Police State / Drug War thread (1 Viewer)

[Chaka]

Honest question: so this device can't cause permanent hearing loss?

I am not an expert, but from what I remember- they do not have any long term issues like hearing loss if used properly i.e. the right distance, short bursts and/or level. Above the 140 decibel level you are at risk of hearing damage even in short bursts. The really powerful one shown on Futureweapons tops out at 150. (you can see the green, yellow, red on the volume level). Which is about what a rock concert is.

And I am sure we can trust the highly educated, experienced and trained members of the Chicago police department to not misuse this equipment.

 

[Chaka]

Post obscene abuses of power by police, military and associated authority figures in this thread right here.

Here's one: Man Loses $22,000 in New 'Policing For Profit' Case

Pretty sure loss of the use of your legs would cover the 22k theft.

What are you talking about?

people that steal large sums of money might not be able to walk in the future

Same for people who lie down on train tracks.

 

[ren hoek]

 

[ren hoek]

Ana Kasparian explains how Louisiana sheriffs are motivated to incarcerate

Louisiana now the prison capital of the world. Nothing to see here huh Chad?

 

[ren hoek]

http://www.purpleberets.org/violence_police_families.html

Domestic violence 2-4x more likely in police families.

 

[Gr00vus]

Some good news on this front:

Federal judge writes injunction against NDAA. She states that the portion of the NDAA allowing the military to indefinitely detain "anyone it accuses of knowingly or unknowingly supporting terrorism ... failed to "pass constitutional muster" because its broad language could be used to quash political dissent." Full text of story below. Here's a link to the full documentation of the ruling (68 pages worth).

Judge Blocks Controversial NDAA

By ADAM KLASFELD Tweet

MANHATTAN (CN) - A federal judge granted a preliminary injunction late Wednesday to block provisions of the 2012 National Defense Authorization Act that would allow the military to indefinitely detain anyone it accuses of knowingly or unknowingly supporting terrorism.

Signed by President Barack Obama on New Year's Eve, the 565-page NDAA contains a short paragraph, in statute 1021, letting the military detain anyone it suspects "substantially supported" al-Qaida, the Taliban or "associated forces." The indefinite detention would supposedly last until "the end of hostilities."

In a 68-page ruling blocking this statute, U.S. District Judge Katherine Forrest agreed that the statute failed to "pass constitutional muster" because its broad language could be used to quash political dissent.

"There is a strong public interest in protecting rights guaranteed by the First Amendment," Forrest wrote. "There is also a strong public interest in ensuring that due process rights guaranteed by the Fifth Amendment are protected by ensuring that ordinary citizens are able to understand the scope of conduct that could subject them to indefinite military detention."

Weeks after Obama signed the law, Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Chris Hedges filed a lawsuit against its so-called "Homeland Battlefield" provisions.

Several prominent activists, scholars and politicians subsequently joined the suit, including Pentagon Papers whistle-blower Daniel Ellsberg; Massachusetts Institute of Technology professor Noam Chomsky; Icelandic parliamentarian Birgitta Jonsdottir; Kai Wargalla, an organizer from Occupy London; and Alexa O'Brien, an organizer for the New York-based activist group U.S. Day of Rage.

They call themselves the Freedom Seven.

In a signing statement, Obama contended that the language in Section 1021 "breaks no new ground" and merely restates the 2001 Authorization to Use Military Force (AUMF).

Government lawyers whistled the same tune to swat away the lawsuit, but they failed to convince the judge that no changes had been made.

"Section 1021 tries to do too much with too little - it lacks the minimal requirements of definition and scienter that could easily have been added, or could be added, to allow it to pass constitutional muster," Forrest wrote.

Scienter refers to a person's knowledge that a law is being violated.

"For the reasons set forth below, this court finds that § 1021 is not merely an 'affirmation' of the AUMF," Forrest wrote. "To so hold would be contrary to basic principles of legislative interpretation that require Congressional enactments to be given independent meaning. To find that § 1021 is merely an 'affirmation' of the AUMF would require this court to find that § 1021 is a mere redundancy - that is, that it has no independent meaning and adds absolutely nothing to the government's enforcement powers."

Brushing aside that argument, Judge Forrest took aim at government arguments that the NDAA did not affect Hedges and his co-plaintiffs personally.

"Here, the uncontradicted testimony at the evidentiary hearing was that the plaintiffs have in fact lost certain First Amendment freedoms as a result of the enactment of § 1021," Forrest wrote.

At a hearing in March, three of the plaintiffs testified that the possibility of government repression under the NDAA made them reconsider how they approached their journalism and activism.

Guardian journalist Naomi Wolf read testimony from Jonsditir, who prepared a statement saying that she would not visit the U.S. for fear of detention.

Forrest alluded to this testimony in her decision.

"Hedges, Wargalla, and Jonsdottir have changed certain associational conduct, and O'Brien and Jonsdittir have avoided certain expressive conduct, because of their concerns about § 1021. Moreover, since plaintiffs continue to have their associational and expressive conduct chilled, there is both actual and continued threatened irreparable harm," she wrote.

"In addition, it is certainly the case that if plaintiffs were detained as a result of their conduct, they could be detained until the cessation of hostilities - i.e., an indeterminate period of time," Forrest continued. "Being subjected to the risk of such detention, particularly in light of the Government's inability to represent that plaintiffs' conduct does not fall with § 1021, must constitute a threat of irreparable harm. The question then is: Is that harm immediate? Since the Government will not say that the conduct does not fall outside of §1021, one cannot predict immediacy one way or the other. The penalty we know would be severe."

The judge added that she did not make the decision lightly.

"This court is acutely aware that preliminarily enjoining an act of Congress must be done with great caution," she wrote. "However, it is the responsibility of our judicial system to protect the public from acts of Congress which infringe upon constitutional rights. As set forth above, this court has found that plaintiffs have shown a likelihood of success on the merits regarding their constitutional claim and it therefore has a responsibility to insure that the public's constitutional rights are protected."

In a phone conference, the plaintiffs' attorneys Bruce Afran and Carl Mayer hailed what they called a "complete victory." "America is more free today than it was yesterday due to the courageous and righteous and very sound ruling by Judge Forrest," Mayer said. "I think this is a hugely significant development... I think it's also a testament to the courage of the plaintiffs here."

One of those plaintiffs, O'Brien, was also jubilant in a separate interview.

"I am extremely happy right now, and what I'm most happy about it is that this ruling has given me trust," O'Brien said, "Trust is the foundation of just and stable governments, and this ruling gives me hope that we can restore trust in the foundations of government."

While the U.S. Attorney's office declined comment on the ruling, Mayer urged the Obama administration to "drop it," and forego an appeal.

"They have to come to terms with the fact that it's wholly unconstitutional," Mayer said.

 

[ren hoek]

DEA murders innocent civilians in Honduras:

The newspaper Tiempo did not pull any punches, writing that those killed "were humble and honest citizens." Apparently, the DEA agents fired from helicopter gunships upon a boat carrying civilians on the Patuca back to their community of Ahuas which itself is located in the Mosquito coast of Honduras. According to Tiempo, the DEA mistakenly fired upon the civilian boat because it was well-lit while the intended target -- a boat carrying drug traffickers -- was floating down the river without its lights on.

So sickening that Americans continue to stand for this garbage. People wonder why I'm sick of my tax dollars funding #### like this. End this nonsense. Vote for Paul/Johnson.

 

[ren hoek]

FBI entrapment is inventing terrorists

 

[NCCommish]

Some good news on this front:

Federal judge writes injunction against NDAA. She states that the portion of the NDAA allowing the military to indefinitely detain "anyone it accuses of knowingly or unknowingly supporting terrorism ... failed to "pass constitutional muster" because its broad language could be used to quash political dissent." Full text of story below. Here's a link to the full documentation of the ruling (68 pages worth).

Judge Blocks Controversial NDAA

By ADAM KLASFELD Tweet

MANHATTAN (CN) - A federal judge granted a preliminary injunction late Wednesday to block provisions of the 2012 National Defense Authorization Act that would allow the military to indefinitely detain anyone it accuses of knowingly or unknowingly supporting terrorism.

Signed by President Barack Obama on New Year's Eve, the 565-page NDAA contains a short paragraph, in statute 1021, letting the military detain anyone it suspects "substantially supported" al-Qaida, the Taliban or "associated forces." The indefinite detention would supposedly last until "the end of hostilities."

