Player Spotlight: Vincent Jackson (1 Viewer)

[Maurile Tremblay]

BTW, I agree that Floyd is a nice deep sleeper. I'd draft him before Parker for sure, just for his TD potential.

 

[Two Deep]

just to add a little more edge to my skepticism on Jackson...

One of the things I look for in a WR are ball skills that make it look like they don't even have to think about catching the ball - like they were programmed to do it. There's a lot ofelements to this - whether they subtlely move their hands back as the ball arrives to absorb some of the force vs. rigidly holding their arms and hands out, whether they smoothly extend for the ball and bring it in, or jab at the ball, whether they jump to receive a pass or catch it in stride, whether they body catch or pluck the ball out of the air...

In general, all of these things come back to one question, Does the receiver seem like he is thinking when the ball arrives? Thinking = bad. Jackson strikes me as the kind of WR who still thinks the ball instead of letting repetition and instincts take over. I have seen very few WRs make the transition from unnatural to natural when it comes to ball skills.

This is highly, highly, highly speculative, IMO. I agree with much of what you're saying, but I haven't seen anything from Jackson that lead me to believe he is "unnatural" receiving the football.Slow-mo ~ the 30 second mark

But I'm a homer, so my shades are definitely tinted.

Funny, because I would use that clip to cite my point. Shortening your stride and "feeling" the back of the end zone coming is one of those things I would classify as "natural WR skills". Jackson could have easily shortened his stride, or even done the good ole "dot the I". Also, watch the way he pulls the ball into his body when it was unnecessary - he already had two hands on it - of course that doesnt stop the ball from moving around a little even after Jackson has both hands on it. The kind of WRs I look for pluck the ball out of the air, and it stays still once it hits their hands - they also trust their hands. Maybe, just maybe, Jackson was thinking about not dropping the ball instead of being aware of the end line - pure speculation, but I remember thinking when that play happened, "it should have been easier for him to get both feet in".

Completely agree. Cost San Diego a TD. I just disagree with the notion that he doesn't look natural catching the football, with emphasis on the hands and arms.

The opportunity is there for WR1 #'s, the size/athleticism is there, so if Jackson fails to deliver, I'll give you your just due on calling this one on your perception of his natural receiving ability. As I've posted earlier, I think he'll have little problem catching 60 balls for ~ 1000 yards and 7-9 TDs, but I wouldn't project more than that b/c of Rivers inclination to spread the ball around.

You just glossed over the fact that he double-clutched that ball and pulled it into his body for no reason I can see. Watch how the ball "lands" in his hands instead Jackson plucking it out of the air (the 2nd and 3rd slo mo angles show this well). You also admit that you were because your gut told you that should have been a TD.You want to be my #1 WR? You should be able to catch that ball cleanly and get your feet in.

This comes down to nothing more than inexperience, lost track of where he was at on the field. Remember he was basically the equivalent of a rookie last season. This video does nothing to suggest that he can't catch or will not continue to grow and minimize his mistakes. If he alligator armed that catch then I could see using it for a negative review of his play. These type of threads drive me crazy because all it comes down to is person "A" likes this paticular players chance and person "B" doesn't. There has not been enough opprotunity too see him play and say he is either a hit or miss.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

AJ Smith on a local sports radio show (Loose Cannons) on Monday: "We felt Vincent broke out last year, at least for the Chargers. He's now in his third year and is becoming a pro. Now this year he needs to break out in terms of people around the NFL taking notice that he is a top receiver. We need Vincent to do that if the Chargers are going to go where we want to go."

Meanwhile, SDBoltReport.com reports that Kassim Osgood is looking for more playing time on offense, and could challenge Malcom Floyd for the WR4 role. I personally don't see that happening since Floyd has much better hands and big-play ability, but it's something to note.

 

[Gold Plated Nails]

AJ Smith on a local sports radio show (Loose Cannons) on Monday: "We felt Vincent broke out last year, at least for the Chargers. He's now in his third year and is becoming a pro. Now this year he needs to break out in terms of people around the NFL taking notice that he is a top receiver. We need Vincent to do that if the Chargers are going to go where we want to go."

Meanwhile, SDBoltReport.com reports that Kassim Osgood is looking for more playing time on offense, and could challenge Malcom Floyd for the WR4 role. I personally don't see that happening since Floyd has much better hands and big-play ability, but it's something to note.

I highly doubt Floyd finishes as the WR4 this season (excluding LT and Gates). Floyd is at worst going to finish WR#3 (providing he stays healthy) and I won't be shocked in the least if he finishes WR#2 on the team or even WR#1 if there is an injury.

 

[Despyzer]

Floyd is at worst going to finish WR#3 (providing he stays healthy) and I won't be shocked in the least if he finishes WR#2 on the team or even WR#1 if there is an injury.

Who does Floyd overtake first then - Parker, Jackson, or Davis? Personally, WR4 sounds about right for Floyd.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Floyd is at worst going to finish WR#3 (providing he stays healthy) and I won't be shocked in the least if he finishes WR#2 on the team or even WR#1 if there is an injury.

Who does Floyd overtake first then - Parker, Jackson, or Davis? Personally, WR4 sounds about right for Floyd.

Yeah. They're all int he mix, but with how high the team evidently is on Davis, I think Floyd is number four right now. (Although he may be number two for fantasy purposes since I suspect Davis and Parker will come off the field in the red zone, to be replaced by Floyd.)

 

[Gold Plated Nails]

Floyd is at worst going to finish WR#3 (providing he stays healthy) and I won't be shocked in the least if he finishes WR#2 on the team or even WR#1 if there is an injury.

