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Presidential Debate Thread - Obama vs. Romney (2 Viewers)

I could have swore I just watched Romney talk for an hour and a half to a disinterested Democrat about how he wanted to close loopholes in the tax code.

Pretty sure Romney is aware of that loophole, and I'm also pretty sure if Obama would have called him on it, Romney would have explained what the loophole actually is and that it isn't what Obama was saying it is (even if it can work that way).

Oh and as far as not charging taxes on money earned overseas by American companies... Well, if you need to have that explained to you to understand why that's necessary than I can't help you. But that has to happen or American companies won't be able to operate internationally. Modern companies take way too much money for a business to be able to survive being double taxed on any revenue earned in a foreign country.
It's very dangerous and naive to think Romney's going to bite the hand that feeds him personally....just sayin'. Yeah, he's talked about closing loopholes, but never come close to indicating which ones. I wouldn't feel comfortable making the assumptions you are making here. This is politics and personal wealth we are talking about here.
If he doesn't, on some level, "bite the hand that feeds him" then there is no more tax code for him to reform...I don't see how we can take what he says as either he is 100% lying and he has no intention on doing anything he is saying (i.e. he's a sociopath to a ridiculous level and we're screwed if he is even capable of running for office and hiding how bad he is) or that he is, on some level, going to "bite the hand that feeds him" and close some of the loopholes he has personally taken advantage of in the past...
I've not said anything of the sort. :shrug: I simply believe that he will look to everything BUT the things he benefits from. Call me a skeptic, but history shows this approach to be very popular amongst politicians.
But with the money he has, which loopholes aren't he taking advantage of?I'm just saying there are people saying there aren't enough loopholes at all for him to close and make a dent in the cuts he is proposing (and he's saying they'll even out), so how can there possibly be enough if he doesn't close the ones people who are ridiculously wealthy abuse/use?
Um . . . exactly. His plan will not do what he said during the debate.
 
Just so everyone is on the same page, corporations can deduct the business expenses of moving jobs/ operations from onshore to offshore. They can also deduct those expenses if they move from one domestic location to another. So there's no special deduction for moving jobs overseas, but businesses can get a tax "break" for doing so. Of course taxes are generally inconsequential in those decisions, which I'm sure both candidates know.
Sorta like you or I who move from one place to another. Those moving expenses are tax deductible as well.
 
I could have swore I just watched Romney talk for an hour and a half to a disinterested Democrat about how he wanted to close loopholes in the tax code.

Pretty sure Romney is aware of that loophole, and I'm also pretty sure if Obama would have called him on it, Romney would have explained what the loophole actually is and that it isn't what Obama was saying it is (even if it can work that way).

Oh and as far as not charging taxes on money earned overseas by American companies... Well, if you need to have that explained to you to understand why that's necessary than I can't help you. But that has to happen or American companies won't be able to operate internationally. Modern companies take way too much money for a business to be able to survive being double taxed on any revenue earned in a foreign country.
It's very dangerous and naive to think Romney's going to bite the hand that feeds him personally....just sayin'. Yeah, he's talked about closing loopholes, but never come close to indicating which ones. I wouldn't feel comfortable making the assumptions you are making here. This is politics and personal wealth we are talking about here.
If he doesn't, on some level, "bite the hand that feeds him" then there is no more tax code for him to reform...I don't see how we can take what he says as either he is 100% lying and he has no intention on doing anything he is saying (i.e. he's a sociopath to a ridiculous level and we're screwed if he is even capable of running for office and hiding how bad he is) or that he is, on some level, going to "bite the hand that feeds him" and close some of the loopholes he has personally taken advantage of in the past...
I've not said anything of the sort. :shrug: I simply believe that he will look to everything BUT the things he benefits from. Call me a skeptic, but history shows this approach to be very popular amongst politicians.
But with the money he has, which loopholes aren't he taking advantage of?I'm just saying there are people saying there aren't enough loopholes at all for him to close and make a dent in the cuts he is proposing (and he's saying they'll even out), so how can there possibly be enough if he doesn't close the ones people who are ridiculously wealthy abuse/use?
To be clear. There WILL be loopholes that he'll close that he uses. They will likely be those that yield the least to him. That makes your last part a very good question. The math simply doesn't add up :shrug:
 
Just so everyone is on the same page, corporations can deduct the business expenses of moving jobs/ operations from onshore to offshore. They can also deduct those expenses if they move from one domestic location to another.

So there's no special deduction for moving jobs overseas, but businesses can get a tax "break" for doing so. Of course taxes are generally inconsequential in those decisions, which I'm sure both candidates know.
Right. The Obama position is to not allow businesses to deduct those expenses if the jobs/operations are moving overseas, to leave the deduction intact when moving within the USA.
I don't see how it can be justified to do one but not both...I mean, why is moving from Wisconsin to Tennessee covered, but moving from Wisconsin to India not? They both hurt Wisconsin just as much...
Congress can incentivize pretty much any activity they want through the tax code, especially after the NFIB v Sebilis decision this past June.
 
Just so everyone is on the same page, corporations can deduct the business expenses of moving jobs/ operations from onshore to offshore. They can also deduct those expenses if they move from one domestic location to another. So there's no special deduction for moving jobs overseas, but businesses can get a tax "break" for doing so. Of course taxes are generally inconsequential in those decisions, which I'm sure both candidates know.
Sorta like you or I who move from one place to another. Those moving expenses are tax deductible as well.
Yep, and just like with us the tax part of the equation is unlikely to make a meaningful difference in what we do. This whole line of campaigning is ridiculous on both sides. If we want to help jobs at home, we need workers skilled correctly for the jobs that will create middle class income for the next century.
 
Romney adviser fields questions on pre-existing conditions

Posted by

CNN's Gregory Wallace

(CNN) – Eric Fehrnstrom, a top aide to Mitt Romney, suggested in a Thursday interview with CNN that the GOP presidential candidate's health plan may achieve his goal of covering individuals with pre-existing conditions through "state initiatives and money."

Asked at Wednesday's debate what he would put in place of President Barack Obama's health care law, Romney offered two particular provisions: "Number one, pre-existing conditions are covered under my plan. Number two, young people are able to stay on their family plan."

– Follow the Ticker on Twitter: @PoliticalTicker

– Check out the CNN Electoral Map and Calculator and game out your own strategy for November.

In the interview on CNN's "The Situation Room," Fehrnstrom said "the governor is a federalist when it comes to health care," and supports giving state governments flexibility to craft their own state laws.

When pressed whether Romney would require states to include a pre-existing conditions stipulation in their legislation, Fehrnstrom answered: "We will give the state initiatives and money so that they can manage these decisions on their own. But, of course, we'd like them to see them continue that pre-existing band for those who have continuous coverage."

As governor of Massachusetts, Romney signed a health reform law which included protections against people with pre-existing conditions being denied health coverage or being charged higher prices.

While some, including the president, have characterized the Romney and Obama models as similar, Romney has said his law was appropriate for his state but would not be appropriate nationally.

"The plan we put in place here in Massachusetts works for the people of Massachusetts," Fehrnstrom said, echoing an argument Romney makes on the campaign trail. "The governor will repeal Obamacare and he will return to the states the power to control their own health care futures."

Fehrnstrom explained that Romney supports giving states power to determine what plan best suits their local needs, but also supports a guarantee of coverage for those who, absent legislation, might be denied insurance or reach coverage limits, an aim of Obama's legislation.

"The governor believes that those who have continuous coverage should not be dropped, if they change plans and have a pre-existing condition. But states are well situated to manage these issues," he said.

Romney has said in recent interviews that coverage for individuals with pre-existing conditions would be part of his plans.

