and in Hanrahan a guy that has closed effectively in the past and has better stuff than Burnett. Basically, they traded to guys that should have a job for two headcases with talent. But at this point in their development, that seems like a wise move to make.

 

[CrossEyed]

Wasn't part of the rationale for the McClouth trade that they were stacked in the OF, which included Morgan?

McCutchen's a better version of Morgan, they're right to try to move him.

Actually, Milledge is a younger version of Morgan with a far higher cieling. Much more power, much more potential.Being a headcase is overrated... gimme the more talented player, especially in an organziation like the Pirates that sorely needs it. If/when Milledge grows up, this trade is going to look fantastic. If not, they didn't give up much to take the chance.

You mean like Ian Snell?

 

[CrossEyed]

So who else will be gone in the next few weeks? LaRoche? Wilson? Sanchez? Doumit?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

So who else will be gone in the next few weeks? LaRoche? Wilson? Sanchez? Doumit?

hopefully. none of those players are guys to build or re-build a team around. Pittsburghers tend to overvalue guys who have produced anything at all period because of how bad things have been. I'd trade Sanchez next and put Young at 2B immediately. LaRoche can probably wait until he performs better so they can get SOMEthing for him. God he is awful. I'd hold onto Wilson though unless a SS comes back in one of the trades. Doumit . . . i'm not sure what to do about him. His injury may have bought him more time in Pittsburgh.

 

[Steelers4Life]

Wasn't part of the rationale for the McClouth trade that they were stacked in the OF, which included Morgan?

McCutchen's a better version of Morgan, they're right to try to move him.

Actually, Milledge is a younger version of Morgan with a far higher cieling. Much more power, much more potential.Being a headcase is overrated... gimme the more talented player, especially in an organziation like the Pirates that sorely needs it. If/when Milledge grows up, this trade is going to look fantastic. If not, they didn't give up much to take the chance.

You mean like Ian Snell?

Snell deserved a chance, and he got one. At some point, he stopped trusting his stuff and pitching inside, but I still believe the guy has a future being an effective major league pitcher. If it's not in Pittsburgh, it'll be somewhere else.Milledge is 24 years old. As a 23 year old, he but up a line around .260-.330-.400 over around 500 at bats in a pitcher's park. 14 homers and 28 stolen bases, which is significantly more power and only slightly less speed than Morgan. And he had slugged about .450 as a 22 year old in almost 200 at bats. He's a former 1st round pick who was a top 20 prospect by Baseball America a couple years ago.

Morgan is 29 years old already and just now breaking into the majors. We don't even know if he can hold up over a full season and he's not likely to get any better than he already is.

Talent-wise, it's a steal. Milledge is going to be fun to watch... here's hoping that the outfield is Milledge, McCutchen, and Tabata within 3 years.

 

[Spartans Rule]

LaRoche can probably wait until he performs better so they can get SOMEthing for him. God he is awful.

How is LaRoche awful? He leads the Pirates in pretty much every offensive category, and his .850 OPS is in the top half among NL 1B.Any team that needs a 1B and/or a good left-handed bat would love to have him.

 

[Copeman]

I'd like to see them put Doumit in at RF when he comes back. He has played there and has a rifle for an arm, and he liked playing there. There, he won't get injured as much and they have 2 decent (serviceable) catchers on the roster now.

 

[Spartans Rule]

Milledge is 24 years old. As a 23 year old, he but up a line around .260-.330-.400 over around 500 at bats in a pitcher's park. 14 homers and 28 stolen bases, which is significantly more power and only slightly less speed than Morgan. And he had slugged about .450 as a 22 year old in almost 200 at bats. He's a former 1st round pick who was a top 20 prospect by Baseball America a couple years ago.Morgan is 29 years old already and just now breaking into the majors. We don't even know if he can hold up over a full season and he's not likely to get any better than he already is. Talent-wise, it's a steal. Milledge is going to be fun to watch... here's hoping that the outfield is Milledge, McCutchen, and Tabata within 3 years.

When Morgan was 24 he was a mediocre Class A player. A lot of people are disappointed in Milledge because they thought this would be his breakout year, but he's still way ahead of the curve compared to Morgan.