Who does Floyd overtake first then - Parker, Jackson, or Davis? Personally, WR4 sounds about right for Floyd.

Yeah. They're all int he mix, but with how high the team evidently is on Davis, I think Floyd is number four right now. (Although he may be number two for fantasy purposes since I suspect Davis and Parker will come off the field in the red zone, to be replaced by Floyd.)

I am speaking strictly from fantasy purposes. So I see Floyd "overtaking" Davis this season. I also won't be shocked if he overtakes Parker or Jackson, or both.

 

[rzrback77]

Vince Jackson is another of those third year wide receivers that some folks are predicting a huge year for. I just don't see it. San Diego has favored their TE and RB over their WRs in recent years. I mean they have Antonio Gates and LaDainian Tomlinson, why would you look elsewhere?

In 06, the WR targets were (1) Parker 70, (2) Jackson 56, (3) McCardell 51, and (4) Floyd 32. Parker and McCardell both had more receptions, but V Jackson got 6 TDs and was the fantasy leader at 82, an average of 5 per game. Floyd also scored 3 TDs and that was the total for the WRs, nine.

In 05, the WR targets were (1) McCardell 108, (2) Parker 80, (3) Caldwell 43, and (4) Jackson 8. McCardell led the fantasy scoring with 145 and Parker added 96. McCardell had 9 TDs, Parker 3, and Caldwell had 1 for the WR total of thirteen.

In 04, the WR targets were (1) Parker 71, (2) McCardell 57, (3) Caldwell 29 and (4) Osgood 28. Parker had 4 TDs and the team total for WRs was twelve. Parker led the fantasy scoring with 98.

They just haven't had a "go-to" WR in their recent past. Just because McCardell is gone, doesn't make V Jackson a dominant receiver option. I think that Parker, Floyd, and first round draft pick Craig Davis will all have a role in the passing game which will result in none of them being a good fantasy option.

Vince Jackson 80 targets 44 reception 660 yards (15.0 ypc) and 5 TDs

 

[JayMan]

Vince Jackson is another of those third year wide receivers that some folks are predicting a huge year for. I just don't see it. San Diego has favored their TE and RB over their WRs in recent years. I mean they have Antonio Gates and LaDainian Tomlinson, why would you look elsewhere?They just haven't had a "go-to" WR in their recent past. Just because McCardell is gone, doesn't make V Jackson a dominant receiver option. I think that Parker, Floyd, and first round draft pick Craig Davis will all have a role in the passing game which will result in none of them being a good fantasy option.Vince Jackson 80 targets 44 reception 660 yards (15.0 ypc) and 5 TDs

I like all your spotlight postings... always bring insightful information and i generally agree with most... but I think you are painting the worst scenario for VJax here...I project that the SD passing offense will net 3500/24 (not a big difference from 3412/24 last year)... suppose Gates (and all other TE) gets 1100/10 and LT (and all other RB) gets 600/3... there are still 1800/11 to go for the WRs...By elimination...unless you project Parker/Davis/Floyd to collectively get over 1150/6, I think that your predictions for VJax are a tad too low... I'm seeing 55/850/6... WR33...

 

[rzrback77]

Vince Jackson is another of those third year wide receivers that some folks are predicting a huge year for. I just don't see it. San Diego has favored their TE and RB over their WRs in recent years. I mean they have Antonio Gates and LaDainian Tomlinson, why would you look elsewhere?

They just haven't had a "go-to" WR in their recent past. Just because McCardell is gone, doesn't make V Jackson a dominant receiver option. I think that Parker, Floyd, and first round draft pick Craig Davis will all have a role in the passing game which will result in none of them being a good fantasy option.

Vince Jackson 80 targets 44 reception 660 yards (15.0 ypc) and 5 TDs

I like all your spotlight postings... always bring insightful information and i generally agree with most... but I think you are painting the worst scenario for VJax here...I project that the SD passing offense will net 3500/24 (not a big difference from 3412/24 last year)... suppose Gates (and all other TE) gets 1100/10 and LT (and all other RB) gets 600/3... there are still 1800/11 to go for the WRs...

By elimination...unless you project Parker/Davis/Floyd to collectively get over 1150/6, I think that your predictions for VJax are a tad too low... I'm seeing 55/850/6... WR33...

Thanks for the props and I went ahead and provided a distribution among the SD WRs to match your WR projection above. V Jack 44 660 5

Parker 48 600 1 - he had 48/659/0 in 06 and 57/725/3 in 05 - so this is lower than previous

Floyd 28 320 4 - he had 15/210/3 in 06 so this w

Davis 18 220 1 - he was a first round pick

totals 138 catches 1800 and 11 TDs - this seems reasonable to me, a modest increase for the overall WR numbers for the Chargers from last year

 

[JayMan]

Thanks for the props and I went ahead and provided a distribution among the SD WRs to match your WR projection above. V Jack 44 660 5Parker 48 600 1 - he had 48/659/0 in 06 and 57/725/3 in 05 - so this is lower than previousFloyd 28 320 4 - he had 15/210/3 in 06 so this wDavis 18 220 1 - he was a first round picktotals 138 catches 1800 and 11 TDs - this seems reasonable to me, a modest increase for the overall WR numbers for the Chargers from last year

Fair enough... I think we'll just have to respectfully disagree (this is why I think your posting are insightful - helps me to gauge other projections against mine)... mainly on Parker's receptions/yardage - I have him at 31/420... I think he's the one that takes a backseat with the arrival of Davis and clutch RZ play from Floyd and VJax... I guess we'll have to wait and see

 

[Bears_Man2]

I like Vincent's potential down the road, but I think he's become way overdrafted. Yes, he's the #1 WR by default, 3rd receiving option on a run-first, run-second, run-third team. No reason to expect that to change. If anything, I see them running even more and getting Turner involved.

