Player Spotlight: Ronnie Brown (1 Viewer)

[brutha]

How much does Patrick Cobbs and Pat White figure in along with Ricky Williams. Even after Ronnie looked dominant early in season, Sparano wasnt giving him full time work weeks 7-16.

of course nothe's too fragile, and that's why he'll never be on my team.

 

[BuckeyeArt]

So basically you can't stand what he did in a year when he was not supposed to do much. Before he got hurt he was by far the #1 rb in fantasy football on a team that finished 1-15. And is it not RB glory years 27-30, with the fall off happening just after 30? He has shown what he can do without a great line, now he is supposed to do less with a very formidable one. Pat White may just be the QB of the wild cat, Brown will be the main back. Why can't people understand they took it easy on the guy coming back from a injury. Contract year, featured runner, capable reciever. 275-1180-9/40-300-3. And that is with the phins finishing under 500.

Give it a rest.....in that 7 game span.....he had four 100 yard games vs the Jets, Raiders, Houston, and Browns.....hardly even average defenses at the time. In the other 3 contests he ran for 142 yards with no TD's vs Wash, Dal, and NE.

Does your league not give points for receiving yards? He had 72 total yards against Washington, 69 against Dallas, and 109 against NE (in 2 1/2 quarters). So, 250 total yards in less than 3 full games against three top 10 defenses. What do you expect? 69 yards was his lowest total.For comparison, Williams had less than 69 total yards in 4 of his first 7 games last year. Turner, also 4 of his first 7. T Jones had 2. Forte had 1. The great AP had 1. MJD had 5 in his first 7. Slaton had 3, Westbrook had 2, Portis had none, and Johnson had 1. Those were the top 10 RBs in our leagues last year. Other than Portis, they all had more duds in their first 7 last year than Brown did in 2007.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

I do not care how he gets his points. He gets them. 4out of 7 games 100 yrds. So that translates to 9 in 16. Hmm I wouls take that. he had 172pts after that 7 games. His lowest point total was 8. He had 14 points against the said Patriots, but no 100 yds. That projects to just under 30 pts a game(28). So he can basically win me 8 games a year and not kill me in the weeks he don't break 100 yds. Turner last year only had 8 100yd plus games, and that means 8 games under, and 7 games without a TD. Against the Saints twice he failed. But I would take his numbers easily. And that 172 would have been #! after 7 weeks last year as well. Not saying he will repeat that but he will jump clearly ahead of what he did last year.

lol.... so he would've played the raiders, houston, and the browns twice the rest of the season? You can't calculate numbers like that.....if you did Ryan Grant would've been the #1 pick in last years draft b/c of his "great 2nd half"....and we all saw what happened last year.He has had 1,000 yards in a season once in his 4 year career...and that was 1008. Name a starting RB that broke out in his 5th season....maybe Thomas Jones(but he didn't start this many games in his career....as Ronnie has).

Things working against Ronnie:

He has NEVER consistantly put up great numbers.

He splits his numbers with Ricky Williams and Cobbs.

Wildcat will go to Pat White this year(sorry no blow up 4 TD game this year)

Weak armed Pennington won't keep safteys deep.

I am told that there's this cat named Curtis Martin. Apparently, he had some awfully nice seasons from the RB position while "weak armed Pennington" was struggling to keep safeties deep.This argument that his weak arm affects the running game is so overblown. There is absolutely no reason to believe that there is even an iota of validity in that argument, and Curtis Martin really is the only 2 words needed to debunk that statement.

Tom Brady has a big arm. Havent see a stud in that backfield since Corey Dillon retired - and stud is a stretch for Dillon. Dan Marino had a great arm. Didnt produce a single pro-bowl running back. Meanwhile, the top 3 RBs off the board in many drafts will be ADP, MJD, and Turner. 2 of them have non-descript QBs, and one has a 2nd year QB who threw for 15 TDs last year. Not exactly guys that are keeping safeties up at night. DeAngelo Williams had a heck of a season with Jake Delhomme coming off Tommy John - so did J. Stewart. Matt Forte had a monster year with Kyle Orton at the helm.

How many big armed QBs produced RB1s last year? Warner? Manning? Jamarcus? Rodgers? Cutler?

You can argue all day that you dont think Ronnie is talented enough or durable enough to be a reliable weekly starter - but dont blame it on Pennington's arm. That argument is spent.

 

[gianmarco]

Brown is definitely one of the more polarizing backs in the game, especially this year. You either love him and his talent or want no part of him. I guess I'd fall into the later half...is he talented? Yeah but I don't think he's as talented as a lot of people think he is. Is he durable? Not at all. Is he the workhorse? Doubtful. Is he on a good offense? No. Is the wildcat going to catch people by surprise? No.

Brown in 4 years has run for 1000+ yards once...ONCE with a whopping 1008 yards. It's always something with him and while I argued against him big time a couple years ago when he was ranked 5th, now being ranked around 15th (higher than he's ever finished) is closer to where he should be.

If everything breaks right...i.e. he doesn't get hurt (which he's never proven), he doesn't share significant time with Williams (if it ain't broke, don't fix it), the line improves, the wildcat is still effective, etc. he's got some upside but chances are something won't fall into place....