"My plan is to help bring down the cost of this extraordinary health care inflation, and so instead of putting in place what's affectionately known as Obamacare, I would repeal that and replace that with measures that are designed to help bring down the cost of health insurance and make sure at the same time people have access to health care, preexisting conditions are able to be covered," he said on "Live with Kelly and Michael" in September.

And in an interview for "Meet the Press," Romney said "I'm not getting rid of all of healthcare reform," specifically naming pre-existing conditions, coverage for "family up to whatever age they might like," and reform the law which lets companies buy insurance for their employees pre-tax, a benefit not granted to people shopping individually.

Romney also said an individual mandate that many or all people obtain health coverage is not necessary to implement coverage of pre-existing conditions and extend coverage of young adults under their families' plans.

Some argue that the mandate - a portion of Obama's law which the Supreme Court upheld this summer - is necessary to prevent individuals from freeloading and to prevent the system from being overloaded with more expensive cases while healthier individuals remain uninsured.

"You don't have to have the government mandate that for that to occur," Romney said at the debate.
So Romney's plan is to let the states do whatever they want and when he's talking about those with pre-existing conditions he's talking about those who currently have insurance not those who can't get it.Obama really fumbled the ball, as well as the moderator, for not clearly defining these major differences.

 
Just so everyone is on the same page, corporations can deduct the business expenses of moving jobs/ operations from onshore to offshore. They can also deduct those expenses if they move from one domestic location to another. So there's no special deduction for moving jobs overseas, but businesses can get a tax "break" for doing so. Of course taxes are generally inconsequential in those decisions, which I'm sure both candidates know.
Right. The Obama position is to not allow businesses to deduct those expenses if the jobs/operations are moving overseas, to leave the deduction intact when moving within the USA.
I don't see how it can be justified to do one but not both...I mean, why is moving from Wisconsin to Tennessee covered, but moving from Wisconsin to India not? They both hurt Wisconsin just as much...
Tariffs aren't just either. But they exist for the same principle as penalizing the moving of a job out of the country would. If you don't want to experience the tariff, then make the product here instead of elsewhere. And If you don't want to lose the deduction, then move the job to somewhere else in the USA... or just don't move the job at all and save on all of the expenses.
 
Just so everyone is on the same page, corporations can deduct the business expenses of moving jobs/ operations from onshore to offshore. They can also deduct those expenses if they move from one domestic location to another. So there's no special deduction for moving jobs overseas, but businesses can get a tax "break" for doing so. Of course taxes are generally inconsequential in those decisions, which I'm sure both candidates know.
Right. The Obama position is to not allow businesses to deduct those expenses if the jobs/operations are moving overseas, to leave the deduction intact when moving within the USA.
I don't see how it can be justified to do one but not both...I mean, why is moving from Wisconsin to Tennessee covered, but moving from Wisconsin to India not? They both hurt Wisconsin just as much...
Obama's job is to protect America against foreign countries, not so much to protect Wisconsin against Tennessee.
 
Just so everyone is on the same page, corporations can deduct the business expenses of moving jobs/ operations from onshore to offshore. They can also deduct those expenses if they move from one domestic location to another. So there's no special deduction for moving jobs overseas, but businesses can get a tax "break" for doing so. Of course taxes are generally inconsequential in those decisions, which I'm sure both candidates know.
No way?!?! Someone tell Romney, quick. I bet he's been leaving millions on the table not knowing about this.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Romney adviser fields questions on pre-existing conditions

Posted by

CNN's Gregory Wallace

(CNN) – Eric Fehrnstrom, a top aide to Mitt Romney, suggested in a Thursday interview with CNN that the GOP presidential candidate's health plan may achieve his goal of covering individuals with pre-existing conditions through "state initiatives and money."

Asked at Wednesday's debate what he would put in place of President Barack Obama's health care law, Romney offered two particular provisions: "Number one, pre-existing conditions are covered under my plan. Number two, young people are able to stay on their family plan."

– Follow the Ticker on Twitter: @PoliticalTicker

– Check out the CNN Electoral Map and Calculator and game out your own strategy for November.

In the interview on CNN's "The Situation Room," Fehrnstrom said "the governor is a federalist when it comes to health care," and supports giving state governments flexibility to craft their own state laws.

When pressed whether Romney would require states to include a pre-existing conditions stipulation in their legislation, Fehrnstrom answered: "We will give the state initiatives and money so that they can manage these decisions on their own. But, of course, we'd like them to see them continue that pre-existing band for those who have continuous coverage."

As governor of Massachusetts, Romney signed a health reform law which included protections against people with pre-existing conditions being denied health coverage or being charged higher prices.

While some, including the president, have characterized the Romney and Obama models as similar, Romney has said his law was appropriate for his state but would not be appropriate nationally.

"The plan we put in place here in Massachusetts works for the people of Massachusetts," Fehrnstrom said, echoing an argument Romney makes on the campaign trail. "The governor will repeal Obamacare and he will return to the states the power to control their own health care futures."

Fehrnstrom explained that Romney supports giving states power to determine what plan best suits their local needs, but also supports a guarantee of coverage for those who, absent legislation, might be denied insurance or reach coverage limits, an aim of Obama's legislation.

"The governor believes that those who have continuous coverage should not be dropped, if they change plans and have a pre-existing condition. But states are well situated to manage these issues," he said.

Romney has said in recent interviews that coverage for individuals with pre-existing conditions would be part of his plans.

"My plan is to help bring down the cost of this extraordinary health care inflation, and so instead of putting in place what's affectionately known as Obamacare, I would repeal that and replace that with measures that are designed to help bring down the cost of health insurance and make sure at the same time people have access to health care, preexisting conditions are able to be covered," he said on "Live with Kelly and Michael" in September.

And in an interview for "Meet the Press," Romney said "I'm not getting rid of all of healthcare reform," specifically naming pre-existing conditions, coverage for "family up to whatever age they might like," and reform the law which lets companies buy insurance for their employees pre-tax, a benefit not granted to people shopping individually.

Romney also said an individual mandate that many or all people obtain health coverage is not necessary to implement coverage of pre-existing conditions and extend coverage of young adults under their families' plans.

Some argue that the mandate - a portion of Obama's law which the Supreme Court upheld this summer - is necessary to prevent individuals from freeloading and to prevent the system from being overloaded with more expensive cases while healthier individuals remain uninsured.

"You don't have to have the government mandate that for that to occur," Romney said at the debate.
So Romney's plan is to let the states do whatever they want and when he's talking about those with pre-existing conditions he's talking about those who currently have insurance not those who can't get it.Obama really fumbled the ball, as well as the moderator, for not clearly defining these major differences.
Obama pointed this out during the debate.
 
Perhaps the m.o. here is that no one likes an odds-on favorite. Obama was turning into that going into this debate, and had he won, he would've been the overwhelming favorite.Perhaps by sandbagging this debate, he can come out guns blazing after Romney regains some of his shine, and really knock him down.The people like their political narratives to have plot twists, and perhaps team-Obama is just delivering the drama the people want. Perhaps he wants people to think the outcome is in doubt and they need to go to the polls to ensure it. Perhaps he wants the narrative to be "Romneys surprise comeback" for a week or two, only to be battered and bashed after 2 weeks to ride the victory to the finish line and the election.Or perhaps I'm just imagining rationale that never existed in order to make up for a poor performance by Obama and poor strategy by his team...nah.
This is awesome. Too bad it's too long for a sig.
It seemed obvious to me at least, that my post was a joke.
All of them are, particularly when you think you're being serious.
 
