Player Spotlight: Chris "Beanie" Wells (1 Viewer)

[PahtyTom]

"breakaway speed" is the most overrated skill for a rb. balance, strenght, vision are all far more important. turning a 0 yd gain into a 4 yd gain repeatedly is more important than the few times a rb gets a step on the defense and takes it all the way. mainly bc the short gains happen far far far more often.

some rbs without "breakaway speed." edge after his knee injury. portis the last few years. emmit smith. curtis martin.

when comparing wells to tim freakin hightower i think the last aspect we should count against wells is breakaway speed.

fwiw, the player wells most reminds me off is larry johnson.

lol I guess we are on the same page

 

[Koya]

Note to self and board members - dparker makes it up as he goes along...

I've yet to see anyone breakdown a play of Wells' and show he has special talent for a starting NFL RB. People just say, "he was awesome in college." Cedric Benson was awesome in college, nearly a finalist for the Heisman, and a top 5 pick. He sucks. He's always sucked in the NFL. He made a nice run on the TD. He looked like a starting NFL RB. But he looked like an AVERAGE starting RB. Playing at the lower weight may well increase his breakaway chances, but he's not Chris Johnson fast, he's not Adrian Peterson fast, and he's not Steve Slaton fast. He's shown no ability to create something out of nothing. He'll need a well blocked play to do damage. There were several well blocked plays this game by the AZ line, so they may have drastically improved but atleast part of that was GB adjusting to a new base formation.

I did not watch much of Wells in college though I saw some Benson. I never thought Benson was awesome. I never saw a skill set that told me greatness, or even real NFL success.On Wells' longer TD the other day, there was the ability to read blocks, set up blocks, make some very nice cuts, cut backs and shifts further using those set up blocks not to mention the vision to find the space.That is far from average. It was either one amazingly lucky, albeit apparantly benign TD run - or he has some damn nice skills that few posses. Certainly in one package.

 

[cmv5]

Note to self and board members - dparker makes it up as he goes along...

I've yet to see anyone breakdown a play of Wells' and show he has special talent for a starting NFL RB. People just say, "he was awesome in college." Cedric Benson was awesome in college, nearly a finalist for the Heisman, and a top 5 pick. He sucks. He's always sucked in the NFL. He made a nice run on the TD. He looked like a starting NFL RB. But he looked like an AVERAGE starting RB. Playing at the lower weight may well increase his breakaway chances, but he's not Chris Johnson fast, he's not Adrian Peterson fast, and he's not Steve Slaton fast. He's shown no ability to create something out of nothing. He'll need a well blocked play to do damage. There were several well blocked plays this game by the AZ line, so they may have drastically improved but atleast part of that was GB adjusting to a new base formation.

Okay, you were able to ascertain all of that on 7 carries in his first NFL (preseason) action?

 

[thehornet]

Note to self and board members - dparker makes it up as he goes along...

I've yet to see anyone breakdown a play of Wells' and show he has special talent for a starting NFL RB. People just say, "he was awesome in college." Cedric Benson was awesome in college, nearly a finalist for the Heisman, and a top 5 pick. He sucks. He's always sucked in the NFL. He made a nice run on the TD. He looked like a starting NFL RB. But he looked like an AVERAGE starting RB. Playing at the lower weight may well increase his breakaway chances, but he's not Chris Johnson fast, he's not Adrian Peterson fast, and he's not Steve Slaton fast. He's shown no ability to create something out of nothing. He'll need a well blocked play to do damage. There were several well blocked plays this game by the AZ line, so they may have drastically improved but atleast part of that was GB adjusting to a new base formation.

Okay, you were able to ascertain all of that on 7 carries in his first NFL (preseason) action?

Seriously. This is ridiculous. Just about every major scout in the nation has always labeled Wells as an elite talent and a future franchise Running Back. This is not to say he doesnt have flaws because he does, but to say he is average is assanine.

 

[Todem]

There is no question about Beanie Wells physical talent. None.

There is a huge question about this kids heart and tougness. That will determine his future in the league.

 

[cvnpoka]

i really dont think theres a question about his heart or toughness. at all. he played all of last season wearing an offensive linemens boot bc of a torn ligament or tendon (colleges can be ambiguous about injury.)

he got hurt all the time but he still played. thats a damn good sign of toughness in my mind. the notion that getting injured shows a lack of heart or toughness is absurd. esp to knock a guy who played thru these injuries.

his question is durability.

 

[dparker713]

Note to self and board members - dparker makes it up as he goes along...

I've yet to see anyone breakdown a play of Wells' and show he has special talent for a starting NFL RB. People just say, "he was awesome in college." Cedric Benson was awesome in college, nearly a finalist for the Heisman, and a top 5 pick. He sucks. He's always sucked in the NFL. He made a nice run on the TD. He looked like a starting NFL RB. But he looked like an AVERAGE starting RB. Playing at the lower weight may well increase his breakaway chances, but he's not Chris Johnson fast, he's not Adrian Peterson fast, and he's not Steve Slaton fast. He's shown no ability to create something out of nothing. He'll need a well blocked play to do damage. There were several well blocked plays this game by the AZ line, so they may have drastically improved but atleast part of that was GB adjusting to a new base formation.

I did not watch much of Wells in college though I saw some Benson. I never thought Benson was awesome. I never saw a skill set that told me greatness, or even real NFL success.On Wells' longer TD the other day, there was the ability to read blocks, set up blocks, make some very nice cuts, cut backs and shifts further using those set up blocks not to mention the vision to find the space.That is far from average. It was either one amazingly lucky, albeit apparantly benign TD run - or he has some damn nice skills that few posses. Certainly in one package.

There are a total of 32 starting RB jobs in the NFL. So by my count he'd need to be atleast top 12 in talent to be above average or better.Starting RBs:Brandon JacobsBrian WestbrookClinton PortisMarion BarberMichael TurnerDeAngelo WilliamsPierre ThomasEarnest GrahamMatt ForteKevin SmithAdrian PetersonRyan GrantJulius JonesSteven JacksonTim HightowerFrank GoreMarshawn LynchRonnie BrownThomas JonesLaurence MaroneyRay RiceCedric BensonWillie ParkerJamal LewisSteve SlatonChris JohnsonJoseph AddaiMaurice Jones DrewCorrell BuckhalterLarry JohnsonLustin FargasLaDanian TomlinsonI put him top 20 in that list, but certainly not top 12. Plus there are several backups that I believe are more talented than he is. Add in the inability over the last few years of AZ to run the ball. I just dont see any reason to project him for over 200 points like several in this thread have - that would have put him in RB12 territory last year.

