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Presidential Debate Thread - Obama vs. Romney (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter bigbottom
- Start date
tommyboy
Footballguy
they had on the ground intel real time: http://www.state.gov...MQQjpX0.twitterDept Sec state Charlene Lamb:
http://oversight.hou...mony-FINAL1.pdf
drummer
Footballguy
Do you wanna go back to the original 9/11 and look at reports? More evidence that you don't care the four dead, or 3000 dead. It's Political to you, and you suck at that as well.
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Come on people. Romney can barely justify his tax-cut proposal. Bush policies that in a much better atmosphere led to a huge deficit. Wars and prescription drug measures noted.
Romney talks of savings from captails gains, dividends and your investments. Lala land. What country are you living in? What planet?
Romney has just thrown "brand" BS at the wall. Cut taxes no matter what.
It's desperate and ridiculous.
Romney crushed Obama in the first debate but in this one the bull met the s*#t.
Romney talks of savings from captails gains, dividends and your investments. Lala land. What country are you living in? What planet?
Romney has just thrown "brand" BS at the wall. Cut taxes no matter what.
It's desperate and ridiculous.
Romney crushed Obama in the first debate but in this one the bull met the s*#t.
drummer
Footballguy
That doesn't matter. It's all about how we view the word 'terror' when all we see of it is when we have Phillip Rivers on starting for our Fantasy team.
Romney can't state deductions because they are middle-class deductions. Otherwise he would. How is that not obvious to everyone. Is rolling the dice on middle-class tax-rates the way to go? Why not be "conservative" and let people like Romney paying sub-14% rates take the risk. I have heard from conservative news-outlets that they have trillions on the sidelines just waiting to be invested.
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Would have been nice if Obama would have asked some of those asking the questions what % they paid in taxes last year. Then asked Romney. Don't think the Joe the plumbers of the world realize that those making the real money are paying less taxes then they are. They do see they teachers and fire-fighters in their neighborhood not the Mitt Romney's of the world pocketing the big money. Expose the divide and conquer tactics.
sporthenry
Footballguy
This is the problem with our current economy, most companies have plenty of money to reinvest and most rich people have money to invest as well. They cite a lack of confidence but is a change in presidency really going to make companies all of a sudden hire people? The day Mitt gets elected or sworn in, do people think these rich are just going to invest or spend their money? Companies got smart during the recession and people starting working more hours. 3 40 hour jobs were replaced with 2 60 hour jobs and the same pay. Companies cut jobs they didn't need like secretaries and those jobs aren't going to come back because we all of a sudden have a new president. I look at it as, if the rich and companies don't want to spend their money, then give it to the government who can either give it to the middle class in tax breaks or create public projects to restore our failing infrastructure. Either way, that will ensure money gets to people who will spend the money which will create a higher demand for products which will in turn create more jobs and more tax revenue thus creating a high fiscal multiplier and proving Keynes right.
drummer
Footballguy
Those dollars haven't been in play for over ten years. The House never loses $$$. It only takes the $$ from those who gamble it. Those who gamble it don't play with their own $$, they play with the $$ others fill their pot with. Who loses? Not the house or the player. It's those who put their own chips to let it ride based on who they trust playing the game who wind up losing. Just look at the Euro play of the markets. Denmark has been playing bubbles for years now. What's the difference between a Ponzi and Bubbles? One is legal, the other is not.
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Fox and Drudge have it a draw. Lot of blame on the moderator. Krauthammer has it to Obama on points. Meaning independents had it to Obama big time.
No looking down into the lectern by Obama nor Biden pulling a Ledger. Just talking points. No distractions.
Bye bye Ohio. Going to be 5+ advantage by the weekend and Obama has his head out of his ####.
No looking down into the lectern by Obama nor Biden pulling a Ledger. Just talking points. No distractions.
Bye bye Ohio. Going to be 5+ advantage by the weekend and Obama has his head out of his ####.
