Points awarded for return yards? (1 Viewer)

[FFdork]

I just joined a league (I actually inquired about the scoring rules before joining and this wasn't mentioned) where the commish wanted to give 1 point for every 10 return yards . He has agreed to scale it back to 1 point for every 20, but I still don't like it. The league scoring is pretty standard otherwise, so D/ST will warrant consideration very early in the draft.

I'm not going to go into all of the reasons why I think it's a bad idea (I they'll be obvious to most people here).

Anyone in a league that does this? If so, what was the scoring system? How did it work?

 

[perry147]

I just joined a league (I actually inquired about the scoring rules before joining and this wasn't mentioned) where the commish wanted to give 1 point for every 10 return yards . He has agreed to scale it back to 1 point for every 20, but I still don't like it. The league scoring is pretty standard otherwise, so D/ST will warrant consideration very early in the draft.

I'm not going to go into all of the reasons why I think it's a bad idea (I they'll be obvious to most people here).

Anyone in a league that does this? If so, what was the scoring system? How did it work?

I played in a league once that had it and swore I would never do it again.

 

[Ever Present Lurker]

I don't mind return yards factoring in, but either of those are too much.

I played in a league one year which "featured" this system and lost my championship game to someone starting BJ Sams and Kenny Watson at RB or some other nonsense like that.

Maybe .1 points for 10 yards or something of that nature would be appropriate.

 

[Gottabesweet]

I play in a league where you get 1 pt per 25 kick return yards

and 1 pt per 20 punt return yards

It doesnt do much just makes Wes Welker a WR3 type player.

 

[FFdork]

Perhaps I should add that he's pretty hell-bent on making the 'ST' in D/ST more of a factor. I've never been a D/ST guy--I prefer nothing or IDP.

What are some good ways people have added scoring for special teams. This is set up on Yahoo, so I suspect our scoring customization is limited (it's been a few years since I tried to use Yahoo).

 

[dirtyphil]

why all the hate-

It gives a real boost to some of those lower tier WR's and RB's who return kicks- its some added value to even things out-

HOWEVER 1 pt per every ten yds is excessive I give usually 1 pt per every 25

Just think of it this way- how important is field position in a game? extremely

how much of an impact do return men have? just ask the Bears

how many players are drafted based on just their return ability and are traded on that ability? ask the dolphins and Ted Ginn, ask the Pats and Wes Welker and ask the recently departed Dante Hall and the chiefs who are really gonna miss him

It is a very important aspect of the game and should be included accordingly IMO

 

[GregR_2]

I just joined a league (I actually inquired about the scoring rules before joining and this wasn't mentioned) where the commish wanted to give 1 point for every 10 return yards . He has agreed to scale it back to 1 point for every 20, but I still don't like it. The league scoring is pretty standard otherwise, so D/ST will warrant consideration very early in the draft.

I'm not going to go into all of the reasons why I think it's a bad idea (I they'll be obvious to most people here).

Anyone in a league that does this? If so, what was the scoring system? How did it work?

I'd check the actual scoring results from last year with the scoring system before I'd worry about objecting. Bad defenses mean they get scored on more, which means they get more kickoffs to return than the good defenses. So as long as the kickoff scoring doesn't completely overwhelm the other scoring categories, it will tend to make defenses LESS valuable, not more, since the difference between the good and bad ones is eroded.Though 1/10 may be so many points it makes the other stuff less significant. So anyway, if you haven't actually checked real results yet, give it a look with different values and I think you'll be able to find some ways to incorporate it that don't make defenses more valuable on average.

 

[ATC1]

I play a couple of IDP leagues with return yards and punters. It helps the DB's score. Somewhat with the Wrs.

But if you do a D/ST I think it is more realistic in the special teams aspect. Why not? It allows every facet of the game to be used. A team gets a good return on a kickoff it actually hurts the offensive players.

We do 1/10 PR, 1/20 KR.

 

[FFdork]

I play in a league where you get 1 pt per 25 kick return yards and 1 pt per 20 punt return yardsIt doesnt do much just makes Wes Welker a WR3 type player.

Right but this isn't for individual players, you get a team's entire return yardsage as part of your D/ST scoring.

 

[FFdork]

why all the hate-It gives a real boost to some of those lower tier WR's and RB's who return kicks- its some added value to even things out-

Again, not for individual players, but the entire team as part of D/ST. A team with a crap defense and good return game would rival LT in scoring.To use a real world example, the Colts would have scored 22 points in the return game alone in the Superbowl. They averaged 22 yards per kickoff return and 14 per punt (7 returns for 225 total), with a long of 28. Does that warrant 22 points? I don't even think it's worth 9 points, which is what 1/25 yards total would net. It's just not a very good measure of doing something well. Awarding points for averaging a certain amount in return yards would make more sense.