 

[thehornet]

Note to self and board members - dparker makes it up as he goes along...

I've yet to see anyone breakdown a play of Wells' and show he has special talent for a starting NFL RB. People just say, "he was awesome in college." Cedric Benson was awesome in college, nearly a finalist for the Heisman, and a top 5 pick. He sucks. He's always sucked in the NFL. He made a nice run on the TD. He looked like a starting NFL RB. But he looked like an AVERAGE starting RB. Playing at the lower weight may well increase his breakaway chances, but he's not Chris Johnson fast, he's not Adrian Peterson fast, and he's not Steve Slaton fast. He's shown no ability to create something out of nothing. He'll need a well blocked play to do damage. There were several well blocked plays this game by the AZ line, so they may have drastically improved but atleast part of that was GB adjusting to a new base formation.

I did not watch much of Wells in college though I saw some Benson. I never thought Benson was awesome. I never saw a skill set that told me greatness, or even real NFL success.On Wells' longer TD the other day, there was the ability to read blocks, set up blocks, make some very nice cuts, cut backs and shifts further using those set up blocks not to mention the vision to find the space.That is far from average. It was either one amazingly lucky, albeit apparantly benign TD run - or he has some damn nice skills that few posses. Certainly in one package.

There are a total of 32 starting RB jobs in the NFL. So by my count he'd need to be atleast top 12 in talent to be above average or better.Starting RBs:Brandon JacobsBrian WestbrookClinton PortisMarion BarberMichael TurnerDeAngelo WilliamsPierre ThomasEarnest GrahamMatt ForteKevin SmithAdrian PetersonRyan GrantJulius JonesSteven JacksonTim HightowerFrank GoreMarshawn LynchRonnie BrownThomas JonesLaurence MaroneyRay RiceCedric BensonWillie ParkerJamal LewisSteve SlatonChris JohnsonJoseph AddaiMaurice Jones DrewCorrell BuckhalterLarry JohnsonLustin FargasLaDanian TomlinsonI put him top 20 in that list, but certainly not top 12. Plus there are several backups that I believe are more talented than he is. Add in the inability over the last few years of AZ to run the ball. I just dont see any reason to project him for over 200 points like several in this thread have - that would have put him in RB12 territory last year.

Only the top 12 are considered above average to you? Wow, high standards.

 

[TitusIII]

"breakaway speed" is the most overrated skill for a rb. balance, strenght, vision are all far more important. turning a 0 yd gain into a 4 yd gain repeatedly is more important than the few times a rb gets a step on the defense and takes it all the way. mainly bc the short gains happen far far far more often.some rbs without "breakaway speed." edge after his knee injury. portis the last few years. emmit smith. curtis martin.when comparing wells to tim freakin hightower i think the last aspect we should count against wells is breakaway speed.fwiw, the player wells most reminds me off is larry johnson.

Agreed, see Matt Forte for the perfect example of a damn good RB who lacks "breakaway speed". Guys like him have elite vision/"shimmy"/toughness/etc...Barry Sanders-esque speed is nice, but those guys only come along a few times over the decades...IF Wells can stay healthy, he will out-perform his ADP by a significant margin. In fact, I see him being a lock first round pick in 2010. Get him while you can!

 

[bengalbuck]

i really dont think theres a question about his heart or toughness. at all. he played all of last season wearing an offensive linemens boot bc of a torn ligament or tendon (colleges can be ambiguous about injury.) he got hurt all the time but he still played. thats a damn good sign of toughness in my mind. the notion that getting injured shows a lack of heart or toughness is absurd. esp to knock a guy who played thru these injuries. his question is durability.

I disagree with you. And I'm saying that as a huge Buckeye fan and Beanie Wells supporter.Jim Tressel came out and said last year that Beanie needed to learn the difference between being hurt and being injured. Tress isn't the type of guy to make that type of statement basically calling out a player very often. There were definitely many times during his college career where he took himself out of the game when he was "hurt not injured."From what I have heard about his time at OSU, Beanie has an ankle injury that is pretty much always going to bother him. He just has to learn to play through it. If he does, he will be bigtime. He has great feet and vision, legit sub 4.5 speed and an amazing stiffarm.

 

[dparker713]

"breakaway speed" is the most overrated skill for a rb. balance, strenght, vision are all far more important. turning a 0 yd gain into a 4 yd gain repeatedly is more important than the few times a rb gets a step on the defense and takes it all the way. mainly bc the short gains happen far far far more often.some rbs without "breakaway speed." edge after his knee injury. portis the last few years. emmit smith. curtis martin.when comparing wells to tim freakin hightower i think the last aspect we should count against wells is breakaway speed.fwiw, the player wells most reminds me off is larry johnson.

Well, when people project him for 4.7 yards per carry, he either needs to have breakaway speed to break off some long runs or an exceptional run blocking OL. He has neither. He also doesn't have exceptional balance, quickness, strength or vision. He's good in all those areas, but he is not exceptional in any of them. That means he's a RB highly dependent on his situation.

 

[thehornet]

"breakaway speed" is the most overrated skill for a rb. balance, strenght, vision are all far more important. turning a 0 yd gain into a 4 yd gain repeatedly is more important than the few times a rb gets a step on the defense and takes it all the way. mainly bc the short gains happen far far far more often.some rbs without "breakaway speed." edge after his knee injury. portis the last few years. emmit smith. curtis martin.when comparing wells to tim freakin hightower i think the last aspect we should count against wells is breakaway speed.fwiw, the player wells most reminds me off is larry johnson.

Well, when people project him for 4.7 yards per carry, he either needs to have breakaway speed to break off some long runs or an exceptional run blocking OL. He has neither. He also doesn't have exceptional balance, quickness, strength or vision. He's good in all those areas, but he is not exceptional in any of them. That means he's a RB highly dependent on his situation.

He is well above average in everything you just mentioned. Maybe not elite at all or any of them, but well above average at ALL of them. I'm getting the feelinf from you that if a player is not the next Jim Brown, then he must be average.