 

[BuckeyeArt]

Just read Jason Wood's summary and found this study to be a little useless:

Hardly a sterling endorsement for Jackson's TD production in 2007. But is the sample size too small?  Let's broaden our horizons. In the last 10 years, 55 receivers caught between 20 and 35 passes in their 2nd NFL seasons. How did they fare in the following year?...Excluding the 2006 entrants, we're left with 49 receivers in our data set [since they've yet to play Year N+1]Year N = 29 catches Year N = 391 yards Year N = 1.9 TDs Year N+1 = 32 catches Year N+1 = 464 yards Year N+1 = 3 TDsOf the 49 receivers in the sample set:Four (4) exceeded 1,000 yards receiving in Year N+1 Seven (7) exceeded 800 yards receiving in Year N+1 Six (6) exceeded 5 receiving TDs in Year N+1 Fourteen (14) exceeded 3 receiving TDs in Year N+1 As many receivers saw declines in their reception totals (24), as showed improvement (25) Almost as many receivers saw declines in their yardage totals (23), as showed improvement (26) Almost as many receivers saw declining TD totals (23), as showed improvement (26) 19 out of 49 improved in all three categories [39%] 7 out of 49 improved in two of three categories [14%] 26 out of 49 improved in at least two of three categories [53%]

Comparing Jackson to the 49 other 2nd year players is not the same as comparing him to the others who were starters in year N+1. Likely, many of the players with 20-35 receptions were backups in year N and remained backups in year N+1. That is obviously not the case with Jackson. It would be interesting to see a list of the 49 players studied so you could look at just the ones who were starters the following year. For example, Kelly Washington is in the group of 49 players. In 2004 (his 2nd year), he had 31 receptions. Nobody was predicting him to have a significant increase in 2005 because the opportunity was not there - he was still going to be WR3 or WR4. He finished 2005 with 10 receptions. Without removing these type of players from the group, the study and results are meaningless.

 

[OCC]

Just read Jason Wood's summary and found this study to be a little useless:

Hardly a sterling endorsement for Jackson's TD production in 2007. But is the sample size too small?  Let's broaden our horizons. In the last 10 years, 55 receivers caught between 20 and 35 passes in their 2nd NFL seasons. How did they fare in the following year?...Excluding the 2006 entrants, we're left with 49 receivers in our data set [since they've yet to play Year N+1]Year N = 29 catches Year N = 391 yards Year N = 1.9 TDs Year N+1 = 32 catches Year N+1 = 464 yards Year N+1 = 3 TDsOf the 49 receivers in the sample set:Four (4) exceeded 1,000 yards receiving in Year N+1 Seven (7) exceeded 800 yards receiving in Year N+1 Six (6) exceeded 5 receiving TDs in Year N+1 Fourteen (14) exceeded 3 receiving TDs in Year N+1 As many receivers saw declines in their reception totals (24), as showed improvement (25) Almost as many receivers saw declines in their yardage totals (23), as showed improvement (26) Almost as many receivers saw declining TD totals (23), as showed improvement (26) 19 out of 49 improved in all three categories [39%] 7 out of 49 improved in two of three categories [14%] 26 out of 49 improved in at least two of three categories [53%]

Comparing Jackson to the 49 other 2nd year players is not the same as comparing him to the others who were starters in year N+1. Likely, many of the players with 20-35 receptions were backups in year N and remained backups in year N+1. That is obviously not the case with Jackson. It would be interesting to see a list of the 49 players studied so you could look at just the ones who were starters the following year. For example, Kelly Washington is in the group of 49 players. In 2004 (his 2nd year), he had 31 receptions. Nobody was predicting him to have a significant increase in 2005 because the opportunity was not there - he was still going to be WR3 or WR4. He finished 2005 with 10 receptions. Without removing these type of players from the group, the study and results are meaningless.

Agreed. That data is utterly useless. 50 sample sizes? Wow! We had the same numbers about Lee Evans last year. It's a case by case issue. If Jackon is starting, then it changes everything. Wow a backup in year 2, sucked as a backup in year 3. Groundbreaking.Lets see year 2 backups, to year 3 starters, on a top 5 offense with a top 10 qb. Sample size has to be at least what, 2?

 

[gregjcross]

Agreed. That data is utterly useless. 50 sample sizes? Wow!

We had the same numbers about Lee Evans last year.

It's a case by case issue. If Jackon is starting, then it changes everything. Wow a backup in year 2, sucked as a backup in year 3. Groundbreaking.

Lets see year 2 backups, to year 3 starters, on a top 5 offense with a top 10 qb. Sample size has to be at least what, 2?

You guys are taking this stuff far too personally

There is absolutely no way to find empirical evidence that VJAX will do well or fail, his situation is very unique. He is fairly unique with his size. He should be a decent WR3 in large leagues as Rivers seems to like him