In a 68-page ruling blocking this statute, U.S. District Judge Katherine Forrest agreed that the statute failed to "pass constitutional muster" because its broad language could be used to quash political dissent.

"There is a strong public interest in protecting rights guaranteed by the First Amendment," Forrest wrote. "There is also a strong public interest in ensuring that due process rights guaranteed by the Fifth Amendment are protected by ensuring that ordinary citizens are able to understand the scope of conduct that could subject them to indefinite military detention."

Weeks after Obama signed the law, Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Chris Hedges filed a lawsuit against its so-called "Homeland Battlefield" provisions.

Several prominent activists, scholars and politicians subsequently joined the suit, including Pentagon Papers whistle-blower Daniel Ellsberg; Massachusetts Institute of Technology professor Noam Chomsky; Icelandic parliamentarian Birgitta Jonsdottir; Kai Wargalla, an organizer from Occupy London; and Alexa O'Brien, an organizer for the New York-based activist group U.S. Day of Rage.

They call themselves the Freedom Seven.

In a signing statement, Obama contended that the language in Section 1021 "breaks no new ground" and merely restates the 2001 Authorization to Use Military Force (AUMF).

Government lawyers whistled the same tune to swat away the lawsuit, but they failed to convince the judge that no changes had been made.

"Section 1021 tries to do too much with too little - it lacks the minimal requirements of definition and scienter that could easily have been added, or could be added, to allow it to pass constitutional muster," Forrest wrote.

Scienter refers to a person's knowledge that a law is being violated.

"For the reasons set forth below, this court finds that § 1021 is not merely an 'affirmation' of the AUMF," Forrest wrote. "To so hold would be contrary to basic principles of legislative interpretation that require Congressional enactments to be given independent meaning. To find that § 1021 is merely an 'affirmation' of the AUMF would require this court to find that § 1021 is a mere redundancy - that is, that it has no independent meaning and adds absolutely nothing to the government's enforcement powers."

Brushing aside that argument, Judge Forrest took aim at government arguments that the NDAA did not affect Hedges and his co-plaintiffs personally.

"Here, the uncontradicted testimony at the evidentiary hearing was that the plaintiffs have in fact lost certain First Amendment freedoms as a result of the enactment of § 1021," Forrest wrote.

At a hearing in March, three of the plaintiffs testified that the possibility of government repression under the NDAA made them reconsider how they approached their journalism and activism.

Guardian journalist Naomi Wolf read testimony from Jonsditir, who prepared a statement saying that she would not visit the U.S. for fear of detention.

Forrest alluded to this testimony in her decision.

"Hedges, Wargalla, and Jonsdottir have changed certain associational conduct, and O'Brien and Jonsdittir have avoided certain expressive conduct, because of their concerns about § 1021. Moreover, since plaintiffs continue to have their associational and expressive conduct chilled, there is both actual and continued threatened irreparable harm," she wrote.

"In addition, it is certainly the case that if plaintiffs were detained as a result of their conduct, they could be detained until the cessation of hostilities - i.e., an indeterminate period of time," Forrest continued. "Being subjected to the risk of such detention, particularly in light of the Government's inability to represent that plaintiffs' conduct does not fall with § 1021, must constitute a threat of irreparable harm. The question then is: Is that harm immediate? Since the Government will not say that the conduct does not fall outside of §1021, one cannot predict immediacy one way or the other. The penalty we know would be severe."

The judge added that she did not make the decision lightly.

"This court is acutely aware that preliminarily enjoining an act of Congress must be done with great caution," she wrote. "However, it is the responsibility of our judicial system to protect the public from acts of Congress which infringe upon constitutional rights. As set forth above, this court has found that plaintiffs have shown a likelihood of success on the merits regarding their constitutional claim and it therefore has a responsibility to insure that the public's constitutional rights are protected."

In a phone conference, the plaintiffs' attorneys Bruce Afran and Carl Mayer hailed what they called a "complete victory." "America is more free today than it was yesterday due to the courageous and righteous and very sound ruling by Judge Forrest," Mayer said. "I think this is a hugely significant development... I think it's also a testament to the courage of the plaintiffs here."

One of those plaintiffs, O'Brien, was also jubilant in a separate interview.

"I am extremely happy right now, and what I'm most happy about it is that this ruling has given me trust," O'Brien said, "Trust is the foundation of just and stable governments, and this ruling gives me hope that we can restore trust in the foundations of government."

While the U.S. Attorney's office declined comment on the ruling, Mayer urged the Obama administration to "drop it," and forego an appeal.

"They have to come to terms with the fact that it's wholly unconstitutional," Mayer said.

The House voted Friday to reject an amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) which would have prevented the government from holding terrorism suspects captured in the U.S. in indefinite military detention. An amendment by Reps. Adam Smith (D) and Justin Amash ® failed 182-231, while a separate amendment confirming that U.S. citizens had habeas corpus rights passed 243-173.

“It’s a shame that the House of Representatives has turned its back on our nation’s security and the rule of law,” Human Rights First’s Raha Wala said in a statement. “Last year, Americans of all political persuasions were dismayed when politicians approved indefinite detention that could extend here in the United States. Today, the House missed opportunity to change course and realign counterterrorism policy with American values.”

A federal judge had blocked portions of the NDAA, saying the law’s language was “sufficiently vague that no ordinary citizen can reliably define” the conduct that allows the government to hold a person indefinitely.

 

[ren hoek]

Chicago "activists" pre-emptively jailed, without charge and apparently without a warrant. I'm pretty weary on the idea of linking to Alex Jones, but this story appears to be troof.

http://www.infowars.com/chicago-cops-disappear-activists-ahead-of-nato-war-council/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Video: http://www.nbcchicago.com/video/#!/news/local/video-override/NLG-Spokesman-Details-Alleged-Arrests/151989345

 

[Christo]

Come to Chicago next week if you want to see a "police state" in action.

Give me a break.

Damn, I haven't been hassled by a pig once this week!

 

[Christo]

Never volunteer anything to the police.Do you have a large amount of cash? The answer is no.Can I search your car? The answer is no.

I'm not sure I understand this. It doesn't seem like he volunteered the part about the cash, at least the way I read the article. It seems like he was asked directly by the cop.Are you legally allowed to lie to a cop when he asks a question like that? I get that the cop would have had no way of knowing that he was lying. But I've always been taught that the best way to handle a traffic stop is to answer all questions honestly but to never consent to a search, even if you are doing nothing wrong.For instance, in this situation, let's say the guy says "no" when asked if he has a large amount of cash, but then the cop decides that he smells weed in the car and searches it based on what he will say is probably cause. Then he finds the money. Now, the guy has lied about that part...how does that impact him going forward?

What's a "large" amount of cash?

 

[SacramentoBob]

Never volunteer anything to the police.Do you have a large amount of cash? The answer is no.Can I search your car? The answer is no.

I'm not sure I understand this. It doesn't seem like he volunteered the part about the cash, at least the way I read the article. It seems like he was asked directly by the cop.Are you legally allowed to lie to a cop when he asks a question like that? I get that the cop would have had no way of knowing that he was lying. But I've always been taught that the best way to handle a traffic stop is to answer all questions honestly but to never consent to a search, even if you are doing nothing wrong.For instance, in this situation, let's say the guy says "no" when asked if he has a large amount of cash, but then the cop decides that he smells weed in the car and searches it based on what he will say is probably cause. Then he finds the money. Now, the guy has lied about that part...how does that impact him going forward?

What's a "large" amount of cash?

Anything more than $78.

 

[Christo]

Never volunteer anything to the police.Do you have a large amount of cash? The answer is no.Can I search your car? The answer is no.

I'm not sure I understand this. It doesn't seem like he volunteered the part about the cash, at least the way I read the article. It seems like he was asked directly by the cop.Are you legally allowed to lie to a cop when he asks a question like that? I get that the cop would have had no way of knowing that he was lying. But I've always been taught that the best way to handle a traffic stop is to answer all questions honestly but to never consent to a search, even if you are doing nothing wrong.For instance, in this situation, let's say the guy says "no" when asked if he has a large amount of cash, but then the cop decides that he smells weed in the car and searches it based on what he will say is probably cause. Then he finds the money. Now, the guy has lied about that part...how does that impact him going forward?