245-1041-7 33-250-1

You just gave him 1300 yards and 8 TDs and said that you fall into the "want no part of him" category. High standards?

that puts him around the #18 RB... I never say never on any player because at some point they are attractive but I just feel that someone would definitely like him more than I do. I was more vehemently against him years ago when he was ranked top 5 because I felt he did nothing to warrant that, now that his price is rounds cheaper he's not the risk he once was. I guess I should change the "want no part of him" to "I'm not a Brown believer" like so many seem to be. He's the RB version of Roy Williams.

Both of these are . It's as if I wrote that myself as it's EXACTLY how I feel. The last line is the epitome of Ronnie Brown (and Roy). Thanks for saving me the time for having to post.

 

[RoyDubb]

Brown is definitely one of the more polarizing backs in the game, especially this year. You either love him and his talent or want no part of him. I guess I'd fall into the later half...is he talented? Yeah but I don't think he's as talented as a lot of people think he is. Is he durable? Not at all. Is he the workhorse? Doubtful. Is he on a good offense? No. Is the wildcat going to catch people by surprise? No.

Brown in 4 years has run for 1000+ yards once...ONCE with a whopping 1008 yards. It's always something with him and while I argued against him big time a couple years ago when he was ranked 5th, now being ranked around 15th (higher than he's ever finished) is closer to where he should be.

If everything breaks right...i.e. he doesn't get hurt (which he's never proven), he doesn't share significant time with Williams (if it ain't broke, don't fix it), the line improves, the wildcat is still effective, etc. he's got some upside but chances are something won't fall into place....

245-1041-7 33-250-1

You just gave him 1300 yards and 8 TDs and said that you fall into the "want no part of him" category. High standards?

that puts him around the #18 RB... I never say never on any player because at some point they are attractive but I just feel that someone would definitely like him more than I do. I was more vehemently against him years ago when he was ranked top 5 because I felt he did nothing to warrant that, now that his price is rounds cheaper he's not the risk he once was. I guess I should change the "want no part of him" to "I'm not a Brown believer" like so many seem to be. He's the RB version of Roy Williams.

Both of these are . It's as if I wrote that myself as it's EXACTLY how I feel. The last line is the epitome of Ronnie Brown (and Roy). Thanks for saving me the time for having to post.

we'll just have to wait a year to see who's right. Ronnie Brown and Roy Williams are the 2 biggest bargains in 2009 !!!!

 

[gianmarco]

Brown is definitely one of the more polarizing backs in the game, especially this year. You either love him and his talent or want no part of him. I guess I'd fall into the later half...is he talented? Yeah but I don't think he's as talented as a lot of people think he is. Is he durable? Not at all. Is he the workhorse? Doubtful. Is he on a good offense? No. Is the wildcat going to catch people by surprise? No.

Brown in 4 years has run for 1000+ yards once...ONCE with a whopping 1008 yards. It's always something with him and while I argued against him big time a couple years ago when he was ranked 5th, now being ranked around 15th (higher than he's ever finished) is closer to where he should be.

If everything breaks right...i.e. he doesn't get hurt (which he's never proven), he doesn't share significant time with Williams (if it ain't broke, don't fix it), the line improves, the wildcat is still effective, etc. he's got some upside but chances are something won't fall into place....

245-1041-7 33-250-1

You just gave him 1300 yards and 8 TDs and said that you fall into the "want no part of him" category. High standards?

that puts him around the #18 RB... I never say never on any player because at some point they are attractive but I just feel that someone would definitely like him more than I do. I was more vehemently against him years ago when he was ranked top 5 because I felt he did nothing to warrant that, now that his price is rounds cheaper he's not the risk he once was. I guess I should change the "want no part of him" to "I'm not a Brown believer" like so many seem to be. He's the RB version of Roy Williams.

Both of these are . It's as if I wrote that myself as it's EXACTLY how I feel. The last line is the epitome of Ronnie Brown (and Roy). Thanks for saving me the time for having to post.

we'll just have to wait a year to see who's right. Ronnie Brown and Roy Williams are the 2 biggest bargains in 2009 !!!!

Even if it finally comes together this year, being right once in 5 years isn't something I'd be thrilled about. They've each had their brief moments but neither of them has ever lived up to their hype/draft position with the exception of Roy's one magical year. And even that was only good for WR10. As Banger stated, I do agree that Ronnie's ADP is now much closer to his value and I would at least consider him this year because of that. I don't dislike the guy, I just think his true value has always been considerably lower than his perceived value. Same goes for Roy. Amazingly enough, there are STILL people who view Roy as a top 10-15 WR.

 

[RoyDubb]

not all the guys pimpin Ronnie and Roy have owned him the last few years. Never owned any Brown in any redrafts or dynasty for the last 4 years, but this year, I'M LOADED with Ronnie in both dynasty and early redrafts.....

 

[kremenull]

not all the guys pimpin Ronnie and Roy have owned him the last few years. Never owned any Brown in any redrafts or dynasty for the last 4 years, but this year, I'M LOADED with Ronnie in both dynasty and early redrafts.....

Gotta have a "feel" for when a talented guy is going to break out for a career year. It's now or never for Ronnie. I'm banking it's now as well......Top 5 in PPR.....BOOK IT!

 

[two_dollars]

You don't get value on a guy AFTER he breaks out..

 

[gianmarco]

You don't get value on a guy AFTER he breaks out..

