Presidential Debate Thread - Obama vs. Romney (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

Oh Jebus. Forget it. Nevermind. Move on. My point - originally, ...like 4 pages ago... was that the Obama administration took legal action against a soveriegn state. You decided to take issue with the flippant "on behalf of Mexico" part - which was really just a comment on the legal actions all coming at the same time and hinting that Obama was doing it to curry favor with Mexico - instead of the primary point which was the legal action against a soveriegn state.

It's like I had said "The suspect murdered the victim by stabbing him 7 times with a kitchen knife" - and you are arguing whether it was 6 or 7 times and whether it was techinically a kitchen knife or a utility knife. The fact remains that the victim is still dead and the suspect is still guilty of murder.

Arizona had no right to do what they did. But beyond that, it was such a disgusting, shameful, and downright racist law that emotionally I support the administration for attacking it by any means necessary. Jan Brewer and the government of Arizona proved themselves incapable of rational decision-making.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

DoubleG, oof dude. You seem to be having real problems with both explaining your points and understanding other people's points. Someone earlier said it well - just skimming through your posts one might get the impression that you're several notches above the BYD, Jim11, meatwad types, but you've been putting on a pretty embarrassing display this past week or two. You may actually have a handful of good points but god knows what they are.

 

[The Commish]

Simple....in some minds ALL GOVERNMENT = One dude

Oh stop - you didn't even read any of the links did you? Even Tobias acknowledges that Obama was involved in the decision to file suit against Arizona.Be careful Commish - your presumptions are showing.

Of course I didn't. I'm not part of your stupid little semantic slap fight. I know that the DOJ was the major player involved from the US and I know that Obama didn't bring the litigation himself, much less on behalf of Mexico. There's plenty to be upset with Obama over. This "discussion" is just stupid.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Oh Jebus. Forget it. Nevermind. Move on. My point - originally, ...like 4 pages ago... was that the Obama administration took legal action against a soveriegn state. You decided to take issue with the flippant "on behalf of Mexico" part - which was really just a comment on the legal actions all coming at the same time and hinting that Obama was doing it to curry favor with Mexico - instead of the primary point which was the legal action against a soveriegn state.

It's like I had said "The suspect murdered the victim by stabbing him 7 times with a kitchen knife" - and you are arguing whether it was 6 or 7 times and whether it was techinically a kitchen knife or a utility knife. The fact remains that the victim is still dead and the suspect is still guilty of murder.

That was NOT your point. Your entire diatribe was about foreign affairs. What the heck would a president/DOJ suing a state (something that happens all the time, by the way 1 2 3) have to do with foreign affairs? It doesn't, and that's why it's incredibly obvious that it wasn't your point. You even tried to defend the whole Mexico thing for a while., and now you dismiss it as "flippant" because you've been busted and it's clear that what you said was wrong.It's hilarious that you are now trying to pretend that a (100% false) point you made in a diatribe about foreign affairs about the government suing on behalf of Mexico was actually that you don't like the feds suing states (even though it happens all the time).

Nice analogy, though. Would be apt if you weren't completely full of #### here.

 

[Joe T]

The key question, regarding gas prices, is whether or not a Romney presidency will result in lower gas prices. I have heard no evidence to suggest that it will, besides some sort of vague "if we drill more, that will lower the price!" which, given the nature of the international marketplace, is not convincing.Thus, just as with foreign affairs, I don't regard gas prices as a reason to vote either for or against Romney or for or against Obama. The differences between the two men on these issues are not substantial.

How do you feel about energy independence by 2020?

How is one in a global market "independent" from a global market commodity? There's no such thing. Even if we were to become the world leader in energy, the global economy would still impact us when it comes to pricing.

You think OPEC will sit by idly.

If they throttle production, they'll be cutting their own throats.

And ours...that's how global markets work and that's my point. I don't really know many educated people that buy into the term "energy independent"

Brazil called and said they disagree. But they are all uneducated I guess.

 

[DoubleG]

Oh Jebus. Forget it. Nevermind. Move on. My point - originally, ...like 4 pages ago... was that the Obama administration took legal action against a soveriegn state. You decided to take issue with the flippant "on behalf of Mexico" part - which was really just a comment on the legal actions all coming at the same time and hinting that Obama was doing it to curry favor with Mexico - instead of the primary point which was the legal action against a soveriegn state.

It's like I had said "The suspect murdered the victim by stabbing him 7 times with a kitchen knife" - and you are arguing whether it was 6 or 7 times and whether it was techinically a kitchen knife or a utility knife. The fact remains that the victim is still dead and the suspect is still guilty of murder.

Arizona had no right to do what they did. But beyond that, it was such a disgusting, shameful, and downright racist law that emotionally I support the administration for attacking it by any means necessary. Jan Brewer and the government of Arizona proved themselves incapable of rational decision-making.

That's fine. And you are fully entitled to that opinion - although, to be fair, according to the LA Times article I linked to, only 1 in 3 Americans were in favor of what the article calls "Obama's lawsuit" (there, that caveat should make even TF happy ).

 

[timschochet]

Oh Jebus. Forget it. Nevermind. Move on. My point - originally, ...like 4 pages ago... was that the Obama administration took legal action against a soveriegn state. You decided to take issue with the flippant "on behalf of Mexico" part - which was really just a comment on the legal actions all coming at the same time and hinting that Obama was doing it to curry favor with Mexico - instead of the primary point which was the legal action against a soveriegn state.

It's like I had said "The suspect murdered the victim by stabbing him 7 times with a kitchen knife" - and you are arguing whether it was 6 or 7 times and whether it was techinically a kitchen knife or a utility knife. The fact remains that the victim is still dead and the suspect is still guilty of murder.