What's a "large" amount of cash?

Anything more than $78.

Maybe at homelessguys.com.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Never volunteer anything to the police.Do you have a large amount of cash? The answer is no.Can I search your car? The answer is no.

I'm not sure I understand this. It doesn't seem like he volunteered the part about the cash, at least the way I read the article. It seems like he was asked directly by the cop.Are you legally allowed to lie to a cop when he asks a question like that? I get that the cop would have had no way of knowing that he was lying. But I've always been taught that the best way to handle a traffic stop is to answer all questions honestly but to never consent to a search, even if you are doing nothing wrong.For instance, in this situation, let's say the guy says "no" when asked if he has a large amount of cash, but then the cop decides that he smells weed in the car and searches it based on what he will say is probably cause. Then he finds the money. Now, the guy has lied about that part...how does that impact him going forward?

What's a "large" amount of cash?

Anything more than $78.

Maybe at homelessguys.com.

You most post on the idonthaveanamexblackcardguys.com forums.

 

[Chairshot]

Never volunteer anything to the police.Do you have a large amount of cash? The answer is no.Can I search your car? The answer is no.

I'm not sure I understand this. It doesn't seem like he volunteered the part about the cash, at least the way I read the article. It seems like he was asked directly by the cop.Are you legally allowed to lie to a cop when he asks a question like that? I get that the cop would have had no way of knowing that he was lying. But I've always been taught that the best way to handle a traffic stop is to answer all questions honestly but to never consent to a search, even if you are doing nothing wrong.For instance, in this situation, let's say the guy says "no" when asked if he has a large amount of cash, but then the cop decides that he smells weed in the car and searches it based on what he will say is probably cause. Then he finds the money. Now, the guy has lied about that part...how does that impact him going forward?

What's a "large" amount of cash?

I see what you did there. Still, my question remains: am I allowed to legally lie to a cop when asked a direct question?

 

[Christo]

Never volunteer anything to the police.Do you have a large amount of cash? The answer is no.Can I search your car? The answer is no.

I'm not sure I understand this. It doesn't seem like he volunteered the part about the cash, at least the way I read the article. It seems like he was asked directly by the cop.Are you legally allowed to lie to a cop when he asks a question like that? I get that the cop would have had no way of knowing that he was lying. But I've always been taught that the best way to handle a traffic stop is to answer all questions honestly but to never consent to a search, even if you are doing nothing wrong.For instance, in this situation, let's say the guy says "no" when asked if he has a large amount of cash, but then the cop decides that he smells weed in the car and searches it based on what he will say is probably cause. Then he finds the money. Now, the guy has lied about that part...how does that impact him going forward?

What's a "large" amount of cash?

I see what you did there. Still, my question remains: am I allowed to legally lie to a cop when asked a direct question?

It's an ambiguous question--by design. And, it depends. There is a federal statute which makes it a crime to lie to the FBI. I don't know about all of the states. But, my point still stands. How do you know what the cop believes is a large amount of cash?

 

[Ilov80s]

Never volunteer anything to the police.Do you have a large amount of cash? The answer is no.Can I search your car? The answer is no.

I'm not sure I understand this. It doesn't seem like he volunteered the part about the cash, at least the way I read the article. It seems like he was asked directly by the cop.Are you legally allowed to lie to a cop when he asks a question like that? I get that the cop would have had no way of knowing that he was lying. But I've always been taught that the best way to handle a traffic stop is to answer all questions honestly but to never consent to a search, even if you are doing nothing wrong.For instance, in this situation, let's say the guy says "no" when asked if he has a large amount of cash, but then the cop decides that he smells weed in the car and searches it based on what he will say is probably cause. Then he finds the money. Now, the guy has lied about that part...how does that impact him going forward?

What's a "large" amount of cash?

I see what you did there. Still, my question remains: am I allowed to legally lie to a cop when asked a direct question?

It's an ambiguous question--by design. And, it depends. There is a federal statute which makes it a crime to lie to the FBI. I don't know about all of the states. But, my point still stands. How do you know what the cop believes is a large amount of cash?

Would you say this is a spot where it is better to ask for forgiveness than permission in the sense it is better to try and explain away the "lie" based on the technicality/ambiguity as opposed to asking the officer what constitutes a large amount of cash?

 

[Chadstroma]

Come to Chicago next week if you want to see a "police state" in action.

Give me a break.

Damn, I haven't been hassled by a pig once this week!

What an incompetent police state we have.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Come to Chicago next week if you want to see a "police state" in action.

Give me a break.

Damn, I haven't been hassled by a pig once this week!

What an incompetent police state we have.

Police states these days are soft. Back in the day, they really knew how to oppress people.

 

[ren hoek]

Some of you guys sure like being slaves.

 

[ren hoek]

LA police protecting and serving citizens from raw milk distributors

http://www.naturalnews.com/035895_food_police_raw_milk_confiscation.html

 

[ren hoek]

Under Asset Forfeiture Law, Wisconsin Cops Confiscate Families' Bail Money

This is straight up legalized theft. What a joke.

 

[ren hoek]

Lamp posts that can set up a surveillance grid. Awesome.

Big Brother lampposts launched in America can see, hear, and talk to you

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Under Asset Forfeiture Law, Wisconsin Cops Confiscate Families' Bail Money

This is straight up legalized theft. What a joke.

This one needs attention. Straight up absurd.

 

[cosjobs]

Post obscene abuses of power by police, military and associated authority figures in this thread right here.

Here's one: Man Loses $22,000 in New 'Policing For Profit' Case

This has been going on for a long time. Sheriff Bob Vogel was doing this on I-95 outside Daytona 20 years ago.

A Monterey police officer wanted to know if he was carrying any large amounts of cash.

"I said, 'Around $20,000,'" he recalled. "Then, at the point, he said, 'Do you mind if I search your vehicle?' I said, 'No, I don't mind.' I certainly didn't feel I was doing anything wrong. It was my money."

That's when Officer Larry Bates confiscated the cash based on his suspicion that it was drug money.

Never volunteer anything to the police.Do you have a large amount of cash? The answer is no.

Can I search your car? The answer is no.

and never keep all your money in one pocket

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Generally, the person usually has a due process right to a hearing for forfeitures like this, but I've litigated a few and it's an uphill battle for sure. Hate seeing this stuff.

agreed. That they allow this crap to occur ex parte is unbelievable.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

That's good advice Christo, but in reality police have a way of 'finding' just cause to search when you tell them 'no'.

Not unless they're really willing to hang something on you. Most are just looking for low hanging fruit. It falls in the "it never hurts to ask" column.

He allowed the officer to search. Why should he expect that having a large amount of cash is enough reason in itself to have it confiscated? I can't find the article now, but around two years ago, the Detroit Free Press had an article that Michigan's police are confiscating money and possessions are a record level. Many of the people having their possessions taken are not being charged or convicted of any crimes and many are finding it difficult to get their possessions back.

here's the FBG thread on the subject. (had to search seizures cuz foos spellt forfeiture wrong) this is the article

