Presidential Debate Thread - Obama vs. Romney (4 Viewers)

[chet]

I really felt the moderator sort of overstepped her role there. It is not her position to correct either one of them. If the President says something wrong and Romney doesn't catch it, it wouldn't be her job to correct it either. She is supposed to be impartial.

This is a fascinating question. I just heard some commentators take the opposite view- they believe that it is absolutely her proper role to correct one of them if she KNOWS her facts. I'm not sure what is the right answer here. I can see both sides. Obviously, it had an effect on the result of the debate.

She didn't know her facts and STILL jumped in. Why can't they find an impartial mod?

Because your idea of an impartial moderator is one who doesn't know what she's talking about.She was correct in her comment. She had the facts. Romney screwed this up.

This is such a petty topic and it's like losing the football game and blaming the refs.

You are the only one saying she was correct. Candy herself has admitted she was wrong.

This issue will be a big part of Monday's debate and BO can't be happy about that.

Link?

[schrute] FALSE [/schrute]http://washingtonexaminer.com/debate-moderator-candy-crowley-romney-was-right-in-main-libya-argument-but-he-picked-the-wrong-word/article/2510979#.UH4zW2l25M4

The point is that BO tried to misconstrue his position on Benghazzi during the debate. Romney didn't nail him effectively, and because of that, it's going to be picked to death over the next week. I think BO comes out looking bad on this one.

For the record, Candy said that Mitt was right on the point.

 

[jonessed]

CNN has Obama winning, but within the margin of error. I don't believe the polls are going to move, but I'm not an undecided Ohio woman.

 

[Steve Tasker]

I've stayed out of this cluster#### thread for the most part, but I've just gotta say that I found Obama's final remarks to be really fantastic. He came off as genuine, honest, and compassionate, and for the first time in awhile, I felt like I was seeing the real candidate rather than the person that Obama/Romney are each pretending to be.

I found it to be really impressive, and reminiscent of the charisma that helped propel Obama to the 2008 win. And I'm not an Obama fanboy, FWIW.

 

[adonis]

I really felt the moderator sort of overstepped her role there. It is not her position to correct either one of them. If the President says something wrong and Romney doesn't catch it, it wouldn't be her job to correct it either. She is supposed to be impartial.

This is a fascinating question. I just heard some commentators take the opposite view- they believe that it is absolutely her proper role to correct one of them if she KNOWS her facts. I'm not sure what is the right answer here. I can see both sides. Obviously, it had an effect on the result of the debate.

She didn't know her facts and STILL jumped in. Why can't they find an impartial mod?

Because your idea of an impartial moderator is one who doesn't know what she's talking about.She was correct in her comment. She had the facts. Romney screwed this up.

This is such a petty topic and it's like losing the football game and blaming the refs.

You are the only one saying she was correct. Candy herself has admitted she was wrong.

This issue will be a big part of Monday's debate and BO can't be happy about that.

Link?

[schrute] FALSE [/schrute]http://washingtonexaminer.com/debate-moderator-candy-crowley-romney-was-right-in-main-libya-argument-but-he-picked-the-wrong-word/article/2510979#.UH4zW2l25M4

The point is that BO tried to misconstrue his position on Benghazzi during the debate. Romney didn't nail him effectively, and because of that, it's going to be picked to death over the next week. I think BO comes out looking bad on this one.

For the record, Candy said that Mitt was right on the point.

Yes, but as opposed to what you said of "Candy herself has admitted she was wrong", well that's just inaccurate.Perhaps what we need is Dwight Schrute to fact check these debates in real time.

 

[Politician Spock]

I really felt the moderator sort of overstepped her role there. It is not her position to correct either one of them. If the President says something wrong and Romney doesn't catch it, it wouldn't be her job to correct it either. She is supposed to be impartial.

This is a fascinating question. I just heard some commentators take the opposite view- they believe that it is absolutely her proper role to correct one of them if she KNOWS her facts. I'm not sure what is the right answer here. I can see both sides. Obviously, it had an effect on the result of the debate.

She didn't know her facts and STILL jumped in. Why can't they find an impartial mod?

Because your idea of an impartial moderator is one who doesn't know what she's talking about.She was correct in her comment. She had the facts. Romney screwed this up.

This is such a petty topic and it's like losing the football game and blaming the refs.

You are the only one saying she was correct. Candy herself has admitted she was wrong.

This issue will be a big part of Monday's debate and BO can't be happy about that.

Link?

[schrute] FALSE [/schrute]http://washingtonexaminer.com/debate-moderator-candy-crowley-romney-was-right-in-main-libya-argument-but-he-picked-the-wrong-word/article/2510979#.UH4zW2l25M4

The point is that BO tried to misconstrue his position on Benghazzi during the debate. Romney didn't nail him effectively, and because of that, it's going to be picked to death over the next week. I think BO comes out looking bad on this one.

For the record, Candy said that Mitt was right on the point.

Obama is dodging Libyan bullets faster than superman. If he can keep this up for another 3 weeks, he deserves to win.

 

[geoff8695]

No clear winner = boring debate

Sorry RBM, but when conservatives such as yourself and Max declare "no clear winner", then it is extremely likely that Obama is the winner.

So you really don't think this is basically a draw so far?

A draw maybe is a win for Romney? I thought the town hall format was going to be in Obama's wheelhouse?

A draw is a win for the President. It is up to the challenger to distance/separate himself from the incumbent and prove/convince voters that he deserves a shot at the title. IMO tonight was a draw, and therefore a victory for Obama.Although Tim is convinced no one will watch the final debate, and traditionally the final presidential debate is the least watched - I have a feeling the 3rd debate will be one of the most watched in the history of presidential debates. Especially after the feistiness exhibited tonight. This is going to be fun!