Arizona had no right to do what they did. But beyond that, it was such a disgusting, shameful, and downright racist law that emotionally I support the administration for attacking it by any means necessary. Jan Brewer and the government of Arizona proved themselves incapable of rational decision-making.

That's fine. And you are fully entitled to that opinion - although, to be fair, according to the LA Times article I linked to, only 1 in 3 Americans were in favor of what the article calls "Obama's lawsuit" (there, that caveat should make even TF happy ).

Tobias is right though that the entire issue has nothing to do with foreign policy.

 

[The Commish]

The key question, regarding gas prices, is whether or not a Romney presidency will result in lower gas prices. I have heard no evidence to suggest that it will, besides some sort of vague "if we drill more, that will lower the price!" which, given the nature of the international marketplace, is not convincing.Thus, just as with foreign affairs, I don't regard gas prices as a reason to vote either for or against Romney or for or against Obama. The differences between the two men on these issues are not substantial.

How do you feel about energy independence by 2020?

How is one in a global market "independent" from a global market commodity? There's no such thing. Even if we were to become the world leader in energy, the global economy would still impact us when it comes to pricing.

You think OPEC will sit by idly.

If they throttle production, they'll be cutting their own throats.

And ours...that's how global markets work and that's my point. I don't really know many educated people that buy into the term "energy independent"

Brazil called and said they disagree. But they are all uneducated I guess.

Can you see how the Brazil situation just might be a little different from the United States? It's not exactly apples to apples.

 

[squistion]

Oh Jebus. Forget it. Nevermind. Move on. My point - originally, ...like 4 pages ago... was that the Obama administration took legal action against a soveriegn state. You decided to take issue with the flippant "on behalf of Mexico" part - which was really just a comment on the legal actions all coming at the same time and hinting that Obama was doing it to curry favor with Mexico - instead of the primary point which was the legal action against a soveriegn state.

It's like I had said "The suspect murdered the victim by stabbing him 7 times with a kitchen knife" - and you are arguing whether it was 6 or 7 times and whether it was techinically a kitchen knife or a utility knife. The fact remains that the victim is still dead and the suspect is still guilty of murder.

All you said on this subject originally was (and using your exact words):

his successful effort to improve relations with Mexico by suing Arizona on its behalf

For future reference so we don't waste time, how are we to know when you are being "flippant" and instead of your actual words, you are referring to something unstated, such as trying to curry favor with Mexico?

 

[Joe T]

The key question, regarding gas prices, is whether or not a Romney presidency will result in lower gas prices. I have heard no evidence to suggest that it will, besides some sort of vague "if we drill more, that will lower the price!" which, given the nature of the international marketplace, is not convincing.Thus, just as with foreign affairs, I don't regard gas prices as a reason to vote either for or against Romney or for or against Obama. The differences between the two men on these issues are not substantial.

How do you feel about energy independence by 2020?

How is one in a global market "independent" from a global market commodity? There's no such thing. Even if we were to become the world leader in energy, the global economy would still impact us when it comes to pricing.

You think OPEC will sit by idly.

If they throttle production, they'll be cutting their own throats.

And ours...that's how global markets work and that's my point. I don't really know many educated people that buy into the term "energy independent"

Brazil called and said they disagree. But they are all uneducated I guess.

Can you see how the Brazil situation just might be a little different from the United States? It's not exactly apples to apples.

Following your logic, until the US is energy independent, it can't be done by the US because other samples are not apples to apples. Carry on.

 

[Gr00vus]

The key question, regarding gas prices, is whether or not a Romney presidency will result in lower gas prices. I have heard no evidence to suggest that it will, besides some sort of vague "if we drill more, that will lower the price!" which, given the nature of the international marketplace, is not convincing.

Thus, just as with foreign affairs, I don't regard gas prices as a reason to vote either for or against Romney or for or against Obama. The differences between the two men on these issues are not substantial.

How do you feel about energy independence by 2020?

How is one in a global market "independent" from a global market commodity? There's no such thing. Even if we were to become the world leader in energy, the global economy would still impact us when it comes to pricing.

You think OPEC will sit by idly.

If they throttle production, they'll be cutting their own throats.

And ours...that's how global markets work and that's my point. I don't really know many educated people that buy into the term "energy independent"

If you had government owned/run energy production that covered the nation's energy requirements you'd be there. I'm not necessarily advocating it, I'm just saying it's not a complete impossibility conceptually.

Not really. You'd have the potential to close yourself off from the rest of the world, but are we to really believe our government would do that? No, they wouldn't. We will always be part of the global market.

I thought we were talking about the energy market here. If you're energy independent, you don't need to be a buyer in the global energy market - you may or may not be a seller. Granted the cost of energy makes its way into just about any other product you can think of, but that's not really what I was considering when making the above statement.

 

[Sam Quentin]

The key question, regarding gas prices, is whether or not a Romney presidency will result in lower gas prices. I have heard no evidence to suggest that it will, besides some sort of vague "if we drill more, that will lower the price!" which, given the nature of the international marketplace, is not convincing.Thus, just as with foreign affairs, I don't regard gas prices as a reason to vote either for or against Romney or for or against Obama. The differences between the two men on these issues are not substantial.

How do you feel about energy independence by 2020?

I don't understand how we become energy independent without gov't regulation...People talk about it like it's just going to happen if we drill more. We already ship natural gas and oil we drill in the US overseas. Unless that stops and we only sell it to the int'l market when we have a surplus, energy independence won't happen.

It's a multi-pronged approach. Just making some noise on offshore drilling and keystone will put some fear into the commodoties market.

