Porcupine Tree &/or Ozric Tentacles (1 Viewer)

[Bob Magaw]

just discovered these bands...

ozric tentacles seems like a psychedelic jam band, porcupine tree almost like a dream theatre-esque (another band i need to check out) collection of virtuoso musicians playing a hybrid, fusion of prog-rock-heavy metal that isn't exactly either...

the PT DVD looks cool, if anybody has seen it & has feedback...

 

[jafo]

Been a big fan of Porcupine Tree for awhile now. Some really great songs on Lightbulb Sun.

'Hatesong' is a great.

 

[malice]

Was a big fan of Porcupine Tree's In Absentia, Deadwing didn't appeal to me much on first listen, then I gave Fear of a Black Planet a try and consider it one of my faves from 2007...so I'm going back to Deadwing.

Fear of a Black Planet is one of those discs you can just pop in and listen to straight through. I would also recommend dredg's El Cielo if you're looking for more of the same.

 

[dickey moe]

In Absentia is one of my favorite albums of the early 2000s -- great songs throughout the album. I haven't dug their latest releases as much -- the songs are a little boring.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Ozric used to be one of my favorites, they have a ton of material. my favorite disc by them

 

[glvsav37]

just discovered these bands...porcupine tree almost like a dream theatre-esque (another band i need to check out)

Life-long DT fan and while I dig PT, they are not DT. Not bosting DT, but their styles are very different. DT's songs are often very long and all over the place musically. They are heavy keyboards and drums. Def check them out, but I wouldn't expect PT. You really need to be in the mood to listen to DT and b/c of that, they turn most people off.

 

[Fiddles]

i had some older porcupine tree about 10 years ago and it was just ok

i recently tried them again and am really into blank planet and in absentia

those are the only 2 ive heard of their recent stuff

love the riffage on anasthetize

 

[Bob Magaw]

thanx for the suggestions... think i'm going to try stars die for an early PT compilation...

absentia, deadwing & blank planet sound interesting...

i'll report back what i think...

 

[Ghost Rider]

Porcupine Tree is my 2nd favorite band of all-time, which is saying something since I listen to a ton of music. And I am a big fan of their entire discography, not just the newer stuff.

Favorite albums in order (note: I consider all of them at least 4 stars or higher on a 5-point scale)

Lightbulb Sun (this is a top 5 album of all-time for me)

Signify

In Absentia

Stupid Dream

The Sky Moves Sideways

Deadwing

Fear of a Blank Planet

Up the Downstair

Favorite songs

Dark Matter

Anesthetize

Lazarus

Feel So Low

Collapse the Light into Earth

Drown With Me

Trains (this song is guaranteed to convert almost anyone)

Shesmovedon

Lightbulb Sun

Moonloop

Waiting (Phase I and II)

A Smart Kid

Way Out of Here

Hatesong

Arriving Somewhere But Not Here

Heartattack in a Layby

The Start of Something Beautiful

Fadeaway

Russia On Ice

Piano Lessons

The Sky Moves Sideways (both phases)

Also, Porcupine Tree really isn't like Dream Theater at all. DT is more about playing technical stuff and being flashy, while PT is more of a mood band. PT just oozes emotion, while DT often times has a hard time finding any.

Lastly, the PT DVD is good. I like it, but I am not overly crazy about it, which surprised me, given how much I love the band.

 

[Smizzy]

Ozric used to be one of my favorites, they have a ton of material. my favorite disc by them

Agreed!!! Jurassic Shift is my favortie album from OT.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Obviously from my name I love Dream Theater - Scenes From a Memory is one of my favorite all time albums...If you can get your hands on Live at Budokan DVD everyone who has watched it has been BLOWN away at their musicianship.

In Absentia is the best Porcupine Tree album IMO.

Swirling Termination is my favorite Ozric disc.

 

[Liquid Tension]

just discovered these bands...porcupine tree almost like a dream theatre-esque (another band i need to check out)

Life-long DT fan and while I dig PT, they are not DT. Not bosting DT, but their styles are very different. DT's songs are often very long and all over the place musically. They are heavy keyboards and drums. Def check them out, but I wouldn't expect PT. You really need to be in the mood to listen to DT and b/c of that, they turn most people off.

Same can be said for Liquid Tension. People who are not that into music, will not like bands like DT or Liquid Tension. It is not really background music. Great driving music or work out music or seriously listening music. But, nothing gives me more goosebumps. I like Petrucci's solo album as well. When I work I like a lot of fusion music (no singing), but even Liquid Tension or dream theater can be much at my desk. If people are interested in some solid fusion (more punch than the traditional Spyro Gyra/yellowjackets), I could list a ton of groups.Just off the top of my head the first 10 that come to mind so not inclusive - good fusion bands and not in any orderCosmosquad - Everyone has liked these guys when given to themFroPanzerballetSteve Morse solo discs (best with Dave Larue)Karcias7 for 4Shane Theriot - Grease FactorAl DiMeola - Favorite is Land of the Midnight SunBela Fleck and the Flecktones - Ufo Tofu The Magic ElfBTW, Spocks Beard is a group that many people like and Transatlantic has the drummer from Dream Theater (Portnoy is fantastic) on it as well.Oh and Lightbulb Sun is my other favorite PT albumI have to run, but I will check back

 

[Ghost Rider]

Obviously from my name I love Dream Theater - Scenes From a Memory is one of my favorite all time albums...If you can get your hands on Live at Budokan DVD everyone who has watched it has been BLOWN away at their musicianship.

The musicianship is incredible, yes, but the set list is less than stellar on that DVD, but then again, Train of Thought is easily their worst record to date, IMO, and that DVD is loaded with songs from it, so there is that, for one. For two, I am one of those old school DT fans who feels that they were much better when Kevin Moore was in the band. He brought a sense of melody and emotion that hasn't been there since his departure, though Sherinian was a great player, too.

That is not to say that they haven't done some great stuff with Rudess; they have. Scenes from a Memory is great, Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is really good, too, and the LTE albums rock, but they have really gone downhill over the last three albums. Their focus seems too much nowadays on showing off their musicianship, while back in the day, they wrote great songs, and the musicianship was like the icing on the cake.

BTW, Spocks Beard is a group that many people like and Transatlantic has the drummer from Dream Theater (Portnoy is fantastic) on it as well.

Both Transatlantic cds are nothing short of awesome, and Spock's Beard did some good stuff, too. In the same vein, The Flower Kings, despite having the worst band name ever, are incredible; progressive rock at its finest, IMO.

 

[WampusCat43]

Just saw PT in concert last October. Not much stage presence, but still an awesome show. Sounded so much like the albums it's almost suspicious.

In Absentia definitely my favorite, then Signify, Fear, Stars Die (which is a compilation). Deadwing is meh.

Try Riverside for something similar. Liquid Tension doesn't do much for me.

Give VAST a try too. You can download all their music online (although I see their site is down right now.)

 

[Liquid Tension]

Obviously from my name I love Dream Theater - Scenes From a Memory is one of my favorite all time albums...If you can get your hands on Live at Budokan DVD everyone who has watched it has been BLOWN away at their musicianship.

The musicianship is incredible, yes, but the set list is less than stellar on that DVD, but then again, Train of Thought is easily their worst record to date, IMO, and that DVD is loaded with songs from it, so there is that, for one. For two, I am one of those old school DT fans who feels that they were much better when Kevin Moore was in the band. He brought a sense of melody and emotion that hasn't been there since his departure, though Sherinian was a great player, too.

That is not to say that they haven't done some great stuff with Rudess; they have. Scenes from a Memory is great, Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is really good, too, and the LTE albums rock, but they have really gone downhill over the last three albums. Their focus seems too much nowadays on showing off their musicianship, while back in the day, they wrote great songs, and the musicianship was like the icing on the cake.

BTW, Spocks Beard is a group that many people like and Transatlantic has the drummer from Dream Theater (Portnoy is fantastic) on it as well.

Both Transatlantic cds are nothing short of awesome, and Spock's Beard did some good stuff, too. In the same vein, The Flower Kings, despite having the worst band name ever, are incredible; progressive rock at its finest, IMO.

Yeah, I like Transatlantic a lot. I think the newest Dream Theater (Systematic Chaos) is the best since Scenes From a Memory. At first I wasn't sure I liked it that much but I think they did a great job. As for the DVD, just the medley is worth the price of admission, but what I really like is that they let you see the guys playing. I also like when Labrie leaves the stage I didn't like the production on Scenes from New York because it was like an MTV video and you can't watch the guys play.

I still think that if anyone likes a lot of notes and likes to rock that Liquid Tension I and II can't be missed.