 

[MaxThreshold]

I think this Libya thing is going to be a problem for BO.

At the very least, how did Candy have the quote on her desk ready to protect BO?

She paid attention and researched the issues and quotes before the debate. It was no surprise this would come up, she was simply prepared.

Quotes really mean nothing without context.

She all but admitted on CNN that she botched that.

And she even went on to make Romney's point about the administration blaming the video for the next two weeks. What a disaster.

She made that point during the debate itself, right?

Maybe I don't even remember. But here is the clip of her on CNN after the debate saying Romney was right on Libya-

I knew I was right on this! She did say that he said acts of terror on the rose garden and then turned around and said Mitt Romney was right too.Romney was right on the subject.

 

[adonis]

I knew I was right on this! She did say that he said acts of terror on the rose garden and then turned around and said Mitt Romney was right too.Romney was right on the subject.

This has been my point all along.

 

[MaxThreshold]

No clear winner = boring debate

Sorry RBM, but when conservatives such as yourself and Max declare "no clear winner", then it is extremely likely that Obama is the winner.

So you really don't think this is basically a draw so far?

A draw maybe is a win for Romney? I thought the town hall format was going to be in Obama's wheelhouse?

A draw is a win for the President. It is up to the challenger to distance/separate himself from the incumbent and prove/convince voters that he deserves a shot at the title. IMO tonight was a draw, and therefore a victory for Obama.Although Tim is convinced no one will watch the final debate, and traditionally the final presidential debate is the least watched - I have a feeling the 3rd debate will be one of the most watched in the history of presidential debates. Especially after the feistiness exhibited tonight. This is going to be fun!

Obama needed more than a draw tonight and he didn't get it. But I don't think it was a draw - Romney took this debate too.

 

[badmojo1006]

No clear winner = boring debate

Sorry RBM, but when conservatives such as yourself and Max declare "no clear winner", then it is extremely likely that Obama is the winner.

So you really don't think this is basically a draw so far?

A draw maybe is a win for Romney? I thought the town hall format was going to be in Obama's wheelhouse?

A draw is a win for the President. It is up to the challenger to distance/separate himself from the incumbent and prove/convince voters that he deserves a shot at the title. IMO tonight was a draw, and therefore a victory for Obama.Although Tim is convinced no one will watch the final debate, and traditionally the final presidential debate is the least watched - I have a feeling the 3rd debate will be one of the most watched in the history of presidential debates. Especially after the feistiness exhibited tonight. This is going to be fun!

Obama needed more than a draw tonight and he didn't get it. But I don't think it was a draw - Romney took this debate too.

Cool! Sean Hannity posts on FBG!

 

[sporthenry]

No clear winner = boring debate

Sorry RBM, but when conservatives such as yourself and Max declare "no clear winner", then it is extremely likely that Obama is the winner.

So you really don't think this is basically a draw so far?

A draw maybe is a win for Romney? I thought the town hall format was going to be in Obama's wheelhouse?

A draw is a win for the President. It is up to the challenger to distance/separate himself from the incumbent and prove/convince voters that he deserves a shot at the title. IMO tonight was a draw, and therefore a victory for Obama.Although Tim is convinced no one will watch the final debate, and traditionally the final presidential debate is the least watched - I have a feeling the 3rd debate will be one of the most watched in the history of presidential debates. Especially after the feistiness exhibited tonight. This is going to be fun!

Obama needed more than a draw tonight and he didn't get it. But I don't think it was a draw - Romney took this debate too.

Cool! Sean Hannity posts on FBG!

 

[DoubleG]

No one cares about Libya.

No one cares about Fast and Furious.

There are plenty of attacks that we can say have little traction in the run up to the presidential election (from both sides), but it is FAR too early to say that neither Fast and Furious nor Libya matter in this election. I wouldn't be so quick to reach your conclusion/assumption that neither matters to anyone who is isn't a partisan.Sounds like you are being dismissive and just want these issues to go away, rather than having any real pulse on whether these issues will score points with moderate voters.

Romney's attacks may be characterized as partisan, unfair, and tenuous in some instances; however, even Obama supporters can't possibly be happy about the administration's handling of either of these two issues. While they may not prove decisive, these are low points rather than non-events that can just be swept under the rug IMO...

Tonight's debate may not have effectively carried Romney's narrative on either issue, but I get the sense that you are projecting your own desires/feelings/passions here. At best, it comes off as highly partisan from where I'm sitting; at worst, it smacks of intellectual dishonesty on your part.

In regards to the bolded - that's what the 3rd debate is for.

 

[adonis]

Obama needed more than a draw tonight and he didn't get it. But I don't think it was a draw - Romney took this debate too.

You should be voting for someone else because you need a third party candidate to legalize the drugs you must be taking to conclude that.

 

[Willie Neslon]

@mrsneslon did you eat all the gingersnaps #doghouse

 

[badmojo1006]

And it looks like Romney was wrong about the binders full of women. He didn't ask for it, it was given to him

 

[RBM]

When is the next one?

 

[MaxThreshold]

I knew I was right on this! She did say that he said acts of terror on the rose garden and then turned around and said Mitt Romney was right too.Romney was right on the subject.

This has been my point all along.

Then I'm not going crazy. Thanks for the validation.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Candy herself has admitted she was wrong.

No she didn't.

 

[badmojo1006]

When is the next one?