 

[The Commish]

The key question, regarding gas prices, is whether or not a Romney presidency will result in lower gas prices. I have heard no evidence to suggest that it will, besides some sort of vague "if we drill more, that will lower the price!" which, given the nature of the international marketplace, is not convincing.Thus, just as with foreign affairs, I don't regard gas prices as a reason to vote either for or against Romney or for or against Obama. The differences between the two men on these issues are not substantial.

How do you feel about energy independence by 2020?

How is one in a global market "independent" from a global market commodity? There's no such thing. Even if we were to become the world leader in energy, the global economy would still impact us when it comes to pricing.

You think OPEC will sit by idly.

If they throttle production, they'll be cutting their own throats.

And ours...that's how global markets work and that's my point. I don't really know many educated people that buy into the term "energy independent"

Brazil called and said they disagree. But they are all uneducated I guess.

Can you see how the Brazil situation just might be a little different from the United States? It's not exactly apples to apples.

Following your logic, until the US is energy independent, it can't be done by the US because other samples are not apples to apples. Carry on.

A simple "no" would suffice. No need to display willful ignorance.

 

[timschochet]

Here are the questions I would ask both candidates:

1. Both of you have stated that you will not allow Iran to obtain nuclear weapons. What specific actions would you take to prevent this?

2. Under what specific conditions would we remove our forces from Afghanistan, and how do you propose to achieve these conditions?

3. Both of you have described the rebels fighting against the government of Syria as "freedom fighters". Yet, reportedly they are mostly Islamists who seek to impose Sharia law by force upon the population of Syria. How do you reconcile this difference? And how should we deal with Egypt, currently governed by members of the Muslim Brotherhood?

4. How do you propose dealing with our trade imbalance with China, without threatening free trade?

5. Should we open up trade with Cuba? If not, why not?

6. Should we continue to extend NATO to all the countries surrounding Russia, and supply those countries with strategic defense weapons as requested?

7. How do you propose dealing with rising unemployment and the increasing radicalization of Mexican politics?

8. Would you consider helping to bail out the Euro if the alternative is a threatened world-wide depression?

I don't expect most of these questions to be asked. Instead, I anticipate dumb questions about Libyan security and fighting al-Qaeda. But one can hope.

 

[Joe T]

The key question, regarding gas prices, is whether or not a Romney presidency will result in lower gas prices. I have heard no evidence to suggest that it will, besides some sort of vague "if we drill more, that will lower the price!" which, given the nature of the international marketplace, is not convincing.Thus, just as with foreign affairs, I don't regard gas prices as a reason to vote either for or against Romney or for or against Obama. The differences between the two men on these issues are not substantial.

How do you feel about energy independence by 2020?

How is one in a global market "independent" from a global market commodity? There's no such thing. Even if we were to become the world leader in energy, the global economy would still impact us when it comes to pricing.

You think OPEC will sit by idly.

If they throttle production, they'll be cutting their own throats.

And ours...that's how global markets work and that's my point. I don't really know many educated people that buy into the term "energy independent"

Brazil called and said they disagree. But they are all uneducated I guess.

Can you see how the Brazil situation just might be a little different from the United States? It's not exactly apples to apples.

Following your logic, until the US is energy independent, it can't be done by the US because other samples are not apples to apples. Carry on.

A simple "no" would suffice. No need to display willful ignorance.

You said no one that's educated believes energy independence but the 5th largest country in the world is already there. Who is displaying willful ignorance?

 

[The Commish]

The key question, regarding gas prices, is whether or not a Romney presidency will result in lower gas prices. I have heard no evidence to suggest that it will, besides some sort of vague "if we drill more, that will lower the price!" which, given the nature of the international marketplace, is not convincing.

Thus, just as with foreign affairs, I don't regard gas prices as a reason to vote either for or against Romney or for or against Obama. The differences between the two men on these issues are not substantial.

How do you feel about energy independence by 2020?

How is one in a global market "independent" from a global market commodity? There's no such thing. Even if we were to become the world leader in energy, the global economy would still impact us when it comes to pricing.

You think OPEC will sit by idly.

If they throttle production, they'll be cutting their own throats.

And ours...that's how global markets work and that's my point. I don't really know many educated people that buy into the term "energy independent"

If you had government owned/run energy production that covered the nation's energy requirements you'd be there. I'm not necessarily advocating it, I'm just saying it's not a complete impossibility conceptually.

Not really. You'd have the potential to close yourself off from the rest of the world, but are we to really believe our government would do that? No, they wouldn't. We will always be part of the global market.

I thought we were talking about the energy market here. If you're energy independent, you don't need to be a buyer in the global energy market - you may or may not be a seller. Granted the cost of energy makes its way into just about any other product you can think of, but that's not really what I was considering when making the above statement.

We are talking about the energy market here. Do you think the US would limit their customers to the $300 million only? That's leaving a potential 6.7 billion potential customers out of the equation. Also, do you believe the US would somehow want to miss out on the booming global commodities market?

 

[The Commish]

You said no one that's educated believes energy independence but the 5th largest country in the world is already there. Who is displaying willful ignorance?

Let's please not jump off subject. I know you like to do that, but I asked you if you could see the differences between why Brazil can do this vs the US and you gave me some smartass answer that didn't answer my question. I can only assume that you either didn't know the answer or didn't want to acknowledge the answer because you didn't answer.I stand by my comment though I see I need to clarify I was talking about the US becoming energy independent. I just don't see the US becoming energy independent. There's too much money to be made in the global market. I'm not the only one that thinks this either.