Black Sunshine
Footballguy
Yes, but only if you convert to Mormonism. Might be worth it.
sporthenry
Footballguy
And the beauty is they lose its a tax write off either with their other investments or income. Why can't I write off my gambling losses then. You are effectively doing the same thing. And for good measure they'll tax my gambling winnings at a higher rate than capital gains.
Otis
Footballguy
Exactly. This was his mistake. The semantics were a petty battle to pick there, and it was a stupid move.
Otis
Footballguy
And if they lose, it'll be his fault entirely. See what I did there?
Otis
Footballguy
snapshot of foxnews.com is a draw.oh come on
Otis
Footballguy
Hate to say it, but Tim is right here. It was also the WAY that Obama owned it. He did it powerfully and with conviction, manned up, took responsibility, talked about how seriously he took his job and the receiving of the caskets and chastised mitt for daring to make it a political issue. It was brutal, like a child getting scolded for demonstrating bad judgment, and made worse by Candy and the audience piling on. In that moment he was the leader we all want, and mitt was the guy you'd be embarrassed to call your president.
Otis
Footballguy
And usually they don't. And that's why it was so powerful. Candy isn't running for office, so there are no repercussions. Sorry.
Otis
Footballguy
Spot on.Very
drummer
Footballguy
Jaime Dimon, who is IMO a total bad###, told the Senate during those hearings that they had to do something now instead of waiting until this upcoming Election to help correct, hell, validate the market and investments. He got hammered over overseas rouge players in those markets. It's as if Dimon was telling them he had the dirt on them and he ain't going down over this total scam created by the illusory solvency of Lego Land puzzled by many a hand. The bottom line is that the investment never goes broke when those who have the investment has zero risk. Rather, let's put it on those who never have any real investment in it, inflate numbers when those (like the housing debacle) invest in something that should be tangible, and lessen it's value on the game. America is not a market bubble anymore. It's a total Ponzi scheme.
Otis
Footballguy
Biggest whiff of the night was Obama not slaying Mitt for his comments about removing capital gains taxes to help the middle class. I though Obama could have crushed him there by explaining that capital gains are about the wealthy -- about money making money -- and far less about the working class. I thought he could have scored some huge points there.
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
I thought Romney was on the defensive most of the night, but it was a fairly close debate. I think Obama will be viewed as the winner because he improved so much over the last debate while Romney was at about the same level he was at in the initial debate (although I do think there was some decline there).
On Libya - Obama may have have made reference, generically, to terrorism, but it can be argued that in the full context of his speech that he wasn't blaming the attack specifically on terrorism. Still, why send Susan Rice to the talk shows to blame it on a video? Obama himself kept referring to the Youtube video. They clearly had a narrative that this wasn't a terrorism attack, and that was, in my opinion, for political purposes. Give the moderator an assist for deciding to fact check at that point (I'm not sure why she chose this one argument to do that). Romney stumbled as well - he has to be careful in asking questions that he may not get an answer that he's expecting, he also didn't come across as knowing the issue as clearly as he should have. The good news for Romney is now perhaps Libya gets more coverage in the next day or so as the media actually talks about who is right. Next week's foreign policy debate should be interesting - will Obama continue to argue that killing Bin Laden is a foreign policy strategy? What differences are there really outside of Libya? The Iran conversation will likely be small differences.
I thought Romney nailed Obama on the pension question. Obama didn't want to answer and wanted to to move on.
It was clear that Obama was trained to say that Romney was not telling the truth as many times as he could.
Economically, neither candidate has a plan that they are wiling to provide specifics. Scary.
On Libya - Obama may have have made reference, generically, to terrorism, but it can be argued that in the full context of his speech that he wasn't blaming the attack specifically on terrorism. Still, why send Susan Rice to the talk shows to blame it on a video? Obama himself kept referring to the Youtube video. They clearly had a narrative that this wasn't a terrorism attack, and that was, in my opinion, for political purposes. Give the moderator an assist for deciding to fact check at that point (I'm not sure why she chose this one argument to do that). Romney stumbled as well - he has to be careful in asking questions that he may not get an answer that he's expecting, he also didn't come across as knowing the issue as clearly as he should have. The good news for Romney is now perhaps Libya gets more coverage in the next day or so as the media actually talks about who is right. Next week's foreign policy debate should be interesting - will Obama continue to argue that killing Bin Laden is a foreign policy strategy? What differences are there really outside of Libya? The Iran conversation will likely be small differences.