Last one is next Monday

 

[MaxThreshold]

Obama needed more than a draw tonight and he didn't get it. But I don't think it was a draw - Romney took this debate too.

You should be voting for someone else because you need a third party candidate to legalize the drugs you must be taking to conclude that.

How do you say Obama won this one? Clearly at the VERY LEAST it was a draw, but I still think Romney nailed it on the economy and jobs and that was the dagger.

 

[RBM]

When is the next one?

Last one is next Monday

Noooooooo. During the fn Bear game?!?! You gotta be ####tin me

 

[adonis]

Obama needed more than a draw tonight and he didn't get it. But I don't think it was a draw - Romney took this debate too.

You should be voting for someone else because you need a third party candidate to legalize the drugs you must be taking to conclude that.

How do you say Obama won this one? Clearly at the VERY LEAST it was a draw, but I still think Romney nailed it on the economy and jobs and that was the dagger.

Obama outperformed expectations here, had some strong moments on the Libya issue and his closing remarks were excellent. He made good appeals to women and hispanics, and overall had command of the entire night, making Romney play defense for most of it.Romney had some good moments, and yes he did just fine on several issues, but the vast majority of the mistakes and miscues were his, so the debate victory this time was clearly awarded to Obama.

Romney had several things though that he did well here, but unfortunately for him, the next topic is foreign policy, which Obama has done very well on and I think Romney will have significant challenges with.

 

[Courtjester]

When is the next one?

Last one is next Monday

Hmmm..Going against a MNF game of Detroit vs Chicago....

 

[drummer]

Bye, bye, Barack.http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/10/16/luntz_focus_group_of_mostly_former_obama_voters_switch_to_romney.htmlA Frank Luntz focus group made up mostly of former Obama voters say they now support Mitt Romney."Forceful, compassionate, presidential," one participant said."Confident and realistic," said another."Presidential," another told Luntz."Enthusiastic," another reacted."Our next president," one man said."Dynamo, winner," said one more.

I was gonna post a few more , but Jim11 posts just for that reason.

 

[badmojo1006]

Obama needed more than a draw tonight and he didn't get it. But I don't think it was a draw - Romney took this debate too.

You should be voting for someone else because you need a third party candidate to legalize the drugs you must be taking to conclude that.

How do you say Obama won this one? Clearly at the VERY LEAST it was a draw, but I still think Romney nailed it on the economy and jobs and that was the dagger.

The defining moment of the debate is the Libya question.Romney could have made some points on that, but he looked weak and petty on it and Obama was Presidential.Very few people will disagree on that

 

[adonis]

Obama needed more than a draw tonight and he didn't get it. But I don't think it was a draw - Romney took this debate too.

You should be voting for someone else because you need a third party candidate to legalize the drugs you must be taking to conclude that.

How do you say Obama won this one? Clearly at the VERY LEAST it was a draw, but I still think Romney nailed it on the economy and jobs and that was the dagger.

The defining moment of the debate is the Libya question.Romney could have made some points on that, but he looked weak and petty on it and Obama was Presidential.Very few people will disagree on that

The defining image of the debate I think is the look Obama gave Romney when he called his comments on LIbya "offensive".

 

[drummer]

Obama needed more than a draw tonight and he didn't get it. But I don't think it was a draw - Romney took this debate too.

You should be voting for someone else because you need a third party candidate to legalize the drugs you must be taking to conclude that.

How do you say Obama won this one? Clearly at the VERY LEAST it was a draw, but I still think Romney nailed it on the economy and jobs and that was the dagger.

Not even close. Obama took this one. Just admit Romney threw once too many into coverage and got picked for a couple.

 

[DoubleG]

I've stayed out of this cluster#### thread for the most part, but I've just gotta say that I found Obama's final remarks to be really fantastic. He came off as genuine, honest, and compassionate, and for the first time in awhile, I felt like I was seeing the real candidate rather than the person that Obama/Romney are each pretending to be.I found it to be really impressive, and reminiscent of the charisma that helped propel Obama to the 2008 win. And I'm not an Obama fanboy, FWIW.

Really? See, I thought he had a strong night - but felt his closing comment was rehearsed (the "4 more years line" sounded over-practiced). It also seemed as though he "saved" the 47% barb until he knew there could be no response. That seemed petty - like "I can say this last thing and you can't argue".Like I said, Obama had a good showing - better than the first. But his closing was, imho, far from impressive.

 

[geoff8695]

When is the next one?

Last one is next Monday

Noooooooo. During the fn Bear game?!?! You gotta be ####tin me

That's what DVRs are for; I'll be at the game. However, I'm recording and really looking forward to watching the final debate. Tonight's was one of the more riveting I've ever seen. Clearly, both candidates were challenged and rattled at times. Neither one looked as 'presidential' as I'm sure they would have liked. I'm really looking forward to the final debate, and actually wishing we could have four or five of these things, but I'm crazy like that...

 

[bigbottom]

Obama needed more than a draw tonight and he didn't get it. But I don't think it was a draw - Romney took this debate too.

You should be voting for someone else because you need a third party candidate to legalize the drugs you must be taking to conclude that.

How do you say Obama won this one? Clearly at the VERY LEAST it was a draw, but I still think Romney nailed it on the economy and jobs and that was the dagger.

The defining moment of the debate is the Libya question.Romney could have made some points on that, but he looked weak and petty on it and Obama was Presidential.Very few people will disagree on that

I really don't give two ####s about the Rose Garden gotcha, but the scolding that Obama gave Romney on politicizing the issue as the crisis was unfolding was something to behold. It was like that time when your mom spanked you in front of all your friends.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Obama needed more than a draw tonight and he didn't get it. But I don't think it was a draw - Romney took this debate too.