Just read Jason Wood's summary and found this study to be a little useless:
Hardly a sterling endorsement for Jackson's TD production in 2007. But is the sample size too small? Let's broaden our horizons. In the last 10 years, 55 receivers caught between 20 and 35 passes in their 2nd NFL seasons. How did they fare in the following year?...Excluding the 2006 entrants, we're left with 49 receivers in our data set [since they've yet to play Year N+1]Year N = 29 catches Year N = 391 yards Year N = 1.9 TDs Year N+1 = 32 catches Year N+1 = 464 yards Year N+1 = 3 TDsOf the 49 receivers in the sample set:Four (4) exceeded 1,000 yards receiving in Year N+1 Seven (7) exceeded 800 yards receiving in Year N+1 Six (6) exceeded 5 receiving TDs in Year N+1 Fourteen (14) exceeded 3 receiving TDs in Year N+1 As many receivers saw declines in their reception totals (24), as showed improvement (25) Almost as many receivers saw declines in their yardage totals (23), as showed improvement (26) Almost as many receivers saw declining TD totals (23), as showed improvement (26) 19 out of 49 improved in all three categories [39%] 7 out of 49 improved in two of three categories [14%] 26 out of 49 improved in at least two of three categories [53%]Comparing Jackson to the 49 other 2nd year players is not the same as comparing him to the others who were starters in year N+1. Likely, many of the players with 20-35 receptions were backups in year N and remained backups in year N+1. That is obviously not the case with Jackson. It would be interesting to see a list of the 49 players studied so you could look at just the ones who were starters the following year. For example, Kelly Washington is in the group of 49 players. In 2004 (his 2nd year), he had 31 receptions. Nobody was predicting him to have a significant increase in 2005 because the opportunity was not there - he was still going to be WR3 or WR4. He finished 2005 with 10 receptions. Without removing these type of players from the group, the study and results are meaningless.

Agreed. That data is utterly useless. 50 sample sizes? Wow!

We had the same numbers about Lee Evans last year.

It's a case by case issue. If Jackon is starting, then it changes everything. Wow a backup in year 2, sucked as a backup in year 3. Groundbreaking.

Lets see year 2 backups, to year 3 starters, on a top 5 offense with a top 10 qb. Sample size has to be at least what, 2?

 

[Jason Wood]

Part of the fun of any situation is slicing and dicing the numbers. Vincent Jackson is somewhat unique and, as a result, no sample size either SUPPORTING or DISPUTING his outlook is going to really hold a lot of weight. The point of my study was to show that it's just as easy to suggest Jackson won't break out as it is that he will, which seems oddly to be the consensus (or at least it was on the boards at the time of the discussion).

I'm pretty confident he has the opportunity to succeed, I'm not sure he has the ability.

 

[Despyzer]

I'm pretty confident he has the opportunity to succeed, I'm not sure he has the ability.

I was thinking just the opposite. He is likely to be no better than the third or fourth option.... and that's just on passing plays. I don't really question his ability.

 

[Jason Wood]

And two other thoughts on the sample size in my "analysis"

1) I have no predisposition to Vincent Jackson. I didn't run that sample study to find a reason not to like him, I tried to parse the data to see whether or not I could find an empirical reason to buy into the VJax hype.

2) While it's a small sample size, I would contend it's as relevant, if not more than the people who are looking at Jackson's final 4 games of the 2006 season as evidence of what he'll do in 2007

 

[Two Deep]

Part of the fun of any situation is slicing and dicing the numbers. Vincent Jackson is somewhat unique and, as a result, no sample size either SUPPORTING or DISPUTING his outlook is going to really hold a lot of weight. The point of my study was to show that it's just as easy to suggest Jackson won't break out as it is that he will, which seems oddly to be the consensus (or at least it was on the boards at the time of the discussion).

I'm pretty confident he has the opportunity to succeed, I'm not sure he has the ability.

Is this a gut feeling or something we should know about.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I'm pretty confident he has the opportunity to succeed, I'm not sure he has the ability.

I was thinking just the opposite. He is likely to be no better than the third or fourth option.... and that's just on passing plays. I don't really question his ability.

I feel the same way as Despyzer if ability = physical ability. Jackson has the whole package in terms of size, speed, strength, and hands. He's made some very impressive catches.He is reputed to be quite smart, but he did have some mental lapses last year (against Oakland and New England in particular).

So the doubts I have about him are whether he can stay mentally focused, and whether any particular Charger WR will get enough targets to be a legit fantasy starter.

But in terms of Jackson's raw physical ability, I have no doubts.

 

[Jason Wood]

I'm pretty confident he has the opportunity to succeed, I'm not sure he has the ability.

I was thinking just the opposite. He is likely to be no better than the third or fourth option.... and that's just on passing plays. I don't really question his ability.

I feel the same way as Despyzer if ability = physical ability. Jackson has the whole package in terms of size, speed, strength, and hands. He's made some very impressive catches.He is reputed to be quite smart, but he did have some mental lapses last year (against Oakland and New England in particular).

So the doubts I have about him are whether he can stay mentally focused, and whether any particular Charger WR will get enough targets to be a legit fantasy starter.

But in terms of Jackson's raw physical ability, I have no doubts.

The sports world is littered with people that had 'all the physical ability' and I'm not going to dispute Jackson's credentials there. However, given his collegiate level of competition (or lack thereof) and his limited NFL playing experience, there's absolutely no way anyone should have no doubts about his skill set as a receiver. Route-running, adjusting to defensive backs, body control in traffic, sense of timing, football IQ, ability to shed press coverage are just a few things we need to see more of.There's a difference between giving someone the benefit of the doubt, and having no doubts.

 

[BuckeyeArt]

2) While it's a small sample size, I would contend it's as relevant, if not more than the people who are looking at Jackson's final 4 games of the 2006 season as evidence of what he'll do in 2007

I have no problem with the sample size. It's just not relevant when you include players who were not given starting roles the following year. People look at the final 4 games because those are the games Jackson was given an opportunity to start. That is far more relevant than comparing him to statistics of backup players.

 

[Despyzer]

2) While it's a small sample size, I would contend it's as relevant, if not more than the people who are looking at Jackson's final 4 games of the 2006 season as evidence of what he'll do in 2007

So what other people have done is as relevant or more relevant to Jackson than what Jackson himself has done? That's a lot like saying that 32 year old FBGs with an average of seven posts a day and only three stars have a tendency to post a lot of garbage. Therefore, the next thing Jason Wood posts is likely to be complete garbage, despite what he have seen out of him recently.