 

[Steelers4Life]

So who else will be gone in the next few weeks? LaRoche? Wilson? Sanchez? Doumit?

If they can get a solid return for any or all of them, I hope so. The outfield depth is probably set for a while with McCutchen, Milledge, Young, Moss, and Pearce with Hernandez and Tabata on the way in AA. Having Laroche and Alvarez gives a couple decent options at 3B, but they could use depth and talent everywhere else.I'd like to see them move Laroche and give Pearce a chance to play first base regularly instead of wasting his time in AAA or on the bench in the outfield.Wilson is so overrated around here it's crazy just because the Pirates have no internal options to replace him at all. He's a poor hitter with a good glove, and he always plays hard, but he's at best a role player and defensive replacement on a decent team. If they can move him, great, but don't expect a whole lot because a good team won't value him as much as Pirates fans do.I don't think the Pirates view Young as a second baseman, so I don't know what they'd do at 2B if they dealt Sanchez, too. Of all of these guys, he's the one I'd want to keep the most for now. He's a .310+ hitter and a doubles machine and a perfect #2 hitter if they can fill in a good lineup around him. Like anyone else, he could be available if the move made sense.I wouldn't move Doumit right now unless it's a package with at least a really good prospect in it. His injury hurts his value and he probably won't have enough time to get it back before the deadline.Throw in Grabow and Snell, maybe even Gorzelanny. They've got a lot of pieces that other teams will be interested in, so it could be an eventful July.

 

[Balco]

Wasn't part of the rationale for the McClouth trade that they were stacked in the OF, which included Morgan?

McCutchen's a better version of Morgan, they're right to try to move him.

Actually, Milledge is a younger version of Morgan with a far higher cieling. Much more power, much more potential.Being a headcase is overrated... gimme the more talented player, especially in an organziation like the Pirates that sorely needs it. If/when Milledge grows up, this trade is going to look fantastic. If not, they didn't give up much to take the chance.

You mean like Ian Snell?

Snell deserved a chance, and he got one. At some point, he stopped trusting his stuff and pitching inside, but I still believe the guy has a future being an effective major league pitcher. If it's not in Pittsburgh, it'll be somewhere else.Milledge is 24 years old. As a 23 year old, he but up a line around .260-.330-.400 over around 500 at bats in a pitcher's park. 14 homers and 28 stolen bases, which is significantly more power and only slightly less speed than Morgan. And he had slugged about .450 as a 22 year old in almost 200 at bats. He's a former 1st round pick who was a top 20 prospect by Baseball America a couple years ago.

Morgan is 29 years old already and just now breaking into the majors. We don't even know if he can hold up over a full season and he's not likely to get any better than he already is.

Talent-wise, it's a steal. Milledge is going to be fun to watch... here's hoping that the outfield is Milledge, McCutchen, and Tabata within 3 years.

Lastings Milledge is horrible defensively. Doesn't take coaching well, and did not show any improvement at the plate. Still, I don't have a huge problem with the trade. Morgan is vastly overrated. The trade that made zero sense, however, remains the McLouth trade.

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

Wasn't part of the rationale for the McClouth trade that they were stacked in the OF, which included Morgan?

McCutchen's a better version of Morgan, they're right to try to move him.

Actually, Milledge is a younger version of Morgan with a far higher cieling. Much more power, much more potential.Being a headcase is overrated... gimme the more talented player, especially in an organziation like the Pirates that sorely needs it. If/when Milledge grows up, this trade is going to look fantastic. If not, they didn't give up much to take the chance.

Think both these deals are fairly decent. Hinske was rotting on the bench and mostly worthless, sure they got players that are probably worthless, but they also saved half a million. Morgan has a ceiling of Juan Pierre at best (and not the version from the past two months). Burnett is what he is, a quality reliever with a chance at being a closer *maybe*. Meanwhile they got a guy with high upside in Milledge that has shown fair talent in the majors just last year, and in Hanrahan a guy that has closed effectively in the past and has better stuff than Burnett. Basically, they traded to guys that should have a job for two headcases with talent. But at this point in their development, that seems like a wise move to make.