I thought Romney nailed Obama on the pension question. Obama didn't want to answer and wanted to to move on.
It was clear that Obama was trained to say that Romney was not telling the truth as many times as he could.
Economically, neither candidate has a plan that they are wiling to provide specifics. Scary.
RBM
Footballguy
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I thought Obama won the debate and the Libya issue is stupid, but I have to admit I'm kind of annoyed at Crowley actually getting this wrong on live television. She now concedes that Romney was actually correct. Better late than never I guess, but this continues an annoying theme of "fact checks" that either themselves get the facts wrong or can't differentiate between a fact an opinion.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
So the conservaherd is saying it was a tie and the moderator sucked. Polls must show Obama with a win?
Sam Quentin
Footballguy
then he basically pulled a clintonLie and parsed his words into an revisionist interpretation. It was a low and desperate move. Remember, part of the reason Bush got elected wasn't necessarily based on a rejection of Clinton's policies, but a rejection of Clinton the person. There were other factors, to be sure, but Clinton's clever deceptions and the degree to which they could associate that with Gore did play a part.
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
So let me get this straight....
The right was willing to vote for a guy who let 9/11 happen, lead us into a completely unnecessary war and dragged it through a second term.
Any criticism of him was met with "Don't you support the troops".
And at the risk of callous minimalism, the President who saw OBL killed under his watch is the foreign policy failure because the inmates overran the asylum in a moment you shouldn't expect to ever see repeated?
Gotcha.
The right was willing to vote for a guy who let 9/11 happen, lead us into a completely unnecessary war and dragged it through a second term.
Any criticism of him was met with "Don't you support the troops".
And at the risk of callous minimalism, the President who saw OBL killed under his watch is the foreign policy failure because the inmates overran the asylum in a moment you shouldn't expect to ever see repeated?
Gotcha.
HellToupee
Footballguy
I think Krauthammer summed it up pretty well
NCCommish
Footballguy
If the conservatives want to play who lies more I don't think they'll like the score.
HellToupee
Footballguy
this is schtick , right? You can't possibly be this nutty
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Sam Quentin
Footballguy
..and knowing that terrorists have attacked the US, why spend two week pseudo apologiziing for a youtube video. Hey they attacked us and killed our people in a premeditated attack, but let's get right out in front of that unrelated YouTube video and say how we don't like peopel who denigrate religion (but thanks for the million bucks Mr Maher).As people try to make sense of this, it only keeps getting worse for the country and the current administartion.
DoubleG
Footballguy
As someone who is clearly in the middle class (household income right around $100,000) who has investments and pays capital gains taxes - I disagree. In fact this was one of the points that my wife and I sit up and listen more closely to what Romney was saying on that point.
randall146
Footballguy
I came for the ZINGERS!
but I stayed for the PARSING!
Yay politics
but I stayed for the PARSING!
Yay politics
The Commish
Footballguy
Followed up by Romney's giving credit to Obama for bringing energy jobs back and giving him credit for the stock market....I didn't watch the last thirty minutes and don't really buy into the win/loss thing but if Fox is calling it a tie, Romney must have never been able to get out of his own way....again.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Rick James
Footballguy
regular, middle-class people have money in the stock market as well.
SHIZNITTTT
Footballguy
Shortly after the debate, CNN announced that its polling of 457 registered voters who watched the debate showed that 46 percent thought Obama won the debate and 39 percent thought Romney won.
LANDSLIDE.
ROMNEY =
LANDSLIDE.
ROMNEY =
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DoubleG
Footballguy
I think you might have misunderstood who was having this issue in the first debate.
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
This is good stuff...
