Playoff arguments: Clarify tiebreak procedures now (1 Viewer)

[GregR_2]

Each year around playoff time the Shark Pool gets a bunch of posts of arguments in their league related to who makes the playoffs. The causes are often very similar, and most can be avoided if the league had just clarified how they handle things before it came time to actually find the seeds. If you wait, then people are going to want the resolution that helps their team the most rather than what is the most fair. So save yourself some headache and do it now before anyone has a vested interested in an answer going a certain way.

Here is a link to NFL tiebreaking procedures for those who might be interested. http://www.nfl.com/standings/tiebreakingprocedures

So here are the issues I think we commonly see in fantasy. Encourage others to add any I missed. I'd suggest emailing your completely tiebreaker rules, in addition to clarifying any of these situations as needed.

1) For tiebreakers using "head-to-head" what happens when teams haven't played the same number of H2H games in a 3 or more way tie? Some leagues will consider 2-0 to be better than 3-1. Or if teams don't all play each other, you could have a 1-0 team and a 2-0 team, does one beat the other? Other leagues require all teams involved to have played the same number of games for head to head to count. The NFL only counts it if there is a team who swept all opponents, or a team who was swept by all opponents. I don't know that there is a standard "right" answer, though I think the latter is the better of the two. Regardless, if you use head to head in your leagues, and teams don't all play each other the same number of games, clarify it now.

2) Coming in 2nd place in a tiebreak doesn't mean you win the next wildcard's tiebreak. This one there is a clear right and wrong way to do it. Every playoff spot should have it's tiebreak done only with the teams who are involved. This can be a big deal in leagues that use head to head or other tiebreakers where the exact group of teams involved in the tiebreak changes the result. Imagine this 3-way tiebreak situation, with the final 2 wildcards on the line:

Team A goes 1-1 against B and 2-0 against C. Team B goes 1-1 against C.

Wrong way:

Head to head tiebreak for next to last playoff spot between A, B and C: Team A 3-1. Team B 2-2. Team C: 1-3

Team A wins next to last wildcard. Team B comes in second and gets last wildcard.

Correct way:

Head to head tiebreak for next to last playoff spot between A, B and C: Team A 3-1. Team B 2-2. Team C: 1-3

Team A wins next to last wildcard.

Head to head tiebreak for last wildcard spot between B and C: Team B 1-1. Team C 1-1.

Head to head doesn't break tie, move on to next tiebreaker in list

As you can see, by incorrectly doing 2 playoff spots in 1 tiebreak, Team C would lose out, when instead B and C should have gone to the next tiebreaker in the list after head to head. You can't include Team A's head to head record for a wildcard spot he's not eligible for (as he already is in the playoffs by the time you do the final wildcard spot). Make sure your league understands this now if you use tiebreakers like head to head.3) Do your wildcard tiebreaks first eliminate teams until only 1 is left from each division, ala the NFL, before comparing out of division teams against each other? Or do you do them all in one big group? In my example in #2... let's say that Team B and Team C are in the same division, while team A is in another division. The NFL would do a division tie break between B and C, and then only the winner gets to go on to the tiebreak against A. Nothing wrong with doing it your own way, just be clear so there is no confusion.

4) Do the brackets stay as originally set every round (March Madness style), or do they get reset each round so the top remaining seed plays the worst remaining seed (NFL-style). Or do you do something else, like top seeded team gets to pick their opponent. (And if so, make sure you have a deadline for them to make their selection or it gets set to something for them).

5) If you have a different tiebreak for 2-team vs 3 or more team ties as the NFL does, make sure you specify if when it gets down to 2 teams remaining, you switch to the 2-team tiebreak and start at the top of it, as the NFL does... or not if you don't follow the NFL's example.

6) If "division record" is used in your tiebreak criteria, make sure it is clear if this is used only in the division champ tiebreak or if it is also used in a wildcard tiebreak. If used in a wildcard tiebreak, be clear if it is only used if all tied teams are in the same division, if it is used only when doing an NFL-style do a division tiebreak until a division only has 1 team left in the tirebreak... or if it is used regardless

7) Do you have a tiebreak at the end of the list that will always resolve a tie, like a coinflip, or higher draft order, or worse playoff spot last year? Doesn't matter what it is, but you should end your tiebreak with something that cannot possibly be a tie.