They sent cash to the yanks, so are probably paying most of Hinske's salary.

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

So who else will be gone in the next few weeks? LaRoche? Wilson? Sanchez? Doumit?

All of them plus Duke, Maholm, Grabow, and Capps.

 

[Steelers4Life]

Lastings Milledge is horrible defensively. Doesn't take coaching well, and did not show any improvement at the plate. Still, I don't have a huge problem with the trade. Morgan is vastly overrated. The trade that made zero sense, however, remains the McLouth trade.

I liked the McLouth trade, as did a lot of people who analyze prospects and stuff like this for a living. But that's a different thread...Milledge played CF in Washington and was a little below average. The Bucs won't need him to play CF, so we'll see what he can do in left. It's a spacious LF in PNC Park, but his speed will play well out there and playing alongside McCutchen will help to hide any shortcomings he might have. And he's still more than young enough to improve.The more I think about it, the more I like this deal. It's the second young outfielder acquired in the past year (Tabata being the other) who has a chance to end up with significantly more value than where they are now. Tabata isn't showing power in AA this year - the hammy injury might have something to do with it - but he has more walks than strikeouts in AA. Before last year, Cashman wouldn't have traded him straight up for Nady.They won't win every trade, but I like what this group is doing.

 

[Balco]

Lastings Milledge is horrible defensively. Doesn't take coaching well, and did not show any improvement at the plate. Still, I don't have a huge problem with the trade. Morgan is vastly overrated. The trade that made zero sense, however, remains the McLouth trade.

I liked the McLouth trade, as did a lot of people who analyze prospects and stuff like this for a living. But that's a different thread...Milledge played CF in Washington and was a little below average. The Bucs won't need him to play CF, so we'll see what he can do in left. It's a spacious LF in PNC Park, but his speed will play well out there and playing alongside McCutchen will help to hide any shortcomings he might have. And he's still more than young enough to improve.The more I think about it, the more I like this deal. It's the second young outfielder acquired in the past year (Tabata being the other) who has a chance to end up with significantly more value than where they are now. Tabata isn't showing power in AA this year - the hammy injury might have something to do with it - but he has more walks than strikeouts in AA. Before last year, Cashman wouldn't have traded him straight up for Nady.They won't win every trade, but I like what this group is doing.

I think McCutcheon, and McLouth were the keepers. And Milledge would likely keep the seat warm for Tabata. Milledge needs to show he can take coaching better (heard this was a big problem with Washington) and he should be an average hitter/sub par fielder with speed. Tabata is the guy I am interested in. it seems as if he has learned his lessons and is starting to become a hitter (still young, so power should come eventually). Like I said, Morgan was vastly overrated. I don't think Milledge is ever going to be anything more than a # 4 OF (although he could be a solid fantasy player). But Millege definitely projects as a better hitter (not that that is saying much) The reason I like the gamble by the Pirates is that Morgan is 29, and Millege has all the tools to be a great power speed guy. he just needs to listen to his coaches. Likely? No. But the risk is well worth it.Hanrahan just doesn't have the control to be a reliable reliever.

 

[dparker713]

Wasn't part of the rationale for the McClouth trade that they were stacked in the OF, which included Morgan?

McCutchen's a better version of Morgan, they're right to try to move him.

Actually, Milledge is a younger version of Morgan with a far higher cieling. Much more power, much more potential.Being a headcase is overrated... gimme the more talented player, especially in an organziation like the Pirates that sorely needs it. If/when Milledge grows up, this trade is going to look fantastic. If not, they didn't give up much to take the chance.

Think both these deals are fairly decent. Hinske was rotting on the bench and mostly worthless, sure they got players that are probably worthless, but they also saved half a million. Morgan has a ceiling of Juan Pierre at best (and not the version from the past two months). Burnett is what he is, a quality reliever with a chance at being a closer *maybe*. Meanwhile they got a guy with high upside in Milledge that has shown fair talent in the majors just last year, and in Hanrahan a guy that has closed effectively in the past and has better stuff than Burnett. Basically, they traded to guys that should have a job for two headcases with talent. But at this point in their development, that seems like a wise move to make.

