matuski
Footballguy
Fact = the Bears are 7-1 with TJ as the starter.:reallydeadhorse:
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Play Cedric Benson! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter benson_will_lead_the_way
- Start date
benson_will_lead_the_way
Footballguy
He was also hurt in Arizona. But running for 1000 yards means nothing....seriously....TJ is an average back....I don't accept mediocore...that is all I am saying.
benson_will_lead_the_way
Footballguy
Fact = the Bears were 9-4 with Kyle Orton as the starter..Fact = the Bears were 3-1 with Craig Kenzel as their starter..
hyoujustgotpunked:
matuski
Footballguy
My point exactly.. the best player available plays. This is no exception.TJ>Benson, otherwise you would see it on the field.:maybenextyear:Fact = the Bears were 9-4 with Kyle Orton as the starter..Fact = the Bears were 3-1 with Craig Kenzel as their starter..
Pack43
Footballguy
And Benson was hurt last season and only played in 9 games. Why hasn't Benson been able to beat out this average back and why has he not performed as well when he is on the field?
benson_will_lead_the_way
Footballguy
He only played in 9 games because of a coaches decision....he isn't playing this season b/c of a coaches decision.He did beat him out in training camp.Benson....having a gumby like leg and only being out 3 weeks last season is a miracle(did you see the play?).vs. TJ being hurt in every single season he has played in the NFL.
benson_will_lead_the_way
Footballguy
Or it means that the Bears win b/c of their Defense and not because of their offense....not because of Orton, Krenzel, or THOMAS JONES!!!Thomas Jones is average...he isn't going to all of a sudden....become an LT, or Larry Johnson or a Rudi Johnson or a Steven Jackson....he is going to be average.....if you want average on your team, then you will lose! I want above average and to win.My point exactly.. the best player available plays. This is no exception.TJ>Benson, otherwise you would see it on the field.:maybenextyear:Fact = the Bears were 9-4 with Kyle Orton as the starter..Fact = the Bears were 3-1 with Craig Kenzel as their starter..
Banger
Footballguy
he's average but still ahead of Benson, so what does that say about him?Or it means that the Bears win b/c of their Defense and not because of their offense....not because of Orton, Krenzel, or THOMAS JONES!!!Thomas Jones is average...he isn't going to all of a sudden....become an LT, or Larry Johnson or a Rudi Johnson or a Steven Jackson....he is going to be average.....if you want average on your team, then you will lose! I want above average and to win.My point exactly.. the best player available plays. This is no exception.TJ>Benson, otherwise you would see it on the field.:maybenextyear:Fact = the Bears were 9-4 with Kyle Orton as the starter..Fact = the Bears were 3-1 with Craig Kenzel as their starter..
Mungo Burrows
Footballguy
He "just kept on fighting" all the way to the equipment manager's office while the game was still going on and while his team was having a mandatory post-game meeting.
Pack43
Footballguy
Oh come on, Benson sprained ligaments in his knee last year and missed 6 games. You call that a coaches decision? Outside of 2002, Jones hasn't missed more than 2 games in a season. And in that year, he played in as many games as Benson did last year. And again Benson did not beat Jones out in camp. Smith started running Benson with the 1st team because Jones didn't show up for the voluntary workouts. Of course, if you insist on putting it that way, then you must conclude that Benson lost the job because he couldn't stay healthy. Again. Talk about injury-prone.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
::crickets::
Jedimaster21
Footballguy
Despite being a top 10 draft pick, Thomas Jones is clearly not an elite back. He had been mediocre at best until he came to the Bears, and now is an above average RB. He is a solid blocker and is a decent receiver out of the backfield. He does not have elite speed or elusiveness, and has difficulty making something out of nothing. However, he clearly is still the #1 back for the Bears because they know what to expect from him. He is close with his teamates and is a leader on the Bears. They don't need a difference maker at the position to win.
Cedric Benson has looked impressive at times, but has also been very ineffective with the ball at times. Although he is a very high pick, his inconsistency in several areas has kept him off the field. He has alienated his teamates with a few statements to the media, is still a liability in pass protection, and has really not demonstrated that he deserves to be in the game over Thomas Jones.