 

[belljr]

I can't post mine from here but I follow the NLF guidlines pretty much straight with total points coming after H2H sweeps.

 

[Captain Hook]

REALLY hard to believe that people play in $ leagues that don't already have these in place.....but if that is the case, Greg gives you plenty to worth with to get tiebreakers adopted now and have them in place before the draft for next season

 

[Insein]

Ours are pretty straight forward.

~Post-Season~ Format: Top 6 teams make the playoffs. Top 2 teams get the byes regardless of division standings. Simple playoff format of 3v6, 4v5 and then winners play 1 and 2 according to record. Tiebreakers: 1. Winning Pct 2. Head to Head 3. Total Points 4. Division Record 5. Points Against Date: The playoffs will begin Week 14.

Usually doesn't get much further than that. I know 3 way ties could occur but we just refer to NFL rules for that when it occurs.

 

[GregR_2]

Ours are pretty straight forward.

~Post-Season~ Format: Top 6 teams make the playoffs. Top 2 teams get the byes regardless of division standings. Simple playoff format of 3v6, 4v5 and then winners play 1 and 2 according to record. Tiebreakers: 1. Winning Pct 2. Head to Head 3. Total Points 4. Division Record 5. Points Against Date: The playoffs will begin Week 14.

Usually doesn't get much further than that. I know 3 way ties could occur but we just refer to NFL rules for that when it occurs.

Hey Insein, this is actually a great example of what tiebreaker rules often look like, and where problems can come from them.If your league has every team play each other once, then head to head is clear cut. If you play in division twice and out of division once, now you're in that gray area of "Do we still use head to head even if teams don't play each other the same amount? Is the 1-1 team at a disadvantage that he didn't get the chance of a third game like the 2-1 team did?" You also could run into the someone thinking coming in second in a three-way tie break for 5th place means they get the 6th place playoff spot, rather than having a new tiebreak with just the remaining teams.It's a lot easier to clarify such a thing now. No one yet has a vested interest in the ruling based on how it will affect this year's seeding. So clarify it now, and if someone complains later you point back to your board post or email and say it was made clear this is how it would work, if they don't like it, propose a rule change next year.

 

[Sam Quentin]

Just get rid of h2h for fantasy tiebreakers. It doesn't make sense. Everything that makes h2h fun for weekly matchups, just the opposite is true for tiebreakers.

 

[rick6668]

Just get rid of h2h for fantasy tiebreakers. It doesn't make sense. Everything that makes h2h fun for weekly matchups, just the opposite is true for tiebreakers.

If you only played the other team once and had your 3 best players on a bye that week, it'll end up being like 2 losses.Go with Total Points.

 

[Billy Costigan Jr]

Ours is very easy.

Top 8 teams make the playoffs...one 14 team division, everyone plays each other once.

1. Overall Winning Percentage

OK, say you have 3 teams at (7-6)...go to #2

2. Total Points Scored

We've got scoring to two decimal places, and no two teams have ever had the same point totals, let alone same record AND same point totals, so I can't envision the odds of three teams with the same record AND the same point totals to two decimal points.

3. Head-To-Head Record

For two still tied teams...everyone plays each other once, so that one H2H game will be the tiebreaker. If they actually tied that game, (2 ties ever in 11 seasons) AND they had the same record AND the same point totals to two decimal points, then we'll throw them in a cage and have them fight to the death.

 

[Insein]

Just get rid of h2h for fantasy tiebreakers. It doesn't make sense. Everything that makes h2h fun for weekly matchups, just the opposite is true for tiebreakers.

Dude I said the same thing to my league mates. We've had it as Total points as the first tie breaker forever till someone noticed it last year and complained. I explained that its the fairest form of tie break since it takes all luck out of it and bases it on your team's level of play. But he had enough people vote to have H2H as the first tie break. Totally stupid imo but democracy rules.

 

[Insein]

Ours is very easy.