You should be voting for someone else because you need a third party candidate to legalize the drugs you must be taking to conclude that.

How do you say Obama won this one? Clearly at the VERY LEAST it was a draw, but I still think Romney nailed it on the economy and jobs and that was the dagger.

Not even close. Obama took this one. Just admit Romney threw once too many into coverage and got picked for a couple.

Some of the initial polls are saying that Obama "edged" out Obama. So "not even close" is, well, not even close to the truth. "Edge" meaning just barely. But I'm seeing others where Romney edged Obama.I don't even think the Libya issue the left is claiming as a knockout is even that. Romney was actually right about it - and over the next few days will be proven correct. Besides, the video link posted above has Crowley even admitting that Romney was right all along.

 

[badmojo1006]

Obama needed more than a draw tonight and he didn't get it. But I don't think it was a draw - Romney took this debate too.

You should be voting for someone else because you need a third party candidate to legalize the drugs you must be taking to conclude that.

How do you say Obama won this one? Clearly at the VERY LEAST it was a draw, but I still think Romney nailed it on the economy and jobs and that was the dagger.

Not even close. Obama took this one. Just admit Romney threw once too many into coverage and got picked for a couple.

Some of the initial polls are saying that Obama "edged" out Obama. So "not even close" is, well, not even close to the truth. "Edge" meaning just barely. But I'm seeing others where Romney edged Obama.I don't even think the Libya issue the left is claiming as a knockout is even that. Romney was actually right about it - and over the next few days will be proven correct. Besides, the video link posted above has Crowley even admitting that Romney was right all along.

 

[adonis]

Obama needed more than a draw tonight and he didn't get it. But I don't think it was a draw - Romney took this debate too.

You should be voting for someone else because you need a third party candidate to legalize the drugs you must be taking to conclude that.

How do you say Obama won this one? Clearly at the VERY LEAST it was a draw, but I still think Romney nailed it on the economy and jobs and that was the dagger.

Not even close. Obama took this one. Just admit Romney threw once too many into coverage and got picked for a couple.

Some of the initial polls are saying that Obama "edged" out Obama. So "not even close" is, well, not even close to the truth. "Edge" meaning just barely. But I'm seeing others where Romney edged Obama.I don't even think the Libya issue the left is claiming as a knockout is even that. Romney was actually right about it - and over the next few days will be proven correct. Besides, the video link posted above has Crowley even admitting that Romney was right all along.

Romney wasn't right about "the Libya issue". He was simply correct when he said that it took Obama, what, 12 or 14 days to characterize it outright as a terrorist attack instead of discussing a crowd, or a video or something.She wasn't saying that his overall point was correct on the issue of Libya, but simply his overall point on how the Administration framed the issue.

 

[drummer]

Obama needed more than a draw tonight and he didn't get it. But I don't think it was a draw - Romney took this debate too.

You should be voting for someone else because you need a third party candidate to legalize the drugs you must be taking to conclude that.

How do you say Obama won this one? Clearly at the VERY LEAST it was a draw, but I still think Romney nailed it on the economy and jobs and that was the dagger.

Not even close. Obama took this one. Just admit Romney threw once too many into coverage and got picked for a couple.

Some of the initial polls are saying that Obama "edged" out Obama. So "not even close" is, well, not even close to the truth. "Edge" meaning just barely. But I'm seeing others where Romney edged Obama.I don't even think the Libya issue the left is claiming as a knockout is even that. Romney was actually right about it - and over the next few days will be proven correct. Besides, the video link posted above has Crowley even admitting that Romney was right all along.

The Libya issue can get re-booted in ads by the Obama campaign to where Romney first politicized it. Bottom line is Obama won that point tonight, no matter Crowley. Twitter blew up with that point alone, the whole women and binder thing also blew up in real time. Obama won. It's that simple.

 

[adonis]

Obama needed more than a draw tonight and he didn't get it. But I don't think it was a draw - Romney took this debate too.

You should be voting for someone else because you need a third party candidate to legalize the drugs you must be taking to conclude that.

How do you say Obama won this one? Clearly at the VERY LEAST it was a draw, but I still think Romney nailed it on the economy and jobs and that was the dagger.

The defining moment of the debate is the Libya question.Romney could have made some points on that, but he looked weak and petty on it and Obama was Presidential.Very few people will disagree on that

The defining image of the debate I think is the look Obama gave Romney when he called his comments on LIbya "offensive".

"The suggestion that anybody on my team, whether it's a secretary of state, our UN ambassador, anybody on my team, would play politics or mislead when we've lost four of our own, governor, is offensive.

"That's not what we do. That's not what I do as president, not what I do as commander in chief,"

[angry stare...walk back to seat]

 

[DoubleG]

I don't even think the Libya issue the left is claiming as a knockout is even that. Romney was actually right about it - and over the next few days will be proven correct. Besides, the video link posted above has Crowley even admitting that Romney was right all along.

This. "Obama looked really Presidential...while he was in the process of getting his facts wrong about his own quote" doesn't hold quite the same oomph.

 

[geoff8695]

Obama needed more than a draw tonight and he didn't get it. But I don't think it was a draw - Romney took this debate too.

You should be voting for someone else because you need a third party candidate to legalize the drugs you must be taking to conclude that.

How do you say Obama won this one? Clearly at the VERY LEAST it was a draw, but I still think Romney nailed it on the economy and jobs and that was the dagger.