 

[cvnpoka]

i really dont think theres a question about his heart or toughness. at all. he played all of last season wearing an offensive linemens boot bc of a torn ligament or tendon (colleges can be ambiguous about injury.) he got hurt all the time but he still played. thats a damn good sign of toughness in my mind. the notion that getting injured shows a lack of heart or toughness is absurd. esp to knock a guy who played thru these injuries. his question is durability.

I disagree with you. And I'm saying that as a huge Buckeye fan and Beanie Wells supporter.Jim Tressel came out and said last year that Beanie needed to learn the difference between being hurt and being injured. Tress isn't the type of guy to make that type of statement basically calling out a player very often. There were definitely many times during his college career where he took himself out of the game when he was "hurt not injured."From what I have heard about his time at OSU, Beanie has an ankle injury that is pretty much always going to bother him. He just has to learn to play through it. If he does, he will be bigtime. He has great feet and vision, legit sub 4.5 speed and an amazing stiffarm.

ok, if tress says that, then i agree there is proly something to it. tress never calls out players.

 

[Itchy Amos]

There are a total of 32 starting RB jobs in the NFL. So by my count he'd need to be atleast top 12 in talent to be above average or better.Starting RBs:Brandon JacobsBrian WestbrookClinton PortisMarion BarberMichael TurnerDeAngelo WilliamsPierre ThomasEarnest GrahamMatt ForteKevin SmithAdrian PetersonRyan GrantJulius JonesSteven JacksonTim HightowerFrank GoreMarshawn LynchRonnie BrownThomas JonesLaurence MaroneyRay RiceCedric BensonWillie ParkerJamal LewisSteve SlatonChris JohnsonJoseph AddaiMaurice Jones DrewCorrell BuckhalterLarry JohnsonLustin FargasLaDanian TomlinsonI put him top 20 in that list, but certainly not top 12. Plus there are several backups that I believe are more talented than he is. Add in the inability over the last few years of AZ to run the ball. I just dont see any reason to project him for over 200 points like several in this thread have - that would have put him in RB12 territory last year.

Geez. What metric should we use to quantify "better"? speed, power, agression, technique, desire? How can you even begin to put him on any lists? He has played so little.All I care about is that he looks like he is far and away the best running back on his team. A team - which by the way - that features one of the most potent offenses in the league. He will never see 8 in the box. The jury was out on this guy because he hadnt played. He now has and he looked GREAT. He had a fantastic college career at a perennial power house. The guy is good. If he can stay healthy, he has a chance to be an absolute steal in the 7th round.

 

[Gr00vus]

This is one guy I'm sad I whiffed on in all my drafts this past weekend. I kept targeting him in round 7 and he kept going in round 6 (12 team leagues).

 

[Todem]

i really dont think theres a question about his heart or toughness. at all. he played all of last season wearing an offensive linemens boot bc of a torn ligament or tendon (colleges can be ambiguous about injury.) he got hurt all the time but he still played. thats a damn good sign of toughness in my mind. the notion that getting injured shows a lack of heart or toughness is absurd. esp to knock a guy who played thru these injuries. his question is durability.

I disagree with you. And I'm saying that as a huge Buckeye fan and Beanie Wells supporter.Jim Tressel came out and said last year that Beanie needed to learn the difference between being hurt and being injured. Tress isn't the type of guy to make that type of statement basically calling out a player very often. There were definitely many times during his college career where he took himself out of the game when he was "hurt not injured."From what I have heard about his time at OSU, Beanie has an ankle injury that is pretty much always going to bother him. He just has to learn to play through it. If he does, he will be bigtime. He has great feet and vision, legit sub 4.5 speed and an amazing stiffarm.

Exactly the same thing I read about him at Ohio State. He needs to learn to play hurt. He has had an ankle problem thorughout his college career. Either he learns to play with pain or he will be an afterthought in the NFL.

 

[DoubleG]

"breakaway speed" is the most overrated skill for a rb. balance, strenght, vision are all far more important. turning a 0 yd gain into a 4 yd gain repeatedly is more important than the few times a rb gets a step on the defense and takes it all the way. mainly bc the short gains happen far far far more often.some rbs without "breakaway speed." edge after his knee injury. portis the last few years. emmit smith. curtis martin.when comparing wells to tim freakin hightower i think the last aspect we should count against wells is breakaway speed.fwiw, the player wells most reminds me off is larry johnson.

Well, when people project him for 4.7 yards per carry, he either needs to have breakaway speed to break off some long runs or an exceptional run blocking OL. He has neither. He also doesn't have exceptional balance, quickness, strength or vision. He's good in all those areas, but he is not exceptional in any of them. That means he's a RB highly dependent on his situation.

Off the top of my head Brandon Jacobs and Sammy Morris are both guys that had 4.7 ypc or better last year. I wouldn't say either has "breakaway speed". Just for the record so did Adrian Peterson...of Chicago - as did Buckhalter. I'm not syaing he's a lock for 4.7 YPC, but somewhere in the 4.3-4.7 is not out of the question given what defenses are going to have to do with Fitz and Boldin and Breaston when they go 3 wide. They aint going to be keeping 8 in the box. That + Wells' talent could easily put him in the 4.3-4.7 range.

 

[dschuler]

Note to self and board members - dparker makes it up as he goes along...

I've yet to see anyone breakdown a play of Wells' and show he has special talent for a starting NFL RB. People just say, "he was awesome in college." Cedric Benson was awesome in college, nearly a finalist for the Heisman, and a top 5 pick. He sucks. He's always sucked in the NFL. He made a nice run on the TD. He looked like a starting NFL RB. But he looked like an AVERAGE starting RB. Playing at the lower weight may well increase his breakaway chances, but he's not Chris Johnson fast, he's not Adrian Peterson fast, and he's not Steve Slaton fast. He's shown no ability to create something out of nothing. He'll need a well blocked play to do damage. There were several well blocked plays this game by the AZ line, so they may have drastically improved but atleast part of that was GB adjusting to a new base formation.

I did not watch much of Wells in college though I saw some Benson. I never thought Benson was awesome. I never saw a skill set that told me greatness, or even real NFL success.On Wells' longer TD the other day, there was the ability to read blocks, set up blocks, make some very nice cuts, cut backs and shifts further using those set up blocks not to mention the vision to find the space.