They sent cash to the yanks, so are probably paying most of Hinske's salary.

He was still due about 800k, the Pirates sent 400k with him, so they saved 400k.

 

[Steelers4Life]

Lastings Milledge is horrible defensively. Doesn't take coaching well, and did not show any improvement at the plate.

Still, I don't have a huge problem with the trade. Morgan is vastly overrated. The trade that made zero sense, however, remains the McLouth trade.

I liked the McLouth trade, as did a lot of people who analyze prospects and stuff like this for a living. But that's a different thread...Milledge played CF in Washington and was a little below average. The Bucs won't need him to play CF, so we'll see what he can do in left. It's a spacious LF in PNC Park, but his speed will play well out there and playing alongside McCutchen will help to hide any shortcomings he might have. And he's still more than young enough to improve.

The more I think about it, the more I like this deal. It's the second young outfielder acquired in the past year (Tabata being the other) who has a chance to end up with significantly more value than where they are now. Tabata isn't showing power in AA this year - the hammy injury might have something to do with it - but he has more walks than strikeouts in AA. Before last year, Cashman wouldn't have traded him straight up for Nady.

They won't win every trade, but I like what this group is doing.

I think McCutcheon, and McLouth were the keepers. And Milledge would likely keep the seat warm for Tabata. Milledge needs to show he can take coaching better (heard this was a big problem with Washington) and he should be an average hitter/sub par fielder with speed. Tabata is the guy I am interested in. it seems as if he has learned his lessons and is starting to become a hitter (still young, so power should come eventually).

Like I said, Morgan was vastly overrated. I don't think Milledge is ever going to be anything more than a # 4 OF (although he could be a solid fantasy player). But Millege definitely projects as a better hitter (not that that is saying much) The reason I like the gamble by the Pirates is that Morgan is 29, and Millege has all the tools to be a great power speed guy. he just needs to listen to his coaches. Likely? No. But the risk is well worth it.

Hanrahan just doesn't have the control to be a reliable reliever.

IYou severely underrate what Milledge has a chance to be. He may never pan out the way he could, but the season he had at age 23 is just the tip of the iceberg with him. To put it into perspective, Baseball America rated Milledge the NINTH overall prospect in 2006. Billingsley and Verlander were 7 and 8. Cain and Fielder were 10 and 11. Whether he fulfills it or not, he's got all-star talent. How close he comes to that will depend on how he matures and develops over the next couple years, but if things work out, he'll be the regular left fielder with McCutchen in center and Tabata where he belongs in right.

Not sure where Hernandez fits into the picture, but he was just a far more advanced (for his age) Morgan clone with a more dynamic bat and truly awesome defense. Too much talent in the outfield is never a bad thing, and if either Morton OR Locke become even average major league pitchers, the McLouth deal was a good deal.

 

[shut it down]