You also don't get value on a guy waiting on him to break out for 3-4 years.

 

[puckalicious]

I do not care how he gets his points. He gets them. 4out of 7 games 100 yrds. So that translates to 9 in 16. Hmm I wouls take that. he had 172pts after that 7 games. His lowest point total was 8. He had 14 points against the said Patriots, but no 100 yds. That projects to just under 30 pts a game(28). So he can basically win me 8 games a year and not kill me in the weeks he don't break 100 yds. Turner last year only had 8 100yd plus games, and that means 8 games under, and 7 games without a TD. Against the Saints twice he failed. But I would take his numbers easily. And that 172 would have been #! after 7 weeks last year as well. Not saying he will repeat that but he will jump clearly ahead of what he did last year.

lol.... so he would've played the raiders, houston, and the browns twice the rest of the season? You can't calculate numbers like that.....if you did Ryan Grant would've been the #1 pick in last years draft b/c of his "great 2nd half"....and we all saw what happened last year.He has had 1,000 yards in a season once in his 4 year career...and that was 1008. Name a starting RB that broke out in his 5th season....maybe Thomas Jones(but he didn't start this many games in his career....as Ronnie has).

Things working against Ronnie:

He has NEVER consistantly put up great numbers.

He splits his numbers with Ricky Williams and Cobbs.

Wildcat will go to Pat White this year(sorry no blow up 4 TD game this year)

Weak armed Pennington won't keep safteys deep.

I am told that there's this cat named Curtis Martin. Apparently, he had some awfully nice seasons from the RB position while "weak armed Pennington" was struggling to keep safeties deep.This argument that his weak arm affects the running game is so overblown. There is absolutely no reason to believe that there is even an iota of validity in that argument, and Curtis Martin really is the only 2 words needed to debunk that statement.

Tom Brady has a big arm. Havent see a stud in that backfield since Corey Dillon retired - and stud is a stretch for Dillon. Dan Marino had a great arm. Didnt produce a single pro-bowl running back. Meanwhile, the top 3 RBs off the board in many drafts will be ADP, MJD, and Turner. 2 of them have non-descript QBs, and one has a 2nd year QB who threw for 15 TDs last year. Not exactly guys that are keeping safeties up at night. DeAngelo Williams had a heck of a season with Jake Delhomme coming off Tommy John - so did J. Stewart. Matt Forte had a monster year with Kyle Orton at the helm.

How many big armed QBs produced RB1s last year? Warner? Manning? Jamarcus? Rodgers? Cutler?

You can argue all day that you dont think Ronnie is talented enough or durable enough to be a reliable weekly starter - but dont blame it on Pennington's arm. That argument is spent.

Not , :greatposting:

 

[two_dollars]

The more Ronnie Brown footage I watch, the more it's obvious that physically, he is a man among boys in the NFL. Very similar to Larry Johnson in size and speed before LJ got wore down and lost his line. The biggest difference between the 2 though, is that Ronnie Brown has no mean streak. If Ronnie ever got pissed off enough to play over 100%, he'd be near unstoppable. I personally feel that's why he has been injured so often. Players that go at less than 100% are more likely to to get hurt. (not saying that's the only way players get hurt). We'll see this year if playing for money is enough to light that fire under his ###.

 

[swirvenirvin]

Well based on this thread he won't be on any of my teams this year.

This is him playing in 15 games

203 carries 850 yards 7 TD 33 receptions 280 yards 1 TD = 161 points

And I'm fine with that but I don't think I would take him in the 3rd round.

 

[tdmills]

I do not care how he gets his points. He gets them. 4out of 7 games 100 yrds. So that translates to 9 in 16. Hmm I wouls take that. he had 172pts after that 7 games. His lowest point total was 8. He had 14 points against the said Patriots, but no 100 yds. That projects to just under 30 pts a game(28). So he can basically win me 8 games a year and not kill me in the weeks he don't break 100 yds. Turner last year only had 8 100yd plus games, and that means 8 games under, and 7 games without a TD. Against the Saints twice he failed. But I would take his numbers easily. And that 172 would have been #! after 7 weeks last year as well. Not saying he will repeat that but he will jump clearly ahead of what he did last year.

lol.... so he would've played the raiders, houston, and the browns twice the rest of the season? You can't calculate numbers like that.....if you did Ryan Grant would've been the #1 pick in last years draft b/c of his "great 2nd half"....and we all saw what happened last year.He has had 1,000 yards in a season once in his 4 year career...and that was 1008. Name a starting RB that broke out in his 5th season....maybe Thomas Jones(but he didn't start this many games in his career....as Ronnie has).

Things working against Ronnie:

He has NEVER consistantly put up great numbers.

He splits his numbers with Ricky Williams and Cobbs.

Wildcat will go to Pat White this year(sorry no blow up 4 TD game this year)

Weak armed Pennington won't keep safteys deep.

I am told that there's this cat named Curtis Martin. Apparently, he had some awfully nice seasons from the RB position while "weak armed Pennington" was struggling to keep safeties deep.This argument that his weak arm affects the running game is so overblown. There is absolutely no reason to believe that there is even an iota of validity in that argument, and Curtis Martin really is the only 2 words needed to debunk that statement.