That is far from average. It was either one amazingly lucky, albeit apparantly benign TD run - or he has some damn nice skills that few posses. Certainly in one package.

From a college standpoint, Beanie wasn't half the player Benson was in college. How can you say that Benson wasn't exciting in college? He used to murder kids. Obviously, you haven't watched much college football at all. He won the Doak Walker award in college which is given to the best running back in college but your right, he must of been a scrub. He finished 6th ALL TIME in college rushing, but that must of meant nothing. He has rushed for more yardage (8423 yards) in high school than any other player ever in the state of Texas at the 5A level. He wasn't a very good athlete, just got drafted in the top 5 of the NFL draft and the 12th round of the MLB draft when he was still a freakin' TEENAGER!

"I award you no points, and may GOD have mercy on your soul." (someone reference the movie)

These are Cedric Benson's college statistics:

SEASON ATTYDS AVG TD REC YDS AVG TD

2004 326 1834 5.6 19 22 179 8.1 1

2003 258 1360 5.3 21 9 120 13.3 1

2002 305 1293 4.2 12 21 119 5.7 0

2001 223 1090 4.9 12 17 203 11.9 0

 

[Kit Fisto]

"I award you no points, and may GOD have mercy on your soul." (someone reference the movie)

Old School.

 

[prefontaine]

From a college standpoint, Beanie wasn't half the player Benson was in college. How can you say that Benson wasn't exciting in college? He used to murder kids. Obviously, you haven't watched much college football at all. He won the Doak Walker award in college which is given to the best running back in college but your right, he must of been a scrub. He finished 6th ALL TIME in college rushing, but that must of meant nothing. He has rushed for more yardage (8423 yards) in high school than any other player ever in the state of Texas at the 5A level. He wasn't a very good athlete, just got drafted in the top 5 of the NFL draft and the 12th round of the MLB draft when he was still a freakin' TEENAGER!



"I award you no points, and may GOD have mercy on your soul." (someone reference the movie)

These are Cedric Benson's college statistics:

SEASON ATTYDS AVG TD REC YDS AVG TD

2004 326 1834 5.6 19 22 179 8.1 1

2003 258 1360 5.3 21 9 120 13.3 1

2002 305 1293 4.2 12 21 119 5.7 0

2001 223 1090 4.9 12 17 203 11.9 0

His comment was: "I never saw a skill set that told me greatness, or even real NFL success."I don't know why you took so much offense to this suggestion. I think a lot of people questioned Benson out of college...not because he didn't put up great stats, because clearly he did, but some guys have a game that translates well and others don't. Guys like Benson, Ron Dayne, TJ Duckett, and others dominated in college but never really stood out in the NFL simply due to a lack of speed. There was a giant thread of Benson bashing on this very site his rookie year so his opinion is not only not unique, it was pretty widespread.

And while it's rare that backs who do nothing in college suddenly produce in the NFL, guys like Terrell Davis, Ryan Grant, and Brandon Jacobs prove it does happen. But there is a litany of backs every year that produced really well in college and never did squat in the NFL. So quoting college or high school (seriously?) stats really seems like a weird angle.

 

[prefontaine]

"I award you no points, and may GOD have mercy on your soul." (someone reference the movie)

Old School.

Billy Madison

 

[Multiple Scores]

Note to self and board members - dparker makes it up as he goes along...

I've yet to see anyone breakdown a play of Wells' and show he has special talent for a starting NFL RB.

Just off the top of my head he does have a very special talent, his stiff arm. I have never seen a RB with a better stiff arm. As of today I would say prior to Wells coming to the NFL the best NFL stiffarm that is currently playing is Willis McGahee, just saying that so you don't look at the overall picture of a great back, McGahee is not a great back right now or really ever in the NFL.

 

[Jack Burton]

"I award you no points, and may GOD have mercy on your soul." (someone reference the movie)

Old School.

Close. Back to school.

 

[DrJamesAndrews Fan]

Hightower to start Week #1

 

[corpcow]

Hightower to start Week #1

That's good, I think, because it means Wells can still be had at a value in new drafts. I honestly can't see Hightower starting beyond week 4, barring injury.

 

[dparker713]

"I award you no points, and may GOD have mercy on your soul." (someone reference the movie)

Old School.

Close. Back to school.

Wow, quite a fail. The answer is already in the thread. The principal in Billy Madison.

 

[Multiple Scores]

Hightower to start Week #1

I believe NFLN calls it the "Courtesy Veteran Start". Just about rolled outta my chair when they said that talking about Clemens/Sanchez a few weeks back.

 

[two_dollars]

"I award you no points, and may GOD have mercy on your soul." (someone reference the movie)

Old School.

Close. Back to school.

Wow, quite a fail. The answer is already in the thread. The principal in Billy Madison.

Actually the movie is Billy Madison but it wasn't the principal, it was the debate moderator. The principal was "The Blob" ex-wrestler.

 

[massraider]

Hightower to start Week #1

I believe NFLN calls it the "Courtesy Veteran Start". Just about rolled outta my chair when they said that talking about Clemens/Sanchez a few weeks back.

Great news for Beanie Backers. Maybe he falls a bit in drafts.

 

[Blackjacks]

"I award you no points, and may GOD have mercy on your soul." (someone reference the movie)

Old School.

Close. Back to school.

Wow, quite a fail. The answer is already in the thread. The principal in Billy Madison.

Actually the movie is Billy Madison but it wasn't the principal, it was the debate moderator. The principal was "The Blob" ex-wrestler.

The debate moderator was the principal of the high school. The revolting Blob was the principal of the grade school

 

[Blackjacks]

Looks like a young Shaun Alexander to me...just saying.

Actually reminds me a little of Larry Johnson but that's probably not good enough for some people in this thread either.

I like the LJ reference but he does remind me more of Alexander due to his lack of using his size and power to his advantage. Guys like LJ and Jamal Lewis are big physical backs who move the chains by putting down their shoulders and moving the chains. I always thought Alexander was kind of soft and benefited from a very good line infront of him. I can count on one hand how many time I saw him run through someone. I also didn't see alot of this out of Beannie. I hope I'm wrong cause I like him and I want him to succeed but he has to get a little tougher for me to completly buy in.

 

[two_dollars]

"I award you no points, and may GOD have mercy on your soul." (someone reference the movie)

Close. Back to school.