The Flower Kings are a must have in the collection but they fall down my list as some of their stuff I am not that fond of (although when I say that I am not saying it is like Michael Bolton)

 

[Liquid Tension]

Just saw PT in concert last October. Not much stage presence, but still an awesome show. Sounded so much like the albums it's almost suspicious.

In Absentia definitely my favorite, then Signify, Fear, Stars Die (which is a compilation). Deadwing is meh.

Try Riverside for something similar. Liquid Tension doesn't do much for me.

Give VAST a try too. You can download all their music online (although I see their site is down right now.)

Riverside is pretty good. I also have one Vast disc (not sure how many are out there?)As for Liquid Tension i would recommend giving it a lot of listens. At first it is just a lot of notes (in some ways like heavy jazz), but once you know when the music changes etc... it is a whole new way of listening to them. As much as I love Liquid Tension, I still put Scenes From a Memory ahead of both of those albums. There are less times when listening to Liquid Tension are available for me, but I love Tony Levin playing with Portnoy and Petrucci.

I gave my buddy Scenes and he has a 5 disc changer in his car and 2 years later it was the only disc he never changed out (the others were changed out dozens of times...) Others have had similar stories. i will say that I am not a fan of Labrie though, which is probably why I love Liquid Tension so much as it is the band without the singing.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Yeah, I like Transatlantic a lot. I think the newest Dream Theater (Systematic Chaos) is the best since Scenes From a Memory. At first I wasn't sure I liked it that much but I think they did a great job.

I do not find much of it memorable at all. The single, Constant Motion, is atrocious, and the epic, In the Presence of Enemies, is really hurt by the awful lyrics. Singing about a dark master? That is too awful for me to get past when listening to part II. The Ministry of Lost Souls is probably the best song on it, but even that is hurt by the completely out of place instrumental section in the middle.

As for the DVD, just the medley is worth the price of admission, but what I really like is that they let you see the guys playing. I also like when Labrie leaves the stage I didn't like the production on Scenes from New York because it was like an MTV video and you can't watch the guys play.

Oddly, I cannot stand the Instrumedley. It is basically them stitching instrumental parts from different songs together in no discernible order. I would have preferred to have them played one or two of their instrumentals as stand-alone tracks.

I still think that if anyone likes a lot of notes and likes to rock that Liquid Tension I and II can't be missed.

Very true. Plus, Tony Levin is a much more creative and groovy bass player than Myung, so he adds a whole other element to their sound. Plus, Rudess is far more creative and interesting with his playing, as opposed to his work with Dream Theater, where most of the time, he just plays whatever Portnoy or Petrucci tell him to.

The Flower Kings are a must have in the collection but they fall down my list as some of their stuff I am not that fond of (although when I say that I am not saying it is like Michael Bolton)

In all fairness, they do have TONS of music. They have ten studio albums, four of which are double albums, so that is basically 14 full albums worth of material. Even if you dislike half of it, that is still over seven hours worth of great music.

I gave my buddy Scenes and he has a 5 disc changer in his car and 2 years later it was the only disc he never changed out (the others were changed out dozens of times...) Others have had similar stories. i will say that I am not a fan of Labrie though, which is probably why I love Liquid Tension so much as it is the band without the singing.

See, I am weird in that LaBrie's voice was what initially attracted me to the band back in '93. But I am aware that many do not like the band because of his voice. Different strokes, I guess.

 

[WampusCat43]

Just saw PT in concert last October. Not much stage presence, but still an awesome show. Sounded so much like the albums it's almost suspicious.

In Absentia definitely my favorite, then Signify, Fear, Stars Die (which is a compilation). Deadwing is meh.

Try Riverside for something similar. Liquid Tension doesn't do much for me.

Give VAST a try too. You can download all their music online (although I see their site is down right now.)

Riverside is pretty good. I also have one Vast disc (not sure how many are out there?)As for Liquid Tension i would recommend giving it a lot of listens. At first it is just a lot of notes (in some ways like heavy jazz), but once you know when the music changes etc... it is a whole new way of listening to them. As much as I love Liquid Tension, I still put Scenes From a Memory ahead of both of those albums. There are less times when listening to Liquid Tension are available for me, but I love Tony Levin playing with Portnoy and Petrucci.

I gave my buddy Scenes and he has a 5 disc changer in his car and 2 years later it was the only disc he never changed out (the others were changed out dozens of times...) Others have had similar stories. i will say that I am not a fan of Labrie though, which is probably why I love Liquid Tension so much as it is the band without the singing.

VAST has several 'groupings' of their songs, which overlap (aggravatingly). One word of warning - the latest 'release' - I think it's called April - is slit-your-wrists depressing.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Yeah, I like Transatlantic a lot. I think the newest Dream Theater (Systematic Chaos) is the best since Scenes From a Memory. At first I wasn't sure I liked it that much but I think they did a great job.

I do not find much of it memorable at all. The single, Constant Motion, is atrocious, and the epic, In the Presence of Enemies, is really hurt by the awful lyrics. Singing about a dark master? That is too awful for me to get past when listening to part II. The Ministry of Lost Souls is probably the best song on it, but even that is hurt by the completely out of place instrumental section in the middle.

As for the DVD, just the medley is worth the price of admission, but what I really like is that they let you see the guys playing. I also like when Labrie leaves the stage I didn't like the production on Scenes from New York because it was like an MTV video and you can't watch the guys play.

Oddly, I cannot stand the Instrumedley. It is basically them stitching instrumental parts from different songs together in no discernible order. I would have preferred to have them played one or two of their instrumentals as stand-alone tracks.

I still think that if anyone likes a lot of notes and likes to rock that Liquid Tension I and II can't be missed.

Very true. Plus, Tony Levin is a much more creative and groovy bass player than Myung, so he adds a whole other element to their sound. Plus, Rudess is far more creative and interesting with his playing, as opposed to his work with Dream Theater, where most of the time, he just plays whatever Portnoy or Petrucci tell him to.

The Flower Kings are a must have in the collection but they fall down my list as some of their stuff I am not that fond of (although when I say that I am not saying it is like Michael Bolton)

In all fairness, they do have TONS of music. They have ten studio albums, four of which are double albums, so that is basically 14 full albums worth of material. Even if you dislike half of it, that is still over seven hours worth of great music.

I gave my buddy Scenes and he has a 5 disc changer in his car and 2 years later it was the only disc he never changed out (the others were changed out dozens of times...) Others have had similar stories. i will say that I am not a fan of Labrie though, which is probably why I love Liquid Tension so much as it is the band without the singing.

See, I am weird in that LaBrie's voice was what initially attracted me to the band back in '93. But I am aware that many do not like the band because of his voice. Different strokes, I guess.

You and I have a different things that attract us to music, but with some similarities mixed in. You like lyrics way more than I do, I like the music a lot more. in fact, I don;t really care about lyrics, I would rather the voice me viewed as an instrument because great ;lyrics don;t add much at all to me and weak lyrics don;t hurt to me either. I think Labrie is a cheesy singer with no substance. Now as for Tony Levin and Myung, you are spot on. The new album actually uses him a little, but he isn't nearly as tasty as Levin who is great.At the end of the day I absolutely think portnoy is a God of a drummer and is just amazing to me and Petrucci is right with him and this is why I love their stuff. petrucci's guitar sounds fantastic to me.Do you know the way Bill Bruford has that great percussive way about him, well I think Portnoy has that along with the great power drum aspects...As for the Flower Kings you are correct that if you take their greatest stuff you can fill 4 hours of music (I like some less than you) so they are most worthy, but I just don't get as much goose bump material, but like it. I kind of feel like they are Marillion. Misplaced Childhood is a great album and I think better than anything from the Flower Kings.You not liking the instrumedley is a different in likes as I love it. Nothing wrong with differences as a lot can give people goose bumps and that is what makes music great. At least we are in the same area from music and we are not arguing over why Michael Bolton is a God

 

[Liquid Tension]

QUOTE(Liquid Tension @ Jan 15 2008, 01:39 PM) Yeah, I like Transatlantic a lot. I think the newest Dream Theater (Systematic Chaos) is the best since Scenes From a Memory. At first I wasn't sure I liked it that much but I think they did a great job.

I do not find much of it memorable at all. The single, Constant Motion, is atrocious, and the epic, In the Presence of Enemies, is really hurt by the awful lyrics. Singing about a dark master? That is too awful for me to get past when listening to part II. The Ministry of Lost Souls is probably the best song on it, but even that is hurt by the completely out of place instrumental section in the middle.