The defining moment of the debate is the Libya question.Romney could have made some points on that, but he looked weak and petty on it and Obama was Presidential.Very few people will disagree on that

I really don't give two ####s about the Rose Garden gotcha, but the scolding that Obama gave Romney on politicizing the issue as the crisis was unfolding was something to behold.

Is that because the administration's conduct for two weeks following might be seen as politicizing the issue, or because you think Romney and his supporters are politicizing the reaction to the administration's handling?Not sure where you stand personally, but I'm really curious as to how people sitting on the fence are interpreting this. I think this issue, and which side is seen as playing politics with it the most, has a chance to make a real impact in the final weeks leading up to the election.

Pretty fascinating to me, anyways...

 

[Steve Tasker]

I've stayed out of this cluster#### thread for the most part, but I've just gotta say that I found Obama's final remarks to be really fantastic. He came off as genuine, honest, and compassionate, and for the first time in awhile, I felt like I was seeing the real candidate rather than the person that Obama/Romney are each pretending to be.I found it to be really impressive, and reminiscent of the charisma that helped propel Obama to the 2008 win. And I'm not an Obama fanboy, FWIW.

Really? See, I thought he had a strong night - but felt his closing comment was rehearsed (the "4 more years line" sounded over-practiced). It also seemed as though he "saved" the 47% barb until he knew there could be no response. That seemed petty - like "I can say this last thing and you can't argue".Like I said, Obama had a good showing - better than the first. But his closing was, imho, far from impressive.

I didn't watch the entire thing so I can't speak to whether he had a better night overall. I only caught the last 20 minutes or so. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, it just seemed to me like he was actually speaking from the heart rather than spouting the party-line. Whether or not he rehearsed it (and I'm sure he did) is irrelevant, IMO. It was that kind of genuineness and charisma that helped him get elected in the first place, and it's something that I feel he's failed to channel for most of this campaign. While I likely won't be voting for him, I do consider myself a pretty moderate voter and thought it was refreshing to see.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Another set of comments from Steve Landsburg. He gives the edge to Obama this time.

My wife, who really ought to have her own blog, heard only the few minutes dealing with immigration and then China and summed up the candidates’ shared position as “We sure love immigrants, but we sure hate foreigners”.

I, by contrast, slogged through the entire thing. Here are my own less brilliant comments, typed in real time while watching the debate; not edited and perhaps in some cases not sufficiently thought through:

1. Romney in a blue tie; Obama in red. Opposite of last time. Do they coordinate this?

2. Romney: “I know what it takes to create good jobs again, blah blah blah”. Okay. Are you going to tell us what “it” is?

3. Obama looking much more alive than last time.

4. Obama: “I want to build manufacturing jobs.” [Gosh darn] it, I hope Romney jumps all over this. It is not the president’s job to decide which sectors should thrive. It is, in fact, the essence of corruption.

5. Romney claims his 5-point plan creates 12 million jobs. To suggest that it is possible to make forecasts with this sort of precision is what we technically call a lie.

6. Obama going heavy on the class warfare.

7. Does Obama agree that it’s not the energy dept’s job to lower gas prices? This should be an easy “of course it’s not”.

8. Obama boasting about top-down planning of the car industry, govt setting fuel standards etc. I hope Romney jumps all over the “top-down govt” issue. Not optimistic.

9. Obama: Romney’s “got the oil and gas part but not the clean energy part”. Dammit, again, it’s not the president’s job to to “get” any of these parts. Will Romney mention this? Guess not.

10. Romney pushing energy independence. Obama unlikely to make a good case against it.

11. Crowley asks the right question: “Is it within the purview of the govt to bring gas prices down?”. Obama ignores the question.

12. Obama: “Natural gas isn’t just appearing; we’re encouraging it”. This is like Al Gore inventing the Internet. The govt does not produce natural gas.

13. Obama again with “We’re going to produce such and such a sort of cars….”. Dammit, if you want to run a car company, get a job at a car company. If you want to be president of the US, stop trying to be an auto executive.

14. Romney: If gas prices are up, then energy policy isn’t working. This is appalling. He can’t think of any legitimate reasons prices might be up?

15. Obama: “We’ve” built enough pipeline to wrap around the earth once. No, Mr. President, you didn’t build that.

16. Romney trying to walk all over the moderator, demanding time to respond to Obama; I doubt this looks good.

17. Romney reiterating that he wants a more progressive tax code (“I want middle income taxpayers to pay lower taxes”). Nobody around to make the contrary case.

18. Romney to eliminate all taxes on interest, dividends and capgains (yay!)…..but only for “middle income” taxpayers (boo!).

19. Obama says reducing govt debt is a moral obligation to the next generation. Fine. But he has also told us, in other contexts, that govt has no business enforcing morality. So how is this an argument for reducing debt?

20. Obama, who wants to run the car industry, favor manufacturing, etc etc, has the audacity to slam “top down economics”.

21. Romney wants to cut tax rates to spur small business. So—-favoring small business over big business? Is this any better than Obama favoring manufacturing?

22. More from Romney with the small business fetish. Bleh.

23. Obama calling a $5 trillion tax cut a $5 trillion “cost”. Sigh.

24. Obama descending into sheer demagoguery here: Saying Romney pays at a lower rate than laborers do, ignoring that Romeny’s income is almost all from capital, so what he’s paying are *surtaxes*.

25. I’ve lost count of the lies and illogic on both sides, but I think Obama’s a better liar; his demeanor makes him seem more believable (provided you don’t listen too hard to what he’s saying).