Romney:
I think you know better. I think you know that these last four years haven't been so good as the president just described and that you don't feel like you’re confident that the next four years are going to be much better either. I can tell you that if you were to elect President Obama, you know what you're going to get. You're going to get a repeat of the last four years. We just can't afford four more years like the last four years.
He said that by now we'd have unemployment at 5.4 percent. The difference between where it is and 5.4 percent is 9 million Americans without work. I wasn't the one that said 5.4 percent. This was the president's plan. Didn't get there.
He said he would have by now put forward a plan to reform Medicare and Social Security, because he pointed out they're on the road to bankruptcy. He would reform them. He'd get that done. He hasn't even made a proposal on either one.
He said in his first year he'd put out an immigration plan that would deal with our immigration challenges. Didn't even file it.
This is a president who has not been able to do what he said he'd do. He said that he'd cut in half the deficit. He hasn't done that either. In fact, he doubled it. He said that by now middle-income families would have a reduction in their health insurance premiums by $2,500 a year. It's gone up by $2,500 a year. And if Obamacare is passed, or implemented -- it's already been passed -- if it's implemented fully, it'll be another $2,500 on top.
The middle class is getting crushed under the policies of a president who has not understood what it takes to get the economy working again. He keeps saying, "Look, I've created 5 million jobs." That's after losing 5 million jobs. The entire record is such that the unemployment has not been reduced in this country. The unemployment, the number of people who are still looking for work, is still 23 million Americans. There are more people in poverty, one out of six people in poverty.
How about food stamps? When he took office, 32 million people were on food stamps. Today, 47 million people are on food stamps. How about the growth of the economy? It's growing more slowly this year than last year, and more slowly last year than the year before.
The president wants to do well. I understand. But the policies he's put in place from Obamacare to Dodd-Frank to his tax policies to his regulatory policies, these policies combined have not let this economy take off and grow like it could have.
You might say, "Well, you got an example of one that worked better?" Yeah, in the Reagan recession where unemployment hit 10.8 percent, between that period -- the end of that recession and the equivalent of time to today, Ronald Reagan's recovery created twice as many jobs as this president's recovery. Five million jobs doesn't even keep up with our population growth. And the only reason the unemployment rate seems a little lower today is because of all the people that have dropped out of the workforce.
The president has tried, but his policies haven't worked. He's great as a -- as a -- as a speaker and describing his plans and his vision. That's wonderful, except we have a record to look at. And that record shows he just hasn't been able to cut the deficit, to put in place reforms for Medicare and Social Security to preserve them, to get us the rising incomes we need. Median income is down $4,300 a family and 23 million Americans out of work. That's what this election is about. It's about who can get the middle class in this country a bright and prosperous future and assure our kids the kind of hope and optimism they deserve."
Romney:
I think you know better. I think you know that these last four years haven't been so good as the president just described and that you don't feel like you’re confident that the next four years are going to be much better either. I can tell you that if you were to elect President Obama, you know what you're going to get. You're going to get a repeat of the last four years. We just can't afford four more years like the last four years.
He said that by now we'd have unemployment at 5.4 percent. The difference between where it is and 5.4 percent is 9 million Americans without work. I wasn't the one that said 5.4 percent. This was the president's plan. Didn't get there.
He said he would have by now put forward a plan to reform Medicare and Social Security, because he pointed out they're on the road to bankruptcy. He would reform them. He'd get that done. He hasn't even made a proposal on either one.
He said in his first year he'd put out an immigration plan that would deal with our immigration challenges. Didn't even file it.
This is a president who has not been able to do what he said he'd do. He said that he'd cut in half the deficit. He hasn't done that either. In fact, he doubled it. He said that by now middle-income families would have a reduction in their health insurance premiums by $2,500 a year. It's gone up by $2,500 a year. And if Obamacare is passed, or implemented -- it's already been passed -- if it's implemented fully, it'll be another $2,500 on top.
The middle class is getting crushed under the policies of a president who has not understood what it takes to get the economy working again. He keeps saying, "Look, I've created 5 million jobs." That's after losing 5 million jobs. The entire record is such that the unemployment has not been reduced in this country. The unemployment, the number of people who are still looking for work, is still 23 million Americans. There are more people in poverty, one out of six people in poverty.