I didn't address the above.I really like The Ministry as well, but I also like the power in the Dark Eternal Light. As for the "single" I like the song after listening to it more. You mention "out of place", but I like songs that changeup, but there do require a lot of listens in...I wouldn't be able to tell you what the single is on any disc as I don't listen to the radio anymore. With about 20,000 songs I have enough to listen to

 

[Liquid Tension]

Just saw PT in concert last October. Not much stage presence, but still an awesome show. Sounded so much like the albums it's almost suspicious.

In Absentia definitely my favorite, then Signify, Fear, Stars Die (which is a compilation). Deadwing is meh.

Try Riverside for something similar. Liquid Tension doesn't do much for me.

Give VAST a try too. You can download all their music online (although I see their site is down right now.)

Riverside is pretty good. I also have one Vast disc (not sure how many are out there?)As for Liquid Tension i would recommend giving it a lot of listens. At first it is just a lot of notes (in some ways like heavy jazz), but once you know when the music changes etc... it is a whole new way of listening to them. As much as I love Liquid Tension, I still put Scenes From a Memory ahead of both of those albums. There are less times when listening to Liquid Tension are available for me, but I love Tony Levin playing with Portnoy and Petrucci.

I gave my buddy Scenes and he has a 5 disc changer in his car and 2 years later it was the only disc he never changed out (the others were changed out dozens of times...) Others have had similar stories. i will say that I am not a fan of Labrie though, which is probably why I love Liquid Tension so much as it is the band without the singing.

VAST has several 'groupings' of their songs, which overlap (aggravatingly). One word of warning - the latest 'release' - I think it's called April - is slit-your-wrists depressing.

LOL. Actually, I was just saying to Ghost rider that lyrics don't mena much to me, but I have to admit that Alice in Chains drops down some for me because of tehir negativity

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

ozric didnt do much for me, I only gave one album a serious listen.

I need to check out porcupine tree though

 

[Liquid Tension]

ozric didnt do much for me, I only gave one album a serious listen.I need to check out porcupine tree though

Which album as some Ozric is boring

 

[pecorino]

big ozric tentacles fan. i like all of their albums but Jurrasic Shift definitely came to mind when thinking about their potential best. many of their songs sound the same--pick up almost anything. they are very consistent imo.

 

[suchislife]

Been a big fan of Porcupine Tree since '99 (heard their NEARFest set on the web). Got hooked on their early stuff and had some reservations about them when they went to the 'harder' stuff, but I love every thing they've ever done. Favorite songs include:

Radioactive Toy

Even Less

Russia on Ice

Slave Called Shiver

Hatesong

Sound of Muzak <---love the message

Start of Something Beautiful

Lazarus

Voyage 34 (The Complete Trip)

Normal (from Nil Recurring EP)

PT's is the best band currently making music, imo. Seen them live 3 times, each time by myself. Can't seem to get anyone to go but I won't miss them!

Also like Dream Theater, but they don't come close to PT for me.

Liquid Tension - I always wondered about your name

 

[Liquid Tension]

Been a big fan of Porcupine Tree since '99 (heard their NEARFest set on the web). Got hooked on their early stuff and had some reservations about them when they went to the 'harder' stuff, but I love every thing they've ever done. Favorite songs include:Radioactive ToyEven LessRussia on IceSlave Called ShiverHatesongSound of Muzak <---love the messageStart of Something BeautifulLazarusVoyage 34 (The Complete Trip)Normal (from Nil Recurring EP)PT's is the best band currently making music, imo. Seen them live 3 times, each time by myself. Can't seem to get anyone to go but I won't miss them!Also like Dream Theater, but they don't come close to PT for me.Liquid Tension - I always wondered about your name

Thanks. I have to go through my collection and find some other bands that you guys will like (Porcupine Tree'ish). I do think that Transatlantic is something you would like.If you like music without singing a band that never gets a bad review (and I mean out of 100 people not one person said they didn't like it - even if some said it was just OK) is Cosmosquad. Any of their 3 albums is solid and a very good addition to a collection. Again no singing, but the music is non offensive and can be background music or listening. the first (just Cosmosquad) and Squadrophenia are a little different than the last one (Acid Test), but they are all solid non offensive fusion with some tasteSpock's Beard is a band that a lot of PT fans like around me as well. Some think "Snow" is the modern day Tommy. it is about an Albino kid. I think it is solid music and there are some very good parts, but I don't go crazy for it. Neil Morse is the singer.

 

[Fiddles]

If you are looking for recommendations for heavy progish stuff try some Voivod

<--

 

[Ghost Rider]

You and I have a different things that attract us to music, but with some similarities mixed in. You like lyrics way more than I do, I like the music a lot more. in fact, I don;t really care about lyrics, I would rather the voice me viewed as an instrument because great ;lyrics don;t add much at all to me and weak lyrics don;t hurt to me either. I think Labrie is a cheesy singer with no substance. Now as for Tony Levin and Myung, you are spot on. The new album actually uses him a little, but he isn't nearly as tasty as Levin who is great.

At the end of the day I absolutely think portnoy is a God of a drummer and is just amazing to me and Petrucci is right with him and this is why I love their stuff. petrucci's guitar sounds fantastic to me.

Do you know the way Bill Bruford has that great percussive way about him, well I think Portnoy has that along with the great power drum aspects...

As for the Flower Kings you are correct that if you take their greatest stuff you can fill 4 hours of music (I like some less than you) so they are most worthy, but I just don't get as much goose bump material, but like it. I kind of feel like they are Marillion. Misplaced Childhood is a great album and I think better than anything from the Flower Kings.

You not liking the instrumedley is a different in likes as I love it. Nothing wrong with differences as a lot can give people goose bumps and that is what makes music great. At least we are in the same area from music and we are not arguing over why Michael Bolton is a God

Yes, I like lyrics, but I do not always have to have good lyrics to enjoy music. Great lyrics can enhance the music (think of Rush or Floyd), but bad lyrics can be a detriment, and that is what happens when I listen to Systematic Chaos. I think Portnoy is a really good drummer, but not great; I could probably name at least 15 rock drummers I like better. The problem with Portnoy is that his style is exactly what it was 15 years ago. He is still playing all of the same fills, beats, etc. He has even said he doesn't have time to practice anymore, so when it comes time to record stuff, he just reaches into his usual bag of tricks. In other words, his playing has become stagnant and predictable. Several songs on the new album, I could practically air drum to them on the first listen because I knew what was coming (although I didn't literally air drum ).

I am not a Marillion fan...AT ALL.

But you are right: we do seem to come from the same head space as far as music goes, even if we disagree on a few things.

I didn't address the above.

I really like The Ministry as well, but I also like the power in the Dark Eternal Light. As for the "single" I like the song after listening to it more. You mention "out of place", but I like songs that changeup, but there do require a lot of listens in...

I wouldn't be able to tell you what the single is on any disc as I don't listen to the radio anymore. With about 20,000 songs I have enough to listen to

Constant Motion, the single, and Forsaken, the next single here pretty soon, both sound like conscious efforts to be mainstream (just like I Walk Beside You was), and Dream Theater doesn't do mainstream stuff well. The only mainstream song they ever had (Pull Me Under) was a total accident. In other words, I doubt they were trying to write a song that the masses would like. Forsaken isn't really bad; it just boring. And between them writing verses where LaBrie sounds like a James Hetfield wannabe and the worst keyboard solo ever, Constant Motion is just a bad song, IMO.

Been a big fan of Porcupine Tree since '99 (heard their NEARFest set on the web). Got hooked on their early stuff and had some reservations about them when they went to the 'harder' stuff, but I love every thing they've ever done. Favorite songs include:

Radioactive Toy

Even Less

Russia on Ice

Slave Called Shiver

Hatesong

Sound of Muzak <---love the message

Start of Something Beautiful

Lazarus

Voyage 34 (The Complete Trip)

Normal (from Nil Recurring EP)

PT's is the best band currently making music, imo. Seen them live 3 times, each time by myself. Can't seem to get anyone to go but I won't miss them!

Good to see you have a song from the new EP on there. Personally, I like What Happens Now" the best from it, but Normal is great, too.

 

[suchislife]

First to address one of Bob's original questions...I was excited PT was putting out a DVD ("Arriving Somewhere..."). Musically I love it and feel its a great representation of the 'Deadwing' tour. However I really don't like the way it was shot. Great addition for any prog metal fan (PT prog metal?? Yeah I guess now they are).

Liquid Tension, Ghost Rider - It seems our music collections are quite similar in terms of prog. Spock's Beard is another band I found from the '99 NEARFest lineup. When Neal Morse was mentioned as the singer on 'Snow' my first thought was that he wasn't on that CD. When I checked, it was in fact his last appearance with the band. Shows you how much I listen to them. They're OK, but I don't find myself loading them up in Winamp too often. I feel similarly about the Flower Kings. Great musicians, some good music...just don't listen much.