Police property seizures ensnare even the innocent<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Money raised by Metro Detroit agencies increases 50% in five years<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">George Hunter and Doug Guthrie / The Detroit News<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Local law enforcement agencies are raising millions of dollars by seizing private property suspected in crimes, but often without charges being filed -- and sometimes even when authorities admit no offense was committed.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">The money raised by confiscating goods in Metro Detroit soared more than 50 percent to at least $20.62 million from 2003 to 2007, according to a Detroit News analysis of records from 58 law enforcement agencies. In some communities, amounts raised went from tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands -- and, in one case, into the millions.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"It's like legalized stealing," said Jacque Sutton, a 21-year-old college student from Mount Clemens whose 1989 Mustang was seized by Detroit police raiding a party. Charges against him and more than 100 others were dropped, but he still paid more than $1,000 to get the car back.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Advertisement<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"According to the law, I did nothing wrong -- but they're allowed to take my property anyway. It doesn't make sense."<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">While courts have maintained the government's right to take property involved in crimes, police seizures -- also known as forfeitures -- are a growing source of friction in Michigan, especially as law enforcement agencies struggle to balance budgets.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"Police departments right now are looking for ways to generate revenue, and forfeiture is a way to offset the costs of doing business," said Sgt. Dave Schreiner, who runs Canton Township's forfeiture unit, which raised $343,699 in 2008. "You'll find that departments are doing more forfeitures than they used to because they've got to -- they're running out of money and they've got to find it somewhere."<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">The increase in property seizures merely is a byproduct of diligent law enforcement, some law enforcement officials say.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"We're trying to fight crime," said Police Chief Mike Pachla of Roseville, where the money raised from forfeitures jumped more than tenfold, from $33,890 to $393,014.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"We would be just as aggressive even if there wasn't any money involved."<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Roseville had among the most dramatic increases over the five-year period examined by The News. But several other agencies also more than doubled their takes, including Novi, Trenton, Farmington Hills, Southfield, the Michigan State Police, Shelby Township, Livonia, Warren and Romulus.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">The increase in money coming in leads to a higher percentage of the police budget being covered by seizures. In Roseville, the share of the police budget raised from forfeitures went from 0.3 percent to 4.2 percent. In Romulus, it jumped from 4.5 percent to 11.2 percent from 2003-2007, the most recent years for which comparable records were available. Some agencies said records weren't available.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Police and prosecutors profit because citizens must either pay to get their confiscated property back or lose their cars, homes and other seized assets to the arresting agencies, which auction them off.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">The increased reliance on seized property to fund police operations amounts to a trade-off for law enforcement. The tough economy may be prompting law enforcement agencies to use an "entrepreneurial spirit," but that makes for bad public relations, said Tom Hendrickson, director of the Michigan Association of Chiefs of Police.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Courts support seizures<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">The friction over seizures is a result of two competing legacies in U.S. law. While the Fourth Amendment, adopted in 1791, protects the right of citizens to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures, the Supreme Court ruled in 1827 that a Spanish-owned ship could be seized after it fired on a U.S. vessel. Whether or not the crew was convicted, the brig was the principal offender, it ruled.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">And 169 years later, the nation's high court reaffirmed the notion when it ruled that a Royal Oak woman couldn't challenge the seizure of the family sedan after her husband was caught having sex with a prostitute inside, even though she didn't know the car was being used for that purpose.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Just last month, the high court heard the case of six people from Chicago who sought prompt hearings on the seizure of their cars and money. When a federal attorney told the court the government needs time to determine who owns a car and to investigate that person's connection to the criminal activity, Justice Sonia Sotomayor said: "I'm sorry. You take the car and then you investigate?"<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">A ruling, expected to come on procedural grounds, is due by the end of the Supreme Court's term in June and isn't expected to change law on property forfeiture.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"Unfortunately, the Supreme Court so far has ruled that they're not unconstitutional," said Kary Moss, director of the Michigan American Civil Liberties Union.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Modern civil forfeiture laws originally were passed in the 1970s and 1980s to allow police to seize the means of committing crimes. For instance, if a drug dealer was using a boat to transport drugs, the law enabled officers to confiscate the vessel before the case went to trial.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">But the laws expanded over the years to allow the seizure of property that had only a loose connection to the alleged crime, and police now are taking property for infractions that would not have resulted in forfeitures in the past, including minor drug possession, gambling, drag racing, drunken driving and even loitering near illegal activity.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">While laws governing seizures by federal authorities have been reformed to make it more difficult for them to seize property, state legislatures, including Michigan's, have not followed suit.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">The Wayne County Prosecutor's Office often makes people pay to get their seized property back without filing any charges -- and in some cases citizens such as Sutton must pay even though police and prosecutors admit they can't prove any law was broken. In his case, police raided a dance party they thought was a blind pig and issued tickets to more than 100 people, all of which were later dropped.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Prosecutor Kym Worthy declined comment, but issued a written statement explaining that she wants to get criminals off the street, and that the law allows her office to seize property without filing charges.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Canton's Sgt. Schreiner insisted forfeiture laws should be wielded responsibly.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"There's a right way and a wrong way to do forfeitures," he said. "First of all, you should always file charges; if you don't have a case against someone, you shouldn't seize their property.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"But even when there is a crime, the law should be used as it was intended. If we seize a computer that was used to commit identity fraud, that's a good thing. But if Joe Citizen complains that he was arrested for a small amount of drugs, and we took his refrigerator and silverware, then I think he has a valid complaint."<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Agencies ramp up efforts<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Many of the increases in forfeitures obtained by local police agencies aren't the result of money hunting, officials say, although they also admit their efforts to take property have increased.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">When Romulus saw a 118 percent jump in forfeiture revenues from 2003-07, the increase was not the result of more criminal activity, Chief Michael St. Andre said.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"It's because our forfeiture efforts have ramped up in the past few years," he said.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Revenue was not a primary concern, he said, "but it is nice when we're able to purchase things we need from arrests.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"I don't have to go to the city and ask for things like bulletproof vests or computers."<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">In Trenton, forfeitures hit a high of $874,499 in 2006. Police Chief William Lilienthal said his department joined a federal drug task force in 2005 that focused on assetseizures, which partially accounts for the increase.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Novi saw the biggest revenue increase in forfeiture revenues, going from $12,278 in 2003 to $2.7 million in 2007. But police officials said that spike is largely attributed to a 2005 arrest of a nationwide drug cartel that netted millions of dollars over a three-year period.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Yet adding to the dissent over seizures is that police agencies are able and even required to return the proceeds from forfeitures into more law enforcement activities, which can make a seizure look like a money-grab even if it isn't.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">That's risky business, said Hendrickson, who represents the state's chiefs of police.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"Police departments should never make revenue a prime concern," he said. "That undermines people's confidence in their police officers."<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Under state law, police departments may use the funds raised from most seizures indiscriminately within their own departments, although drug forfeiture money must be put back into fighting drugs.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">But even that rule is being relaxed because of the tough economy. Earlier this year, Romulus police were able to purchase 16 new Dodge Chargers from drug forfeiture funds, which usually isn't allowed.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"They allowed it this year because the economy is so bad, it's an emergency situation," St. Andre said. "We contacted the DEA and asked permission to use that money to purchase vehicles."<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">In Trenton, forfeiture revenues paid for a new firing range.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"Forfeitures are a way to help supplement your budgetary issues," Trenton Chief William Lilienthal said.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"You can't supplant your budget with them, but you can supplement it. If you need something, you can utilize those funds to purchase it."<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">ghunter@detnews.com The Detroit News' Bridget Baulch and Mike Wilkinson contributed.

 

[cosjobs]

That's good advice Christo, but in reality police have a way of 'finding' just cause to search when you tell them 'no'.

Not unless they're really willing to hang something on you. Most are just looking for low hanging fruit. It falls in the "it never hurts to ask" column.

He allowed the officer to search. Why should he expect that having a large amount of cash is enough reason in itself to have it confiscated? I can't find the article now, but around two years ago, the Detroit Free Press had an article that Michigan's police are confiscating money and possessions are a record level. Many of the people having their possessions taken are not being charged or convicted of any crimes and many are finding it difficult to get their possessions back.

here's the FBG thread on the subject. (had to search seizures cuz foos spellt forfeiture wrong) this is the article