 

[matuski]

I'm going to be at a political bar tonight for the debates.

I need some good schtick to get a building full of BYD/Double G/jonmx types frothing at the mouth.

I'm trying to find an I heart Obama tshirt, but I need some good bait to throw out there.

I haven't watched either debate, I'm not voting for either candidate, and have all but abstained from the political threads here lately. Somebody clue me in on the right wing crazy hot buttons right now.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Best and worst gas prices in charlotte area

Cheapest price inside of Charlotte Meck is $3.57 highest is $3.87 Typical rate is around $3.75 as I drive..

Also, I'm usually buying Exxon gas. My company gas account is with Exxon.. Which is a little higher..

Company gas account? If your company pays for or reimburses your gas, why are you counting that as a personal expense?And if the gas expense is your personal expense, why would you buy gas at a more expensive station? Moreover, if gas was such a significant expense for my household, and my job required me to drive around all day anyway, I'd know where all the cheapest stations were and make an effort to fill up at those locations. You complain that Obama isn't doing enough with gas prices, but you aren't even making an effort to reduce fuel expenses for your own household, filling up whenever and wherever.

Plenty of apps for a smartphone to find where the cheapest gas is, and if I drive a guzzler, I have no room to complain about gas prices.

So I guess I should just have a gas account for every station in town so when this phone app tells me the cheapest gas in the area is at some obscure gas station I'll have it covered. So the guys who buy more gas should complain less, yea that makes a lot of sense. Tell you what, you find me a moped that can haul tools, equipment, and materials and we'll talk. Your comment shows you know very little about our industry.

You guys are pretty funny, even if I were to buy gas at the cheapest place in town every time, which is impossible for anyoner in their right mind, I'll still be spending more on gas then most people in my industry spend on mortgage or rent.

If your gas purchases are business expenditures wouldn't they be eligible for a deduction?

Every dime I can attribute as a buisness related expense can be written off. In the case of gasoline, you can either write off you vehicle and transportation expenses, or you can take a milage deduction.

So in fact your gasoline expenses should be reduced significantly, right? I mean it's not fair to say you're paying $3.75 or whatever as if you pay the same price as a family heading to the Outer Banks for the week or something.

Taxes/ tax deductions don't change the cost to me for gas, they change to cost to me for taxes, which is an expense on top of buisness expenses. So, if not for the deduction, gas would cost more than 3.75 based on your arguement. I'd be paying 3.75 plus the tax rate.

 

[squistion]

I'm going to be at a political bar tonight for the debates. I need some good schtick to get a building full of BYD/Double G/jonmx types frothing at the mouth.I'm trying to find an I heart Obama tshirt, but I need some good bait to throw out there. I haven't watched either debate, I'm not voting for either candidate, and have all but abstained from the political threads here lately. Somebody clue me in on the right wing crazy hot buttons right now.

If you had a little more time to prepare you could have printed up some fake food stamps and then give it to them saying, "A gift to you from the Obama Re-election Committee," (although they might actually find that funny).

 

[Gr00vus]

The key question, regarding gas prices, is whether or not a Romney presidency will result in lower gas prices. I have heard no evidence to suggest that it will, besides some sort of vague "if we drill more, that will lower the price!" which, given the nature of the international marketplace, is not convincing.

Thus, just as with foreign affairs, I don't regard gas prices as a reason to vote either for or against Romney or for or against Obama. The differences between the two men on these issues are not substantial.

How do you feel about energy independence by 2020?

How is one in a global market "independent" from a global market commodity? There's no such thing. Even if we were to become the world leader in energy, the global economy would still impact us when it comes to pricing.

You think OPEC will sit by idly.

If they throttle production, they'll be cutting their own throats.

And ours...that's how global markets work and that's my point. I don't really know many educated people that buy into the term "energy independent"

If you had government owned/run energy production that covered the nation's energy requirements you'd be there. I'm not necessarily advocating it, I'm just saying it's not a complete impossibility conceptually.

Not really. You'd have the potential to close yourself off from the rest of the world, but are we to really believe our government would do that? No, they wouldn't. We will always be part of the global market.

I thought we were talking about the energy market here. If you're energy independent, you don't need to be a buyer in the global energy market - you may or may not be a seller. Granted the cost of energy makes its way into just about any other product you can think of, but that's not really what I was considering when making the above statement.

We are talking about the energy market here. Do you think the US would limit their customers to the $300 million only? That's leaving a potential 6.7 billion potential customers out of the equation. Also, do you believe the US would somehow want to miss out on the booming global commodities market?

I'm not sure what you mean by limiting customers to $300 million only. As I said (and have now highlighted for your sake) there's no problem being a seller in the global energy market. When most (including myself) speak of energy independence, we're talking about not needing to import to meet our nation's energy needs. You think that's an impossibility? Perhaps we're just having a semantic misunderstanding.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

I paid $50 per gallon for milk last year when you factor in the income taxes I paid.

 

[The Commish]

I'm going to be at a political bar tonight for the debates.

I need some good schtick to get a building full of BYD/Double G/jonmx types frothing at the mouth.

I'm trying to find an I heart Obama tshirt, but I need some good bait to throw out there.

I haven't watched either debate, I'm not voting for either candidate, and have all but abstained from the political threads here lately. Somebody clue me in on the right wing crazy hot buttons right now.

No you don't....they'll bite if you just throw the hook in...bait's optional.

 

[The Commish]

I'm not sure what you mean by limiting customers to $300 million only. As I said (and have now highlighted for your sake) there's no problem being a seller in the global energy market. When most (including myself) speak of energy independence, we're talking about not needing to import to meet our nation's energy needs. You think that's an impossibility? Perhaps we're just having a semantic misunderstanding.