Ahhh, now Marillion. I bought "Misplaced Childhood" (on vinyl) when it came out in '85. The local corner record store had a big display with a sign reading "The triumphant return of art rock!". Cover art looked cool so I bought it. When "Psuedo Silk Kimono" started I thought "my god its Peter Gabriel!". I now know how silly that sounds, but hey, first impressions.... Loved them with Fish, not so much with Steve H. I still buy their CD's and like them better now that I don't consider them the same band they were in '85. FWIW, I love "Afraid of Sunlight" & "Brave".

My first exposure to Dream Theater was seeing them open for Marillion in NYC (The Ritz) sometime during the late '80's. Not even sure if it was the original singer or if LaBrie was with them yet. Musically I love DT, but the voice can be grating. "Awake" and "Scenes From a Memory" are great though. Their newer stuff all sounds the same to me.

For me though nothing tops PTree. My prog roots are in the classics (Rush, Genesis, Gong, Crimson, Floyd etc) but the Tree are making some of the best new music currently.

 

[Liquid Tension]

I think Portnoy is a really good drummer, but not great; I could probably name at least 15 rock drummers I like better. The problem with Portnoy is that his style is exactly what it was 15 years ago. He is still playing all of the same fills, beats, etc. He has even said he doesn't have time to practice anymore, so when it comes time to record stuff, he just reaches into his usual bag of tricks. In other words, his playing has become stagnant and predictable. Several songs on the new album, I could practically air drum to them on the first listen because I knew what was coming (although I didn't literally air drum ).

I couldn't disagree with you more about Portnoy. His fills and little percussive hits within his fills are amazing and almost impossible to try and duplicate. Just ask drummers...Not to be critical, but it is like when people take any music and find something that it sounds like and they then are critical of it. There aren't 5 drummers I would put on stage with Portnoy.I do agree that Dream Theater should not be mainstream...they are too good for that.

 

[Liquid Tension]

First to address one of Bob's original questions...I was excited PT was putting out a DVD ("Arriving Somewhere..."). Musically I love it and feel its a great representation of the 'Deadwing' tour. However I really don't like the way it was shot. Great addition for any prog metal fan (PT prog metal?? Yeah I guess now they are).Liquid Tension, Ghost Rider - It seems our music collections are quite similar in terms of prog. Spock's Beard is another band I found from the '99 NEARFest lineup. When Neal Morse was mentioned as the singer on 'Snow' my first thought was that he wasn't on that CD. When I checked, it was in fact his last appearance with the band. Shows you how much I listen to them. They're OK, but I don't find myself loading them up in Winamp too often. I feel similarly about the Flower Kings. Great musicians, some good music...just don't listen much.Ahhh, now Marillion. I bought "Misplaced Childhood" (on vinyl) when it came out in '85. The local corner record store had a big display with a sign reading "The triumphant return of art rock!". Cover art looked cool so I bought it. When "Psuedo Silk Kimono" started I thought "my god its Peter Gabriel!". I now know how silly that sounds, but hey, first impressions.... Loved them with Fish, not so much with Steve H. I still buy their CD's and like them better now that I don't consider them the same band they were in '85. FWIW, I love "Afraid of Sunlight" & "Brave".My first exposure to Dream Theater was seeing them open for Marillion in NYC (The Ritz) sometime during the late '80's. Not even sure if it was the original singer or if LaBrie was with them yet. Musically I love DT, but the voice can be grating. "Awake" and "Scenes From a Memory" are great though. Their newer stuff all sounds the same to me.For me though nothing tops PTree. My prog roots are in the classics (Rush, Genesis, Gong, Crimson, Floyd etc) but the Tree are making some of the best new music currently.

I like all your roots, but maybe I am ignorant to one..."Gong" Not sure who that is? But I love Rush, Yes (not even mentioned so far) Floyd etc... I also am fans of Zeppelin and Deep Purple and Kansas...the list could go on.I think Misplaced Childhood had great emotion in that album. When music can give me goosbumps it moves up in my ranks, yet Marillion is not one of my top bands, but that album would be up there. I don;t even know what up there is anymore (top 100?)

 

[Ghost Rider]

First to address one of Bob's original questions...I was excited PT was putting out a DVD ("Arriving Somewhere..."). Musically I love it and feel its a great representation of the 'Deadwing' tour. However I really don't like the way it was shot. Great addition for any prog metal fan (PT prog metal?? Yeah I guess now they are).Liquid Tension, Ghost Rider - It seems our music collections are quite similar in terms of prog. Spock's Beard is another band I found from the '99 NEARFest lineup. When Neal Morse was mentioned as the singer on 'Snow' my first thought was that he wasn't on that CD. When I checked, it was in fact his last appearance with the band. Shows you how much I listen to them. They're OK, but I don't find myself loading them up in Winamp too often. I feel similarly about the Flower Kings. Great musicians, some good music...just don't listen much.Ahhh, now Marillion. I bought "Misplaced Childhood" (on vinyl) when it came out in '85. The local corner record store had a big display with a sign reading "The triumphant return of art rock!". Cover art looked cool so I bought it. When "Psuedo Silk Kimono" started I thought "my god its Peter Gabriel!". I now know how silly that sounds, but hey, first impressions.... Loved them with Fish, not so much with Steve H. I still buy their CD's and like them better now that I don't consider them the same band they were in '85. FWIW, I love "Afraid of Sunlight" & "Brave".My first exposure to Dream Theater was seeing them open for Marillion in NYC (The Ritz) sometime during the late '80's. Not even sure if it was the original singer or if LaBrie was with them yet. Musically I love DT, but the voice can be grating. "Awake" and "Scenes From a Memory" are great though. Their newer stuff all sounds the same to me.For me though nothing tops PTree. My prog roots are in the classics (Rush, Genesis, Gong, Crimson, Floyd etc) but the Tree are making some of the best new music currently.

I am not a real big fan of the way the PT DVD was shot, either. It was cool at first, but for repeated viewings, once the novelty wears off, it is like, okay, why couldn't they have just released it like a normal concert. It comes off as more of a documentary than a real concert. We are definitely on the same wavelength music-wise. Old prog giants like Genesis, Yes, Floyd, Moody Blues, Crimson, Rush, etc. are some of my favorite bands ever.Spock's Beard was good when they had Neal Morse, but they are terrible now without him. Their first album without him was really good, but the last two efforts were not good, outside of a few songs. And Morse is happy writing his christian-oriented prog rock. What a waste of talent.

I think Portnoy is a really good drummer, but not great; I could probably name at least 15 rock drummers I like better. The problem with Portnoy is that his style is exactly what it was 15 years ago. He is still playing all of the same fills, beats, etc. He has even said he doesn't have time to practice anymore, so when it comes time to record stuff, he just reaches into his usual bag of tricks. In other words, his playing has become stagnant and predictable. Several songs on the new album, I could practically air drum to them on the first listen because I knew what was coming (although I didn't literally air drum ).

I couldn't disagree with you more about Portnoy. His fills and little percussive hits within his fills are amazing and almost impossible to try and duplicate. Just ask drummers...Not to be critical, but it is like when people take any music and find something that it sounds like and they then are critical of it. There aren't 5 drummers I would put on stage with Portnoy.

I think the mistake you are making is assuming that if someone's work is hard to play, then they are better than someone whose work is not as hard to play. I never like that line of thinking. Heck, David Gilmour's guitar work isn't that hard to play, but it is some of the best ever. Meanwhile, Yngwie Malmsteen is one of the most technically proficient guitar players ever, but his playing is soulless and just plain boring. Back to Portnoy, like I said before, his inability to grow as a player is why I wouldn't put him in the top tier of rock drummers. Look at guys like Neil Peart and Bill Bruford. Long after they were established as drumming legends, they were still trying to do new things to better themselves. On the other hand, you have got a guy like Portnoy saying, "I don't have time to practice anymore," which tells me he either doesn't care about improving his craft anymore or he is content with relying on his little bag of tricks every single time out. There are some things Portnoy can do extremely well, and he relies on them constantly, but there are certain basic fundamentals of drumming that he even admits to not being very good at. But instead of trying to work on those things, he just sticks to what he knows. That is why I do not consider him the best or one of the best. In football terms, he is like a situational back. He can do a few things extremely well, and that is when you use him, but he is not a well-rounded and truly great player, especially in comparison to those who are.