Tom Brady has a big arm. Havent see a stud in that backfield since Corey Dillon retired - and stud is a stretch for Dillon. Dan Marino had a great arm. Didnt produce a single pro-bowl running back. Meanwhile, the top 3 RBs off the board in many drafts will be ADP, MJD, and Turner. 2 of them have non-descript QBs, and one has a 2nd year QB who threw for 15 TDs last year. Not exactly guys that are keeping safeties up at night. DeAngelo Williams had a heck of a season with Jake Delhomme coming off Tommy John - so did J. Stewart. Matt Forte had a monster year with Kyle Orton at the helm.

How many big armed QBs produced RB1s last year? Warner? Manning? Jamarcus? Rodgers? Cutler?

You can argue all day that you dont think Ronnie is talented enough or durable enough to be a reliable weekly starter - but dont blame it on Pennington's arm. That argument is spent.

Pennington's arm was stronger earlier in his career. He also had a L. Coles and Cotchery to throw to for at least some of his career....while the Dolphins have Ginn? Big Differences.Tom Brady, Dan Marino play in spread offenses designed to pass more than run. The patriots use many different RB's, while Marino had....Sammie Smith.

ADP has an elite left side of the offensive line(yes better than Brown), MJD has Garrard who has a stronger arm and is a good QB....the line was just beaten to a pulp with injuries last year that was well documented, Turner has Roddy White to keep defenses honest....and Michael Jenkins.....much better than what the Phins have.

DeAngelo Williams/Stewart had Steve Smith who is an elite WR to keep D's honest.....they also have Moose. Both Wr's are better run blockers than the phins.

Matt Forte did well in FF last year b/c of his 60 receptions that are well documented...if he does poorly this year running the football(worse than last year)....then come back to me with the arguement that a strong armed QB doesn't help.

Ah yes Kurt Warner with a 30 year old RB and a late round draft pick.

Manning was injured and the whole offense got worse.....I believe this shows the QB does matter....see Addai the year before.

Jamarcus is young(I don't like him) but they still averaged over 4.0 yards per carry....just spread it out to 3 guys.

Rodgers runs a very pass happy offense and Grant did ok last year despite being injured and missing camp.

Cutler had like 7 RB's on the IR....really weak arguement here.

So in your eyes the arm strength of the QB has NO factor in the effectiveness of the run game?

 

[ChuckLiddell]

I do not care how he gets his points. He gets them. 4out of 7 games 100 yrds. So that translates to 9 in 16. Hmm I wouls take that. he had 172pts after that 7 games. His lowest point total was 8. He had 14 points against the said Patriots, but no 100 yds. That projects to just under 30 pts a game(28). So he can basically win me 8 games a year and not kill me in the weeks he don't break 100 yds. Turner last year only had 8 100yd plus games, and that means 8 games under, and 7 games without a TD. Against the Saints twice he failed. But I would take his numbers easily. And that 172 would have been #! after 7 weeks last year as well. Not saying he will repeat that but he will jump clearly ahead of what he did last year.

lol.... so he would've played the raiders, houston, and the browns twice the rest of the season? You can't calculate numbers like that.....if you did Ryan Grant would've been the #1 pick in last years draft b/c of his "great 2nd half"....and we all saw what happened last year.He has had 1,000 yards in a season once in his 4 year career...and that was 1008. Name a starting RB that broke out in his 5th season....maybe Thomas Jones(but he didn't start this many games in his career....as Ronnie has).

Things working against Ronnie:

He has NEVER consistantly put up great numbers.

He splits his numbers with Ricky Williams and Cobbs.

Wildcat will go to Pat White this year(sorry no blow up 4 TD game this year)

Weak armed Pennington won't keep safteys deep.

I am told that there's this cat named Curtis Martin. Apparently, he had some awfully nice seasons from the RB position while "weak armed Pennington" was struggling to keep safeties deep.This argument that his weak arm affects the running game is so overblown. There is absolutely no reason to believe that there is even an iota of validity in that argument, and Curtis Martin really is the only 2 words needed to debunk that statement.

Tom Brady has a big arm. Havent see a stud in that backfield since Corey Dillon retired - and stud is a stretch for Dillon. Dan Marino had a great arm. Didnt produce a single pro-bowl running back. Meanwhile, the top 3 RBs off the board in many drafts will be ADP, MJD, and Turner. 2 of them have non-descript QBs, and one has a 2nd year QB who threw for 15 TDs last year. Not exactly guys that are keeping safeties up at night. DeAngelo Williams had a heck of a season with Jake Delhomme coming off Tommy John - so did J. Stewart. Matt Forte had a monster year with Kyle Orton at the helm.

How many big armed QBs produced RB1s last year? Warner? Manning? Jamarcus? Rodgers? Cutler?

You can argue all day that you dont think Ronnie is talented enough or durable enough to be a reliable weekly starter - but dont blame it on Pennington's arm. That argument is spent.

Pennington's arm was stronger earlier in his career. He also had a L. Coles and Cotchery to throw to for at least some of his career....while the Dolphins have Ginn? Big Differences.Tom Brady, Dan Marino play in spread offenses designed to pass more than run. The patriots use many different RB's, while Marino had....Sammie Smith.

ADP has an elite left side of the offensive line(yes better than Brown), MJD has Garrard who has a stronger arm and is a good QB....the line was just beaten to a pulp with injuries last year that was well documented, Turner has Roddy White to keep defenses honest....and Michael Jenkins.....much better than what the Phins have.