Romney adviser fields questions on pre-existing conditions

Posted by

CNN's Gregory Wallace

(CNN) – Eric Fehrnstrom, a top aide to Mitt Romney, suggested in a Thursday interview with CNN that the GOP presidential candidate's health plan may achieve his goal of covering individuals with pre-existing conditions through "state initiatives and money."

Asked at Wednesday's debate what he would put in place of President Barack Obama's health care law, Romney offered two particular provisions: "Number one, pre-existing conditions are covered under my plan. Number two, young people are able to stay on their family plan."

– Follow the Ticker on Twitter: @PoliticalTicker

– Check out the CNN Electoral Map and Calculator and game out your own strategy for November.

In the interview on CNN's "The Situation Room," Fehrnstrom said "the governor is a federalist when it comes to health care," and supports giving state governments flexibility to craft their own state laws.

When pressed whether Romney would require states to include a pre-existing conditions stipulation in their legislation, Fehrnstrom answered: "We will give the state initiatives and money so that they can manage these decisions on their own. But, of course, we'd like them to see them continue that pre-existing band for those who have continuous coverage."

As governor of Massachusetts, Romney signed a health reform law which included protections against people with pre-existing conditions being denied health coverage or being charged higher prices.

While some, including the president, have characterized the Romney and Obama models as similar, Romney has said his law was appropriate for his state but would not be appropriate nationally.

"The plan we put in place here in Massachusetts works for the people of Massachusetts," Fehrnstrom said, echoing an argument Romney makes on the campaign trail. "The governor will repeal Obamacare and he will return to the states the power to control their own health care futures."

Fehrnstrom explained that Romney supports giving states power to determine what plan best suits their local needs, but also supports a guarantee of coverage for those who, absent legislation, might be denied insurance or reach coverage limits, an aim of Obama's legislation.

"The governor believes that those who have continuous coverage should not be dropped, if they change plans and have a pre-existing condition. But states are well situated to manage these issues," he said.

Romney has said in recent interviews that coverage for individuals with pre-existing conditions would be part of his plans.

"My plan is to help bring down the cost of this extraordinary health care inflation, and so instead of putting in place what's affectionately known as Obamacare, I would repeal that and replace that with measures that are designed to help bring down the cost of health insurance and make sure at the same time people have access to health care, preexisting conditions are able to be covered," he said on "Live with Kelly and Michael" in September.

And in an interview for "Meet the Press," Romney said "I'm not getting rid of all of healthcare reform," specifically naming pre-existing conditions, coverage for "family up to whatever age they might like," and reform the law which lets companies buy insurance for their employees pre-tax, a benefit not granted to people shopping individually.

Romney also said an individual mandate that many or all people obtain health coverage is not necessary to implement coverage of pre-existing conditions and extend coverage of young adults under their families' plans.

Some argue that the mandate - a portion of Obama's law which the Supreme Court upheld this summer - is necessary to prevent individuals from freeloading and to prevent the system from being overloaded with more expensive cases while healthier individuals remain uninsured.

"You don't have to have the government mandate that for that to occur," Romney said at the debate.
So Romney's plan is to let the states do whatever they want and when he's talking about those with pre-existing conditions he's talking about those who currently have insurance not those who can't get it.Obama really fumbled the ball, as well as the moderator, for not clearly defining these major differences.
Obama pointed this out during the debate.
Found it:Obama: "Well, actually Governor, that isn't what your plan does. What your plan does is to duplicate what's already the law, which says if you are out of health insurance for three months, then you can end up getting continuous coverage and an insurance company can't deny you if you've -- if it's been under 90 days.

But that's already the law and that doesn't help the millions of people out there with preexisting conditions. There's a reason why Governor Romney set up the plan that he did in Massachusetts. It wasn't a government takeover of health care. It was the largest expansion of private insurance. But what it does say is that "insurers, you've got to take everybody."

Too much of an explanation here not enough accusation. Obama should have set up the common scenario with those with preexisting conditions, that being past 90 days, and asked Romney if his plan would cover them.

 
Have there been any stories from people who worked with him or for him that are negative? Seems like across the board he has been well liked by anyone that knows him.
linkWhat Women Should Know About Our Old Boss, Mitt Romney.

Frankly, we were completely, totally, absolutely fed up. That’s what we told a reporter from the Milwaukee Sentinel today who asked us why a group of female executives are traveling the country telling women about our former boss Mitt Romney. We were frustrated that so many women were getting a picture of Mitt from the media and negative ads that just doesn't match up with the man we all know and worked with in Salt Lake and Massachusetts. We’re smart women; we know it’s a big country; and we know we’re only a few voices. But we also know we have insights and stories that women voters want to hear before they make up their minds – so we decided to hit the road and tell as many women as we can what Mitt Romney is really like from the perspective of the women who worked with him every day.

Amazingly, most women don’t know that Mitt had women at his side helping him turn around the Olympics in Salt Lake and fix the economy in Massachusetts. It doesn’t surprise me because I know how Mitt puts together his team. He hires the strongest talent he can find, so naturally he ends up with a lot of women. Mitt says he hires people who will “go through walls” to get the job done; the women who have worked with him over the years definitely fit that description. I worked with him for nine years and can tell you that my colleagues in Salt Lake and Massachusetts are as talented and incredible as any group of women in America.

Mitt was recognized every year he was Governor for having more women in Cabinet and senior positions than any other Governor in the country. Women made up half Mitt’s cabinet. Women were at the heart of the economic team he put together to create jobs, cut red-tape and streamline regulations and permitting. He personally chose and campaigned for his Lt. Governor – Kerry Healey – a hard-working, gracious, accomplished woman. His Chief of Staff, Beth Myers, was at the table with him giving advice and counsel throughout his administration – and she has continued to do that in the years since, as campaign manager for his 2008 campaign and as senior strategist in the campaign this time.

I called a number of my old colleagues from the Olympics and Massachusetts to see if they would be willing to spend the next few weeks on the road, telling the stories of their time working with Mitt. Everyone said yes. No matter what our political affiliation - Republican, Democrat, or Independent – we’ve all seen first-hand how Mitt leads, we've seen how he makes decisions, we've seen how he can fix huge problems, we’ve seen how he treats women with respect and as true equal colleagues in the workplace, and we've seen how he cares. We've had times when Mitt reached out and helped us through a tough time personally, when he challenged us to grow professionally, when he believed in us and backed us. We've laughed with him - a lot, debated and argued, watched his face light up when Ann Romney walks in a room. He's been there for our weddings and he's been there to comfort us and grieve with us in times of personal loss. We've watched him "go through walls" to do what he's promised. Mitt has to fix anything that's broken, and he just won't stop until the job is done.

So over a dozen of us are on the road and we'll all be blogging as we go, sharing our stories of Mitt Romney and the stories of the women we meet along the way. You know, women who have taken the hardest hit from the Obama economy: more women now live poverty than then they have in 17 years. In my mind, the real War on Women has been economic and I know Mitt Romney can turn this economy around. I know he cares, but more important to me – Mitt knows what to do. And, honestly, I’m more concerned about action than talk right now.

I know another thing about Mitt Romney having worked with him so long. I know when he gets to Washington, he’ll have women on his team helping him “go through walls” to fix America’s economy. He won’t stop until he’s got the job done and America is working. That’s just who he is.

We hope you’ll take the time to read our stories over the next few weeks before you vote. You can only really tell who a person is by their actions; not their words. Mitt’s actions tell you who he is and what he will do as President. We hope by telling you about our time working with him, you will see why we know Mitt is the President we need now - and that he can restore America.
 
Mitt is a stud, you don't accomplish what he's accomplished professionally by acting like Herman Cain.

Perhaps it takes people with financial services background to understand how accomplished he is?

His professional background is certainly stronger than "community organizer."