 

[BigRed]

i have alot of trouble seeing 70 catches from jackson. even if you consider him the #1 WR, that still makes him the #3 option.

No, it does not. I'm amazed how many people buy into this. Anyone who thinks LT will approach 100 catches ever again is severely delusional. He's been in the 50s the last 3 yrs and is not likely to deviate from that much - he may even decline a bit due to emerging WRs. The WR1 for SD is going to catch more than that, and the odds of it being Davis THIS YEAR is also very unlikely. Hell Jackson may catch more than Gates - who recall only had 70ish last year. Maybe he'll go back to 80-90+, but I wouldn't count on that either.I'm not a huge fan, but the opportunity (and apparently, emerging talent) is there. Well worth a late flyer IMO.

 

[Banger]

i have alot of trouble seeing 70 catches from jackson. even if you consider him the #1 WR, that still makes him the #3 option.

No, it does not. I'm amazed how many people buy into this. Anyone who thinks LT will approach 100 catches ever again is severely delusional. He's been in the 50s the last 3 yrs and is not likely to deviate from that much - he may even decline a bit due to emerging WRs. The WR1 for SD is going to catch more than that, and the odds of it being Davis THIS YEAR is also very unlikely. Hell Jackson may catch more than Gates - who recall only had 70ish last year. Maybe he'll go back to 80-90+, but I wouldn't count on that either.I'm not a huge fan, but the opportunity (and apparently, emerging talent) is there. Well worth a late flyer IMO.

From camp chatter, LT has stated that he sees probably getting around 70 catch's/315 carries this year (so more reception/fewer runs) which essentially jives with Turner's recent track record. The talk around camp is that Gates is also going to be more involved this year in the receiving game. VJax will get his catch's as will Davis but neither will probably get over 50-55 but VJax will be a red zone target (the few times that LT doesn't score on 1st down).

 

[Tau837]

i have alot of trouble seeing 70 catches from jackson. even if you consider him the #1 WR, that still makes him the #3 option.

No, it does not. I'm amazed how many people buy into this. Anyone who thinks LT will approach 100 catches ever again is severely delusional. He's been in the 50s the last 3 yrs and is not likely to deviate from that much - he may even decline a bit due to emerging WRs. The WR1 for SD is going to catch more than that, and the odds of it being Davis THIS YEAR is also very unlikely. Hell Jackson may catch more than Gates - who recall only had 70ish last year. Maybe he'll go back to 80-90+, but I wouldn't count on that either.I'm not a huge fan, but the opportunity (and apparently, emerging talent) is there. Well worth a late flyer IMO.

From camp chatter, LT has stated that he sees probably getting around 70 catch's/315 carries this year (so more reception/fewer runs) which essentially jives with Turner's recent track record. The talk around camp is that Gates is also going to be more involved this year in the receiving game. VJax will get his catch's as will Davis but neither will probably get over 50-55 but VJax will be a red zone target (the few times that LT doesn't score on 1st down).

LT was second on the team in targets last season to Gates. LT had 80 targets, and the WR with the most targets was Parker, with 70. Now it sounds as if LT's targets could conceivably go up a bit. My initial reaction BigRed's post was to go and look it up, because I knew it had been a few seasons since LT caught 100, and I wondered if he was truly the second option. IMO it is reasonable to expect that San Diego's WR1 will get fewer targets than both Gates and LT.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I'm pretty confident he has the opportunity to succeed, I'm not sure he has the ability.

I was thinking just the opposite. He is likely to be no better than the third or fourth option.... and that's just on passing plays. I don't really question his ability.

I feel the same way as Despyzer if ability = physical ability. Jackson has the whole package in terms of size, speed, strength, and hands. He's made some very impressive catches.He is reputed to be quite smart, but he did have some mental lapses last year (against Oakland and New England in particular).

So the doubts I have about him are whether he can stay mentally focused, and whether any particular Charger WR will get enough targets to be a legit fantasy starter.

But in terms of Jackson's raw physical ability, I have no doubts.

The sports world is littered with people that had 'all the physical ability' and I'm not going to dispute Jackson's credentials there. However, given his collegiate level of competition (or lack thereof) and his limited NFL playing experience, there's absolutely no way anyone should have no doubts about his skill set as a receiver. Route-running, adjusting to defensive backs, body control in traffic, sense of timing, football IQ, ability to shed press coverage are just a few things we need to see more of.There's a difference between giving someone the benefit of the doubt, and having no doubts.

Go posting here Woody, Vjax is still very raw, and his "hands" are not that great IMO. Temper your expectations here boys. Im thinking WRBC, Davis,Floyd and Vjax will all have similar numbers and spread out big weeks

 

[Gold Plated Nails]

Hey Banger I'm wondering what your take on VJax is now that camp has about wrapped up. I was in your corner this offseason along with alot of us ubber homer Charger fans (and others who follow the team closely), who felt Floyd was not really been given his due and that he had a chance to get more balls his way this season, in fact that he had a decent shot of outperforming VJax. I no longer think that, even though he has been impressive in camp and his preseason action. Just the way the coaching staff has been operating in the preaseon games. Barring injury, I am quite confident now that VJax has cemented the #1 status, and Davis is the #2. Floyd will see work in the 3 WR set, but that's about it. When Parker comes back it gets more muddled for Davis/Floyd, but not VJax.

 

[Gold Plated Nails]

I'm pretty confident he has the opportunity to succeed, I'm not sure he has the ability.