DeAngelo Williams/Stewart had Steve Smith who is an elite WR to keep D's honest.....they also have Moose. Both Wr's are better run blockers than the phins.

Matt Forte did well in FF last year b/c of his 60 receptions that are well documented...if he does poorly this year running the football(worse than last year)....then come back to me with the arguement that a strong armed QB doesn't help.

Ah yes Kurt Warner with a 30 year old RB and a late round draft pick.

Manning was injured and the whole offense got worse.....I believe this shows the QB does matter....see Addai the year before.

Jamarcus is young(I don't like him) but they still averaged over 4.0 yards per carry....just spread it out to 3 guys.

Rodgers runs a very pass happy offense and Grant did ok last year despite being injured and missing camp.

Cutler had like 7 RB's on the IR....really weak arguement here.

So in your eyes the arm strength of the QB has NO factor in the effectiveness of the run game?

I dont know. I think it depends upon whether the QB lacking a strong arm has other characteristics that will keep a defense honest - like elite accuracy on short and intermediate routes, and brains. If the safeties cheat up against a QB that is accurate and smart, they will get burned despite his arm strength - so they can't. You made a good point regarding Cutler's 7 RBs on IR, but the other arguments dont convince me that a strong armed QB is all that vital to a RBs success. Who was throwing the ball during Walter Payton's years? Jim McMahon for part of them, but who else? Did McMahon throw a fearsome deep ball (not being a jerk - dont really know)? Bob Griese didnt scare any safeties with his deep ball, yet the Fins had 3 RBs in the early 70's that were dominant. They only threw like 14 passes a game. I realize the game has changed, but still.

The arguments about Steve Smith and Roddy White are a totally different discussion. Neither of those guys can throw deeper than Pennington. If you want to argue that the Fins lack an elite WR and that could hurt Ronnie, than make that the argument.

I am not saying that a strong arm would not help a RB - just that I dont think it weighs all that heavily. An incompetent QB could hurt a RB badly, but Pennington is anything but incompetent. He is one of the 5 smartest QBs in the NFL, is a film room freak, and is one of the most accurate passers in NFL history (I think - I am not much of a stats guy).

 

[tdmills]

I do not care how he gets his points. He gets them. 4out of 7 games 100 yrds. So that translates to 9 in 16. Hmm I wouls take that. he had 172pts after that 7 games. His lowest point total was 8. He had 14 points against the said Patriots, but no 100 yds. That projects to just under 30 pts a game(28). So he can basically win me 8 games a year and not kill me in the weeks he don't break 100 yds. Turner last year only had 8 100yd plus games, and that means 8 games under, and 7 games without a TD. Against the Saints twice he failed. But I would take his numbers easily. And that 172 would have been #! after 7 weeks last year as well. Not saying he will repeat that but he will jump clearly ahead of what he did last year.

lol.... so he would've played the raiders, houston, and the browns twice the rest of the season? You can't calculate numbers like that.....if you did Ryan Grant would've been the #1 pick in last years draft b/c of his "great 2nd half"....and we all saw what happened last year.He has had 1,000 yards in a season once in his 4 year career...and that was 1008. Name a starting RB that broke out in his 5th season....maybe Thomas Jones(but he didn't start this many games in his career....as Ronnie has).

Things working against Ronnie:

He has NEVER consistantly put up great numbers.

He splits his numbers with Ricky Williams and Cobbs.

Wildcat will go to Pat White this year(sorry no blow up 4 TD game this year)

Weak armed Pennington won't keep safteys deep.

I am told that there's this cat named Curtis Martin. Apparently, he had some awfully nice seasons from the RB position while "weak armed Pennington" was struggling to keep safeties deep.This argument that his weak arm affects the running game is so overblown. There is absolutely no reason to believe that there is even an iota of validity in that argument, and Curtis Martin really is the only 2 words needed to debunk that statement.

Tom Brady has a big arm. Havent see a stud in that backfield since Corey Dillon retired - and stud is a stretch for Dillon. Dan Marino had a great arm. Didnt produce a single pro-bowl running back. Meanwhile, the top 3 RBs off the board in many drafts will be ADP, MJD, and Turner. 2 of them have non-descript QBs, and one has a 2nd year QB who threw for 15 TDs last year. Not exactly guys that are keeping safeties up at night. DeAngelo Williams had a heck of a season with Jake Delhomme coming off Tommy John - so did J. Stewart. Matt Forte had a monster year with Kyle Orton at the helm.

How many big armed QBs produced RB1s last year? Warner? Manning? Jamarcus? Rodgers? Cutler?

You can argue all day that you dont think Ronnie is talented enough or durable enough to be a reliable weekly starter - but dont blame it on Pennington's arm. That argument is spent.

Pennington's arm was stronger earlier in his career. He also had a L. Coles and Cotchery to throw to for at least some of his career....while the Dolphins have Ginn? Big Differences.Tom Brady, Dan Marino play in spread offenses designed to pass more than run. The patriots use many different RB's, while Marino had....Sammie Smith.

ADP has an elite left side of the offensive line(yes better than Brown), MJD has Garrard who has a stronger arm and is a good QB....the line was just beaten to a pulp with injuries last year that was well documented, Turner has Roddy White to keep defenses honest....and Michael Jenkins.....much better than what the Phins have.