Shocking he doesn't get more props for his professional experience from the media....oh wai, I forgot. The Left doesn't like successful people, they are all greedy and only looking out form themselves. :heartless:

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Have there been any stories from people who worked with him or for him that are negative? Seems like across the board he has been well liked by anyone that knows him.
linkWhat Women Should Know About Our Old Boss, Mitt Romney.

Frankly, we were completely, totally, absolutely fed up. That’s what we told a reporter from the Milwaukee Sentinel today who asked us why a group of female executives are traveling the country telling women about our former boss Mitt Romney. We were frustrated that so many women were getting a picture of Mitt from the media and negative ads that just doesn't match up with the man we all know and worked with in Salt Lake and Massachusetts. We’re smart women; we know it’s a big country; and we know we’re only a few voices. But we also know we have insights and stories that women voters want to hear before they make up their minds – so we decided to hit the road and tell as many women as we can what Mitt Romney is really like from the perspective of the women who worked with him every day.

Amazingly, most women don’t know that Mitt had women at his side helping him turn around the Olympics in Salt Lake and fix the economy in Massachusetts. It doesn’t surprise me because I know how Mitt puts together his team. He hires the strongest talent he can find, so naturally he ends up with a lot of women. Mitt says he hires people who will “go through walls” to get the job done; the women who have worked with him over the years definitely fit that description. I worked with him for nine years and can tell you that my colleagues in Salt Lake and Massachusetts are as talented and incredible as any group of women in America.

Mitt was recognized every year he was Governor for having more women in Cabinet and senior positions than any other Governor in the country. Women made up half Mitt’s cabinet. Women were at the heart of the economic team he put together to create jobs, cut red-tape and streamline regulations and permitting. He personally chose and campaigned for his Lt. Governor – Kerry Healey – a hard-working, gracious, accomplished woman. His Chief of Staff, Beth Myers, was at the table with him giving advice and counsel throughout his administration – and she has continued to do that in the years since, as campaign manager for his 2008 campaign and as senior strategist in the campaign this time.

I called a number of my old colleagues from the Olympics and Massachusetts to see if they would be willing to spend the next few weeks on the road, telling the stories of their time working with Mitt. Everyone said yes. No matter what our political affiliation - Republican, Democrat, or Independent – we’ve all seen first-hand how Mitt leads, we've seen how he makes decisions, we've seen how he can fix huge problems, we’ve seen how he treats women with respect and as true equal colleagues in the workplace, and we've seen how he cares. We've had times when Mitt reached out and helped us through a tough time personally, when he challenged us to grow professionally, when he believed in us and backed us. We've laughed with him - a lot, debated and argued, watched his face light up when Ann Romney walks in a room. He's been there for our weddings and he's been there to comfort us and grieve with us in times of personal loss. We've watched him "go through walls" to do what he's promised. Mitt has to fix anything that's broken, and he just won't stop until the job is done.

So over a dozen of us are on the road and we'll all be blogging as we go, sharing our stories of Mitt Romney and the stories of the women we meet along the way. You know, women who have taken the hardest hit from the Obama economy: more women now live poverty than then they have in 17 years. In my mind, the real War on Women has been economic and I know Mitt Romney can turn this economy around. I know he cares, but more important to me – Mitt knows what to do. And, honestly, I’m more concerned about action than talk right now.

I know another thing about Mitt Romney having worked with him so long. I know when he gets to Washington, he’ll have women on his team helping him “go through walls” to fix America’s economy. He won’t stop until he’s got the job done and America is working. That’s just who he is.

We hope you’ll take the time to read our stories over the next few weeks before you vote. You can only really tell who a person is by their actions; not their words. Mitt’s actions tell you who he is and what he will do as President. We hope by telling you about our time working with him, you will see why we know Mitt is the President we need now - and that he can restore America.
Pretty sure it's Mitt's policies that women have a problem with, not his words or actions. Certainly all the ones I know that aren't voting for him.
 
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Have there been any stories from people who worked with him or for him that are negative? Seems like across the board he has been well liked by anyone that knows him.
linkWhat Women Should Know About Our Old Boss, Mitt Romney.

Frankly, we were completely, totally, absolutely fed up. That’s what we told a reporter from the Milwaukee Sentinel today who asked us why a group of female executives are traveling the country telling women about our former boss Mitt Romney. We were frustrated that so many women were getting a picture of Mitt from the media and negative ads that just doesn't match up with the man we all know and worked with in Salt Lake and Massachusetts. We’re smart women; we know it’s a big country; and we know we’re only a few voices. But we also know we have insights and stories that women voters want to hear before they make up their minds – so we decided to hit the road and tell as many women as we can what Mitt Romney is really like from the perspective of the women who worked with him every day.

Amazingly, most women don’t know that Mitt had women at his side helping him turn around the Olympics in Salt Lake and fix the economy in Massachusetts. It doesn’t surprise me because I know how Mitt puts together his team. He hires the strongest talent he can find, so naturally he ends up with a lot of women. Mitt says he hires people who will “go through walls” to get the job done; the women who have worked with him over the years definitely fit that description. I worked with him for nine years and can tell you that my colleagues in Salt Lake and Massachusetts are as talented and incredible as any group of women in America.

Mitt was recognized every year he was Governor for having more women in Cabinet and senior positions than any other Governor in the country. Women made up half Mitt’s cabinet. Women were at the heart of the economic team he put together to create jobs, cut red-tape and streamline regulations and permitting. He personally chose and campaigned for his Lt. Governor – Kerry Healey – a hard-working, gracious, accomplished woman. His Chief of Staff, Beth Myers, was at the table with him giving advice and counsel throughout his administration – and she has continued to do that in the years since, as campaign manager for his 2008 campaign and as senior strategist in the campaign this time.

I called a number of my old colleagues from the Olympics and Massachusetts to see if they would be willing to spend the next few weeks on the road, telling the stories of their time working with Mitt. Everyone said yes. No matter what our political affiliation - Republican, Democrat, or Independent – we’ve all seen first-hand how Mitt leads, we've seen how he makes decisions, we've seen how he can fix huge problems, we’ve seen how he treats women with respect and as true equal colleagues in the workplace, and we've seen how he cares. We've had times when Mitt reached out and helped us through a tough time personally, when he challenged us to grow professionally, when he believed in us and backed us. We've laughed with him - a lot, debated and argued, watched his face light up when Ann Romney walks in a room. He's been there for our weddings and he's been there to comfort us and grieve with us in times of personal loss. We've watched him "go through walls" to do what he's promised. Mitt has to fix anything that's broken, and he just won't stop until the job is done.

So over a dozen of us are on the road and we'll all be blogging as we go, sharing our stories of Mitt Romney and the stories of the women we meet along the way. You know, women who have taken the hardest hit from the Obama economy: more women now live poverty than then they have in 17 years. In my mind, the real War on Women has been economic and I know Mitt Romney can turn this economy around. I know he cares, but more important to me – Mitt knows what to do. And, honestly, I’m more concerned about action than talk right now.

I know another thing about Mitt Romney having worked with him so long. I know when he gets to Washington, he’ll have women on his team helping him “go through walls” to fix America’s economy. He won’t stop until he’s got the job done and America is working. That’s just who he is.

We hope you’ll take the time to read our stories over the next few weeks before you vote. You can only really tell who a person is by their actions; not their words. Mitt’s actions tell you who he is and what he will do as President. We hope by telling you about our time working with him, you will see why we know Mitt is the President we need now - and that he can restore America.
Pretty sure it's Mitt's policies that women have a problem with, not his words or actions. Certainly all the ones I know that aren't voting for him.
Perfect example of provincialism.