 

[Bob Magaw]

thanx again to everybody for the recs, especially the detailed breakdowns by GR & LT...

OK, last night i went to amoeba & got 4 X PT (+ DVD on way, should have in a day or two)...

stars die, 2 disc set that is retrospective of early material (for the benefit of few in this thread that may not know this already), & three of more recent material that seemed to pop up a lot here (with somewhat mixed but generally enthusiastic reviews)... in abstentia, deadwing & fear of a blank planet...

i am maybe somewhat perversely listening to PT in reverse chronological order, most recent first... usually i would like to know how a band has evolved musically & stylistically (or already did from having heard previously), but since i am getting to the band late, i wanted to hear their most recent stuff right away...

i listened to blank planet (hereafter, referred to as BP) last night, & am listening to DW now...

initial impressions...

the creative spearhead, steven wilson (founder, leader, chief writer, guitarist, studio ace) is a genius, imo... probably this was said several times already upthread, & i know it was several times in checking out online reviews before taking the plunge...

i take it that their evolution has included lately shorter, more "song"-like structure, & more metal-like sound (at least in the "heavy" segments)...

i really like the staggering of lush, sometimes orchestrated or acoustic parts with the heavy parts... sometimes when i think of "stop-on-a-dime" tighness in a band i naturally think of prog rock (king crimson, ELP, yes, genesis, etc), & this band has it in force... though i'm sure their is a lot of over-dubbing in the studio, obviously, but i'm guessing this trait is replicated live...

brilliant guitar chops, varied stylistically, with a lot of layers...

phenomenal engineering, sound mix & recording... this is some of the better "SOUNDING" mixes i've ever heard... like george martin of the beatles benchmark material, pink floyd, steely dan & eagles-like perfectionism...

and unlike with some bands where there are complaints about chops for chops sake (hyper-fast but repetitive, boring, unimaginative noodling), i would characterise the material as pervasively MUSICAL... again, i haven't gotten to the early stuff yet, & it awaits to be seen if that impression holds up, but i have a good feeling based on what i'm hearing (albeit in reverse order... & no, i'm not going to listen to stars in die in reverse chronological order, like a music sequencing parallel of the movie memento )...

maybe the aspect of the band i like best is that they are very ATMOSPHERIC (i also got at amoeba an ambient collection of electronica artist aphex twin, & while very austere & minimalist, built with strikingly few elements, each song without exception literally builds up an alternate WORLD, & almost different musical reality)...

i have heard the pink floyd comparisons (but perhaps that is more related to early stuff)... they are not exactly like anybody i have heard... in some of the ultra-clean engineering, dynamics & mix of slow & heavy passages, the beatles circa abbey road came to mind (& maybe guitarist brian may of queen), but only tangentially... they are pretty unique...

needless to say i have been very impressed, & they are one of, i should probably say my favorite NEW band... i get the sense that the complexity of the music will bear up to many repeat listens, though the complexity doesn't get in the way of it being musical (i like music with a lot of layers & a lot going on, when it is done right & isn't too busy... on land (ambient series 4) by godfather of ambient eno is simple but many-layered, & it sounds like the event horizon of the sounds & "music" go on to infinity)...

i typically far prefer instrumental music (miles circa '69-'74), material/bill laswell's hallucination engine, etc, but have no problem with some music with lyrics (led zeppelin, pink floyd, king crimson, rush, steely dan, eagles, etc)... (EDIT/ADD) while wilson may not modulate his NATURAL voice a lot, it is so processed & treated electronically & in recording studio that for me it doesn't get in the way, & is almost like another musical instrument or textural element...

speaking of crimson, a "jazz" fusion super group with bruford & levin some here may like is called BLUE (for bruford/levin upper extremities), which also has avant shredder david torn on guitar & i think chris botti on trumpet... perhaps more jazz than rock, but it rocks at times... many here no of bruford, who played with yes & KC, as well as some brilliant solo material with alan holdsworth... levin has also been mentioned, and is EASILY one of my favorite bassists (when i think of my favorite bassists, i tend to think of seminal funk players like larry graham & bootsy, or fusion players such as miles michael henderson, stanley clarke, jaco, marcus miller... but in a rock context, levin might be peerless), & he has unbelievable range, from his exotic stick playing with KC, to his rock solid underpinning to peter gabriel... this similar cast of characters were also on an older project, cloud about mercury (with bruford & levin guesting on torn's project)...

amoeba didn't have jurassic by OT, or i would have snatched it up... probably order it today...

have next two days off, can't wait to sink my teeth into in absentia & stars die (& DVD when it comes)...

(EDIT/ADD) - though i'd have to listen more to discern their actual contributions, it was nice to see former/current prog-rock gods fripp & lifeson give their impratur to the new disc BP by playing on it...

definitely on the same wavelength as some of the thread contributors... bruford & peart probably my favorite "rock" drummers, probably tony williams & billy cobham in jazz (with miles, mahavishnu orchestra & in their solo material)... though of course bruford & peart have done jazz-like rock & williams & cobham have done rock-like jazz...

 

[Leroy Hoard]

For those that can deal with death prog metal, Opeth has been working with Steve Wilson for their last few albums...

 

[suchislife]

i take it that their evolution has included lately shorter, more "song"-like structure, & more metal-like sound (at least in the "heavy" segments)...

PT started to build their popularity and fanbase in the earl/mid 90's with a very psychedelic sound with "Up the Down Stair", "Voyage 34" & "The Sky Moves Sideways", which features a 34 minute version of the title track(!). They had a very Floyd-like sound. In 2001 they signed on with Atlantic Records. With this came a new, and current, drummer (Gavin Harrison). I remember hearing or reading an interview with Steve Wilson that their original drummer didn't want the burden of the "big label". Also with the new label came the "new sound". SW admitted that they needed the heavier sound to appeal to an American audience. Selling out? Maybe, but I can't argue with the results!

i really like the staggering of lush, sometimes orchestrated or acoustic parts with the heavy parts... sometimes when i think of "stop-on-a-dime" tighness in a band i naturally think of prog rock (king crimson, ELP, yes, genesis, etc), & this band has it in force... though i'm sure their is a lot of over-dubbing in the studio, obviously, but i'm guessing this trait is replicated live...

Around the same time as the Atlantic signing, PT included John Wesley (guitar) on the studio recordings and a permanent unofficial 5th tourning member. He's been with them since the "In Absentia" tour and certainly helps maintain the 'layered' sound. Prior to PT, Wesley worked closely with members of Marillion (Fish's guitarist and co-writer) and served as the opener for both Marillion and Fish.

i have heard the pink floyd comparisons (but perhaps that is more related to early stuff)... they are not exactly like anybody i have heard... in some of the ultra-clean engineering, dynamics & mix of slow & heavy passages, the beatles circa abbey road came to mind (& maybe guitarist brian may of queen), but only tangentially... they are pretty unique...

As mentioned above, they were much more Floydesque prior to their Atlantic signing. As I mentioned in an early post I was a big PT fan prior to "In Absentia". I collect a lot of live music and started hearing the change on a 2001, maybe early 2002 show when they played an unreleased track, "Futile" (written for IA but didn't make the cut - released later as bonus material). Their (should I say 'his'?) very early stuff from '89/'90 can almost be described as Syd-like. Some very weird, heady material.As for the engineering and mixing, I have their last 3 releases in DVD-A DTS Surround. Holy crap! "Arriving Somewhere..." in surround...that's all I can say. No need for psychedelics, the music does it all.

needless to say i have been very impressed, & they are one of, i should probably say my favorite NEW band... i get the sense that the complexity of the music will bear up to many repeat listens, though the complexity doesn't get in the way of it being musical (i like music with a lot of layers & a lot going on, when it is done right & isn't too busy... on land (ambient series 4) by godfather of ambient eno is simple but many-layered, & it sounds like the event horizon of the sounds & "music" go on to infinity)...

Hate to keep repeating myself, but I think they are the best band currently making music. And their live shows don't disappoint.

 

[Ghost Rider]

thanx again to everybody for the recs, especially the detailed breakdowns by GR & LT...