Apparently. When I talk about energy independence, I'm talking about doing our own thing and having prices driven by our ecosystem. Being completely separate from everyone else.

 

[jon_mx]

I'm going to be at a political bar tonight for the debates. I need some good schtick to get a building full of BYD/Double G/jonmx types frothing at the mouth.I'm trying to find an I heart Obama tshirt, but I need some good bait to throw out there. I haven't watched either debate, I'm not voting for either candidate, and have all but abstained from the political threads here lately. Somebody clue me in on the right wing crazy hot buttons right now.

My guess is you posted more in political threads than I did.

 

[mr roboto]

I'm going to be at a political bar tonight for the debates. I need some good schtick to get a building full of BYD/Double G/jonmx types frothing at the mouth.I'm trying to find an I heart Obama tshirt, but I need some good bait to throw out there. I haven't watched either debate, I'm not voting for either candidate, and have all but abstained from the political threads here lately. Somebody clue me in on the right wing crazy hot buttons right now.

When Obama called Libya an act of terrorDeficitAnything about 'socialism'Business experience/Community organizerAlways Roe v.Wade

 

[Todd Andrews]

I'm going to be at a political bar tonight for the debates.

I need some good schtick to get a building full of BYD/Double G/jonmx types frothing at the mouth.

I'm trying to find an I heart Obama tshirt, but I need some good bait to throw out there.

I haven't watched either debate, I'm not voting for either candidate, and have all but abstained from the political threads here lately. Somebody clue me in on the right wing crazy hot buttons right now.

You definitely need this magic GOP Government Mandated Vage Wand Probe.

 

[matuski]

I'm going to be at a political bar tonight for the debates. I need some good schtick to get a building full of BYD/Double G/jonmx types frothing at the mouth.I'm trying to find an I heart Obama tshirt, but I need some good bait to throw out there. I haven't watched either debate, I'm not voting for either candidate, and have all but abstained from the political threads here lately. Somebody clue me in on the right wing crazy hot buttons right now.

My guess is you posted more in political threads than I did.

Take a count if you care enough to. I stopped caring.. at all. Seriously though, I am out for a laugh tonight and would love any ideas at all, is it as simple to get someone like you on a string in real life as it is on a message board? I doubt it. This bar is called The Angry Elephant...living where I do, I imagine it will be packed with Romney supporters... I'd like to hear some current, relevant talking points you care about. I'm not here to argue them, and I won't be arguing them at the bar... I'll just be poking people.If it gets out of hand I'll go for the 5 foot tall 125 pound college kid.

 

[matuski]

I'm going to be at a political bar tonight for the debates.

I need some good schtick to get a building full of BYD/Double G/jonmx types frothing at the mouth.

I'm trying to find an I heart Obama tshirt, but I need some good bait to throw out there.

I haven't watched either debate, I'm not voting for either candidate, and have all but abstained from the political threads here lately. Somebody clue me in on the right wing crazy hot buttons right now.

You definitely need a magic government mandated GOP vag probe wand.

bad link, good idea.

 

[jon_mx]

I'm going to be at a political bar tonight for the debates. I need some good schtick to get a building full of BYD/Double G/jonmx types frothing at the mouth.I'm trying to find an I heart Obama tshirt, but I need some good bait to throw out there. I haven't watched either debate, I'm not voting for either candidate, and have all but abstained from the political threads here lately. Somebody clue me in on the right wing crazy hot buttons right now.

My guess is you posted more in political threads than I did.

Take a count if you care enough to. I stopped caring.. at all. Seriously though, I am out for a laugh tonight and would love any ideas at all, is it as simple to get someone like you on a string in real life as it is on a message board? I doubt it. This bar is called The Angry Elephant...living where I do, I imagine it will be packed with Romney supporters... I'd like to hear some current, relevant talking points you care about. I'm not here to argue them, and I won't be arguing them at the bar... I'll just be poking people.If it gets out of hand I'll go for the 5 foot tall 125 pound college kid.

I would talk about what a great fiscal conservative Obama and that is why you support him.

 

[3C's]

I'm going to be at a political bar tonight for the debates.

I need some good schtick to get a building full of BYD/Double G/jonmx types frothing at the mouth.

I'm trying to find an I heart Obama tshirt, but I need some good bait to throw out there.

I haven't watched either debate, I'm not voting for either candidate, and have all but abstained from the political threads here lately. Somebody clue me in on the right wing crazy hot buttons right now.

You definitely need a magic government mandated GOP vag probe wand.

bad link, good idea.

at the V word being filtered

 

[Todd Andrews]

I'm going to be at a political bar tonight for the debates.

I need some good schtick to get a building full of BYD/Double G/jonmx types frothing at the mouth.

I'm trying to find an I heart Obama tshirt, but I need some good bait to throw out there.

I haven't watched either debate, I'm not voting for either candidate, and have all but abstained from the political threads here lately. Somebody clue me in on the right wing crazy hot buttons right now.

You definitely need a magic government mandated GOP vag probe wand.

bad link, good idea.

Fixed it, try again in my original post.

 

[matuski]

I'm going to be at a political bar tonight for the debates. I need some good schtick to get a building full of BYD/Double G/jonmx types frothing at the mouth.I'm trying to find an I heart Obama tshirt, but I need some good bait to throw out there. I haven't watched either debate, I'm not voting for either candidate, and have all but abstained from the political threads here lately. Somebody clue me in on the right wing crazy hot buttons right now.

My guess is you posted more in political threads than I did.

Yea, I'm sure I can figure it ala roboto's post.