 
Have there been any stories from people who worked with him or for him that are negative? Seems like across the board he has been well liked by anyone that knows him.
linkWhat Women Should Know About Our Old Boss, Mitt Romney.

Frankly, we were completely, totally, absolutely fed up. That’s what we told a reporter from the Milwaukee Sentinel today who asked us why a group of female executives are traveling the country telling women about our former boss Mitt Romney. We were frustrated that so many women were getting a picture of Mitt from the media and negative ads that just doesn't match up with the man we all know and worked with in Salt Lake and Massachusetts. We’re smart women; we know it’s a big country; and we know we’re only a few voices. But we also know we have insights and stories that women voters want to hear before they make up their minds – so we decided to hit the road and tell as many women as we can what Mitt Romney is really like from the perspective of the women who worked with him every day.

Amazingly, most women don’t know that Mitt had women at his side helping him turn around the Olympics in Salt Lake and fix the economy in Massachusetts. It doesn’t surprise me because I know how Mitt puts together his team. He hires the strongest talent he can find, so naturally he ends up with a lot of women. Mitt says he hires people who will “go through walls” to get the job done; the women who have worked with him over the years definitely fit that description. I worked with him for nine years and can tell you that my colleagues in Salt Lake and Massachusetts are as talented and incredible as any group of women in America.

Mitt was recognized every year he was Governor for having more women in Cabinet and senior positions than any other Governor in the country. Women made up half Mitt’s cabinet. Women were at the heart of the economic team he put together to create jobs, cut red-tape and streamline regulations and permitting. He personally chose and campaigned for his Lt. Governor – Kerry Healey – a hard-working, gracious, accomplished woman. His Chief of Staff, Beth Myers, was at the table with him giving advice and counsel throughout his administration – and she has continued to do that in the years since, as campaign manager for his 2008 campaign and as senior strategist in the campaign this time.

I called a number of my old colleagues from the Olympics and Massachusetts to see if they would be willing to spend the next few weeks on the road, telling the stories of their time working with Mitt. Everyone said yes. No matter what our political affiliation - Republican, Democrat, or Independent – we’ve all seen first-hand how Mitt leads, we've seen how he makes decisions, we've seen how he can fix huge problems, we’ve seen how he treats women with respect and as true equal colleagues in the workplace, and we've seen how he cares. We've had times when Mitt reached out and helped us through a tough time personally, when he challenged us to grow professionally, when he believed in us and backed us. We've laughed with him - a lot, debated and argued, watched his face light up when Ann Romney walks in a room. He's been there for our weddings and he's been there to comfort us and grieve with us in times of personal loss. We've watched him "go through walls" to do what he's promised. Mitt has to fix anything that's broken, and he just won't stop until the job is done.

So over a dozen of us are on the road and we'll all be blogging as we go, sharing our stories of Mitt Romney and the stories of the women we meet along the way. You know, women who have taken the hardest hit from the Obama economy: more women now live poverty than then they have in 17 years. In my mind, the real War on Women has been economic and I know Mitt Romney can turn this economy around. I know he cares, but more important to me – Mitt knows what to do. And, honestly, I’m more concerned about action than talk right now.

I know another thing about Mitt Romney having worked with him so long. I know when he gets to Washington, he’ll have women on his team helping him “go through walls” to fix America’s economy. He won’t stop until he’s got the job done and America is working. That’s just who he is.

We hope you’ll take the time to read our stories over the next few weeks before you vote. You can only really tell who a person is by their actions; not their words. Mitt’s actions tell you who he is and what he will do as President. We hope by telling you about our time working with him, you will see why we know Mitt is the President we need now - and that he can restore America.
Pretty sure it's Mitt's policies that women have a problem with, not his words or actions. Certainly all the ones I know that aren't voting for him.
Perfect example of provincialism.
Take a look at the national numbers. If you want to believe that the huge disparity in support among women has to do with the media's portrayal of Romney I don't know what to tell you. Oddly enough, women generally care about women's health and rights issues. Certainly no all, but the numbers are clear. My point isn't that my female friends speak for all women, more that the idea that women somehow just aren't getting the real Romney because of the media is silly. It's his policies the majority are rejecting.
 
'LHUCKS said:
Mitt is a stud, you don't accomplish what he's accomplished professionally by acting like Herman Cain. Perhaps it takes people with financial services background to understand how accomplished he is? His professional background is certainly stronger than "community organizer."Shocking he doesn't get more props for his professional experience from the media....oh wai, I forgot. The Left doesn't like successful people, they are all greedy and only looking out form themselves. :heartless:
Are you doing the thing you did in the wagering thread?
 
I've still watched only the first 20 minutes or so of the debate. I just came across Steve Landsburg's comments on it, which help explain why so many people think Romney won. I thought it was fairly even in the part I saw, but evidently Romney really picked up steam as the debate went on.

Okay, I watched the debate —- and jotted down responses as I watched. These jottings were made in real time while trying to listen to the candidates, and are, I’m sure, in many cases, not as well thought out as they ought to be. But here they are, unedited:

1) Romney off to pathetic start with tearjerker stories.

2) What is this fetish with small business? Why are small businesses more important than big businesses? Aren’t they mostly small because mostly they’re not very good?

3) Obama, asked to respond to “trickle down” issue, goes off talking about education. Can you say “non sequitur”, boys and girls?

4) Obama wants different tax rates for different industries (lower for manufacturing). What could possibly qualify as more “top down” economics than politicians in Washington deciding which industries to favor?

5) Romney totally buys into the class warfare with “high income people are doing fine”, we have to help the middleclass, etc etc. This is vomitworthy. With Romney’s peddling Obama-style class warfare, it’s hard to see why anyone would prefer him.

6) Romney says “all of the increase in energy has been on private land, not govt land”. Very ignorant. If there were more drilling on govt land, there’d be less on private land (assuming there’s any truth at all to Hotelling style models and how can there not be?)

7) Haven’t looked at numbers, but I bet Obama is exactly right that Romney can’t possibly cut taxes by 5 trillion and make it revenue neutral by closing deductions taken by the rich.

8) There goes Romney again with “I will not reduce the share paid by high income individuals”. In other words, we have no diversity of opinion on whether the tax code is too progressive as it is.

9) Romney off again on “we need to lower rates because of *small businesses*”. This fetish with small business is driving me nuts.

10) Wait a minute! Now Romney points to the top 3% of small businesses as the major job creators — but still ignores the big businesses?

11) Romney’s basic view on taxes — cut rates but also cut deductions — is of course exactly right, and nearly all economists agree on this. But those same economists will also say that rates on capital income should be much much lower than rates on wage income — and Romney is either too ignorant or too gutless to point this out.

12) Romney to cut PBS subsidies. Note that the Republicans have controlled Congress for much of the past 20 years and haven’t managed to do this.

13) Both of them seem extremely articulate if you don’t listen too closely to the content.

14) (at the 9:30 mark) Obama clearly winning, I think.

15) Obama semi-endorses Bowles/Simpson, which is much better than where he might have gone.

16) Obama attacks Romney on not agreeing to $1 of tax increase for $10 in spending cuts. Romney should respond: “That was in response to a question that didnt specify the spending cuts. Of course I can’t agree till you tell me what you’re cutting”.

17) Romney is right that Obama didnt run with Bowles/Simpson when he could have/should have, and that Obama is dissembling about this.

18) Romey appears to be hogging time. I don’t think is likely to play well.

19) obama right that we shouldnt subsidize oil, then undermines himself by giving a ridiculous reason (“they’re already making lots of money”). What matters is not what the oil companies are making, it’s the incentives at the margin.