Police property seizures ensnare even the innocent<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Money raised by Metro Detroit agencies increases 50% in five years<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">George Hunter and Doug Guthrie / The Detroit News<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Local law enforcement agencies are raising millions of dollars by seizing private property suspected in crimes, but often without charges being filed -- and sometimes even when authorities admit no offense was committed.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">The money raised by confiscating goods in Metro Detroit soared more than 50 percent to at least $20.62 million from 2003 to 2007, according to a Detroit News analysis of records from 58 law enforcement agencies. In some communities, amounts raised went from tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands -- and, in one case, into the millions.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"It's like legalized stealing," said Jacque Sutton, a 21-year-old college student from Mount Clemens whose 1989 Mustang was seized by Detroit police raiding a party. Charges against him and more than 100 others were dropped, but he still paid more than $1,000 to get the car back.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Advertisement<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"According to the law, I did nothing wrong -- but they're allowed to take my property anyway. It doesn't make sense."<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">While courts have maintained the government's right to take property involved in crimes, police seizures -- also known as forfeitures -- are a growing source of friction in Michigan, especially as law enforcement agencies struggle to balance budgets.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"Police departments right now are looking for ways to generate revenue, and forfeiture is a way to offset the costs of doing business," said Sgt. Dave Schreiner, who runs Canton Township's forfeiture unit, which raised $343,699 in 2008. "You'll find that departments are doing more forfeitures than they used to because they've got to -- they're running out of money and they've got to find it somewhere."<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">The increase in property seizures merely is a byproduct of diligent law enforcement, some law enforcement officials say.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"We're trying to fight crime," said Police Chief Mike Pachla of Roseville, where the money raised from forfeitures jumped more than tenfold, from $33,890 to $393,014.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"We would be just as aggressive even if there wasn't any money involved."<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Roseville had among the most dramatic increases over the five-year period examined by The News. But several other agencies also more than doubled their takes, including Novi, Trenton, Farmington Hills, Southfield, the Michigan State Police, Shelby Township, Livonia, Warren and Romulus.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">The increase in money coming in leads to a higher percentage of the police budget being covered by seizures. In Roseville, the share of the police budget raised from forfeitures went from 0.3 percent to 4.2 percent. In Romulus, it jumped from 4.5 percent to 11.2 percent from 2003-2007, the most recent years for which comparable records were available. Some agencies said records weren't available.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Police and prosecutors profit because citizens must either pay to get their confiscated property back or lose their cars, homes and other seized assets to the arresting agencies, which auction them off.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">The increased reliance on seized property to fund police operations amounts to a trade-off for law enforcement. The tough economy may be prompting law enforcement agencies to use an "entrepreneurial spirit," but that makes for bad public relations, said Tom Hendrickson, director of the Michigan Association of Chiefs of Police.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Courts support seizures<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">The friction over seizures is a result of two competing legacies in U.S. law. While the Fourth Amendment, adopted in 1791, protects the right of citizens to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures, the Supreme Court ruled in 1827 that a Spanish-owned ship could be seized after it fired on a U.S. vessel. Whether or not the crew was convicted, the brig was the principal offender, it ruled.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">And 169 years later, the nation's high court reaffirmed the notion when it ruled that a Royal Oak woman couldn't challenge the seizure of the family sedan after her husband was caught having sex with a prostitute inside, even though she didn't know the car was being used for that purpose.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Just last month, the high court heard the case of six people from Chicago who sought prompt hearings on the seizure of their cars and money. When a federal attorney told the court the government needs time to determine who owns a car and to investigate that person's connection to the criminal activity, Justice Sonia Sotomayor said: "I'm sorry. You take the car and then you investigate?"<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">A ruling, expected to come on procedural grounds, is due by the end of the Supreme Court's term in June and isn't expected to change law on property forfeiture.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"Unfortunately, the Supreme Court so far has ruled that they're not unconstitutional," said Kary Moss, director of the Michigan American Civil Liberties Union.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Modern civil forfeiture laws originally were passed in the 1970s and 1980s to allow police to seize the means of committing crimes. For instance, if a drug dealer was using a boat to transport drugs, the law enabled officers to confiscate the vessel before the case went to trial.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">But the laws expanded over the years to allow the seizure of property that had only a loose connection to the alleged crime, and police now are taking property for infractions that would not have resulted in forfeitures in the past, including minor drug possession, gambling, drag racing, drunken driving and even loitering near illegal activity.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">While laws governing seizures by federal authorities have been reformed to make it more difficult for them to seize property, state legislatures, including Michigan's, have not followed suit.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">The Wayne County Prosecutor's Office often makes people pay to get their seized property back without filing any charges -- and in some cases citizens such as Sutton must pay even though police and prosecutors admit they can't prove any law was broken. In his case, police raided a dance party they thought was a blind pig and issued tickets to more than 100 people, all of which were later dropped.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Prosecutor Kym Worthy declined comment, but issued a written statement explaining that she wants to get criminals off the street, and that the law allows her office to seize property without filing charges.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Canton's Sgt. Schreiner insisted forfeiture laws should be wielded responsibly.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"There's a right way and a wrong way to do forfeitures," he said. "First of all, you should always file charges; if you don't have a case against someone, you shouldn't seize their property.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"But even when there is a crime, the law should be used as it was intended. If we seize a computer that was used to commit identity fraud, that's a good thing. But if Joe Citizen complains that he was arrested for a small amount of drugs, and we took his refrigerator and silverware, then I think he has a valid complaint."<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Agencies ramp up efforts<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Many of the increases in forfeitures obtained by local police agencies aren't the result of money hunting, officials say, although they also admit their efforts to take property have increased.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">When Romulus saw a 118 percent jump in forfeiture revenues from 2003-07, the increase was not the result of more criminal activity, Chief Michael St. Andre said.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"It's because our forfeiture efforts have ramped up in the past few years," he said.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Revenue was not a primary concern, he said, "but it is nice when we're able to purchase things we need from arrests.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"I don't have to go to the city and ask for things like bulletproof vests or computers."<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">In Trenton, forfeitures hit a high of $874,499 in 2006. Police Chief William Lilienthal said his department joined a federal drug task force in 2005 that focused on assetseizures, which partially accounts for the increase.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Novi saw the biggest revenue increase in forfeiture revenues, going from $12,278 in 2003 to $2.7 million in 2007. But police officials said that spike is largely attributed to a 2005 arrest of a nationwide drug cartel that netted millions of dollars over a three-year period.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Yet adding to the dissent over seizures is that police agencies are able and even required to return the proceeds from forfeitures into more law enforcement activities, which can make a seizure look like a money-grab even if it isn't.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">That's risky business, said Hendrickson, who represents the state's chiefs of police.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"Police departments should never make revenue a prime concern," he said. "That undermines people's confidence in their police officers."<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Under state law, police departments may use the funds raised from most seizures indiscriminately within their own departments, although drug forfeiture money must be put back into fighting drugs.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">But even that rule is being relaxed because of the tough economy. Earlier this year, Romulus police were able to purchase 16 new Dodge Chargers from drug forfeiture funds, which usually isn't allowed.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"They allowed it this year because the economy is so bad, it's an emergency situation," St. Andre said. "We contacted the DEA and asked permission to use that money to purchase vehicles."<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">In Trenton, forfeiture revenues paid for a new firing range.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"Forfeitures are a way to help supplement your budgetary issues," Trenton Chief William Lilienthal said.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"You can't supplant your budget with them, but you can supplement it. If you need something, you can utilize those funds to purchase it."<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">ghunter@detnews.com The Detroit News' Bridget Baulch and Mike Wilkinson contributed.

try pasting as plain text

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Never volunteer anything to the police.Do you have a large amount of cash? The answer is no.Can I search your car? The answer is no.

I'm not sure I understand this. It doesn't seem like he volunteered the part about the cash, at least the way I read the article. It seems like he was asked directly by the cop.Are you legally allowed to lie to a cop when he asks a question like that? I get that the cop would have had no way of knowing that he was lying. But I've always been taught that the best way to handle a traffic stop is to answer all questions honestly but to never consent to a search, even if you are doing nothing wrong.For instance, in this situation, let's say the guy says "no" when asked if he has a large amount of cash, but then the cop decides that he smells weed in the car and searches it based on what he will say is probably cause. Then he finds the money. Now, the guy has lied about that part...how does that impact him going forward?

Xit might be technically illegal (obstruction) but they would never be able to prove it. the SCT says they can lie to you, so I'd lie to them when asked any question to which there s no answer that would not incriminate me and lean on the right against self incrimination if it was actually charged.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Honest question: so this device can't cause permanent hearing loss?

I am not an expert, but from what I remember- they do not have any long term issues like hearing loss if used properly i.e. the right distance, short bursts and/or level. Above the 140 decibel level you are at risk of hearing damage even in short bursts. The really powerful one shown on Futureweapons tops out at 150. (you can see the green, yellow, red on the volume level). Which is about what a rock concert is.

yea b/c cops never abuse powers and weapons granted to them. I'm sure they would stay within proper safety guidelines when silencing the voices of protesters/crowds .

 

[3C's]

LA police protecting and serving citizens from raw milk distributorshttp://www.naturalnews.com/035895_food_police_raw_milk_confiscation.html

Don't let a recall due to e coli bacteria get in the way of a good story.

 

[SacramentoBob]

That's good advice Christo, but in reality police have a way of 'finding' just cause to search when you tell them 'no'.

Not unless they're really willing to hang something on you. Most are just looking for low hanging fruit. It falls in the "it never hurts to ask" column.