 

[Ursa M]

Honestly, maybe I do owe you an apology. I assumed you were saying the wrong thing knowingly and thus were lying, but this post of yours- which supports me but you seem to think supports you- kind of makes it seem like you just have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

 

[pantagrapher]

Here's a list of positions Romney will deny having tonight.

 

[urbanhack]

in honor of the debate being on foreign policies my wife has decided to pick up chinese food for dinner. I told her i wouldnt debate that decision and she got the joke.

Do you know P.F. Chang?

yes we do! but we will probably be getting it from happy house. that is our favorite

Whatcha gettin? Little lo mein? Little moo shu?

probably some egg rolls

So you are really eating american?

 

[pantherclub]

$100-$110 to fill up, I fill up 3-4 times a week, multiplied by 4.2, leaves me somewhere between $1,250 and $1,850/month; them we have the wife's 70+ mile work commute /day - $1,200/month seems very reasonable to me.

Holy cow, man. Unless you're in the delivery business or a trucker, that's an insane amount of fuel consumption. My wife and I have two vehicles, and live an hour from anywhere. Yet we don't consume more than 700 gallons of fuel between us in a year. Haven't for the past nine years. And a lot of that is "recreational" too. My wife visiting family, or running around with the kids. I personally consume about 265 gallons of fuel/year. And if I use the middle of your range and assume $4/gallon for gas (round number, to make the math easier), that's 375 gallons/month of fuel consumption...just for you! Excluding your wife, from the sounds of it.

So the earlier question was actually reasonable then: Do you drive a tank?!

Even if I drive my 5.9L 4wd "tank" 100 miles per day I'm not near $1200/month. If we're talking household, sure. I have 6 cars, 4 of which are driven daily.

I drive a 5.9L 4wd, and I'm close to that.. But yes, we were talking about a household, not an individual vehicle. You can't measure what your family spends on food if you only count what you spend on milk..An average of 100 miles a day is probably high if you live in city and have a desk job, but is probably low if you own a service buisness.

- primary vehicle (many variables here, depending on who drives the most, husband or wife, and what each of them drive)

100 miles per day @ 15 miles per gallon @ $4 per gallon = $186.66 per week = $9706.66 per year

- Secondary vehicle

50 miles per day @ 22 miles per gallon @ $4 per gallon = $63.63 per week = $3309.09 per year

- Third vehicle if household includes 1 child of driving age who drives to school/community college/other events.

50 miles per day @ 22 miles per gallon @ $4 per gallon = $63.63 per week = $3309.09 per year

$16,324.84 a year ($1360.30 per month) is a lot of money..

There are many work vehicles in the service industry that get worse than 15 mpg (including my truck). And there are many (most) who drive more than 100 miles per day. Obviously there are also people who can walk to work as well, or use mass transit..

What I'm trying to explain though, these service industry workers/buisness owners are mostly part of the lower middle class and gas prices are killing them. Most of them pay more for gas on a monthly basis then they pay on mortgage/rent.. Gas prices have a huge impact on the middle class

Where in Gods name do you live where your wife and kid both drive 50 miles a day? Jesus Christ dude dont try and take us for fools.

 

[pantherclub]

I'm going to be at a political bar tonight for the debates. I need some good schtick to get a building full of BYD/Double G/jonmx types frothing at the mouth.I'm trying to find an I heart Obama tshirt, but I need some good bait to throw out there. I haven't watched either debate, I'm not voting for either candidate, and have all but abstained from the political threads here lately. Somebody clue me in on the right wing crazy hot buttons right now.

whats a political bar?

 

[Willie Neslon]

in honor of the debate being on foreign policies my wife has decided to pick up chinese food for dinner. I told her i wouldnt debate that decision and she got the joke.

Do you know P.F. Chang?

yes we do! but we will probably be getting it from happy house. that is our favorite

Whatcha gettin? Little lo mein? Little moo shu?

probably some egg rolls

So you are really eating american?

Egg rolls is a chinese appetizer dish.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

When Obama insists that something that's not true is true, he loses his credibility and hurts himself...Finally the blinders and wheels are coming off...

You ever check your head for tumors?

No but thank you for your concern...

A candidate does not have to share my faith, skin color, sing or be hip. He just has to be competent! That's why I support Mitt Romney

No, you support him because of the R next to his name on the ballot.

Take away the R and he's still Money

Which we all know is bad right.. Because someone who has done so well with there own money can't be trusted to manage our money..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

What you'll hear instead are differences that are either absurd (Romney would have provided the Libyan Embassy more security!)

Why is this absurd? The ambassador was practically begging for more security. Are you calling the amabassador absurd to make such a request? Are you saying that following the advice of your lead on the ground is absurd?

It's absurd because:1. I don't know who received that report, and if it ever reached the level of the President or Secretary of State (I strongly doubt it.)2. If it didn't reach the level of the Presidency, that means it was responded to (or in this case, not responded to) by employees of the State Department, the same employees who will be there if Romney gets elected, the same employees who set the policies on all of these security issues.

I believe Hilary Clinton attempted to take the blame on that issue..

 

[The Commish]

$100-$110 to fill up, I fill up 3-4 times a week, multiplied by 4.2, leaves me somewhere between $1,250 and $1,850/month; them we have the wife's 70+ mile work commute /day - $1,200/month seems very reasonable to me.

Holy cow, man. Unless you're in the delivery business or a trucker, that's an insane amount of fuel consumption. My wife and I have two vehicles, and live an hour from anywhere. Yet we don't consume more than 700 gallons of fuel between us in a year. Haven't for the past nine years. And a lot of that is "recreational" too. My wife visiting family, or running around with the kids. I personally consume about 265 gallons of fuel/year. And if I use the middle of your range and assume $4/gallon for gas (round number, to make the math easier), that's 375 gallons/month of fuel consumption...just for you! Excluding your wife, from the sounds of it.