Wow, quite a fail. The answer is already in the thread. The principal in Billy Madison.

Actually the movie is Billy Madison but it wasn't the principal, it was the debate moderator. The principal was "The Blob" ex-wrestler.

The debate moderator was the principal of the high school. The revolting Blob was the principal of the grade school

You're right! I forgot that. Not very often I get tripped up on Adam Sandler trivia.

 

[Federal]

i really dont think theres a question about his heart or toughness. at all. he played all of last season wearing an offensive linemens boot bc of a torn ligament or tendon (colleges can be ambiguous about injury.)

he got hurt all the time but he still played. thats a damn good sign of toughness in my mind. the notion that getting injured shows a lack of heart or toughness is absurd. esp to knock a guy who played thru these injuries.

his question is durability.

I disagree with you. And I'm saying that as a huge Buckeye fan and Beanie Wells supporter.Jim Tressel came out and said last year that Beanie needed to learn the difference between being hurt and being injured. Tress isn't the type of guy to make that type of statement basically calling out a player very often. There were definitely many times during his college career where he took himself out of the game when he was "hurt not injured."

From what I have heard about his time at OSU, Beanie has an ankle injury that is pretty much always going to bother him. He just has to learn to play through it.

If he does, he will be bigtime. He has great feet and vision, legit sub 4.5 speed and an amazing stiffarm.

I think I have watched
at least once a week since draft day...

 

[massraider]

Hightower to start Week #1

BTW, is this news, or is this a guess? Cause I can't find that news anywhere.

 

[happy_donut]

Hightower to start Week #1

BTW, is this news, or is this a guess? Cause I can't find that news anywhere.

Sportsline is reporting it in their rapid reports:http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/1277423

Not sure how reliable that is.

 

[dparker713]

i really dont think theres a question about his heart or toughness. at all. he played all of last season wearing an offensive linemens boot bc of a torn ligament or tendon (colleges can be ambiguous about injury.)

he got hurt all the time but he still played. thats a damn good sign of toughness in my mind. the notion that getting injured shows a lack of heart or toughness is absurd. esp to knock a guy who played thru these injuries.

his question is durability.

I disagree with you. And I'm saying that as a huge Buckeye fan and Beanie Wells supporter.Jim Tressel came out and said last year that Beanie needed to learn the difference between being hurt and being injured. Tress isn't the type of guy to make that type of statement basically calling out a player very often. There were definitely many times during his college career where he took himself out of the game when he was "hurt not injured."

From what I have heard about his time at OSU, Beanie has an ankle injury that is pretty much always going to bother him. He just has to learn to play through it.

If he does, he will be bigtime. He has great feet and vision, legit sub 4.5 speed and an amazing stiffarm.

I think I have watched

Its a pretty good stiff arm, but he gets his hand in the face too much. That was a point of emphasis with the refs last year.

 

[Eminence]

Does this guy go out of bounds of every play?

 

[gradin123]

I think the major problem for Wells is that the Cards are a pass first team and Wells will probably only be used in running situations. I don't envision him getting many receiving yards at all or playing on 3rd downs. His blocking skills are still questionable and that reason alone might be why Hightower will see more time on the field this year.

The Cards do play in a horrible division so there is a chance he might get a decent amount of carries late in games the Cards are winning. But will that be enough? Probably not.

I see him getting 180 carries for 750 yards and about 80 receiving yards.

 

[dschuler]

From a college standpoint, Beanie wasn't half the player Benson was in college. How can you say that Benson wasn't exciting in college? He used to murder kids. Obviously, you haven't watched much college football at all. He won the Doak Walker award in college which is given to the best running back in college but your right, he must of been a scrub. He finished 6th ALL TIME in college rushing, but that must of meant nothing. He has rushed for more yardage (8423 yards) in high school than any other player ever in the state of Texas at the 5A level. He wasn't a very good athlete, just got drafted in the top 5 of the NFL draft and the 12th round of the MLB draft when he was still a freakin' TEENAGER!



"I award you no points, and may GOD have mercy on your soul." (someone reference the movie)

These are Cedric Benson's college statistics:

SEASON ATTYDS AVG TD REC YDS AVG TD

2004 326 1834 5.6 19 22 179 8.1 1

2003 258 1360 5.3 21 9 120 13.3 1

2002 305 1293 4.2 12 21 119 5.7 0

2001 223 1090 4.9 12 17 203 11.9 0

His comment was: "I never saw a skill set that told me greatness, or even real NFL success."I don't know why you took so much offense to this suggestion. I think a lot of people questioned Benson out of college...not because he didn't put up great stats, because clearly he did, but some guys have a game that translates well and others don't. Guys like Benson, Ron Dayne, TJ Duckett, and others dominated in college but never really stood out in the NFL simply due to a lack of speed. There was a giant thread of Benson bashing on this very site his rookie year so his opinion is not only not unique, it was pretty widespread.

And while it's rare that backs who do nothing in college suddenly produce in the NFL, guys like Terrell Davis, Ryan Grant, and Brandon Jacobs prove it does happen. But there is a litany of backs every year that produced really well in college and never did squat in the NFL. So quoting college or high school (seriously?) stats really seems like a weird angle.

STATS ARE ALL THAT MATTER IN FANTASY FOOTBALL!?! What, are you going to tell me I am wrong too? What you just said is one of the most insanely, idiotic things I have ever heard. And I took offense to what he said because 1. I am a Texas fan. 2. At no point during his inherently incoherent response was he even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for listening to it. I AWARD YOU NO POINTS, AND MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOUL. BTW-I love Chris Wells to be a good NFL RB, but for people to just blurt out random crap with no substance is plain ignorant.

Here is how I feel....

 

[Knobs]

Yes, stats are what matters. But we're not talking NFL stats.

As he pointed out, high school and college stats have not always been an accurate way to predict success in the NFL.

I think your Texas homerism clouded your interpetation and you took things the wrong way.

 

[dschuler]

Yes, stats are what matters. But we're not talking NFL stats. As he pointed out, high school and college stats have not always been an accurate way to predict success in the NFL. I think your Texas homerism clouded your interpetation and you took things the wrong way.