Top 8 teams make the playoffs...one 14 team division, everyone plays each other once.

1. Overall Winning Percentage

OK, say you have 3 teams at (7-6)...go to #2

2. Total Points Scored

We've got scoring to two decimal places, and no two teams have ever had the same point totals, let alone same record AND same point totals, so I can't envision the odds of three teams with the same record AND the same point totals to two decimal points.

3. Head-To-Head Record

For two still tied teams...everyone plays each other once, so that one H2H game will be the tiebreaker. If they actually tied that game, (2 ties ever in 11 seasons) AND they had the same record AND the same point totals to two decimal points, then we'll throw them in a cage and have them fight to the death.

Just for defying the odds alone.

 

[LTsharks]

Just get rid of h2h for fantasy tiebreakers. It doesn't make sense. Everything that makes h2h fun for weekly matchups, just the opposite is true for tiebreakers.

If you only played the other team once and had your 3 best players on a bye that week, it'll end up being like 2 losses.Go with Total Points.

I'll throw this thought out there. I think it is the best tiebreaker for h2h leagues. Instead of using actual h2h record, we use what we call "head to head breakdown record". this comes from what CBS calls (and calculates for you) breakdown record, or simply what your record would have been against each team if you played each other every week. So for tiebreaker purposes everyone has "played" the exact same number of games against each other.That way if you lost to a team in week 6 due to the randomness of the schedule, but your breakdown record against them was 8-5, you would win the tiebreaker. This is very easy to do for multiple teams, just included the breakdown records of all the teams in the tiebreaker against each other. If 3 or more teams are tied, just combine them, get the winner, then start over with the remaining teams.We do give weight to head to head record for the division winners, but for wild card spots the tiebreakers are simply:1) H2H breakdown record2) total points

 

[Insein]

Just get rid of h2h for fantasy tiebreakers. It doesn't make sense. Everything that makes h2h fun for weekly matchups, just the opposite is true for tiebreakers.

If you only played the other team once and had your 3 best players on a bye that week, it'll end up being like 2 losses.Go with Total Points.

I'll throw this thought out there. I think it is the best tiebreaker for h2h leagues. Instead of using actual h2h record, we use what we call "head to head breakdown record". this comes from what CBS calls (and calculates for you) breakdown record, or simply what your record would have been against each team if you played each other every week. So for tiebreaker purposes everyone has "played" the exact same number of games against each other.That way if you lost to a team in week 6 due to the randomness of the schedule, but your breakdown record against them was 8-5, you would win the tiebreaker. This is very easy to do for multiple teams, just included the breakdown records of all the teams in the tiebreaker against each other. If 3 or more teams are tied, just combine them, get the winner, then start over with the remaining teams.We do give weight to head to head record for the division winners, but for wild card spots the tiebreakers are simply:1) H2H breakdown record2) total points

That is a good one. I'll have to bring that up next year for the league.

 

[Northbound Train]

Great thread...I have rules in place in a pair of leagues I commish but both leagues are lining up to be a nightmare for playoff spots for me...I'm dreading the 4 o5 5 team tie-break and hoping that things sort themselves out somewhat down the stretch.

Here are my tie-breakers...

League 1

TIE-BREAKERS

Games tied in the regular season will stand as ties.

End of Season Tiebreakers - The following is the tie-breaking scheme should two or more teams have identical records at the end of the season:

Overall winning %

Head to head winning %

Division winning % (If in same division)

Total points scored

Power Rank

Virtual coin flip

League 2

TO BREAK A TIE WITHIN A DIVISION

If, at the end of the regular season, two or more clubs in the same division finish with identical won-lost-tied percentages, the following steps will be taken until a champion is determined.

Two Clubs

- Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games between the clubs).

- Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division.

- Total Points

- CBS Power Rankings

- Virtual Coin Toss

TO BREAK A TIE (NON-DIVSION)

- Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games between the clubs). If 3 or more teams are tied, one team must beat all teams in order to win the H2H tie-breaker.