How about food stamps? When he took office, 32 million people were on food stamps. Today, 47 million people are on food stamps. How about the growth of the economy? It's growing more slowly this year than last year, and more slowly last year than the year before.
The president wants to do well. I understand. But the policies he's put in place from Obamacare to Dodd-Frank to his tax policies to his regulatory policies, these policies combined have not let this economy take off and grow like it could have.
You might say, "Well, you got an example of one that worked better?" Yeah, in the Reagan recession where unemployment hit 10.8 percent, between that period -- the end of that recession and the equivalent of time to today, Ronald Reagan's recovery created twice as many jobs as this president's recovery. Five million jobs doesn't even keep up with our population growth. And the only reason the unemployment rate seems a little lower today is because of all the people that have dropped out of the workforce.
The president has tried, but his policies haven't worked. He's great as a -- as a -- as a speaker and describing his plans and his vision. That's wonderful, except we have a record to look at. And that record shows he just hasn't been able to cut the deficit, to put in place reforms for Medicare and Social Security to preserve them, to get us the rising incomes we need. Median income is down $4,300 a family and 23 million Americans out of work. That's what this election is about. It's about who can get the middle class in this country a bright and prosperous future and assure our kids the kind of hope and optimism they deserve."
Sam Quentin
Footballguy
myopic IMO. I think the President's flabbergasting statement about labelling the attack in BenGhazi "terror" played as a "gotcha" in real time, will resonate against him in the longer term, as people have time to process it.
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The Commish
Footballguy
The fact that he managed to stay out of his own way in one debate doesn't negate the rest of the campaign where he can't. If anything, it just shows the last debate was an aberration. What I saw on stage last night for the time I watched is what I expected in debate one and it appears he didn't do anything to remedy that in the last thirty minutes after I stopped watching.I think you might have misunderstood who was having this issue in the first debate.
johnnycakes
Footballguy
While searching for female candidates, I'm still trying to picture Romney telling some staffer, "Bring me the Joy Book".
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Romney's always been a good debater. He's not very good on the campaign trail, but he's at home in these kinds of settings.The fact that he managed to stay out of his own way in one debate doesn't negate the rest of the campaign where he can't. If anything, it just shows the last debate was an aberration. What I saw on stage last night for the time I watched is what I expected in debate one and it appears he didn't do anything to remedy that in the last thirty minutes after I stopped watching.I think you might have misunderstood who was having this issue in the first debate.
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
Obama:
"Well, think about what the governor -- think about what the governor just said. He said when I took office, the price of gasoline was $1.80, $1.86. Why is that? Because the economy was on the verge of collapse, because we were about to go through the worst recession since the Great Depression, as a consequence of some of the same policies that Governor Romney's now promoting. So, it's conceivable that Governor Romney could bring down gas prices because with his policies, we might be back in that same mess."
Reminds me of him explaining Clinton era tax rates bringing back Clinton era prosperity..
Does this man know how this thing works? Doesn't seem like it..
"Well, think about what the governor -- think about what the governor just said. He said when I took office, the price of gasoline was $1.80, $1.86. Why is that? Because the economy was on the verge of collapse, because we were about to go through the worst recession since the Great Depression, as a consequence of some of the same policies that Governor Romney's now promoting. So, it's conceivable that Governor Romney could bring down gas prices because with his policies, we might be back in that same mess."
Reminds me of him explaining Clinton era tax rates bringing back Clinton era prosperity..
Does this man know how this thing works? Doesn't seem like it..
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SHIZNITTTT
Footballguy
I disagree. I think most people don't see the BenGhazi attack as a political event.
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
Yea, I didn't get that one.. The moderator chimed in and went along with the deception.. Basically, the President apologized to the Muslim community on our behalf for a Youtube video in response to our diplomat getting tortured and killed.. Nice...Muslim leaders make no apologies to us right?
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Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Other than that, how is life in the echo chamber these days?