 

[Howling Mad]

I don't mind kick return yards for individual players and it's something like 1 point per 50 yds, but it's a terrible idea to add to the DEF/ST position as it is basically rewarding a defense for letting the other team score often. A Special Teams unit is only locked into making one kick return per game, Beyond that all kick returns are the result of the opposing team scoring, so a crappy DEF will get more kick returns thus resulting a higher return yardage total.

In short: Most Defenses that rack up a lot of kick return yards are lousy and should not be given inflated fantasy value simply because they get more opportunities to return kicks.

Punt return yards are ok for DEF/ST, as it's not the result of them just being unable to prevent the other team from scoring

 

[Howling Mad]

I see someone beat me to the punch.

 

[FinHead]

One year we decided to tweak our scoring by adding individual return yards at 1 pt for 10 yards. After Dante Hall's first big week, the team that had him on the bench dropped him figuring he'd never repeat that performance. I had first waiver priority and snagged him. He was one of my top WRs for the rest of the season. By the end of the season, most of the teams were using return guys and one guy was using return men for 3 of his positions. Teams were dropping legitimate WRs and RBs just to use guys hoping for those 200 yard return games.

It really ####ed up our scoring that year so we'll never use it again.

 

[CalBear]

why all the hate-It gives a real boost to some of those lower tier WR's and RB's who return kicks- its some added value to even things out-

Again, not for individual players, but the entire team as part of D/ST. A team with a crap defense and good return game would rival LT in scoring.To use a real world example, the Colts would have scored 22 points in the return game alone in the Superbowl. They averaged 22 yards per kickoff return and 14 per punt (7 returns for 225 total), with a long of 28. Does that warrant 22 points? I don't even think it's worth 9 points, which is what 1/25 yards total would net. It's just not a very good measure of doing something well. Awarding points for averaging a certain amount in return yards would make more sense.

When D/ST gets credit for return yards, there tends to be very little difference over the course of the year between different D/ST units. So don't worry about it, it really doesn't affect the game very much.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I think this is fine -- if you're starting a returner as a unique position.

Otherwise it actually makes the RB and WR depth so great that it dilutes the importance of both positions. Everyone's ends up with enough good players whether they are good drafters or not.

If it's done as part of the D/ST, it rewards really crappy defenses that surrender a lot of KRs. Again leveling the playing field and reducing the importance of being smart in your draft.

 

[SSOG]

If anyone ever played the Salary Cap Fantasy Football at TSN, they reward return yards, but I really like the way they do it. Essentially, every punt return yard is worth as much as 1 yard rushing or 1 yard receiving, which is fine by me- field position is field position, and punt returners get so few chances that it doesn't make them viable fantasy plays unless they're real studs. It also rewards kickoff return yards HALF AS MUCH, *and* gives what amounts to a -1 point penalty for every kickoff return (to account for the fact that the first 20 yards on a kickoff return are generally free, uncontested yards- you only score points on kickoff returns if you're averaging more than 20 yards a return).

I played in a league the last two seasons that rewards defenses for return yards, and I really don't like it. The most bizarre defenses wind up becoming quality fantasy defenses. It really REDUCES the importance of a defense (since crappy defenses like KC become as valuable as Baltimore) and it makes defensive scoring much more unpredictable.

 

[Ozymandias]

Our league rewards return yardage at half the level of receiving yardage for individuals only. Welker ranked #33 among receivers with 687 yards and 1442 return yardage. No big deal.

Because we use IDP, it bumps up some, like Terrence McGee, but no big deal. They get most of their points from defensive play.

 

[massraider]

I have never seen it for team D/ST, and that scoring is certainly high.

I love it for individual players, as it is one more facet to be considered when building a team, and is one more edge for the hard-working owner. Even if I did lose my Super Bowl because of McGee a few years back .

But for team scoring, it seems to reward teams that would have just allowed the most scores, as the bulk of return yards comes on kickoffs.

In a system like that, the D/ST scoring would be high for almost ALL defenses. At that point, it's boring, and removes the strategy of which and when defense to draft.

 

[m_sell31]

If anyone ever played the Salary Cap Fantasy Football at TSN, they reward return yards, but I really like the way they do it. Essentially, every punt return yard is worth as much as 1 yard rushing or 1 yard receiving, which is fine by me- field position is field position, and punt returners get so few chances that it doesn't make them viable fantasy plays unless they're real studs. It also rewards kickoff return yards HALF AS MUCH, *and* gives what amounts to a -1 point penalty for every kickoff return (to account for the fact that the first 20 yards on a kickoff return are generally free, uncontested yards- you only score points on kickoff returns if you're averaging more than 20 yards a return).I played in a league the last two seasons that rewards defenses for return yards, and I really don't like it. The most bizarre defenses wind up becoming quality fantasy defenses. It really REDUCES the importance of a defense (since crappy defenses like KC become as valuable as Baltimore) and it makes defensive scoring much more unpredictable.