The Morgan-Milledge Dealby Dave Cameron - June 30, 2009 · Filed under Daily GraphingsOver the last few years, one of the easier running jokes in baseball was to suggest that any available outfielder would interest the Washington Nationals. Jim Bowden couldn’t hide his love of toolsy, athletic underperformers, so every kid who had ever been ranked on Baseball America’s Top 100 and became available gravitated towards the nations capital. So, it would be easy to continue to chuckle right along with the old joke, as today, Washington traded for another outfielder, completing the rumored Lastings Milledge for Nyjer Morgan swap by agreeing to exchange Joel Hanrahan for Sean Burnett as well.However, this move is different. Morgan doesn’t follow the previous pattern - he can actually play baseball, especially defense. Washington’s outfield has combined for a -24.5 UZR this year, easily the worst in baseball (the next lowest is the Blue Jays at -19.2). The combination of Elijah Dukes, Adam Dunn, Josh Willingham, Austin Kearns, and Willie Harris have been disastrous in the field, which is a pretty significant problem when you’re trying to develop a young pitching staff.Morgan is far form a defensive liability. He has 743 innings between LF/RF and a career UZR of +15.4, along with 391 innings in center field and a UZR of +11.9. Those numbers are off-the-charts awesome. If Nyjer Morgan was really a +35 UZR/150 center fielder, he’d be in the conversation for the best defensive outfielder of all time.Now, he’s almost certainly not that good. There’s a lot of noise in small sample UZR numbers, and we only have about one full season’s worth of data on Morgan as an outfielder. Odds are Morgan is just a good defensive CF, not the best that anyone has ever seen. If we were to project his defensive value going forward using a regression, we’d likely end up expecting him to be something like a +10 to +20 center fielder, which puts him in the category of guys like Carlos Gomez, Franklin Gutierrez, Mike Cameron, Rajai Davis, and Darin Erstad.Given what we know about Morgan’s skillset and his status as one of the fastest players in the game, this shouldn’t be that surprising. He has the physical skills to be a terrific defensive player, after all, so when the metrics and the scouting reports agree, there can be increased confidence in the result.Of course, guys that are this good at defense usually aren’t much offensively. Morgan follows the pattern of a slap-hitting groundball guy who tries to get on base via a horde of singles to compensate for his lack of power. Unlike Gomez and Erstad, though, Morgan has shown some adeptness at making this work for him - his career line in the majors is .286/.351/.376, which translates to a barely below average .322 wOBA.That’s the high end of what the Nationals should expect going forward, however - it is based on a career .346 batting average on balls in play, and while fast guys do better than average at getting on via contact, .346 is still tough to sustain. If his BABIP falls down to .320 or so, about what ZIPS projects for him going forward, than he’s more of a .310 wOBA guy.A .310 wOBA and +10 defense in center field is still a pretty nifty player, though. Over a full season, that would make him a +2 to +2.5 win player, or right around league average. Considering that his lack of service time means he’ll be making the minimum the next couple of years, the Nationals are getting a pretty significant value in this particular outfielder. The upside isn’t super high, but he’s instantly one of the better players on that team, and will make them better both in 2009 and going forward.For the Pirates, they get to try to figure out how to extract some value from Lastings Milledge, who would have to take several steps forward before he was as good as Morgan is now. Can’t say I’m a fan of this move for Pittsburgh, but that’s getting to be a theme lately. The Pirates have made a series of head-scratching moves of late, and this one just continues that trend. Hanrahan is a nice buy low candidate, and a better bet for the future than Burnett, but relievers just aren’t that hard to acquire. The Pirates get worse now for some hope of getting better in the future, but that hope is tied to a belief in Lastings Milledge’s improvement that I don’t have.Good trade for Mike Rizzo and the Nationals. For once, they finally acquired an outfielder with some usefulness.

 

[Steelers4Life]