26. Romney once again trying to walk all over the moderator. Once again, I doubt this plays well.

27. Lily Ledbetter bill has come up; will Romney attempt to explain how horrible this legislation is? I bet not. Is this ignorance or cynicism?

28. Romney admitting that as governor he prioritized gender over qualifications when staffing his cabinet. This does not bode well for his appointments as president.

29. In the midst of a pathetic answer, Romney slips in the key point: The way to get women’s wages up is to increase the demand for labor. He got something right! (But still hasn’t explained why Obama’s approach is so wrong.)

30. Obama has the AUDACITY to accuse ROMNEY of letting politicians decide the content of insurance policies, and then segues IMMEDIATELY into advertising that HIS health care bill dictates contraceptive coverage!!!! Are there voters dumb enough to nod their heads and agree with this? Do people that dumb actually turn out to vote?

31. Asked how he differs from George Bush, Romney reiterates a bunch of stuff he said before; seems to think it’s more important to repeat the few things he practiced than to say anything new.

32. Obama says he “saved jobs” by keeping cheap Chinese tires out of US. Hope Romney mentions that we’re all paying more for tires now.

33. I don’t think Romney’s doing anything to fire up his base, and I don’t think he’s doing anything to win over independents — so I don’t think he’s doing himself any good tonight.

34. Romney giving long soliloquy on how nothing has worked; not a whole lot of content but in terms of presentation I think it’s his best moment so far.

35. Romney talks about all the advantages of legal immigration, then opposes illegal immigration despite the fact that it has all the same advantages.

36. I believe Obama has been more ruthless than Bush re deportations. Not sure this is true, but if it is, I hope Romney points it out.

37. And now Obama talks about all the advantages of legal immigration — which cries out for Romney to ask why, then, he’s been sending his jackbooted thugs all over the country to deport productively employed people. Sadly, we’re already on to different topics.

38. Obama looking very good taking offense at Romney’s intimations of his having played politics over Libya.

39. Big slip on Romney’s part saying Obama had not called the Libya attack an “act of terror” the day after the attack. Obama responds brilliantly by not contradicting Romney directly but instead saying “Please proceed, governor”, allowing Romney to dig himself deeper.

40. To repeat: Romney not, as far as I can tell, giving anyone a reason to vote for him who wasn’t going to already.

41. They’re on to gun control; my attention is flagging.

42. Obama claiming that reducing class size is an efficient way to increase economic growth. Romney should ask “Where’s the evidence?”.

43. Romney fetishizing the manufacturing sector when he ought to be bashing Obama for this fetish.

44. He used the phrase “trickle down govt” again; I like this.

45. Romney: “On day one, I will label China a currency manipulator”. I wish Obama would jump all over this. Bet he won’t.

46. Moderator: “How do you convince companies to bring manufacturing back to the US from China?” — seemingly TAKING IT AS GIVEN that this is desirable. This is really extraordinary bias on the moderator’s part.

47. Obama: “some jobs won't come back because they are low-wage, low-skilled jobs”. Yes. Applause for this.

48. Romeny gets a major softball for his final question: “What is the biggest misconception about you?”. Gets to talk about what a great guy he is.

49. Romney mentions he believes in God. Fails to mention that he also believes Joseph Smith told the truth about those tablets. Or does he?

50. Now Obama takes the same softball. Says he believes in free enterprise. Then why is he trying to run the auto industry? Or dictate women’s wages? Or run the insurance industry? Or favor the manufacturing sector? (Yes, I know I’m repeating myself.) But a lot of viewers will look right past this. He sounds, I think, very good as long as you don’t compare his rhetoric to his policies.

 

[Jim11]

No bigger fairy tale than "hope and change".....ever

Everytime you pay your taxes now, you can think of me and how you are helping to pay for my health care now. Hope AND change.

At least you admit that you're a leech...but in the end you're still a leech.

 

[drummer]

No bigger fairy tale than "hope and change".....ever

Everytime you pay your taxes now, you can think of me and how you are helping to pay for my health care now. Hope AND change.

At least you admit that you're a leech...but in the end you're still a leech.

So are you.

 

[geoff8695]

Obama needed more than a draw tonight and he didn't get it. But I don't think it was a draw - Romney took this debate too.

You should be voting for someone else because you need a third party candidate to legalize the drugs you must be taking to conclude that.

How do you say Obama won this one? Clearly at the VERY LEAST it was a draw, but I still think Romney nailed it on the economy and jobs and that was the dagger.

The defining moment of the debate is the Libya question.Romney could have made some points on that, but he looked weak and petty on it and Obama was Presidential.Very few people will disagree on that

I really don't give two ####s about the Rose Garden gotcha, but the scolding that Obama gave Romney on politicizing the issue as the crisis was unfolding was something to behold.

Is that because the administration's conduct for two weeks following might be seen as politicizing the issue, or because you think Romney and his supporters are politicizing the reaction to the administration's handling?Not sure where you stand personally, but I'm really curious as to how people sitting on the fence are interpreting this. I think this issue, and which side is seen as playing politics with it the most, has a chance to make a real impact in the final weeks leading up to the election.

Pretty fascinating to me, anyways...

Ahhh....NM

You edited your post, making it very clear that you think this was a big win for the President.

 

[drummer]

I don't even think the Libya issue the left is claiming as a knockout is even that. Romney was actually right about it - and over the next few days will be proven correct. Besides, the video link posted above has Crowley even admitting that Romney was right all along.

This. "Obama looked really Presidential...while he was in the process of getting his facts wrong about his own quote" doesn't hold quite the same oomph.

The body language of Romney in that point: he looked smaller, like he shrunk.