So the earlier question was actually reasonable then: Do you drive a tank?!

Even if I drive my 5.9L 4wd "tank" 100 miles per day I'm not near $1200/month. If we're talking household, sure. I have 6 cars, 4 of which are driven daily.

I drive a 5.9L 4wd, and I'm close to that.. But yes, we were talking about a household, not an individual vehicle. You can't measure what your family spends on food if you only count what you spend on milk..An average of 100 miles a day is probably high if you live in city and have a desk job, but is probably low if you own a service buisness.

- primary vehicle (many variables here, depending on who drives the most, husband or wife, and what each of them drive)

100 miles per day @ 15 miles per gallon @ $4 per gallon = $186.66 per week = $9706.66 per year

- Secondary vehicle

50 miles per day @ 22 miles per gallon @ $4 per gallon = $63.63 per week = $3309.09 per year

- Third vehicle if household includes 1 child of driving age who drives to school/community college/other events.

50 miles per day @ 22 miles per gallon @ $4 per gallon = $63.63 per week = $3309.09 per year

$16,324.84 a year ($1360.30 per month) is a lot of money..

There are many work vehicles in the service industry that get worse than 15 mpg (including my truck). And there are many (most) who drive more than 100 miles per day. Obviously there are also people who can walk to work as well, or use mass transit..

What I'm trying to explain though, these service industry workers/buisness owners are mostly part of the lower middle class and gas prices are killing them. Most of them pay more for gas on a monthly basis then they pay on mortgage/rent.. Gas prices have a huge impact on the middle class

Where in Gods name do you live where your wife and kid both drive 50 miles a day? Jesus Christ dude dont try and take us for fools.

You know...the Charlotte area is REALLY spread out.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

The key question, regarding gas prices, is whether or not a Romney presidency will result in lower gas prices. I have heard no evidence to suggest that it will, besides some sort of vague "if we drill more, that will lower the price!" which, given the nature of the international marketplace, is not convincing.Thus, just as with foreign affairs, I don't regard gas prices as a reason to vote either for or against Romney or for or against Obama. The differences between the two men on these issues are not substantial.

Point is that gas prices are a significant issue for a lot of small buisness' and middle class Americans, and deserves consideration and at least some attempt by the POTUS if indeed he is concerned about helping middle class Americans and small American based buisness'...

 

[Otis]

OH BABY THIS IS IT. THE BIG ONE.

 

[The Commish]

The key question, regarding gas prices, is whether or not a Romney presidency will result in lower gas prices. I have heard no evidence to suggest that it will, besides some sort of vague "if we drill more, that will lower the price!" which, given the nature of the international marketplace, is not convincing.Thus, just as with foreign affairs, I don't regard gas prices as a reason to vote either for or against Romney or for or against Obama. The differences between the two men on these issues are not substantial.

Point is that gas prices are a significant issue for a lot of small buisness' and middle class Americans, and deserves consideration and at least some attempt by the POTUS if indeed he is concerned about helping middle class Americans and small American based buisness'...

I'd rather he focus on the things he has control over or the ability to affect significantly.

 

[dparker713]

Oh Jebus. Forget it. Nevermind. Move on. My point - originally, ...like 4 pages ago... was that the Obama administration took legal action against a soveriegn state. You decided to take issue with the flippant "on behalf of Mexico" part - which was really just a comment on the legal actions all coming at the same time and hinting that Obama was doing it to curry favor with Mexico - instead of the primary point which was the legal action against a soveriegn state.

It's like I had said "The suspect murdered the victim by stabbing him 7 times with a kitchen knife" - and you are arguing whether it was 6 or 7 times and whether it was techinically a kitchen knife or a utility knife. The fact remains that the victim is still dead and the suspect is still guilty of murder.

The Fed suing states is hardly uncommon. It dates back to the Founding Fathers, hence the 11th amendment. Moreover, while states do have sovereignty of a sort, its hardly news that states are subject to the control of the Federal government - we settled that issue during the Civil War.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Obviously someone is not going to drive around town looking for the lowest price. You buy gas where you are, when you need it..

Best and worst gas prices in charlotte area

Cheapest price inside of Charlotte Meck is $3.57 highest is $3.87 Typical rate is around $3.75 as I drive..

Also, I'm usually buying Exxon gas. My company gas account is with Exxon.. Which is a little higher..

Company gas account? If your company pays for or reimburses your gas, why are you counting that as a personal expense?And if the gas expense is your personal expense, why would you buy gas at a more expensive station? Moreover, if gas was such a significant expense for my household, and my job required me to drive around all day anyway, I'd know where all the cheapest stations were and make an effort to fill up at those locations. You complain that Obama isn't doing enough with gas prices, but you aren't even making an effort to reduce fuel expenses for your own household, instead choosing to fill up whenever and wherever.

My company gas account and my personal gas account are one in the same since I own the company and it's an S-corp. And the differnce between gas stations as I've driven around today was in the neighborhood of 6 cent, I'm not going out of my way for a 6 cent per gallon difference. I live and work in the south charlotte area, prices on this side of town on the average are higher it seems, I'm not driving to eastway to get gas.. If I happen to be in an area where gas is cheaper and it looks like I'll need to fill up soon, I'll get gas.

Out of curiosity, why did you get a company gas account with Exxon if it's usually higher in terms of gas prices?

But that really doesn't address the issue. Gas prices are high and make up a large portion of expenses for a guy in my line of buisness.