All this being said, I think it is inevitable that Benson will see more playing time in Chicago. Thomas Jones will want a new contract once again, and the Bears certainly won't give him what he wants. I think there is a good chance that Benson will see some major playing time at the end of the season, not only to keep Jones healthy for the playoffs, but to see what he can do carrying the load. I would also be very surprised if Benson isn't the starter going into next season. He is a great buy low candidate in a keeper league IMO. The real question is whether or not he will be effective in that role when he finally gets his chance. I think he will.
Cedric Benson has looked impressive at times, but has also been very ineffective with the ball at times. Although he is a very high pick, his inconsistency in several areas has kept him off the field. He has alienated his teamates with a few statements to the media, is still a liability in pass protection, and has really not demonstrated that he deserves to be in the game over Thomas Jones.
All this being said, I think it is inevitable that Benson will see more playing time in Chicago. Thomas Jones will want a new contract once again, and the Bears certainly won't give him what he wants. I think there is a good chance that Benson will see some major playing time at the end of the season, not only to keep Jones healthy for the playoffs, but to see what he can do carrying the load. I would also be very surprised if Benson isn't the starter going into next season. He is a great buy low candidate in a keeper league IMO. The real question is whether or not he will be effective in that role when he finally gets his chance. I think he will.
grouse
Footballguy
mr. furley
Footballguy
why do Shark Poolers think that Benson should and will start when even his own coach doesn't think so?
2 years in a row.
that's all i need to see.
if Jones sucks so bad, as a lot of you think, why isn't he on the bench?? if Benson is so great, why isn't he in the lineup?
numbers are great. but you can make them say what you want to back your argument. i see Jones starting every week and not Benson. that's all that matters.
the Bears are 7-1. Lovie is sending a message to the team and to Benson. work hard and you will play.
2 years in a row.
that's all i need to see.
if Jones sucks so bad, as a lot of you think, why isn't he on the bench?? if Benson is so great, why isn't he in the lineup?
numbers are great. but you can make them say what you want to back your argument. i see Jones starting every week and not Benson. that's all that matters.
the Bears are 7-1. Lovie is sending a message to the team and to Benson. work hard and you will play.
Norseman
Footballguy
why do Shark Poolers think that Benson should and will start when even his own coach doesn't think so?2 years in a row.that's all i need to see.if Jones sucks so bad, as a lot of you think, why isn't he on the bench?? if Benson is so great, why isn't he in the lineup?numbers are great. but you can make them say what you want to back your argument. i see Jones starting every week and not Benson. that's all that matters.
grouse
Footballguy
<twocents>My take on Benson is that he got off on the wrong foot with this team and in the Bears locker room from the moment he was drafted. You keep hearing NFL players constantly repeat the line 'teammates have to trust each other' etc. I think Jones had/has that trust and Benson just didn't do anything to earn the trust and respect of his teammates. He came to the Bears as a hot-head first-rounder, it's all about me kinda player, and Urlacher & Co. spit him out of the locker room. But time heals all wounds, and the good young players take their lumps and learn from them. Benson has taken the slow road to earning that respect, but I think he's finally beginning to clue-in to the value of playing the 'good soldier'. He's quiet, he's working and he's starting to say the right things. He has far too much pedigree and investment in him to not be given the shot to start at some point. When that will be is anyones guess, but I clearly see signs that he's on the right track now. And while Jones hasn't been bad by any means, he's not proving to be an elite player. Benson still could be.</twocents>why do Shark Poolers think that Benson should and will start when even his own coach doesn't think so?2 years in a row.that's all i need to see.if Jones sucks so bad, as a lot of you think, why isn't he on the bench?? if Benson is so great, why isn't he in the lineup?numbers are great. but you can make them say what you want to back your argument. i see Jones starting every week and not Benson. that's all that matters.
The Bears pretty much know what they're going to get from Jones...which is an average running back at best. So why wouldn't the Bears give their 2nd year first round draft pick at least one game with over 20 carries to finally see what he can do and put the debate to rest?
What is the worst thing that could happen? He will either be better than Jones or worse. If he's better, then perhaps he leads the Bears to the Superbowl and they've solidified the position for the next 4+ years.