- Total Point

- CBS Power Rankings

- Virtual Coin Toss

 

[Mr. Know-It-All]

Great topic as this comes up nearly every year...in my league that is in its 18th season. Each year someone wants to reinterpret the rules to find a way for their team to make the playoffs.

Our system may be flawed but it goes -

1. Top 3 seeds go to the division winners

2. Remaining seeds are determined by -

a. overall record

b. head to head

c. points scored

d. division record

e. coin flip

Top 3 seed sare determines in the same fashion if there are ties atop the divisional standings.

 

[GregR_2]

Judging by the number of threads currently in the Shark Pool on this, I probably should have bumped it more. Ah well, now's the time to learn from other league's strife.

 

[The Jerk]

1) For tiebreakers using "head-to-head" what happens when teams haven't played the same number of H2H games in a 3 or more way tie? Some leagues will consider 2-0 to be better than 3-1. Or if teams don't all play each other, you could have a 1-0 team and a 2-0 team, does one beat the other? Other leagues require all teams involved to have played the same number of games for head to head to count. The NFL only counts it if there is a team who swept all opponents, or a team who was swept by all opponents. I don't know that there is a standard "right" answer, though I think the latter is the better of the two. Regardless, if you use head to head in your leagues, and teams don't all play each other the same number of games, clarify it now.

Greg,As always, I appreciate your commissioner advice threads like this one.

I want to ask a question concerning your item 1 quoted above my post. You state that the NFL only counts head to head if there is a team who has swept all opponents, or a team who was swept by all opponents.

I agree that this is true for Wild Card tie-breakers among 3 or more clubs not in the same division. However, as I understand the official NFL tie-breakers, I see that for Division Champion tie-breakers or for Wild Card tie-breakers that involve the same division, a head-to-head sweep is NOT required. And of course, given the requirement (in the NFL and for many FF leagues) that division tie-breakers occur before interdivision tie-breakers for purposes of playoff seeding, this detail could affect even those situations in which the tied clubs do not exclusively come from the same division.

Again, as I understand it, any time 3 or more teams from the same division are tied (regardless of whether or not teams from other divisions also share the same record), the head-to-head tie-breaker can be used to break the tie even if a head-to-head SWEEP is not present.

I have bolded the two passages from the NFL tie-breaker page to show specifically where I am deriving my interpretation of the rules. Again, as I see it, should three teams from the same division be tied for a wild card (even as part of four or more overall teams tied across all divisions), given the bottom bolded line requirement that teams must first be ranked within each division before comparing across different divisions, then applying the top bolded line which states that tied clubs from the same division use the division tie breaker, and given that the division tie breaker does not specify sweep, instead stating simply best won-lost-tied record among all tied teams, then a head-to-head sweep is not required to break intradivisional ties.

The simple way to explain the head-to-head aspect of the overall tie-breaker procedures is with this summary:

Ties within a division can be broken based on best head-to-head W-L-T percentage in games among tied teams from that division, without requiring a head-to-head sweep.

Ties between teams in different divisions can only be broken by the head-to-head tie-breaker if there is a head-to-head sweep (either one team defeating all other tied teams or one team losing to all other tied teams).

TO BREAK A TIE FOR THE WILD-CARD TEAM

If it is necessary to break ties to determine the two Wild-Card clubs from each conference, the following steps will be taken.

1. If the tied clubs are from the same division, apply division tie breaker.

2. If the tied clubs are from different divisions, apply the following steps.

Two Clubs

1. Head-to-head, if applicable.

2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.

3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games, minimum of four.

4. Strength of victory.

5. Strength of schedule.

6. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.

7. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.

8. Best net points in conference games.

9. Best net points in all games.

10. Best net touchdowns in all games.

11. Coin toss.

Three or More Clubs

(Note: If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated, tie breaker reverts to step 1 of applicable two-club format.)

1. Apply division tie breaker to eliminate all but the highest ranked club in each division prior to proceeding to step 2. The original seeding within a division upon application of the division tie breaker remains the same for all subsequent applications of the procedure that are necessary to identify the two Wild-Card participants.

2. Head-to-head sweep. (Applicable only if one club has defeated each of the others or if one club has lost to each of the others.)