I was thinking just the opposite. He is likely to be no better than the third or fourth option.... and that's just on passing plays. I don't really question his ability.

I feel the same way as Despyzer if ability = physical ability. Jackson has the whole package in terms of size, speed, strength, and hands. He's made some very impressive catches.He is reputed to be quite smart, but he did have some mental lapses last year (against Oakland and New England in particular).

So the doubts I have about him are whether he can stay mentally focused, and whether any particular Charger WR will get enough targets to be a legit fantasy starter.

But in terms of Jackson's raw physical ability, I have no doubts.

The sports world is littered with people that had 'all the physical ability' and I'm not going to dispute Jackson's credentials there. However, given his collegiate level of competition (or lack thereof) and his limited NFL playing experience, there's absolutely no way anyone should have no doubts about his skill set as a receiver. Route-running, adjusting to defensive backs, body control in traffic, sense of timing, football IQ, ability to shed press coverage are just a few things we need to see more of.There's a difference between giving someone the benefit of the doubt, and having no doubts.

Go posting here Woody, Vjax is still very raw, and his "hands" are not that great IMO. Temper your expectations here boys. Im thinking WRBC, Davis,Floyd and Vjax will all have similar numbers and spread out big weeks

I disagree BSS, not that his hands are questionable (that I agree with), with the notion that it will be WRBC. Its going to be Jackson and then everyone else, with Davis being the guy who has the chance to push out Floyd and Parker to start. Pay close attention to the preseason game on Sat.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I'm pretty confident he has the opportunity to succeed, I'm not sure he has the ability.

I was thinking just the opposite. He is likely to be no better than the third or fourth option.... and that's just on passing plays. I don't really question his ability.

I feel the same way as Despyzer if ability = physical ability. Jackson has the whole package in terms of size, speed, strength, and hands. He's made some very impressive catches.He is reputed to be quite smart, but he did have some mental lapses last year (against Oakland and New England in particular).

So the doubts I have about him are whether he can stay mentally focused, and whether any particular Charger WR will get enough targets to be a legit fantasy starter.

But in terms of Jackson's raw physical ability, I have no doubts.

The sports world is littered with people that had 'all the physical ability' and I'm not going to dispute Jackson's credentials there. However, given his collegiate level of competition (or lack thereof) and his limited NFL playing experience, there's absolutely no way anyone should have no doubts about his skill set as a receiver. Route-running, adjusting to defensive backs, body control in traffic, sense of timing, football IQ, ability to shed press coverage are just a few things we need to see more of.There's a difference between giving someone the benefit of the doubt, and having no doubts.

Go posting here Woody, Vjax is still very raw, and his "hands" are not that great IMO. Temper your expectations here boys. Im thinking WRBC, Davis,Floyd and Vjax will all have similar numbers and spread out big weeks

I disagree BSS, not that his hands are questionable (that I agree with), with the notion that it will be WRBC. Its going to be Jackson and then everyone else, with Davis being the guy who has the chance to push out Floyd and Parker to start. Pay close attention to the preseason game on Sat.

I watched the whole rams game twice, and he seemed to be targeted alot. or are you talking this Saturday? Anyway, I stand by my statement, this will be a committee, Gates and LT gets theirs. there will be alot of belly aching here this year when Floyd blows up or Buster davis has a monster game ans Vjax goes 3/30.

My approach with drafts coming up is to let someone else grab Vjax and try and get Cdavis late, Floyd probably wont get drafted but is a quick waiver wire add if injury to Davis or Vjax occurs.

 

[Gold Plated Nails]

I'm pretty confident he has the opportunity to succeed, I'm not sure he has the ability.

I was thinking just the opposite. He is likely to be no better than the third or fourth option.... and that's just on passing plays. I don't really question his ability.

I feel the same way as Despyzer if ability = physical ability. Jackson has the whole package in terms of size, speed, strength, and hands. He's made some very impressive catches.He is reputed to be quite smart, but he did have some mental lapses last year (against Oakland and New England in particular).

So the doubts I have about him are whether he can stay mentally focused, and whether any particular Charger WR will get enough targets to be a legit fantasy starter.

But in terms of Jackson's raw physical ability, I have no doubts.

The sports world is littered with people that had 'all the physical ability' and I'm not going to dispute Jackson's credentials there. However, given his collegiate level of competition (or lack thereof) and his limited NFL playing experience, there's absolutely no way anyone should have no doubts about his skill set as a receiver. Route-running, adjusting to defensive backs, body control in traffic, sense of timing, football IQ, ability to shed press coverage are just a few things we need to see more of.There's a difference between giving someone the benefit of the doubt, and having no doubts.

Go posting here Woody, Vjax is still very raw, and his "hands" are not that great IMO. Temper your expectations here boys. Im thinking WRBC, Davis,Floyd and Vjax will all have similar numbers and spread out big weeks

I disagree BSS, not that his hands are questionable (that I agree with), with the notion that it will be WRBC. Its going to be Jackson and then everyone else, with Davis being the guy who has the chance to push out Floyd and Parker to start. Pay close attention to the preseason game on Sat.

I watched the whole rams game twice, and he seemed to be targeted alot. or are you talking this Saturday? Anyway, I stand by my statement, this will be a committee, Gates and LT gets theirs. there will be alot of belly aching here this year when Floyd blows up or Buster davis has a monster game ans Vjax goes 3/30.

My approach with drafts coming up is to let someone else grab Vjax and try and get Cdavis late, Floyd probably wont get drafted but is a quick waiver wire add if injury to Davis or Vjax occurs.