If he's worse, then the Bears know he's probably a bust. But more importantly...the Bears will know they have a serious problem at the RB position in future because of Jones' contract situation. (I realize option C is Benson missing a block and Grossman gets hurt, but I'm not sure if seeing Greise play would be a bad thing either after Grossman's latest debacle vs. Miami.)
I can't figure out what Benson has done to prevent the coaching staff from giving him a larger role in at least one game...must've been something really bad.
I do know the coaching staff's actions spoke volumes when Benson didn't play very much after going up 41-0 at half against the 49ers. If he didn't play after the team was up 41-0 by half, then when will play? I don't think we'll see Benson very much at all this year unless Jones gets hurt...and that is a dumb decision by the Bears coaching staff...one that has ramifications beyond just this year.
What is the worst thing that could happen? He will either be better than Jones or worse. If he's better, then perhaps he leads the Bears to the Superbowl and they've solidified the position for the next 4+ years.
If he's worse, then the Bears know he's probably a bust. But more importantly...the Bears will know they have a serious problem at the RB position in future because of Jones' contract situation. (I realize option C is Benson missing a block and Grossman gets hurt, but I'm not sure if seeing Greise play would be a bad thing either after Grossman's latest debacle vs. Miami.)
I can't figure out what Benson has done to prevent the coaching staff from giving him a larger role in at least one game...must've been something really bad.
I do know the coaching staff's actions spoke volumes when Benson didn't play very much after going up 41-0 at half against the 49ers. If he didn't play after the team was up 41-0 by half, then when will play? I don't think we'll see Benson very much at all this year unless Jones gets hurt...and that is a dumb decision by the Bears coaching staff...one that has ramifications beyond just this year.
Crickets because its not worth replying too. All that tells me is Thomas Jones has had 77 MORE opportunities to raise his YPC than Benson.
faulkfan
Footballguy
There is nothing to prove that Bensen is better than TJ. But there isn't much evidence (other than his not playing) to say he isn't either.
Bensen hasn't gotten as many carries or had continuous touches to establish any sort of rhythm. When he has played he hasn't looked like anything special, but it is tough to judge since he is more of a bruising back type and may need a lot of touches to get it going.
TJ may not be doing much this season, but he has shown he has the ability to produce and the Bears may be basing ther decision on that fact. He cn pass block, catch the ball and play all downs which makes him versatile and valuable. With a young, injury prone QB maybe it is better to limit the number of changes they make to the offensive personnel.
All that being said, I can't see the harm in giving Bensen a game to see what he can do in real game action. You'd think with the kind of coin they have tied up in him that they'd throw him out there one game and see what he's made of. He isn't a fumbler so why not give him a shot?
I can only assume there is a reason and since none of us regularly attend practices we can only speculate as to what they are. As a Bensen owner I would like to see him get a shot, but as a Bear fan I want whoever gives them the best chance to win.
Bensen hasn't gotten as many carries or had continuous touches to establish any sort of rhythm. When he has played he hasn't looked like anything special, but it is tough to judge since he is more of a bruising back type and may need a lot of touches to get it going.
TJ may not be doing much this season, but he has shown he has the ability to produce and the Bears may be basing ther decision on that fact. He cn pass block, catch the ball and play all downs which makes him versatile and valuable. With a young, injury prone QB maybe it is better to limit the number of changes they make to the offensive personnel.
All that being said, I can't see the harm in giving Bensen a game to see what he can do in real game action. You'd think with the kind of coin they have tied up in him that they'd throw him out there one game and see what he's made of. He isn't a fumbler so why not give him a shot?
I can only assume there is a reason and since none of us regularly attend practices we can only speculate as to what they are. As a Bensen owner I would like to see him get a shot, but as a Bear fan I want whoever gives them the best chance to win.
gman8343
What would Lemmy do?
I think if Chicago wraps up home field Benson will see alot of action in the last couple of games, but the reason they're probably not playing him so much now is they think TJ is giving them the best chance to win right now. They're contending for a championship, and Benson may need a little adjustment period as the starter. TJ isn't lighting it up but he does a lot of little things well, and they seem comfortable with that. I figure Benson will be the guy in '07, but for this year it's probably TJ getting most of the work while they try and get that ring.