DeAngelo Williams/Stewart had Steve Smith who is an elite WR to keep D's honest.....they also have Moose. Both Wr's are better run blockers than the phins.

Matt Forte did well in FF last year b/c of his 60 receptions that are well documented...if he does poorly this year running the football(worse than last year)....then come back to me with the arguement that a strong armed QB doesn't help.

Ah yes Kurt Warner with a 30 year old RB and a late round draft pick.

Manning was injured and the whole offense got worse.....I believe this shows the QB does matter....see Addai the year before.

Jamarcus is young(I don't like him) but they still averaged over 4.0 yards per carry....just spread it out to 3 guys.

Rodgers runs a very pass happy offense and Grant did ok last year despite being injured and missing camp.

Cutler had like 7 RB's on the IR....really weak arguement here.

So in your eyes the arm strength of the QB has NO factor in the effectiveness of the run game?

I dont know. I think it depends upon whether the QB lacking a strong arm has other characteristics that will keep a defense honest - like elite accuracy on short and intermediate routes, and brains. If the safeties cheat up against a QB that is accurate and smart, they will get burned despite his arm strength - so they can't. You made a good point regarding Cutler's 7 RBs on IR, but the other arguments dont convince me that a strong armed QB is all that vital to a RBs success. Who was throwing the ball during Walter Payton's years? Jim McMahon for part of them, but who else? Did McMahon throw a fearsome deep ball (not being a jerk - dont really know)? Bob Griese didnt scare any safeties with his deep ball, yet the Fins had 3 RBs in the early 70's that were dominant. They only threw like 14 passes a game. I realize the game has changed, but still.

The arguments about Steve Smith and Roddy White are a totally different discussion. Neither of those guys can throw deeper than Pennington. If you want to argue that the Fins lack an elite WR and that could hurt Ronnie, than make that the argument.

I am not saying that a strong arm would not help a RB - just that I dont think it weighs all that heavily. An incompetent QB could hurt a RB badly, but Pennington is anything but incompetent. He is one of the 5 smartest QBs in the NFL, is a film room freak, and is one of the most accurate passers in NFL history (I think - I am not much of a stats guy).

I think we have several different topics going on here.1) Does the strength of QB's arm help a running game? I think it does....it prevents safteys from cheating up. Not just because of a deep ball, but because of the QB being able to throw it on a rope and the WR being able to turn and run quicker(I hope that made sense).

2) Does great downfield threats help the running game? I think they do....which the dolphins don't have. But Carolina did(smith currently injured), and roddy with atl.

3) Does a great QB make those WR's? We will see if rodgers can make jordy nelson and james jones good/great, will cutler make any of them great, will Rivers make those SD youngersters great(outside of a somewhat established vjax and an old chambers)....brees seems to do this with anyone.

4) Does the effectiveness and accuracy of the QB matter? I think this greatly matters. This is the difference between Pennington and saw JaMarcus Russell.

But back to the original on arm strength. I think it lets safteys creep up to the 10 yard shell on the hash vs the 12 yard shell on the hash. Doesn't seem like much.....but we know football is a game of inches and it will effect ronnie brown IMO.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

From tdmills...

I think we have several different topics going on here.

1) Does the strength of QB's arm help a running game? I think it does....it prevents safteys from cheating up. Not just because of a deep ball, but because of the QB being able to throw it on a rope and the WR being able to turn and run quicker(I hope that made sense).

2) Does great downfield threats help the running game? I think they do....which the dolphins don't have. But Carolina did(smith currently injured), and roddy with atl.

3) Does a great QB make those WR's? We will see if rodgers can make jordy nelson and james jones good/great, will cutler make any of them great, will Rivers make those SD youngersters great(outside of a somewhat established vjax and an old chambers)....brees seems to do this with anyone.

4) Does the effectiveness and accuracy of the QB matter? I think this greatly matters. This is the difference between Pennington and saw JaMarcus Russell.

But back to the original on arm strength. I think it lets safteys creep up to the 10 yard shell on the hash vs the 12 yard shell on the hash. Doesn't seem like much.....but we know football is a game of inches and it will effect ronnie brown IMO.

You make solid points. I still love Ronnie this season, but I hear your points, and I appreciate the way in which they have been presented.

 

[tdmills]

I think we have several different topics going on here.

1) Does the strength of QB's arm help a running game? I think it does....it prevents safteys from cheating up. Not just because of a deep ball, but because of the QB being able to throw it on a rope and the WR being able to turn and run quicker(I hope that made sense).

2) Does great downfield threats help the running game? I think they do....which the dolphins don't have. But Carolina did(smith currently injured), and roddy with atl.

3) Does a great QB make those WR's? We will see if rodgers can make jordy nelson and james jones good/great, will cutler make any of them great, will Rivers make those SD youngersters great(outside of a somewhat established vjax and an old chambers)....brees seems to do this with anyone.

4) Does the effectiveness and accuracy of the QB matter? I think this greatly matters. This is the difference between Pennington and saw JaMarcus Russell.

But back to the original on arm strength. I think it lets safteys creep up to the 10 yard shell on the hash vs the 12 yard shell on the hash. Doesn't seem like much.....but we know football is a game of inches and it will effect ronnie brown IMO.