 

[sublimeone]

There are very few times a bald faced lie is told in these debates. Typically the facts are open to interpretation and each side can spin the truth the way they want it spun. But with regard to the Benghazi issue, Obama made a statement that is categorically untrue. He did not call it an act of terror the day after the attack. He did not call it an act of terror a few days later when the president of Libya called it an act of terror. There is no way to spin this.

Romney may not have capitalized on this during the debate, thanks in large part to the moderator botching it and then changing the subject, but that point in the debate stuck out to people for the way it was handled by the moderator and reacted to by the audience. That means it's going to get coverage and this exchange, which might have otherwise gone ignored, is going to be front and center.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Obama needed more than a draw tonight and he didn't get it. But I don't think it was a draw - Romney took this debate too.

You should be voting for someone else because you need a third party candidate to legalize the drugs you must be taking to conclude that.

How do you say Obama won this one? Clearly at the VERY LEAST it was a draw, but I still think Romney nailed it on the economy and jobs and that was the dagger.

Not even close. Obama took this one. Just admit Romney threw once too many into coverage and got picked for a couple.

Some of the initial polls are saying that Obama "edged" out Obama. So "not even close" is, well, not even close to the truth. "Edge" meaning just barely. But I'm seeing others where Romney edged Obama.I don't even think the Libya issue the left is claiming as a knockout is even that. Romney was actually right about it - and over the next few days will be proven correct. Besides, the video link posted above has Crowley even admitting that Romney was right all along.

Romney wasn't right about "the Libya issue". He was simply correct when he said that it took Obama, what, 12 or 14 days to characterize it outright as a terrorist attack instead of discussing a crowd, or a video or something.She wasn't saying that his overall point was correct on the issue of Libya, but simply his overall point on how the Administration framed the issue.

Yes, he was. Even Crowley says in the video he was right about the administration saying it was youtube video that caused the attack for 2 weeks. She says Romney just used the wrong word.

 

[Jewell]

1. Romney in a blue tie; Obama in red. Opposite of last time. Do they coordinate this?

I bet that they do coordinate so that they're not sporting the same color tie.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Wolf presented the poll as 46 - 39 Obama and said there was 8 point increase in sampling Republicans over their normal polls. Then he said that meant it was a tie. Isn't that backwards?

Wolf is still trying to figure out if little Falcon was in that balloon.

 

[bigbottom]

Obama needed more than a draw tonight and he didn't get it. But I don't think it was a draw - Romney took this debate too.

You should be voting for someone else because you need a third party candidate to legalize the drugs you must be taking to conclude that.

How do you say Obama won this one? Clearly at the VERY LEAST it was a draw, but I still think Romney nailed it on the economy and jobs and that was the dagger.

The defining moment of the debate is the Libya question.Romney could have made some points on that, but he looked weak and petty on it and Obama was Presidential.Very few people will disagree on that

I really don't give two ####s about the Rose Garden gotcha, but the scolding that Obama gave Romney on politicizing the issue as the crisis was unfolding was something to behold.

Is that because the administration's conduct for two weeks following might be seen as politicizing the issue, or because you think Romney and his supporters are politicizing the reaction to the administration's handling?Not sure where you stand personally, but I'm really curious as to how people sitting on the fence are interpreting this. I think this issue, and which side is seen as playing politics with it the most, has a chance to make a real impact in the final weeks leading up to the election.

Pretty fascinating to me, anyways...

My comment was about the verbal spanking, not the issue itself. On the substantive issue, I'm reserving judgment until I know more, but I would categorize my current stance as concerned about the administration's handling of the security issue. I'm less concerned about the post-event communication.

 

[geoff8695]

Another set of comments from Steve Landsburg. He gives the edge to Obama this time.

My wife, who really ought to have her own blog, heard only the few minutes dealing with immigration and then China and summed up the candidates’ shared position as “We sure love immigrants, but we sure hate foreigners”.

I, by contrast, slogged through the entire thing. Here are my own less brilliant comments, typed in real time while watching the debate; not edited and perhaps in some cases not sufficiently thought through:

1. Romney in a blue tie; Obama in red. Opposite of last time. Do they coordinate this?

2. Romney: “I know what it takes to create good jobs again, blah blah blah”. Okay. Are you going to tell us what “it” is?

3. Obama looking much more alive than last time.

4. Obama: “I want to build manufacturing jobs.” [Gosh darn] it, I hope Romney jumps all over this. It is not the president’s job to decide which sectors should thrive. It is, in fact, the essence of corruption.

5. Romney claims his 5-point plan creates 12 million jobs. To suggest that it is possible to make forecasts with this sort of precision is what we technically call a lie.

6. Obama going heavy on the class warfare.

7. Does Obama agree that it’s not the energy dept’s job to lower gas prices? This should be an easy “of course it’s not”.

8. Obama boasting about top-down planning of the car industry, govt setting fuel standards etc. I hope Romney jumps all over the “top-down govt” issue. Not optimistic.

9. Obama: Romney’s “got the oil and gas part but not the clean energy part”. Dammit, again, it’s not the president’s job to to “get” any of these parts. Will Romney mention this? Guess not.

10. Romney pushing energy independence. Obama unlikely to make a good case against it.

11. Crowley asks the right question: “Is it within the purview of the govt to bring gas prices down?”. Obama ignores the question.

12. Obama: “Natural gas isn’t just appearing; we’re encouraging it”. This is like Al Gore inventing the Internet. The govt does not produce natural gas.