::Crickets::
benson_will_lead_the_way
Footballguy
With the Bears rushing offense ranked 19th and average per rush ranked 29th.......keeping Thomas Jones in their all the time makes....NO SENSE!!!
TheFanatic
Footballguy
I think the chemestry factor has been overlooked here. Benson has made some bad decisions in winning over his teammates. That team loves TJones. The team has 1 loss with TJones. Don't fix it if it ain't broken. Simple as that. I agree that Cedric probably has more talent than TJones, but he hasn't got the experience and hasn't earned the right to get on the field more to get experience. A large signing bonus does not guarantee that right if the team is winning. If the team were losing the fans and the front office would scream for Benson to get in there. But if they keep winning then Lovie has got carte blanche. I don't see TJones getting an extension with the Bears due to the financials of the situation, so they will need to get Cedric some experience on the field at some point. But as long as they keep winning it looks like that will take longer and longer to happen....
M
MLBrandow
Guest
+----------+-------------+--------+----+| WK OPP | RSH YD | RECYD | TD |+----------+-------------+--------+----+| 1 gnb | 21 63 | 0 | 0 || 2 det | 21 64 | 2 | 0 || 3 min | 18 54 | 11 | 0 || 4 sea | 24 98 | 9 | 2 || 5 buf | 22 109 | 13 | 0 || 6 ari | 11 39 | 14 | 0 || 8 sfo | 23 111 | 23 | 1 || 9 mia | 20 69 | 24 | 0 |+----------+-------------+--------+----+| TOTAL | 160 607 | 96 | 3 |+----------+-------------+--------+----+So, 1400 all-purpose and 6TDs is no good for you?I also agree Benson is the future AND the better RB, but he needs to finish learning first. Give him until next year to breakout.
Jagerbomber
Footballguy
Unless TJones really stinks up the joint in the next couple of games, or gets hurt I don't see Benson being a huge factor in the next few weeks. Right now the Bears don't to get their offense too out of synch; Jones has been serviceable but definitely not as good as last year.
I agree that the most likely scenario will be this: once they figure out the home field advantage situation then Benson will start getting more carries. Based on that he might actually get significant playing time during the playoffs. If you're a Benson owner stash him for the FFL playoffs and I think that's your best bet to get something out of him.
I agree that the most likely scenario will be this: once they figure out the home field advantage situation then Benson will start getting more carries. Based on that he might actually get significant playing time during the playoffs. If you're a Benson owner stash him for the FFL playoffs and I think that's your best bet to get something out of him.
matuski
Footballguy
i don't think you understand what ypc is... more carries/less carries it is the average. if anything with fewer carries benson has the better chance of raising his ypc.
matuski
Footballguy
Hahaha you are cracking me up.You think the #2 scoring offense in the league gives a rats ### about its rushing rank?keep trying though!
I understand fully what YPC is. I dont think you understand that if a RB with so few carries who's had a lot of them in short yardage situations hasnt had enough extra carries to get into a rhyme and balance it out. Thomas Jones has had these extra carries....77 of them.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
....uh....yes!!
matuski
Footballguy
I guess I'll back up and say I don't understand how this favors Benson getting more carries... if he were the better back in any situation he would get said carries.I'm coming across as a benson basher, when in reality I don't hold anything against the guy.
Having said that it makes no sense for a team to make a change on offense when they have nothing to gain. They have the best record in the NFC, they have the #2 scoring offense in the NFL... you would gamble that just to see what an unproven variable might do?
Next year I think he gets that chance (maybe if/when Chicago clinches home field this year).
matuski
Footballguy
Enough to pull out the rb that got you there? I want what you are smoking...
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I don't think TJ had that much to do with getting them anywhere this year. What are you smoking?
gman8343
What would Lemmy do?
To be fair, TJ has been less than stellar this season. I wouldn't attribute their being the #2 scoring offense in the league to Jones' play. I still think he's the starter though for this season, though Benson will get a fair shot next year for sure IMO.
benson_will_lead_the_way
Footballguy
Because scoring all of those points was because of Thomas Jones....your exactly right.Wow...I wish you were the OC b/c you would have the 4th to worst running game in the league(according to YPC)People need to open up their eyes sometimes.matuski said:
Wreckincrew
Footballguy
The best thing for the running game in general would be better QB play. That defense and a close game/lead will create more opportunities to control the clock. Having Grossman doing a Favre circa '04 and '05 and chucking the ball around trying to make things happen by himself can only lead to a Griese sighting.