He allowed the officer to search. Why should he expect that having a large amount of cash is enough reason in itself to have it confiscated? I can't find the article now, but around two years ago, the Detroit Free Press had an article that Michigan's police are confiscating money and possessions are a record level. Many of the people having their possessions taken are not being charged or convicted of any crimes and many are finding it difficult to get their possessions back.

here's the FBG thread on the subject. (had to search seizures cuz foos spellt forfeiture wrong) this is the article

Police property seizures ensnare even the innocent<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Money raised by Metro Detroit agencies increases 50% in five years<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">George Hunter and Doug Guthrie / The Detroit News<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Local law enforcement agencies are raising millions of dollars by seizing private property suspected in crimes, but often without charges being filed -- and sometimes even when authorities admit no offense was committed.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">The money raised by confiscating goods in Metro Detroit soared more than 50 percent to at least $20.62 million from 2003 to 2007, according to a Detroit News analysis of records from 58 law enforcement agencies. In some communities, amounts raised went from tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands -- and, in one case, into the millions.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"It's like legalized stealing," said Jacque Sutton, a 21-year-old college student from Mount Clemens whose 1989 Mustang was seized by Detroit police raiding a party. Charges against him and more than 100 others were dropped, but he still paid more than $1,000 to get the car back.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Advertisement<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"According to the law, I did nothing wrong -- but they're allowed to take my property anyway. It doesn't make sense."<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">While courts have maintained the government's right to take property involved in crimes, police seizures -- also known as forfeitures -- are a growing source of friction in Michigan, especially as law enforcement agencies struggle to balance budgets.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"Police departments right now are looking for ways to generate revenue, and forfeiture is a way to offset the costs of doing business," said Sgt. Dave Schreiner, who runs Canton Township's forfeiture unit, which raised $343,699 in 2008. "You'll find that departments are doing more forfeitures than they used to because they've got to -- they're running out of money and they've got to find it somewhere."<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">The increase in property seizures merely is a byproduct of diligent law enforcement, some law enforcement officials say.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"We're trying to fight crime," said Police Chief Mike Pachla of Roseville, where the money raised from forfeitures jumped more than tenfold, from $33,890 to $393,014.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"We would be just as aggressive even if there wasn't any money involved."<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Roseville had among the most dramatic increases over the five-year period examined by The News. But several other agencies also more than doubled their takes, including Novi, Trenton, Farmington Hills, Southfield, the Michigan State Police, Shelby Township, Livonia, Warren and Romulus.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">The increase in money coming in leads to a higher percentage of the police budget being covered by seizures. In Roseville, the share of the police budget raised from forfeitures went from 0.3 percent to 4.2 percent. In Romulus, it jumped from 4.5 percent to 11.2 percent from 2003-2007, the most recent years for which comparable records were available. Some agencies said records weren't available.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Police and prosecutors profit because citizens must either pay to get their confiscated property back or lose their cars, homes and other seized assets to the arresting agencies, which auction them off.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">The increased reliance on seized property to fund police operations amounts to a trade-off for law enforcement. The tough economy may be prompting law enforcement agencies to use an "entrepreneurial spirit," but that makes for bad public relations, said Tom Hendrickson, director of the Michigan Association of Chiefs of Police.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Courts support seizures<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">The friction over seizures is a result of two competing legacies in U.S. law. While the Fourth Amendment, adopted in 1791, protects the right of citizens to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures, the Supreme Court ruled in 1827 that a Spanish-owned ship could be seized after it fired on a U.S. vessel. Whether or not the crew was convicted, the brig was the principal offender, it ruled.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">And 169 years later, the nation's high court reaffirmed the notion when it ruled that a Royal Oak woman couldn't challenge the seizure of the family sedan after her husband was caught having sex with a prostitute inside, even though she didn't know the car was being used for that purpose.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Just last month, the high court heard the case of six people from Chicago who sought prompt hearings on the seizure of their cars and money. When a federal attorney told the court the government needs time to determine who owns a car and to investigate that person's connection to the criminal activity, Justice Sonia Sotomayor said: "I'm sorry. You take the car and then you investigate?"<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">A ruling, expected to come on procedural grounds, is due by the end of the Supreme Court's term in June and isn't expected to change law on property forfeiture.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"Unfortunately, the Supreme Court so far has ruled that they're not unconstitutional," said Kary Moss, director of the Michigan American Civil Liberties Union.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Modern civil forfeiture laws originally were passed in the 1970s and 1980s to allow police to seize the means of committing crimes. For instance, if a drug dealer was using a boat to transport drugs, the law enabled officers to confiscate the vessel before the case went to trial.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">But the laws expanded over the years to allow the seizure of property that had only a loose connection to the alleged crime, and police now are taking property for infractions that would not have resulted in forfeitures in the past, including minor drug possession, gambling, drag racing, drunken driving and even loitering near illegal activity.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">While laws governing seizures by federal authorities have been reformed to make it more difficult for them to seize property, state legislatures, including Michigan's, have not followed suit.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">The Wayne County Prosecutor's Office often makes people pay to get their seized property back without filing any charges -- and in some cases citizens such as Sutton must pay even though police and prosecutors admit they can't prove any law was broken. In his case, police raided a dance party they thought was a blind pig and issued tickets to more than 100 people, all of which were later dropped.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Prosecutor Kym Worthy declined comment, but issued a written statement explaining that she wants to get criminals off the street, and that the law allows her office to seize property without filing charges.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Canton's Sgt. Schreiner insisted forfeiture laws should be wielded responsibly.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"There's a right way and a wrong way to do forfeitures," he said. "First of all, you should always file charges; if you don't have a case against someone, you shouldn't seize their property.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"But even when there is a crime, the law should be used as it was intended. If we seize a computer that was used to commit identity fraud, that's a good thing. But if Joe Citizen complains that he was arrested for a small amount of drugs, and we took his refrigerator and silverware, then I think he has a valid complaint."<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Agencies ramp up efforts<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Many of the increases in forfeitures obtained by local police agencies aren't the result of money hunting, officials say, although they also admit their efforts to take property have increased.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">When Romulus saw a 118 percent jump in forfeiture revenues from 2003-07, the increase was not the result of more criminal activity, Chief Michael St. Andre said.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"It's because our forfeiture efforts have ramped up in the past few years," he said.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Revenue was not a primary concern, he said, "but it is nice when we're able to purchase things we need from arrests.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"I don't have to go to the city and ask for things like bulletproof vests or computers."<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">In Trenton, forfeitures hit a high of $874,499 in 2006. Police Chief William Lilienthal said his department joined a federal drug task force in 2005 that focused on assetseizures, which partially accounts for the increase.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Novi saw the biggest revenue increase in forfeiture revenues, going from $12,278 in 2003 to $2.7 million in 2007. But police officials said that spike is largely attributed to a 2005 arrest of a nationwide drug cartel that netted millions of dollars over a three-year period.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Yet adding to the dissent over seizures is that police agencies are able and even required to return the proceeds from forfeitures into more law enforcement activities, which can make a seizure look like a money-grab even if it isn't.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">That's risky business, said Hendrickson, who represents the state's chiefs of police.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"Police departments should never make revenue a prime concern," he said. "That undermines people's confidence in their police officers."<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Under state law, police departments may use the funds raised from most seizures indiscriminately within their own departments, although drug forfeiture money must be put back into fighting drugs.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">But even that rule is being relaxed because of the tough economy. Earlier this year, Romulus police were able to purchase 16 new Dodge Chargers from drug forfeiture funds, which usually isn't allowed.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"They allowed it this year because the economy is so bad, it's an emergency situation," St. Andre said. "We contacted the DEA and asked permission to use that money to purchase vehicles."<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">In Trenton, forfeiture revenues paid for a new firing range.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"Forfeitures are a way to help supplement your budgetary issues," Trenton Chief William Lilienthal said.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">"You can't supplant your budget with them, but you can supplement it. If you need something, you can utilize those funds to purchase it."<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">ghunter@detnews.com The Detroit News' Bridget Baulch and Mike Wilkinson contributed.

Good god.How is it possible to be THIS bad at the internet?

 

[NCCommish]

Under Asset Forfeiture Law, Wisconsin Cops Confiscate Families' Bail Money

This is straight up legalized theft. What a joke.

This one needs attention. Straight up absurd.