You make solid points. I still love Ronnie this season, but I hear your points, and I appreciate the way in which they have been presented.

It was actually a nice insightful debate....without name calling or trash talking.....the shark pool needs more of these.

 

[gregjcross]

The more Ronnie Brown footage I watch, the more it's obvious that physically, he is a man among boys in the NFL. Very similar to Larry Johnson in size and speed before LJ got wore down and lost his line. The biggest difference between the 2 though, is that Ronnie Brown has no mean streak. If Ronnie ever got pissed off enough to play over 100%, he'd be near unstoppable. I personally feel that's why he has been injured so often. Players that go at less than 100% are more likely to to get hurt. (not saying that's the only way players get hurt). We'll see this year if playing for money is enough to light that fire under his ###.

He did get pissed in 2007, watch the tape he was blasting through defenders and had proven everyone wrong about his ability and willingness to mix it up. Then he busts his ACL tackling someone on an INT. Last year he was back and running strong again, but SParano doesnt trust him to feed it to him like you would a great back. Is it Ronnie's fault? Hard to say. Is he soft, no. But I just dont see Sparano changing his game plan to ride him like an Eric Dickerson, so hard to take him before round 4.

 

[Jercules]

What worries me about Brown is he doesn't seem to be the offensive centerpiece in Miami like a player of his supposed stature should be. I would kill for a single link to a training camp report that says he's tearing it up and is primed for a 300 carry season, but instead all you get is about Pat White and how much better the Wildcat is going to be. The one year Brown did put up huge numbers, in those 7 games, he was the centerpiece on a team with no other weapons worth using. I just don't see that happening in Miami this year, even if Ricky is spent.

The other thing to consider is Miami will very likely regress this year.

But of course, none of that means Brown won't be a productive player. I'd take last year and make it his floor, statistically.

 

[Banger]

What worries me about Brown is he doesn't seem to be the offensive centerpiece in Miami like a player of his supposed stature should be. I would kill for a single link to a training camp report that says he's tearing it up and is primed for a 300 carry season, but instead all you get is about Pat White and how much better the Wildcat is going to be. The one year Brown did put up huge numbers, in those 7 games, he was the centerpiece on a team with no other weapons worth using. I just don't see that happening in Miami this year, even if Ricky is spent.The other thing to consider is Miami will very likely regress this year.But of course, none of that means Brown won't be a productive player. I'd take last year and make it his floor, statistically.

Its funny I came in to post nearly the same thing. Is there any evidence, coachspeak, sideline reports, local messageboards, etc. that the workload arrangement that worked so well last year is going to change? That's one of my biggest hangups with his situation (that and he always gets hurt). The Brown supporters always seem to say "well he's a year away from his injury so now he's fully healthy and will get the carries", "he's in a contract year so they'll lean on him and make him the workhorse" or "he's much more talented the Ricky and will get the carries". I know his supporters are saying that but are the ones who really matter, the coaches, saying that?One thing I learned a while back is not to assume I know more than the coaches and to listen to the coaches, listen to the local reporters, training camp reports, local messageboards, etc.. Yes some of it is coachspeak and you have to weed it out but FFers often think situations SHOULD change (Maroney, Norwood, etc.) but the coaches have their reasons for utilizing the players in their way.

 

[Ray_T]

well, the thing about Brown is he is recovering from ACL surgery. Say what you want about it, but it takes at least a year and a half and in many cases 2 full years to recover from it.

Brown came back and was able to play last year, but he was clearly not as fast or strong and likely did not have the endurance. I think we will see a different Ronnie Brown this year. And With Ricky Williams a year older, he wont be sharing as many carries.

I'm not saying he will be the leagues leading rusher or anything, but I think to a degree you have to discount last season. I view last years production as the low end of what I would expect from him this year.

 

[BuckeyeArt]

What worries me about Brown is he doesn't seem to be the offensive centerpiece in Miami like a player of his supposed stature should be. I would kill for a single link to a training camp report that says he's tearing it up and is primed for a 300 carry season, but instead all you get is about Pat White and how much better the Wildcat is going to be. The one year Brown did put up huge numbers, in those 7 games, he was the centerpiece on a team with no other weapons worth using. I just don't see that happening in Miami this year, even if Ricky is spent.

The other thing to consider is Miami will very likely regress this year.

But of course, none of that means Brown won't be a productive player. I'd take last year and make it his floor, statistically.

Its funny I came in to post nearly the same thing. Is there any evidence, coachspeak, sideline reports, local messageboards, etc. that the workload arrangement that worked so well last year is going to change? That's one of my biggest hangups with his situation (that and he always gets hurt). The Brown supporters always seem to say "well he's a year away from his injury so now he's fully healthy and will get the carries", "he's in a contract year so they'll lean on him and make him the workhorse" or "he's much more talented the Ricky and will get the carries". I know his supporters are saying that but are the ones who really matter, the coaches, saying that?One thing I learned a while back is not to assume I know more than the coaches and to listen to the coaches, listen to the local reporters, training camp reports, local messageboards, etc.. Yes some of it is coachspeak and you have to weed it out but FFers often think situations SHOULD change (Maroney, Norwood, etc.) but the coaches have their reasons for utilizing the players in their way.