In my league we get 1 pt for ever 20 return yards, any type, for any player including IDP. We have enough starting positions to where we almost need the few players this actually helps for our bye week sub type players. This makes it to where your not starting a poor pasing teams #3 WR or other players that should not be played. In all honesty it makes about 5 players a year worth starting on a regular basis and maybe 10 that are worth rostering, and thats in a 14 team league that starts 15 players each week per team. So one in every 3 teams might start a return guy on a weekly basis. In my opinion thats no big deal. It makes a crappy Miami Dolphins game on a monday night alot more enjoyable when you get to watch Welker return kicks and hope he does/doesn't rip off a big one. And isnt that what its all about? Increasing the value and please of watching all the games? Here are the players it helped the most; Wes Welker, Micheal Turner, Maurice Jones-Drew, Adam Jones, Bobby Wade, Micheal Pitman, Dante Hall, Devin Hester, Justin Miller, Terrence McGee, Maurice Hicks. Of those players only Hicks, Hester, Hall, and Wade would not deseve to be on a roster in a non return yard league. So it added 4 more players of valuer and inhanced the value of 5 to 10 more players. Nothing major, just another twist to make things more interesting.

 

[m_sell31]

But for team scoring, it seems to reward teams that would have just allowed the most scores, as the bulk of return yards comes on kickoffs.In a system like that, the D/ST scoring would be high for almost ALL defenses. At that point, it's boring, and removes the strategy of which and when defense to draft.

Totally agree with that.

 

[thayman]

It seems a little skewed....offer up a suggestion of maybe having a return team. If being in this league is that important to you.....

 

[Pictus Cat]

If your on this site, you can account for it better than your peers. Herman's FBG Returner guys article would help. Consider it an advantage to you. Figure out the VBD with this factor in. Target the value D/STs. Don't get stuck on 'it's not what I'm used to.' Good luck.

 

[FFdork]

If your on this site, you can account for it better than your peers. Herman's FBG Returner guys article would help. Consider it an advantage to you. Figure out the VBD with this factor in. Target the value D/STs. Don't get stuck on 'it's not what I'm used to.' Good luck.

You're right, and I feel this way about most scoring rules. I wasn't really concerned about my ability to compete--my beef was simply that it's a dumb rule. I guess in a larger sense my concern was that if the commish couldn't see why it wasn't a great idea, what other crazy things he was going to come up with?BTW, we talked him out of the idea, so thanks for everyone's input. I actually quoted several people when I presented my argument.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

I don't mind kick return yards for individual players and it's something like 1 point per 50 yds, but it's a terrible idea to add to the DEF/ST position as it is basically rewarding a defense for letting the other team score often.

 

[msommer]

I like return yards for individual players - not for D/ST - mind you I've gone completely IDP so D/ST is not something I use ever

 

[heckmanm]

My league has separate DEF and ST lineup positions, so you can have both a good defense AND a good ST squad.

ST points are awarded:

1/30 return yards
1/punt inside 20
6 return TD
2 blocked FG or punt
-2 having a punt blocked by opponentEdit: 16-team league with pretty standard scoring otherwise (1/10 rush/rec, PPR for TE only), starting 1QB, 1RB, 2WR, 1TE, 2FLEX, K, DEF, ST.

For 2006, our ST total points ranged from 57 (Pittsburgh) to 139 (Chicago). By comparison, DEF points ranged from 47 (WAS) to 212 (BAL). Chicago was #2 in DEF scoring as well as #1 in ST scoring, so it doesn't always reward bad defenses.

 

[SSOG]

My league has separate DEF and ST lineup positions, so you can have both a good defense AND a good ST squad.

ST points are awarded:

1/30 return yards
1/punt inside 20
6 return TD
2 blocked FG or punt
-2 having a punt blocked by opponentEdit: 16-team league with pretty standard scoring otherwise (1/10 rush/rec, PPR for TE only), starting 1QB, 1RB, 2WR, 1TE, 2FLEX, K, DEF, ST.

For 2006, our ST total points ranged from 57 (Pittsburgh) to 139 (Chicago). By comparison, DEF points ranged from 47 (WAS) to 212 (BAL). Chicago was #2 in DEF scoring as well as #1 in ST scoring, so it doesn't always reward bad defenses.

I like the idea of drafting a separate special teams, but if you DO do that, I really think the PK position should be merged with it (since PKs are, in fact, special teamers ). A scoring system like that, +1 point per point scored by the kicker (so 1 for a XP, 3 for a FG, 6 for a rushing/passing/receiving TD by the kicker), would be great- plus, it would reduce my biggest criticism of PKs (they're generally a crapshoot and wholly inconsistant from week to week).