13. Obama again with “We’re going to produce such and such a sort of cars….”. Dammit, if you want to run a car company, get a job at a car company. If you want to be president of the US, stop trying to be an auto executive.

14. Romney: If gas prices are up, then energy policy isn’t working. This is appalling. He can’t think of any legitimate reasons prices might be up?

15. Obama: “We’ve” built enough pipeline to wrap around the earth once. No, Mr. President, you didn’t build that.

16. Romney trying to walk all over the moderator, demanding time to respond to Obama; I doubt this looks good.

17. Romney reiterating that he wants a more progressive tax code (“I want middle income taxpayers to pay lower taxes”). Nobody around to make the contrary case.

18. Romney to eliminate all taxes on interest, dividends and capgains (yay!)…..but only for “middle income” taxpayers (boo!).

19. Obama says reducing govt debt is a moral obligation to the next generation. Fine. But he has also told us, in other contexts, that govt has no business enforcing morality. So how is this an argument for reducing debt?

20. Obama, who wants to run the car industry, favor manufacturing, etc etc, has the audacity to slam “top down economics”.

21. Romney wants to cut tax rates to spur small business. So—-favoring small business over big business? Is this any better than Obama favoring manufacturing?

22. More from Romney with the small business fetish. Bleh.

23. Obama calling a $5 trillion tax cut a $5 trillion “cost”. Sigh.

24. Obama descending into sheer demagoguery here: Saying Romney pays at a lower rate than laborers do, ignoring that Romeny’s income is almost all from capital, so what he’s paying are *surtaxes*.

25. I’ve lost count of the lies and illogic on both sides, but I think Obama’s a better liar; his demeanor makes him seem more believable (provided you don’t listen too hard to what he’s saying).

26. Romney once again trying to walk all over the moderator. Once again, I doubt this plays well.

27. Lily Ledbetter bill has come up; will Romney attempt to explain how horrible this legislation is? I bet not. Is this ignorance or cynicism?

28. Romney admitting that as governor he prioritized gender over qualifications when staffing his cabinet. This does not bode well for his appointments as president.

29. In the midst of a pathetic answer, Romney slips in the key point: The way to get women’s wages up is to increase the demand for labor. He got something right! (But still hasn’t explained why Obama’s approach is so wrong.)

30. Obama has the AUDACITY to accuse ROMNEY of letting politicians decide the content of insurance policies, and then segues IMMEDIATELY into advertising that HIS health care bill dictates contraceptive coverage!!!! Are there voters dumb enough to nod their heads and agree with this? Do people that dumb actually turn out to vote?

31. Asked how he differs from George Bush, Romney reiterates a bunch of stuff he said before; seems to think it’s more important to repeat the few things he practiced than to say anything new.

32. Obama says he “saved jobs” by keeping cheap Chinese tires out of US. Hope Romney mentions that we’re all paying more for tires now.

33. I don’t think Romney’s doing anything to fire up his base, and I don’t think he’s doing anything to win over independents — so I don’t think he’s doing himself any good tonight.

34. Romney giving long soliloquy on how nothing has worked; not a whole lot of content but in terms of presentation I think it’s his best moment so far.

35. Romney talks about all the advantages of legal immigration, then opposes illegal immigration despite the fact that it has all the same advantages.

36. I believe Obama has been more ruthless than Bush re deportations. Not sure this is true, but if it is, I hope Romney points it out.

37. And now Obama talks about all the advantages of legal immigration — which cries out for Romney to ask why, then, he’s been sending his jackbooted thugs all over the country to deport productively employed people. Sadly, we’re already on to different topics.

38. Obama looking very good taking offense at Romney’s intimations of his having played politics over Libya.

39. Big slip on Romney’s part saying Obama had not called the Libya attack an “act of terror” the day after the attack. Obama responds brilliantly by not contradicting Romney directly but instead saying “Please proceed, governor”, allowing Romney to dig himself deeper.

40. To repeat: Romney not, as far as I can tell, giving anyone a reason to vote for him who wasn’t going to already.

41. They’re on to gun control; my attention is flagging.

42. Obama claiming that reducing class size is an efficient way to increase economic growth. Romney should ask “Where’s the evidence?”.

43. Romney fetishizing the manufacturing sector when he ought to be bashing Obama for this fetish.

44. He used the phrase “trickle down govt” again; I like this.

45. Romney: “On day one, I will label China a currency manipulator”. I wish Obama would jump all over this. Bet he won’t.

46. Moderator: “How do you convince companies to bring manufacturing back to the US from China?” — seemingly TAKING IT AS GIVEN that this is desirable. This is really extraordinary bias on the moderator’s part.

47. Obama: “some jobs won't come back because they are low-wage, low-skilled jobs”. Yes. Applause for this.

48. Romeny gets a major softball for his final question: “What is the biggest misconception about you?”. Gets to talk about what a great guy he is.

49. Romney mentions he believes in God. Fails to mention that he also believes Joseph Smith told the truth about those tablets. Or does he?

50. Now Obama takes the same softball. Says he believes in free enterprise. Then why is he trying to run the auto industry? Or dictate women’s wages? Or run the insurance industry? Or favor the manufacturing sector? (Yes, I know I’m repeating myself.) But a lot of viewers will look right past this. He sounds, I think, very good as long as you don’t compare his rhetoric to his policies.

Most 'fair and balanced' assessment so far in this thread...

 

[tommyGunZ]

No bigger fairy tale than "hope and change".....ever

Everytime you pay your taxes now, you can think of me and how you are helping to pay for my health care now. Hope AND change.

At least you admit that you're a leech...but in the end you're still a leech.

What state are you from Jim?