I meant pay close attention to this saturdays game. Norv (like most coaches) is going to treat the first 3 Qs like a real game. I don't expect VJax to leave the field. I mean he is the goaline WR, the single set WR, etc. He is the #1 now, he was playing those roles at the end of last year, but Floyd was out. Floyd is back now so I was willing to give him a chance, and it is still Vjax.That said, I don't know if I would be willing to select VJax at his ADP. He is being pretty fairly valued in my mind. But I do expect him to be the #1 WR.

**Disclaimer, I too am targeting Davis in my drafts late, he is going undrafted, and is going to be the #2 WR and starter opening day. An injury to Vjax, or just unexpected performance from Davis could be a lottery ticket.

 

[Banger]

Hey Banger I'm wondering what your take on VJax is now that camp has about wrapped up. I was in your corner this offseason along with alot of us ubber homer Charger fans (and others who follow the team closely), who felt Floyd was not really been given his due and that he had a chance to get more balls his way this season, in fact that he had a decent shot of outperforming VJax. I no longer think that, even though he has been impressive in camp and his preseason action. Just the way the coaching staff has been operating in the preaseon games. Barring injury, I am quite confident now that VJax has cemented the #1 status, and Davis is the #2. Floyd will see work in the 3 WR set, but that's about it. When Parker comes back it gets more muddled for Davis/Floyd, but not VJax.

VJax is the "#1 wr" and I think he will probably retain that status but he still needs to stay healthy and overcome some of the mental lapses that have plagued him. I think he had a bad drop in a game 1 and an offensive penalty in the 2nd game. Once the bullets start flying during the season it's going to come down to who makes plays (or who doesn't) and the talent gap between the two isn't that great IMO. The #2 (Davis)/#3 (Floyd) wr's both had very good camps and VJax was solid as well but spent a good bit of time on the sidelines with minor ailments. I would not be shocked at all if Davis ended up having more catch's/yards than VJax but fewer td's. Also, I think that matchups are going to play a huge part in who gets the ball. With Gates/LT the Charger wr's will never get doubled so when Rivers steps to the line and reads the defense where the ball goes will depend largely on the defense and the matchup he's given.

 

[Sleeper 43]

In 05 I went after Vjax hard. I was on him early and liked the fact that when compared with BMW was superior in every physical gift. A little stronger, bigger, faster , better combine numbers etc. I saw this as great value considering BMW was a top 10 pick in rookie drafts.

Fast forward to now. Hes gained attention, learned slowly , seems to have out- shined BMW (not saying much but..). But to this day, I want to be convinced, but im not.

Technically he'll be the number WR1 however, having LT and Gates on your team makes for a virtual roadblock for now. V-Jax will end up being a great WR2, hes designed to be a great compliment,possession,red-zone, go route guy. Hes not gamebreaker/consistent wr1 material. I like C Davis out of all the guys they have to eventually be a true WR1.

 

[Banger]

I like C Davis out of all the guys they have to eventually be a true WR1.

I agree. He reminds me of R. Wayne.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I meant pay close attention to this saturdays game. Norv (like most coaches) is going to treat the first 3 Qs like a real game. I don't expect VJax to leave the field. I mean he is the goaline WR, the single set WR, etc. He is the #1 now, he was playing those roles at the end of last year, but Floyd was out. Floyd is back now so I was willing to give him a chance, and it is still Vjax.

This is all you need to know here folks. VJax is the go-to WR in the Chargers "Gold" package (red zone) and thus he's almost a lock to lead Charger WRs in TD catches. While I'm loving the local Craig Davis hype and his outstanding camp performance thus far, VJax's role inside the opponents 20 ensures he'll be the Charger WR to own in fantasy football this year, barring injury.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

LT was second on the team in targets last season to Gates. LT had 80 targets, and the WR with the most targets was Parker, with 70.

I wouldn't use last year as a guide. Last year the starters for much of the season were McCardell and Parker; but both missed time due to injury (and McCardell was eventually demoted) and both came out of the game in the red zone.This year Vincent Jackson will start all year (barring injury) and will stay in the game in the red zone.Parker may have led the team in targets last year, but he was really never the WR1. This year, the Chargers will have a WR1. So I'd completely throw out last year as a guide for how many targets the top WR will get.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

That said, I don't know if I would be willing to select VJax at his ADP. He is being pretty fairly valued in my mind.

Yes. I think he was a bargain in many May and June drafts, maybe even July, but in the drafts I've done within the last few weeks he's generally been going higher than I would draft him.

 

[BigRed]

Where is he going? I expect I can get him for $1-2 tops in our auction.

 

[Gr00vus]

Where is he going? I expect I can get him for $1-2 tops in our auction.

I know it's not auction, but according to antsports mocks of the last two weeks he's going in the 7th round - ahead of Joey Galloway, Bernard Berrian, a full round ahead of Santonio Holmes and Jennings.I think the price is now just about too rich for my blood, and I'm a big Vinnie fan.Two years ago McCardell put up 70/917/9 for the Chargers. I figure that's Vinnie's ceiling, maybe with a bit more yardage. Galloway went 62/1057/7 on an awful offense last year. At his current ADP Vinnie's no longer value, he's moving into overhyped. Take Galloway in the 7th, take C Davis or Floyd with your last picks, that's how I'm looking at things now.I think Phil and Gates are in for big years by the way. BIG.

 

[KellysHeroes]

I took VJax at 7.07 in my 14 team Dynasty... it felt right... I passed up guys like DJ Hacket & Berrian (Holmes and Cotchery were already gone). As a couple of posters have said; VJax isn't going to be an 80 rec guy, more like 50 or maybe 60 recs with only 800 yds.... But he could in for double digit TDs. With Ds covering Gates + worrying about the best player in the game... 6'5" 240+ VJax is going to be singled covered by someone whoes 5'11" 200 pds.