20) Romney gets in superb zinger — Obama complains about subsidies to oil but subsidizes green energy at something like 10 times as much.

21) Romney should follow up on this zinger by explaining that these subsidies create disincentives for people to find creative, alternative, *unsubsidized* energy sources. It’s very important to make this point, because otherwise naive people think “ooh, green energy, good thing”.

22) Romney making the case for federalism in poverty programs —- Obama should point out that this is the same Romney who *complained* when Obama administration proposed giving states more flexibility on welfare.

23) Obama says his grandma could live independently only because of social security — and implies the same is true for elderly people generally. As if there was no alternative investment for the social security taxes people pay their whole lives? It’s impossible for us to save unless the govt does it for us???!?

24) Obama probably right about adverse selection issues with Ryan’s Medicare plan, but I haven’t looked at this or thought hard about it.

25) Obama: “The primary beneficiaries of Romney health policies are insurance companies”. This can’t be true. Competition (even in a highly regulated industry like insurance) limits profits. Short-term higher profits must mean long-term lower premiums.

26) Romney good on importance of competition in Medicare provision.

27) Obama: With Romney health care “the money has to come from somewhere”. Romney already explained that savings come from greater efficiency that comes from competition. Hope he reiterates this and points out that Obama seems not to have heard it the first time.

28) Romney does come back with an excellent comeback on this! (If govt can do it cheaper, people will choose that! Why not give them a choice?). This was a good good moment for him.

29) Romney: “you can’t have people starting up banks in their garages”. Why the hell not?

30) Romney good on deficiencies of Dodd Frank, but misses the bigger point that D/F does nothing to attack the problems that caused the current crisis.

31) Romney again with “I met a woman in NH; I met a couple in Appleton, WI”. For Christ’s sake, just tell us your policies and your rationale.

32) Romney: “How did he come into office with 23 million unemployed, unemployment rising, and put all his passion into Obamacare?”. Fair or not (I think it’s not) this is a big winner for Romney; he should have found a way to get it into the first half hour.

33) 10pm: I think I give the second half hour to Romney, but not sure.

34) Romney very good on differences between romneycare and obamacare.

35) Obama defending a board of experts to make health care decisions — romney should come back with “I thought you were *against* top-down economics”.

36) Generally speaking, this is substantially less frivolous than the average political debate. Probably Lehrer gets a lot of credit for that, but so, I think, do the candidates.

37) Obama dead right that Romney’s pro-competition proposals dont help if you’ve got a pre-existing condition. Romney claims he has that covered elsewhere in his plan; dunno if that’s true.

38) Romney attacking that unelected board pretty effectively, and absolutely right on this issue.

39) Romney showing some real passion on the power of competition in health care (and by implication more generally). Looking real good on this.

40) I repeat: They’re both on their game. Ignoring the content of what they’re saying, they both sound great.

41) Given the expectations game, this is probably real good for Romney.

42) Sounds like we get something like Bowles/Simpson with either guy.

43) Glad to hear a call-out to the 10th amendment!! Kudos to Romney.

44) Obama: The federal govt has the capacity to expand opportunity, etc etc. Of course this is true in some cases, but the view that this is very generally the case is a genuine difference. Good to see it aired.

45) Obama says we need more teachers; Romney says we need great teachers. O is wrong; R is right. Great to see this key difference aired.

46) Romney doing very well with “role of govt” question. Must have practiced for this.

47) Yes! Romney said “trickle-down government”!!! That’s exactly the phrase he should keep pushing. I’ve been saying this for weeks. Has he said this before and I missed it?

48) Romney doing great I think on whole cluster of issues right now, including “letting lower income kids go to school of their choice”

49) Romney sounded very very positive on education, etc, then Obama went for negative with “his budget cuts taxes and therefore must cut education….”. Makes Romney look big and Obama look small.

50) Obama repeats the canard that if we give more grants to college students, more will be able to go to college. This is completely ridiculous, and Romney should say so.

51) Romney getting better and better as we come up on the close. Gets in zinger about green energy companies owned by Obama contributors. Showing real passion on educational choice.

52) Going into closing statements, Romney clearly won the last half hour.

53) Closing statements: My attention wandered. Missed most of the content. But thought Obama looked a little tired and out of it; Romney looked strong.
 
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I've still watched only the first 20 minutes or so of the debate. I just came across Steve Landsburg's comments on it, which help explain why so many people think Romney won. I thought it was fairly even in the part I saw, but evidently Romney really picked up steam as the debate went on.
I think most people had it the other way. Obama was really bad to start but gradually did better, Romney pretty consistently good throughout. Romney really only got hit once when Obama tried to pin him down on not having a plan to deal with pre-existing conditions and Romney more or conceded the point saying he'd bring in people from both sides to figure it out.
 
'DiStefano said:
Have there been any stories from people who worked with him or for him that are negative? Seems like across the board he has been well liked by anyone that knows him.
linkWhat Women Should Know About Our Old Boss, Mitt Romney.

Frankly, we were completely, totally, absolutely fed up. That’s what we told a reporter from the Milwaukee Sentinel today who asked us why a group of female executives are traveling the country telling women about our former boss Mitt Romney. We were frustrated that so many women were getting a picture of Mitt from the media and negative ads that just doesn't match up with the man we all know and worked with in Salt Lake and Massachusetts. We’re smart women; we know it’s a big country; and we know we’re only a few voices. But we also know we have insights and stories that women voters want to hear before they make up their minds – so we decided to hit the road and tell as many women as we can what Mitt Romney is really like from the perspective of the women who worked with him every day.

Amazingly, most women don’t know that Mitt had women at his side helping him turn around the Olympics in Salt Lake and fix the economy in Massachusetts. It doesn’t surprise me because I know how Mitt puts together his team. He hires the strongest talent he can find, so naturally he ends up with a lot of women. Mitt says he hires people who will “go through walls” to get the job done; the women who have worked with him over the years definitely fit that description. I worked with him for nine years and can tell you that my colleagues in Salt Lake and Massachusetts are as talented and incredible as any group of women in America.

Mitt was recognized every year he was Governor for having more women in Cabinet and senior positions than any other Governor in the country. Women made up half Mitt’s cabinet. Women were at the heart of the economic team he put together to create jobs, cut red-tape and streamline regulations and permitting. He personally chose and campaigned for his Lt. Governor – Kerry Healey – a hard-working, gracious, accomplished woman. His Chief of Staff, Beth Myers, was at the table with him giving advice and counsel throughout his administration – and she has continued to do that in the years since, as campaign manager for his 2008 campaign and as senior strategist in the campaign this time.

I called a number of my old colleagues from the Olympics and Massachusetts to see if they would be willing to spend the next few weeks on the road, telling the stories of their time working with Mitt. Everyone said yes. No matter what our political affiliation - Republican, Democrat, or Independent – we’ve all seen first-hand how Mitt leads, we've seen how he makes decisions, we've seen how he can fix huge problems, we’ve seen how he treats women with respect and as true equal colleagues in the workplace, and we've seen how he cares. We've had times when Mitt reached out and helped us through a tough time personally, when he challenged us to grow professionally, when he believed in us and backed us. We've laughed with him - a lot, debated and argued, watched his face light up when Ann Romney walks in a room. He's been there for our weddings and he's been there to comfort us and grieve with us in times of personal loss. We've watched him "go through walls" to do what he's promised. Mitt has to fix anything that's broken, and he just won't stop until the job is done.

So over a dozen of us are on the road and we'll all be blogging as we go, sharing our stories of Mitt Romney and the stories of the women we meet along the way. You know, women who have taken the hardest hit from the Obama economy: more women now live poverty than then they have in 17 years. In my mind, the real War on Women has been economic and I know Mitt Romney can turn this economy around. I know he cares, but more important to me – Mitt knows what to do. And, honestly, I’m more concerned about action than talk right now.