Yeah let me guess. There wasn't one good trait you saw in Cedric Benson that would translate good into the pros. So him going 4th in the draft was just a complete surprise to you as well. You must know something general managers, scouts, and the Mel Kiper's of the world don't, although they get paid for it and you don't. To not think Benson was a college stud or Ron Dayne or any of the other college players he listed is idiotic. I am not saying high school stats translate into the pros, but saying someone wasn't beastly in college when he won the Doak Walker and finished 6th all time in rushing is ludicrous. Such a great Monday morning QB, you are the same kind of person who can predict the stock market if he lived a day ahead of everyone else.

 

[coyote5]

Yes, stats are what matters. But we're not talking NFL stats. As he pointed out, high school and college stats have not always been an accurate way to predict success in the NFL. I think your Texas homerism clouded your interpetation and you took things the wrong way.

Yeah let me guess. There wasn't one good trait you saw in Cedric Benson that would translate good into the pros. So him going 4th in the draft was just a complete surprise to you as well. You must know something general managers, scouts, and the Mel Kiper's of the world don't, although they get paid for it and you don't. To not think Benson was a college stud or Ron Dayne or any of the other college players he listed is idiotic. I am not saying high school stats translate into the pros, but saying someone wasn't beastly in college when he won the Doak Walker and finished 6th all time in rushing is ludicrous. Such a great Monday morning QB, you are the same kind of person who can predict the stock market if he lived a day ahead of everyone else.

Did you even read what he wrote??It's pretty easy to see that Benson's beastly college stats did not translate to the NFL, why are you arguing this? Ron Dayne was the top rusher yardage wise in college, how did that work out for him in the pros?

 

[Knobs]

Yes, stats are what matters. But we're not talking NFL stats. As he pointed out, high school and college stats have not always been an accurate way to predict success in the NFL. I think your Texas homerism clouded your interpetation and you took things the wrong way.

Yeah let me guess. There wasn't one good trait you saw in Cedric Benson that would translate good into the pros. So him going 4th in the draft was just a complete surprise to you as well. You must know something general managers, scouts, and the Mel Kiper's of the world don't, although they get paid for it and you don't. To not think Benson was a college stud or Ron Dayne or any of the other college players he listed is idiotic. I am not saying high school stats translate into the pros, but saying someone wasn't beastly in college when he won the Doak Walker and finished 6th all time in rushing is ludicrous. Such a great Monday morning QB, you are the same kind of person who can predict the stock market if he lived a day ahead of everyone else.

Sweet Jeebus, quit being a tool. I really don't understand what's so difficult to understand. I'm simply saying I agree with koya and prefontaine - college and high school stats don't tell you whether a guy will or won't be successful in the NFL. Great numbers >< great player.The pedigree (spot they were drafted) is often a reasonable indicator but different people have different thoughts on players. Some people didn't believe in Matt Ryan. It appears they were wrong. Some people DID believe in Alex Smith. Everybody gets some predictions right and some predictions wrong, even the scouts. Some people didn't think Benson's play would translate to the pros. I have no doubt they were wrong in more predictions than they were right, but that doesn't mean they were incorrect in that one instance.Your homerism is leaving you unable to open your eyes to a perfectly reasonable point of view.ETA - NOBODY has said Benson or others were not beastly in college. In fact, you may want to re-read the posts, because prefontaine even said Dayne and others DOMINATED college. Koya said he saw great numbers but not great play.

 

[thehornet]

Hightower to start Week #1

BTW, is this news, or is this a guess? Cause I can't find that news anywhere.

Sportsline is reporting it in their rapid reports:http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/1277423

Not sure how reliable that is.

I'll listen to the coach. Looks like Beanie may play his way in to the starting lineup much qicker than originally expected. This article also states that Wells will be involved in passing. Very good news.......http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/...swells0902.html

 

[DoubleG]

Sweet Jeebus, quit being a tool.

I really don't understand what's so difficult to understand. I'm simply saying I agree with koya and prefontaine - college and high school stats don't tell you whether a guy will or won't be successful in the NFL. Great numbers >< great player.

The pedigree (spot they were drafted) is often a reasonable indicator but different people have different thoughts on players. Some people didn't believe in Matt Ryan. It appears they were wrong. Some people DID believe in Alex Smith. Everybody gets some predictions right and some predictions wrong, even the scouts.

Some people didn't think Benson's play would translate to the pros. I have no doubt they were wrong in more predictions than they were right, but that doesn't mean they were incorrect in that one instance.

Your homerism is leaving you unable to open your eyes to a perfectly reasonable point of view.

ETA - NOBODY has said Benson or others were not beastly in college. In fact, you may want to re-read the posts, because prefontaine even said Dayne and others DOMINATED college. Koya said he saw great numbers but not great play.

Actually, not even that is always helpful. We could go down a laundry list of guys who outperformed players at the same position who were drafted in the same draft several rounds earlier, not to mention guys who weren't even drafted at all (Priest Holmes, anyone?) and had great NFL (and FF) careers. The point, imho, is that if NFL scouts, who have more time and get paid alot more money than we do, bust, miss on guys and pass on superior talent - then we need to go easy on assuming that our rational is always going to be solid (or even close). For every Priest Holmes or Marques Colston, there's a Ryan Leaf or Cedric Benson.

 

[kremenull]

"breakaway speed" is the most overrated skill for a rb. balance, strenght, vision are all far more important. turning a 0 yd gain into a 4 yd gain repeatedly is more important than the few times a rb gets a step on the defense and takes it all the way. mainly bc the short gains happen far far far more often.

some rbs without "breakaway speed." edge after his knee injury. portis the last few years. emmit smith. curtis martin.

when comparing wells to tim freakin hightower i think the last aspect we should count against wells is breakaway speed.

fwiw, the player wells most reminds me off is larry johnson.

Well, when people project him for 4.7 yards per carry, he either needs to have breakaway speed to break off some long runs or an exceptional run blocking OL. He has neither. He also doesn't have exceptional balance, quickness, strength or vision. He's good in all those areas, but he is not exceptional in any of them. That means he's a RB highly dependent on his situation.