 

[griff321]

You've been hippled

 

[Chaka]

LA police protecting and serving citizens from raw milk distributors

http://www.naturalne...nfiscation.html

Don't let a recall due to e coli bacteria get in the way of a good story.

That recall of Organic Pastures products was pretty suspicious.Three children ended up in the hospital with E. coli but none of the Organic Pastures products tested positive for the strain including the milk they took from the homes where the children got sick.



Depending on the reality behind the recall that recall could support the Police State nature of this thread if resources were used to support a corporate agenda rather than to actually protect the public.

My link

 

[3C's]

LA police protecting and serving citizens from raw milk distributors

http://www.naturalne...nfiscation.html

Don't let a recall due to e coli bacteria get in the way of a good story.

That recall of Organic Pastures products was pretty suspicious.Three children ended up in the hospital with E. coli but none of the Organic Pastures products tested positive for the strain including the milk they took from the homes where the children got sick.



Depending on the reality behind the recall that recall could support the Police State nature of this thread if resources were used to support a corporate agenda rather than to actually protect the public.

My link

"But interviews with the families of the five children infected with the strain between August and October indicated the only common food exposure was to Organic Pastures raw milk"If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

 

[Chaka]

LA police protecting and serving citizens from raw milk distributors

http://www.naturalne...nfiscation.html

Don't let a recall due to e coli bacteria get in the way of a good story.

That recall of Organic Pastures products was pretty suspicious.Three children ended up in the hospital with E. coli but none of the Organic Pastures products tested positive for the strain including the milk they took from the homes where the children got sick.



Depending on the reality behind the recall that recall could support the Police State nature of this thread if resources were used to support a corporate agenda rather than to actually protect the public.

My link

"But interviews with the families of the five children infected with the strain between August and October indicated the only common food exposure was to Organic Pastures raw milk"If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

Yeah but raw milk wasn't quacking.List everything you have eaten for the past two weeks. Now do it for your children.

It is very important to note that none of the raw milk products including those in the homes of the sick children were contaminated. Not sure why that extraordinarily significant fact isn't quacking for you.

 

[Gr00vus]

Some good news on this front:

Federal judge writes injunction against NDAA. She states that the portion of the NDAA allowing the military to indefinitely detain "anyone it accuses of knowingly or unknowingly supporting terrorism ... failed to "pass constitutional muster" because its broad language could be used to quash political dissent." Full text of story below. Here's a link to the full documentation of the ruling (68 pages worth).

Judge Blocks Controversial NDAA

By ADAM KLASFELD Tweet

MANHATTAN (CN) - A federal judge granted a preliminary injunction late Wednesday to block provisions of the 2012 National Defense Authorization Act that would allow the military to indefinitely detain anyone it accuses of knowingly or unknowingly supporting terrorism.

Signed by President Barack Obama on New Year's Eve, the 565-page NDAA contains a short paragraph, in statute 1021, letting the military detain anyone it suspects "substantially supported" al-Qaida, the Taliban or "associated forces." The indefinite detention would supposedly last until "the end of hostilities."

In a 68-page ruling blocking this statute, U.S. District Judge Katherine Forrest agreed that the statute failed to "pass constitutional muster" because its broad language could be used to quash political dissent.

"There is a strong public interest in protecting rights guaranteed by the First Amendment," Forrest wrote. "There is also a strong public interest in ensuring that due process rights guaranteed by the Fifth Amendment are protected by ensuring that ordinary citizens are able to understand the scope of conduct that could subject them to indefinite military detention."

Weeks after Obama signed the law, Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Chris Hedges filed a lawsuit against its so-called "Homeland Battlefield" provisions.

Several prominent activists, scholars and politicians subsequently joined the suit, including Pentagon Papers whistle-blower Daniel Ellsberg; Massachusetts Institute of Technology professor Noam Chomsky; Icelandic parliamentarian Birgitta Jonsdottir; Kai Wargalla, an organizer from Occupy London; and Alexa O'Brien, an organizer for the New York-based activist group U.S. Day of Rage.

They call themselves the Freedom Seven.

In a signing statement, Obama contended that the language in Section 1021 "breaks no new ground" and merely restates the 2001 Authorization to Use Military Force (AUMF).

Government lawyers whistled the same tune to swat away the lawsuit, but they failed to convince the judge that no changes had been made.

"Section 1021 tries to do too much with too little - it lacks the minimal requirements of definition and scienter that could easily have been added, or could be added, to allow it to pass constitutional muster," Forrest wrote.

Scienter refers to a person's knowledge that a law is being violated.

"For the reasons set forth below, this court finds that § 1021 is not merely an 'affirmation' of the AUMF," Forrest wrote. "To so hold would be contrary to basic principles of legislative interpretation that require Congressional enactments to be given independent meaning. To find that § 1021 is merely an 'affirmation' of the AUMF would require this court to find that § 1021 is a mere redundancy - that is, that it has no independent meaning and adds absolutely nothing to the government's enforcement powers."

Brushing aside that argument, Judge Forrest took aim at government arguments that the NDAA did not affect Hedges and his co-plaintiffs personally.

"Here, the uncontradicted testimony at the evidentiary hearing was that the plaintiffs have in fact lost certain First Amendment freedoms as a result of the enactment of § 1021," Forrest wrote.

At a hearing in March, three of the plaintiffs testified that the possibility of government repression under the NDAA made them reconsider how they approached their journalism and activism.

Guardian journalist Naomi Wolf read testimony from Jonsditir, who prepared a statement saying that she would not visit the U.S. for fear of detention.

Forrest alluded to this testimony in her decision.

"Hedges, Wargalla, and Jonsdottir have changed certain associational conduct, and O'Brien and Jonsdittir have avoided certain expressive conduct, because of their concerns about § 1021. Moreover, since plaintiffs continue to have their associational and expressive conduct chilled, there is both actual and continued threatened irreparable harm," she wrote.

"In addition, it is certainly the case that if plaintiffs were detained as a result of their conduct, they could be detained until the cessation of hostilities - i.e., an indeterminate period of time," Forrest continued. "Being subjected to the risk of such detention, particularly in light of the Government's inability to represent that plaintiffs' conduct does not fall with § 1021, must constitute a threat of irreparable harm. The question then is: Is that harm immediate? Since the Government will not say that the conduct does not fall outside of §1021, one cannot predict immediacy one way or the other. The penalty we know would be severe."

The judge added that she did not make the decision lightly.

"This court is acutely aware that preliminarily enjoining an act of Congress must be done with great caution," she wrote. "However, it is the responsibility of our judicial system to protect the public from acts of Congress which infringe upon constitutional rights. As set forth above, this court has found that plaintiffs have shown a likelihood of success on the merits regarding their constitutional claim and it therefore has a responsibility to insure that the public's constitutional rights are protected."

In a phone conference, the plaintiffs' attorneys Bruce Afran and Carl Mayer hailed what they called a "complete victory." "America is more free today than it was yesterday due to the courageous and righteous and very sound ruling by Judge Forrest," Mayer said. "I think this is a hugely significant development... I think it's also a testament to the courage of the plaintiffs here."

One of those plaintiffs, O'Brien, was also jubilant in a separate interview.

"I am extremely happy right now, and what I'm most happy about it is that this ruling has given me trust," O'Brien said, "Trust is the foundation of just and stable governments, and this ruling gives me hope that we can restore trust in the foundations of government."

While the U.S. Attorney's office declined comment on the ruling, Mayer urged the Obama administration to "drop it," and forego an appeal.

"They have to come to terms with the fact that it's wholly unconstitutional," Mayer said.

The House voted Friday to reject an amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) which would have prevented the government from holding terrorism suspects captured in the U.S. in indefinite military detention. An amendment by Reps. Adam Smith (D) and Justin Amash ® failed 182-231, while a separate amendment confirming that U.S. citizens had habeas corpus rights passed 243-173.

“It’s a shame that the House of Representatives has turned its back on our nation’s security and the rule of law,” Human Rights First’s Raha Wala said in a statement. “Last year, Americans of all political persuasions were dismayed when politicians approved indefinite detention that could extend here in the United States. Today, the House missed opportunity to change course and realign counterterrorism policy with American values.”

A federal judge had blocked portions of the NDAA, saying the law’s language was “sufficiently vague that no ordinary citizen can reliably define” the conduct that allows the government to hold a person indefinitely.

So where does this leave things? What's the relationship between the judge's ruling and these amendments not passing/passing?