 

[Tau837]

I took VJax at 7.07 in my 14 team Dynasty... it felt right... I passed up guys like DJ Hacket & Berrian (Holmes and Cotchery were already gone). As a couple of posters have said; VJax isn't going to be an 80 rec guy, more like 50 or maybe 60 recs with only 800 yds.... But he could in for double digit TDs. With Ds covering Gates + worrying about the best player in the game... 6'5" 240+ VJax is going to be singled covered by someone whoes 5'11" 200 pds.

No way he goes for 10+ TDs. Tomlinson and Gates will still be options 1 and 2 in the red zone, and I expect the longer TDs to be spread around between Jackson, Floyd, and Davis.

 

[Gr00vus]

I took VJax at 7.07 in my 14 team Dynasty... it felt right... I passed up guys like DJ Hacket & Berrian (Holmes and Cotchery were already gone). As a couple of posters have said; VJax isn't going to be an 80 rec guy, more like 50 or maybe 60 recs with only 800 yds.... But he could in for double digit TDs. With Ds covering Gates + worrying about the best player in the game... 6'5" 240+ VJax is going to be singled covered by someone whoes 5'11" 200 pds.

No way he goes for 10+ TDs. Tomlinson and Gates will still be options 1 and 2 in the red zone, and I expect the longer TDs to be spread around between Jackson, Floyd, and Davis.

I think Vinnie should easily have more than 800 yards though - he seems to have a nack for getting behind the D.

 

[Gold Plated Nails]

Hey Banger I'm wondering what your take on VJax is now that camp has about wrapped up. I was in your corner this offseason along with alot of us ubber homer Charger fans (and others who follow the team closely), who felt Floyd was not really been given his due and that he had a chance to get more balls his way this season, in fact that he had a decent shot of outperforming VJax. I no longer think that, even though he has been impressive in camp and his preseason action. Just the way the coaching staff has been operating in the preaseon games. Barring injury, I am quite confident now that VJax has cemented the #1 status, and Davis is the #2. Floyd will see work in the 3 WR set, but that's about it. When Parker comes back it gets more muddled for Davis/Floyd, but not VJax.

VJax is the "#1 wr" and I think he will probably retain that status but he still needs to stay healthy and overcome some of the mental lapses that have plagued him. I think he had a bad drop in a game 1 and an offensive penalty in the 2nd game. Once the bullets start flying during the season it's going to come down to who makes plays (or who doesn't) and the talent gap between the two isn't that great IMO. The #2 (Davis)/#3 (Floyd) wr's both had very good camps and VJax was solid as well but spent a good bit of time on the sidelines with minor ailments. I would not be shocked at all if Davis ended up having more catch's/yards than VJax but fewer td's. Also, I think that matchups are going to play a huge part in who gets the ball. With Gates/LT the Charger wr's will never get doubled so when Rivers steps to the line and reads the defense where the ball goes will depend largely on the defense and the matchup he's given.

2 Tds in the last preseason game. PS: I still like Davis as the value play here, but VJax is looking very solid.

 

[Banger]

Hey Banger I'm wondering what your take on VJax is now that camp has about wrapped up. I was in your corner this offseason along with alot of us ubber homer Charger fans (and others who follow the team closely), who felt Floyd was not really been given his due and that he had a chance to get more balls his way this season, in fact that he had a decent shot of outperforming VJax. I no longer think that, even though he has been impressive in camp and his preseason action. Just the way the coaching staff has been operating in the preaseon games. Barring injury, I am quite confident now that VJax has cemented the #1 status, and Davis is the #2. Floyd will see work in the 3 WR set, but that's about it. When Parker comes back it gets more muddled for Davis/Floyd, but not VJax.

VJax is the "#1 wr" and I think he will probably retain that status but he still needs to stay healthy and overcome some of the mental lapses that have plagued him. I think he had a bad drop in a game 1 and an offensive penalty in the 2nd game. Once the bullets start flying during the season it's going to come down to who makes plays (or who doesn't) and the talent gap between the two isn't that great IMO. The #2 (Davis)/#3 (Floyd) wr's both had very good camps and VJax was solid as well but spent a good bit of time on the sidelines with minor ailments. I would not be shocked at all if Davis ended up having more catch's/yards than VJax but fewer td's. Also, I think that matchups are going to play a huge part in who gets the ball. With Gates/LT the Charger wr's will never get doubled so when Rivers steps to the line and reads the defense where the ball goes will depend largely on the defense and the matchup he's given.

2 Tds in the last preseason game. PS: I still like Davis as the value play here, but VJax is looking very solid.

He did look great.

 

[Jason Wood]

I have bumped up Jackson into my top 30...I think he's explosive and does have a rapport with Rivers. I also think the team's willingness to consider Craig Davis as a starter indicates that, at least for '07, Jackson will be by far the most targeted WR on the team.

 

[Gold Plated Nails]

I have bumped up Jackson into my top 30...I think he's explosive and does have a rapport with Rivers. I also think the team's willingness to consider Craig Davis as a starter indicates that, at least for '07, Jackson will be by far the most targeted WR on the team.

I think he is definitly in line for top30 now. Rivers is taking more chances down field with him, as he did towards the end of last season. Along with that, he is the single WR and goaline guy, its all lining up for him as I believe he has left Floyd in the dust. Davis has apparently proven to the coaching staff that he can handle the Eric Parker possesion role, and has more upside with some game breaking ability. I still like the fact I can get him basically as a waiver wire guy as a very nice value play.