Even if you believe that this (bolded) statement is true, tell me what is there not to like about his situation? Run-blocking is one of the easiest tasks for o-linemen to do. If you don't know this, then you don't know much about football. Bad o-lines are usually bad because they can't pass block adequately, not due to run blocking. If teams aren't very good in run blocking, then they either have very poor coaching as the #1 factor, or as a secondary consideration, a lack of talent most likely due to injuries taking down their starters and testing their depth along the line. I don't know if you've ever heard of Russ Grimm, but in case you haven't, o-line coaching will not be the problem for AZ. Additionally, do you also understand the type of space (i.e., running lanes) that Beanie will enjoy due to the fact that AZ has an ultra-dynamic passing attack? Personally, I know that these are glaring facts regarding his situation that tip the scales heavily towards the 'positive' side for Beanie, and it appears that your analysis has not given these facts consideration. If you think that Beanie Wells was just 'AVERAGE', as you put it, in his debut. Then yes, I'd also have to say that you don't have a good read on running back talent. My analysis and evaluations have been done well before any preseason action, and Wells' debut only solidified my original thinking and projection. And yes, I am the guy who projects 4.7 per carry.

And on the topic of breakaway speed, if he didn't have it before, Wells has it now. If you don't understand what better training and conditioning resulting in a lighter, leaner, frame can do for a RB of his ability, then just sit back and watch as it will be illustrated to you and all of the other non-believers.

I've already bought my ticket, sometime you gotta know and trust what you see.......before it happens.

 

[dschuler]

Yes, stats are what matters. But we're not talking NFL stats. As he pointed out, high school and college stats have not always been an accurate way to predict success in the NFL. I think your Texas homerism clouded your interpetation and you took things the wrong way.

Yeah let me guess. There wasn't one good trait you saw in Cedric Benson that would translate good into the pros. So him going 4th in the draft was just a complete surprise to you as well. You must know something general managers, scouts, and the Mel Kiper's of the world don't, although they get paid for it and you don't. To not think Benson was a college stud or Ron Dayne or any of the other college players he listed is idiotic. I am not saying high school stats translate into the pros, but saying someone wasn't beastly in college when he won the Doak Walker and finished 6th all time in rushing is ludicrous. Such a great Monday morning QB, you are the same kind of person who can predict the stock market if he lived a day ahead of everyone else.

Did you even read what he wrote??It's pretty easy to see that Benson's beastly college stats did not translate to the NFL, why are you arguing this? Ron Dayne was the top rusher yardage wise in college, how did that work out for him in the pros?

I'm not saying that great college numbers translate into being a great pro. If you would actually read these posts instead of just glance and take a couple things out of them then maybe you would understand that. He said Benson did not have the talent in college that translated to the pros, which was BS. That is it. Cedric Benson was great in college and so was Ron Dayne. If he disagrees, then the numbers would back that up which is why I showed that Benson's numbers dominated Well's numbers in college. I and every other person who watches football knows that college numbers don't translate into pro numbers.

 

[dparker713]

"breakaway speed" is the most overrated skill for a rb. balance, strenght, vision are all far more important. turning a 0 yd gain into a 4 yd gain repeatedly is more important than the few times a rb gets a step on the defense and takes it all the way. mainly bc the short gains happen far far far more often.

some rbs without "breakaway speed." edge after his knee injury. portis the last few years. emmit smith. curtis martin.

when comparing wells to tim freakin hightower i think the last aspect we should count against wells is breakaway speed.

fwiw, the player wells most reminds me off is larry johnson.

Well, when people project him for 4.7 yards per carry, he either needs to have breakaway speed to break off some long runs or an exceptional run blocking OL. He has neither. He also doesn't have exceptional balance, quickness, strength or vision. He's good in all those areas, but he is not exceptional in any of them. That means he's a RB highly dependent on his situation.

Even if you believe that this (bolded) statement is true, tell me what is there not to like about his situation? Run-blocking is one of the easiest tasks for o-linemen to do. If you don't know this, then you don't know much about football. Bad o-lines are usually bad because they can't pass block adequately, not due to run blocking. If teams aren't very good in run blocking, then they either have very poor coaching as the #1 factor, or as a secondary consideration, a lack of talent most likely due to injuries taking down their starters and testing their depth along the line. I don't know if you've ever heard of Russ Grimm, but in case you haven't, o-line coaching will not be the problem for AZ. Additionally, do you also understand the type of space (i.e., running lanes) that Beanie will enjoy due to the fact that AZ has an ultra-dynamic passing attack? Personally, I know that these are glaring facts regarding his situation that tip the scales heavily towards the 'positive' side for Beanie, and it appears that your analysis has not given these facts consideration. If you think that Beanie Wells was just 'AVERAGE', as you put it, in his debut. Then yes, I'd also have to say that you don't have a good read on running back talent. My analysis and evaluations have been done well before any preseason action, and Wells' debut only solidified my original thinking and projection. And yes, I am the guy who projects 4.7 per carry.

And on the topic of breakaway speed, if he didn't have it before, Wells has it now. If you don't understand what better training and conditioning resulting in a lighter, leaner, frame can do for a RB of his ability, then just sit back and watch as it will be illustrated to you and all of the other non-believers.

I've already bought my ticket, sometime you gotta know and trust what you see.......before it happens.

Wow, so many inaccuracies, I'll try to address them all.Run blocking at the NFL level is not an easy task. Very few teams just try to push hat on hat, and even if you do, technique, leverage and footwork are very important. Certain players and certain lines have skill sets that translate into better pass protection than run blocking. Additionally, when teams focus on the passing game, their run blocking offen suffers due to a lack of game speed reps.

Russ Grimm and Whisenhunt are entering their third year in AZ. Since they replaced the C last year and will have the same line this year. The only significant difference between this year and last year for the OL is that Grimm got promoted to co-coordinator with the WR coach, but they're unlikely to suddenly become a run heavy team with the best WR tandem in the league, a QB they just signed to a lucrative two year extension and a team that almost won the Super Bowl. This is nearly the same situation as last year and the year before when the AZ running game was anemic. Yet somehow, with all these things the same the situation for Wells will magically become a positive?

You might want to take a reading comprehension class. I said an average starting RB. My evaluations are never done, more data allows for a better estimation of a player's true talent level.

I saw quicker feet than he had in college, likely due to the weight loss. Still not exceptional, but an improvement none the less. As for the breakaway speed, there was nothing on that tape to show a faster top gear. It may be there, but he did not have an opportunity to show it in that game.

You are right about one thing. I am a non-believer. Im a skeptic. I don't take things on faith or other people's evaluations. I trust my own eyes and my own evaluations. And nothing I've seen makes me like Wells as a borderline RB1.