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Under Asset Forfeiture Law, Wisconsin Cops Confiscate Families' Bail Money

This is straight up legalized theft. What a joke.

This one needs attention. Straight up absurd.

Just this one?

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

What's a "large" amount of cash?

Anything more than $78.

Maybe at homelessguys.com.

It is too late for most of us to live off the grid. So no need to carry to cash.

 

[ren hoek]

LA police protecting and serving citizens from raw milk distributorshttp://www.naturalnews.com/035895_food_police_raw_milk_confiscation.html

Don't let a recall due to e coli bacteria get in the way of a good story.

Even in the event that they were distributing infected milk, which they weren't, I'd still think raiding their farm is wrong. I'd rather those issues be settled through the court system than thugs invading someone's property with machineguns.

 

[NCCommish]

Interesting study on exonerations and why some people end up in jail:

We also discuss a larger set: at least 1,170

convicted defendants who were cleared since 1995 in 13 “group exonerations,” that occurred

after it was discovered that police officers had deliberately framed dozens or hundreds of

innocent defendants, mostly for drug and gun crimes.3

U of M law

 

[ren hoek]

Stay classy, NYPD (nsfw language?)

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/05/21/nypd-officer-to-suspect-my-****-will-go-in-your-mouth/

 

[azgroover]

Here's something new they're doing in Scottsdale AZ. In the name of protecting us from ourselves of course.

Scottsdale Mayor Jim Lane criticizes loaned Glendale police tower

Structure gives officers view of downtown

May. 22, 2012 12:20 PM

The Republic | azcentral.com

The Scottsdale Police Department's recent use of a skywatch tower for crowd surveillance in the downtown entertainment district has been criticized by Mayor Jim Lane, who said it looked "outrageous."

The department borrowed the mobile tower from the Glendale Police Department and used it from about 5 p.m. to 2 a.m. on the weekends of April 28-29 and May 5-6, Officer David Pubins said.

The tower was located on Saddlebag Trail near Indian Plaza, close to El Hefe Super Macho Taqueria, #####cat Lounge and Axis/Radius.

The tower gave officers a view of the crowd from about 25 feet above ground, Pubins said. The department borrowed the tower at no cost.

"At this point there are no plans to purchase one similar, nor is there a budget for it right now," he said. "However, we are always open to public-safety tools that may be a benefit to the citizens and our department, so we tried it out to see how it would work in the downtown area during a busy time."

Officers who used the platform "felt that they had a very good vantage point of what was going on along with providing a better presence by being visible to many more people at any given time," Pubins said.

"We did not specifically track whether or not the use of the platform translated into any physical arrests," he said.

At a recent mayoral-candidates forum, Lane said the Police Department borrowed the tower against his wishes. He said he is not an advocate of the department using the device and that he didn't like seeing it in the area.

"You're talking about a tower ... that looks very much like a prison-yard tower," he said. "You've got a tower in the air that's got lights and cameras on it, and there's somebody standing (at) the base guarding it. It's an image I don't think necessarily fits in Scottsdale."

Glendale police Sgt. Brent Coombs said his department uses the skywatch during special events that attract large crowds, such as Arizona Cardinals games and other events at the University of Phoenix Stadium and Jobing.com Arena.

"This elevated platform with its surveillance/camera equipment capability allows our agency to look from a distance at large areas in detection of criminal activity, identification of traffic-pattern related problems, location of lost persons, intelligence gathering on crowd gatherings for redeployment of police and EMS (emergency medical services) assets."

The entertainment district includes a high concentration of bars and attracts thousands of patrons every weekend.

Bill Crawford, president of the Association to Preserve Downtown Scottsdale's Quality of Life, said the skywatch tower was "warranted completely" and that Lane is trivializing the threat of criminal activity in the district.

Lane is up for re-election as mayor and Crawford is running for a seat on the City Council.

"It's dangerous down there, there's gangs, there's armed gangs and there's going to be more," Crawford said. "Anything the police department can do to mitigate that is a great thing."

At this point, the department has no intention of borrowing the tower again, Pubins said.

 

[Clinton]

Baltimore Leaders Increase Security At Inner Harbor

BALTIMORE (WJZ) — The rash of fights, stabbings and the beating of a tourist in downtown Baltimore is raising concerns and city leaders are taking action.

Mike Hellgren takes a closer look at the security enhancements.

Even the rain couldn’t keep throngs of tourists away from the Inner Harbor. But a string of violence downtown, including a beating caught on tape, groups of fighting teenagers and several stabbings during the St. Patrick’s Day weekend, have police beefing up their presence, including 50 more officers on the streets, new school police patrols to control youth causing problems and better camera technology including clearer, high-definition lenses in the network of 100 cameras with their eyes downtown.

“I wouldn’t sit here and try to get everybody alarmed. All those issues were managed appropriately by the central district and responding officers. They’re going to continue to be managed,” said Anthony Guglielmi, Baltimore City Police spokesperson.

For the first time, the camera network at Harborplace and also at Galleryplace will be linked into the police system.

FULL ARTICLE

 

[SacramentoBob]

Stay classy, NYPD (nsfw language?)http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/05/21/nypd-officer-to-suspect-my-****-will-go-in-your-mouth/

No problem with anything he did there.

 

[bueno]

Jesus man. Just move into a compound in Wyoming with a weapons stockade already.

Or Idaho. OR Washington. Wait - that's where I live with my weapons stockade!

 

[ren hoek]

Something right up your alley

Thanks. r/Bad_Cop_No_Donut is pretty good too.

 

[Slapdash]

Here's something new they're doing in Scottsdale AZ. In the name of protecting us from ourselves of course.

Scottsdale Mayor Jim Lane criticizes loaned Glendale police tower

Structure gives officers view of downtown

May. 22, 2012 12:20 PM

The Republic | azcentral.com

The Scottsdale Police Department's recent use of a skywatch tower for crowd surveillance in the downtown entertainment district has been criticized by Mayor Jim Lane, who said it looked "outrageous."

The department borrowed the mobile tower from the Glendale Police Department and used it from about 5 p.m. to 2 a.m. on the weekends of April 28-29 and May 5-6, Officer David Pubins said.

The tower was located on Saddlebag Trail near Indian Plaza, close to El Hefe Super Macho Taqueria, #####cat Lounge and Axis/Radius.

The tower gave officers a view of the crowd from about 25 feet above ground, Pubins said. The department borrowed the tower at no cost.

"At this point there are no plans to purchase one similar, nor is there a budget for it right now," he said. "However, we are always open to public-safety tools that may be a benefit to the citizens and our department, so we tried it out to see how it would work in the downtown area during a busy time."

Officers who used the platform "felt that they had a very good vantage point of what was going on along with providing a better presence by being visible to many more people at any given time," Pubins said.

"We did not specifically track whether or not the use of the platform translated into any physical arrests," he said.

At a recent mayoral-candidates forum, Lane said the Police Department borrowed the tower against his wishes. He said he is not an advocate of the department using the device and that he didn't like seeing it in the area.

"You're talking about a tower ... that looks very much like a prison-yard tower," he said. "You've got a tower in the air that's got lights and cameras on it, and there's somebody standing (at) the base guarding it. It's an image I don't think necessarily fits in Scottsdale."

Glendale police Sgt. Brent Coombs said his department uses the skywatch during special events that attract large crowds, such as Arizona Cardinals games and other events at the University of Phoenix Stadium and Jobing.com Arena.

"This elevated platform with its surveillance/camera equipment capability allows our agency to look from a distance at large areas in detection of criminal activity, identification of traffic-pattern related problems, location of lost persons, intelligence gathering on crowd gatherings for redeployment of police and EMS (emergency medical services) assets."

The entertainment district includes a high concentration of bars and attracts thousands of patrons every weekend.

Bill Crawford, president of the Association to Preserve Downtown Scottsdale's Quality of Life, said the skywatch tower was "warranted completely" and that Lane is trivializing the threat of criminal activity in the district.

Lane is up for re-election as mayor and Crawford is running for a seat on the City Council.

"It's dangerous down there, there's gangs, there's armed gangs and there's going to be more," Crawford said. "Anything the police department can do to mitigate that is a great thing."

At this point, the department has no intention of borrowing the tower again, Pubins said.

These ####### things are always present at any outdoor event and most weekends where I live,