OK, last night i went to amoeba & got 4 X PT (+ DVD on way, should have in a day or two)...

stars die, 2 disc set that is retrospective of early material (for the benefit of few in this thread that may not know this already), & three of more recent material that seemed to pop up a lot here (with somewhat mixed but generally enthusiastic reviews)... in abstentia, deadwing & fear of a blank planet...

i am maybe somewhat perversely listening to PT in reverse chronological order, most recent first... usually i would like to know how a band has evolved musically & stylistically (or already did from having heard previously), but since i am getting to the band late, i wanted to hear their most recent stuff right away...

i listened to blank planet (hereafter, referred to as BP) last night, & am listening to DW now...

initial impressions...

the creative spearhead, steven wilson (founder, leader, chief writer, guitarist, studio ace) is a genius, imo... probably this was said several times already upthread, & i know it was several times in checking out online reviews before taking the plunge...

i take it that their evolution has included lately shorter, more "song"-like structure, & more metal-like sound (at least in the "heavy" segments)...

i really like the staggering of lush, sometimes orchestrated or acoustic parts with the heavy parts... sometimes when i think of "stop-on-a-dime" tighness in a band i naturally think of prog rock (king crimson, ELP, yes, genesis, etc), & this band has it in force... though i'm sure their is a lot of over-dubbing in the studio, obviously, but i'm guessing this trait is replicated live...

brilliant guitar chops, varied stylistically, with a lot of layers...

phenomenal engineering, sound mix & recording... this is some of the better "SOUNDING" mixes i've ever heard... like george martin of the beatles benchmark material, pink floyd, steely dan & eagles-like perfectionism...

and unlike with some bands where there are complaints about chops for chops sake (hyper-fast but repetitive, boring, unimaginative noodling), i would characterise the material as pervasively MUSICAL... again, i haven't gotten to the early stuff yet, & it awaits to be seen if that impression holds up, but i have a good feeling based on what i'm hearing (albeit in reverse order... & no, i'm not going to listen to stars in die in reverse chronological order, like a music sequencing parallel of the movie memento )...

maybe the aspect of the band i like best is that they are very ATMOSPHERIC (i also got at amoeba an ambient collection of electronica artist aphex twin, & while very austere & minimalist, built with strikingly few elements, each song without exception literally builds up an alternate WORLD, & almost different musical reality)...

i have heard the pink floyd comparisons (but perhaps that is more related to early stuff)... they are not exactly like anybody i have heard... in some of the ultra-clean engineering, dynamics & mix of slow & heavy passages, the beatles circa abbey road came to mind (& maybe guitarist brian may of queen), but only tangentially... they are pretty unique...

needless to say i have been very impressed, & they are one of, i should probably say my favorite NEW band... i get the sense that the complexity of the music will bear up to many repeat listens, though the complexity doesn't get in the way of it being musical (i like music with a lot of layers & a lot going on, when it is done right & isn't too busy... on land (ambient series 4) by godfather of ambient eno is simple but many-layered, & it sounds like the event horizon of the sounds & "music" go on to infinity)...

i typically far prefer instrumental music (miles circa '69-'74), material/bill laswell's hallucination engine, etc, but have no problem with some music with lyrics (led zeppelin, pink floyd, king crimson, rush, steely dan, eagles, etc)... (EDIT/ADD) while wilson may not modulate his NATURAL voice a lot, it is so processed & treated electronically & in recording studio that for me it doesn't get in the way, & is almost like another musical instrument or textural element...

speaking of crimson, a "jazz" fusion super group with bruford & levin some here may like is called BLUE (for bruford/levin upper extremities), which also has avant shredder david torn on guitar & i think chris botti on trumpet... perhaps more jazz than rock, but it rocks at times... many here no of bruford, who played with yes & KC, as well as some brilliant solo material with alan holdsworth... levin has also been mentioned, and is EASILY one of my favorite bassists (when i think of my favorite bassists, i tend to think of seminal funk players like larry graham & bootsy, or fusion players such as miles michael henderson, stanley clarke, jaco, marcus miller... but in a rock context, levin might be peerless), & he has unbelievable range, from his exotic stick playing with KC, to his rock solid underpinning to peter gabriel... this similar cast of characters were also on an older project, cloud about mercury (with bruford & levin guesting on torn's project)...

amoeba didn't have jurassic by OT, or i would have snatched it up... probably order it today...

have next two days off, can't wait to sink my teeth into in absentia & stars die (& DVD when it comes)...

(EDIT/ADD) - though i'd have to listen more to discern their actual contributions, it was nice to see former/current prog-rock gods fripp & lifeson give their impratur to the new disc BP by playing on it...

definitely on the same wavelength as some of the thread contributors... bruford & peart probably my favorite "rock" drummers, probably tony williams & billy cobham in jazz (with miles, mahavishnu orchestra & in their solo material)... though of course bruford & peart have done jazz-like rock & williams & cobham have done rock-like jazz...

Nice observations. The atmospheric side and the fact that they do not show off much despite the fact that they could given their chops are appealing factors for me. That, and the fact that they write nothing but great songs.

Also, excellent call on the sound and production of their records; their stuff is some of the best produced music of the last few years. Every instrument is always crystal clear, and you can hear all of the little intricacies and such that they always include. I'll take that over overcompressed records, which seem to be the norm now.

For those that can deal with death prog metal, Opeth has been working with Steve Wilson for their last few albums...

Wilson didn't work with Opeth on their last album (and he isn't working with them on the forthcoming album), but he did produce the three albums prior to the last album. He also played mellotron on Deliverance and Damnation, and he even sang on Bleak from Blackwater Park, which incidentally is a terrific record.

Around the same time as the Atlantic signing, PT included John Wesley (guitar) on the studio recordings and a permanent unofficial 5th tourning member. He's been with them since the "In Absentia" tour and certainly helps maintain the 'layered' sound.

Aside from a few vocal harmonies, I do not think Wesley records in the studio with the band. He is mainly a hired gun for touring, since no one else in the band could do harmonies with Wilson once Chris Maitland left the band earlier this decade. Having a second guitar player helps live, too, given the layering that their newer stuff has, as you noted. Also, to touch on one of your other points, I don't think they went a little heavy solely to appeal to more people. Over the years, Steven Wilson has been getting into more and more metal (I know Meshuggah is a favorite of his), and I think the newer PT sound is just a reflection of how his tastes have changed; kind of like how their late 90's stuff was a bit influenced by Radiohead, whom Wilson has just gotten into back then.

Lastly, I will say now what I have said many times over the years: Their record company is filled with bozos. How Trains wasn't pushed back when In Absentia came out is one of the biggest musical mysteries of my lifetime. That song could have been and would have been huge, had it been promoted correctly. I have gotten quite a few people into PT over the last few years, and in almost every case, I converted them by simply playing them Trains.

 

[Bob Magaw]

listened to IA & it was my favorite so far of the three i've listened to... though i listened to it a few times, & need to do same for DW & BP...

amazingly good, shockingly, even... it might be one of the best CDs of its kind i've ever heard... i'll need more perspective to confirm that... the last CD i remember liking this much right away (& actually i didn't even like it as much as this), was soft bulletin by the flaming lips... another superbly engineered, mixed & recorded recent work, also at times compared to floyd...

i heard of the surround sound mixes on PTs last three releases, but alas, the system in which i recently got a surround sound (definitive procinema with upgraded center & subwoofer - heard sounds on laswell's hallucination engine i'd never heard before) has been using blu-ray as CD player, & it doesn't support the DVD-audio format... maybe that alone will give me incentive to get a conventional CD player (that handles the format) for that system...

definitely looking forward to hearing the surround sound mix in action on the DVD arriving...

i'll check out the stars die compilation tomorrow, & delve into the roots of their evolution... wilson seems like one of those guys whose genius was sprung on the world already fully formed...

 

[WampusCat43]

I prefer the 2nd CD Stars Die 1994-97 to the older one, but it's close. Nothing beats IA, though. That Prodigal/.3 back-to-back, coming on the heels of Blackest Eyes and Trains, sold me on this band.

And like I said before, their live show sounds amazingly like their recordings. There's also a couple Youtube recordings as well, if that hasn't been mentioned before.

 

[Ghost Rider]

wilson seems like one of those guys whose genius was sprung on the world already fully formed...

Yes and no. When you eventually listen to PT's whole discography in order, you will hear how he evolved as a songwriter. It wasn't like he had mastered it all right off the bat, but there were definitely glimpses right away, and he continued to build on that, until Signify, his first true masterpiece, IMO.

And like I said before, their live show sounds amazingly like their recordings.

I agree with that to a point, but not in the case of the vocal harmonies. In the studio, the harmonies are also so lush and layered, it is stunning how great they sound. Live, the harmonies sound pretty good, but not nearly as good. Musically, though, they manage to pull it off very close to the studio originals.