No matter what, 7- 1 and a 3.whatever YPC is a problem about 25-30 other teams would like to have.
No matter what, 7- 1 and a 3.whatever YPC is a problem about 25-30 other teams would like to have.
You keep talking about the percentages of short yardage carries to back up your claim. Its really misleading statistical data. Take this example. Player A has 50 total carries, 10 of those were in short yardage situations. That is 20%. Player B has 300 total carries, 75 of those were in short yardage situations. That is 25%. So player B has had a higher % of short yardage carries, much like your theory on T. Jones. However what is misleading is that Player A has only had 40 other opportunities to raise his YPC. While Player B has had 225 other opportunities to raise his YPC. I dont think its hard to see that Player B has a MUCH greater chance to raise his YPC, REGARDLESS of percentages. I know it is a wider range of an example but the theory is still the same.
Pack43
Footballguy
Or more opportunities to reduce his YPC. You think YPC automatically go up with more carries? You keep saying Benson has had a lot of short yardage situations that are hurting his YPC. My point is he's not had many at all.
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Well I just did a little research and Benson has roughly 20 carries in what would be called "short-yardage-running situations". That is 32% of his carries. He also has averaged 4.0 ypc in situations that the defense is not stacking the box expecting run. Namely 2nd downs and when the team is behind.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7180/s...NsFalBNsSH.uLYF
Pack43
Footballguy
What are you defining as short-yardage situations? Note, those categories are not mutually exclusive. Heck, only 17 of his carries have been in situations of less than 8 yards to go. How do you get 20 in short-yardage?
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1st and G: 5, 2nd and G: 1, 1d<3: 2, 1d 3-7: 1, 1d<6: 3, 2d<3: 5, 2d 3-7: 6, 2d<6: 10, 3d 3-7: 3, 3d<6: 3
That is 38 carries I know some of them may overlap. Some of the 3-7s may have been 3 yards, 4 yards, who knows. But thats why I said "roughly 20"
He's also had 41 2nd half carries, and 54 carries when the team was ahead. I cant prove it but I have a feeling that most of those carries the Defense was probably gearing toward the run.
Pack43
Footballguy
Well, your denominator is way off then because you're double-counting. For example, some of the 1st and G are also in 1d<3 and 1d<6. You're counting a lot of these carries two or more times and then dividing by his 63 carries. You're numbers add up to way more than 100%. You probably think he has 9 TDs too.
No you dip####. I just said above that "I know some of them may overlap" thats why I took the 38 TOTAL carries and divided by two. thats how I got to "roughly 20"
Even if its 15 carries thats 24% coupled with him having 41 2nd half carries and 54 carries when the team was ahead. Probably 25 of those carries were in situations where the defense was geared toward the run. That would equal out to about 50% of his carries being in either short yardage or when the defense was stacked for the run.
M
MLBrandow
Guest
I don't think most people are judging Cedric Benson right now based on how he is performing in garbage time.That said, they'll never know how good he is until they start him, but we'll get to see that first-hand in week 16 or 17 probably.
matuski
Footballguy
Did I ever say he was the reason? What post are you responding to? Not mine clearly.You need to open your eyes...This is not about tj/benson. This is about a team on a roll and having NO reason or need to change what it is doing right now. When your team is considered the favorite for the NFC, and a strong contender to win a superbowl AS IS, you need a lot more than "he hasn't had enough carries" to change what you are doing.Next year we will see what Benson is made of, or sooner if the Bears clinch early. Then you can pound your chest all you want. Hopefully he does well when he gets his shot.benson_will_lead_the_way said:
mr. furley
Footballguy
Fact= RUSHING ATT YDS TD T. Jones 30 113 1 C. Benson 6 7 0 err.. the guy can't get on the field even in a blowout. when he did get PT during a meaningful (read, Bears trailing, needing to establish the ground game) he ran SIX TIMES FOR SEVEN YARDS.i predict Benson will start in week 11 however. clearly Lovie has to see that he's the better running back.