I know another thing about Mitt Romney having worked with him so long. I know when he gets to Washington, he’ll have women on his team helping him “go through walls” to fix America’s economy. He won’t stop until he’s got the job done and America is working. That’s just who he is.

We hope you’ll take the time to read our stories over the next few weeks before you vote. You can only really tell who a person is by their actions; not their words. Mitt’s actions tell you who he is and what he will do as President. We hope by telling you about our time working with him, you will see why we know Mitt is the President we need now - and that he can restore America.
Pretty sure it's Mitt's policies that women have a problem with, not his words or actions. Certainly all the ones I know that aren't voting for him.
Perfect example of provincialism.
That's a voting base.
 
'LHUCKS said:
Mitt is a stud, you don't accomplish what he's accomplished professionally by acting like Herman Cain. Perhaps it takes people with financial services background to understand how accomplished he is? His professional background is certainly stronger than "community organizer."Shocking he doesn't get more props for his professional experience from the media....oh wai, I forgot. The Left doesn't like successful people, they are all greedy and only looking out form themselves. :heartless:
Lots of folks around here have given him props for being successful in the private sector. We just know that it's not really a good indicator for predicting public sector success. Fortunately for us, we have some results while he was in the public sector. Unfortunately for him, that evidence isn't very positive.
 
2) What is this fetish with small business? Why are small businesses more important than big businesses? Aren’t they mostly small because mostly they’re not very good?
Small Business is usually what fuels an economic recovery and is where most job growth occurs.
:goodposting: What a slap in the face to small businesses everywhere with that last statement.. Basically saying.. You are a small business because you suck.. :thumbdown:
 
'LHUCKS said:
The Left doesn't like successful people, they are all greedy and only looking out form themselves. :heartless:
Indeed, we can hardly contain our contempt and hatred for George Soros. :hophead:
 
2) What is this fetish with small business? Why are small businesses more important than big businesses? Aren’t they mostly small because mostly they’re not very good?
Small Business is usually what fuels an economic recovery and is where most job growth occurs.
:goodposting: What a slap in the face to small businesses everywhere with that last statement.. Basically saying.. You are a small business because you suck.. :thumbdown:
Not only that, but most "small" businesses are not small at all, according to SBA standards: "the business must have no more than 500 employees for most manufacturing and mining industries, and no more than $7 million in average annual receipts for most nonmanufacturing industries."500 employees and/or $7 million in average annual receipts? Seriously...a SMALL business is a mom and pop that might never employ 25 workers at any given time, where they would be partying in Aruba if they ever hit $1 million in revenues!

I've told anyone who will listen that we probably need a new category for businesses in our nation...I've dubbed it "nano-business." Because when all the politicians are trotting-out "Joe the Plumber" or waxing poetic about that small manufacturing shop in Nowhere, Indiana that they've visited, that's what they are talking about. 500 employees and/or $7 million in receipts? Dear Lord...how many "small businesses" in our nation have fewer than 25 employees and $1 million in sales? Let me give you a hint: a strong majority. Only our government setting policies and cutting tax breaks for "small businesses" aren't targeting those folks. They're targeting the small businesses that really aren't so small.

And on that same train of thought, we need a third term for economics in addition to "macro" and "micro." Yep, you guessed it: "nano." Because that also is what most people are talking about (and voting on) when it comes to anything associated with money. How it'll affect the bottom line for themselves, their family, their extended family, their little social groups or clans. Probably BARELY their cities and counties! And certainly not their State or nation. [/rant]

 
For those of you saying that Obama got hosed by the time on these debates or that Romney beat up on Lehrer with regards to I'll say what I'll say and that's, that. Obama ignored Lehrer a whole lot too and if you add up the time each candidate took. Obama actually talked more.
4 minutes more.
that's not more?
Well, its certainly longer. But given the disparity in rate of speech, I'm not sure that it translated to more words uttered.
 
2) What is this fetish with small business? Why are small businesses more important than big businesses? Aren’t they mostly small because mostly they’re not very good?
Small Business is usually what fuels an economic recovery and is where most job growth occurs.
:goodposting: What a slap in the face to small businesses everywhere with that last statement.. Basically saying.. You are a small business because you suck.. :thumbdown:
Not only that, but most "small" businesses are not small at all, according to SBA standards: "the business must have no more than 500 employees for most manufacturing and mining industries, and no more than $7 million in average annual receipts for most nonmanufacturing industries."500 employees and/or $7 million in average annual receipts? Seriously...a SMALL business is a mom and pop that might never employ 25 workers at any given time, where they would be partying in Aruba if they ever hit $1 million in revenues!

I've told anyone who will listen that we probably need a new category for businesses in our nation...I've dubbed it "nano-business." Because when all the politicians are trotting-out "Joe the Plumber" or waxing poetic about that small manufacturing shop in Nowhere, Indiana that they've visited, that's what they are talking about. 500 employees and/or $7 million in receipts? Dear Lord...how many "small businesses" in our nation have fewer than 25 employees and $1 million in sales? Let me give you a hint: a strong majority. Only our government setting policies and cutting tax breaks for "small businesses" aren't targeting those folks. They're targeting the small businesses that really aren't so small.

And on that same train of thought, we need a third term for economics in addition to "macro" and "micro." Yep, you guessed it: "nano." Because that also is what most people are talking about (and voting on) when it comes to anything associated with money. How it'll affect the bottom line for themselves, their family, their extended family, their little social groups or clans. Probably BARELY their cities and counties! And certainly not their State or nation. [/rant]
Here's a good paper on this topic.

The cliff notes:

Small businesses make up a very large percentage of total firms but relatively few jobs, 90% of all businesses have 20 or fewer employees but those account for just 20% of jobs and 15% of total sales and payroll.

The majority of small businesses are in a fairly narrow band of service related industries; restaurants, skilled labor, professional services (doctors, lawyers) small retail fronts, etc. These aren't what we typically think of as being the engine of economic innovation.

Small businesses create jobs, but they also destroy a lot of jobs. The failure rate for new businesses is high, so the net contribution of small business jobs is much different than what it looks like when you only consider gross adds.

 
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For those of you saying that Obama got hosed by the time on these debates or that Romney beat up on Lehrer with regards to I'll say what I'll say and that's, that. Obama ignored Lehrer a whole lot too and if you add up the time each candidate took. Obama actually talked more.
4 minutes more.
that's not more?
Well, its certainly longer. But given the disparity in rate of speech, I'm not sure that it translated to more words uttered.
Who's fault is that? Should they have let him just keep rambling and repeating answers to the wrong question until something made sense?
 
2) What is this fetish with small business? Why are small businesses more important than big businesses? Aren’t they mostly small because mostly they’re not very good?
Small Business is usually what fuels an economic recovery and is where most job growth occurs.
:goodposting: What a slap in the face to small businesses everywhere with that last statement.. Basically saying.. You are a small business because you suck.. :thumbdown:
Not only that, but most "small" businesses are not small at all, according to SBA standards: "the business must have no more than 500 employees for most manufacturing and mining industries, and no more than $7 million in average annual receipts for most nonmanufacturing industries."500 employees and/or $7 million in average annual receipts? Seriously...a SMALL business is a mom and pop that might never employ 25 workers at any given time, where they would be partying in Aruba if they ever hit $1 million in revenues!