This quote was posted a few weeks ago:

Miami Dolphins head coach Tony Sparano said RB Ronnie Brown does not have any restrictions on the field and the team doesn't have to worry about him getting through practice like they did last year when he was recovering from a severe knee injury. He noted Brown can receive the number of plays they feel he needs.

While it doesn't say exactly how many carries they are going to give him, it seems to suggest that they couldn't give him the number they wanted to last year. I think most assume that it means he will get more this year. But, maybe it just means they can give him more carries in practice.

 

[Todem]

Bottom line is Brown will be available late second through mid 3rd round this year in most leagues and he represents great value in PPR scoring.

 

[Banger]

Bottom line is Brown will be available late second through mid 3rd round this year in most leagues and he represents great value in PPR scoring.

why is he supposed to get more receptions? With the exception of the Cam Cameron year two years ago where he was force fed receptions his reception totals have been 32, 33 and 33. Seems pretty consistent to me...any particular reason they would spike this year?

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

I was wrong about Ronnie Brown last year, I wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole. I've basically done that his entire career but with Parcells there and how things went last year, I finally feel confident enough to draft him this year.

He showed good burst, power and was a heck of a running back last year. I know there's some competition this year but if he runs like he did last year, the cream will rise to the top and he was the cream.

1200 yards rushing, 11 td's

30 receptions for 300 yards and 2 td's

2 passes for 40 yards and 1 passing TD

 

[BuckeyeArt]

Bottom line is Brown will be available late second through mid 3rd round this year in most leagues and he represents great value in PPR scoring.

why is he supposed to get more receptions? With the exception of the Cam Cameron year two years ago where he was force fed receptions his reception totals have been 32, 33 and 33. Seems pretty consistent to me...any particular reason they would spike this year?

From Sun Sentinel yesterday:

Tony Sparano Q&A: Ronnie Brown to be used more in passing game

(On Ronnie Brown's development in the passing game) - "Ronnie is really starting to understand the passing game better. So some of the things we do, we are getting him a little more involved that way. In general, Ronnie is more comfortable. The ball is starting to find him a little more. One of the things we are trying to do here in the next couple of days is start to increase Ronnie and Ricky [Williams] reps as we get on with [training camp] this week. You will probably start to feel him a little more that way too."

 

[jaylasoul14]

for the last few weeks i was planning to go wr in the 3rd, now i think i u have to pick ronnie brown if he's there in the 3rd, no reason he shouldn't produce rb1 numbers similiar to slaton/gore. imo he's one of the best dual purpase backs this, centerpiece of the offense

 

[Keith1]

for the last few weeks i was planning to go wr in the 3rd, now i think i u have to pick ronnie brown if he's there in the 3rd, no reason he shouldn't produce rb1 numbers similiar to slaton/gore. imo he's one of the best dual purpase backs this, centerpiece of the offense

I don't think he lasts very far into the 3rd round at all. Unless you are picking from perhaps the # 1 or # 2 slot, I think he is gone by the 3rd. I like Ronnie alot this year, and I realize that if I want him, I will have to grab him in the 2nd (at 2.08).

 

[two_dollars]

Before I go into projections, is there any way to tell how many of his yards/TDs were in the Wildcat formation? Because if Pat White takes over that role (which it would be silly if he did not), I would like to see what he did outside of that formation (a general baseline) before I make any projections. For example, we all know he had that huge game in the Wildcat formation against the Pats...I am not a big fan of the "take that 70 yarder away from player X" mentality, but if you take a guy out of an entire formation that was his bread and butter, you have to make adjustments.

Ronnie scored 5 of his 10 TD's (not counting the passing TD even) out of the Wildcat, so that's a big big chunk. But so far he's still taking the majority of the Wildcat snaps in the preseason, so how does this shake things up?

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

someone said he's a love him or hate him fantasy candidate. i disagree. i'll be ok with taking him as RB2 in the 4th. probably will find something better in the 3rd. not gonna sweat it much either way. he's good for 8 tds with a decent chance for upside given improved health and oline. next.

 

[IHEARTFF]

Before I go into projections, is there any way to tell how many of his yards/TDs were in the Wildcat formation? Because if Pat White takes over that role (which it would be silly if he did not), I would like to see what he did outside of that formation (a general baseline) before I make any projections. For example, we all know he had that huge game in the Wildcat formation against the Pats...I am not a big fan of the "take that 70 yarder away from player X" mentality, but if you take a guy out of an entire formation that was his bread and butter, you have to make adjustments.

Ronnie scored 5 of his 10 TD's (not counting the passing TD even) out of the Wildcat, so that's a big big chunk. But so far he's still taking the majority of the Wildcat snaps in the preseason, so how does this shake things up?

He also had 4 in 1 game, sounds like boom or bust. Someone I would rather have in a flex spot, maybe low end #2.

 

[Vision6]

I really like R.Brown this year but I'm in the 7th spot and don't really have the stones to take him in the 2nd. I will be praying he falls to me in the third.

Ronnie looks like he has his burst back and is as good an all around back as we have in the league. Wouldn't be surprised if he finishes in the top 5

 

[SharkBait]

Couple of drafts I've been in he has fallen, I picked him up in the 5th in one league. Didn't really need a RB in that spot, but wasn't going to pass on him there. Reminds me of a Curtis Martin scenario a couple years back.