The Morgan-Milledge Dealby Dave Cameron - June 30, 2009 · Filed under Daily GraphingsOver the last few years, one of the easier running jokes in baseball was to suggest that any available outfielder would interest the Washington Nationals. Jim Bowden couldn’t hide his love of toolsy, athletic underperformers, so every kid who had ever been ranked on Baseball America’s Top 100 and became available gravitated towards the nations capital. So, it would be easy to continue to chuckle right along with the old joke, as today, Washington traded for another outfielder, completing the rumored Lastings Milledge for Nyjer Morgan swap by agreeing to exchange Joel Hanrahan for Sean Burnett as well.However, this move is different. Morgan doesn’t follow the previous pattern - he can actually play baseball, especially defense. Washington’s outfield has combined for a -24.5 UZR this year, easily the worst in baseball (the next lowest is the Blue Jays at -19.2). The combination of Elijah Dukes, Adam Dunn, Josh Willingham, Austin Kearns, and Willie Harris have been disastrous in the field, which is a pretty significant problem when you’re trying to develop a young pitching staff.Morgan is far form a defensive liability. He has 743 innings between LF/RF and a career UZR of +15.4, along with 391 innings in center field and a UZR of +11.9. Those numbers are off-the-charts awesome. If Nyjer Morgan was really a +35 UZR/150 center fielder, he’d be in the conversation for the best defensive outfielder of all time.Now, he’s almost certainly not that good. There’s a lot of noise in small sample UZR numbers, and we only have about one full season’s worth of data on Morgan as an outfielder. Odds are Morgan is just a good defensive CF, not the best that anyone has ever seen. If we were to project his defensive value going forward using a regression, we’d likely end up expecting him to be something like a +10 to +20 center fielder, which puts him in the category of guys like Carlos Gomez, Franklin Gutierrez, Mike Cameron, Rajai Davis, and Darin Erstad.Given what we know about Morgan’s skillset and his status as one of the fastest players in the game, this shouldn’t be that surprising. He has the physical skills to be a terrific defensive player, after all, so when the metrics and the scouting reports agree, there can be increased confidence in the result.Of course, guys that are this good at defense usually aren’t much offensively. Morgan follows the pattern of a slap-hitting groundball guy who tries to get on base via a horde of singles to compensate for his lack of power. Unlike Gomez and Erstad, though, Morgan has shown some adeptness at making this work for him - his career line in the majors is .286/.351/.376, which translates to a barely below average .322 wOBA.That’s the high end of what the Nationals should expect going forward, however - it is based on a career .346 batting average on balls in play, and while fast guys do better than average at getting on via contact, .346 is still tough to sustain. If his BABIP falls down to .320 or so, about what ZIPS projects for him going forward, than he’s more of a .310 wOBA guy.A .310 wOBA and +10 defense in center field is still a pretty nifty player, though. Over a full season, that would make him a +2 to +2.5 win player, or right around league average. Considering that his lack of service time means he’ll be making the minimum the next couple of years, the Nationals are getting a pretty significant value in this particular outfielder. The upside isn’t super high, but he’s instantly one of the better players on that team, and will make them better both in 2009 and going forward.For the Pirates, they get to try to figure out how to extract some value from Lastings Milledge, who would have to take several steps forward before he was as good as Morgan is now. Can’t say I’m a fan of this move for Pittsburgh, but that’s getting to be a theme lately. The Pirates have made a series of head-scratching moves of late, and this one just continues that trend. Hanrahan is a nice buy low candidate, and a better bet for the future than Burnett, but relievers just aren’t that hard to acquire. The Pirates get worse now for some hope of getting better in the future, but that hope is tied to a belief in Lastings Milledge’s improvement that I don’t have.Good trade for Mike Rizzo and the Nationals. For once, they finally acquired an outfielder with some usefulness.

Who is this guy? Anyone can concede that Morgan's a better defender. He's also 29 and was a single A player at Milledge's age. He won't be the difference between winning and losing in Washington, and I'd guess that Milledge has some time to improve his defense.As for the comment that Milledge will have to take several steps just to be as good as Morgan is now, I disagree.Milledge's 2008 season at age 23:.267-.329-.402 in 523 at bats. 14 homers and 28 stolen basesMorgan's 2009 season at age 29.277-.351-.356 in 278 at bats. 2 homers and 18 stolen bases (4 and 38 over a full season)Milledge is far more likely to improve. Yes, defense counts, but the Pirates will use Milledge in LF and have a tremendous defender in CF.I just fail to follow his logic.

 

[eagles2007]

this was hardly a fire sale. the pirates improved their team in these deals.

as for trading jack wilson and other team's values of him, remember, these dumbasses turned down jair jurggens for him 2 years ago.

 

[Steelers4Life]

this was hardly a fire sale. the pirates improved their team in these deals. as for trading jack wilson and other team's values of him, remember, these dumbasses turned down jair jurggens for him 2 years ago.

No it wasn't.That was the Littlefield group.

 

[eagles2007]

this was hardly a fire sale. the pirates improved their team in these deals. as for trading jack wilson and other team's values of him, remember, these dumbasses turned down jair jurggens for him 2 years ago.

No it wasn't.That was the Littlefield group.

i was referencing the pirates in general.

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

this was hardly a fire sale. the pirates improved their team in these deals. as for trading jack wilson and other team's values of him, remember, these dumbasses turned down jair jurggens for him 2 years ago.

Come back in a month and tell me there isn't a firesale.

 

[eagles2007]

i like what the pirates are doing. they're trying to add talent. talent and potential. that's how you build a winner when you have screwed up the draft for 10 years.