 

[dickey moe]

thanx again to everybody for the recs, especially the detailed breakdowns by GR & LT...OK, last night i went to amoeba & got 4 X PT (+ DVD on way, should have in a day or two)...stars die, 2 disc set that is retrospective of early material (for the benefit of few in this thread that may not know this already), & three of more recent material that seemed to pop up a lot here (with somewhat mixed but generally enthusiastic reviews)... in abstentia, deadwing & fear of a blank planet...i am maybe somewhat perversely listening to PT in reverse chronological order, most recent first... usually i would like to know how a band has evolved musically & stylistically (or already did from having heard previously), but since i am getting to the band late, i wanted to hear their most recent stuff right away...i listened to blank planet (hereafter, referred to as BP) last night, & am listening to DW now... initial impressions...the creative spearhead, steven wilson (founder, leader, chief writer, guitarist, studio ace) is a genius, imo... probably this was said several times already upthread, & i know it was several times in checking out online reviews before taking the plunge...i take it that their evolution has included lately shorter, more "song"-like structure, & more metal-like sound (at least in the "heavy" segments)...i really like the staggering of lush, sometimes orchestrated or acoustic parts with the heavy parts... sometimes when i think of "stop-on-a-dime" tighness in a band i naturally think of prog rock (king crimson, ELP, yes, genesis, etc), & this band has it in force... though i'm sure their is a lot of over-dubbing in the studio, obviously, but i'm guessing this trait is replicated live...brilliant guitar chops, varied stylistically, with a lot of layers...phenomenal engineering, sound mix & recording... this is some of the better "SOUNDING" mixes i've ever heard... like george martin of the beatles benchmark material, pink floyd, steely dan & eagles-like perfectionism...and unlike with some bands where there are complaints about chops for chops sake (hyper-fast but repetitive, boring, unimaginative noodling), i would characterise the material as pervasively MUSICAL... again, i haven't gotten to the early stuff yet, & it awaits to be seen if that impression holds up, but i have a good feeling based on what i'm hearing (albeit in reverse order... & no, i'm not going to listen to stars in die in reverse chronological order, like a music sequencing parallel of the movie memento )...maybe the aspect of the band i like best is that they are very ATMOSPHERIC (i also got at amoeba an ambient collection of electronica artist aphex twin, & while very austere & minimalist, built with strikingly few elements, each song without exception literally builds up an alternate WORLD, & almost different musical reality)...i have heard the pink floyd comparisons (but perhaps that is more related to early stuff)... they are not exactly like anybody i have heard... in some of the ultra-clean engineering, dynamics & mix of slow & heavy passages, the beatles circa abbey road came to mind (& maybe guitarist brian may of queen), but only tangentially... they are pretty unique...needless to say i have been very impressed, & they are one of, i should probably say my favorite NEW band... i get the sense that the complexity of the music will bear up to many repeat listens, though the complexity doesn't get in the way of it being musical (i like music with a lot of layers & a lot going on, when it is done right & isn't too busy... on land (ambient series 4) by godfather of ambient eno is simple but many-layered, & it sounds like the event horizon of the sounds & "music" go on to infinity)...i typically far prefer instrumental music (miles circa '69-'74), material/bill laswell's hallucination engine, etc, but have no problem with some music with lyrics (led zeppelin, pink floyd, king crimson, rush, steely dan, eagles, etc)... (EDIT/ADD) while wilson may not modulate his NATURAL voice a lot, it is so processed & treated electronically & in recording studio that for me it doesn't get in the way, & is almost like another musical instrument or textural element... speaking of crimson, a "jazz" fusion super group with bruford & levin some here may like is called BLUE (for bruford/levin upper extremities), which also has avant shredder david torn on guitar & i think chris botti on trumpet... perhaps more jazz than rock, but it rocks at times... many here no of bruford, who played with yes & KC, as well as some brilliant solo material with alan holdsworth... levin has also been mentioned, and is EASILY one of my favorite bassists (when i think of my favorite bassists, i tend to think of seminal funk players like larry graham & bootsy, or fusion players such as miles michael henderson, stanley clarke, jaco, marcus miller... but in a rock context, levin might be peerless), & he has unbelievable range, from his exotic stick playing with KC, to his rock solid underpinning to peter gabriel... this similar cast of characters were also on an older project, cloud about mercury (with bruford & levin guesting on torn's project)...amoeba didn't have jurassic by OT, or i would have snatched it up... probably order it today...have next two days off, can't wait to sink my teeth into in absentia & stars die (& DVD when it comes)... (EDIT/ADD) - though i'd have to listen more to discern their actual contributions, it was nice to see former/current prog-rock gods fripp & lifeson give their impratur to the new disc BP by playing on it...definitely on the same wavelength as some of the thread contributors... bruford & peart probably my favorite "rock" drummers, probably tony williams & billy cobham in jazz (with miles, mahavishnu orchestra & in their solo material)... though of course bruford & peart have done jazz-like rock & williams & cobham have done rock-like jazz...

Great write-up -- you obviously know music really well. We need to get you an invite over to the *hoof* if you're not already over there. (PM Ahrn or JZilla).

 

[Bob Magaw]

i'm pretty sure steven wilson is an alien life form...

why do i think this?

somehow he has managed through acoustic & sonic means to weaponize his music & insinuate it into my brain & completely deactivate my critical faculties (they shot the lock off the box in my head where they are stored & stole them )...

because in my mind this band can do no wrong (SERIOUSLY)...

one attribute of the band that i neglected to mention, but goes along with being ATMOSPHERIC, is their CINEMATIC quality... on some numbers, when they go from a heavy ryhthmic part to a more lush, orchestrated & acoustic part, it reminded me of a passage in philip ****'s three stigmata of palmer eldritch (in which competing hallucinogens are vying for the minds of the solar system's populace)... in one hallucination, one of the character talks about how the hallucination had somehow been projected, stabilized & sustained, & all of a sudden it went out like a switch had been turned to off, & everthing went to a white background (much like the scenes in the first matrix where morpheus is explaining the matrix to neo, or where neo goes to arm himself later for a rescue attempt)....

i saw the DVD, first on DTS (surround mix freaked me out... on one song, synth made a sound that was like what police sirens in blade runner SHOULD HAVE SOUNDED LIKE!), than something i don't usually do, watched it back to back (next on PCM stereo... both great incidentally)... i'm watching the surround mix again this morning... imo, their music is so good it could almost be reference quality to test your system... & the better your system is, you will hear some amazing things...

i have many music DVDs (one of my favorites is steely dan), & this is definitely now one of my favorites... musically speaking i can't say PT has supplanted my previous all time favorites (miles, pink floyd, laswell, etc), but they have passed a whole bunch of other acts, & are gaining on them like an out of control freight train...

i had no problem with the editing, but that may have been because i was so enthralled with the music... the sound, mix & recording was RIDICULOUSLY clean... don't know if they edited out some crowd noise (during songs), but they did leave some (between songs)...

after seeing them i can now appreciate how the keyboardist (richard barbieri?) adds a ton to the atmospherics... the rhythm section are talented without calling attention to themselves... the bass is unobtrusive but has the low end locked down, & the drummer is effortless at shifting between the TECTONIC-like tempo changes & switches within songs... also the second guitarist (richard wesley?) is no slouch & has the ability to interchange rythm & lead, & to solo when wilson is playing acoustic... but it was wilson & the keyboardist that really blew me away...

it confirmed that they are an extremely tight band, & while they may not be able to squeeze EVERYTHING they do in the studio & translate it onto the stage (obviously, if you have layered on something like 100 separate tracks on some songs), they do a lot, & the tempo change & abrupt shifts in dynamics are relpicated near flawlessly... again, they have a supremely clean sound here, but possibly some of that is from the engineering & mastering in post-production?

i listened to disc 1 of stars die, didn't get to 2 yet as i had to chack out the DVD...

i agree that clearly the band developed... both in terms of stylistically & not being quite as polished in the studio right out of the gate... but it definitely wasn't juvenalia stuff to be embarrassed about... what i heard on disc 1 exceeded my expectations, & was ALREADY better than 97-99% of just about every other kind of music being played since then... after listening to it in retrospect, i could see how some would have had enough information in their possession to make the determination that wilson & PT had big league talent...

* thanx DM for the rec, i'll check it out...

EDIT/ADD - if i were to compare them to anybody now, i would say they have the power, range & sense of dynamics of king crimson in prog-rock & mahavishnu orchestra in fusion, with the innate good taste & ability to make pop songs like the beatles & todd rundgren, with the heavy parts played in a classic & contemporary metal style... off-the-charts range...

 

[Ghost Rider]

Nice write-up, Bob Magaw. Any new revelations about this wonderful band?