I've told anyone who will listen that we probably need a new category for businesses in our nation...I've dubbed it "nano-business." Because when all the politicians are trotting-out "Joe the Plumber" or waxing poetic about that small manufacturing shop in Nowhere, Indiana that they've visited, that's what they are talking about. 500 employees and/or $7 million in receipts? Dear Lord...how many "small businesses" in our nation have fewer than 25 employees and $1 million in sales? Let me give you a hint: a strong majority. Only our government setting policies and cutting tax breaks for "small businesses" aren't targeting those folks. They're targeting the small businesses that really aren't so small.

And on that same train of thought, we need a third term for economics in addition to "macro" and "micro." Yep, you guessed it: "nano." Because that also is what most people are talking about (and voting on) when it comes to anything associated with money. How it'll affect the bottom line for themselves, their family, their extended family, their little social groups or clans. Probably BARELY their cities and counties! And certainly not their State or nation. [/rant]
Exactly. Most of actual small businesses (under 25 employees) aren't scalable and even if they are maybe they don't want to become a big company.
 
2) What is this fetish with small business? Why are small businesses more important than big businesses? Aren’t they mostly small because mostly they’re not very good?
Small Business is usually what fuels an economic recovery and is where most job growth occurs.
:goodposting: What a slap in the face to small businesses everywhere with that last statement.. Basically saying.. You are a small business because you suck.. :thumbdown:
Not only that, but most "small" businesses are not small at all, according to SBA standards: "the business must have no more than 500 employees for most manufacturing and mining industries, and no more than $7 million in average annual receipts for most nonmanufacturing industries."500 employees and/or $7 million in average annual receipts? Seriously...a SMALL business is a mom and pop that might never employ 25 workers at any given time, where they would be partying in Aruba if they ever hit $1 million in revenues!

I've told anyone who will listen that we probably need a new category for businesses in our nation...I've dubbed it "nano-business." Because when all the politicians are trotting-out "Joe the Plumber" or waxing poetic about that small manufacturing shop in Nowhere, Indiana that they've visited, that's what they are talking about. 500 employees and/or $7 million in receipts? Dear Lord...how many "small businesses" in our nation have fewer than 25 employees and $1 million in sales? Let me give you a hint: a strong majority. Only our government setting policies and cutting tax breaks for "small businesses" aren't targeting those folks. They're targeting the small businesses that really aren't so small.

And on that same train of thought, we need a third term for economics in addition to "macro" and "micro." Yep, you guessed it: "nano." Because that also is what most people are talking about (and voting on) when it comes to anything associated with money. How it'll affect the bottom line for themselves, their family, their extended family, their little social groups or clans. Probably BARELY their cities and counties! And certainly not their State or nation. [/rant]
Exactly. Most of actual small businesses (under 25 employees) aren't scalable and even if they are maybe they don't want to become a big company.
This was another finding of the paper I posted above. Most small businesses have no intentions of growing:
In this paper, we have shown that there is substantial skewness in the desires and expectations of

individuals who start small businesses. Specifically, the vast majority of small business owners

do not expect to grow, report not wanting to grow, never expect to innovate along observable

dimensions, and report not wanting to innovate along observable dimensions. We also show that

there is also substantial heterogeneity in the reported reasons for why individuals start their

business. In particular, only about one-third of new businesses (on the eve of their start up)

reported that they were starting their business because they have a product or service that they 42

want to bring to market. Instead, the most common response for why individuals were starting

their business was the existence of non pecuniary benefits. Individuals reported that they liked

being their own boss and like the flexibility that small business ownership provided
 
Would be great if we could get Gary Johnson in the next debate, so America could actually see some NEW ideas about how to fix all of the problems the Dems and Repubs have caused. :rolleyes:

 
Exactly. Most of actual small businesses (under 25 employees) aren't scalable and even if they are maybe they don't want to become a big company.
This was another finding of the paper I posted above. Most small businesses have no intentions of growing:
In this paper, we have shown that there is substantial skewness in the desires and expectations of

individuals who start small businesses. Specifically, the vast majority of small business owners

do not expect to grow, report not wanting to grow, never expect to innovate along observable

dimensions, and report not wanting to innovate along observable dimensions. We also show that

there is also substantial heterogeneity in the reported reasons for why individuals start their

business. In particular, only about one-third of new businesses (on the eve of their start up)

reported that they were starting their business because they have a product or service that they 42

want to bring to market. Instead, the most common response for why individuals were starting

their business was the existence of non pecuniary benefits. Individuals reported that they liked

being their own boss and like the flexibility that small business ownership provided
Along those lines, in my particular industry, most of my direct competitors have 1-3 employees (actually, 0-1 "employees," since most are LLCs, and owners of LLCs cannot be both owners/shareholders and employees in their own company). Most generate less than $100,000/year in annual sales. And most have no ability or intention of growing beyond those levels...unless they can find clients who want to pay them more per-hour for the same number of hours worked (thereby increasing their annual revenues).That's why my company has had success in the industry. We are a team of 15 individuals who can offer 7-8 times the services and total design hours that any of our competitors can...meaning we are about the closest thing to a "one stop shop" that is out there, and can handle the really BIG jobs that are occasionally necessary in our industry. And even then, I've never even cracked $1 million in annual revenues as a company. Yet I am classified/treated the same as companies earning 8-10 times more than I do...creating jobs for 10-20+ times more people?! :shrug:

 
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'datonn said:
'snogger said:
'jon_mx said:
'Maurile Tremblay said:
2) What is this fetish with small business? Why are small businesses more important than big businesses? Aren’t they mostly small because mostly they’re not very good?
Small Business is usually what fuels an economic recovery and is where most job growth occurs.
:goodposting: What a slap in the face to small businesses everywhere with that last statement.. Basically saying.. You are a small business because you suck.. :thumbdown:
Not only that, but most "small" businesses are not small at all, according to SBA standards: "the business must have no more than 500 employees for most manufacturing and mining industries, and no more than $7 million in average annual receipts for most nonmanufacturing industries."500 employees and/or $7 million in average annual receipts? Seriously...a SMALL business is a mom and pop that might never employ 25 workers at any given time, where they would be partying in Aruba if they ever hit $1 million in revenues!

I've told anyone who will listen that we probably need a new category for businesses in our nation...I've dubbed it "nano-business." Because when all the politicians are trotting-out "Joe the Plumber" or waxing poetic about that small manufacturing shop in Nowhere, Indiana that they've visited, that's what they are talking about. 500 employees and/or $7 million in receipts? Dear Lord...how many "small businesses" in our nation have fewer than 25 employees and $1 million in sales? Let me give you a hint: a strong majority. Only our government setting policies and cutting tax breaks for "small businesses" aren't targeting those folks. They're targeting the small businesses that really aren't so small.

And on that same train of thought, we need a third term for economics in addition to "macro" and "micro." Yep, you guessed it: "nano." Because that also is what most people are talking about (and voting on) when it comes to anything associated with money. How it'll affect the bottom line for themselves, their family, their extended family, their little social groups or clans. Probably BARELY their cities and counties! And certainly not their State or nation. [/rant]
Great post. This is almost never discussed. The "small" business label covers way too many business that are employing a lot of people and generating serious revenues.
 
'CowboysFromHell said:
Would be great if we could get Gary Johnson in the next debate, so America could actually see some NEW ideas about how to fix all of the problems the Dems and Repubs have caused. :rolleyes:
Wasn't Gary Johnson recently a Con himself? Just because you change the letter behind your name...
 
'CowboysFromHell said:
Would be great if we could get Gary Johnson in the next debate, so America could actually see some NEW ideas about how to fix all of the problems the Dems and Repubs have caused. :rolleyes:
Wasn't Gary Johnson recently a Con himself? Just because you change the letter behind your name...
A Con? He was never a convict, and never a conservative. Not sure what else that might mean.
 
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