No argument there. I was merely commenting on an apparent disconnect when someone who complains about gas prices doesn't seem to be interested in doing anything to reduce his household's fuel costs.

We had 3 company gas accounts going into 2008.. The economy got tight and buisness slowed. The credit card companies, in an attempt to limit their exposure started lowering the credit allowances on many of our credit cards. Some closing the accounts all together. Afterwards I was left with 1 gas account. I could probably look into getting more accounts open, but with everything else we have going on it's low on the totem pole as far as priorities go. Gas as a whole is very expensive everywhere, I could save 6 cent per gallon from time to time maybe but I will still be left with the opinion that gas is too expensive..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

You said Obama "sued Arizona on behalf of Mexico." That is 100% wrong. He sued Arizona.

You said Obama made an "effort to improve relations with Mexico by suing Arizona on its behalf." That is 100% false. As I've explained several times now, DOJ sued Arizona.

Emphasis added. I'm sorry, what?

Please stop trying to pretend to be some rational moderate than come into a thread and start throwing around accusations about lying - when you are clearly all over the map with your "facts".

Let's try this:

LA Times

Now, carefully and slowly read the title of the piece and tell me who's immigration lawsuit we are talking about...

Tell you what, I'll help:

Acting through the Justice Department, the Democrat administration seeks an injunction to stop the state law, S.B. 1070, from taking effect on July 29 and allowing Arizona officials to enforce federal laws against illegal immigrants, nearly a half-million of whom are estimated to be in Arizona. The federal suit actually duplicates an earlier one filed by the ACLU and supported by the Mexican government.

Again, emphasis added, to make sure you clearly are seeing the facts here.

Or is the LA Times also too extemist? Oh and I found the article by googling - oddly my google, seems to be much effective than yours at finding things that disagree with your admitted "left-leaning" points.

OK, now I'm just baffled. What you pasted and linked supports what I said. DOJ (DOJ is the Department of Justice, or "the Justice Department") sued Arizona. Mexico supported a similar action. Although the article doesn't say how exactly they did so, we've established that they did so through the filing of an amicus brief. That's exactly what I've said over and over again. I don't see anything in there that's remotely close to anything that could be interpreted as saying the feds sued Arizona "on behalf of Mexico."

Honestly, maybe I do owe you an apology. I assumed you were saying the wrong thing knowingly and thus were lying, but this post of yours- which supports me but you seem to think supports you- kind of makes it seem like you just have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Okay, so let me get this straight. I post several articles that have titles that include "Obama's lawsuit" - "the administration's lawsuit" and even the text of the article that states that the administration, acting through the DOJ filed the lawsuit - and you still refuse to believe that Obama had anything to do with it? Clearly you don't actually believe that as you yourself actually were quoted (first one in this post actually) at least once as saying Obama sued Arizona.No apology necessary. You are correct, neither I, nor the LA Times, nor Reuters, nor Huff have any clue what we are talking about. Clearly, the President had no idea what was going. We all bow to your brilliance and insight.

Just let it go already. Obama was clearly involved in bringing legal action against Arizona along with the legislation filed by Mexico - which is really the entire point of

the discussion. Oh and please, don't accuse me of posting links to "right wing blogs" when you do the same by quoting a blog called "Feathered *******" with brilliant quotes like this about a state Governor - "Brewer -- with her severely limited education and intellect, her accidental governorship, and her cheap political opportunism". K thx.

You and Carolina Hustler are either related or went to school together.

In contrast to you seemingly having very little education whatsoever, I'll take that as a compliment..

 

[pittstownkiller]

Best and worst gas prices in charlotte area

Cheapest price inside of Charlotte Meck is $3.57 highest is $3.87 Typical rate is around $3.75 as I drive..

Also, I'm usually buying Exxon gas. My company gas account is with Exxon.. Which is a little higher..

Company gas account? If your company pays for or reimburses your gas, why are you counting that as a personal expense?And if the gas expense is your personal expense, why would you buy gas at a more expensive station? Moreover, if gas was such a significant expense for my household, and my job required me to drive around all day anyway, I'd know where all the cheapest stations were and make an effort to fill up at those locations. You complain that Obama isn't doing enough with gas prices, but you aren't even making an effort to reduce fuel expenses for your own household, filling up whenever and wherever.

Plenty of apps for a smartphone to find where the cheapest gas is, and if I drive a guzzler, I have no room to complain about gas prices.

Why; does he have to go and buy a $30,000 hybrid vehicle, to have an opinion on fuel prices? Exactly what is the fuel efficient option for a construction vehicle? Remember these are the guys that service your house; after all you didn't build it.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

The key question, regarding gas prices, is whether or not a Romney presidency will result in lower gas prices. I have heard no evidence to suggest that it will, besides some sort of vague "if we drill more, that will lower the price!" which, given the nature of the international marketplace, is not convincing.Thus, just as with foreign affairs, I don't regard gas prices as a reason to vote either for or against Romney or for or against Obama. The differences between the two men on these issues are not substantial.

How do you feel about energy independence by 2020?

How is one in a global market "independent" from a global market commodity? There's no such thing. Even if we were to become the world leader in energy, the global economy would still impact us when it comes to pricing.

You think OPEC will sit by idly.

If they throttle production, they'll be cutting their own throats.

And ours...that's how global markets work and that's my point. I don't really know many educated people that buy into the term "energy independent"

Brazil called and said they disagree. But they are all uneducated I guess.

Can you see how the Brazil situation just might be a little different from the United States? It's not exactly apples to apples.

The Brazil situation at the very least proves it's possible...