 

[Ilov80s]

Yes, stats are what matters. But we're not talking NFL stats. As he pointed out, high school and college stats have not always been an accurate way to predict success in the NFL. I think your Texas homerism clouded your interpetation and you took things the wrong way.

Yeah let me guess. There wasn't one good trait you saw in Cedric Benson that would translate good into the pros. So him going 4th in the draft was just a complete surprise to you as well. You must know something general managers, scouts, and the Mel Kiper's of the world don't, although they get paid for it and you don't. To not think Benson was a college stud or Ron Dayne or any of the other college players he listed is idiotic. I am not saying high school stats translate into the pros, but saying someone wasn't beastly in college when he won the Doak Walker and finished 6th all time in rushing is ludicrous. Such a great Monday morning QB, you are the same kind of person who can predict the stock market if he lived a day ahead of everyone else.

Did you even read what he wrote??It's pretty easy to see that Benson's beastly college stats did not translate to the NFL, why are you arguing this? Ron Dayne was the top rusher yardage wise in college, how did that work out for him in the pros?

I'm not saying that great college numbers translate into being a great pro. If you would actually read these posts instead of just glance and take a couple things out of them then maybe you would understand that. He said Benson did not have the talent in college that translated to the pros, which was BS. That is it. Cedric Benson was great in college and so was Ron Dayne. If he disagrees, then the numbers would back that up which is why I showed that Benson's numbers dominated Well's numbers in college. I and every other person who watches football knows that college numbers don't translate into pro numbers.

The thing is nearly every college RB drafted in the first few rounds has amazing college numbers. Donald Brown ran for 2,000+ yards and 18 TDs as a junior. In just 2 years, LeSean 2,800 yards and 35 TDs. Green ran for 1800 yards at 6.0 ypc and 20 tds last year. Ringer ran for 3,000 yards and 26 TDs his last 2 years at MSU. Sure Benson and Dayne are the all time leading rushers, but a lot of it was due to a superior situation: being able to start for 4 years on an elite high scoring program. If LeSean McCoy started 4 years at Pitt, he could easily go for 6000+ yards and threaten Dayne's rushing TD record of 72. When dealing with college backs, I think its more important to look at their skills and how they get their yards. Good blocking/playcalling or using vision to find space? Do they make guys miss in the openfield? Can they run through contact? When they get tackled, do they move forward or backward? To me, that stuff is much more important than stats.

 

[thehornet]

"breakaway speed" is the most overrated skill for a rb. balance, strenght, vision are all far more important. turning a 0 yd gain into a 4 yd gain repeatedly is more important than the few times a rb gets a step on the defense and takes it all the way. mainly bc the short gains happen far far far more often.

some rbs without "breakaway speed." edge after his knee injury. portis the last few years. emmit smith. curtis martin.

when comparing wells to tim freakin hightower i think the last aspect we should count against wells is breakaway speed.

fwiw, the player wells most reminds me off is larry johnson.

Well, when people project him for 4.7 yards per carry, he either needs to have breakaway speed to break off some long runs or an exceptional run blocking OL. He has neither. He also doesn't have exceptional balance, quickness, strength or vision. He's good in all those areas, but he is not exceptional in any of them. That means he's a RB highly dependent on his situation.

Even if you believe that this (bolded) statement is true, tell me what is there not to like about his situation? Run-blocking is one of the easiest tasks for o-linemen to do. If you don't know this, then you don't know much about football. Bad o-lines are usually bad because they can't pass block adequately, not due to run blocking. If teams aren't very good in run blocking, then they either have very poor coaching as the #1 factor, or as a secondary consideration, a lack of talent most likely due to injuries taking down their starters and testing their depth along the line. I don't know if you've ever heard of Russ Grimm, but in case you haven't, o-line coaching will not be the problem for AZ. Additionally, do you also understand the type of space (i.e., running lanes) that Beanie will enjoy due to the fact that AZ has an ultra-dynamic passing attack? Personally, I know that these are glaring facts regarding his situation that tip the scales heavily towards the 'positive' side for Beanie, and it appears that your analysis has not given these facts consideration. If you think that Beanie Wells was just 'AVERAGE', as you put it, in his debut. Then yes, I'd also have to say that you don't have a good read on running back talent. My analysis and evaluations have been done well before any preseason action, and Wells' debut only solidified my original thinking and projection. And yes, I am the guy who projects 4.7 per carry.

And on the topic of breakaway speed, if he didn't have it before, Wells has it now. If you don't understand what better training and conditioning resulting in a lighter, leaner, frame can do for a RB of his ability, then just sit back and watch as it will be illustrated to you and all of the other non-believers.

I've already bought my ticket, sometime you gotta know and trust what you see.......before it happens.

Wow, so many inaccuracies, I'll try to address them all.Run blocking at the NFL level is not an easy task. Very few teams just try to push hat on hat, and even if you do, technique, leverage and footwork are very important. Certain players and certain lines have skill sets that translate into better pass protection than run blocking. Additionally, when teams focus on the passing game, their run blocking offen suffers due to a lack of game speed reps.

Russ Grimm and Whisenhunt are entering their third year in AZ. Since they replaced the C last year and will have the same line this year. The only significant difference between this year and last year for the OL is that Grimm got promoted to co-coordinator with the WR coach, but they're unlikely to suddenly become a run heavy team with the best WR tandem in the league, a QB they just signed to a lucrative two year extension and a team that almost won the Super Bowl. This is nearly the same situation as last year and the year before when the AZ running game was anemic. Yet somehow, with all these things the same the situation for Wells will magically become a positive?

You might want to take a reading comprehension class. I said an average starting RB. My evaluations are never done, more data allows for a better estimation of a player's true talent level.

I saw quicker feet than he had in college, likely due to the weight loss. Still not exceptional, but an improvement none the less. As for the breakaway speed, there was nothing on that tape to show a faster top gear. It may be there, but he did not have an opportunity to show it in that game.

You are right about one thing. I am a non-believer. Im a skeptic. I don't take things on faith or other people's evaluations. I trust my own eyes and my own evaluations. And nothing I've seen makes me like Wells as a borderline RB1.

Classic response. Your entire response leaves open the possibility that if he does succeed, then your analysis is always a work in progress. What a joke.