 

[Bob Magaw]

been pretty busy lately, haven't been able to set aside a lot of time to listen to the new stuff...

i did order the new 2 disc version of signify on strong recommendation above, also their live CD (warzawa?)...

have been listening to disc two of stars die retrospective in car... i can really see where the floyd comparisons come from... part of that is that keyboardist appears to play the mellotron (among many other electric keys, synths), which early king crimson also played...

before i heard their body of work, i would have thought i'd have liked the earlier stuff better, based on my affinity for floyd... & though i like both A LOT, i think i like their more recent, heavier stuff better, at least based on the live DVD... after watching it 3-4 times, still in awe of the overall musicality of the performances, diversity of styles, seismic tempo changes...

RIDICULOUSLY tight band, though i'm still most in awe of wilson & the keyboardist, whose features remind me of james spader, but his visage or countenence of geoffrey rush...

still EASILY my favorite new band (new to me)...

will report back as i get a chance to listen to the rest...

 

[jerseyh8r]

Glad to hear other guys enjoying PT.

Bob- Once you are finished perusing the PT discography, take a quick peak at a Blackfield disc...some very solid writing by Wilson, but with a more pop/rock sensibility (which won't likely be as much to your liking, but some good stuff all the same and wholly mixed and produced by Wilson)

<fingerscrossed>As an aside...hopefully this will be the year that we get a side-project disc from Akerfeldt (Opeth), Wilson (PT) and Portnoy (DT). Rumors have been floating around for 4 years now that Wilson has written a bunch of stuff that is too "heavy" for the tastes of his PT bandmates, and Akerfeldt wants to play some stuff a little more "mellow" than Opeth...they have agreed that they both want to do a project together when the opportunity presents itself. (Portnoy just can't help but stay busy, and hopefully wouldn't have too much to do with the writing process.) Seems as though we may have to wait another year (DT and Opeth will both be touring this summer--check out Progressive Nation) and I don't know if there will be time....maybe something at the end of the year </<fingerscrossed>

 

[jerseyh8r]

Spock's Beard was good when they had Neal Morse, but they are terrible now without him. Their first album without him was really good, but the last two efforts were not good, outside of a few songs. And Morse is happy writing his christian-oriented prog rock. What a waste of talent.

Agree and Disagree....Spock's Beard was good with Neal, but I find post-Neal SB to be boring and somewhat un-listenable. However, whether or not his music is accessible to everyone (by excluding those people who are turned off by his Christian prog)...he continues to put out some wonderful music with top-notch talent supporting him (most recently including Jordan Rudess and Paul Gilbert...and yes, Portnoy-as always-on drums). Personally, I thought that Sola Scriptura was a great disc and one of the best of 2007.<tangent>I don't understand why some people are turned off by Neal Morse's "fictional" content, and yet those same people can be accepting of other materials that are also fictional (i.e. Ayreon---New album Tuesday BTW). Is is just that Neal believes that what he is saying is true and Arjen does not..should it matter to me, the listener? Maybe a discussion for another thread, another day.</tangent>

 

[Ghost Rider]

been pretty busy lately, haven't been able to set aside a lot of time to listen to the new stuff...

i did order the new 2 disc version of signify on strong recommendation above, also their live CD (warzawa?)...

have been listening to disc two of stars die retrospective in car... i can really see where the floyd comparisons come from... part of that is that keyboardist appears to play the mellotron (among many other electric keys, synths), which early king crimson also played...

before i heard their body of work, i would have thought i'd have liked the earlier stuff better, based on my affinity for floyd... & though i like both A LOT, i think i like their more recent, heavier stuff better, at least based on the live DVD... after watching it 3-4 times, still in awe of the overall musicality of the performances, diversity of styles, seismic tempo changes...

RIDICULOUSLY tight band, though i'm still most in awe of wilson & the keyboardist, whose features remind me of james spader, but his visage or countenence of geoffrey rush...

still EASILY my favorite new band (new to me)...

will report back as i get a chance to listen to the rest...

Glad to hear other guys enjoying PT.

Bob- Once you are finished perusing the PT discography, take a quick peak at a Blackfield disc...some very solid writing by Wilson, but with a more pop/rock sensibility (which won't likely be as much to your liking, but some good stuff all the same and wholly mixed and produced by Wilson)

Good call on the Blackfield discs. I like the first one a lot, and love the second one to death; in fact, the second one was one of my most played records of 2007.

<fingerscrossed>As an aside...hopefully this will be the year that we get a side-project disc from Akerfeldt (Opeth), Wilson (PT) and Portnoy (DT). Rumors have been floating around for 4 years now that Wilson has written a bunch of stuff that is too "heavy" for the tastes of his PT bandmates, and Akerfeldt wants to play some stuff a little more "mellow" than Opeth...they have agreed that they both want to do a project together when the opportunity presents itself. (Portnoy just can't help but stay busy, and hopefully wouldn't have too much to do with the writing process.) Seems as though we may have to wait another year (DT and Opeth will both be touring this summer--check out Progressive Nation) and I don't know if there will be time....maybe something at the end of the year </<fingerscrossed>

Portnoy is not a sure thing for the side project. Wilson has said all along that it is a planned Akerfeldt/Wilson side project, but when Portnoy heard about it, he volunteered to be a part of it. Whenever Wilson talks about it, he always talks about it being an Akerfeldt/Wilson thing. I get the impression that it will happen when Wilson and Akerfeldt have time, and if Portnoy happens to be available, then he will be a part of it, but if not, they will just get another drummer. In other words, Portnoy's presence will not make or break it from happening. Personally, I hope Portnoy is not a part of it. His metal drumming is way too double bass drum-happy, and I am not sure that would fit well with the style of metal that Wilson likes to play.

Spock's Beard was good when they had Neal Morse, but they are terrible now without him. Their first album without him was really good, but the last two efforts were not good, outside of a few songs. And Morse is happy writing his christian-oriented prog rock. What a waste of talent.

Agree and Disagree....Spock's Beard was good with Neal, but I find post-Neal SB to be boring and somewhat un-listenable. However, whether or not his music is accessible to everyone (by excluding those people who are turned off by his Christian prog)...he continues to put out some wonderful music with top-notch talent supporting him (most recently including Jordan Rudess and Paul Gilbert...and yes, Portnoy-as always-on drums). Personally, I thought that Sola Scriptura was a great disc and one of the best of 2007.<tangent>I don't understand why some people are turned off by Neal Morse's "fictional" content, and yet those same people can be accepting of other materials that are also fictional (i.e. Ayreon---New album Tuesday BTW). Is is just that Neal believes that what he is saying is true and Arjen does not..should it matter to me, the listener? Maybe a discussion for another thread, another day.</tangent>

As a Christian, I have had no problem with Neal's lyrics for the most part, but he way overboard with the ones on Sola Scriptura, an album I also thought was too much of the same old, same old from him. The Question Mark album, which featured Rudess, Roine Stolt, Steve Hackett, etc., was incredible, though, and probably as good as anything Neal did with Spock's Beard. I thought Testimony's lyrical content was very cool, as it told Neal's life story. Musically, he repeated himself way too much at times (how many reprises are on it?), but the best songs on the record are some of the best he has ever written.

The problem with Neal's music now is he seems to be content doing "prog by the numbers," for lack of a better phrase. He is not doing anything he hasn't done a dozen times already.

 

[Ghost Rider]

If you are a fan of Porcupine Tree at all, you need to check out Steven Wilson's new solos album, Insurgentes. Freaking awesome. It kind of harkens back to the atmospheric and dreamy sounds of mid-90s PT, but has that slight bit of edge at times that the newer PT has. It is a major grower, however. The catchy melodies are almost nowhere to be found. But there are some amazing ones, but you just have to dig a bit and let them sink in. Once they do, oh man, the whole album is just awesome.

I think the official U.S. release date is on the 24th of this month, but the special edition has been out for a few months, courtesy of his online site, which sold a limited number, so I have been enjoying it already for months.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Okay, who else has the new PT record, The Incident? In short, it is fantastic.

Disc 1 is a 14-track, 55-minute song cycle (not one song, a song cycle!), that is terrific. It can be difficult to wrap your head around it, as the tracks pretty much all flow together, with a few exceptions, making you feel like you have to treat it as one song, but that is not true. Either way, this song cycle pretty much runs the gauntlet as far as what PT is and the many different styles they cover.

Disc 2 has four songs, all of which are magnificent. Even if you are having trouble with Disc 1, it is worth buying just for these four songs.

It is also noteworthy that, even though it is a double disc, it is sold for single disc price.

 

[WampusCat43]

Thanks for the reminder. Been looking forward to this.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Trailer for PT's forthcoming DVD/Blu-Ray, which should be out next month:

http://www.porcupinetree.com/anesthetize.cfm

Looks awesome. This is gonna be good.